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Coaching for Leaders
Help People Generate Solutions, with Nanette Metzger
00:21:22
Dave speaks with Nanette Metzger, an alum of the Coaching for Leaders Academy, on how she helped her team start bringing solutions to new problems. Applications to the Coaching for Leaders Academy will close on March 14, 2025.
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- [00:06]
Dave Stahoviak
Dave Stahoviak here, host of the Coaching for Leaders podcast. We mean so well, almost all of us. We love to jump in and help people a lot and sometimes we get in our own way. So often I hear from leaders that they would love to have a team that brought more solutions than problems. But where do you start on helping a team to do that? The Coaching for Leaders Academy just opened for applications, so today I'm sharing a conversation with one of our academy alums, Nanette Metzger, who worked hard to help her team generate solutions. Here's our chat. I'm speaking today with Nanette Metzger. Nanette is a sales manager in food service. She is also a alum of the Coaching for Leaders Academy. Nanette speaker so glad to have you here, Dave.
- [00:56]
Nanette Metzger
Thank you so much for having me.
- [00:58]
Dave Stahoviak
I've been looking forward to this conversation. We've had so much fun working together and before we get into, like, what we've been doing, perhaps you might share just a little bit about you, your role and just what's, what's keeping you busy as a sales manager.
- [01:13]
Nanette Metzger
Oh, all sorts of things keep managers busy, I think, whether they're the right things or the wrong things or somewhere in between. But my role is I lead a team of 12 people, people that are very tenured in the company I work for. We're responsible to get groceries out to our customers for next day delivery. So there's definitely time pressure and time constraints that come with that. But we're also responsible for growing our book of business and for just overall representing the company that we work for in a bright light and in a bright way. So my day can vary from anything from dealing with regular issues to the futuristic standpoint of trying to develop new relationships, develop new deals, develop new customers, from prospects to customers. So we do, we do a lot in this. And I spend probably more time than I want to behind the wheel of a car driving up and down a highway, in all honesty.
- [02:06]
Dave Stahoviak
Yeah, well, and like so much of your work is logistics and you have, unlike some, there's the working with things that are perishable. Like there's, there's a lot of things that have to happen really quickly. Fast decisions, fast interactions, relationships adds an additional challenge to being a leader.
- [02:25]
Nanette Metzger
It does. And actually to grow on that point too. It makes my role even a little bit more pinched where we need to do the things that will produce results. But me being a manager, me being in leadership, I have the ability to impact my team's lives, whether it's for good or for bad. And the good can be really, really good and the bad can be so bad. And we've all had good and bad bosses. So it just makes. It makes it where conversations carry weight. My tone or what I say, how I. How I handle, how I lead. And then hopefully the whole part of it is to impact the people on my team, to develop different skill sets for themselves, which is different for every person. So each thing has its. It's not unique necessarily to me or my situation, but definitely a part of being in leadership and being a manager.
- [03:16]
Dave Stahoviak
Indeed. Do you recall how you came across the podcast originally?
- [03:20]
Nanette Metzger
I remember the very day I actually, I had no ambitions to go back into leadership and in my career, but I was presented with the opportunity and I was kind of told I was, I guess, volun told that this was happening, that I was going to. My boss had been promoted and he was putting me in his shoes. I would continue to answer to the same person throughout it all. But I remember I thought, I don't. I don't know how to lead these people that have been in this company for 20 years, and I don't know how to. I don't know how to do leadership in this industry. And I was actually standing in front of the mirror and trying to get dressed in the morning and I googled good leadership podcast and you were actually the first one that came up. And I never trust the first results, so I explored a few other ones. I did not like it so much, not as much as I liked yours. And I've been very, very faithful ever since. It's kind of a silly little thing, but I remember the logo popping up and I thought, okay, I'll give it a shot.
- [04:26]
Dave Stahoviak
Oh, wow. Oh, fascinating. Well, thanks, Google for getting us connected originally. I hear you on the first search result, sometimes you're like, I don't know, is that sponsored? Whatever. Yeah, the. At at some point you heard about the academy and you decided to apply and we had a conversation initially. What did you. What got your attention and what did you hope to get from the academy?
- [04:52]
Nanette Metzger
So I am a blank slate to a certain degree and really open to doing all sorts of things. I feel like I've had a lot of experience, but no experience at all. I was looking for something that would first and foremost be outside of my company, and secondarily, I was looking for something that would be casual to a certain degree. I did not want textbooks. I didn't want to be in a classroom. I didn't want those types of things. I needed to Be able to talk about the situations and the relationships that were coming up, up in my day to day and how I was showing up and be honest and be candid about how I was showing up and what was behind it and how to move past that or how to double down and do it better. And so I started reading first about the Academy. I read a lot and I listened a lot. I had appreciated what you guys put into the show, content wise. I appreciated what you guys put into the show, quality of sound and quality of production. And that is what drove me to late at night, one night send in my application and hope to have a time to talk to you. Because I was looking for a peer group, looking for collaboration, looking for real life discussion to better myself professionally and personally.
- [06:10]
Dave Stahoviak
Yeah. And what I'm hearing you really say there is, that is about the practical things, like there's a time and a place for theory and getting the background and kind of doing the leadership 101 and going through a traditional training program. And that wasn't what you were looking for. You were looking for more of like, okay, I've got some of the basics, but now I really want to talk through situations as they come up. I want to get feedback and I want to get an objective feedback from just outside the organization. That, that, that was part of the driver too.
- [06:39]
Nanette Metzger
Oh yes, you hit the nail on the head. You heard everything accurately and that's. That was really, truly what was provided in, in all honesty, objectivity, outside perspective, collaboration and, and real life getting traction on things. It's not just theory, it's taking action.
- [06:57]
Dave Stahoviak
Yeah. Okay, good. Well, that's part of what I wanted to ask you about because when we start the Academy is we go through a very intentional process of all getting to know each other, starting to build trust, thinking about where we want to head through the process, what does our vision look like. And then we ultimately get to a point where we surface three focus areas for each person. Like the three things that I really want to zero in on, I want to get some good traction on. What did you decide to zero in on and actually take on as, as a commitment as we got started.
- [07:28]
Nanette Metzger
So I had three focus areas that were really helpful for me. I still reference them even today, just as a, as a reminder to myself of the areas that provide the most impact to my team. The first one was accountability. The second one was situational learning. And then the third one was my input and organization, having, having better systems in place for the information that have access to. So that when I need to share it. It's quick and readily available. The one area, speaking of commitments, the one commitment that I did, my 60 day commitment that by far was the most, the most productive for myself and I still continue to practice was I wanted to take on the identity of being a listening leader. But being a listening leader meant that I had to shut up and I had to listen.
- [08:20]
Dave Stahoviak
Ah, so many of us want to listen better. We've heard about being more coach like we've heard the episodes on listening Right. In practice though, it's not always the easiest thing to shift on. What did you decide to do and to try as like you got started with a commitment to actually shift.
- [08:39]
Nanette Metzger
It was nice to have a commitment. It was nice to have a daily action that I could control. Right. Something in my life that's not based on somebody else's performance or their behavior, it's all with me. So I made the decision actually it came from listening to you and Bonnie about eight seconds. I think you had shared it in one of our cohort sessions about how it's important that we hold silence for 8 seconds to allow somebody to process what we've said, form their own thoughts and then gain the courage to speak up. So I just began doing that in my day to day conversations can be through all sorts different media. It can be through text message, email, it can be on a zoom call, it can be on a cell phone and it can be in person. And so with the time sensitivity, the nature of the time sensitivity of the job, a lot of the inclination is just I don't have time to listen to the rest of your sentence. I'm going to cut you off and I'm going to solve all your problems for you. And so it was a really big challenge for me to wait until there was eight seconds of silence, which is rare. That means you to listen to somebody's seven paragraph rant. You know, sometimes or sometimes it's just as simple as just a couple more phrases and the sentence is over and then the full eight seconds. And that was very hard for me to do. I found myself pinching my own skin trying not to cut someone off, you know, proverbially biting my own tongue, trying to come back into my own, my own body, feel my toes. All those little psychological tricks to bring myself back present to make sure I wasn't cutting people off. Another, another part that did too, was I just the little trigger that I used for myself to realize that I was starting to cut someone off is remind myself to get back engaged in the conversation remind myself that I'm learning something here. This person has information that I don't have. Maybe we're talking about a topic that I'm well versed in. Maybe I have input on what the next steps are, but they have some type of information that I don't currently have because I don't live in their head. And being patient enough to find those little, those little treasures, those little, those little nuggets, and just stopping myself to try to say, okay, what am I learning? And then waiting for the eight seconds of silence.
- [11:03]
Dave Stahoviak
You know, it's in theory, like, it all makes sense to give people more space to be heard. Like, so often. You and I have both heard complaints from many, many people like, oh, my boss, my customer, whoever, just doesn't ever give me a chance to talk. And actually shifting that behavior, though, as hard as one of the reasons in the academy we get down to like, no, don't try to do this in every interaction. Like once a day, like five minutes, one time, one interaction. And I think you highlighted something that's really important. It's really key. Like as you did this, it's awkward to shift from what you've been doing to this. I remember you telling me it felt awkward as you started, right?
- [11:42]
Nanette Metzger
It felt so awkward. And sometimes people, especially the not in person conversations over the phone or so people would ask me, they'd be like, are you, are you still there? Are you still there? Did I lose you? Are we still connected? And it was really interesting, the uncomfortability that I was feeling, you know, between pinching and taking deep breaths, but also the uncomfortability that other people felt. And it was so simple to negate that and just say, no, I'm just listening. And then be quiet again. And oftentimes the person then would begin talking and they would start listing off what they thought the solutions were or what they thought the next moves were or the next steps. And that, that was so cool because it allowed me to be the lazy manager, to borrow a term. It allowed me to not have to put in the mental work on it and maybe even say just eight words in the entire exchange. Instead of being the problem solver for.
- [12:39]
Dave Stahoviak
Everyone, you're not jumping in and rescuing that as much. They're starting to solve problems themselves. It's fascinating. And I don't remember if you and I talked about this, Nanette, but. But we've had a whole bunch of folks in our academy community over the years who have tried to do something like this of like, okay, I Want to create more space. I want to listen more. And one of the things we often talk about is that if you get a little bit of discomfort and awkwardness from the other party, that obviously that's not the goal, but that's actually an indicator that you're on a good path because it means people are noticing you change your behavior. And you saw that right away. Like, you changed your behavior enough that people were like, wait, are you still listening? Or are you there? Like, you're not saying anything? And obviously you don't want to stay there for a long period of time. But a little bit of that is actually really good because it's sort of like it's resetting people's expectations, especially if they're used to you jumping in and solving problems. Like, all of a sudden they're like, oh, weird. She's not doing that anymore. Like, why? Right. Like, that's actually a good, good reset. Big picture.
- [13:45]
Nanette Metzger
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. When I first walked into the role, I had a couple of new hires on my team, and I noticed that it was constant. They wanted my help or my approval or my suggestions, which is so flattering. And it gives me the opportunity to feel like I am helping. It gives me the opportunity to share my knowledge and be a team player. But I noticed as a result of some of this restructuring, a lot of those people that had a pattern of constant interactions, they've taken ownership over their decisions. It's given them the confidence and them the development in their skills to handle and to tackle things just head on. And it's been so rewarding to observe happen. And it's also been a great reminder to me to keep on the right path, because I think, wow, I've gotten in the way. Way of these people being able to do their best and show up their best. Right. That's been a very, very cool part that's unfolded over the months of acting this way.
- [14:55]
Dave Stahoviak
I'm so glad. And so often it comes from a good place. Like, a lot of us, especially in our academy community, we're the kind of people that like to be helpful, like to jump in and solve problems and support people in lots of ways and. And often I know I've had this discovery. I know you have, Nanette. And a lot of folks in our community have of, like, we're helping in a different way. We're helping in a different way than we've been trained of. We're actually helping less in the moment sometimes, but setting up a dynamic that helps more in the long term for people to begin to take more ownership, to begin to solve some of their own problems, to be able to think more objectively. And then when they come to us, we can be a little bit more coach, like we can have that higher level conversation. And as you've been doing that with your team now for the last six, nine months more consistently, what have you seen?
- [15:48]
Nanette Metzger
Not only are people taking on their own ownership of their daily responsibilities, where they've got confidence to go and face whatever might come at them, which is just, it's so many different things from we talked about perishables and dealing with that, dealing with logistics, dealing with sales as its entirety and dealing with relationships, customers. And we have return, repeat, custom only. So that definitely makes it murkier waters to navigate. And my team, they're navigating them with confidence and with the belief that they're doing the right thing. And that's really special. But then another thing that I've noticed is that whenever they do come to me with something that needs intervention, they're coming with a business case, they're coming with facts, they're coming prepared, which is very, very rare to find somebody who is putting thought into what they're asking. They have some hindsight about how we got here, what led to this, they have a synopsis of our current situation, where we're at and then they've got foresight for here's where I think we could go, here's how I think we could get out of it. And that's really cool to be able to have the opportunity to observe in the people that I deal with daily that just the awe that in a manager role, in a leadership role, there's the ability to influence somebody's life and influence their entire perspective on the world and what they're capable of doing. And I think that some of that has rolled out just from being willing to be quiet and have eight seconds of awkward silence or you know, the whole type of listening. It's really humbling and it is an honor. And thinking that I got in these people's way for a long time is very humbling. But it encourages me me to keep doing the work and keep being quiet.
- [17:45]
Dave Stahoviak
I'm thinking back to where we started, the conversation where you moved into this role. You weren't necessarily looking for it, searching on Google, looking for resources, right? When you think back to your thinking back then and going through this process, going through this experience, you're thinking today, what if anything, have you changed your mind on?
- [18:04]
Nanette Metzger
I think it's a really hard question. And I think that in the past, my perspective was, okay, I need to learn, I need to learn, I need to learn. And typically, whenever we think about learning, we think about learning from books, right? I'm going to read this article, read this book, I'm going to listen to this person lecture, and then I'm going to do, do, do, do, do, and everything's going to be perfect. And that's not the reality. We're all navigating relationships. We're navigating complex human and social interactions. We're navigating creating business and trying to figure out how to make those two very unlike things speak the same language. And one thing I've changed my mind on is that, yes, I need to have theoretical knowledge. Of course, I need to understand the big picture of a situation or understand certain theories behind things. But most importantly, it's having action in my daily life. It's having action in my reality, action in my world, and feedback in my world. Feedback from people who are outside of the situation, feedback from people who are inside the situation. And that's how we learn is situational learning. And so being a part of the academy has been very huge for me in the ability to have those things. The theoretical, yes, but then putting it into practice, sharing my intentions, sharing what's happened, and then receiving feedback on it, it's changed my mind about how I approach a lot of things in my life. Whether it's professional or even just a hobby, it's gaining real life interaction.
- [19:48]
Dave Stahoviak
Nanette, what a joy it is to support you. Thank you for the privilege to do so and thanks so much for sharing your experience with us. I so appreciate.
- [19:57]
Nanette Metzger
Thank you so much for all that you guys do.
- [20:00]
Dave Stahoviak
I noticed that Nanette mentioned a couple of times in this conversation that we often think about learning as classrooms and textbooks and curriculum and papers, and all of those things have their place. But when it comes to practical change, especially with leaders who are in the midst of tons of situations all day long, I actually think the best way we learn is through the challenges that are right in front of us. That's why we don't have a textbook in the academy or any off the shelf case studies. Instead, we rely on an intentional structure that invites our members to share the situations they're facing in the workplace right now and confidentially get the support from other leaders on their next steps. If you're at an inflection point right now and that kind of practical movement is important for you, I've just opened up applications to the coaching for leaders Academy. We're all about growth minded leadership, expert guidance and one goal movement. To apply, visit coaching4leaders.com academy now through Friday, March 14th. Details for everything about the Academy are right on that page. Leadership gets harder at inflection points. If you're ready to get moving together with other leaders and me, I hope you'll apply. Thanks for the privilege to support you. And remember, leaders aren't born, they're made.