A (4:15)

This is one of the most common things that I hear from leaders who are considering our academy is something. There's been some change or something has happened. I've actually gotten several notes just in the last week or two of folks who are considering our academy who have said, I've reached this point in my career where I've done the doing stuff really well. I've done the daily management stuff really well. And I'm realizing that I need to elevate in some way. I need to be a bit more strategic. I need to think about the what's next in the next year, two or three in my role, both for myself and for others. And I need to kind of figure that out. But I'm not really sure where to start because I'm just. I'm really good at the executing part and just getting things done, but I'm not so good at the stopping and thinking and creating margin. And the reason I say all that is because you had that experience coming into this and really intentionally wanted to do that better, right?

B (5:20)

Oh, absolutely. And, you know, it's one of the areas in which I'm continuing to grow and kind of flex or train the muscle of creating that space. I call it space for reflection. You call it creating that margin. And many of us as leaders, we get to a point in our careers because we have been so strategic, we've been so productive. We have delivered, we have executed, we have created amazing results. And we're. We've been rewarded for our productivity and continuing to do, to produce. And we don't often have or we don't often create the space to pause and say, okay, how do I want to move forward intentionally? And for me, it was difficult and it felt even risky to create that space and to just take a moment and maybe, you know, I had to come to terms with the fact that maybe I wouldn't be producing some type of output at the same rate, but taking the space to pause and reflect and chart my course, moving forward with intention. I believe that it was the kind of foundation that allowed me to propel myself to a different dimension. Even they talk about you have to kind of go slow in order to go fast or quickly. And your. Your program provided the space for me to do that at exactly the time when I needed to do that.

A (7:18)

I'm so glad, and you alluded to this a moment ago, that it wasn't necessarily easy. And in fact, I recall one of our early conversations with you and I in the cohort. I remember Rick and Sandy saying a few things of kind of thinking about stopping and what does that really look like over the next six months, a year, year and a half? What does the future look like? Doing the bigger picture, thinking. And I don't know if you said this at the time or I just read this, but I had the feeling like that was kind of uncomfortable and scary and messy and sort of all those things. It wasn't like we just sat down one day and boom, it was there. It was kind of uncomfortable, right?

B (8:03)

Without a doubt, yeah. In that moment and in subsequent moments over. Over time, I remember feeling physical discomfort in pausing. And I like to think of myself as someone who is able to navigate situations of ambiguity, but this time it was, like, related to my. My career.

A (8:32)

Yeah.

B (8:33)

And it was difficult to sit with that ambiguity. And you and the community provided space for me to express that. And you all asked me some incredibly powerful questions that helped me to navigate that time of ambiguity.

A (8:59)

As you did and as you created that space, started to really, intentionally find the margin for thinking and insights and what the future should look like.

B (9:12)

What happened from there, it's pretty incredible. You know, I mentioned that I'm a lifelong learner, and I took a certificate program, I completed a certificate program on the neuroscience of coaching. And. And the science confirms the fact that when we are able to cultivate the conditions for insights, for innovation, for creativity, we become more insightful, we become more innovative, we become more creative. And it's through this intentional, ongoing practice of carving out the time to reflect, to make connections from different experiences that I have in whatever aspect of my life it is, whether it's at work or if it's with my family or if I am practicing a hobby or trying to hone a talent. Right now I'm learning French and really working hard toward fluency. But all of it is connected, right? And I have to pause and just kind of let my mind, let my brain make those connections. And as a result, I've just been able to develop programs, come up with ideas that I hadn't thought of before, and really show up as a leader, a colleague, a professional who contributes creative, innovative, insightful ideas that are really, really beneficial and useful to myself and to the larger community with which I work.

A (11:12)

I'm so glad. I've talked about the distinction on the show before between management and leadership, at least how I think about it. Management answers the question of complexity. Leadership answers the question of change. And most of us, especially earlier in our careers, we spent a lot of time in the management piece, handling the daily complexity of stuff, getting things done, managing tasks, schedules, feedback, all the things that come with that. And for many of us, as our careers progress, we are increasingly asked and expected and also have the opportunity, I think, to do more leadership, which is now, what? Where are we going? Where are we going as a team, as an organization, maybe even an industry, and needing to define and create that a bit. And it's a big shift. They're totally different skill sets. And it starts with creating that margin and that time. And I'm so glad you did that, and now doing that, you're still doing the management pieces also, but you're doing even more of that big picture. What does that future look like?

B (12:21)

Yeah, Dave, as you said that, so many things came to mind, and one of the things that I definitely want to share is that I and a few colleagues created a program at my university where we're sharing foundational coaching skills with leaders, managers. And we're not teaching them how to, or we're not training them to be coaches, but we're sharing and providing space for them to practice some foundational coaching skills that we believe or we know will help them to be better or more effective managers and leaders. And one of the things that they have told us, the people who've been in the inaugural cohorts, is just the incredible value of taking that space for reflection and that they don't often have the chance to do that. And so, you know, you talked about now what and where are we going, Just being able to provide that space for other leaders at my institution to think about the what, you know, and one of the things that I learned, I continually hear your voice in my head, like, let's focus on the what before the how. And many of us want to jump to the how, because like you said in management, we're focused on getting things done, but really leaning into the value of taking the time to figure out what is the what.

A (14:08)

And it's not easy. And part of what makes it easier is community and feedback and support. And you highlighted the proverb, the biblical proverb for me in the past of iron sharpens iron. And that was a bit of your experience in this process of getting the tough questions and the community aspect of it, of helping you to refine what you were thinking and doing.

B (14:33)

Oh, yes, Dave, I'm smiling because every time I use that quote, iron sharpens iron, there's a power to it that, that's layered. Right. And the group that you crafted, the group that I was in, you know, incredibly talented leaders in a wide range of industries at different stages of our lives, different, you know, ages, different stages, different roles, different challenges. But each of us came with a laser sharp focus that we were able in some area that we were able to share with each other. And it was that regular kind of friction, a good friction right where we were pushing each other a little bit further each time in a supportive environment, but helping each other reach a level of clarity and direction and that we maybe wouldn't have been able to reach on our own, and we certainly wouldn't have been able to reach without that very specific combination of people. It's like alchemy or maybe a little bit of magic in that iron, sharpening iron.

A (16:07)

You know, I often ask people what they've changed their minds on going through this experience, taking more time for the margin, the leadership aspects. What, if anything, through this process have you changed your mind on?

B (16:20)

You know, I've come to realize that I'm open to the universe and there, there's some woo in there. Right. But I used to believe that in order to make progress, I kind of needed to know exactly where I was going. And through this experience, I mean, one of my commitments was I move forward.

A (16:50)

Yes.

B (16:51)

So I'm not kind of lost, kind of roaming around with no direction. But even without knowing exactly where the endpoint is going to be or where that destination is going to be, through my constant development and preparation, at some point the universe is going to reveal that destination to me and I'm going to be ready for it because of all of the skills that I'm picking up, all of the tools that I have in my toolkit and all of the practice that I did with the group, as well as that I continue to do on my own. And so again, I don't want to give off the impression that there's this lack of direction, but the. The level of precision that I used to think was necessary, I've changed my mind on that.

A (17:59)

As you know, we talk a lot about movement in the academy, and there's something powerful of just getting moving with intention, but also just starting. Because sometimes we never start. We think through things. We overanalyze them, all of us. Me, too. And when you start, think about the leading indicators, the beginning, like starting to take action. It's really amazing what shows up and what a joy it's been to work with you and support you, Tracy. And seeing how you have just taken that faithful step of starting, beginning, trying something new, moving to that uncomfortable zone, and as a result, emerging so much not only for your own career, but but also for so many others. And the programs and the support and the coaching you're doing yourself for others in your organization now, it's been so exciting to see. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us.

B (18:45)

Oh, thank you. And I. And am I able to give a little shout out to thank Rick and Irma and Raj and Shandy, of course, for just creating that space in which we were able to hold and support each other. I'm eternally grateful to each of you.

A (19:06)

As am I. I love our conversations. And it's so, like so many things, this. It's not easy, but it's easier with community. And when we have people supporting us. And thanks to all of them for being a big part of this. We have this odd norm in a lot of organizations, at least here in Western culture, that you're not, quote, unquote, working if you're not in meetings or responding to messages or talking with people or doing customer or donor visits, whatever that whirlwind happens to look like on any given day. Those, of course, are all essential practices in most of our roles. Mine, too. And yet leadership calls us to also elevate and answer the question of what the future should look like. That requires all of us to do something most of us don't do very much. Stop. Really, just stop. Think, reflect, plan, dream. When the academy started a decade ago and I asked people to do a bunch of this at the start, I'll admit I was a little concerned that people might push back on spending time doing those things, I found out the opposite was true. Virtually everyone said, hey, I know I should have been doing this for a long time. And I'm so glad that we're doing it now. If you're ready to make space to elevate, the academy might be right. For you. That's because we spend almost the first two of our eight months together assessing where we are, articulating a vision of our leadership over the next two to three years, and defining three key focus areas that are critical to elevate on right now. The Academy is open for applications only through the end of the day on Friday, September 12th. To apply, visit coaching4leaders.com academy. You'll also see a lot more details on that page. Again, coaching4leaders.com academy. If you're at an inflection point right now, I hope you'll consider elevating your leadership with the support of peer leaders and myself. Thanks to Tracy for sharing her story with us, and also to you for listening in.