Podcast Summary: Coaching Real Leaders

Episode: How Leaders Can Spot What’s Really Holding Them Back
Host: Muriel Wilkins (with guests Amy Gallo & Amy Bernstein)
Date: October 13, 2025

Episode Overview

In this special episode, longtime executive coach Muriel Wilkins shares a candid and insightful discussion with Amy Gallo and Amy Bernstein (from HBR’s Women at Work) about the internal beliefs—what Wilkins calls “hidden blockers”—that keep even high-performing leaders from reaching their full potential. Drawing from her new book, Leadership Unblocked, Muriel illustrates how these core beliefs originate, how they show up in daily leadership behavior, and how leaders can begin to shift them for greater effectiveness, fulfillment, and impact.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

What are Hidden Blockers?

• Definition: Hidden blockers are internal beliefs—often subconscious—that shape how leaders act, react, and self-assess.
• Nature: They often masquerade as strengths or habits that previously served us, but now quietly undermine growth or well-being.
• Impact: Hidden blockers commonly result in low morale, stalled advancement, burnout, or poor relationships—issues that might first be blamed on others or “the system.”
• Quote:

  “A hidden blocker is basically a belief. It lives on the inside of you, which is why it's often hidden, because you're not even aware that it's there.”
  (Muriel Wilkins, 04:22)

Leaders’ Personal Blockers: Real Examples

Amy Bernstein: “I Need It Done Now”

• Story: Amy B. described her identity as the ultra-responsive leader—always answering emails or Slack instantly—which eventually led to exhaustion and burnout.
• Learning: She realized she was conflating urgent with important and letting others’ priorities dictate her time.
• Evolution:

  “What I do now... before I even open my inbox or look at my Slack, I start out thinking, what do I need to get done today?... setting priorities and sequencing my own activities.”
  (Amy Bernstein, 11:02)

Muriel Wilkins: Utility of Old Strengths

• Coaching Insight:

  “Are the mantras or beliefs or principles that we live by at certain points of our career... do they necessarily serve us well when the situation or the context or the goal has changed?”
  (Muriel Wilkins, 08:20–09:52)

Amy Gallo: “I Know I’m Right”

• Story: Amy G. connected the need to be right with early praise for intelligence and right answers—something that served her, until it began making others feel excluded or belittled.
• Humbling Moment:

  “At the end of every sentence there's a silent 'you idiot' that you don't say, but it's in your tone.”
  (Amy Gallo quoting a colleague, 15:02)

The Source & Evolution of Blockers

• Origins: Blockers often get established in environments where behaviors like high-productivity or always-having-the-answer are rewarded (childhood, school, early jobs).

• Changing Contexts: As leaders move to broader roles, these same habits can lose effectiveness and become destructive.

• Reframing for Leadership:

  “If you are now defining your success as ‘I want to make sure we get to the right answer…and I don't want other people to experience being around me as being small or not included…’ then that belief is not supporting that goal.”
  (Muriel Wilkins, 14:08)

• Range, Not Replacement:

  “It's actually not about changing the belief. It's having more range in your beliefs so that they are aligned with what it is that you want.”
  (Muriel Wilkins, 18:29–19:13)

How to Surface & Shift Hidden Blockers

Recognizing Blockers

• Dissonance: Awareness often begins with discomfort—when behaviors or outcomes don’t match one’s values or goals.
• Questions to Ask:
  • “How am I contributing to the issue?”
  • “What would I need to believe in order to reach a new goal?”
  • “Is this blocker still serving me, or is it time for a new guiding principle?”
• Quote:

  “When we can start looking at what our own contributions are, at the very least, we can make some movement there.”
  (Muriel Wilkins, 05:54)

Building New Leadership Habits

• Implicit habits (like always responding instantly) are rooted in beliefs about value and worth.
• Sustainable change requires shifting the belief beneath the habit—not just the behavior itself.

Coaching Others Through Blockers

How to Support Colleagues

• Model Self-Awareness: Others are more accepting of feedback if you demonstrate and share your own growth.
• Ask Permission: Before offering feedback, gauge if the person is open to it.
  • “Do you mind if I share my observations?”
• Focus on Observations: Use non-judgmental language—“Here’s what I’m seeing. I’m curious what’s driving that for you?”
• Assess Readiness: If someone doesn’t feel dissonance, they’re unlikely to change.
• Quote:

  “If we think that we can actually influence them and get them to change the belief…without them wanting to, that's a form of our own control.”
  (Muriel Wilkins, 26:52)

Example: Organizational “Meeting Creep” as a Blocker

• Pattern: Excessive meetings reflect a belief that “everyone needs to be involved” or a lack of trust in delegation.
• Effective Change:
  • Envision less painful alternatives (“What would less meetings look like?”)
  • Surface the belief required for new practice (e.g., collective trust in decision-makers)
• Quote:

  “If a leader is trying to shift [an] organization to behave in a particular way and yet they have not been able to move themselves to that behavior…there's no way they're going to be able to lead others to it.”
  (Muriel Wilkins, 35:45)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The minute that one individual changes the way that they behave or respond, it automatically changes the dynamic.”
  — Muriel Wilkins (06:48)

• “It's not that I don't have the right answers. It's that...I don't leave room for [others]...my confidence takes up so much room that it just hurts the connection.”
  — Amy Gallo (13:46)

• “Part of what needs to happen as we lead is we need to evolve and grow…We need to grow to a place where we're not looking for these external circumstances to feed that…”
  — Muriel Wilkins (22:26)

Key Timestamps by Segment

• 04:22 – What are hidden blockers?
• 05:33 – Why it’s hard to recognize these beliefs in ourselves
• 07:20 – “I need it done now” blocker (Amy B.'s story)
• 10:14 – Internal work and shifting behaviors
• 11:02 – Reframing urgency: Setting priorities
• 12:47 – “I know I’m right” blocker (Amy G.'s story)
• 15:02 – Humbling feedback about unintended impact
• 18:29 – Building awareness; the role of tension/dissonance
• 23:47 – Helping others see their own blockers
• 26:52 – The importance of readiness and permission in feedback
• 31:06 – Diagnosing organizational blockers (meetings)
• 35:03 – Shifting collective mindsets and leadership modeling

Final Takeaways

• Hidden blockers are stories and beliefs rooted in the past that must be made conscious to be changed.
• Leadership growth is not just about acquiring new skills, but about evolving one’s internal operating system.
• Sustainable change requires aligning beliefs with current goals, not just “fixing” behavior on the surface.
• The best leaders cultivate “range” in their beliefs, adapting their approach contextually.
• Both individual and organizational shifts demand surfacing, examining, and (if needed) rewriting the underlying narrative.

This summary captures the essence, flow, and actionable insights of Muriel Wilkins’s discussion with Amy Gallo and Amy Bernstein for any leader seeking to unlock greater impact, by first looking inward.