Podcast Summary: "How Do I Co-Lead with a Challenging Partner?"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Coaching Real Leaders
• Host: Muriel Wilkins, Harvard Business Review
• Episode: How Do I Co-Lead with a Challenging Partner?
• Release Date: June 2, 2025

Introduction to Stefan's Challenge

[00:48] Muriel Wilkins:
Muriel introduces Stefan, a pseudonymous guest, who occupies a leadership role that he finds both engaging and challenging. Stefan reaches out for coaching to navigate the complexities of co-leading a project with an external partner.

Defining Dual Leadership

[02:35] Stefan:
Stefan describes his situation as a "dual leadership challenge," where he and an external agency's product lead share leadership responsibilities. This arrangement has led to "misunderstandings" and a "conflict of authority," questioning "who actually rides the car, right? Who wears pants in this relationship?" (02:35)

[04:10] Muriel Wilkins:
Muriel acknowledges Stefan's framing of the issue under dual leadership, identifying the primary pain points:

1. Conflict of Authority: Unclear leadership hierarchy.
2. Design Tensions: Constant criticism without substantive feedback.
3. Personality Clashes: Different leadership styles—Stefan as an influencer versus his partner's direct approach.

Identifying Pain Points

[04:02] Stefan:
He elaborates on the negative feedback from stakeholders and the frustration of "people never like stuff," leading to challenges in decision making.

[07:03] Muriel Wilkins:
Muriel probes further, rating the severity of these issues as a collective 5. Something like 5.5 out of 10. (06:57)

[08:01] Stefan:
He clarifies that the main issue lies in decision-making responsibilities and accountability, emphasizing that "78 or 85% of decisions are made by him." (11:53)

Analyzing Misalignment

[21:33] Stefan:
Stefan identifies that the misalignment primarily resides in the "how"—the process by which decisions are made—accounting for 70-30% of the issue. (21:33)

[22:37] Muriel Wilkins:
She delves into whether there is a true alignment on the "what"—the project goals—and highlights Stefan’s perception of differing organizational goals: Stefan's team aims to phase out the external partner due to cost concerns, while the partner's organization aims to maintain the relationship.

[23:48] Stefan:
Stefan confirms the misalignment in long-term goals, stating, "their goal is to be as long as possible with us because we support them," versus the need to eliminate them due to costs. (23:48)

Exploring Solutions

[26:28] Stefan:
Muriel identifies trust as the foundation for effective dual leadership. Stefan reflects on trust, noting insights from the book Collaborating with the Enemy, and acknowledges the need to focus on common goals rather than conflict.

[34:23] Stefan:
He admits that his initial approach was reactive—"I did nothing." He recognizes the absence of a structured strategy to define roles and decision rights. (34:23)

[36:18] Muriel Wilkins:
She suggests practical tools like RACI charts (Responsible, Accountable, Consulted, Informed) to clarify decision-making processes and responsibilities. (36:18)

[41:48] Stefan:
Stefan plans to take ownership by introducing new ideas and projects to shift the dynamic from reactive to proactive. He aims to "invent whatever a new idea, like new project, new tool," to demonstrate his contribution beyond mere opinions. (41:48)

[44:22] Stefan:
Muriel encourages Stefan to reconsider his reluctance to initiate a reset conversation with his partner, posing the question: "What would make that comfortable for you?" (44:22)

Insights and Action Steps

[51:08] Stefan:
Through the coaching session, Stefan experiences an "aha moment" by recognizing that collaboration and conflict resolution can coexist, transforming his approach to leadership dynamics. (51:08)

[53:49] Muriel Wilkins:
Muriel emphasizes turning Stefan's newfound awareness into action, advising him to schedule and practice the reset conversation. She highlights that action, combined with awareness, is "unstoppable." (53:49)

Conclusion

[55:04] Stefan:
Stefan reflects on his transformation, feeling both "dumb" for not recognizing these strategies earlier and "grateful" for the clarity and actionable steps provided. He commits to scheduling the reset meeting and practicing the conversation as tangible next steps. (55:04)

[56:58] Muriel Wilkins:
Muriel concludes by reinforcing Stefan’s takeaways:

• Understanding Misalignment: Recognizing where and why the breakdown occurs.
• Taking Responsibility: Owning his part in the dynamic.
• Action Plans: Implementing structured conversations and collaborative tools.

She underscores the importance of personal accountability in leadership, stating, "You can't control the other person, but you can always control how you show up."

[56:58] Final Remarks:
Muriel wraps up the episode by highlighting Stefan's journey from confusion to clarity, emphasizing the significance of owning one's role in co-leading dynamics.

Notable Quotes:

• Stefan at [02:35]:
  "Who actually rides the car, right? Who wears pants in this relationship?"

• Muriel at [53:49]:
  "Awareness plus action is unstoppable."

• Stefan at [55:04]:
  "I feel like a complete dumb idiot. It was actually, these are simple things, but I don't know, not accessible, hidden, whatever."

Key Takeaways:

• Clear Role Definition: Establishing who is responsible and accountable using structured tools like RACI charts.
• Building Trust: Focusing on common goals to create a foundation for collaboration.
• Proactive Communication: Initiating reset conversations to align leadership dynamics.
• Personal Accountability: Recognizing and owning one's contributions to leadership challenges.

Stefan's coaching session serves as a powerful example of how leaders can navigate and resolve the complexities of dual leadership through self-awareness, structured strategies, and proactive communication.