In today’s podcast, Michael Gove is joined by the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government, Steve Reed, at a Spectator event titled ‘Levelling Up vs Pride in Place’, sponsored by Autodesk.

They discuss the evolution of government plans to empower local communities – from Big Society to Levelling Up and now Pride in Place – the challenges they face, the lessons that Labour is trying to learn from Conservative mistakes, and why continuity matters when it comes to governing.

However, their conversation coincides with a time when Labour’s continuity of leadership is under serious threat, given Wes Streeting’s resignation and – live as Michael and Steve were in conversation – the decision by Josh Simons MP to relinquish his duties as the MP for Makerfield so Andy Burnham can begin the process of returning to the Commons. Listen as Steve – one of Keir Starmer’s closest allies and friends – digests the news and responds to those who think there is a ‘caped superhero that’s coming our way who has got all the answers to these problems’.

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