← Coffee N° 5 with Lara Schmoisman
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- [00:00]
Lara Schmoisman
Foreign. This is Coffee Number Five. I'm your host, Lara Schmoisman. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Coffee Number Five. And I have to say, my cup is almost empty, so I. But today I'm ready for a good conversation like always. And you know what I was always thinking before we started podcast, what are we going to be talking about? But today's guest, he told me, you know what, it's not so much about me, it's about the industry. And there is a lot of interesting things happening in the industry. So I said, let's do it. And this is fascinating. I'm. I'm so happy to have you here, Champo. Welcome, welcome.
- [00:47]
Champo
Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.
- [00:50]
Lara Schmoisman
So happy to.
- [00:51]
Champo
Happy to have a conversation.
- [00:52]
Lara Schmoisman
And this is so humble from you being the CEO of Revive and Revive. Sorry.
- [00:59]
Champo
And.
- [01:01]
Lara Schmoisman
And, I mean, you have an incredible journey and tell us a little more about you. We want to get to know you and how you get to be where you are today.
- [01:10]
Champo
Yeah, definitely. Like I said, I don't want this to be all about me, but. But I think let's make it a little bit about. Let's make it. Let's. Yeah, let's. Let's have a little short background. You know, I started Reveal nine years ago, more than nine years ago. And I think, you know, the origin story is pretty interesting because it started from a very personal problem. I moved. I'm Finnish, so I'm native from Finland, and I moved from. From Finland to Chicago for a couple of years, and. And I started having a lot of skin issues. My. I actually wasn't in the industry. I wasn't in beauty before that. Right. I was. I was in retail. I was working with retailers, I was working with brands, but I wasn't in beauty. And. And I started having these skin issues. And my wife was telling me, she was like, you got to go to the dermatologist. You got to get it checked out.
- [01:56]
Lara Schmoisman
And, you know, you have a good wife there.
- [01:58]
Champo
Yeah, very good wife. She's the best. Absolutely. But, you know, I was lazy, as many men are, by the way, for skin care, particularly 10 years ago, I was lazy. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not gonna do that. Eventually I did go. And, you know, I. I had taken pictures of myself. I spoke to the dermatologist. I was like, okay, what could you tell me about me if I wasn't here, if it was just these pictures? And I. And I said, how do people really know which products they should be using. And particularly, how do they know when it comes to digital channels? I mean, I know you can go to an Ulta store, you can go to a Sephora store, you know, and you'll have the beauty advisor there. You know, they know all the products, they can actually give good advice, they can give you recommendations. But what about things that are happening online? What about things that are happening, you know, in mobile apps and so forth? Like, how do people actually find the right products for them and get comfortable with the fact that you know this because again, these purchases in beauty, these are really the most personal products you're ever going to buy. These are really the most personal products you're ever going to buy. And you can have an allergic reaction, you know, you can, something can go wrong. You want to be really sure that the products you're buying are going to be right for you. And that's when we kind of came up with this idea that we can actually use technology and AI in particular to really help the consumer, and I should say even enable brands and retailers to help the consumer buy the right products. And I think that's a very core mission for us even today, that we can leverage technology. And again, we started 10 years ago where I should say AI was not really even a thing. Like, you know, if you would have asked 10 years ago, what is AI? I mean, most brands, most retailers, most consumers.
- [03:51]
Lara Schmoisman
That's what I was thinking. Like that was really early stages of AI. How did you go about that? Because back then you you ambitious the this as AI or only were ambition this about photography and, and some lens on. How did this started? Because did you have the tools of AI or even think where AI will be today?
- [04:15]
Champo
Well, I mean, to be honest, we had no idea how AI as a technology was going to develop. I mean, we did start from AI. We did start, you know, we didn't call it AI back then. We had machine learning, deep learning. You know, these people use these types of, these types of terms. But, but in the end of the day, I mean, it was AI because again, like we were, we started very firmly from skincare and we started, you know, trying to solve the consumer problem of if I'm going to, you know, a Sephora website, or if I'm going to a retailer's website or even a brand's website, you know, a retailer may have 5,000 products, a brand may have a hundred products. How do I know which ones to buy? And I think, you know, we, we started using AI specifically to solve that problem. But again, we had no idea how big the technology was going to be. But I think for us, what I think is really important and what's really important for me is that, yes, we're a technology company and, you know, yes, we're proud to work with more than 120 brands and retailers, you know, across five continents today. But it's really never been about the technology. It's been about what is the challenge that the brand or retailer has, what is the business challenge that they have when it comes to growing their business, serving their customers, you know, helping their customers find and buy the right products. And then let's just figure out, because we are technologists at heart, let's figure out what is the best technology to use to solve that problem. But we start from that. We don't start from the technology. The technology is just an enabler. It's something that we use to help brands and retailers solve actual business problems, which also, I think it's maybe even more revolutionary today than it was 10 years ago, because today it seems like everything's all about the technology. AI this, AI that, AI. AI is everywhere. But I still think that that technology, like AI, I mean, in the end of the day, it's. It's just technology. Right. I mean, unless you really use it for.
- [06:14]
Lara Schmoisman
What I love about your concept is that you say we are resolving a problem that the, the brands had or the retailer had, but at the end of the day, what you were doing is resolving the consumer problem.
- [06:28]
Champo
Yes, yes. Yeah, exactly. And I think, again, that's where we started. You know, I started looking at this as a consumer myself first. Right. And I think, you know, again, it's. And I would say that, you know, when the consumer has a problem like finding the right products, figuring out, you know, what, what they should buy, where they should buy it from, you know, what's right for them, that very, very quickly turns into a problem for the retailer, brand, because it's, you know, it's something that limits their ability to serve the customer. It limits their ability to grow. It limits their ability to, you know, generate revenue and improve their business. And so. But, but you're right. You're absolutely right. That that's where we started from. It's kind of solving that. That issue fundamentally for the consumer.
- [07:14]
Lara Schmoisman
So now let's talk about the. The beauty industry. Because you told me that there are very exciting things going on in the beauty industry, and now I want to know it all.
- [07:23]
Champo
Yeah, definitely. I mean, look, I think, I actually think, you know, this is probably the the most exciting time, at least again, in the 10 years that I've been in this business to really be in beauty, because, you know, I think that, you know the playing field for a lot of brands, a lot of retailers, it's actually more even than it's ever been. So if I kind of look back and I look at beauty, I mean, 10 years ago or 20 years ago, 30 years ago, you know, you have the massive conglomerates, you know, you have the l' Oreals and the Shiseidos of the world. And obviously they're very big. They're still very, very powerful. They have a lot of reach and a lot of great brands. But they were really, really dominant. Like, they were really dominant in the distribution that they had, in how they could reach customers, you know, in the awareness that they could generate from. From. For. For consumers. And I think right now, like, that's fundamentally changed. I think, you know, there are so many great brands out there. Like, so many great brands out there. I mean, you know, every. Every week I sort of read about a new sort of great brand launch and I learn about a new fantastic brand. And I just think it's. It's for the consumer. Like, there's. There's so many choices, right? It's really, you know, it's really probably the best time to kind of be in this industry. And I think the other thing which I think is pretty interesting is again, if I look at, like, pre Covid, you know, I look at the beauty industry, I would say, you know, there's kind of makeup and then there's skincare, and then there's some other stuff. And now it's like everything is kind of interlinked. It's almost like skin health, kind of beauty, wellness. It's in the mind of the consumer. It's all the same. You know, you've got multipurpose products. You know, you've got brands like Ima Raise Beauty, for example. You've got the kind of. The beauty products that you can get kind of edible, for example.
- [09:21]
Lara Schmoisman
But let me ask you a question. Do you think that brands now, because of all these subdivisions and there are so many brands, every brand needs to be a little more specialized or have a better target audience. Because. Yeah, because.
- [09:38]
Champo
Yeah. I mean, I do think that, you know, on one sense, like, it's. It's. It is obviously harder for brands to kind of get through the noise because there's a lot. Right. There's a lot of, you know, brands out there. But I actually think it's a good thing because it really forces all brands to really think about kind of what are they and who are they for and why, like, who do they serve and why, what's their purpose, you know, what is their mission, what are they driven by? So I think it's, you know, they have to be very specific about who they're serving, you know, what are they providing and for whom. But I actually think it's a good thing. It's really a good thing because I, I mean, personally, I think every brand, they need to have a. They should have always had kind of a center focus, like, this is who we are as a brand. This is what we represent, this is who we serve. This is why we exist. And I think.
- [10:35]
Lara Schmoisman
And these are our values. We don't need to align with everyone.
- [10:39]
Champo
Exactly, exactly. So I think the fact that there's just so many alternatives for the consumer, it almost kind of forces brands to kind of come back to their roots and say, okay, this, these are our values. This is who we are for, and this is why.
- [10:53]
Lara Schmoisman
And how do you think that this, the merge, the merging of so many smaller brands and bigger retailers are starting to adopt those brands. How is affecting to larger brands and how they need to reformulate their thought to be, to still be successful? Of course they're going to be successful, but do you think they need to change this?
- [11:15]
Champo
Well, I think that the playbook on how did you build and grow a brand? I think that has to obviously evolve. I think there was a time where you could just get some celebrity endorsements, for example, and you could put a whole bunch of money into marketing and you could generate revenue. And that's probably true still today, but only for a very limited period of time. If you want to be successful for the long term, you know, you have to really be able to connect and build a relationship with the consumer so that the consumers feel like whoever your consumers are, whatever your audience is, they feel like you as a brand are kind of on their side. You're guiding them and helping them, you know, with, you know, better skin, better health, better kind of makeup preferences, whatever it is, you're not just trying to push product on them. You're actually trying to help them buy the things that the consumer wants. And I think I, I think it's, you know, it's an adaptation, particularly for some of the larger brands who've kind of maybe been accustomed to the fact that, you know, they can overspend, they can just, you know, spend whatever and they'll get the customer.
- [12:26]
Lara Schmoisman
You don't think that Sometimes by having so many options and so many variables and many of them those are marketing made as are we over complicating beauty.
- [12:40]
Champo
So I would like to think that we're not right. I would like to think that, I think, but I do think that, you know, you're right. I do think that, you know, well, let's put it this way. First of all, I think the consumer, the beauty consumer is smarter than they've ever been. They're more informed than they ever been. So if you're just creating another brand or creating another product line, putting some marketing spin on it and there's no real kind of hard, you know, solid core to what you are as a brand, it's all just marketing spin. I do think the consumer today is, is too smart. You can't fool the consumer. Like, like they'll try that product once and they'll go ah, okay, but this is kind of not what I'm, I'm looking for. So, so I, I don't think those brands will have staying power. I, I do think that, you know.
- [13:27]
Lara Schmoisman
The brands have to have at the same time we have in all these, I'm, I, I'm a truly believer as a market that brand need to work for a person or a client or, or individual or otherwise. I cannot sell it long term. But at the same time you have all these celebrity endorsed brands that it's all about the celebrity. So how can we justify and it's smarter consumer one we are, we have all the celebrities that is who is behind the product.
- [13:59]
Champo
Well, I think like if you, if you think about kind of the celebrity and there's a lot of these celebrity driven brands, you know, there's a lot of, I mean you've got the Fenty Beauty is by Rihanna, you've got you know, all the Kylie cosmetics and all these things. I think in the end of the day, like if it's really just about the celebrity and not the product working or performing, you know, for the consumer, you can get a boost like you can get a short time boost by a celebrity and the bigger the celebrity, the bigger the boost.
- [14:29]
Lara Schmoisman
One hit wonder.
- [14:30]
Champo
One hit. One hit wonder. Right? And you can always do that. I mean you can always do that. But I think again the consumer is going to find that out like the consumer is going to find that out like if the quality of the product doesn't match up to the kind of promise like again if you have a really big celebrity, like if you, if you've got, I don't know if you've got Taylor Swift and I don't actually, I don't actually know she has a beauty brand already. She may, but, but if you think about Taylor Swift creating a beauty brand, I can guarantee you now you put.
- [15:01]
Lara Schmoisman
It in the, in the universe now.
- [15:04]
Champo
I put it in the universe now. She's going to start a beauty brand if she doesn't one already. But, but I, but I do think like in the end of the day, like, you know, if you want to succeed long term, right, you, you know, you have to have a solid foundation like and a solid purpose and the product needs to, needs to really work and, and you have to find an audience and you have to be able to connect with that audience as well. Like not just push product but actually I would almost say like build a relationship. Like the consumer needs to feel like you as a brand, you actually care about them. Right. So you're not just trying to sell to them.
- [15:37]
Lara Schmoisman
How do you feel? Because I, I notice that there are a lot of brands that they want to. The founder's story. The other ones are the founders values. The others are saying, oh, we have a philanthropy. At the end of the day we are. I think sometimes brands might be losing the focus on what the brand is for and who is our consumer and what we're resolving. Because you're resolving the problem. In addition, as a brand you want to make later on a donation I think is great. But are we confusing the messaging of the brand as okay, this is a brand store, the founder story, this is our philanthropy. I feel like sometimes too much.
- [16:21]
Champo
Yeah, I think you're right. And I think this is, I think that's also part of why it's an exciting time to be in beauty. Because I do think that messaging needs to become really clear for the consumer. I mean, I think a founder and a founder's story and if you have a brand that's really built around the founder, that is a very powerful story to tell. It can be a very powerful, it can be something that consumers, customers relate to. It can be something that kind of brings them together. It can be something that forms a community around your brand. So that can be very powerful. And if you have that like, that's something to focus on like all the, and I, you know, I would rather see brands keep it simple around a core topic like that rather than, you know, convolute that by, I don't know, adding things like philanthropy is great, but you know, you don't have to add that into the same thing like a.
- [17:10]
Lara Schmoisman
Brand that it almost is not making not money, that philanthropy is not gonna help anyone. I prefer that the brand, helping a brand grow a lot. And they say, no, now that you grow, go and give a donation.
- [17:21]
Champo
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And, and I think like, you can layer on a lot of things once you are kind of successful. You can do a lot of things, a lot of positive things, a lot of good in the world. But I think that you're absolutely right, that it is a time. And I think the fact that there are so many brands for consumers, it acts like a forcing function because you have to focus the message. You can't be all over the place, you can't afford it, because the consumers, I'm sorry to say, but the attention span that you get from the consumers, that's getting shorter and shorter. So you got to be very crisp on the message so that, you know, it really clicks.
- [17:58]
Lara Schmoisman
And also, your consumer is everywhere, but at the same time, it's not everywhere. So you need to see where you're going to get the same, the best conversion from your consumer and hone in more content in that space and interaction in that space. Your consumer is. It might be everywhere because everyone has accounts in every platform, but every consumer has a favorite platform to, to buy. And I always say that, and this is a big controversy with a lot of people, but I know I'm right, that you need to be in platforms and marketplaces like Amazon and other places, because if your consumer is a lawyer consumer of Amazon, they're going to be buying there anyway. So they're going to go and see you in social media and then go search for it in Amazon.
- [18:43]
Champo
Yeah, I mean, and I think that, you know, the key there for me is that you have to be where your target audience is. Like, you have to meet them where they are. Like, you can't force them to go to. And the other thing is, like, you know, this is again, a very controversial topic and maybe even some of our customers won't like me saying this. But even if I think about platforms like Tick Tock, like, you know, I think particularly last year I went to a bunch of conferences and everybody's saying, like, TikTok Shop. Tick Tock Shop. Tick Tock Shop. Like, okay, that's great. Like, I'm sure it is a great channel for some brands to generate revenue. There's a lot of influencers there. But if your customers aren't there, like, what are you doing there?
- [19:20]
Lara Schmoisman
Like, exactly. Like, we are TikTok Shop partners and I can tell you, building a Tick Tock Shop it takes time. It's not that it happened overnight and to make it. And it takes a big investment to start seeing results. But you need to be really known if your consumer is there. If it's not, they are. Like, for example, I have one of our brands that it's for mature audience. Yeah, the consumer might be there, but it might not be feel comfortable buying on.
- [19:49]
Champo
Exactly. And I think that's also where I think a lot of the brands like going back to their roots and like, who are they for? What is that their. What is their, what is their purpose? You know, who is their customer really? I think that's really sort of healthy to, to have a really conscious sort of think about that because otherwise you end up in this game where you're just trying to chase the next marketing channel. You're trying to chase the next, you know, next trend again. You know, I would much rather see brands just, they stay true to who and what they are and kind of stay in their lane as opposed to ones where they're kind of trying to catch every wave, you know, possible.
- [20:29]
Lara Schmoisman
As a marketer, and I'm very data driven like you are, but something that I've been seeing in the last few years is the, the market was started to be divided and it's something, I'm old school, but at the beginning it was brand and growth and branding. It was all together part of marketing. Now there are a lot of branding and then growth and it's like the message is diluted because we make a branding everything about the packaging, the looks and not about the consumer.
- [21:02]
Champo
Yeah, no, I do agree. I think it is a time where again, we have to bring the consumer back to the kind of center of. The center of the equation. Right. Because I mean, fundamentally, you know, and just like we do with technology for us as well. I mean, again, yes, we sell to brands and retailers and we help them create this personalized AI powered experience. But at the end of the day, like the consumer doesn't. If their consumer doesn't use it, if their consumer isn't engaged by it, if their consumer doesn't love it, well, we lose too. So I think at the end of the day, the consumer has to be at the center. Like, it has to be, you know, that's why we're, that's why we're in this business. Like, we're in this business for the consumer. Right. And.
- [21:47]
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah, yeah, sorry, go ahead.
- [21:50]
Champo
No, I was just gonna say, like, I. It's one of these kind of sobering thoughts that I don't think we should ever lose. But sometimes, you know, it's, it's kind of forgotten, you know, along all the noise.
- [22:04]
Lara Schmoisman
I have this conversation so many times a week that people, when they think about SEO, they think about finding the brand. And SEO is so much more than that. Not only because SEO is about being discovered, it's about finding who's your target audience and what they're looking for. But now also SEO is across all the channels, even in social media. And you have for AI technology we need to do structure the SEO differently.
- [22:36]
Champo
SEO.
- [22:37]
Lara Schmoisman
And I see, when I do audits all the time and I see brands that only are ranking with their name and their products names and that's such a big mistake. It's not about our brand only, that's our DNA.
- [22:50]
Champo
No, it's about the consumer. Right. It's about the consumer. Right. And that's true. And I think that's where, you know, this is also, I mean again, I do think, you know, there was this, you know, very recent announcement, you know, you mentioned AI there with kind of OpenAI and Shopify and then kind of partnering up and so forth. And I think that is a big wake up call because you know, they are, they wouldn't be doing a partnership like that if they wouldn't be seeing a lot of consumers actually looking to discover things through ChatGPT, through kind of LLMs. And I do think it kind of demonstrates to a lot of brands and a lot of retailers like, hey, you know, we have to be discoverable. Like we have to be. And the consumer is not going to go and find us on our brand or on our products name.
- [23:37]
Lara Schmoisman
They're not going to find us if they don't know if we exist.
- [23:40]
Champo
No, like they're gonna, they're gonna say hey, you know, I want a red lipstick. Or it's like what's the best moisturizer for me? Like that's, that's what they're trying to find. It's like I have a wedding, like I want a wedding look, like that's what they're trying to find. Right. And, and you know. Yeah. And you have to be discoverable.
- [23:57]
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah. And it's, this is about, I think this, the search terms change a lot. But it changed more this, it's about the intention. It's an intentional search.
- [24:07]
Champo
Yes.
- [24:08]
Lara Schmoisman
So what we need, all the algorithms have changed. Even Amazon has changed. Google, they go for the search intention, they don't go for the search terms anymore.
- [24:20]
Champo
Yeah, yeah. And I do think like that's again and this Kind of goes back to what I was mentioning earlier, which is about kind of brands sort of rethinking how they're serving consumers, saying, okay, it's not about us, it's not about our products, but it's about how can we help the consumer? How can we help the consumer buy? How can we help the consumer find the right products? How can we help the consumer solve whatever thing they're looking to solve, like whether it's a wedding they're going to or whether it's, you know, I don't know whether it's. That summer is coming and they need, you know, they, they need something, you know, you know, skincare product with spf, whatever it is. You know, I think that, you know, that's, that is, is I think, a fundamental opportunity for brands as well. And that's, that's also part of part. Yet another part where I'm kind of excited to, to see how this industry evolves, because I think there's a lot of opportunity for brands there to just say, hey, look, we exist for the consumer. We're just going to help the consumer. And if we help the consumer, they're going to buy from us. Yeah, absolutely.
- [25:24]
Lara Schmoisman
I always think about being a giver. Yeah, you need to give, give, give, and at some point, people are going to come back to you. It's like karma.
- [25:33]
Champo
Yeah, exactly. And I just think it's never been as important as. Because, I mean, like I said, there are so many great products, there's so many great brands. You know, just because you are natural or just because you have a great founder story, just because you have your organic, sustainable whatever, like, that doesn't. That's not enough anymore. Because there's. There's so many. There's just so many great alternatives that you got to really speak to the consumer and say, hey, tell the consumers, like, hey, we're here to help you. We're here to help you find the right products. We're here to help you buy. And if you can instill that into your target audience, like, you're going to be successful, you're going to be much more successful than the folks that are just going out there and just saying, okay, we're just thinking about what's the next marketing channel, what's the next customer acquisition channel? How do we get more consumers, how do we sell more?
- [26:29]
Lara Schmoisman
I think also there is is a confusion. Everyone talks about a pretty word out there called roas. And at the beginning of a brand, it's not about roas, it's about awareness.
- [26:42]
Champo
Yes, yes, it's, it's exactly that. And I think again, I mean, I do think that, you know, if I think about, you know, and again, I don't want to put kind of, you know, I always like to think of the example of the luxury brands, right, Again, which again are not, you know, not all beauty brands but, but the luxury brands, right? I mean the reason that they are long term successful is because they've been, they've been very consistent, very thoughtful about. This is who we are for, this is what we represent, these are our values and we're going to continue doing this year after year after year after year. It's not about the quick win, like you know, our return on ad spend, that's the quick win, right? But again, like it's not about the quick win, right. It's about finding that audience who you are for whose problem you're actually solving and sticking with that and just kind of doing that over and over again consistently. And you know, and I think that's where this is also where, you know, you have these brands that kind of have these moments where they just blow up, right? They just absolutely skyrocket. But what you don't see is that usually if you really look at those brands very closely and you look at the stories behind them, they've been at it for years. They've been working on it for years and years and years and years of consistently same message, same thing, very thoughtful, very targeted and at some point they blow up.
- [28:11]
Lara Schmoisman
I'm gonna put it out there and I know that people won't like what I'm gonna say. But launching a brand is a expensive and it's not only about the product, it's the cause of launching a brand. Your marketing to do things right is expensive. And if you don't have that budget to do it consistently, it's going to take more time. But what is really important, that you are very choosy and exclusive. Don't be that brand, that trust to be everywhere for this quick sell because that's the only thing that it's going to do is going to diluted their brand.
- [28:44]
Champo
Yeah, absolutely. I do think that it's, you know, it's, I would say that, you know, it's, it feels kind of very easy to, to kind of start a brand. But I think it's, it's more difficult than ever to, you know, to be long term successful because like you said, I mean it takes capital, it takes persistence, takes, you know, it takes, it takes a lot of consistency over a long Period of time. You know, it takes a lot of focus to. To. To be successful. And that's how you see these sort of overnight successes. 10 years, 10, 15 years in the making.
- [29:22]
Lara Schmoisman
So, yeah, Shamble, I cannot go without talking to you about this because I think it's important. I think that in the last year or two, we were having like an overload of AI.
- [29:34]
Champo
Yeah.
- [29:34]
Lara Schmoisman
Five years ago, I remember going to conferences and there were some talks about the AI and we were like 10 people listen to it.
- [29:41]
Champo
So.
- [29:42]
Lara Schmoisman
And because people thought that we are not that close, we are not that ready. And then two years ago, it exploded. And people are trying still to catch up how to prompt. Give prompts to ChatGPT. But anyway, I think we had an overload and a huge and fast learning curve. So do you think that this stop. That we got to a point that is going to slow down? And what do you think that is coming for the AI world in the beauty industry? What's next?
- [30:11]
Champo
That's a, That's a good question. So I do agree with you. I think, you know, in the aftermath of kind of, you know, ChatGPT sort of launching, where, I mean, like I said, We've been using AI for 10 years, so we kind of knew what it could do in the background. But I think what ChatGPT really did is, is an OpenAI. They really kind of open it up to the, to. To everybody, to the average consumers, like, wow, this thing is actually real. And obviously the technology has gotten really good the last couple of years. But I do think that what kind of happened were a couple things, which is. Well, first of all, I do think the technology is here to stay, Right? I do think it's here to stay. I don't think it's just a fad, but, but I do think that what happened there for a couple years is like, everybody went crazy over kind of all things AI, like from the boardroom of the brands.
- [31:02]
Lara Schmoisman
Like, people are talking about, crazy about the Internet bubble, or are we going crazy a little less?
- [31:09]
Champo
Well, I mean, maybe not as much as the Internet bubble, but I do think it was kind of everything was AI. First of all, all the companies wanted to brand themselves AI. Like, all the messaging was AI AI, AI this, AI that. And I think that really did stifle in the boardrooms of brands and retailers saying, okay, what are we doing with AI? Like, we got to do something and so forth. But again, the reality is, I think what we've seen is a lot of things that have been implemented by brands in the Last few years, you know, in a mad kind of AI, you know, AI rush maybe weren't that successful. And I think the reality is they rush into it. Well, I do think that they did rush into it a bit. And I think, again, AI as great as kind of ChatGPT is as great as kind of, I think our AI technology is and so forth. But it's still just a means to an end. Like, you know, if you're a brand, if you're a retailer, if you're any business, like, you really have to think about, okay, what are the things that we are looking to solve for? Like, what are the most pressing business problems we have either towards our customers or internally? Like, what are the things that we need to improve as a business in order to grow? Like, what's keeping us awake at night? And then you see, okay, is the technology AI, is that able to help us with those things rather than kind of starting with the technology? And I think technology companies are actually at fault here because I see this in our industry as well. Like, you know, a lot of people, you know, a lot of the CEOs of companies in our space, I see them talking about the technology like, AI, AI, how great all this technology is. And I'm thinking to myself, I'm saying, well, yeah, the technology is great, but again, like, in the end of the day, it's just an enabler. Like, and if you're just deploying the technology for the sake of the technology, it's not going to have the impact that you want it to. So I think, again, you have to be really thoughtful of how you do it. Now, I will say that again, I think that there's a lot of potential, there's a lot of kind of promise in AI for beauty. And it ranges from everything. Like, it ranges not just from the customer experience side of things, where we work, where we actually think it can kind of fundamentally change the experience that you're able to offer to the customer, but also in the background, like, if you think about analyzing data around trends and new formulations and what consumers care about, if you think about inventory management, if you think about, you know, how quickly you're able to kind of ship products to consumers, the convenience of shopping, all these things, there's a lot of promise. But I do think that you have to, instead of rushing into it just because something is AI, you really have to say, okay, this is a bottleneck for our business. And if we solve this bottleneck, this is what I think is going to happen. And this is by the way whenever I speak to an executive of one of our customers, that's the question I always ask is like, like, let's say you have this AI powered customer experience in front of your customers, in front of your audience. What's going to be different? What's going to change? What's going to happen? Because, you know, I don't want, you know, you just to deploy a piece of technology because it's the latest trend. I want to deeply understand what is it that you, you want to change in your business. And then we can talk about is it something where AI can even help or should it be something else? And yeah, that's.
- [34:55]
Lara Schmoisman
And behind every good AI tool, they should be humans.
- [35:01]
Champo
Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that's the other thing where I would kind of caution brands, you know, in the sense that, you know, beauty is a very, an executive of a major retailer told me that, you know, that, you know, that they don't want to kind of lose the romance of beauty is what they call it. And, and I actually think it's a very good analogy because, look, I mean, I, I just think it's a such a great way to say beauty is very romantic. And I think there is a certain kind of elegance and certain kind of human touch that you need. And we need to be very mindful that, you know, that, that we kind of retain that because that's part of the beauty in beauty. Right? I mean, it's. And again, the AI is an enabler. It's not a replacement. It's not a replacement. Right. And this is the same thing we tell everybody who's kind of saying, oh, we want to use AI in stores. I say, well, think about AI in a physical store. Think about it in a physical store in a way where it kind of gives superpowers to your beauty advisors. It's not meant to replace them. It's meant to empower them and give them superpowers.
- [36:17]
Lara Schmoisman
That's super interesting because one of the biggest challenges that I see that young brands have is educating people in the.
- [36:24]
Champo
Floors, in the stores. Yes, exactly, exactly. And I think, again, that's, I think, a perfect use case for AI. And it's not about those, those beauty advisors in the store getting replaced by AI and it's really about how do we make them 10 times as good as they are, how do we really supercharge them? How do we make sure that every interaction they have with the consumer ends up wowing the consumer? And I think that's where AI can help them. Certainly not replace them. I think that's a very important distinction.
- [36:58]
Lara Schmoisman
Thank you so much, Champo. This was a great talk. I really enjoy every minute and I could keep talking to you for hours.
- [37:06]
Champo
Thanks for having me, Lara. It's really been a pleasure. And likewise, I've really enjoyed the conversation.
- [37:11]
Lara Schmoisman
And to you guys. I will see you next week with more coffee number five. Find everything you need at larashmoisman.com or in the episode notes right below. Don't forget to subscribe. Was so good to have you here today. See you next time. Catch you on the flip side. Ciao, ciao.