Beauty & The Law with Marcha Isabelle Chaudruy

Summary

Coffee N°5 with Lara Schmoisman: Detailed Summary

Episode Title: Beauty & The Law with Marcha Isabelle Chaudruy
Release Date: November 26, 2024

---

Introduction

In the latest episode of Coffee N°5, host Lara Schmoisman sits down with Marcha Isabelle Chaudruy, a renowned expert in regulatory compliance and sustainability within the beauty industry. Marcha, affectionately known as Masha, brings a wealth of experience from her background in consumer advocacy and her pivotal role in shaping regulations that ensure safer, more sustainable beauty products. This episode delves deep into the intricate relationship between beauty brands and legal frameworks, exploring topics from clean beauty standards to the newly enacted Mokra law.

---

Guest Background: Marcha Isabelle Chaudruy

Masha begins by sharing her journey, highlighting her roots in consumer advocacy with the National Women's Health Network. She developed cosmetic policy programs, lobbied for enhanced regulatory oversight, and emphasized the impact of beauty products on inclusive communities:

Masha [01:29]: “I developed the cosmetic policy program and did a lot of lobbying at the regulatory and congressional levels, advocating for policies to enhance regulatory oversight and ingredient safety.”

Her transition to assisting brands with compliance, especially after the passing of the Mokra law, underscores her commitment to bridging the gap between advocacy and industry practices.

---

Understanding Clean Beauty

A significant portion of the conversation centers on the elusive concept of clean beauty. Masha explains that, lacking a standardized regulatory definition, various retailers like Credo, Sephora, and Target have crafted their own standards:

Masha [04:01]: “Clean beauty means excluding harmful substances and chemicals. Each retailer sets its own standards, but the core idea is to offer products that are not harmful.”

Lara probes why these standards are continually evolving, to which Masha attributes the dynamic nature of consumer needs and the progressive regulations in regions like the EU and UK:

Masha [05:20]: “Consumer needs are evolving, and other countries are advancing more in terms of banned and restricted ingredients compared to the U.S.”

They discuss the possibility of unifying clean beauty standards. Masha remains cautious, emphasizing the need for collaboration between industry experts, consumer advocates, and legislative bodies:

Masha [06:14]: “Unifying standards would require extensive collaboration and legislative support, which is a significant undertaking.”

---

Marketing to Diverse Communities

The discussion shifts to how beauty brands market to different ethnicities and communities. Using hair care as an example, Masha highlights the unique needs based on hair textures and the importance of authenticity in marketing:

Masha [07:48]: “Different communities have different hair textures and needs. It's beneficial for brands to market specifically to these communities, provided the products genuinely address their unique requirements.”

Lara echoes the necessity for genuine solutions over mere marketing strategies, stressing that products should offer real benefits tailored to the target demographics.

---

Navigating Mokra Law

One of the pivotal topics is the Mokra law, recently enacted to impose stringent regulations on beauty brands. Masha provides a comprehensive overview:

Masha [10:29]: “Mokra requires brands to list products with the FDA, update listings annually, and adhere to adverse event reporting. For example, serious adverse events must be reported to the FDA within specific timeframes.”

Key aspects include:

• Product Listing: Brands grossing over a million dollars in three years must list their products with the FDA.
• Facility Registration: Responsibility varies between brands and their manufacturers.
• Adverse Event Reporting: New mandates require brands to track and report serious consumer issues.

Lara expresses surprise at the adverse event reporting requirement:

Lara [12:36]: “I didn’t know that one. Is that new?”

Masha [12:42]: “Yes, it’s a new requirement under Mokra.”

---

Sexual Wellness and Regulatory Classifications

A nuanced segment covers how sexual wellness products are classified under Mokra. Masha distinguishes between cosmetics and medical devices based on ingredients and claims:

Masha [13:10]: “It depends on the ingredients and the claims. For instance, intimate care products that go inside the body are considered cosmetics unless they make specific medical claims.”

This classification impacts how brands must approach compliance and reporting, emphasizing the importance of understanding product distinctions.

---

Sustainability in Beauty Brands

Sustainability emerges as a critical theme, particularly for emerging brands juggling limited resources. Masha discusses the challenges and strategic importance of integrating sustainability from the outset:

Masha [15:46]: “Sustainability is costly but essential. It’s a smart investment that can save costs in the long run, especially as regulations and consumer expectations continue to evolve.”

She advises brands to focus on transparent sourcing, ethical practices, and sustainable packaging, even if it means higher initial expenses. Lara concurs, noting the delicate balance between sustainability and affordability for young brands.

---

Legal Compliance for New Brands

When advising hypothetical new brands, Masha emphasizes starting with compliance and transparency:

Masha [18:09]: “Begin with looking at your ingredients, sourcing practices, and ensuring that all claims are substantiated and compliant with regulations.”

Lara adds practical advice on minimizing risks related to marketing claims and the importance of avoiding misleading information:

Lara [21:21]: “Prefer to under-promise and over-deliver. Attract customers with facts, not exaggerated claims.”

Both agree that honesty and compliance build long-term trust and brand integrity.

---

Scaling Your Brand: Key Considerations

As brands aim to scale, Masha highlights the importance of staying ahead in regulatory compliance and sustainability:

Masha [26:58]: “Watch out for evolving state regulations and look to progressive countries for best practices. Staying ahead in compliance and sustainability is crucial.”

Lara reinforces the need for brands to anticipate future regulations and adapt accordingly, ensuring they are prepared for expansion into new markets.

---

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Masha and Lara discussing the relentless evolution of the beauty industry and the indispensable role of legal compliance and sustainability in building successful, trustworthy brands. Masha imparts a final piece of wisdom on the value of creating products that genuinely meet consumer needs, fostering loyalty and long-term success.

Masha [25:40]: “I’ve been loyal to my products for years because they work. Sustainability stems from products that deliver on their promises.”

Lara thanks Masha for her invaluable insights, encouraging listeners to apply these lessons to their own ventures.

Lara [29:17]: “Find everything you need at larashmoisman.com or in the episode notes. Don’t forget to subscribe.”

---

Key Takeaways

1. Clean Beauty Standards: Lack a unified definition, with various retailers setting their own criteria based on excluding harmful ingredients.
2. Mokra Law Compliance: New regulations require meticulous product listing, facility registration, and adverse event reporting.
3. Sustainable Practices: Essential for long-term success, requiring transparency in sourcing and ethical business practices.
4. Authentic Marketing: Tailoring products to diverse communities must be genuine and based on real needs, not just marketing strategies.
5. Scaling with Compliance: Staying ahead of evolving regulations and maintaining sustainability are crucial for brands looking to expand.

---

Notable Quotes

• Masha [04:01]: “Clean beauty means excluding harmful substances and chemicals. Each retailer sets its own standards, but the core idea is to offer products that are not harmful.”
• Lara [12:36]: “I didn’t know that one. Is that new?”
• Masha [18:09]: “Begin with looking at your ingredients, sourcing practices, and ensuring that all claims are substantiated and compliant with regulations.”
• Masha [26:58]: “Watch out for evolving state regulations and look to progressive countries for best practices.”

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of Coffee N°5 provides a comprehensive exploration of the intersection between beauty brands and legal frameworks. Marcha Isabelle Chaudruy's expertise offers listeners actionable strategies to navigate the complexities of compliance, sustainability, and authentic marketing. Whether you're an established entrepreneur or launching a new beauty venture, the insights shared are invaluable for fostering enduring success in a competitive landscape.

---

Stay Connected

For more insights and detailed discussions, visit larashmoisman.com or check out the episode notes below. Don’t forget to subscribe to Coffee N°5 for your weekly dose of business wisdom!

Transcript

[Masha]

Foreign.

[Lara Schmoisman]

This is Coffee Number Five. I'm your host, Lara Schmoisman. Hi everyone. Welcome back to Coffee Number Five. My coffee is ready as usual. I'm ready to have an amazing chat. So as you guys know, I'm daughter and sister of lawyers and everyone who always or work with me or had an audit with me, they know that I always go into legalities. It's embedded to me. I mean, I grew up in a household that my vocabulary was very well developed at young age. My parents talk always in legal jargon and all my friends made fun of me of that about that, but it just really helped me later on in life. However, I do see the importance of brands who understand the legal consequences of what they're doing. So today I brought another friend and welcome. Masha, thank you so much for being here. And you have an incredible trajectory today. You're specialized in Mokra and regulations for brands, but also you come from the background of sustainability. So what you don't, why you don't tell us a little bit about you and your background and how did you get to where you are today?

[Masha]

Thank you. Thank you for having me, Laura And I have my coffee too. Oh, awesome. Yes, I do come from a background of advocacy, consumer advocacy specifically, and advocating for safer, sustainable products in the beauty industry. I started my career, or when I started my career in the beauty industry, I was at the National Women's Health Network where I developed their cosmetic policy program and did a lot of lobbying at the regulatory, at the congressional level and agency level, advocating for different policies to enhance regulations around regulatory oversight in the government. And clean, clean, I say yes, I heard that, yes. And ingredient safety. And then I also put a special emphasis on how these issues impact inclusive communities because women are the majority users of many cosmetics. And also certain communities face certain harms or more harms because because of their, their added usage for different cosmetic products and skincare products and hair care products. And so that's a long way to say that I did a lot of background work in advocacy and sort of getting the, bringing the attention to some of these issues that were lacking in terms of regulation. And so when Mokra was passed, as a result of a lot of consumer advocates, including myself, including nonprofit organizations, nos, and even industry lobbyists and advocates, I decided to assist brands with compliance, given my deep understanding of the policy and.

[Lara Schmoisman]

Regulation that's so important. But there were some things that you were saying back then that it really caught my attention and is part of the continued conversation. Let's talk first about clean Beauty, what it means to be clean beauty and why clean beauty is always evolving. And there are different standards of clean beauty. You have cradle Sephora. Can you explain our audience what clean beauty means and why there are different standards?

[Masha]

Yeah, so clean beauty means a lot of different things given that there isn't a regulatory definition for clean. And so retailers have become innovative and developed their own standards for clean. And like you mentioned, Credo has a clean beauty standard, Sephora has a clean beauty standard, Target does, and other retailers. And they're all different and some of them are very similar. But essentially many of these standards are, you know, they're excluding harmful or known to being harmful substances and chemicals and products. And they're also. Well, yes, they're free from, they're restricted or banned. So they set their own standards in terms of what clean is. But essentially, I guess the value or the underlining theme is that we want products and consumers want products that are not harmful.

[Lara Schmoisman]

Absolutely. But why is it keep evolving? And do you think that some standards are crossing the line a little too much, much of their cleanest cleaning roles?

[Masha]

I would say no, I don't think so. As a advocate, you know that background, as a consumer advocate, they are evolving because consumer needs are, are evolving. Also other countries regulations are evolving. As you know, the EU and UK are far more advanced in terms of the amount of banned and restricted ingredients in those countries versus us. Yes, it's a vast difference.

[Lara Schmoisman]

Do you, do you think like we have now the Mocra law, that we're gonna get into that soon, but also that we're gonna evolve the point that we're gonna unify what we, we call it clean ingredients. I have a list that there is going to be more unique and not depending on stores.

[Masha]

That's a stretch. I mean that would, that would be, that would be great. I think it will take a lot of working together from industry side. Consumer side, industry advocates, you know, they have their own scientists and so does the consumer advocates and they often have different opinions in terms of what and expertise and knowledge around which ingredients are clean and not clean. And so I think there's, it's going to take a lot of collaboration and then, you know, working with Congress as well to get legislation around this issue.

[Lara Schmoisman]

Do you think it's important?

[Masha]

Of course, yeah, I do think it's important. I, I, as a consumer myself and you know, disregard my, my background. I like to shop for products that have proven, you know, whether it's their claims, whether it's their ingredients to be clean or to be free from certain harmful chemicals and are efficacy as well?

[Lara Schmoisman]

Yeah, absolutely. So another thing that I just touched on was different ethnicities or different backgrounds. Do you feel like the beauty industry output some brands and putting themselves in boxes that they're just. You think it's a marketing strategy or they're really products that it works better for an RDC or, or another one?

[Masha]

That's a layered question given, you know, I'll use the example of hair products. Different ethnicities have different hair textures. You know, my wash day might look completely different from another person's wash day who is not a black woman who has, you know, four textured hair which requires a lot of moisture, a lot of conditioning and a lot different wash routines. So I think in terms of it depends on the product category. But for hair products, for example, I do think it could be advantageous for brands to put themselves in the specific box and market to specific communities, given that the needs and the textures and those communities have different needs. But I've seen with some marketing, for example, I don't want to name any brands, but I have seen some brands that I've heard that if it works for this community, for example, black women who have our hair requires a lot of moisture in order for it not to get damaged and break and get brittle. And so if the product can work for this community, then it's kind of covering other communities who have different hair textures as well.

[Lara Schmoisman]

Well, I think that this is more a problem solution like how I see it more for marketing. And yes, there are some communities of some ethnicities that have like for example, I'm Jewish as Ganasi and we have, we're tend to have more skin cancer. So we need to be more mindful of our skin, which is true as part of heritage. But also there are many other heritage that they have the same thing. But I've been seeing from the marketing side lately that there are a lot of brands that they are auto dominating themselves, part of a culture and trying to approach their equals.

[Masha]

I think it depends on the type of product because like I used the example of hair, we do have different hair textures and curl patterns. And so if you want to market a product to a specific community that has specific curl patterns and issues with those curl patterns and I don't see anything wrong with it. But also you're the expert in marketing, so I would defer to you.

[Lara Schmoisman]

Well, I have my own opinions about that. But let's go back to Mokra because I'm super interested in talking about what Mokra Means for brands.

[Masha]

Yeah. Mokra is a regulation that was passed recently which requires a myriad of different regulations that brands need to abide to. So there's the product listing, and it depends on the size of the brand. If you're a big brand then grossing over a million over the course of three years, then your products need to be listed with the fda. For smaller brands, there are exceptions. It depends on which kind of products you have. The exceptions include products that go around the membrane of the eye, products that are injected, and products that alter the appearance of the skin for more than 24 hours. So there's this new listing requirement that requires brands to list their products with the FDA and update that yearly.

[Lara Schmoisman]

And then for facilities, that's responsibility of the brand itself or its responsibility of the manufacturing facility to register them, it's the responsible person.

[Masha]

And at times that can be the brand and then other times it's the. The manufacturer and the responsible person is the person that's listed on the label. I see there's also requirements around adverse event reporting, which is also new. And it's this measure that provides the FDA with information about the safety of products. So if a consumer has an issue with a product and they have a serious adverse event, then they need to be able to report that to the brand or give that brand that information. And the brand has. Or the responsible person, I should say, has this, this new responsibility to assess it, keep it on record for three years for small businesses and six years for big businesses and report it to the FDA if it's serious.

[Lara Schmoisman]

Oh, that's really important. I didn't know that one. Is that new?

[Masha]

Yeah, that's new. This is one of the new requirements under mocra. It's adverse event reporting.

[Lara Schmoisman]

Okay. So there's a whole new section in the Beauty Beauty cosmetics wellness space that is sexual wellness. How sexual wellness. Get into Mokra. Because I want, and I'm not an expert on this, but a lot of sexual wellness products that you put internally, I believe that they are considered devices.

[Masha]

Okay. That's a more technical classification. It depends on the ingredients, the claims on the product and the usage. Device has its own requirements under the fda and cosmetics have. Have its own under mocra. I know I have clients who have intimate care products, for example, which can go inside of the body and they're considered cosmetics. So it really would depend.

[Lara Schmoisman]

What's the difference there between being considered a device or a cosmetic device that.

[Masha]

Goes into a whole nother area of mainly instruments Cosmetics is anything that you put on your Skin to beautify your appearance. So makeup, skin, skin care, hair care are cosmetics. You're using these products to whether it's like make your hair look prettier or beautify your, your face in terms of makeup or skin. So these are just ways products that you're using to enhance your physical impairment appearance.

[Lara Schmoisman]

But so for example, in sexual wellness that you have products that it will enhance the feeling. Yeah.

[Masha]

Feeling is not a cosmetic.

[Lara Schmoisman]

It's not, no.

[Masha]

Well, not really. But there could be some exceptions. Like I said, it would depend on the claims on the, could depend on the ingredients. And when I say claims, it's like what is the product reporting to do? You know, is it just making you feel a certain way or is it improving the appearance of something?

[Lara Schmoisman]

I see, I see that. That's very interesting. And it could be for brands who, they can go either way, but depends of I guess who, what the company and the purpose is for.

[Masha]

Yes, yes.

[Lara Schmoisman]

So how do you explain sustainability? Because it's really hard for brands or young brands to have like low moqs. And as you know, in brands, in cosmetics sometimes you need to be making adjustments and modification or in clean beauty that also the products or the ingredients are, you need to change. So you need to change a composition. So how can you help brands to be sustainable and not necessarily having to incur into more expenses?

[Masha]

Yeah, that's a tricky, it's a tricky thing especially because now sustainability is so it's a hot topic. I know 5 years ago when I was talking about sustainability, even in, in terms of its intersection with climate, people were, and I say people, it was, you know, some of the advocacy that I was doing at the time it was like, ah, sure, cosmetics, climate change, sure. But now it's, it's becoming this hot topic and this, this thing that, you know, we're starting to see that consumers are demanding for in terms of where consumers in terms of, you know, how they think about the environment, like where these, the packaging is ending up and how the packaging is made and they're wanting more transparency around where the ingredients are coming for. So from. So it's sourcing and then whether it's clean. So I think sustainability plays into a lot of different aspects from the ingredients to the packaging, even the claims because even transportation, storage. Yeah, it's a long chain of different elements and brands wanting to. Well, I think just brands thinking about sustainability from the start is a plus.

[Lara Schmoisman]

And it's, it is a plus but also could be very costly for a brand trying to, at the beginning, when when you have lower quantities to try to be completely sustainable.

[Masha]

Absolutely. It's, it is costly, it's an investment. And but with the regulations changing and the consumer needs changing, I think it's a smart investment and it's, and it can save costs on the back end. You know, if you're with, if this brand blows up and becomes super successful, at least it's, you know, it's starting out with a sustainability plan.

[Lara Schmoisman]

Like for example, if you need to advise a very young brand that is has limited resources, how do you tell them to protect themselves and to start right as a brand? From the legal side.

[Masha]

From the legal side? Well, I would start with compliance. Of course, it depends on where the brand is. So it has this brand. Is this brand already developed?

[Lara Schmoisman]

This is an hypothetical brand. Starting from scratch.

[Masha]

Yeah, starting from scratch. Yeah, starting from scratch. Then I think you have, you have so many options and I, it's, I believe it's easier to at least start. I don't know that you can get sustainability perfected, but if you start to, and sustainability and clean kind of go hand in hand to me in some ways because the free from includes chemicals that can harm the environment and possibly the body. So, so starting with looking at your ingredients, where they're sourced and where they're sourced, how the practices around the employees there are handled, it's really a, I guess a journey of a lot of transparency, which has often not been the case in the beauty industry. Even with fragrances, for example, that's a protected trade secret. But brands that are willing to, or our companies and teams that are willing to start from the very beginning with transparency in terms of how they get their ingredients, where they get them, the ingredients that they disclose and the quality of the ingredients is important. All of that is costly as well. Then I would go into compliance, you know, making sure the claims are backed, making sure that the marketing copy, you know, is, is abiding by what you're allowed to say based on what your, the ingredients are based on the, the testing or non testing you've done.

[Lara Schmoisman]

So that, that's a, that, that's a really good one. And I'm always say to my clients in packaging, as long if you don't have clinicals, if you don't have the data to back up, in packaging at least less is more because it can be very costly to have to remove it or to change it. If it's in the website, it's very easy to change. But whatever you print is out there.

[Masha]

Exactly. That's great advice.

[Lara Schmoisman]

No I mean, it's really, really important, the claims even. I mean, we're getting flagged all the time with Amazon, with Meta, with claimants. You need to be super careful. It's something that I got at the agency. Of course we have copywriters, but also we have a proofreader and I drive them crazy. Are you sure that this is not claiming? I. Because you are misleading your customers and that's a thing that you can never do is I prefer always to under promise and over deliver, but to be honest of who you are as a brand and attract someone with facts, not with freaky claims. And I feel like there are a lot of brands that they do that.

[Masha]

Yeah, that, that's great advice, Laura, because a lot of brands do do that. I've come across brands that, you know, I'm assisting with compliance and we have to redo all of the labeling because the, you know, the claim that there wasn't any substantiation and maybe they just looked at a competitor and thought, oh, we can, we can claim what they claim because our products are similar. But you can't do that. You know, that company may have gone through testing and consumer surveys and other forms of validating their claims.

[Lara Schmoisman]

Yeah. And also like for example, when a brand put doctor recommended or you really have to have a doctor and have that in file somewhere to be able to show it.

[Masha]

Yes.

[Lara Schmoisman]

It's not that you can say, oh no, I just, I just put it.

[Masha]

Yeah.

[Lara Schmoisman]

Is it saying that with reviews. I had a case of a client recently that I took over from another agency. Let's put it this way. And what I found out is that there were a lot of reviews and there were fake reviews.

[Masha]

Oh, man. Yeah. That's going into issues with the ftc. You don't want to do that at all.

[Lara Schmoisman]

Of course. It's not good. It's not good at all. Because you are really creating a problem for your brand because you want people to. And in this case, the reviews weren't even talking about her products, they were talking about random products. So if you start reading, I was like, what was this marketing thinking? And she reached out to him and he said, well, fake reviews are better than no reviews.

[Masha]

Oh my goodness.

[Lara Schmoisman]

I mean, if as you are a good marketer, there is great ways to get reviews out there.

[Masha]

Yeah. And I think you want honest reviews that also can help you enhance your brand.

[Lara Schmoisman]

Absolutely. It's so important is to do social listening is something that people don't put it on the side. And it's really important to Listen to those reviews and what people are complaining is one of my tricks. What I really like to work with my clients early on, even when they are in development and work next to them with formulation and see how we going to use this with their brand story. For me, brand story is super important and founder story. But one of the things that I always recommend is go to your competition and look at the reviews and see what people are complaining so you don't make those mistakes if you think that the texture is not right from that product. Oh, so what can we do to make that texture better?

[Masha]

Right, yeah. That's a good way to learn from what others are doing and enhance your own product.

[Lara Schmoisman]

Because there is, there is so much going there out there. There are so many brands. I do believe that there's space more for good products out there. They always are. Is. But at the same time, you need to make sure that you don't put one more product out there. Like, oh, yes, this is my benchmark. Like, so this. But it's the same as them. But let's just change the branding. That's not having a good product out there. You have to have a problem, you have to have a solution, create a solution. But also you need to look at the competitive space and who you're going to be because there is so many people, they are buying products, so you definitely gonna do that. Someone stopped buying another product to buy yours, so why?

[Masha]

Right, exactly. The why. I will say, as I'm loyal to the products that I use, I've used certain products for the past 10 years because they're that good and that goes into sustainability Again, because this product does what it says it's going to do and it did the testing and it actually works. So I don't even have to go and shop around and buy all these different products because I like what I use and it works for me.

[Lara Schmoisman]

That's great. But at the same time, your skin evolves and mature.

[Masha]

It does. I mean, I'm sure 10 years I may be using, but for the last 10 years I have been using some of the same products.

[Lara Schmoisman]

That's fantastic. But sometimes it's good also to see. To start understanding your own skin. Like, for example, there were some products that I really like, but as I was becoming a more mature woman, I realized that they stopped working. Yeah, I started to go and go outside and say, okay, let's find what else works for me. And believe me, it was a journey. Yeah, I can imagine it was a very interesting journey because your body changes and Your skin changes with it.

[Masha]

Absolutely.

[Lara Schmoisman]

So before we go, I want to ask you one more question. So if you have, let's say, a brand in the market that they're trying to scale right now, I can tell you what things people are not paying enough attention from the marketing side. We talk about a little bit about how the, the story, or for me it's accessibility laws or cookie laws and other laws. But what are people, what are things that people need to watch for as they scale a brand?

[Masha]

Yeah, as you scale, of course. I'm going to say this as someone who's in compliance regulations at the state level. There's a lot going on, different states coming, planning to impose various restrictions in the future. I'm doing a, I'm going to be on a panel next year discussing this, like what's going on at the state level, but watch out for the regulations. I would also say look at what other countries that are more progressive than the U.S. depending on, you know, what kind of brand this is, if they're just based here and selling here. But look at the progressive countries in terms of what they're doing or progressive policies that are being implemented around cosmetics in other countries that have big beauty markets and see what they're doing. That's a, that's a, I think that's a cheat code. I know a lot of brands that sort of, in terms of when they're developing their product, they're already following other countries that have progressive.

[Lara Schmoisman]

Absolutely. That's one of the recommendations that I always give to my brands. That when you create your product, you create it for the future, that to be able to expand wherever you, you want because you never know where your opportunities will come from.

[Masha]

Yeah. And I would say, yeah, as long as you're staying ahead in terms of compliance, I think is important. Staying ahead in terms of sustainability, which is becoming more and more of a, an issue and, and theme in the cosmetic industry and paying attention to what consumers are, are looking for. I look at consumer surveys, I look at, I do research when I do presentations. I look at the statistics on, you know, how many consumers prefer this and prefer that. And so look at those studies that are out there to see how you can enhance your product as well.

[Lara Schmoisman]

That is great advice. Well, thank you so much, Masha, for being here. It was great seeing you.

[Masha]

Great seeing you too. And thank you for having me. And enjoy the rest of your Friday.

[Lara Schmoisman]

And to you guys. I will see you next week with more coffee. Number five. Find everything you need at larashmoisman.com or in the episode notes right below. Don't forget to subscribe. Was so good to have you here today. See you next time. Catch you on the flip side. Ciao. Ciao.