Beyond the Business Card: Strategic Networking with Mike Ryan | Coffee N5

Summary

Coffee N° 5 with Lara Schmoisman

Episode: Beyond the Business Card: Strategic Networking with Mike Ryan

Date: April 14, 2026
Host: Lara Schmoisman
Guest: Mike Ryan (PIMS, "Chief Networking Officer")

---

Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Lara welcomes Mike Ryan—her friend and networking inspiration—to dive deep into the true art and strategy behind business networking. The conversation goes well beyond superficial tips, tackling how to foster authentic professional relationships, build ethical reputations, and adapt to seismic shifts in the beauty, wellness, and lifestyle industries (especially in the digital age). Mike shares his 37+ years of wisdom at PIMS, discussing career evolution, the power of showing up, developing community, and embracing change—both technologically and interpersonally.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Networking is About Relationships, Not Transactions

• Both Lara and Mike stress that successful networking means treating everyone with respect, regardless of status.
• Relationships aren’t transactional; you never know when a previous connection may lead to future opportunities.
• Authenticity and genuine curiosity are valued over simply collecting business cards.

“It’s about building relationships, not to fill up your schedule or your to do list.” — Lara [00:54]

2. Mike’s Career Evolution and PIMS’ Transformation

• Mike recounts his beginnings at PIMS in 1989—before email and the Internet (salary: $15,000/year).
• The business started as a press release distribution service and evolved to include fulfillment, customized send-outs, and digital warehouse management.
• Success came from embracing change, listening to client needs, and adapting services accordingly.

“A couple things happened along the way…our world was changed forever. Now instead of just press release distribution, we are doing product fulfillment.” — Mike [04:13]

• PIMS innovated with digital inventory, customized packaging, and rapid response to the shifting demands of digital and social media.

3. Adaptation to Digital & AI Disruption

• Both discuss how PIMS and their broader industry had to adapt to email, then digital marketing, and now AI.
• The pace of change is constant, requiring humility and willingness to learn.

“We're going through it again with AI and everything that is changing in our world right now—it's just a matter of getting used to that change.” — Mike [07:48]

4. Strategic Networking at Industry Events

• Lara highlights the difference between “people who go to events… and people that go to events.” The latter engage deeply, build real connections, and maximize their presence.
• Mike and Lara critique surface-level schmoozing, “interruptors,” and those chasing only high-status connections.
• Real friendships and trust within the industry facilitate referrals and long-term success.

“There are people in our world that go to events just to be at the event... If we have six hours, we fill that six hours.” — Mike [08:04]

“It's not transactional... You recommend someone because you know that person as a person, as your ethics. That to me is super important.” — Lara [10:50]

5. Reinventing Event Sponsorships & Brand Participation

• Early mistakes: spending thousands for little ROI at crowded trade shows with anonymous booths.
• Evolved approach: seek partnership, authority, and active participation (panels, creative sponsorships, adding real value).
• Due diligence before committing to partnerships (“kick the tires” by attending as a guest first).

“You quickly realize that... just standing behind a table and pitching your business... [has] limited value. We need to do a little bit more than that.” — Mike [11:26]

6. Community, Reputation, and Ethics

• Building a real community transcends paying for access; it’s about engaging, giving back, and maintaining ethical standards.
• Reputation is everything—especially in service-based roles with no long-term contracts.
• Being candid, providing feedback, and creating circles of trust set brands and professionals apart.

“Networking is just like that. You can have the job of chief networking officer, but if you're not doing it...you're not following through... your brand will suffer.” — Mike [15:26]

“You're always building two brands: your personal brand and the company that you represent.” — Lara [15:57]

“Our reputation—our white glove service, the award winning account teams... These are the things that these people have come to know and trust.” — Mike [21:08]

7. Collaboration Over Competition

• Lara denounces industry cliques, unnecessary competition, and urges providers to work together for client benefit.
• A “circle of trust” means recommending only those who will reflect well on you and help your clients thrive.

“I see so many that they... don't want to help each other… I want to be able to send a text to the other providers... ‘How can we work it out together to help the client?’” — Lara [19:22]

8. Innovation in Customer Experience & Unboxing

• Mike explains how PIMS uses events to demonstrate custom “unboxing” experiences, letting execs design their own packaging and see the logistics firsthand.
• Discussion about the complex realities behind influencer send-outs, packaging, and the technicalities of delivering a memorable, personalized experience.

“Each table gets their own box with their own elements and they have to sort of put together how the box should look when it's sent out… it's been a huge success.” — Mike [25:04]

• The omni-channel landscape means services must flex to rapid social/digital trends, with direct implications for how brands prepare for launches and manage buzz.

9. Embracing Change Is the Only Constant

• The industry (especially beauty/fashion) has had to adapt not just its marketing but the entire logistics pipeline to the speed of the Internet and consumer expectations.
• PIMS continually reinvents its offerings based on client conversations and emerging needs.

“We've reinvented ourselves many times over the years, and it usually stems from, you know, shift in technology, what people are looking for, what people are expecting...” — Mike [28:25]

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On First Impressions and Networking:
  “It’s about building relationships, not to fill up your schedule or your to do list.” — Lara [00:54]
• On Loyalty and Evolution:
  “It’s 1989. There is no Internet… I jumped in. Back then we were a press release distribution service… Now instead of just press release distribution, we are doing product fulfillment.” — Mike [03:57, 04:13]
• On the Digital Revolution:
  “We're going through it again with AI and everything that is changing in our world right now—it's just a matter of getting used to that change.” — Mike [07:48]
• On Brand Authority:
  “Being at a panel is important. It automatically tells the audience... you’re an authority. You’ve been vetted.” — Mike [12:38]
• On Real Community vs. Transactional Networking:
  “There is something to be said for making friends within the industry… That solves the problem of when clients… need a service outside of whatever PIMS is offering.” — Mike [10:13]
• On Reputation and Honesty:
  “Our reputation... is the only thing that we have that locks us in with clients.” — Mike [21:08]
  “I’m not an affiliate, but for the service industry, sometimes the most important thing is not to say yes to everything.” — Lara [22:04]
• On the Importance of the Circle of Trust:
  “That circle of trust… I’m very careful who I recommend because it’s my responsibility.” — Lara [18:41]
• On Change and Adaptation:
  “If we've learned anything, it's always changing.” — Mike [29:26]
• On Coffee Preferences (for fun):
  “I like... a couple of dashes of creamer, Irish mint, Irish coffee, any kind of like that minty sort of thing. I know I'm alone in that world…” — Mike [29:46]

---

Timestamps of Important Segments

• [00:31] – Introduction, networking philosophies
• [03:48] – Mike’s career story and PIMS origins
• [07:01] – Adapting to new technology and digital transformation
• [09:07] – Event networking: strategies and pitfalls
• [11:26] – Real-world experience with event sponsorships
• [13:15] – Navigating “pay-for-play” and authentic partnerships
• [15:26] – Building community, personal and brand reputation
• [19:22] – Choosing collaboration over competition
• [24:38] – PIMS’ unique unboxing experiences
• [27:24] – Adjusting to industry speed and digital-first world
• [28:25] – Reinventing for the future; technology disruption
• [29:39] – Wrapping up: the need to “show up” and coffee quirks

---

Takeaways for Listeners

• Networking is about genuine, reciprocal human connections—consistency, reputation, and ethics are critical.
• Adaptability (to digital, AI, client needs) is key for long-term relevance—show up, keep learning, and never get complacent.
• Active participation in your industry creates authority and trust; transactional approaches fall flat.
• Community and collaboration lead to better outcomes than competition and protectiveness.
• Your reputation is your contract; protect it fiercely.
• And yes, even in business, everyone has their unique coffee order.

---

Whether you’re a networking novice or an industry veteran, this episode offers a masterclass in authentic relationship-building, adapting to industry change, and creating a trusted professional community—one meaningful conversation at a time.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. This is coffee number five. I'm your host, Lara Schmoizman. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Coffee number five. Today, as always, I have a treat for you. I hope your coffee is ready and warm because this is conversation. It will need a few sips and a lot of caffeine for you to keep up because I know it and because today I brought you dear friend of mine, Mark. Mike Ryan. Hi.

[B]

Yes, hello.

[A]

How are you? So you know what? You guys know that I'm a social butterfly, but Mike is my guy. When I go to events with Mike, it's like, yes, I can do this, and I have someone to do it with me. And I know he's going to walk with me in the show, and I know that he's going to talk to everyone like me. And you know what? Something I learned about networking that is doesn't matter who you talk, you respected the same of someone that is a CEO or someone just starting. You get to know the person. It's about building relationships not to fill up your schedule or to your to do list. So. Hi, Mike.

[B]

It's true. Thank you for that warm welcome. It's true. And that's honestly when we first met was not really the first time we met, right? I saw you at a couple of networking events, and then I think I saw you talking to one of my colleagues, Dave Silberglight, and I said, who's that woman? Because I see her everywhere. And he's like, oh, yeah, I've introduced you to her. She's great. She's fabulous. She started talking to her. You won't be able to stop. And then I went over, he introduced me to you, and that's how we got to know each other. But that whole networking thing you just talked about, that's how it sort of plants into my head, right? Like, the people that you see, you become friendly with. I see a lot of these familiar faces over and over again. And then you connect with them, right? Like, you almost feel like you know them by the time you meet. It's a lot of times in networking when I approach somebody for the first time, I say, we've never met before, but I've seen you. And they could say the same thing. I know. I see you all this, and that's

[A]

the open it's so important to show. And it's not only showing an event or networking, it's showing in your work too. It's about showing up at the end of the day. And I think that's why you built also such a amazing Career. And we'll talk about that in a minute. But it's about you show up, you make that relationship in any industry, people need to see it over and over again. I won't forget a few years ago, I was starting also in the beauty industry and I didn't know a lot of people, but I started to recognize some faces. And I'm going to a random event in Los Angeles and I ran into a woman that I know that she was a consultant for high ticket coaches. And I was, what are you doing here? And she was, well, the margins in beauty industry are really good. So I'm trying to see if I can get the consulting gig here. And I was wrong. That's not what you do. That's how not you approach anything in life. And I'm sorry for the people who work with her as a consultant that if that's advice that she gave them anyway. But Mike, let me ask you a question because you've been at PIMS for a long, long time. And also there was an. I want to hear how you started, how your career grew, how you believe became this chief, chief networking officer, networking office. That's what I would say. Cheerleader. But I want also to ask you because also the industry that we're working in, that, that is beauty, wellness, fashion, accessories, all those things have evolved. And how the digital world also affected our industry so much that you guys had to create new offerings.

[B]

Yeah, it's true. You know, when we first started, when I first started at Pims, and I've been there for 37 years, you know, it's 1989.

[A]

That's loyalty.

[B]

Yeah, thank you. It's 1989. There is no Internet. There is no, you know, I got the New York Times and I sent a resume in and Mark Glickman, who my mentor from way back in the day, picked my resume off the top of a pile and called me and I went in and I was offered, I think 14 or $15,000 a year to be a sales assistant. And I jumped in. Back then we were a press release distribution service. A lot of times what people don't realize in this world of ours is the way that the word got out back then in the 80s and prior to that was PR firms would write press releases. 1, 2, 3 pages. They would send them to us. We would staple, fold and mail. Staple, fold and mail. And we would send these out by the tens of thousands, working primarily with agencies to get the word out. Couple things happened along the way. Right. Like, so we realized a long time ago that there was a lot of ebbs and flows in the PR world. There would be busy months and then slow months, busy months and then slow months. And then one day somebody called a few years in and said, can I send a product? If I want to send a product with that press release, can I do it? And we looked around and said, I mean, I guess. And our world was changed forever. Now instead of just press release distribution, we are doing product fulfillment. Along with that product fulfillment came a lot of product samples that people would send us. We're going to send you inventory. I need to send out 200, but I'm going to send you 300. Can you, can you hold on to the extra? You sent me 500. I only need 150. Can you hold on to the extra? So for a while years ago, we were trying to manage that in our own office space.

[A]

Yeah, we were a storage facility.

[B]

We had our own little storage facility, but we couldn't manage it. And we were growing in leaps and bounds. So we realized back then that we had to get into the warehouse space. We created our own inventory management system to support that. And, and it's grown in leaps and bounds. So along with the fulfillment now that we do with these product offerings, we also have the warehouse inventory management where people can send inventory months or years in advance, have us hold onto it. So when it's needed, it's quick and easy to pick and pull. But getting back to me, I started as a sales assistant, typing. There was no computer. I think we had one computer. No, no fax machine, no Internet. And I would hand type these sales letters and mail them out with a brochure about PIMs Type of sales that are mail it out with PIMS brochure. I grew out of that role and I became an account executive. We started getting so many clients that we decided, you know, we need to have somebody who just handles the accounts, right? The day to day activity, making sure that they have the inventory in place, making sure that you pull the stuff out of the warehouse, that the timing looks right. And while you're doing that, can you like build a relationship with these folks? Like we don't want to just do one thing for them, we want to do many. So as part of your travels, can you get to know them, take them out to lunch, have a coffee, do more than just answer the phone, which by the way, there was no email. We used to call each other on the phone from that.

[A]

Let's talk about evolution for you. That you had to learn all These technologies along the way.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And I remember my, my boss, Mark Lichtman came to me one day and said, we're using this new thing called email, right, People. Because back then people would print out copy, put it in an envelope and send a bike messenger to us that we would use as a copy. You know, we would copy a copy, copy a copy. Nothing was sent out digitally again, no Internet. We were ready to send out stuff by mail. And he said, this new system called email, you're going to have your own address that people can send stuff something to you over the computer. And we're like, how's that going to work? That'll never catch on. It's never going to work. And of course things changed forever when that came. Just the evolution.

[A]

Remember when someone tried to give me an email address and they told me at and I was, I wrote the word at.

[B]

It's so funny. But yeah, I mean things changed as quickly as it is now. You know, we're going through it again with AI and everything that is changing in our world right now, it's just a matter of getting used to that change. Right. And with the networking, you know, as I became an account person then I became in charge and we hired more people to handle accounts. I became the director of client services, person in charge of the account people. So the people that I worked with on the everyday now I sort of stepped up a level and started Talking to their VPs and managers about long term activity with PIMs and what else we can be doing for them and managing things like price and turnaround and quality control, that sort of thing versus just the day to day activity. I of course was in sales with pims. But we decided again in building our brand that we needed to have sort of a face out there of somebody that could find partners in the space outside of a clientele that could manage what events we're going to be going to under a certain budget and then go to those events. And not just, I mean, you've been to so many events too. There is people that just go to events and there are people that go to events. Right. Like you and I are cut from the same cloth. I see you as I do it myself, we're talking to people, we talk to the next person. If we have six hours, we fill that six hours. There are people in our world that go to events just to be at the event. You, you know, they listen to the

[A]

panel discussion, which is fine, really drive me crazy. And I'm gonna say it. The ones that I'm having a conversation. And then interfere in the conversation and say, I'm sorry. I saw that person who is in my list of people that I want.

[B]

That's a good one. That's a good one. That's a good one.

[A]

That drives me crazy.

[B]

That's a good one. You know what drives me crazy is you get a lot of students or people that are looking for a new job. You get a lot of other vendors. You know, sometime over the years, I've had so many great conversations that five minutes, and I'm like, this is going so well. This person's so cool. And I find out that they're, you know, selling whatever they're selling. They're the Mike Ryan, their company. So it's. You also learn.

[A]

It depends on how you approach it. Because also having situations that I met someone at an event, I really connect. And at that point, you're not aligned. Aligned. But you are memorable, some reason. And then their role changed and they brought it up to another opportunity. You never know.

[B]

It happens all the time. And then there's. There's, you know, there's. There's something to be said too for making friends within the industry. Right. You and I travel in the same circles, and we are friendly with some folks that are considered vendors or on the this side of the world. They're not brands and they're certainly not going to be doing any work at pims. But having those relationships built solves the problem of when clients. We're doing work with PIMs and they're like, I need this type of service that's outside of whatever PIMS is offering them. But I have a friend that does that. You know, we work with a.

[A]

When you can really consider people friends because it's not transactional.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You recommend someone because you know that person as a person, as your ethics. That to me is super important. But also what I want to talk to you because you guys do something really. And I think this is led by you. It's not only choosing what events are going to be and what you're going to be sponsoring. You always try to do something different in those events. You are not the one who's going to go to a big show and just have a booth there. Did you try that? Did you find out that they didn't work?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

How was the evolution?

[B]

There is an. There's an organization that's tied in with the PR agencies that for years we used to sponsor with them. And we learned our lesson the hard way. Boy, we used to Pay thousands of dollars and we'd be of a hundred booths in the back by the bathrooms that nobody ever visits. And we'd make up highlighters and pens and chachkes and hope people would walk by. Again, a beautiful lesson learned right? In my youth, as I went to this, you know, all these different cities and presented the PIMS opportunities to people, you quickly realize that, you know, just standing behind a table and pitching your business, certainly that plugs in in some places. Excuse me. But again, just through trial and error and trial and error, many discussions, we decided we need to do a little bit more than that, right? Like, we need to be a part of this. We need to partner with these people that we choose as our partners, and we need to try to get the most out of it. That includes branding, signage, you know, not just behind a booth, but throughout the opportunity. It includes being part of panel discussions, whether that's the host or being a guest. Being at a panel is important, right? It automatically tells the audience a couple things before you start.

[A]

Yeah, it gives you authority.

[B]

You're an authority. You've been vetted out by this, by this company and system that you're talking about to be an authority or an expert on that. And it goes a long way. Right. And it also.

[A]

How do you do it? Because I think you're really good about something, which it's not looking that you pay per play. I was recently at an event that someone asked me for feedback and I was, oh my God, who did the line out for this event? Everything looked paper play. And she was surprised that some of them didn't even pay, but it looked paid. So how can you. That's a gray area. And how you can navigate that.

[B]

Yeah, that's a good question. You know, most of it starts out as pay for play, right? Like you're, you're. They're getting to know you, you're getting to know them. What I usually insist upon before we start partnering with somebody is they're usually trying to talk me into sponsoring an event that they have coming up, right. Somebody may have introduced us or I saw them online or they sent me an. But I'll be talking to the person over there and they want me to get started right away. What I normally say to them is, like, listen, once we start partnering with you, it's long term, right? We're not going to just do this once. We're going to keep doing it multiple times a year. I need to go to the event, so give me a ticket, let me go to the event. Including whatever dinner you have the night before. Let me see the clientele that you attract. Let me rub elbows, let me kick the tires on a little bit and see what it's like and then we'll go from there. Once that's sort of been vetted out and we have decided to move forward, we try to look for what we can do not only in kind, but how we can help them to grow their business too. Right. We're in a great position between the warehousing, the logistics, the fulfillment that we do for clients, that we're able to offer services that a lot of these folks need. Right. Certainly around that event space. So a lot of times we're able to offer certain things, like for the cew, who. I know you're a friend too, and so am I, we love them, we've been partners with them, We've been partners for them for 20 years.

[A]

Well, but also it's again about reputation ethics and you know, that CEW delivers that you're going to go and be with certain quality people at a certain level and it's going to, even if you sponsor them, you're going to. Or like, for example, I'm one of the CEW ambassadors. There is something I, I'm honored that they chose me as an ambassador. It gives me authority, but I'm giving back to them.

[B]

Yeah, it's a two way street. Yeah. And it is a two way street. And they're experts at, you know, knowing the, you know, one of the things that they have going for them is they are the real mainstays in this space. And everybody seems to be a member, everybody wants to be involved. I just went to an event the other night, full house.

[A]

Thing is to be a lot of people thinking that paying a membership is to be involved and that's not being part of a community.

[B]

That's exactly right. I mean, it's like anything else too. You know, networking is just like that. So you can, you know, you can have the job of chief networking officer, but if you're not doing it, if you're not following through, if you're not doing all you can do to make sure that your brand is well represented, forget about the sales end of things, because as a networker, and you are too, you know, we wear many hats, we are salespeople, we are building our brand. We are navigating the pitfalls of conversation.

[A]

Actually, you're always building two brands, your personal brand and the company that you represent.

[B]

That's right. That's right. And like you said, when when you come in and somebody sees you, you know, I've gotten to the point now being so many years in this space and having gone to so many events that a lot of times people will know me. I'm glad about that. And they have expectations of you, right? To like, what are you guys doing here? What's new with pims? They're asking me these questions now because I think we've done such a good job of building brand and getting ourselves out there that these folks know that even the ones that haven't used us before that when they are looking for somebody that handles those type of capabilities, you know, we should call, you know, Mike Ryan, give him a call.

[A]

Well, actually I was talking to someone yesterday that knows you. But anyway, I. But you know what I love about you guys and I think it's happened the same to us as an agency. A lot of people tell us, I want to work with you, I'm not ready for you yet. But they know that we're there and they know that they will find us when they're ready because we are not coming and going.

[B]

I mean, to me that's the ultimate compliment. When people started pims and I'm sort of walking through like the history of pims and while we've done and what we're doing and where we're headed, one of the things I say to them is, you know, if you're pitching somebody on some new business opportunity, if somebody reaches out to you to get an estimate and it doesn't happen, you know, and in closing they say, well, we'll let you know next time. We'll keep you guys front faced. And it's not just jibber jabber. I think they truly do mean it because I wish I tracked from day one what percentage of companies or clients that we give an estimate or we give an opportunity. We're given an opportunity, we quote on it and we don't get it for whatever reason that come back time and time again that use us for different reasons.

[A]

I mean, one of the things that I learn is that people, for example, when I pitch most of the people, nobody said that I wouldn't want to work with them. I cannot afford them, we're not ready for them. But nobody can say that our services is not what they need unless they want something that we don't offer, of course, but that's what.

[B]

But also they're paying for that too. Right? Like you. I think I, I told you this last time I saw you, but like, you have such a good mind for this stuff that having you by my side as a partner is only going to help me. Right. Because I can pick you. I know I can call you and I've done it or text you and pick your brain about something or somebody or some. Something I plan on doing and should I do this or I'm going to go here, are you going? Or what time are you? Like that sort of stuff helps me, enlightens me and makes me better at what I'm doing just from being.

[A]

Exactly. It's like that circle of trust that we always talk about that I. I'm very careful who I recommend because it's my responsibility. And I know that when I recommend someone in my circle, the trust, it's someone that either they're gonna tell me not only thank you, I don't care about money or anything. I want someone who makes me look good. And it will help my client because that will help me grow too. But also what I care is that someone that if I can collaborate in the world that we live today, and that's why we have to evolve. That's how you guys want to evolve. And we'll get to that in a minute. And how our worlds are colliding. What is really important to me is that we can collaborate. I see so many that they. They don't want to help each other. That is the opposite. That it's like, oh, no, we can be a little competition here. Or they are. Or you work with the person that is my competition. So I'm not going to be affiliate with you. And that's just wrong. I want to be able to send a text to one of the other providers and. Or to have them in Slack and say, hey, I'm having this situation. How can we work it out together to help the client?

[B]

You know, I maybe I know on my podcast minutes with Mike, nice plug there. I know on my podcast. And you're an alumni of that podcast.

[A]

I am.

[B]

I hear this one word said a lot. And when I first started hearing it, I just thought it was a buzzword, but now I'm seeing it right. And that word is community. These brands that we deal with and the people within those brands build these communities so that they have that trusted circle of people that they can turn to, which again, going back to the cew, I think they do a really good job of evolving that. But having that. That sense of community in and around their space, whether it's their specific product offering and have a community of those folks or the people that are the CMOs, of company all sort of connecting on what it takes to be a great cmo or in our case, you know, the whole networking world and getting out and sort of rubbing elbows with people. It's not as easy.

[A]

It's about the ethics of being a service provider. You guys have a survey either. I mean I, if I can tell you how many people I talk to, and I'm sure you hear this about your side too, that they had a bad experience with the marketing agency and don't get me started with PL's bad experiences. I think that there is a matching there, but there are people that they just don't care about having a bad reputation. I do.

[B]

Yeah. And you know, as you build your brand and I build mine, that reputation, maybe when I first started, I never even thought about like what, you know, I just wanted to get those projects in and get them done and sell clients. And then after time goes by and you realize that you're only as good as your reputation, Right. We don't deal in contracts. We have no contracts that you sign. You work with PIMS at your, you know, at your behest. Whatever you want to do, whenever you want to do it. So really the only thing that we have that locks us in with clients is our reputation. Our white glove service, the award winning account teams that we have or dealing with. Mike Ryan. These are the things that these people have come to know and trust. Right. And just like your clientele too, like they, they want to have you on their side, right.

[A]

They want you to also something that I have and it seems that I, I'm selling PIMs and it's. I don't get anything about this. You guys out there, you're not going

[B]

to get exposed or anything.

[A]

I'm not an affiliate, but I think for the service industry one of the most important thing is to sometimes not to say yes to everything or to say what the client wants to hear. Like recently I started my substack newsletter and that is called Unpopular Opinions. I know you read it, Mike.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

But I think people really like to hear what I have to say and not always is pleasant. I mean, I said in a nice way, but still, I mean why, why,

[B]

why would you want somebody that's just head nodding and being pleasant, Right? Like I'm friends personally with the people I'm friends with and I've worked at PIMS for 37 years and I've had my friends my whole life because I trust them. Because when things are not right and things are not going well, they'll tell me, here's what you did wrong. Here's what you shouldn't did. You know what you did. And then you want that, right?

[A]

That's.

[B]

That's part of life. But.

[A]

And that's what you're getting in your circle on trust that I was. We were just talking about that. If I see something from your team, I'm going to go and tell to you and you. I hope the same from you because we're trying to help each other. And this type of.

[B]

Yeah, that type of accountability is hard because, you know, egos sometimes get in the way. Everybody has that. You know, I kind of have it sometimes too. The I do. I'm the best at everything. What are you trying to tell me? Once you can step aside from that and really listen to people, that's when you get better at your job.

[A]

But also you. When you can ask the questions, hey, what do you think about the panel that I just did? It could have been something doing better because we are always so immersed in the job that we are doing that sometimes we cannot say it see it from the outside. What I do is super technical. Many times and I say, did I talk in Chinese for people or was I clear enough? So it is. But I want to talk. I know that we are been talking for a long time, but I want to talk how our. You guys started with press release. Now you guys creating this very unique offering that is customer experiences for brands for unboxing. And when I saw you guys first, I'm doing that and I think that's what make me approach you guys because I thought it was so cool and different. It wasn't an event that you guys actually made us create an unboxing experience. And I was, wow, this is different. Why you found this that it was needed to have this service offering?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So we've been to a few events where we offer this sort of look into the unboxing experience where we actually make boxes in a cost. Of course. Great event that we did that at once where, you know, we bring the boxes and we have. What's that?

[A]

It was so fun. Also you got all these executives even sitting on the floor. Are we all like. I felt like we were doing all these kindergarten stuff and we were having fun.

[B]

We have the. Each table gets their own box with their own elements and they have to sort of put together how the box should look when it's sent out and then sort of pitch the idea to the room. It's been a huge success and where it was really Born with was, you know, clients sometimes that we work with for years or decades, right. They come back to us and they say, okay, I know that you guys do the customized influencer send outs. We're going to need some custom packaging on this. I know you guys design and engineer that too. So what, what do I want to do? What, what I want to do is this. And tell me how you do this and you know, why can't we do that? And how do you deal with Hazmat and what if there's alcohol in there? And what's the difference between a tray and foam? And what's tab locking mean? And what's corrugated and how does that work? What's four color printing versus digital printing? Like all these questions came up over and over again.

[A]

So the account team, that's exact. Exactly every reason how our worlds change as a digital world. You know, how, how many times I, or as an agency, I talk to clients and I ask them, how are you gonna need to print this and who's printing it? I don't know, just send it to me. And jpeg. No, I mean it's a completely different file that I need to send. If you're gonna be doing offset that you're gonna be doing digital.

[B]

And now too, you know, as quickly as things change the way that people supply artwork, you know, a lot of it's sort of AI driven now too, how they want the boxes designed. A lot of the approval ratings go through. It's just changing week to month and year to year. Right. So again, building that scenario for our clients to sort of get a peek behind the curtain of what it is that we do day to day in creating these wonderful sendouts, right. That we call it the white glove send out for a reason. And we actually do assemble some of them with white gloves so we don't get fingerprints on them. But each one, you know, Lara will get a package and Mike Ryan will get a package. And they are similar, but they're very different. Right? Customized. Yeah. Shade matching and you know, different apparel sizes and handwritten note cards. You know, that's something we've been doing for a long time. But to be able to do it all in one send out over time, whether it's by picking and packing one off or doing it as a bulk send, it's not easy. And again, that whole learning process behind it. Consultant. In a way.

[A]

Yeah, no, it's so cool. But also because I, I, when I was teaching one of the, I used to teach digital marketing for the fashion industry. One of the things that I had to teach myself also was how much the industry even changed seasons. And so many parts of the fashion industry had to change because of the digital world. Before, when a designer had a new line, they were able to have it for months, do photo shoots, then do the launch. Now, with phones and Internet, they have bloggers, they have pictures, everything is faster. They go into the Internet, so they need to have enough stock to have it ready on.

[B]

That's right. That's right.

[A]

So the world changed so much, and it's so amazing that you guys can still do things custom and work at the speed that they happen at the same time. So those experiences happen in a certain time.

[B]

I mean, we've reinvented ourselves many times over the years, and it usually stems from, you know, shift in technology, what people are looking for, what people are expecting, you know, from the days of press release distribution into the, you know, physical, hard send out of pieces and collateral to being able to track that information for people to be able to go online and see what they have in inventory. And each one of these capabilities was born from a conversation just like this. Again, going back to connecting with clients where somebody would say, we love having stuff in your warehouse. Boy, I would love to be able to log in and see exactly what I have in there. Can it be every sku specific and have little thumbnails and do real time counts? That's how we build those things. We're having conversations now about how AI can adapt and help with things like warehousing and logistics so that the next generation will see those benefits too. Right. We're learning today what we can put in place to help tomorrow. Because if we've learned anything, it's always changing.

[A]

I love that. To close this podcast like, one, we're always changing. And the other thing, you always need to show up in any part of life.

[B]

That's right. That's right.

[A]

Thank you so much for being here. But before you go, I have one more question for you.

[B]

Go ahead.

[A]

How do you drink your coffee?

[B]

I like. I don't like sugar. I like to have a couple of dashes of sort of a creamer, Irish mint, Irish coffee, any kind of like that minty sort of thing. I know I'm alone in that world because it turns some people off, but that's my go to.

[A]

Thank you for sharing and to you guys, I really hope that you learn a lot from this podcast, as I always do, because I think all our guests are fantastic and I will see you next week with more.

[B]

Thanks for having me. Bye, everybody.

[A]

Bye. Find everything you [e-mail] or in the episode notes right below. Don't forget to subscribe. Was so good to have you here today. See you next time. Catch you on the flip side. Ciao. Ciao.