← Coffee N° 5 with Lara Schmoisman
Loading summary
Transcript74 lines
- [00:00]
Niko
Foreign.
- [00:05]
Lara Schmoisman
This is coffee number five. I'm your host, Lara Schmoisman. Hi, everyone. How are you? Happy to be here, having my coffee ready. I'm ready for another great conversation today. I have, as always, a treat for you, but I think this is an extra treat because you got a double. You have a combination here. We always talk about retail, we're talking about founding a brand, but we got today someone I've been wanted to talk for so long, and finally I chased her. I chased her and finally I got her here. So welcome N. How are you? Did I say it right?
- [00:45]
Niko
No, it's Niko, but thank you. Oh, no worries, no worries. It happens all the time. Thank you for having me.
- [00:54]
Lara Schmoisman
So, I mean, I have to ask you how you became a retailer, because from one day to another, there was this woman out there who had a business and was helping a lot of brands and making a lot of brands see the light in the retail world. So how did that happen?
- [01:14]
Niko
Yeah, so I've been a Beauty founder for 23 years. I had a skincare brand that I launched back in 2002 called Nikao that was named after my grandmother, not myself, based on family beauty secrets from Kenya that were passed down to me through my grandmother, who was a coffee farmer and my grandfather, who was a medicine man and many other families.
- [01:37]
Lara Schmoisman
You just said coffee founder, coffee farmer.
- [01:40]
Niko
Yes. Yeah. So she taught me my first beauty recipe using Kenyan coffee grounds from her farm in Kenya. And, you know, fast forward to my working here. I was working in the entertainment industry, and I felt that the continent of Africa was very underrepresented in premium beauty. So at that point, I left my job to start making my grandmother's coffee scrub. That's how it all started. And, you know, I built that business as an independent business and then, you know, had the opportunity to have a lot of stops and starts and fails and wins and ultimately sold that business to Unilever in 2017. And in 2020, I was still working with the brand Nikao inside Unilever. And, you know, we were going through a global pandemic and a big cultural shift in this country. You know, there were many emerging brands that, you know, needed a home to be nurtured. And it was at that point that we decided to create Loon to be this inclusive beauty retail platform where we could celebrate, you know, the best discovery of global beauty beauty brands from all over the world, and to give brands the opportunity to. To start in retail, but to do it at a pace and in an environment where, you know, I knew going into this, you know, what it's like to be a beauty founder and to try to find your first retailer and to.
- [03:09]
Lara Schmoisman
That's hard.
- [03:10]
Niko
Yeah, it's very hard. And I was fortunate that my very first beauty retailer was also an independent boutique. And, and you know, we started obviously it was the pandemic. We started as an online platform, but knew we were always going to be omnich.
- [03:22]
Lara Schmoisman
And so let me ask you a question. When you started, you where how was your mindset? It's like, because in order to be a retailer, you need to either go drop ship or you need to buy quantities from brands.
- [03:39]
Niko
Yeah, no, we wanted to have the entire, you know, name of my retailers, obviously third Loon and we wanted the customer journey to be that of the entire 13 Luna experience. And so, you know, we did, we bring in the inventory, we brought it into our own pl. You know, all of the individual packages went out in our sort of 13 loon branded experience. And, and that was important to me because customer journey and, and you know, I understand drop shipping. I've worked with a lot of retailers that drop ship. But for us in that moment, sort of making our entrance into retail, it was important to, you know, have that customer journey and experience and data in order to scale the business. And so.
- [04:21]
Lara Schmoisman
But that was a very costly adventure for you.
- [04:25]
Niko
Yeah, you know, I mean, a lot of times we were able to onboard brands to the platform on consignment. So while we took a physical position on inventory, we didn't always take a financial position in certain cases. And, and that gave us the opportunity to also test, you know, smaller brands, maybe brands people hadn't heard of, you know, not feeling necessarily the, you know, pressure to, to bring them on and to have that financial responsibility for the inventory, but, but also then to be able to bring them on in consignment, in IT and invest in ways to help grow the brand alongside the brand without, you know, turning those costly experiences of marketing etc over to the brand. So, you know, we grew very slowly too. You know, we started with 13 brands just online in 2020 and then in 2021 we inked a partnership with JCPenney to roll out 13 loon store and stores within 600 plus JCPenney doors. And then in 2023 opened our first independent flagship boutique while also simultaneously launching my second beauty brand, Relevant. And so now we'll get to that.
- [05:39]
Lara Schmoisman
We'll get to that. I'm not forgetting.
- [05:41]
Niko
Yes. And so we started with 13 brands and then over the course of four years grew to be, you know, just over 150 brands on our platform.
- [05:48]
Lara Schmoisman
That's incredible. So today 13 Loon, it's online. And how many stores do you have out there?
- [05:55]
Niko
Yes, so we have our flagship store here in Los Angeles on Larchmont Boulevard and then we have 608 points of distribution. Were 13 Lund store and stores inside JCPenney Beauty.
- [06:07]
Lara Schmoisman
That's a, that's an incredible journey. Why JCPenney and why you think that is a good fit for those brands? That. How was that experience of creating that partnership? Because that's very unique too.
- [06:21]
Niko
Yes. I mean, you know, obviously we were, we were startup and for all intents and intents and purposes, you know, JCPenney Beauty was a startup at the same time, you know, their Sephora had lived inside JCPenney for, for over a decade. And so they were starting out on their own beauty journey as we were starting out on our beauty journey. And I think, you know, what I was excited about within the partnership was the ability to align with like minded partners who were really working to, you know, in our case, bring the discovery aspect of these 13 loon brands from all over the globe in serving a very diverse consumer group. And that's always been sort of at the heart of everything. JCPenney was built on, you know, serving America's, you know, diverse families. And so here we had brands from Africa and South Asia, East Asia, all over Latin America, et cetera, that we were carrying at 13 lune. And so it felt with such a diverse audience within the JCPenney community to be a really good fit for us.
- [07:28]
Lara Schmoisman
Before you launched 13 Loon, did you do any market research to feel comfortable making this investment, creating this platform? Because creating a platform just for the amount of inventory that you have and working with so many different brands, it's not easy. I'm telling you guys how they are. It's a lot of work.
- [07:48]
Niko
Yeah.
- [07:48]
Lara Schmoisman
And also being the three pl, shipping, logistics, it's a lot of work.
- [07:55]
Niko
Yes, it is. I mean, I think because I had been on the other side of retail as a vendor for so long within, you know, some of, you know, everything from Ulta to Target and many independent boutiques. In my journey, I understood the customer journey through being a vendor. And so, you know, the market research I'd had as being a vendor within many retailers was just life experience. And then I also had the opportunity to launch my previous brand on Goop and was really inspired by platforms like Goop and Violet Gray and the storytelling aspect of, you know, editorially, you know, bringing in their guests, their followers, their community into the storytelling aspect. And so I knew from the experience of being not only a vendor at GOOP and having my original brand at goop, but also.
- [08:46]
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah, go ahead.
- [08:47]
Niko
Yeah, but also, you know, how exciting it was to not only be able to shop a platform, but to really become strong as a community member and through the platform and through the storytelling. And so, you know, that inspiration.
- [09:00]
Lara Schmoisman
Can you explain a little more about what you mean by storytelling? And also I think something very unique is how you were showcasing the founder's history.
- [09:09]
Niko
Yes.
- [09:10]
Lara Schmoisman
And that's, I think it's huge part of the storytelling. And also I think that you made help made a shift in the beauty industry that make honing in a lot more. Who is the founder and the why behind the brand?
- [09:24]
Niko
Yeah, I mean I've always said that I believe that people buy into people before they buy into products. And you know, the beauty industry very saturated. And so your why becomes very important before you know, a customer acquisition. And the best way for anybody shopping online or even in store is to, to know your why. Why your brand, why your products, what do you stand for as well as the efficacy is to be able to tell the story. And so, you know, the platform was the original way of launching because we knew on top of curating these amazing brands, it would give us an opportunity and the brand founders an opportunity to share of themselves and that helps to make beauty shopping more meaningful. When you feel like you're getting to know a founder, getting to understand their reason, what they're passionate about, why they use certain ingredients, how those ingredients work, you know, historically, culturally, why those ingredients or products speak to them. It just makes it a, I think a better customer journey because you feel very invested in how you're spending your dollars when, when you're getting all of the information, not just something that you're sort of influenced in an ad by. And, and that's where you see the repeat because the consumer becomes very invested in the, not only supporting the brand, but enjoying a brand that they're, they're achieving the results that they want. They won't come back if the products don't work. But when they feel invested in the journey of the brands life, it really helps to, to retain that consumer and to build community which is really at the heart of everything that we do at Loon.
- [11:00]
Lara Schmoisman
In one of my previous episodes, I think it went out like two weeks ago, three weeks ago with Kate Fanning, we were talking about the retail experience and that's a completely different level. Why do you feel like people are going to the retail stores instead of buying online? Are they looking for expertise? Are you looking to try products or to discover new products? What's your experience of the difference between the consumer that buys online and in retail?
- [11:29]
Niko
Yeah, I mean, you know, we were a company that were, you know, we were born as a platform in 2020 because we were. It was the middle of a global pandemic. And as I said earlier, we always knew we were going to be Omnichannel. And I think, you know, and I know this is something that we achieve within our 13 lun flagship. And. And wherever we show up is that we create a space, space that's not just about shopping, it's about community. And so, you know, I'll speak of 13 Lune flagship specifically. You know, we're constantly eventing both within the beauty industry and out. You know, we have bath sound baths and we have book launches and we have, you know, amazing events, community events that bring people in to the store. Because I do believe that people want to be together. Even in 2020, when everybody was so worried that retail was dead and nobody would ever go back into stores, I never believed that to be true. And I was already.
- [12:22]
Lara Schmoisman
I think we were like, actually desperate to go back into.
- [12:27]
Niko
And. And so, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, there's the convenience of the online experience. Obviously, I shop a lot online, but I really do enjoy being in community with others, I think, and being able to look and feel and touch and have services, you know, even within our flagship store. Damone Roberts, the celebrity brow artist, has his salon inside our store. So it. It's not just about shopping, it's about experiencing beauty. You know, one of the women that works at the stores also are in house makeup artists. So, you know, if I have an event, I go to the store, I have Kim do my makeup and get to use all of these amazing brands that we've curated. Get to use my own brand, Relevant, to get my makeup done, but to do it in a space that's fun, you know, and I think that is the difference. I think that a lot of times people will discover something in store and then. And then replenish online, but having the opportunity to connect with the consumer at shelf, I think is something that's irreplaceable. So why.
- [13:26]
Lara Schmoisman
To create another brand? Why?
- [13:28]
Niko
Why did I create Relevant?
- [13:29]
Lara Schmoisman
Yes. Why you. Why you found that? Because there are a lot of. I always believe that there is always room for a new brand, at least. And if there is a reason for it.
- [13:39]
Niko
Yes, yes. Yeah. So the reason for Relevant, I mean, obviously I had sold Nikao to Unilever and so when I left there, I mean, I'd been a Beauty founder for 18 years at that point now, 23 years. And, and it was, it was, it was what I do, it was what I love. It was an also another vehicle for storytelling for me through product. And you know, Relevant for me was a real culmination of those, you know, by the time relevant launch, 20 years of beauty experience where I got to take the authentic part of what makes me me and what made Nikao the beauty brand Nikao really resonate with my cultural existence while also delivering on efficacious products and bringing that into Relevant and carrying that through my family's amazing impact on my life and these rich resources that come from all over the globe, which is obviously a passion of mine, but then also getting to use all that I learned over eight, I've worked with some of the best chemists in the world since I started as an indie brand out of my apartment in 2002. I've had the opportunity to meet some of the greatest perfumers, work with some of the best makeup artists. And so it allowed me to kind of grow up into, into this new brand. And you know, Relevant is our in house, incubated brand. And for any retailer, you know, platform or otherwise, one of the strongest things that you can do for your business is to get to an owned brand or multiple owned brands. They're your highest margin driver within your assortment. And so while we treat all our brands with love and we don't over prioritize, Relevant, Relevant is our highest margin driver by way of margin at shelf. And so it's a combination of. Of course I was going to create another beauty brand. I'm a beauty brand founder. I love it, it's my passion. But by creating 13 Loon, I was finally able to align my passion with my purpose, which was not only being a brand founder, but also bringing other founders along on the journey with me.
- [15:39]
Lara Schmoisman
So what's your, what's your inspiration for Relevant and what do you think it makes her different? I mean, I'm talking about her like it's a girl. Your friend? Yeah.
- [15:49]
Niko
No, I mean, she's a baby to me. She's one of my babies. Yeah. No, I mean, I think, you know, the biggest point of difference for Relevant really comes from that, you know, storytelling, authentic storytelling aspect, which is, you know, I'd been in the industry for almost two decades when I created Relevant. I was able as a consumer to remember moments of feeling somewhat left out at shelf. I believe that, you know, I always want to debunk the myth that people of color don't make products for everyone just like everyone else. And so even with my first brand, I had a very, very diverse consumer group and sold into a lot of high end retail, et cetera. And I wanted to create a brand within Relevant, which is skincare, fragrance and now recently, over the past year, skin first color cosmetics that would help people to better feel seen at shelf. And I knew what it was like to go to counter and you know, maybe there was a brand that was making deeper shades, but they weren't making deeper shades considering that people, everybody has melanin, obviously.
- [16:47]
Lara Schmoisman
Obviously.
- [16:48]
Niko
But those of us that have more melanin, we're not a monolith, we don't all have the same undertone to our skin. And so I wanted to go deeper, whether it be in my formulations for skin care, to make sure they were melanin safe for all, whether it was within fragrance, formulating it at a level that would last on more melanin rich skin for everybody to use. And even within my color cosmetics, within my complexion range, I have 36 colors. But my deepest shade.
- [17:15]
Lara Schmoisman
That's what I want to ask. I mean you have tons of colors.
- [17:18]
Niko
Yeah, yeah, 36 shades. We work with the six different levels of tonality in skin. Our deepest shades are our number one through six. Our most fair shades are number 30 through 36. So it was also gave me an opportunity to hyper prioritize a consumer that had maybe felt out, felt left out and, and not considered something sometimes at shelf, myself included, while still including all just making sure people got, you know, a little extra love. Knowing that everything that I create I want to, I want to make sure.
- [17:50]
Lara Schmoisman
That everyone, I even struggle to find a shade that fits me. Some are too pink, too yellow too. It's hard to find something that you feel like it resonates with you and gives you the look that you want. And. But I want to ask you a question about when you start creating. When I work with founders or founders that they're starting, starting, I'm always ask them what do you see yourself in the shelf between what products? Because you definitely want to have a packaging. And I think that's the hardest part, honestly to be a. Of course you need to have a great formula and all that because that's where people will come back to you. But to create a packaging that will resonate with you, that you can get the right moqs that, the right pricing, and to get the right messaging to your ideal customer. So how did you go about that?
- [18:50]
Niko
Yeah, I mean, I, you know, had in my early days, you know, very somewhat limited budgets. I mean, my very first logo, I took a box of crayons and sort of drew my own stripe, my own sort of flag for Nikao, and then went to a label maker to help me make it a graphic that I could then go to, you know, back to the label maker to print and deliver labels to my manufacturer. Right. It can all be done even in a grassroots way with Relevant. You know, it sort of goes back to the why of Relevant and the experience of creating Relevant. I've built these relationships over the years and was able to, you know, raise the capital so that I could work with the, you know, I, I conceived what I wanted. I knew I wanted it to have a lot of color. I felt like so many premium skincare and, and cosmetics brands really lean into black and white and gray and white, and I wanted color and I wanted gold. And I was creating all of this too, at the same time as 13 loon during the pandemic. And I, you know, had the autonomy and, and the agency and the support and the capital to do it in the way that I wanted to do it for the first time ever, really, as, as a brand founder. And, and that is not lost on me that that is a, a huge gift and a huge blessing and a huge privilege. But, you know, I worked really, really hard to get to that place, and it took 20 years. It doesn't always happen overnight that, you know, you're gonna snap your fingers and be able to work with the best branding agency or go into the top retailers. You know, it's, it's a journey, but every part of the dream.
- [20:28]
Lara Schmoisman
I was talking today with someone in the beauty industry, and the beauty industry seems like really big, but it's not that big. And you never burn bridges and you really need to play nice.
- [20:41]
Niko
Absolutely.
- [20:42]
Lara Schmoisman
And know what is around you and support each other. Like, I, I was talking to another marketing agency owner that we really support each other. And it's like, why others trying to compete. I don't get it.
- [20:56]
Niko
I mean, I think it's, it's, you know, it's the old age saying of, like, hurt people, hurt people. Right. So whether it be being competitive or tearing your retailer down or tearing another brand down or, you know, acting as if there's not room for all of us, that there is is, you know, it's just noise. And it is true that relationships mean everything. And I think I've had. I've had every version of story, and I'm grateful for it. Right. I've had the best support system. I'm still very, very close to many of my founder friends that I've had for years. I've had the greatest mentors. And building a brand, you know, find your mentors and then as you grow and as you scale, be a mentor, I mean, that's really important to me.
- [21:46]
Lara Schmoisman
It's a responsibility that you need to give back.
- [21:50]
Niko
Absolutely. And honestly, I find that when I'm, you know, mentoring or advising young brands as they're getting started, it renews that passion in me. So you're getting as much out of it in those moments because you're. It's almost like validating about why you love it so much while you're helping others, maybe not to make the mistakes that you've made, they'll make their own mistakes. But, you know, I think, you know, as I sit here, you know, almost, gosh, 2002, 25, 23 years in, it's what I have learned to be true, is that relationships sometimes have a season and sometimes they last a lifetime. And the same applies to the relationships that you make within the industry. The ones that are meant to be there and you grow together and you support one another, they last a lifetime. And the others, it doesn't really matter. They last a season. And then you learn, you know what?
- [22:53]
Lara Schmoisman
And it's so hecky to move on from relationships.
- [22:57]
Niko
It's important that you do. It's important that you move on when a relationship when doesn't serve you and being in relationship with the other person doesn't serve them. And, and that's not even just in our personal relationships. That is very, very much so. In our business relationships, you have to treat them like a marriage or treat them like a dating relationship. And. And when it becomes unhealthy, you move on. Yeah.
- [23:21]
Lara Schmoisman
There is something that I learn about relationships. And this in any kind of relationship, when you're dealing with issues is like, for example, if I'm fighting with my husband, I'm fighting because he didn't put the cap in the right place. If the problem expands, we should keep married or not, then we have a different kind of problems.
- [23:43]
Niko
Right, Right.
- [23:43]
Lara Schmoisman
So you need to be really conscious of what are your points in contact of disagreement, these silly things. But if escalates another another level, it's okay. This is another relationship issue and it's a Relationship that is not serving you.
- [24:01]
Niko
Correct.
- [24:02]
Lara Schmoisman
I have something you said early on in the podcast today, that you made mistakes and you fell. I see that there are a lot of brand founders, how they are, that they feel like they're failing because they are not selling. I call it the urgency, and they get it in the desperation mode. What's your message for them?
- [24:22]
Niko
You know, I mean, I've probably said this on every single podcast I've ever been on, but, you know, I. I have evolved into having a really healthy relationship with. I really do believe that, you know, and I use this example a lot that, you know, when my children learned to ride a bike and they would fall, I didn't say that they were failures. I said the only failure was not getting back up on the bike. And I'm a founder. I'm a human being. I'm a woman that's had a lot of opportunity to fall down. But I do believe that resilience is my superpower. And so I always just get back up. And I've learned to get back up more gracefully every time because I understand that redirection is protection. And so, you know, what I would say is, welcome the redirection. Right. I think sometimes, especially as entrepreneurs, as founders, will get really, really excited about, whether it be a product or a retail relationship, even a hire, a business partner, whatever it is that you get really, really excited and you run headfirst into it, and that's okay. Because part of the beauty of being an entrepreneur is our excitement and our passion and really strong instincts. Right?
- [25:32]
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah.
- [25:33]
Niko
If, you know, using product, for instance, if you, you know, feel very, very passionately about a product and you put it out there and it's not resonating with your consumer in the way that it resonates with you. It doesn't mean that that product is a failure. It just means that you might have to redirect it. If it's a fragrance, you might have to find another note that is maybe more commercial. If it's, you know, I also don't believe, and I believe that we are all inspired by one another, but I don't, you know, I don't believe in just doing something because it's, you know, lips are hot right now. Don't just go spend a lot of money to make a bunch of lip balms because you see these brands also.
- [26:10]
Lara Schmoisman
Because you are five minutes too late.
- [26:12]
Niko
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Unless it's something you're super passionate about. And, you know, I've had that happen before where I think I Have some out of the box idea to create something and then I see something similar that comes to market before I get my product to market. But that doesn't mean that I'm not still passionate about.
- [26:29]
Lara Schmoisman
You're doing it for different reasons. One thing is if you do it because you're passionate and another thing, if you're doing it because of money.
- [26:35]
Niko
Exactly. Exactly. And honestly, I do believe that some of the best advice that I've ever gotten is if it doesn't work, it's okay, move on. Like, you know, you're strong enough to move on sometimes. Is that hard? A hundred percent. And then I. The last thing I would say about failure, especially, you know, for many founders, you know, especially in the last couple of years, the market's been tough. You know, retail's taken a real hit. The economy. Anytime there's an election year, things get wacky, you know, and I think sometimes failure is not your fault. It's just. It just happens to happen. You know, access to capital is real. There are so many more brands in the market trying to fight for investment. Sometimes you go through an investment year where all anybody cares about is AI.
- [27:28]
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah.
- [27:28]
Niko
And they don't care about consumer goods. Right. And then it'll come back.
- [27:32]
Lara Schmoisman
Failure sometimes is only getting you ready for what is next for you.
- [27:37]
Niko
For something even better. And every time I've fallen down and gotten back up on that metaphorical bike, it's always taken me to a much better place.
- [27:45]
Lara Schmoisman
Absolutely.
- [27:46]
Niko
I've had very recent fall down moments, even within 13 loon. And. And I'm so much happier now on the other side of it. And that is a testament to just learn how to get up gracefully. That's the best thing you can do in failure.
- [28:03]
Lara Schmoisman
Amazing. Well, thank you so much for having coffee with me. This was amazing.
- [28:08]
Niko
Thank you so much. I'm so happy that we finally got to make it happen. And thank you for having me.
- [28:13]
Lara Schmoisman
Thank you. And to you guys, I will see you with something new next week with more coffee number five. Thank you. Find everything you need at Lara schmoisman.com or in the episode notes right below. Don't forget to subscribe. Was so good to have you here today. See you next time. Catch you on the flip side. Ciao, ciao.