Lara Schmoisman (3:35)

That's very nice of you to say that.

Chelsea Grayson (3:38)

So, so I, you know, and then I was recruited to leave Jones Day when I, as a partner, I was recruited to join American Apparel as the general counsel. And hopefully everybody out there remembers American Apparel. It was just an iconic Los Angeles based brand. What? Really, I remember, yeah, one of the few brands, one of the few companies at that time that was publicly traded but also headquartered in Los Angeles, you know. You know, I think at the time there were maybe just two other companies. Now there's a whole bunch. So we were really groundbreaking in that respect. And American Apparel was also the rare vertically integrated textile manufacturer. So we had seven manufacturing and warehouse and distribution facilities all in and around downtown Los Angeles. We made everything, starting from the thread. I mean, even we made some dye. You know, we had no.

Lara Schmoisman (4:31)

I mean, you guys were so such a staple on the American textile industry too.

Chelsea Grayson (4:36)

Absolutely. You know, we were the largest employer aside from the LAPD at that point. You know, really we had 7,500 textile manufacturing workers that were all immigrants and they were all here because of that company. And so it was a really special culture of the company. And it's hard to. I think the barriers to entry for a company like that today are so high that you just couldn't rebuild it. But I was asked to come in and be the general counsel. And after about a year of successfully being the general counsel there, we, Goldman Sachs asked me to throw my hat in the ring to become the CEO. And ultimately they promoted me to the CEO position. And I ran the company for a few years and we beautified it to go to the market and sold it to another big public company called Gildan. And then Goldman Sachs called me and said, hey, you want to do it all over again? Because we Also own True Religion and we'd like for you to come in and be the CEO there. I'm cutting out a whole bunch of detail, of course. So I ran True Religion for a couple of years. Really fortunate to do that because True Religion, as you know, is yet another iconic Los Angeles based brand. Also had been public before, headquartered still in Los Angeles, Manhattan beach, and was just really iconic in a totally different part of Los Angeles culture. American Apparel was much more, you know, much more sort of a bohemian vibe. We were sort of skims before skims happened. We were Coachella really, you know, True Religion was much more hip hop culture.

Lara Schmoisman (6:03)

Yeah. More urban.

Chelsea Grayson (6:04)

Yeah. So we, we would do not. Not Coachella, but we'd do Rolling Loud, you know, if that gives you any indication of where things sat. So that was super fun. Really interesting. I had a real passion for that and I loved the culture of that company. And then ultimately left just before COVID and decided the third chapter of my career was going to be sitting on boards. Mostly, mostly public company boards. One of the public companies whose boards I joined was Spark Networks, which is a NASDAQ company that owned a bunch of dating apps like JDate and Silver Single and Elite Single and Zoosky which was on Sex and the City. The reboot and couple of years, a few years into sitting on that board, they asked me to drop in and be the CEO. So I ran that company for about a year. Very unexpectedly, I sort of thought I was done with running companies, but that was fun because a tech company and a different exchange, you know, so that was a real learning experience. The company was headquartered in Berlin and so I was back and forth to Berlin a lot that year. But we ultimately sold that to the lender and once we got done with that, we. I just returned to just my. The third chapter of my career which I'm now firmly entrenched in, which is sitting on boards of directors. So I currently sit on the board of two public companies. One, Exponential Fitness, which is the largest global franchisor of boutique fitness and wellness brands. I sit on the board of Beyond Meat Plant based food company, the most successful plant based food company in the industry. I sit on the board of two private companies, Bedrock Manufacturing, which is the owner of Shinola Detroit, the watch company and Filson 1897. And then I sit on the board of Sunrider International, which is a big Chinese herb based health and wellness company in the MLM space. So yeah, that's.

Lara Schmoisman (7:44)

It's an incredible journey. And so what we were talking today, we were Talking about the noise of outgrowing companies and what are the things that you can pinpoint as being the biggest noise right there out there that are not helping companies grow. I can tell you just from my side, I can see it from marketing side, but I see just a little piece of the equation.

Chelsea Grayson (8:10)

Yeah, so, yeah, so the things that are just not helpful to a company as they're trying to grow and scale, Is that what you're asking? Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah. Some of the things that will drag a company down is making too many hires too quickly just because you had one little growth spurt, you had a good season, had a good year, whatever. I think companies get really fat really quickly. And it's also really easily easy to dole out bonuses and dole out equity packages, you know, when things are riding high. But everything is cyclical. There's never just a straight line to growth and scale. So you really got to let your company take a lap around the sun, you know, before you decide that you're going to make big expenditures. Because truly the most painful thing to do as a leader, the worst thing to do as a leader is when you have to reduce force, when you have to do layoffs. We've all had to do it, but it's just such an awful thing to go through and it exposes you to liability potentially. And so better to avoid that if you can. So I think that's one trap that companies fall into. I think another trap that retailers in particular fall into is expanding the brick and mortar footprint too quickly. It feels really sexy again once you start having a little bit of cash and maybe you got an infusion from your investors. And boy, I want to see my name all over the place. I want to see it in Beverly Hills and Century City. I want to go to New York and see it in Manhattan. I want to see my name in Chicago. So I'm going to lay down a brick and mortar footprint that's super broad, that gets really expensive.

Lara Schmoisman (9:37)

I have, I have a question for you and I totally agree with you that it gets really expensive. And we'll go into that.

Chelsea Grayson (9:43)

Yeah.

Lara Schmoisman (9:43)

It's what it says to a brand. That is something I see in Brad's. Trying to be everywhere.

Chelsea Grayson (9:49)

Yeah, yeah. And you can't be everything for everybody. But it's not even so much about that. It really is just about getting into these leases that for the most part are going to be long term leases. They're going to be expensive to buy yourself out of. Sometimes the only way to get out of A bad lease to File A Chapter 11 bankruptcy, nobody wants that. And so better to hold off. If you need a flagship here, if you need a flagship there, okay, maybe. But for the most part, D2C is really the way to go while you're growing, you know, D2C and also wholesale through something like a Revolve or you know, any other online, you know, retail D2C platform, you know, better to be more disciplined in that respect. I think the other mistake that companies make is not hiring a really sharp CMO or a group of folks in your marketing department that have Martech that are, you know, marketing technology, that are performance marketing based. I think brand marketing is fun and you need to do all of that, you know, but taking that content and weaponizing it pixel for pixel in the right way, minute by minute, every single day. If you don't have a team that's fresh and can do that, and I'm talking about like 25 year olds because they're state of the art, they know all the things you don't want.

Lara Schmoisman (10:58)

I love you for just saying that because it's so important that people know me. I don't believe, I feel like we destroy the world branding that branding is not anymore. We cannot say it's all about the image of the company is branding is part of your strategy and your growth strategy. And you cannot separate branding from growth.

Chelsea Grayson (11:21)

Absolutely. You know, you hit the nail on the head. So, you know, just weaponizing content properly spend the money to do it, it'll be worth it. And you can track that ROI. That's the great thing about MarTech. For every dollar you spend, you can see exactly how many dollars come back for that $1. And all day long you can have somebody pushing and pulling the levers, making decisions about what to do and where to go, you know, and it's so easy. I mean, even for me, I look at one haul from Revolve or something on Instagram on my reels and now all my reels are hauls from Revolve. You know, it's very easy for folks to do that these days. So. And people know that, you know, so I think, I think it's a pitfall not to spend that, you know, to spend that money. And finally I would say that once your company starts, little bit get away from your board of advisors, whatever that is, that's nothing. Make a real board, put a true board together. Those are the cheapest high level advisors you're ever going to get. Much cheaper than consultants because you're paying them Whatever you're paying them, if it's an early Stage Private Company, 75 grand, 100 grand a year, whatever. But you're going to get dedicated 247 service from those folks. And if you do it right, they're all people who have been CEOs at companies that you aspire to be and they're there to serve you. So put together a good board of directors as soon as you possibly can.

Lara Schmoisman (12:39)

That's really an amazing advice. But let's talk for a second for brands that they're just starting and maybe they are not having all the budget. I was talking this morning to a brand which I started and they tell me, oh, I spent too much money in ads and it didn't go anywhere.

Chelsea Grayson (12:59)

They get it wrong.

Lara Schmoisman (13:01)

Huh?

Chelsea Grayson (13:02)

They did it wrong.

Lara Schmoisman (13:03)

They did wrong, of course, because they just put the money in ads, nothing else.

Chelsea Grayson (13:08)

Exactly. It's.

Lara Schmoisman (13:09)

You can just not do one piece. You need to make sure that you are connecting all the platforms and everything is working for you. So, yeah, of course they're not gonna come and buy the first time they see a product.

Chelsea Grayson (13:22)

Exactly.

Lara Schmoisman (13:23)

You need to be everywhere and they need to see you everywhere, all the time. Yeah, but it's not. And also with smaller budgets, they're not gonna happen overnight. You're gonna have to spend for a while until you start seeing return of investment.

Chelsea Grayson (13:35)

Yes. And if they're not seeing it, they don't have the right people doing it. They need to fire those people and get new people and then get new people. And then get new people. You got. There's a way to make it and do it right. There's companies out there that are making a ton of cash, you know. Yeah, but. But you hit the nail on the head again. You know, you have to be everywhere, all the time. I need to see that. Those, that's those brown suede stiletto mules constantly, everywhere, until all of a sudden I'm sort of like, it's inevitable. I've got to buy those, I've got to see.

Lara Schmoisman (14:06)

I know you're dreaming about it. You see yourself in the, in your.

Chelsea Grayson (14:10)

Dream wearing them, Right?

Lara Schmoisman (14:12)

Yeah.

Chelsea Grayson (14:13)

And you know, and so I agree with you. I think if they're not seeing the results, then they're just not doing it right and they need to rejigger.

Lara Schmoisman (14:20)

People love us in the position that we are today because there is this big thing talk about. I know, and probably most of our audience know what I think about this now, but I really make a separation nowadays in what is an influencer, what is A content creator and what is a brand ambassador for?

Chelsea Grayson (14:40)

Sure.

Lara Schmoisman (14:40)

And I think one of them is going out. So what do you think?

Chelsea Grayson (14:45)

I think that's right. I think influencers, if you're going to characterize yourself like that, you're probably going to be unemployed in a year. I think you're right. Content creators and brand ambassadors, these folks who are truly entrenched with these brands and they're creating and they understand how to create beautiful content. I mean, my goodness, some of the gorgeous stuff you see out here, just even flipping through reels, you know, and I know that's like a 50 year old talking because most people are over on TikTok, but just flipping through this stuff, you're sort of like, why would you ever need to hire an ad agency again? You know, some of these people can create beautiful content. They've got their LTK links right there. They're all really savvy with that, you know, flips you right to it. And there's 8 million different ways to get to what it is. And then they all get. The really key part is the technology is finally sophisticated enough to remunerate those folks. So if you go from their link to whatever Zara buy that thing, they're going to get remunerated because it goes right back to them. And you don't have to enter any kind of promote codes or anything like that. The system is finally set up in exactly the right way to properly incentivize them and they're out of here.

Lara Schmoisman (15:51)

You know, I, absolutely, I. This is something, being a brand ambassador, creating people and give them skin in the game. Like if we're doing well, you're doing well too.

Chelsea Grayson (16:00)

That's right. And we're going to have beautiful events that we're going to invite you, we're going to send you stuff, we're going to. Yeah, it's all, it's all part of a really beautiful ecosystem that finally is hitting its stride. And it wasn't doing that when I was back at True Religion, American Apparel. We wished for some of the stuff.

Lara Schmoisman (16:14)

Oh my God, that would have been so amazing for those two brands.

Chelsea Grayson (16:18)

Amazing. Yeah.

Lara Schmoisman (16:19)

Yes.

Chelsea Grayson (16:19)

So. But yeah, it's a really beautiful time we're living in right now for retail.

Lara Schmoisman (16:23)

Yeah, absolutely. So how do you feel about all these brands that now they're celebrity brands? Do you think that it's a trend, a fad?

Chelsea Grayson (16:32)

I think that sometimes it works. Like Hayley, you know, Hailey Bieber, you look at Rhodes Beauty and she sold it and she's going to continue on there in a transition services agreement for a couple of years. I think she truly, she created something on her own. She had like two products, you know, and she pushed it. She had a following that was so engaged with her that whatever she was telling them to buy, they were buying it. So that's a success story. Conversely, I can think of. I'm not going to name any names because I don't want a lawsuit, but I think of a celebrity that was connected to one of the boards I sat on. We had a celebrity that had approached us and wanted to create their own product line under our umbrella. This was a celebrity that had a massive, massive. One of the biggest followings on social media at that time. Still does. So we sort of thought, well, gosh, how can we lose? And so we did the deal and created the product with this person and it was a total flop. And the reason was because we hadn't looked properly. The celebrity had followers who loved this celebrity but didn't have the po, didn't have the wallet and didn't have the inclination to spend when the celebrity told them to spend. They would go see the celebrity when the celebrity performed, but they weren't necessarily engaged in what the celebrity wanted them to buy because it was just wasn't aspirational enough for them or they just didn't have the wallet. The group that was following this person just didn't have the spending power. So the product was a flop. We ended up spinning the whole thing off. So I think it really depends on what the engagement of the, of the celebrity is and what have they cultivated. If you've come up on the side of I'm aspirational on what you want to be, first you start just selling other folks products, but then you create something yourself and now they've. It's inevitable for that follower. They have no choice but to buy it. That's powerful. If it's a celebrity that came up as an artist and they've just kind of been doing their thing. I don't know, I, you know, I feel like.

Lara Schmoisman (18:32)

Do you think that for example, because you're a celebrity, you can have it get away of creating a lower quality product?

Chelsea Grayson (18:40)

No, I don't. And I think that's been proven time and time again. I think celebrities that do that, they might sell out of their first drop, but then the reviews, they're people are very vocal online and they have no problem expressing their opinion. And then they also don't do the thing that you want them to do. And you know this as a Marketer as a marketing executive, the, the most lucrative and cheapest customer you can have is the repeat return customer. First, they cost nothing. The first customer, the first time buyer is so expensive to acquire. So if you don't have something sticky, if you don't have a product that's sticky, you're screwed. They're not going to get that repeat business. So if you have something cheap, you're just never going, you'll, you'll make money on the first drop and you'll never make money again. So no, I don't think they can get away with it. I think you look at something like skims is a really good example. That's a beautiful, high quality product. People cannot, I mean every time she drops something, you go to the store right here in, in weho and I'm in Los Angeles. I mean it's packed all the time, there's lines. I mean it's like the Apple Store, you know, that's because she's taken time to make a product that reflects her personally, but also to make a product that's super high quality, that's going to last like American Apparel, you know, the hand is beautiful, it's. And that's why she's actually established a real brand and not just a flash in the pan kind of goodbye thing.

Lara Schmoisman (19:57)

You know, if seeing the beauty, fashion, wellness industry today, what do you think is going to happen next year? What do you think, what's coming next in the industries keeping where at the time of this recording we are in June 2025 when we're still talking about tariffs.

Chelsea Grayson (20:16)

Yeah, it's really hard. Yeah, really hard.

Lara Schmoisman (20:19)

So knowing this industry right now and in the moment of our internationally, not even in our country, how, how do you predict, what do you predict for the industry?

Chelsea Grayson (20:30)

You know, it's hard because they've been talking about, well, there's a downturn in the economy coming. It's coming, it's coming, it's. There's going to be another recession, a mini recession or whatever. And I think that's probably true. War never, never makes anybody want to spend money. You know, kind of a skirmish breaking out in the Middle east as we're talking. And the tariff situation is so mercurial, who the heck knows where it's going to land. But people don't like unpredictability one way or the other, you know. But right now the markets are up. I mean today is Juneteenth, so the markets are closed. But yesterday the markets were generally up and you don't yet see People tightening their pocketbook and holding on to their cash. The travel industry is still generally robust as we're talking today. People are still buying things to go on their travels as we're sitting here talking today. So it feels a little bit like the consumer is putting their head in the sand like an ostrich and sort of ignoring it because they still want to continue to live their beautiful life.

Lara Schmoisman (21:33)

But do you think brands should be planning to make less expensive products?

Chelsea Grayson (21:39)

No, I don't think less expensive is ever the solution unless you're, you know, one of these. You're just known for making less expensive stuff that people wear once and that's it. I actually think that if I was going to give guidance to brands, I would say reduce the number of SKUs that you currently have and that you're planning to have next year. Focus on your core products with a couple of pops, couple of special, you know, hero products here and there just to bring people in and, you know, focus less on, again, innovation, R and D and more on what you truly think is going to be your meat and potato core spend. What's going to bring people in? What are they going to always have to spend money on? Because these are the basics with a little bit of fun mixed in. And where are your highest margin products, you know, so don't, I don't know, you know, don't try to kind of fill your stores with everything new, new, new all the time. You know, resist the pressure to do that and that'll sort of be a safety net for you at least for the first half of next year. And then you can rejigger if you feel like the economy has remained robust, you know, and hopefully it will. I'm pulling, I'm pulling for, especially our economy, you know, pulling for us. I want us to succeed because we've been through some chaos recently.

Lara Schmoisman (22:50)

We sure have.

Chelsea Grayson (22:51)

Yeah.

Lara Schmoisman (22:52)

Well, thank you so much, Chelsea. It was great having you here and thank you so much for all the knowledge and for sharing.

Chelsea Grayson (22:59)

This was a real pleasure and delight. Thank you so much.

Lara Schmoisman (23:02)

And to you guys, thank you for being here with me one more time. And I will see you next week with coffee number five. Find everything you need at larashmoisman.com or in the episode notes right below. Don't forget to subscribe. Was so good to have you here today. See you next time. Catch you on the flip side. Ciao, ciao.