← Coffee N° 5 with Lara Schmoisman
Loading summary
Transcript55 lines
- [00:00]
A
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to coffee number five. And today I have a treat for you. I know that we've been talking about TikTok for a while now. You know that I became TikTok shop partners, but I always believe in talking to people that they know more than me and that I can learn from them. And I'm so grateful that Leslie ann Hull from Ice Media is joining us today to talk about TikTok and TikTok shop. Actually. Leslie, welcome first and thank you. And you were one of the first agencies and that you became TikTok shop partner.
- [00:41]
B
Yeah, that's correct. So Iced Media is a TikTok shop partner. We are one of the first TikTok shop partners here in the U.S. we also are a TikTok marketing partner. So just to give context to that, there's about 2,000 independent agencies buying ads on TikTok and only about a dozen dozen TikTok marketing partners. And we're one of the only TikTok shop partners that's also a TikTok marketing partner. So we do work really closely with TikTok and have for many years.
- [01:12]
A
Yeah, that, that's great. And let, let's explain people TikTok because a lot of people go and, and go and watch a TikTok and, but they don't understand the other part of TikTok that is the business of TikTok. TikTok is a business like Meta, like LinkedIn, like any other social media, and they live off doing ads and they get commission from TikTok shop too.
- [01:39]
B
Absolutely. And you know, just for context as well, Ice Media is also a meta business partner and you know, have, have been working with Meta for many, many years, long before TikTok even existed here in the U.S. i think what we talk about a lot is just an introduction on iced media. So I've had my company for about 20 years and about five or six years ago, we really sunsetted a lot of services and made an intentional choice to really become a specialist at the intersection of paid social ads and beauty. So helping beauty brands scale from 20 million to 50 million. From 50 million to 100 million. Really relying on that social media advertising ecosystem to help brands find growth. And when you talk about the business of TikTok, it really has become the primary source of discovery for beauty interested consumers to find out about the latest products, the latest services, and certainly the latest trends. So when we talk about things like jelly donut, tomato girl, cottage core, pirate girl, mob wife, a lot of those larger beauty trends are really starting on TikTok ultimately driving the consumer into their local Sephora, into their CVS online to find out where they can buy products to achieve those needs.
- [03:07]
A
I love that you're saying this because everyone who knows me know that I'm all about creating the ecosystem. And it's so important that we acknowledge that everything starts with brand awareness. And people are not going to automatically go to Sephora to find a product if they don't know about it. They're not going to intentionally go to a store for a product. They need to know about it and they want to find that product.
- [03:35]
B
Absolutely. And oftentimes what we see is TikTok is a great source for that net new customer, that customer that may not find you organically in Sephora or may never come to your e commerce website. It's a wonderful source for discovery. There's about 170 million Americans on TikTok that are actively finding content from primarily creators and discovering new trends and new products every day.
- [04:03]
A
Let's remove some myth that are there about TikTok. You cannot be successful in TikTok if you don't have content.
- [04:13]
B
Absolutely. I think that is probably the single biggest pain point of all of the clients that we work with. And at Ice Media we work with dozens of beauty brands across the the social media ecosystem. Most of our brands are investing on TikTok and the biggest challenge for them primarily is keeping up with the volume of content that's required to really be successful with TikTok. And I think oftentimes we don't look at it as paid content or TikTok shop content or organic content. It really is kind of the, the volume of all of those things. And especially because it's primarily what I said earlier that creator led content. So wanting to make sure that you have a proper balance of content you can create that's going to be brand first and then also creator led content. Now obviously some brands might be founder led or celebrity led, they might be brands that lend themselves to a more easy path to content creation. But it really is a challenge across all brands. And then especially on the advertising side, we talk a lot about creative fatigue. So on Meta, for example, you know, you can run the same piece of content in an ad oftentimes for four, six, maybe even 12 weeks. And it can perform just as well in the 12th week as it does the first week. On TikTok. The lifespan is a piece. The lifespan span of a piece of content is going to fatigue much quicker. It might be only five to seven days. So you have to make sure that you have a constant pipeline of content that you can leverage for your paid advertising campaign.
- [06:05]
A
So how much content you think is enough content for a brand to start? How much content they need to have a week? Because we want to be realistic here. We have a lot of entrepreneurs, small business owners that are our listeners. And how much is enough?
- [06:25]
B
Yeah, I mean, look, Larry, like, I think our partners at TikTok would probably say, you know, 50 pieces of content a month or a hundred pieces of content a month. But I think those numbers can sound really daunting, especially to people that are listening that, you know, might be independent brands or startup brands. And you know, I hate to be fear mongering in that way because I do believe TikTok is, you know, the most democratic platform of any of them. Where, you know, truly any entrepreneur that has a good product and a good idea can compete against the biggest brands in the world. So I think every brand has to approach it with what's realistic for their business and shouldn't hear those numbers and be intimidated about just getting started. I also think you have an opportunity to be really agile and scrappy and think about, you know, each piece of content you create, almost like a Lego set that you have the opportunity to remix and recreate an infinite number of ways. So, you know, even at my company we have a service that we call Content Remix, where sometimes if our clients are struggling to keep up with content volume, will take five source pieces of content and then we'll turn that into 20 or 30 net new pieces of content. When I talk about a net new piece of content, you can never post the same piece of content twice on TikTok because it'll be, you know, recognized by the algorithm and your overall handle will be penalized in terms of organic delivery of your content. So it just means a piece of content that's discernibly different from anything that you posted previously. So changing the audio bed, you need.
- [08:29]
A
To get the most out of your content. It's hard mostly for early stages brands to generate this kind of content. So you need to be creative and exactly. The algorithm will read what you say is absolutely right. It will read when it's exactly the same video that you put in. So you need to change it, reform it, make it unique. And that's where creativity comes very handy.
- [08:56]
B
Exactly. And that's why I think brands of all sizes can compete and win on TikTok because you can be creative, you can be scrappy, and you can really use all of the resources at your disposal. But things Like Cap Cut, there's tremendous new AI tools coming out of TikTok all the time in their AI center that, you know, really can help these brands be very creative with. With limited resources and limited budgets in a way that's never existed before.
- [09:30]
A
Yeah. Well, let me ask you a question, because the algorithm is changing all the time and we see that hashtags are changing too, and there is a lot of talks out there that we need to start putting more SEO and keywords into the descriptions. Not only TikTok but also in Instagram. What's your take?
- [09:53]
B
So I definitely, like, I always like to say, like, here's where I'm an expert and here's where I'm the foremost thought leader and then some areas where I'm not. So I'm going to be less of an expert when it comes to organic content. But I do think you're onto something when you talk about the power of TikTok in search. So we know, for example, that gen Z prefers TikTok as their primary search engine over Google. And increasingly we're seeing far more activity in that search bar, especially on TikTok. And TikTok actually just launched out of beta search ads on TikTok for the first time. So we have several clients in that beta. It's performing really well. A really interesting tidbit is that despite the strong performance, it's been difficult to scale and obviously that's from an inventory perspective. But actually during Cyber Week, we saw some of the best performance ever. The reason being that obviously people were coming to TikTok and TikTok shop during cyber Week, looking for their favorite brands and hoping to take advantage of some of those promotional opportunities going on with TikTok shop. So we saw a search on TikTok skyrocket during those key promotional times.
- [11:15]
A
I think it's great that we're able to put more keywords and it can be more libidious, can be more searchable. So I think people need to be a lot more precise what they're doing in their captions too. And not thinking that when you put in a caption, I put whatever people don't read.
- [11:32]
B
Yeah, absolutely. And I think especially with AI and everything TikTok is doing with AI, every element of your content is becoming increasingly important and targetable. Everything from the message, the copy. Even when we look at TikTok shops shop and your pdps on TikTok shop and being really intentional with how you're naming your product, your product descriptions, every single element of how you're showing up to TikTok should be intentional based on how the algorithm is going to read it, how it's going to deliver your content and feed, and certainly now that search is growing every day on TikTok. The opportunity to be discoverable for new consumers that are going to be able to find your products. It's really exciting the trends that we're seeing there.
- [12:21]
A
Yes, there is a lot of people that I talk to about that they don't believe in the power of captions. I'm a big, big believer in SEO and I truly think that SEO should be included in every social media. But maybe that's my gut feeling or just being old and thinking that that's how everything is moving around. But let's talk a little bit about TikTok shop. In one hand we have the TikTok shop, TikTok that is all content driven. But can you explain in a few words what's TikTok shop?
- [13:04]
B
Sure.
- [13:04]
A
And who should be in TikTok shop?
- [13:06]
B
Absolutely. So TikTok shop is what we would call native shopping within the TikTok app, where the consumer can complete a transaction within TikTok without needing to go outside of TikTok to a third party website like a beauty brand's own e commerce or to Amazon or to Sephora to complete their transaction. It launched officially here in the US last September. So it's been in market for just over a year now. And TikTok is currently the first fifth largest beauty retailer in all of America in just one year time. So it's very, very fast growing. There's multiple different ways that brands can integrate with TikTok shop. They can integrate their existing e commerce website with TikTok, such as if they are with Shopify or another e commerce platform. Or they can have a store that only exists on TikTok and use their own third party fulfillment or TikTok has their own fulfillment called FBT fulfilled by TikTok where they're even building out their own warehouses. Now the most brilliant aspect of TikTok shop is that TikTok built what they call a creator affiliate center that is turnkey within TikTok shop. So this is about 500,000 creators that brands can work with directly. It's fully integrated into TikTok shop. So brands can offer a commission rate. Creators can come in and request a sample which is actually a full size product. That sample will be fulfilled as a normal order, except there's no money exchanging hands. The creator has about a week to make content using that product and then the video is instantly shoppable and the creator earns commission on every product sold. So it's really integrated within the creator economy, allowing brands to have more content created more access to creators and is a wonderful opportunity for creators to be properly compensated for the content that they're making.
- [15:40]
A
And yeah, and also it's a way for creators really put they have skin in the game, they really want to sell the product. So they are. You're encouraging them to make more product, more content.
- [15:54]
B
Absolutely. You also asked what brands should be on TikTok shop and this is a conversation we have a lot, I think, especially because at Iced Media we work with a lot of brands, especially a lot of prestige brands, a lot of Sephora brands, everyone from Anastasia, Beverly Hills and Do Skin and Moroccan Oil and Glow Recipe and say and Kosas and many others. And I think when TikTok Shop first launched there was this misperception that brands needed to heavily discount or the TikTok Shop was only for people looking to buy products that were under $10. People that brands that had a cost of products over 30 or $40 wouldn't work on TikTok Shop. But very soon we saw, we saw.
- [16:46]
A
That they said there was that perception that TikTok Shop, it was only for cheap products, not for prestige.
- [16:53]
B
Exactly, cheap products, products that were on sale, you know, badly made products, fake products. And I think very quickly we've seen that that's not the case at all. I mean, you know that it's the number five beauty retailer. But I think we've also seen some really interesting data out of Nielsen where about 2/3 of US beauty buyers are willing to buy from an unknown brand. But also 2/3 of US beauty consumers expect to see their favorite brands on TikTok shop. So I think it really shows that the expectation of most users on TikTok today is that they're going to be able to find the brands that they love, but they're also going to be able to discover new brands. And I think the great news is that it's a place where all brands can compete and win if they're willing to make that investment.
- [17:48]
A
One of the complaints that I've been hearing from brands in TikTok shop is a it's hard to get into TikTok shop, which it could be challenging, I admit that is it's a lot of work to give all the information. But also at the same time TikTok is really securing the platform and making sure that you are the owner of the brand and not anyone is Selling any products, which is great. Yeah.
- [18:16]
B
You know, can it be challenging to get set up? Sure. I think, Lara, that's why TikTok partners with agencies like yours and like mine. And Those are called TSPs, TikTok shop partners because it gives. And obviously not every brand, you know, has the budget to make that investment on working with partners, but it's so that there are trained experts out there that can make that onboarding process a lot easier for brands. They also have the TikTok Shop Academy, which is an online resource that has a wealth of information with just about every single topic you could think of with, you know, the ability to find the answer. So I think TikTok has done a good job to create access and opportunity and resources for brands that are ready to sell. And, and I do think, you know, sometimes people forget we are just, you know, past the one year mark. So it is still really in its infancy. I mean, we look at markets like Douyin in China where they have about a five year head start, the uk where there's about a one year head start. So I think having the patience and the understanding that when you are an early adopter, sometimes there are going to be hurdles that not every brand has the appetite for. But I would, I would argue that the payoff is well worth it.
- [19:52]
A
And also something else that you need to know when you're in TikTok shop, that it takes a lot of work, that it takes a lot of resources and it takes effort. Like you say, it's not only monetary effort, it's also you need time because you need to be contacting tons of influencers or content creators in order to, to promote your products and to, it's not, it's not like you contact the first person, say, yeah, sure, I'd be happy to sell your product.
- [20:26]
B
Absolutely. You know, we talk about what's called a cold start brand that, you know, that's the language that TikTok would use or a brand that's just getting started on TikTok shop. And you know, one of the things we talk about is kind of how long it takes to unlock that flywheel for success. And with most brands it's going to be three to six months. For some brands, maybe nine months. And that in that time, you know, up to about 50% of your GMV or your sales on TikTok shop are oftentimes going to be dependent on your media spend. You know, the, the advertising dollars that you're willing to use to support that and kind of unlock that scale. You know, certainly the brands that have a larger media or advertising investment can unlock that a little bit quicker. Certainly brands that are already established and have that brand name recognition can as well. But you're absolutely right. You need to have time and patience and be willing to continue to test and learn and invest in order to kind of unlock that flywheel, to see that success.
- [21:41]
A
Like Leslie was saying just now, TikTok shop is still new and they're changing things and offering new things all the time. So you need to be. And there are a lot of programs that TikTok shop have inside the platform that you need to apply and it's a constant checking what's available for you.
- [22:02]
B
Yeah, absolutely.
- [22:03]
A
Like right now I think that they roll out a new product program that they help you with the shipping of the product. Because of the shipping.
- [22:13]
B
Oh yeah. So there, there's a lot of perks and incentives that TikTok offers that you really have to pay attention to. So there's subsidized shipping, co funded coupons and promotions and discounts. But again there's a lot of prestige and luxury brands that are new to TikTok that are not opting into those. You can be successful without them. Obviously for brands that can opt in, there were a lot of Cyber Week promotions going on. Holiday Hall I think is wrapping up now. New Year, New Aura is launching in January. So there's a lot of TikTok promotions and I think it's important for brands to kind of look at what are the right ones for them to opt into. I think what's really important is for brands to think about especially if they're not going to be opting into those promotions and discounts, how can they show up to TikTok shop in a way that is different or unique from where they are selling elsewhere. So if they are at Sephora or they are at Amazon or they have their own e commerce website, how can they maybe offer unique or limited edition product on TikTok or a bundle or a kit or a bogo, you know, buy one, get one free. I think there's so many different ways to really take advantage of that mindset of the TikTok consumer that is very impulse driven fear of missing out and wanting to buy something unique and special on TikTok. You know, I think most brands are really just merchandising on TikTok the way they are merchandising on their other channels. I know for, for my company at Iced Media, when we help brands think differently about how they are showing up at TikTok shop, they are selling more.
- [24:13]
A
Yes. But also it needs to be all part of an strategy of unique strategy that you have for each channel and Absolutely. Very well. One thing, let's talk about pricing, that if you run an offer, you need to make sure that your product is not cheaper in your website than in TikTok. You need to be lawyer or at least you have to have the same promotions. You need to be showing up for your audience with your promotions.
- [24:44]
B
Yeah, I mean I think there's a lot of different strategies that work for different brands and kind of understanding and we talk about this a lot even with our clients that aren't selling on TikTok shop. But that might be, you know, maybe at Target and Amazon and also have their own e commerce really thinking about what is the mindset of the consumer when they're shopping each of their different retailers. Right. And, and then how are they, you know, speaking to that consumer in a unique and differentiated way. You know, we always talk about, I worked with Walmart for many years and the Walmart consumer really being value Dr. And you know, wanting those everyday low prices. The target consumer really being focused on replenishment. Amazon being focused on convenience of, you know, same day or next day shipping and really thinking about how does the message of your brand at the intersection of that retailer shift based on each one of the campaigns that drive to that destination.
- [25:57]
A
Yeah, that was so well said. Thank you for that. But also I want to talk about when you are at Ice Media, you're not only working at TikTok, you're talking working, doing media planning for many platforms. So how do you work with the allocation of budget of different platforms? You do it per client or per strategy or per goals. How is your recommend brands to work with?
- [26:24]
B
I think that's my favorite question that I've ever been asked on a podcast. Thank you, I appreciate that. I can answer it two different ways. The first and foremost is every brand is different. Right. And I think our responsibility at Ice Media is really to show up as business partners. I think some of the proudest brands that we've helped to build and scale in the digital ecosystem are brands like Paula's Choice that we started working with very early on or brands like Moroccan Oil that we started working with when they were just getting started in the E commerce ecosystem and being really intentional about their platforms at the intersection of where they wanted their incrementality to come from. So I think it's our responsibility to be business partners to our clients, understand their business goals. But Also, where their growth can come from. The fastest growing sector of our business, you know, in addition to TikTok shop, is actually retail, Right. So many of the campaigns that we run on TikTok or on Meta or on Snapchat are driving to Amazon and, you know, or buy with Prime Checkout or driving to Sephora or driving to Ulta. And it's because we understand how to leverage, you know, paid social to drive to that particular retailer. But also what are the platforms that are going to drive the greatest efficiency for? So, for example, you know, one of the things that we know about Snapchat is they use credit card data and they can tell you, you know, if you just want to reach consumers in a certain geographic region that purchased a skin care product at Walmart in the past 30 days, for example. Right. Not every, not every platform can let you target those consumers, but Snapchat can. Right? So really understanding what are the unique targeting capabilities, what are the unique ad products, what type of tools and technology to each of the platforms have that are going to allow us to drive the greatest outcomes for our clients? The second part of that question is really about what we call dynamic spend. So, you know, I don't want to your listeners with details about our tech stack at Iced Media, but because it's, it's AI fueled and because we're running, you know, thousands of campaigns for top beauty brands, we have access to the industry's, you know, first and only paid social benchmarks. So what we like to do is have a dynamic spend. So if we know what our client's goal is, right? So for some clients, it might be, I want the lowest cost per acquisition. So we might be running a campaign that's on Meta, TikTok and TikTok Shop. And if we know we want the lowest cost per customer and maybe we see that a piece of content starts trending on TikTok shop, we might be able to drive down the cost per each new customer to $7 or $5 to get, you know, a 50 or $60 sale. For most of my clients, I have permission in real time to move 30 or 50 or 70,000 do dollars over to TikTok shop and get as many new customers for five or seven dollars until that piece of content fatigues. Right. We talked about content fatiguing earlier. So sometimes that can be the difference in terms of making, you know, tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars based on a particular piece of content taking off. When you're able to be dynamic with your spend in that way, and What I mean by that is not saying, okay, it's 100,000 on Meta and 50,000 on TikTok and 20,000 to TikTok Shop, but rather, maybe we're going to start there, but we're going to be fluid and we're going to allow ourselves to allocate the spend to the most efficient channel at the most efficient time. That's where you can see real scale.
- [30:52]
A
Yeah. And you were talking about big numbers of advertising there, but there are some small companies out there that. Do you think is worth it for small companies to start with meta with $5 a day?
- [31:08]
B
I do. So, you know, it's, I'm going to get a little jargony and I'm going to apologize for that. So, you know, kind of stop me if I'm, I'm using words that aren't easy for people to understand. I would argue that Meta has the single most sophisticated ad technology of any platform that's ever existed, digital or otherwise. Right. Like, like still, you know, as much as I advocate for TikTok all the time, I still think in terms of new customer acquisition from an ad platform, it's going to be Meta and it's, it's probably going to be the most cost effective.
- [31:50]
A
Agreed.
- [31:51]
B
The most important thing for Meta is training your pixel. Right. And that's where I'm going to use words like pixel and algorithm that sound like a lot of. But the most important thing with Meta is consistency over time because that pixel is what teaches Meta's algorithm. Right. Which is just the computer that decides who sees what ad when the pixel teaches the algorithm, who the most qualified shoppers are that will be interested in buying from your brand. And the only way to make that smarter is consistency and frequency over time. So, you know, if they only have a small budget, absolutely, they should get started and they should try, but they should be consistent over time and slowly build their budget over time.
- [32:55]
A
Finding who's your audience. Don't try to. Or you can start being. Read the data. Read the data where your people are clicking what, what's working and what's not. Don't let ads that they are not working keep running. I see this over and over again. You need to do a B testing. You need to try things, see what really performing for you. Not about using those $5 and say, oh, I'm, I'm doing that ads.
- [33:26]
B
Absolutely. And you know, the great news for your listeners is that get about a year ago, maybe more now, Meta launched what's called Advantage plus and it's their AI fueled advertising product that really puts the right message in front of the right consumer at the right time. And I, you know, always give an example like may, I'm in the market for a new vitamin C serum and I, I don't know, sent a DM to my friend about it and then all of the sudden I'm scrolling on Instagram and I'll get seven different ads for different vitamin C serums from brands I never heard of. That's the power of Advantage plus to know the exact right person that's in the market for a particular product at the right time. Well, what that does, Lara, is it takes the guesswork out of the majority of all of the different ways that people like me and you used to set up these ad campaigns for our clients. So some of these more, you know, smaller independent brands that might be trying to set these campaigns up themselves now, they don't have to work as hard focusing on which piece of content and which audience and you know, what age gap. Right. Because Advantage plus does all of that for you. It's broad targeting. You don't have to set your targets, you don't have to pick your content. It does all of that for you and it can show, you know, you can have 20 products and 50 pieces of content and no audiences, and it's going to show the right piece of content to the right person at the right time and it's going to do that.
- [35:10]
A
Well, that's amazing that you're helping there. But then when a company should use.
- [35:18]
B
An agency, that is a good question. And I think where we, and you know, I say all the time, like, if a brand has the resources to run their campaigns in house, you know, certainly that's something that they could be doing. Right. Like, the greatest value that we bring to our clients is not, you know, sitting behind a keyboard and setting up and launching and running ad campaigns. It is business strategy. It is, you know, 20 years of working with beauty brands and understanding how to leverage this ecosystem, how to make every dollar count and how to create the strategies that are going to drive those outcomes. Right. Like I have, you know, with my.
- [36:10]
A
I love that you say this because it's exactly the same thing that I will say. It's, we are more shy at pushing a button and putting an ad. Yeah.
- [36:19]
B
Like, they don't, they don't need to hire us to do that. They can go to upwork and, you know, pay someone an hourly rate to do that. But, you know, to work with an agency like mine or like yours, that's taken, you know, brands like Paula's choice and grown them, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars to result in, you know, two billion dollar exits. Like to know how to do that is a skill set to understand the retail ecosystem, the e commerce ecosystem, the platforms, the tools and really understand how to do that, that that's what we're best in the world at. So I think to have, you know, all of that expertise, the experience, the understanding of the ad products, the relationships with the platforms based on the new technology and how to use it, and then certainly the benchmarks to understand how these campaigns should be performing, but also.
- [37:16]
A
How to implement this, the strategy and do the execution. Because one thing, you can have a great strategy and I see it a lot of times having great ideas, but then if you don't have the budget to execute that idea, you are within zero.
- [37:31]
B
Yeah. And it's, it's, that's a really good point. And it's also connecting the dots. You know, you asked about content earlier. Facebook will tell you, or Meta will tell you that 56, sorry, 56% of the outcome of an ad campaign is dependent on the creative. And TikTok will tell you 80% of the outcome is dependent on the creative. Right. So, you know, even with all of these AI fueled ad products, it really is the creative that's doing the heavy lifting. And you know, to work with an agency like mine or an agency like yours that understands the nuance of. Right. We all know this is such a saturated market right now in beauty and to understand the nuance of, you know, what type of content is going to perform in feedback? What are the hero products that the brands need to be focused on? What is the white space that exists? What is the messaging that these brands need to focus on? What is the benefit hierarchy that's going to matter to people when a brand has one and a half seconds to capture someone's attention with a piece of content before they're scrolling to the next. Right. So all of these things are such important factors.
- [38:46]
A
Something to put very clear there. When we're talking about budgets, you need to be keep in mind that you need to have budgets to create this content and have amazing content. Either that it comes from usages, but you need to have this content to be able to run campaigns. Without content, we cannot do our job of converting.
- [39:06]
B
Yeah, I mean, obviously When Meta says 56% and TikTok says 80%, it should be a signal to people of just how important content is and to make sure they do have enough of A mix of content to make their money work for them when they are ready to invest in paid advertising.
- [39:29]
A
I love that because you just said it right. Make your money work. When you put in ads, it's not only. It's not a gambler. You're putting it to work. You're creating. And your goals need to be very specific. Like you said before, what you want from this ad, you want more followers in social, you want more transactions? What do you want from this ad? Is that something you need to have very clear so you know what you're executing?
- [40:01]
B
Absolutely. You have to be very clear with what we would call your call to action. And, you know, make sure that, you know that's happening probably within the first 15 to 20 seconds.
- [40:15]
A
Absolutely. Well, Leslie, thank you so much. You guys know that I don't bring a lot of marketing agency owners to the show, but I super respect Leslie, and I align with her in so many ways that she. And she's a pioneer. Being a woman and in this industry and being able to adapt, I think that that's the most amazing thing about her, that she adapts through the times and the new technologies, and she's not afraid to try new things.
- [40:45]
B
Thank you, Lara. It's been such an honor to be here with you. And obviously, we've been friends for a while, so it's super fun to get to do this with you. And likewise, I have so much admiration for you and everything you do. So thank you for having me today.
- [40:58]
A
Well, and to you guys, I will see you next week with more coffee, number five.