← Coffee N° 5 with Lara Schmoisman
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Foreign.
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This is Coffee Number Five. I'm your host, Lara Schmoisman. Hi guys. Welcome back to Coffee Number Five. As you know, I love meeting people. You meet people here and there and somewhere there too. But you know that those people that they keep coming up to you and that's why I love LinkedIn, that sometimes you even engage with someone in LinkedIn that you don't really know in person, but you're aware of those people in your space and then pop, you're in an event and you really meet them in real life. And that's great. And this was a case with Evelina Aosa. Did I say it right?
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Yes. Evelina Iosa. Yes.
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Welcome. Welcome to Coffee Number Five. I'm so excited to have you here today because I always was fascinated how you're working with brands and not only you're working in the development of brands, but also in the efficacy. And I think that efficacy is something so important and so current right now. People are tired of brands that they are not performing. So tell us how did you get here and why you concentrate on efficacy?
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Yeah, so I've been in the, I guess beauty industry, specifically in like the scientific skincare beauty space for over 15 years with corporate America. So I have to say that I've learned from the best minds in the beauty between researchers, cosmetic chemists to, you know, biochemists and formulators, scientists, R D labs. I've worked at pfap, Demo Cosmetics on couple of the derm dispense brands. I was a head of skinceuticals marketing product development for the US market for over four years. So I was exposed to the scientific beauty, I would say before it became mainstream. I feel like all of the brands nowadays claim to have clinical efficacy and some kind of a clinical study which is nothing but a perception study. Right. On a consumer perception study on steroids. I was engaging with clinical studies and doing research in PubMed on raw materials and molecules with researching dermatologists. You know, when I was, you know, in my late 20s, I would say early 30s, I also got a privilege to work with a contract manufacturer that actually caters to all the physician dispensed brands and and manufactures brands for all the derms brands that are sold at Sephora Ulta but now are very, very popular. So I think that's how it all started. I know nothing else but scientific and clinical beauty, Derm beauty. And I believe that's where all the innovation kind of happens. I know that mass and luxury markets always visited, you know, our booths. Whichever company I was with, associated with would, you know, visit American Academy of Dermatology just to see what's new novel coming up and, and, and kind of jump on a wagon. But I feel like dermalogical beauty always spearheaded the innovations and paved the way for innovations and then the mass and luxury markets with bigger budget were able to commercialize it or maybe make it more mainstream. But I, you know. Yes, so that's pretty much how it started.
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Having clinicals, it takes time, takes a lot of time and it's very, very expensive.
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Correct.
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There's any way, because I know that today you're working with younger brands or smaller brands. There is any way that you can replace those clinicals or, or do it in a more affordable way.
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Yes, I would say you have to be creative when it comes to writing the clinical study protocol for the lack of words. Yeah, but yeah, absolutely. You have to obviously lead with the end point of, you know, discovering what kind of claims you want to deliver on a product and what kind of claims you want to validate. Clearly you can conduct a perception study, but it's just, you know, consumer kind of a questionnaire. You can engage a dermatologist to also sign up on the study. You can go with instrumental analysis. I work with a lot of CRO organizations, clinical research organizations here, domestic, but also overseas. Because of my European roots. I do have relationships with companies in Spain, in Argentina that can conduct clinical studies with tremendous savings and with a diverse population. So quite frankly, through my career I established the relationships with CROs domestically and also overseas. And whenever I work or consult for emerging brands, indie brands, we usually try to tap into the resources from overseas just because of the savings. Unless their MO is to have a clinical study published in a peer reviewed journal here in the United States. Then I advise them to engage a dermatologist researcher who either sits on advisory board for the peer reviewed publication or has some kind of a credibility in the market. So it's usually a strategic conversation but there are options out there and also, you know, you can focus on running a safety clinical and you know, when it comes to efficacy clinical, that's, that's, that's another beast in its itself. But like I said, you can be very creative when it comes to endpoint, I guess, claims and how far a.
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Young brand or a middle sized brand can reach out and find places. You just go to Google and find a CRO.
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I'm sure you can. I haven't done that. Like I said, I've, I've been in the industry for so long I would say my Rolodex of context is beyond dermatologists and estheticians but it's also, you know, clinical research organizations, the contract development organizations. I know who works with whom in the industry. So I would say it's not necessarily word of mouth but also when I attend different trade shows that's where I learn about perhaps new offering or new novel approaches to conducting clinical studies. But I you definitely can Google. I would say Google's not necessarily the trusted source of information.
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I know, I know and that's how, and that's why I'm asking because there are a lot of people that end up Google Googling and end up with the but marketing agency and and it happens always. So that's what I wanted to get at your that it's all about making relationships and knowing people in the industry.
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I would say so and I listen it takes time and I you know, foster those relationships. I do not tap into my role tech of contacts easily. It's very selective who I introduce to to whom it has to, you know, have some kind of synergy and be meaningful. I you know, like I said, I've worked for L'Oreals of the world, Peer Fabs of the world. They established business units in Europe. So I know who they use when it comes to CROs in Europe. And I know it's just by default there is some cost savings and when you start talking to people and you, you know, for example request a sample of a clinical report which is obviously confidential, there's never a client disclosed but you, you get an idea, you know who to go to. I know a lot of derm companies love to use Brazilian based CROs for a couple of reasons. First of all, Brazilian population is very diverse so can test on the skin of color. You can test on you know, Fitzpatrick from 1 to 6 but also they tend to have more of like, you know, oily skin types, acne skin types. So they are launching an acne kind of a product over the counter drug. It makes sense for them to tap into that population roster again. It makes sense. There's hubs in the world and obviously if you're trying to test on Asian population you might have a better luck engaging up in Asia Pacific or at least they're, you know, a brand.
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Such an important thing what you just said because you need to know who is your primary target.
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Correct.
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And when you know. And this is something that you need to start very early on and know and I think no cream, not cosmetics is for everyone. So you need to Know early on who is your target audience and make the research based in that population.
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Absolutely. And I'll be honest with you, I mean there's many methodologies when it comes to running clinical studies. It could be punch biopsy, it could be tape stripping, it could be just, you know, instrumental evaluation. We know that, you know, the more invasive types of evaluations are not necessarily as welcomed by the US population. So that's why you outsource it overseas sometimes. But it really depends what kind of clinical study you're running. I work with topical skin skincare brands but also in supplements and you know, nutraceuticals and that's kind of like an, on different level when it comes to providing proof of efficacy of a, of a, of a supplement. Sometimes you have to do a blood test, sometimes it's, you know, involves even urine analysis. It's more complex and I would say it's more involved but it's all doable. And you sometimes when it comes to topical skin evaluation, you also have to take into consideration the, the climate. Let's say when I run, you know, clinical study in my Spain CRO lab, Spain based CRL lab, I know that this population is probably exposed to sunshine all year round versus if I was to tap into population, Northeast America. So sometimes the numbers get skewed. I have to be very strategic what kind of prerequisite I'm you know, asking of the target audience to.
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And also you need to be very careful and the marketing care in me is going to come in here and, and give my two cents because you need to be very careful with the claims that you want to create from your clinicals. Because also when you go to organizations like Amazon or marketplaces, but using certain words you can get really red flagged.
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Of course, yeah, it's the fda, you know, definition of a cosmetic versus a drug. Yeah. So that's why it's important to work with like regulatory compliance department, make sure they don't make any skin structure change claims because you want to stay within the cosmetic definition versus a drug. And if you do have a cosmetic drug such as a sunscreen or acne formulation, maybe with salicylic acid, that has to follow the, you know, FDA OTC monogram and the requires specialty testing and obviously a different investment when it comes to budgetary, you know, investment. So.
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Yeah, yeah, so because let's be honest, nowadays having, creating a, a cosmetics line, it's not that different.
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Difficult, right? Yeah, fairly easily.
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So how you can differentiate from others, how do you make sure that from the Conception, you are different.
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I think it all happens, starts with the idea, the mission statement, having a proprietary molecule, technology, maybe a delivery system, maybe a new indication you're trying to address. That definitely is helpful. You do have to have a hero skew because by the rule of thumb, the 8020 rule still is valid where usually 80% of your sales come from a 20% of your product. And it's usually the hero skew that pulls entire engine. So I would say have a very, very, you know, a specific, I guess go to market strategy and a strong brand and product positioning and some kind of unique selling proposition. May it be like I said, unique molecule, maybe a patented molecule or ingredient, something novel. Nunes always sells. But you do have to capitalize on the momentum rather quickly. And there's a lot of copycutters out there. I would say doing the copycat approach, where you just recreate somebody else's success and mirror their success. It's not the best foot forward unless you can compete on price. But we know that, you know, perception is reality and sometimes when you're the cheapest brand on the market, you are being clustered into not as effective and vice versa. So it would really have to, depending where you want to go.
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You mentioned before about being supported by a dermatologist or dermatologist signing off on your case studies or on your observation studies. So how do you go about that? You just go and knock on the door of a dermatologist and say, hey, yes you can.
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If they have a setup to conduct, you know, clinical research with the patient populations, or you can just opt in to work with a dermatologist that is already associated with a CRO. So it's just like an added cost affiliated with having a dermatologist kind of sign off on the clinical study. It's kind of, it's done under their supervision. And then you can say it's dermatologist tested. So it's just the claim that you can make. But you don't have to go directly to dermatologist. You can just opt in with CRO to engage a dermatologist. It may not be somebody super known. You may not be able to use their name, image and likeness in marketing pieces, but you can make this claim that is dermatologist tested. And listen, I'm not a CRO, so I may not have all the answers. It's just from experience. I know that that's.
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And it's great to have the experience and it's that you have experience and people actually know that what a CRO is and be able to educate themselves by listening to you here and we can give that information. So I have another question for you because you are, I mean your experience is in marketing, but also in creating very unique brands and to create lines of brands. I always say that if you don't have a cohesive brand, you don't have a brand. You have a collection of products. So how do you make sure that when you're creating a brand, the products not only work one with the other when you sell? I mean, I think that there is a misunderstanding out there that you can. Sometimes it's great to mix and match, but the line of products are created.
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To work together ideally.
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Right.
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You wouldn't want people shopping out of your brand and taking their favorites. I think it makes sense to go to market with like a mini regimen, for the lack of better word, which always encompasses like number one step in everybody's skincare regimen is proper cleansing and then some kind of a hydration and ideally would end with a protection via, you know, broad spectrum sunscreen. But that, that doesn't mean you have to have all three or all 50 SKUs to pick from. You can start slow and go to the market, like I said, with a hero skew, just to get the buzz growing and the brand awareness and then scale accordingly. But you know, I am a classically trained marketer and I feel like working at L'Oreal that's, you know, marketing and branding powerhouse. On another level, I got to learn not only from my peers on skinceuticals, but also tap into other 20 brands that L'Oreal owns. We were sharing best practices and whatever work for Yves Saint Laure or Armani or even Kiehl's we would incorporate into skin silicones and vice versa. I feel like, you know, leading with innovation is definitely key, at least in this space. Like dermalogical beauty, innovation is key. And it may come in different formats. It could be the way you dispense the product. Maybe it's a new, different mechanism of action. It could be a new indication. For example, the hero product at Skin Suitables has been around for over a decade. What we did differently is we just rent. We found a new indication for it. Similar with pharmaceutical companies. They might have a drug, even like Botox. Right? It was indicated for one thing and now it's indicated for multiple different addresses, different targets. So I think the key is to launch a product that it's timeless and multitasking because that's what consumers want nowadays. They want multifunctional multitasking products and having the arsenal of tools within the, you know, line to complement that hero skew. Ideally, because like I said, you won't. You don't want people to shop outside of the brand. You don't want to lose them for, let's say, a cleanser or a sunscreen from another brand because they may not come back to you to replenish. They might discover something else. So ideally you would lock them in as loyalists. Obviously easier said than done. But I feel like everybody should have that kind of moto movie to provide at least an essential skincare regimen. Anybody can start on and then build it out gradually based on trends, based on your target audience needs and based where the market is heading.
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Yeah, and let me ask you a question, because right now everyone is so based on social proof and people are, every time they're reading and reading less. So people really not gonna go and read a clinical, but they are going to social media and listen what people have to say. So how do you integrate this idea of having the right information in one hand about clinicals from the marketing side, how that integrate that messaging and integrate with the social proof?
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Yeah, I think social proof is huge. It's like a new currency, digital currency. Private equity firms and venture capitalists who are looking into mergers and acquisitions in this space. And five years ago this wasn't even maybe as much of a conversation, but nowadays everybody checks, you know, what your community is like and obviously the social proof. And I feel like, you know, social media is just like another digital channel that the brands can leverage. Especially when it comes to scientific brands, they should be leading with education. So making the science and, you know, the claims. Snackable, short form, video form is obviously is trending, engaging with influencers. I feel like I don't want to be teaching anybody digital marketing because I'm sure there's more experts out there than I am. But I know that's what works for, for beauty brands. And if you don't exist on Instagram in particular, it's almost like you don't exist. Everybody always, obviously they go to your website because it's the window to the world, but they will click on your social icons and they will see that.
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Social proof and you need that brand awareness. Social media, I personally don't believe that there is so much. The purchase is not going to come directly from social media in my experience. But unless you're in TikTok shop or one of those cell channels. But you need to create that brand awareness. You need to be present Absolutely.
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And you know what, you're discoverable. A lot of friends of mine use social media almost as a Google search engine. So if you know they're search engines.
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Yes.
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And then for SEO purposes, I mean YouTube, it's a low hanging fruit. I would definitely invest in that channel as well. Especially in a beauty space.
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Yeah. So what are the trends that you see in the industry this year when we are recording this? We are in March 2025. So what are the trends that you industry that you see? There is more clean beauty. I think that is a given now. But what's going on in this space?
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I think clean beauty, you know, it's mainstream nowadays. If you're not clean, then you know, it's almost. It's not even like a primer messaging. Everybody should be clean os cle as it gets. At least strive to be clean. Personalized beauty has been around for a while, but I think it's on a different level right now. You hear about genetic testing to customize the formulation you should be putting applying on your face. I think there's a lot of innovation happening in terms of ingredient science. So there's synthetic bioactive ingredients that raw material vendors are working on commercializing and prove the efficacy from specialized peptides. Now we also hear about, you know, obviously exosomes, which is a byproduct almost of stem cells. Stem cells have been around for a while, but I think it's just becoming on a different level. Like those in ingredients are very specialized. I think they are highly purified. And we all, for example, heard about green tea, green tea extract being good for us when ingested, but also when applied to the skin. But now we know that raw material vendors are able to just derive the polyphenol fraction of green tea. The ECGC that are, you know, scoring high on the Oracle scale because that's what really is acting meaningful for your skin. So instead of perhaps just getting an ingredient, you're getting the specialized derivative or specialized polyphenol fraction of the ingredient that normally was popularized. So I think that's what's trending. And obviously regenerative. You know, skincare and medicine, there's blurred lines and I see a lot of skincare companies actually expanding their portfolio into ingestible, so supplements as well. We know there was a signification of body care, signification of hair care. It's not going away. I feel like people are realizing that we've been investing.
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But I also feel like there is a gloss over lately in two other industries, beauty and wellness.
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Yes.
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And Also fragrance. So what's your take in those two industries and how they're crossover into the beauty industry?
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Yeah, I mean, wellness obviously is here to stay. I think we all talk about self care. Skincare is a big part of it because skin is the largest organ of your body. And I feel like, you know, a lot of ingredients that are good for your wellness and you know, also good for your skin. So there's obviously like an overlap of a lot of botanicals, extracts, traditional Chinese medicine, that it's entering the space and being more prominent. I feel like people are more open to having naturally derived ingredients, especially those that we're used to just buying biotech or maybe tapping into the the two of both words and bridging the the gap. And when it comes to fragrance, I'll be honest with you, I'm not as familiar with fragrance industry. I've launched fragrances before, I incubated fragrances before. But that's not something that I'm fluent in. So I don't want to misinform anybody. You probably have more.
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No, but I did you see it also that there is a big trend of new brands that they are very strong with fragrances, not only perfumes, but including very unique fragrances into their products.
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Yes. And a lot of clean, I think aspect is also being incorporated into fragrances. So less synthetic and more natural approach. And I feel like the old, you know, French fragrance houses are having a renaissance. I think there's a lot of fragrances coming out of the Middle east as well. The oud fragrances, you hear about it a little bit more. They, they had a prominent presence at Cosmo Proof. So I feel like it's definitely here to stay. It's integral part of beauty and I think it's cultural for some, you know, regions as well. Right. And then you see a lot of dupes as well. So you have, for example, those here whose, you know, lunching fragrances that are a little bit cleaner, more, I don't say affordable for the lack of better vocabulary, but it's a dupe of a popular fragrance that may not be as clean and also not as available. For some certain populations.
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There is this thought of products that are organic or using organic ingredients that they are better for you. What's your experience with that? Because many times organic ingredients might not be as effective as other ingredients.
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I mean, listen, I love nature, I try to eat organic. I will say I would prefer to put organic products on my face, but quite frankly, it's still so like unregulated organic does work. I don't think it's known for being super efficacious or result driven. I think it's more for like sensitive skin. These are products that will not necessarily cause any aggravation. I don't know if they are as corrective in nature. They are probably more like preventive. I'm thinking they are, you know, packed with antioxidants and maybe like nourishing ingredients. I feel when it comes to corrective and treatment products, you still need the biotech, you still need the peptides, you still might need the retinol. You can opt in to go bakucho route which is a natural derived ingredient. It could be organic. But obviously there is audience for organic beauty products out there. To each its own. There is enough of market share for all of us to live, you know, together. I just wouldn't classify them as the result oriented beauty. It's probably for people perhaps who have more of a health awareness. So maybe they went through health issue and now they're opting into organic beauty and organic skincare. Well, like I said, I think there is room for all types of skincare, you know, brands to coexist.
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I mean I believe that there is room always to have one more brand as long as there is a unique brand and for a clear target audience.
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Right. So like eminence organics, I think they are all about organics and they do live in a medical spa channel. But I don't believe that every single esthetician is using exclusively just eminence products. I feel like they are supplementing maybe certain treatment products from other brands. So. So it's definitely a nice add on. I don't think it's, you know, your 100% go to solution. Maybe when you're young and have a plump skin and all you want to do is just, you know, keep the hydration and healthy glow going. Great. But once you start seeing the signs of aging, you have to tap into, you know, the biotech and more like result oriented.
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Absolutely. And also it's about the combination and you start seeing skin disorders and issues now. We have also wonderful technologies out there that lasers and spa treatments. So skincare also becomes like a maintenance or complementary to your treatments.
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Yes, it's all about integrating skincare into in office modalities. We've been preaching that at SKINCEuticals, you know, 10 years ago and now it's becoming mainstream as you know, as, you know, as aesthetic procedures becoming more affordable and mainstream. Before you would not even think about it until you were in your 40s, 50s, 60s. Now you see, you know, young people engaging in, you know, laser skin.
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I think also there is more data and more awareness of what's going on and what happened to our skin. That mature skin is not in your 60. You don't have to be a senior and having a Medicare card to have mature skin. Your skin start maturing in your 30s.
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Absolutely.
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Genetics and depends on many things that you need to consider and each skin and this is, I love recommendations with my friend from my friends, but I have different needs than my friends. So not necessarily everything will work for me.
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Absolutely. You gotta test and see what works for you. And what works for you yesterday may not work for you tomorrow. Your skin also reaches a plateau moment. That's why I love to have like a step up skincare regimens where you cycle things on and off gradually. Obviously no drastic changes. But absolutely. That's why I said there's room for all of us to coexist.
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But also we need consistency. When you try in a product, you need to give it time. It won't work in five days.
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Yes, you work with your skin cycle, which you know, it's 28 days when you're young and obviously it's a little bit longer when you as we age. So you do have to give your skin some time to adjust. It's a living and breathing organ. Nothing happens overnight. That's why even the clinical studies we run a minimum of three to six months because you want to gonna show some kind of improvement. But like we know it's not gonna happen in a month, it's not gonna happen in two months.
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B
When you're trying a product, you need to be consistent. And you cannot say it doesn't work for me in 10 days.
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Yeah. And you know what, the terms that I work with always say compliance is key. If you find a product that you love to use and use it regularly, then stick with it.
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B
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having coffee with us today. This was really, really enlightening and thank you for sharing all this information.
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Thank you.
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B
And to you guys, I was so happy to have you here today and I will see you next week with more coffee number five.
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A
Bye.
- [27:42]
B
Find everything you need@larashmoisman.com or in the episode notes right below. Don't forget to subscribe. Was so good to have you here today. See you next time. Catch you on the flip side. Ciao, ciao.