← Coffee N° 5 with Lara Schmoisman
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. This is Coffee Number Five. I'm your host, Lara Schmoisman. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Coffee Number Five. Is your coffee ready?
- [00:15]
B
Mine is.
- [00:16]
A
All right. So, you know, we've been talking about businesses, and we're in 2026, and this ecosystem had changed drastically in the last year, but it has changed in every part of the ecosystem. So today I want to bring you two really, really good friends that understand, and I will call them more like sisters, that they can understand the ecosystem that I work very closely with. And they're amazing. They're from the PR side. Jennifer and Lauren from Intersection pr. You don't know how important is now more than ever, like in this era of AI to get your PR on track as well. So let's get this conversation going. It's something that, I mean, I love to meet with them because we keep talking on how we can collaborate and help these brands. But first I'm going to let them introduce themselves. So welcome, welcome. Do you have your coffee?
- [01:09]
C
Thank you. Always.
- [01:10]
D
Well, here's a fun fact. I don't drink coffee.
- [01:12]
A
Ooh, we're going to get to that later.
- [01:14]
D
Yes.
- [01:15]
B
And here's a fun fact. I drink coffee with so much cream that people tell me I like cream with a side of coffee.
- [01:21]
A
Yeah. Well, you know that. That's my last question of the podcast. So we are going to have to find a new one today.
- [01:27]
C
Okay.
- [01:27]
A
I love. I know you guys been. We're not going to say forever, but we've been around for the blog for a while and PR has changed so much. I mean, I don't know if you guys knew this, but I was in the other side of pr. I work in PR for many years, and so I know the two sides of the coin. And also I see how it transition and how difficult it gets to get placements for brands. Yeah. So why don't tell us a little bit how you guys started, if you want to tell us when you started.
- [01:59]
D
Sure.
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A
How you see the PR ecosystem changing over the time.
- [02:03]
B
Oh, it's changed so much.
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D
I mean, it's so funny because, like, when. When we all talk about how it's changed so much, Jen and I see it changing, you know, almost weekly. You know, it's not. It's not a lot of time in between when PR is changing. It changes from day to day. We see it, you know, what works for us in one campaign doesn't work for us in the next campaign. So, you know, I think the secret really to being successful is being nimble and being Able to, you know, see.
- [02:31]
C
What'S happening, notice what's happening, take, you know, take action, and then change so that, you know, you're seeing success and your clients don't see anything behind the curtain. But, you know, you keep. You keep sort of moving with the times.
- [02:45]
B
Yeah. I will add to tag onto that, Lauren, I will say one of the things that I think we pride ourselves in is, you know, we both come from very big agencies, and we know that world, and we also see a lot of agencies that when they're asked to do something, they're like, it's not in my scope. No, no, no. We tend not to really have that in our vocabulary. We tend to say, if it's not in our scope, we are either going to figure it out or we are going to bring someone on that it's in their scope, and we're going to collaborate and help you get to where you need to be.
- [03:14]
A
I. I love that because, you know, that's how I am, too. It's like, let's make it happen. Let's find a way to make it.
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B
Yeah, let's check that box for you.
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D
Yeah, absolutely.
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A
When there's a will, there's a way.
- [03:26]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
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D
I never understood when people said, I don't do that. You know, I think. I think, like Jen was saying, with me having my first job out of College in 1985. By the way.
- [03:39]
C
Sorry, no, 1989. No, no, no, no, no, no. I graduated high school in 1985.
- [03:44]
B
I was like, wait, Lauren, really? No.
- [03:47]
C
I can't believe I aged myself like that.
- [03:49]
D
Uh, no. In 1989, my first job out of.
- [03:51]
C
College was with Saatchi and Saatchi. You know, I remember distinctly my father, who was an EVP at A. a Saatchi and Saatchi advertising agency, you know, giving me some pointers. And his one pointer that stuck with me through today is whenever anybody says, somebody help, you raise your hand. And if you don't know what you're doing, you figure it out. But you say, yes, I can do it. And that ethic has stayed with me through today. So when. When we meet with new or we're with our clients and they say, I'm.
- [04:23]
A
Gonna say something here. I think that's why we have the benefit of being older, because right now, I feel like the new generations only learn, so a little part of the business.
- [04:35]
D
Yes.
- [04:36]
A
From the beginning, we understand what's going on and what it takes to say, I can figure out.
- [04:43]
D
I think you're right, and I think that this generation, and I have children in this generation who I am trying very hard to, you know, to relay a work ethic. And what, how I grew up is that, you know, they want to work minimal and they want to get paid maximum. And, you know, in terms of getting paid, you know, every business in America, it doesn't matter if it's pr, if it's the auto industry, if it's hospitality.
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C
You get paid for the job that you do. And I always find it kind of fascinating that when you, you know, you.
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D
Come into work, you know, we all.
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C
The three of us were trained that get in before your bosses and you leave after your bosses. And that's not how it is now.
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B
And if you need to take a.
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A
Phone call after hours, do you do it or on.
- [05:33]
D
Right. Listen, on the one hand, I admire that this generation has drawn a line in the sand and they said, this is work and this is my. This is my work box and this is my personal box. And I admire that.
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A
I'm going to say something here, maybe in a popular opinion, but I love my job. I don't have time to work a little later. I really feel passionate about what they do.
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D
Yes, yes.
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A
Wonder if somehow into the intergenerations we lost the passion.
- [06:04]
C
We did lose the passion, you guys.
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B
I also think, look what. They're very different generation. They live through Covid. Covid taught people, you can be home, you can be just as productive and be home. And, you know, it's like the whole, our whole rationale and the way we do things, I feel like has gone down the toilet. Unless you're our generation, you've lived and understand it, we have to now adapt to that generation because a lot of our employees are that generation. Yeah.
- [06:30]
D
But I also think it's a big difference between having a job and having a career. And I think that this generation is really just wanting a job. They want to get through the day, they want to go have their fun and God bless them, like we all do. But I'll give you a small example of the difference in how I'm trying even, even subconsciously to get through to our team to make them better at what they do. We were just at a lunch yesterday with a client and we went to this restaurant called Cocodak in New York. And it's a phenomenal restaurant. When you walk into the restaurant, there are sinks right in front of you, beautiful sinks that have soap. And you're encouraged to wash your hands before you come in. I don't know if that was done for Covid. I don't know if that was just, if that's just a thing, but my immediate reaction was we have Toca as a client and they have soap. Why isn't our soap here? Let me speak to the manager.
- [07:27]
C
Let me get our soaps into this restaurant. We will send them cases of soap.
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D
And I asked for the manager, I.
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C
Got his information and one of the girls that works for me said, you are always working. And to be honest, I didn't even think of it as work because it just comes second nature because I love what I do and I want my clients to succeed. And her picking up on that, I'm hoping will show that it's not just a 9 to 5 job. You don't punch a card and come in and have a list of things to do and then leave. You're constantly looking, you're constantly having conversations. Yes.
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A
It's all about making connections.
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C
All about connections.
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D
Yes. It really is.
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A
Let's go back to PR for a moment because I remember the days we had only traditional pr.
- [08:14]
C
Yes.
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A
So, and I mean I was, when I was teaching my at Cal Poly, one of the main things that I always will bring to the table in at the first classes was how much the digital world changed. This industries, fashion, everything industry changed so much. Because before that we have digital have, people will go to magazines, they will have see a billboard and advertising PR or traditional media, they will purchase or not. But since too fast we had bloggers, we had bloggers, we have digital. So the seasons became a lot faster. So even brands had to start predicting ahead of time how much you're going to buy because how much they, they're gonna sell when or people will go and have, okay, I'm launching this product, like have a photo session, let's call all these journalists, then you're gonna get an embargo and everyone will, yeah, we.
- [09:13]
B
Had a six month lead time, we.
- [09:15]
A
Needed a six month lead time on.
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B
On launching a product or service.
- [09:19]
D
I think the world just moves so fast today and everybody has to adjust every single step of the way from the product launches all the way down. And one of the things that Jen are very successful at is that we have never really looked as PR as just pr. We look at PR synergistically as a cog in the wheel. And without PR or without marketing or without product development or without all of these pieces of the puzzle, you're not going to be successful. It's kind of like, you know, if you take a spoke out of the wheel, the wheel is bumpy right? It's not going to be a smooth ride. And so I feel like, you know, we have really helped our clients look at the bigger picture and pull everything together. You know, a lot of our clients have calls with their marketing people, have calls with their salespeople, have calls with all these different departments and digital agencies and social agencies. And Jen and I have had a real breakthrough with all of our clients to say, listen, you know what, we need to have a summit every month where every one of your agencies comes through. Because if we don't know as publicists what's going on with your digital digital and your social and what products you're.
- [10:35]
C
Launching and what's happening at retail, we can't do our jobs correctly.
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A
Well.
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B
And everything needs to be synergistic, right? Everything needs to be synergistic.
- [10:43]
A
And that's how my agency started because I realized that there was no communication between teams and there were too many freelancers and everyone was working but their own book and not even their keywords or their narrative was. So it was branding and growth wasn't connected. And PR was connected. I even had a case with one client that the client to me was they want to market their brand as medical, whatever it was at the time. But then PR decided to give it an angle of one ingredient, that it was completely opposite to medical.
- [11:21]
D
Right? And that's where the magic is born, if you think about it, you know, because oftentimes Jen and I will be in meetings and we'll say, wait, what did you say? Like there was one time where one of our clients came over from the UK and we speak to them, not, not just like officially every week, but we speak to them non stop. And we're sitting in, in a lunch and the co founder of the, of the company says to us, well, you know, and we have this, this and this coming up. And we were like, wait, what? And I said to the head of marketing, why didn't you say anything? She goes, this is the first time I'm hearing about it. So even internally, right? Even internally, I think that there are breakdowns in communication and as communicators, it's our job to say, all right, you guys, you know, we need to create some magic here. So I want everybody to kind of dump what you're doing and then let's pick up what everybody's doing.
- [12:17]
A
Because that's why I'm such a big fan of. Well, for example, when we work with our clients, I create the whole strategy and I calendar, we put the calendar two to three months in advance. And we share with everyone and was like, fill in the gaps. Tell us what. Because if I need to modify the strategy, I need to know what you're doing, something. Communication is essential.
- [12:39]
D
Yes. In every aspect. By the way, communication is not owned by primary. You know, if you communicate and Jen and I always say over communicate to your teams, not only can nothing fall through the cracks, but that's where ideas are germinated.
- [12:56]
A
I feel like in the meetings at. Sometimes we have meetings that nothing happen and we are. Because we're not talking about the right things.
- [13:04]
B
Well, that's why we've gotten very big on. Here's the agenda for the entire. You know, because you get lost, you get sidetracked. There's so much to talk about.
- [13:11]
A
Yeah. To me it's always super important to have the calendar in front of you.
- [13:16]
B
Yeah, yeah.
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D
And you know, it's interesting. I think it's interesting because some of our clients are like, well you know, the calendar is great, but like this is what we're focused on. And we always say it doesn't matter what you're focused on. You also need to understand what we're doing. Even if we don't talk to you every single day, you know that we are working behind the scenes to get the messaging out. So you know, a lot of times unfortunately in pr, out of sight, out of mind. You know where to Jen's point when you know, she was talking before about being remote. You know, we're not in our clients, you know, boardrooms and we're not in our clients offices. And so it's our job to let everybody know, look, this is what's happening regardless of what you have because I don't know about you, but for us we have some clients who we. Our standard is a six month timeline and we say it's not set in stone. But what it is, you know, where before we're talking about the differences between PR then and now, you know, PR then. It's like that calendar, you would never ever go off anything but that calendar.
- [14:23]
C
That was your.
- [14:24]
A
Now this is one of the things that I really. And I was having literally this conversation yesterday because things in PR are starting to happen so fast and many times you need to address it in the minute. But also there are so many missing opportunities for teams not communicating. Like if you have something happen in pr, I need to take full advantage of marketing, see how I gonna be using whatever happened and expose it more.
- [14:52]
B
Can I give you an example of something too that like what we do what we like to do for our clients so that they know that the wheel, the wheels are always turning is we give them a master calendar by quarter, by half, by year, depending on. Usually we do six months because things do change so much. But we always say to them we are keeping, we are keeping an eye out on, on opportunistic. So for example, we had a very well known optometrist who was a client, she's a big influencer. And one day we're all looking out the window here in the New England area and there was smoke everywhere. There is literally smoke everywhere. And it's all over the news. It's on the national news, it's on CBS Nightly News. What's happening? It's coming out from Canada. Was there an explosion? Is there an environmental? Like, what's happening? And we're like, well, here's an opportunity to get her on the net, the Nightly News. People are like complaining, their eyes are burning. What's happening? I mean, we weren't planning for this. We just looked out the window and thought, okay, we have this amazing optometrist that we represent. She's world known. Now's our chance to get her on the Nightly News.
- [15:54]
A
Oh, I'm gonna go at the same time and pitch it and say, hey, let's hear about people talking in TikTok and let's. Yes, and let's do a post using the same hashtags or the same keywords.
- [16:04]
B
That's right. Yeah. I mean, it's really heavy. It's paying attention, it's paying attention to the immediate. While you're also paying a lot of attention to the long term and also.
- [16:13]
D
Paying attention to social media, which is moving even faster than anyone else. That's crazy, right?
- [16:19]
A
Tell me about it.
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D
Yeah, we all have our hands full with what's happening in pop culture and what's happening, you know, in, in the day to day. And then you go on to Tikt and TikTok and Instagram and these, these are moving. Last night we had a conversation about what is happening with 2016. Why is everybody posting about 2016? To jump on it so that we can say to our clients, this is, you know, something that you should get on in case your digital or social isn't on it right now. We just want to flag it for you.
- [16:47]
A
Yeah. Another thing, for example, I always discuss with my clients is that we have three brackets that they're so important. One is the DNA of your brand. That's who you are. What are you pitching? And that's what you need to get to be known for. And also you have the competitive parts like who is your competition, how you separate or how every time that they show up, you want to show up too. That's.
- [17:13]
D
And you know, you wanna, you wanna get. I mean, your goal as an effective communicator and an effective partner with your clients is to think for them, right? So you go to them so that they say, huh, that's a great idea. I didn't even think about that. And that's your goal every day to get there. And sometimes there's wins and sometimes, you know, things fall through the cracks and you know, but your goal is to have all the balls in the air and for them to say so. True. Let's reach out to intersection. Let's make sure that we're making the right move. Let's see what they have to think, you know, because they hire us for our expertise.
- [17:51]
A
Let me say something to that which is really important, that being a client doesn't mean that you can push all the work to whoever you hire. No, you need to put a lot of the work you need to show up. If you are a personal brand, you need to be willing to do videos. If you are a brand, you need to be able. It's expensive and you're gonna have to get product videos sitting, giving away products, getting to press, talking to press. There is so much to do. So hiring a team is not just paying. You need to show what shows you do a lot of the work.
- [18:25]
D
But you know what, the key to that is, is that Jen and I always say, if you want to hire a yes company, we're not your, we're not your team. You know, we are going to tell you that you're going to need to do some things. We're going to tell you that some ideas are not good at all. And then we're going to say yes when we feel in our heart and in our gut that the answer is yes.
- [18:47]
B
So they're like just managing expectations altogether. People that come to you and they want to be on the number one rated podcast and they have zero awareness at all in their, in their trade or what they're pushing. It's like we need to build you up first before you go after the number one podcast in your category.
- [19:04]
A
It's the same with marketing. I cannot make miracles. It's all beginning. It's about creating that brand awareness and that people to see you in multiple places because the number of touch points are getting higher and higher, right?
- [19:20]
D
Yes, absolutely. I mean, and at the end of the day, you know, this is work and we're all human. We're going to miss certain things and that's okay. The world keeps spinning. The brand will still continue to be okay. We will still get, I mean, I think Jen and I just finished doing our year end reporting and I think intersection, intersection, by and large for all of our clients. We received about 8,000 placements for our clients this year, which is an extraordinarily large number. But have we missed, you know, placements?
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C
Absolutely.
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D
Have Jen and I gone to our.
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C
Team and said this is a big miss, we should have been in this article? Absolutely.
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D
That doesn't take away from the successes that we have.
- [20:01]
C
I mean, well, and also to that.
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B
To that note, Lauren, our friends that are not in our industry, my, my personal, my good friends who are in the medical industry are doing something completely different. They have no idea how this works. So when they're googling something and they're like, what is the 10 best moisturizers? They don't understand why these moisturizers are being chosen. All they're seeing is they're the best.
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C
Exactly.
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B
No, wait, why are they tagging them? Why am I getting fed to Amazon? Why am I getting fed to Target? They don't understand any of the stuff going on in the back end. So in that sense also why are we not in everything? Many of our clients are indie brands. While we have some huge clients that are not indie brands, many are. And they still don't understand the game of Amazon, the backend, the affiliate, all of that that comes with why brands are.
- [20:53]
A
That's a problem and that's something that I want to put a stop here and we need to address it. That the client doesn't need to understand how to do our work. That's what they for us.
- [21:03]
D
Exactly.
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A
And nine times out of ten they.
- [21:06]
D
Don'T want to know. They don't want to know what we do.
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B
They don't want to buy a stuff.
- [21:09]
C
But if a client says to us.
- [21:10]
B
Why am I not being tagged? We've had people come to us and they're like, we're like, your category absolutely needs to be on Amazon. Your supplement category. I have three teenagers, they all love the supplement category. You know, the powders, this and that. I love that stuff myself. But I go to Amazon first. I want to see the review.
- [21:29]
A
That's why we became partners with Amazon.
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B
Because we have clients that are international, they're on the other side of the world. They re potential clients, I should say. They refuse to Be on Amazon. And we have said to this particular client who's actually flying in today, said, I refuse Amazon. And I said, we need to sit down when you're back in New York and I need to explain to you why you need to shift your thinking.
- [21:52]
A
I would love to be in that conversation. I would love to hear from the PR side why it's important. I believe you need to be where your people shop.
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D
This is the right. All you say is you need to meet your clients where they're at and your clients are shopping on Amazon. As much as everybody says, well, we hate Amazon or the retail. From the retail perspective, PR is, they're.
- [22:17]
A
Getting a kickback from and they're getting.
- [22:20]
B
The biggest huge kickback.
- [22:22]
D
I mean, you know, the bottom line we say to our clients constantly is that if it's apples to apples and the, and the media has a difference between you can, you can tag Amazon or you can Tag a retailer, 100% of the time they are going to tag Amazon. And to be clear.
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C
Yeah, right.
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A
To be clear, though, Shopping cart.
- [22:43]
C
Right.
- [22:44]
B
But Lara, to be very clear, that goes for a very specific, you know, that's not every client. We have had clients that are high, high luxury that will launch a $5,000 fragrance. We're not saying to you, go jump on Amazon. Right. I'm saying for the general, for the general mass.
- [23:04]
A
I always say that. Are you dictable? Are you Amazonable? We do research. I have the data. I can show you in data what your opportunity and what is not. I have a client say, listen, I'm going to put you on TikTok shop because it's the right thing to do, but I don't think you're going to sell much on TikTok shop because your price tag is so much for an impulse buy.
- [23:28]
B
That's right, right. An impulse purchase.
- [23:29]
C
Yeah.
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D
But you have to really know, you know, this is also the difference, I think, between our agency and other agencies is that, you know, number one, apart from the services that we offer that we have been told time and time and time again are way above and beyond what other PR agencies, we are true partners. And Jen and I have both worked for other agencies, big, small, who say, we're your partner and disappear.
- [23:56]
C
And then they, you know, and that's.
- [23:59]
A
That'S why we, I love to work with you guys because we're exactly the same and we don't have a problem picking up a phone and talking to VR or meeting for a client that they just text us with an idea and say, hey, let's put that in the wish list. But it's not the right time.
- [24:16]
D
But you could go, crazy idea. But then at the very core of it is that let's call the head of sales at our clients and find out what they're doing and where they're going and do they need help and do they need us to go with them to the retailers to give them like a five or ten minute sort of report on what we're doing to show the support of the brand? You know, we care. That's so deeply.
- [24:41]
C
Yeah, we care so deeply about our clients and, you know, from everything from what I just mentioned to when we talk about budgets, you know, we treat those budgets like they're our own budgets, you know, so, you know, other, other agencies, not only do they take the budgets, but they'll say, oh, you know, you gave us a budget of 30, but we really need 50. Where we're the opposite. We understand that $30,000 is a lot of money to your business. We understand that because we are a.
- [25:09]
D
Small business, we own a business.
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A
And I've seen so many times that I'm doing, for example, for Media Buy, they go after everyone and I'm always tell them, hey, aren't you in retail? Why are not supporting your retailer?
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D
Right?
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A
You have people, I mean, you need to help that buyer, otherwise you need to support your retailer.
- [25:30]
D
Absolutely.
- [25:32]
A
But let's talk for a minute about the game of flirting with each part of the ecosystem, because this is something I see consistently with brands that, and I think that doesn't happen when you work with companies like ours, because we try that to make sure that you have everything. But I seen it over and over again and someone say, oh, no, you just need pr. No, you just need marketing. And so people feel like they need to choose and they try to do marketing for three months and then they do SEO for three months, social media, and then they try to get pr.
- [26:05]
D
It's all about momentum. If you start a momentum with anything that you just mentioned and you pull the plug and you switch direction, you're never going to get overall success because.
- [26:16]
B
Well, yeah, that's right.
- [26:17]
D
You can't stop and start and then go to somebody else and try that. Because unless you're isolating something, you're never going to know something works. And Jen and I say all the time, one thing doesn't work. Everything has to work together in an ecosystem.
- [26:32]
B
The other, the other philosophy that we bring that we, that we often tell our brands is you're looking at a piece and Every piece represents a part of a function of your marketing strategy. Right. So you have your sales, your social, your digital, your PR and so forth. Product development, so forth. At times, PR is this, but when you have a launch, it's this. And other things will shrink. Right. Your product development calendar, certain times of year is like this. Your piece is very big part of the pie and then it will shrink. You will launch and you will go back down. But every one of those pieces is.
- [27:05]
A
Critical to have in place and maintenance is key. I always need to remind everyone how important, for example, in our digital world, Amazon is not yours. TikTok is not yours. Instagram is not yours. Only narrative that you really can really manage is your website. So your website needs to be optimized always. And everything is going to go from there. Yeah, the same happened with SEO. Always need to be optimized. Just doing one time. SEO won't do absolutely anything for you.
- [27:41]
D
Well, you know, and to speaking to that exact topic and to speaking to. What Jen was saying before is that, you know, Covid is a perfect example of everybody panicking and pulling plugs everywhere. And we had said, by the way, we didn't lose one client during COVID not one. And as a matter of fact, we got a few pieces of business during that time period too, because we said, listen, you know, we are your partners here and we know what's going on and we. So we're going to cut, rather than you pulling the plug on everything, we're going to cut your retainers in half during this time period because it is so critical. Everybody's on their laptops right now. Everybody's buying things, you know, we don't want to pull because you're going to disappear.
- [28:22]
A
Yeah.
- [28:22]
B
And we can sell. One of our clients were like, we're not letting you cut your. A lot of. We had clients that were like, no. And honestly, for some, like our cosmetic brands, we were like, now's your time to shine. People are staring at themselves. So those businesses grew.
- [28:36]
D
Yeah.
- [28:37]
A
Yeah. So let's talk for a minute about how this last year of AI changed.
- [28:43]
B
I love. I, I.
- [28:44]
D
This is where Jen and I. This is where Jen and I are not quite in sync on AI. I'm getting. I love it.
- [28:50]
B
I use it all the time.
- [28:52]
A
No, but about that, I mean, because for me, from the marketing side, I need PR more than ever, but in a different way.
- [28:59]
D
I need. Well, okay, so before we dive into this, because I think this is a really interesting topic and I think it's fun to talk about And Jen and I have, you know, Jen is, is the queen and knows so much about this. And I'm kind of dragging and inching little by little because I'm just so a creature of habit. And change for me is way harder when it comes to this kind of thing. But we had a client say to us recently, you know, she sent us, it was like an AI version of a press release. And she said, I think that this is great. And I said to her, my first instinct was, it's not great. This is not great. I get the idea coming, the germination of an idea if you're using AI.
- [29:41]
C
And saying, what can I do? But she had the whole press release done, you know, and I said to her, I'm still of the belief that there needs to be a human voice to this.
- [29:51]
A
Hundred percent.
- [29:51]
B
Absolutely. And that's where people go wrong. They're relying too much.
- [29:55]
D
Right.
- [29:56]
A
However, I have to say this, the landscape changed so much that I not only need to structure websites for AI, I also need to change completely and understand who your consumer talks, who's your customer, because their questions are not keywords anymore.
- [30:16]
D
Right.
- [30:17]
A
They have full questions. So I. And how AI works is I. My job is to get those questions or those problems. Right. But if the brand doesn't get the PR authority and the citations and they get the authority, it's harder because AI takes a few things, press releases, which is, I think it's news for you guys to do more press releases.
- [30:41]
D
Yeah.
- [30:43]
A
And also what they take is PR into acknowledge, to acknowledge authority and how much more mentions you have from accredited sources. That's how it going to be ranking. So it's when now more than ever. I think maintenance in PR is super necessary and try to get them anywhere you can.
- [31:05]
D
I agree. I mean Jen, Jen is doing a whole project on our website right now with a marketing agency that is fabulous. And you know, they're telling us what we need to do. And Jen has been working tirelessly on, you know, getting our website, which what I thought, you know, was great, looked beautiful. I thought we did a great job. And Jen's like, nope, we have to go like tear it all down and build it all back up. And I mean, you could speak to this Jen way better than.
- [31:31]
B
I mean. Well, no, I mean, look, I don't claim to know anything and trust me, I am no expert. However, I think just reading a lot and listening to other people and.
- [31:43]
A
You.
- [31:43]
B
Know, and I also have a very hard time with trust and that includes trusting AI. Right. So even now in using it in our work, we're not putting. We're not saying, write me a press release into AI because you're going to get. Somebody's going to catch you along the way. Something's going to be wrong. It's writing our own press releases, using all the information, using the quotes, using the stats, whatever we have, and saying, does this flow right? Does this feel right? It's not about pulling the information for us.
- [32:11]
A
Proofread it.
- [32:12]
B
Right.
- [32:13]
D
And using AI as a tool versus using AI as a shortcut.
- [32:17]
A
That's right, Absolutely.
- [32:19]
B
I mean, that's exactly right. And everything.
- [32:21]
A
And AI, to be honest, we've been using AI. I've been using AI for years and years now. However, now it became mass how people AI. And as it mass, it became. Because there's so many little apps for little things not credible and gimmicky in many cases.
- [32:42]
D
Yeah, I think trusting anything and anything.
- [32:44]
B
Is scary right now. And AI is a big, A big part of that. What can you trust?
- [32:50]
A
And I do believe that AI is going to get more and more regulated.
- [32:53]
D
It should. It has to. You know, let's hope. I was saying to somebody the other day that, you know, this goes for influencers and especially influencers now. It's like, how many of us go on TikTok and listen to something that somebody says and says. I'm going to try that. They're not doctors, they're not vets.
- [33:11]
B
Everyone's an expert.
- [33:12]
D
Everybody's an expert.
- [33:14]
B
Everyone's an expert.
- [33:15]
C
It's like at this point, it's buyer beware.
- [33:17]
D
Right. So it's our job as publicists to.
- [33:20]
C
Make sure that these influencers and content creators understand the technology or the ingredients.
- [33:26]
D
Or why things are working the way.
- [33:30]
C
That they are in skincare or hair care or it's our job to educate. And everybody's impatient now. You know, everybody wants to put it into ChatGPT or they want to put it into Google and kind of get a quick answer versus, you know, speaking to an expert and sitting down with the head of R and D or sitting down with a doctor of regenerative medicine. Like, you need to understand people's expertise, that they're experts for a reason.
- [33:54]
A
Okay, let's talk for a minute. And you just mentioned it. Influencer. And that people are just talking, which for me is. It's an issue. And I really think that this influencer world needs to change. What are your views on the influencers and how you treat your brands?
- [34:11]
B
Working with influencers, where do we start? That could be A whole entire podcast in and of itself, really.
- [34:16]
D
You have to.
- [34:17]
B
Lauren and I, as you, we grew up our job, our first job at agencies, massive agencies. We are faxing press releases. We had our media list. Here's your long lead. Here's your short lead. Here's your two girls at Vogue. Here's your two girls at W. Boom, boom, boom. That's your relationships. Everything's great. In comes these influencers who have really killed a lot of the editorial world, truthfully, because people are so much more interested in putting their money and their, their energy toward these influencers. But I mean, now it's like the wild, wild west out there. Yeah, it is.
- [34:49]
D
And again, beyond. I love.
- [34:51]
B
We hate them. It's kind of like a love hate.
- [34:54]
A
Well, I only recommendation that you need to be very selective who you work with.
- [34:58]
B
We are very self.
- [35:00]
D
And by the way, all the sex that you can be as sexy as you want and you could be as popular as your numbers show, which we all know that there's, you know, buyer beware. You know those, those numbers are not inflation. Exactly. Sometimes the numbers are not the numbers. But what I think is very important is that, you know, when Jen was speaking before about the magazines, you know, if I, if my clients wanted to advertise in a magazine, there was one price for a four color full page ad in Vogue that was left side cover shot or across from blah, blah, blah. The influencers have absolutely nothing to base on. So Jen and I can have the same numbers, we could have the same.
- [35:46]
C
Audience, we can talk about the same things. I can charge for a story $25,000 and Jen can charge $500. And there's.
- [35:55]
B
And it's happening. We're seeing, at the end of the.
- [35:57]
A
Day, it's really hard to differentiate where the ROI comes from.
- [36:02]
C
Unless you're doing the directly.
- [36:05]
B
Unless it directly affects sales. Right then and there.
- [36:10]
D
That's it there, period, full stop. If they have a special code that our clients can say, okay, Lara, we hired you and you posted a story and from your code you brought in 100 sales.
- [36:24]
B
Yes.
- [36:25]
D
And we've had that with clients. That's the only way that you can determine roi. Because other than that, we've had D list celebrities.
- [36:32]
C
We've had a list celebrities.
- [36:34]
D
We have had.
- [36:34]
A
Otherwise, it's part of your maintenance.
- [36:37]
D
Exactly right. Exactly right.
- [36:39]
B
And oh, and by the way, with that being said too, when clients come and they're like, we're just gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna pay one influencer. We have, this is Our budget and we're like absolutely not. Put a year plan together, take that number, blast it into multiple buckets and you keep your momentum, you're going to go after much smaller. Keep the momentum because guess what, you're wasting your money with a one off shot. It's a waste.
- [37:02]
C
Absolutely.
- [37:03]
D
Yes. And also by the way, these big influencers, consumers are not stupid. They're very savvy. They know this is a sponsored post. Look at their numbers. Yeah, I can urge everybody, go look at everybody's numbers. When an influencer is posting organic content about their families or about a trip that they take with their friends or their dog, the numbers go through the roof. The second that they have sponsored posts, watch how they dip. Watch those numbers.
- [37:32]
B
So true.
- [37:32]
A
Absolutely. Okay, I have last question for you guys because I haven't personally conflicting feeling with this. A new brand, indie brand, spending a lot of budget even though even they have they have the budget. Let's think about money not being an issue. How important is to have a launch event?
- [37:52]
B
No, not Laura, talk about this. It depends if is it a brand that the founder already launched another brand, they're already successful. They have a little bit of, there's a little awareness for who this person is. They're going on and launching a brand new brand. You're Bobby Brown, you're launching a second brand. Yes, we'll take it. You're, you're still indie. But if you're coming out of the woodwork on a brand new brand, no matter who your agency is, if it is not major celeb backed or there is no awareness at all, you're wasting your money on an event because people showing up are going to be bottom of the barrel or they're not showing up at all.
- [38:26]
A
Well, and I'm getting everyone was going to be paid to show up.
- [38:30]
D
Right. I'm also going to go back to what we said before about how we are partners with our clients. If we don't feel that we would spend the money on an event, we don't want our clients spending the money on an event. Also we know this, everybody is running around 100 miles an hour with their hair on fire. If there isn't a reason for being for an event, it goes back to that funny meme like this should have been an email, right. If you don't need a call, 100%. If you don't need a zoom, if you don't need an event, people want the quick, quick, quick. Like what do I need to know? Send me the products. Call it A day. Unless there is newsworthy information where it's something about technology or some innovation or you have a celebrity because that's still sexy to. Oh, I'm going to have Rihanna come here.
- [39:17]
A
You know, I believe in experiences in this.
- [39:20]
D
Absolutely.
- [39:21]
C
So by the way, it's funny you.
- [39:22]
B
Say that because when we're planning something, first thing we think of is the third. The first thing the editor is going to think of. So we think of when we're invited to something. I hate to sound like this. What's in it for me? So for example, we're going to LA and we're taking a bunch of editors to see Gaga. Guess what? They're not buying that ticket. It's a 700 $600 ticket plus. Plus getting transportation to and from, plus your hair done, plus this, plus beauty services. They're not doing all that on their own. So they're like great. This is, this is a.
- [39:51]
D
And by the way you're offering them. By the way, we're offering them content, we're offering them new products, we're offering.
- [39:58]
C
Them to meet with even that you're.
- [40:01]
A
Spending all that money. That doesn't guarantee you that they're going to.
- [40:04]
B
But it's not the money, it's the fact that they're getting an experience. And everything in that experience will be branded and they will get content and they will get stories.
- [40:10]
A
But that doesn't guarantee you that you will get anything out of it.
- [40:13]
B
But if you're saying let's go to dinner, they're like, I can do that dinner on my own with my girlfriends.
- [40:17]
D
Right.
- [40:17]
B
But I'm not buying a ticket.
- [40:19]
D
Let's give you another example of the. So the experience, right? We launched for Toca, a new fragrance. We did a cake decorating class with one of the top bakers that are, that are right now in New York City. Not only did we have 40 editors there who posted many, many, many stories.
- [40:35]
B
Stories we had turned people away.
- [40:36]
D
We turned people away. And so you know, Jen and I constantly look at and our team actually, because the team, we're nothing without our team. Our team is unbelievable.
- [40:47]
C
You know when we go with our team and we say to a client, this makes sense, it's because we, one.
- [40:54]
D
Of us or all of us want.
- [40:55]
C
To do it ourselves.
- [40:57]
D
Right?
- [40:58]
A
But what about creating experiences for the public?
- [41:01]
D
Yes.
- [41:03]
B
Yeah, of course. I mean those are amazing. You see, we wrapped a while ago. We don't wrap them anymore. But Gisu does phenomenal job doing these pop ups in cities. I mean they are like they Should. They are a case study for creating consumer experiences that. Wow. That the hair care company. I mean, yes, but they. Those do take a big budget. And we do say to clients, if you're going to create a consumer experience, you want to make it, you want to blow it out of the water. And that is where you pick your right location and you put your money toward it.
- [41:32]
D
I think also, you know, it's very important that if your client gives you a budget, you try to work all of these touch points into that event. So, like, for example, years ago, we did a launch for Walgreens. They were coming out with a new magazine called Beauty Within. We decided that we were going to take a movie trailer and we were going to have people, consumers experience all of these different brands. So we got sponsors, a haircare brand, a nail brand, a makeup brand, a sun care brand, all of these different brands. We took all of their logos. We did deco on the outside of the vehicle. So, you know, with their social handles. So now we're parking this vehicle in front of a Walgreens store. So now you're touching the consumer, you're touching advertising, you're touching social media, you are touching retail sales. So it's like that $1 that you see spend now becomes.
- [42:27]
B
It has to go a long way.
- [42:29]
A
Yeah, it stretches.
- [42:30]
B
Yeah, it has to go.
- [42:31]
A
It's the same that when you're cooking, it's the same that if two to three people, you do exactly the same thing and eat the same.
- [42:37]
D
Right.
- [42:38]
C
I mean, look, any event.
- [42:39]
B
Creative. Yeah. And any event you do, whether it's press more so press, their bar is very high because the trips that these editors are getting, I mean, and the influencers too, the bar is extreme. Extremely high. Consumers just, they're looking for fun. They're looking often for a good time. They're looking for free products. They're looking for trial.
- [43:00]
C
Right.
- [43:00]
B
So anytime you're. You're putting any of these events together, you really have to come at it. You have to take yourself out of your. Your own head and put your head. You're the consumer or. Or you're the editor. And what if that. What has the editor done? Go on their social. See all the trips they've been on, see the gifts they're receiving, look at their unboxings, look at their level that they're expecting. And you better show up to that level or. Or pick someone else.
- [43:21]
A
And that has a price. So you need to make.
- [43:23]
D
Yes, it does.
- [43:24]
B
Absolutely.
- [43:25]
A
What I'm saying is that you need to know, and I Always tell my clients in what I do that I prefer to know how much they're willing to pay a month or they have in their budget, and we have a little bit of everything. So they are in everywhere, the ecosystem that I try to get all their money in one place and burn it in one month.
- [43:44]
D
Right. I mean, and that's, that's the reality here, is that you want, you know, instead of burning the money, you want something that's going to last you, you know, a couple months so that we can come back to it and, you know, oh, you didn't get to go to Gaga, but guess what? Like, here's the brand.
- [44:00]
B
That's right.
- [44:00]
D
Want to form a relationship with you. And then next time we have an event, we want you to come.
- [44:05]
B
And let's be real, burning money is easy. It's the strategy of how you're allocating that money that's hard.
- [44:11]
A
And also, I'm gonna say something really important that you know who you're working with, you know that the editors that you're inviting, that you know your success rate. And you're not inviting any editor. You. Are you. You inviting someone that you really have the highest chance to get the story there.
- [44:30]
C
Well, so I have a thought on that.
- [44:32]
D
A little bit different. My thought process on that is that, yes, you have your friendlies, and, yes, you know that, like, you know, you know what they love. You have known them for decades. You know, okay, I'm launching this new feminine health product, and I know that she, you know, would really, you know, take kindly to that.
- [44:52]
C
But then on the other end, you want to build more relationships.
- [44:55]
D
So, you know, yes, you have your.
- [44:57]
C
Friendlies, and yes, you want to always be like, oh, let's invite.
- [45:00]
A
That's exactly what I was saying. Because, yeah, you need to make sure that you're going to have success for your client and that you will have the best chance to get that article.
- [45:10]
C
Or.
- [45:11]
D
Yeah.
- [45:12]
B
Our challenge is much different now, though, because, by the way, like I said to you before, Lara our, when Lauren and I started, your list was your list. It was solidified.
- [45:21]
C
There was no emails.
- [45:22]
B
You were calling up your friendlies. You were faxing them right away. There was no surprises. Today you have magazines shutting down or magazines merging teams across five titles. And then they've just brought over the freelancer from here and this from here. So the. The amount of people there is now I think we have well over a thousand people on our freelance list. And that's just for beauty and lifestyle.
- [45:43]
C
It's wild.
- [45:45]
B
It's a different landscape and it's change, it's changing every day. It's not going to stop changing.
- [45:51]
D
No. And you know you always have the dichotomy of the, of the media saying, well this is what we want and this is what we don't want. And then you have us trying to keep up and you know, this is, this is why Jen and I have a very. And I'm not talking out of turn because it's like the difference between us being Gordon Ramsay and other agencies being not Gordon Ramsay. Like we're not sharing any secrets because we do things the way we do and we're successful because of them, because of who we are. Right.
- [46:18]
C
So I just think that the way that Jen and I handle pitching and the way that Jen and I handle and our team handles press and how.
- [46:28]
D
We approach things I think is the key.
- [46:31]
C
Can we speak to every single person and say, oh, Jane Doe doesn't like this but Mary Smith loves that we would be doing nothing but this the entire day.
- [46:41]
B
That's right.
- [46:41]
C
So we have to have a balance. And I think the success to PR in 2026 and beyond is balance and transparency.
- [46:49]
B
Transparency, always transparent, always wins.
- [46:53]
A
And reporting to your client what really is happening in the ecosystem. Like I do real time reporting because I don't I so many agencies manipulating the reports and I can get the data you need to get sometimes it's not something that I did that it was wrong.
- [47:11]
B
It was that changed to say nothing is better. And this happens more often than not, I think because Lauren and I are so settled in our careers and with our clients. But so often we'll get calls from clients. You know, hey Jen, Lauren. And it feels like it's a friendly call. Listen, we were going to pull the plug on this or we're thinking about going ahead with this. Not really sure. What do you think? Like what is your true. And they really are not asking our team. They're not calling a meeting. They're literally calling us at home or in the office or texting or whatsapping from London. Jen. I don't know. I'm having second doubts. What would you do?
- [47:44]
D
Yep.
- [47:45]
B
And that is when you know there's real trust.
- [47:48]
A
Yes, absolutely.
- [47:50]
D
And that's a good job by the way. It doesn't go one way. Jen and I, if we don't feel a connection, we're not going to put our team into like a situation that is like, like a setup to fail. You know, we.
- [48:02]
B
Not everything's a marriage.
- [48:03]
D
Correct?
- [48:04]
A
No, correct. Not everyone is like.
- [48:07]
D
And that comes with experience and maturity.
- [48:10]
B
Yeah, that sure does.
- [48:11]
D
There is an experience and immaturity to say I need to walk away versus just taking everything just because it's like, oh, let's do everything, you know.
- [48:19]
B
Right. Let me take your abuse. Because as you're paying me.
- [48:24]
D
Right. But that maturity is like, this isn't working.
- [48:26]
B
And that's okay.
- [48:28]
A
Absolutely. All right, you guys, thank you so much for having coffee or virtual coffee tea for you, Lauren. And we know already how you drink your coffee. So for next time, we order together. And I mean, I think that we put a lot. We talk about so many things here, but I know my audience will love this podcast. Thank you so much.
- [48:48]
B
Thank you for having us.
- [48:50]
D
This was so much fun.
- [48:51]
A
It was fun. And to you guys, I will see you next week with coffee number five. Find everything you need at larashmoisman.com or in the episode notes right below. Don't forget to subscribe. Was so good to have you here today. See you next time. Catch you on the flip side. Ciao, ciao.