← Coffee N° 5 with Lara Schmoisman
Coffee N° 5 with Lara Schmoisman
The Authenticity Shift: Rethinking Social Media with Susanah Zeffiro
00:27:32
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. This is Coffee Number Five. I'm your host, Lara Schmoisman. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Coffee Number Five. And yes, I have cut my hair. It's shorter today. So, you know, I go through the industry events and you get to know those people that you see around, but also you have those people that you become friends with and, and those friends that, they're so full of information and you know that they are. Maybe it's not business for you or for them, but you know that you can always tap in and say, hey, knock, knock. I want to know what are you doing? I want to know what are you up to? And can I learn this from you? So I met this lady, Susanna, and she's amazing. And I mean her. I'm so humble and she has an incredible experience that every time I talk to her, I'm impressed because there is something new to learn. And I have no idea what we're going to be talking about today because there is so much to talk about with her that I'm just welcoming her. Just welcome, Susanna.
- [01:13]
B
How are you? I'm thrilled to be here. I've been listening to this podcast for years and yes, we have become friends because there was an energy match. But when you keep running into people and yeah, you are always up to something new, evolving, so. So I'm so happy that we're making this time.
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A
But also, you're really good. I know, I'm good too. But you're good to keep in touch.
- [01:32]
B
Yes.
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A
There are a lot of people that they don't know about that. And that's one of the things that I think is so important in the industry, that when you make relationships, keep in touch, don't, don't wait until the next event to connect your network.
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B
Is your net worth?
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A
Yeah, absolutely.
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B
You know, so, yes, I want to.
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A
Know how your career started. Where do you started? Because you end up in Spotify. You were everywhere that it was at the new tech and now you're doing super exciting things too. So how did your life evolve to be in the new thing? Always.
- [02:06]
B
I will say I. I do self describe myself as a futurist because I have been good now in my, you know, career, 13 years, I've always sort of seen where things are going and percolating and being really drawn to getting there first and helping kind of with the building and education and early adoption. So that really is the through line of my whole career. I started my first job actually working in television on the agency side and this is in 2012. And even in that year I worked in TV for about a year and I went straight into mobile because I just knew when we were already issuing what they call ADUs, like deficiency units for basically not hitting these TV delivery numbers and everyone. I mean this is even pre really the proliferation of Internet.
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A
I'm going to put something out there before we continue the conversation because something that I really admire about Susanna and all her journey is that is combining creativity with data. And it's something that I see in the industry that now it's, every time that I see it, it's getting more separated when you need to be creating, becoming more one thing.
- [03:15]
B
Absolutely, absolutely. And yes, I think sort of leaning into, you know, where things are going. I was early at Spotify, sort of pre the podcast and sort of audio revolution that sort of started in like 2018. And that was where I started to realize I have more than just a liking for beauty. I'm very passionate about beauty. I am one of four girls, I have three sisters, the tradition of, you know, going to the beauty salon. I love to do makeup, I love to do nails. I'm just obsessed with all things beauty. So that's a big part of my connection with people and curiosity and proclivities as a woman. And as I was at Spotify, I was realizing no one was really talking to beauty brands. And I thought, why are we not working? I was working on partnerships with, you know, the big Nissan motor companies, entertainment companies, big retail. But no one had really cracked or touched beauty within the audio space. Even though when you know, kind of beauty and audio in the getting ready moment, it's so complementary to that moment. It's so intrinsic, it's soundtrack, yes, from.
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A
I think beauty industry took a lot of hints from the fashion industry and the fashion industry. Honestly, fashion industry doesn't work on radio or television very well.
- [04:34]
B
It's very hard to tell, not show with things like fashion and beauty. But I will say there's so much you can convey sonically and we started to like really crack that. And now as you see video podcasts in this format is booming. So it is visual now and you can kind of as the consumer now kind of on and off switch how you'd like it to work with your day. But yeah, that then led me into kind of a full swing into the gaming space. So then I kind of chased the 2022, 2023, the metaverse, sort of like huge hype cycle. So I went and helped beauty brands early adapt into that space. Worked with Cody and Shiseido. Nars cosmetics and then kind of leading to me to where I am now, which is where I see the industry now swinging into what is real and wanting more unfiltered, raw, behind the scenes content. We are dealing with a major proliferation of AI and with that is coming just content that is like inherently non human and more automated and more algorithmically driven. So I am now at Bereal and what we're doing at Bereal is building out brand partnerships and really using the canvas of Bereal which is rooted in everyday authenticity. No filtering, no algorithmic kind of driven content. It's really about just sharing your real life with friends and actually getting back to your other human life. It's everyone is so hyper digital now and I think there's really doesn't exist places across social anyway that is really a true raw, real kind of moment in time. So that's what I'm building now.
- [06:08]
A
How can you monetize something being real? Are you be able to create with work with creators? Are you. Because you are basically competing with TikTok and that you have this, the social commerce. So how do you can compete?
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B
So it's very early innings for all things. So Bereal is a French founded social media app and it really took the world by storm. Was founded by two French entrepreneurs. It went completely gangbusters. SNL skits like massive across the zeitgeist. Everyone is talking about it. It is a global social media app as well. So one of our fastest growing markets right now is Japan. We're headquartered in Paris, France. So we're really just starting now to build out a 2.0 version of the company. Bereal was acquired last year by another French company called Vudu and now sort of with this new kind of parent company, fresh new set of resources engineering. I just joined the team in January. So we're really kind of now taking this what we know, which is true for especially the generation that we serve. It's a lot very, very Gen z heavy. So 18 to 27 year olds is 71% of the daily usage of the Bereal app. This is an audience that wants more authenticity. They want to see the raw, they want to see the behind the scenes, all of that. So we're kind of now letting brands enter the native feed of Bereal so you can kind of buy it like traditional paid media within the feed of Bereal as you're sort of surfing what you post and what brands and creators that you post that day. So we have now kind of opened up the native, the native feed to Paid media. And then yes, we're also working with influencers as well. So we've built out a cohort of kind of top be real creators and folks that have posted and kept their streak for now over three years. And we have them, you know, tapping them for campaigns to either post organically or use them for UGC platform.
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A
You have like two challenges. One is to get those creators that they going to be posting content and amplify it to their networks. But also how do you get people to know about Bereal?
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B
I know it's so everyone I would say the Bereal has a really real, I mean there's a lot of awareness for the app and a lot of brand love for the app. So I like I said I joined in January. So I've had at this point maybe not a thousand but hundreds and hundreds of conversations now at this point kind of talking and re educating on the opportunity with Bereal. So we're kind of taking a phased approach with kind of reinvigorating the app. We're investing a lot in actual features of the app but in addition to that showing up at key cultural moments. So we've done, we've sponsored a music festival this year, we're planning an Art Basel moment. We were at Cannes this year and did a party. So it's like we kind of have a two pronged approach when it comes to both the consumer and business side awareness and really just kind of getting our, our paid media off the ground last quarter. So very early days. But the momentum is exciting. It is. And I feel like every day I'm just affirmed more and more by also what I'm seeing around just the industry of this just craving for more real, authentic. Not like showing that it's not AI that made this or that it's behind this. I think that there is kind of a. A rewriting has come in also.
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A
What you. My concern is that when you work with brands, brands already have their budget so diversified that they're going to be doing this, this and this. So it's a hard job yours to convince someone that you're going to if you diversify your budget for a new opportunity, you can win a lot more. So how, how do you approach the sales? Because I think that for anyone who is in platforms, anyone who is even it's in business or selling their own brand is sales are hard.
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B
I know it is hard and it's hard too in this state because we are still kind of building up the tech. What's really easy with logging into TikTok or your meta self serve is you know, if you have your assets and you have your URL where you want to go, you can be live in a campaign and you know, minutes. So we're not there yet. But what has been amazing is the opportunity for and especially on the beauty side which is that's kind of the vertical beauty and fashion the verticals that I support. Already a lot of brands that have been sort of accruing an organic presence on Bereal actually Elf Cosmetics, Dior, Caudaly there's just a handful of brands that have continued to sort of nourish the organic engagement on the platform. So now and things like paid media are actually like oh this is finally something that's available so we can now.
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A
Kind of social commerce. That's something that you guys are interested in growing in the future?
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B
Absolutely. Social commerce self serve a real kind of like firm pixeling solution where you can see kind of one to one ROI that's all coming. I mean but I would say right now where we're seeing success is mid to upper funnel more awareness driven things like brand lift consideration and really the brands that are running with us now have this sort of canvas all to themselves. So the share of voice is really high especially in the US because we really just kind of launched and so, so we're, we're breaking into like the, the big retail and beauty. But I think that's another thing too and we've seen it with Elf Cosmetics it's just as one example because we have a smaller kind of overall reach. But the communities that are on Bereal it's a very engaged audience. So 70% of the audience posts every single day. So it's a very leaned in sticky daily active usership. So the brands that again have, have nurtured that have a very leaned in community. So I just, I and I do side by side comparisons all the time of brands that I see kind of in the wild on Bereal posting from their organic channel and comparing that engagement to that what I see on TikTok or Meta maybe for the same campaign. And the Bereal engagement is so, so strong. I mean I'm back for the Elf kind of Halo Glow primer. It exceeded what I saw on TikTok and Meta from likes and interactions and.
- [12:17]
A
Comments because right now your target audience is pretty narrow as you say 18 to 27. Do you think that this will expand, expand the platform goal?
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B
The we're sticking with right now in terms of like net new growth with the Gen Z audience that's already really consistent. But I do think like I said we're, we're kind of one of the newer markets now like in terms of where the evolution is happening. Asia and Europe actually launched first. So seeing now they are starting to accrue kind of a wider range of net new users especially in the Japanese and French markets. So I don't know, I think there is an application here for, for all ages. But where we're really seeing and where we're focusing on and you know, the moments and bets that we're placing from a user acquisition and marketing side are in that like very, you know, 18 to 27 Gen Z college campuses. That's kind of where we're, we're placing our bets for growth.
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A
So I see that there is a lot of experience now for Gen Z. I don't know if it's because of living this. My, my own kids that were doing Covid they lost part of their teenager years basically. So this Gen Z wants to explore want experiences. So how do you work with the platform and with brands to create experiences?
- [13:35]
B
We're doing this really cool like scavenger hunt right now across Paris. I think it's just, yeah, it's, it's creating your own cultural moments and seeing where you can kind of own them and like take over on the conversation. I think a really cool thing for Bereal going forward and things that we're getting off the ground and this is something very unique to be real which is the notification. So that's kind of what put Be Real on the map is this once daily randomly timed notification that everyone sort of jumps into the app and shares the real life what you're doing and that's kind of the currency for interaction. But sort of taking something like the notification now and creating kind of these like monoculture moments around that. How can we take the notification and have it go off during a sporting event or during a, you know, big cultural moment, a fashion show and create something that's everyone in real time sort of sharing and participating in that in real life and then also on the platform because obviously that goes off to everyone across, across the country. So it's sort of like I think that's one area where, where we can really play and use that thing that's so uniquely be real. And it's you know, up until now a very, very untapped college sports.
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A
This can be huge.
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B
Yes, we have that test coming up with a big university for that. So it's going to go off during kind of during the game in A stadium. So. And we'll have kind of awareness sort of leading up to that. But yes, I think that is, that's the thing you're not, you're seeing with other platforms too is everything is kind of like later grams now, you know, you post your trip maybe a month later or weeks later.
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A
I'm the worst.
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B
I know. So nothing's really like real time anymore which I also think is very unique to be real. So it's sort of this like daily moment and for me when I go through like my B rolls it's, it's nice to have you almost have this like photo journal of a day in the life and all these moments that at the time seem mundane but they add up to, you know, your life and it's, it's cool.
- [15:34]
A
So let me ask you a question. How do you use data to understand how to work on your creatives? Because for what I understand this platform and I've been playing for the platform with the platform for a little while now. What I understand is this is all about the moment. So for brands that they want to come to the platform and they, they have their creatives, I mean this is disrupting, disrupting everything we know about creatives from the arts side it is and.
- [16:03]
B
It'S interesting the more pixelated, rough real iPhone looking creatives perform the best on Be Real. So it's sort of like you know, reversing everything that you've known like to your point to work which is kind of this really high production glossy. Our creators that we work with for campaigns literally take their capture on their iPhone and that's because that's what the platform, that's the canvas. You know, you're jumping in as a user that and everything is in the native camera of B real. So there is no pre uploading from your camera role. So the brands that lean into that and I and build creatives that way are the ones that are winning from click through rate from you know, video completion rate. So I would say that's a really big shift is that's one thing that we're just, it's so clear that that is kind of the way to approach creative. We do amazing job helping with that from kind of end to end either helping you tap creators to you know, to take stills or videos that will then reformat for brands or we a lot of the time too can rework with for the right brand or for the right campaign. We. I know it's, it's getting a lot of controversy right now but the Sydney Sweeney American Eagle campaign. We worked on that actually. And what ran and what's still running live now in Vreal is behind the scenes shots of that photo shoot that day. So they're all taken from an iPhone from the. And we reformatted them into paid media assets. So it looks and feels like it's at the American Eagle, you know, Sydney Sweeney photo shoot with the products in it. She's in the shop. But it's a very different creative than you're seeing anywhere else. So I think that's a really good example of you know, a very like raw things that lean into our best practice which is being kind of raw and real, leaning into everyday moments, leaning into the behind the scenes, the humorous. These are all kinds of what about the sound?
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A
But for you, what about sound and music and music rights.
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B
It's so. So we now have an API integration with Spotify. So when you share your be real and if you're listening to a song that will actually. It's actually really awesome. It's a really cool way to share music. It will just sort of hyperlink right there what you're listening to on Spotify. But the best performing is also static. Static. And I just think that's sort of how the it's like, you know, Bereal isn't an app where you're kind of leaned back. Long form edutainment, algorithmically driven. Like I said, it's really just kind of get in and get out. It's 30 minutes time spent per day, seven sessions. So elaborate creative like is not even what we're seeing works best either. It's kind of that short snackable static video does perform well but static is like really where kind of the hero format.
- [18:46]
A
So I'm sure that you and your team and are analyzing and over analyzing all the other social media platforms as well in order to see what it can. How it can be different. So how do you see that the social media world slash E com slash. Sorry, not E comm. Social commerce and influencer marketing is shifting.
- [19:14]
B
I just think it's all. I mean you see it now. I mean Instagram just feels now like a shopping catalog. It's pretty much all I'm like my for you page is all it's not even friends anymore. It's more of like my news now. So I think those platforms have just transformed into entertainment companies and the brands and creators that are on there are kind of, you know, publishers themselves within that whole ecosystem and all the social.
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A
Media have become basically a search engine.
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B
Yes. And I love it, by the way, you know, I do like, you know, I'm going to Europe tomorrow and I've used a lot of my trip research through Instagram and through TikTok.
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A
So I think that's one of the big differences also of Bereal, that today you are not a search platform. You cannot search in the platform.
- [20:04]
B
And lar, that's all stuff that is going to be preserved. I think the essence and the beauty of Be Real is that it is, it's sort of, I see it as a really kind of healthy part of your digital diet where it is again, you know, what you're sharing and what you're seeing is real. You know, it's 100% human, which is, hey, it's certainly not what other platforms can say. And I like that it's not about keeping you trapped into the app. And I think our users really appreciate that too. I mean the polls from our audience and what they say about Bereal, I mean over 80% where they post the most, where they're most comfortable posting and where over 90% is where they're seeing moments with brands or creators that they're otherwise just not seeing on other platforms. Like I said, the Sydney Sweeney campaign that we ran is a perfect example because it's not a creative that would live on TikTok, it wouldn't live on, you know, Instagram. It's, it's just sort of the behind the scenes and you see that on Bereal.
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A
So I what's the future? Because you're saying that the influencers that they're getting paid to create content now, it's changing according to what you guys envision as a future of Bereal is completely changing because they are not going to be able to create this fancy content. It's going to be about the moment, I guess.
- [21:27]
B
But I think it's more than just the moment. We're sort of creating more of an ecosystem within the app now where there are things like verified profiles, there are, you know, ways to discover other people kind of close friends and ways of, to kind of grow your. It's not just close friends, but sort of grow your network on Bereal. So there's more you can do within the app outside of that two minute notification which is still, you know, it's basically where we see the biggest traffic spike every single day. So most of the posts kind of do happen in that two minute window, but there's opportunities all throughout the day for, you know, you to jump in, see what people are sharing. People are sharing in and outside of that window. You can post up to five times per day now. So there's more to do outside of that. And I think longer term we want more brands leaning into this canvas and I think again we know especially for the generation that is so consistent with Be Real. Everyone says authenticity, authenticity. This is a generation that's demanding it and I think it's a really neat channel for brands to now lean into. Again kind of in the brands that are having success on the organic side. We're seeing this consistently.
- [22:34]
A
Do you want to what about the part Jane's. Do you see that there are parents joining just to see what their kids are doing or hanging out? Do you see that there is a margin for that of yes.
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B
And I actually, I think a really cool use case too that I heard from a parent and actually a college student who uses Bereal is she you know she's in college. She's like it's my one thing I do every day with my dad. We always kind of jump in and it's like hey, like I'm good. So it's sort of this like check in touch point with maybe not someone you would text every day but sort of like oh they're good cool and just kind of like I just a very sort of solid real touch point and then checking and checking out. So I think that's kind of like a a fun you know sharing it with a parent and having that tracking of all the posts is really sweet.
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A
What about with this? Gen Z is growing up. They are trying to get Gen Alpha already or are you saying we're stuck in this group?
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B
There is actually to a Gen Alpha. I mean the app you can is 13 plus. So we are seeing that too as a. It's not where we're focusing our kind of growth efforts but there are some natural kind of runoff to that because it's their generation right under so they're seeing you know what are the big kids doing and they want to do it too. So we do have a teen a burgeoning teen audience as well. So yeah that's where kind of the, the solid growth is happening. And again when you sort of pair that with what we know is true about those generations too where yes there are. They're you know I just came from the gaming world so this is the same generation too that is expressing themselves quite regularly as an avatar and they're very comfortable doing that. So you see how in a platform like Be Real where you know again it is real raw what you actually look like and having That a part of your kind of digital diet, social diet, actually has, I think, positive influence on, you know, I just a personal story. I think having now worked at Bereal and just, you know, a different approach to social and what I'm sharing, I do care less about filtering or like how per picture perfect what's going up on other platforms, which I think is a healthy reset for me.
- [24:46]
A
It is for everyone. You know, let me ask you a question, because a platform like this, and mostly when you're talking about young adults, requires a lot of education and also to parents that they go and search and say this is safe for my kids or how it works. So how you guys approach that education for not only the parents but also the kids, they say, okay, mom, look, this is safe for me. And how you guys can manage safety.
- [25:13]
B
I know it's the only thing that we really take on from the brand safety standpoint is just sort of the fact that the app is maintained by, you know, 100%, everything is linked back to your individual phone number. Everything has to be taken natively in app. You know, we have moderation tools where we're looking at, you know, 24 hours a day, what's being posted, does it have imagery that doesn't meet our kind of safety guidelines? Is there any hate speech happening, anything like that? And then we have a human moderators on top of that. So as we're starting to build this sort of, you know, what we think is sort of a better for you social experience. It's not about wasting your time. It's really just sort of like human to human, raw, authentic daily moments and touch points. We're sort of preserving that. And I think, yeah, I think those are kind of the same, same things that we can convey as a platform to really any age, buyer, parent, et cetera, is that, you know, we're, we're watching the health and of the feed, but because we're not sort of driven by problematic bots or things that can kind of take you to a destination where you don't want to go. It's really just that one refresh daily FE and you know, in the brands that we're bringing into that feed as well, we are obviously, you know, ensuring that we're aligned with from, you know, brand perspective, company perspective, all of that. So I think that will all start to crystallize more as we scale and start to encounter maybe some problems. But so far so good.
- [26:42]
A
Well, Susanna, thank you so much for being here today. But before we go, I have one question.
- [26:47]
B
Yes?
- [26:48]
A
How do you drink your coffee?
- [26:49]
B
Oh, my gosh. Well, I am a coffee. I love all formats of coffee. So if I'm at home, I make a cortado. I'll pull double shot and froth milk. And then when I'm out and about, I always get a cold brew. So I'm in New York City today, and I usually do cold brew with whole milk and a little honey.
- [27:07]
A
Oh, thank you so much. Thank you.
- [27:08]
B
So good to see you. Thank you.
- [27:10]
A
Thank you guys. And I will see you next week with more coffee. Coffee number five.
- [27:15]
B
Okay. Thank you so much.
- [27:17]
A
Find everything you need@larashmoisman.com or in the episode notes right below. Don't forget to subscribe. Was so good to have you here today. See you next time. Catch you on the flip side. Ciao. Ciao.