← Coffee N° 5 with Lara Schmoisman
Coffee N° 5 with Lara Schmoisman
The Reality of Social Commerce: Creators, AI, and What Actually Drives Sales with Bora Mutluoglu
00:30:56
Loading summary
Transcript146 lines
- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
- [00:05]
B
This is coffee number five. I'm your host, Lara Schmoisman. Hi, everyone. How are you today? And I'm laughing because this is gonna be fun. We're gonna start this podcast in a very unusual way. I'm not gonna even try to say the last name of my guest, but I gonna tell you this. That is the. This one is going to be trendy and you want to listen to this podcast. So Bora, welcome. And you say your last name and you can try to say mine too if you want to.
- [00:35]
A
Okay. My name is Bora Muguolu. That's my last name. That's how you say it. The G is supposed to be silent. It's a last name. There's supposed to be a squiggle on it, but we don't have it here. And then I'll try to say your last name. Lara Schmoysman. Right?
- [00:49]
B
Very good, actually. Very good. Well, you got some points there. So. But this is not a game podcast. So I'm very excited to have you here because TikTok is the big trending world. Everyone is talking about TikTok. Everyone is saying you have to be on TikTok shop. You need to sell on TikTok shop. And I want to put out there that selling TikTok shop is not as easy as it shows.
- [01:13]
A
Right, right.
- [01:13]
B
So let's start with that and let's start how you created a platform called Reacher that help you reach and connect with creators through TikTok. And you have a. A very strong connection with TikTok. So let's start from the beginning and why you got so interesting idea of. Were you a tiktoker? You wanted to be working with TikTok? What, what was your story? What. How did you start this journey?
- [01:40]
A
Yeah, yeah. So I guess I can do a brief intro of myself. I'm the co founder of Reacher, one of the top TikTok shop so softwares for finding affiliates, working with them, managing them and we use AI in our. In all of our workflows. In terms of the story behind Reacher, so my co founder and I, Jerry, we've been working on companies for like four or five years now, which is kind of crazy to say. The first two companies we worked on both failed. And then he was working at Meta at Instagram Shop as an engineer and I was working at Peloton Networks as an engineer as well. But on the side I was also a creator, like a micro influencer. I have over 10,000 followers across various different platforms, which is not. That's exciting for most people these days, but, you know, it's micro influencer. Right. So I, I've been creating content on the side for a long time now. And then, you know, Sometime in late 2023, we had just failed our last startup and it was actually early 2024 when we, you know, we heard about TikTok shop and then we were looking for our next idea to work on and we just kind of dove into TikTok shop as the new platform. And it had and kind of intersection between Jerry's expertise and my expertise. Right. Him from the brand side and building tech for the brands, and me from the creator side and just doing creator stuff. So that's. We found TikTok shop and we, we believed in social commerce as we've seen the algorithms all shift. And then we just decided to try to build a solution for, for TikTok shop and that's how we ended up here today.
- [03:04]
B
Okay, so what was the problem that you found?
- [03:06]
A
Yeah, the problem was very, very simple actually in the early days. Now it's a much more complicated problem. As you probably know, being a TikTok shop operator yourself.
- [03:15]
B
I know, I know, but I really want to put the truth out here because there are a lot of myth about TikTok and that is so easy to sell on TikTok. And my principle is that first of all, something is so easy, it's not real. And second, it's that your product needs to be TikTokable if it's not tiktokable, otherwise it doesn't work.
- [03:37]
A
Yeah, yeah. So that I agree fully with everything you said. And in the early days, it actually was easy to sell because there was no competition or very little competition on the platform. And when I say early days, I mean the first few months of the platform actually being released. Right. So the problem that the brands were facing was that they couldn't message creators fast enough to like sell their products. Right. Because every creator was trying to work with every brand. There was like not that many videos. There were not that many brands and not that many creators, but the ones that were on the platform were just making tons of money because TikTok was really pushing and incentivizing all these e commerce videos they were subsidizing so customers could buy for free. They were subsidizing on the seller side so you could sell and make a ton of money. And then for creators, they're just paying out crazy commissions and crazy campaigns. Right. So all across the board, TikTok was just spending money to get people to be on the platform. So then the problem was that these brands were manually messaging creators and they couldn't message creators fast enough because there's thousands of creators. Right. So very simply the first thing we built was a python script to send spam and message creators on TikTok shop. That was the first solution and we kind of went from there.
- [04:43]
B
But. Okay, but there is more than that because I mean I use your platform but also I understand how difficult is to work with TikTok because also you have a limit as a new brand in TikTok. You need to have sales to be able to reach out to creators.
- [04:58]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that like as the platform matured to your point, they made it much harder to sell for new brands. Specifically because you go onto the platform. Early days there were no limits. Now you have a thousand message limit. You have to sell a certain amount to be unlocked to message more creators. You can't even Message creators above 25k followers right now unless you have, I think it was like 2000 sales dollars in sales per month. Right?
- [05:24]
B
Yeah. But at the same time TikTok is not a platform to know to sell high ticket products.
- [05:30]
A
Yeah, high. So you're talking about high aov. Like expensive.
- [05:33]
B
Yeah, expensive items. Yeah.
- [05:35]
A
So it did start off.
- [05:37]
B
It's harder to get to those thousand dollars. Two thousand dollars.
- [05:40]
A
Right. I mean there's, there's solutions out there. Like Celico is one that comes to mind that. Do you know Silico?
- [05:46]
B
I do know Silica.
- [05:48]
A
Yeah, yeah. So that's one that comes to mind where like you can kind of hack your way around these. These.
- [05:53]
B
Yes, you can hack your way, but also you need to keep hacking your way to get to 2,000amonth, otherwise you never get there.
- [06:02]
A
Right, Right. Yeah. So it's not sustainable is what you're saying. Correct?
- [06:05]
B
Exactly.
- [06:06]
A
Yeah. I mean the, if we want to get into like the true strategies of what works on TikTok shop for brands.
- [06:11]
B
Yes, let's do that.
- [06:12]
A
Yeah, it's, it's really a lot of manual work. Like I, I'm the co founder of an automation company so it's not in my best interest to say this, but the brands that use our software, they benefit after you've gone like 20k, 30k, 40k, they benefit a lot. Right. You can still benefit as a cold start brand using a software like ours, but really like there's a lot of manual work that people aren't doing that I think you should be doing. Right.
- [06:36]
B
So absolutely. Even your with your platform, I Found out that for younger brands, that you're not having that volume of sales, that using your platform is very useful. But also you have to be a lot of manual work as well.
- [06:50]
A
Exactly, exactly. You have to do both. Right. The problem that I see brands doing today that are new to the platform is they'll purchase a reach your subscription or a subscription from a competitor and they'll just send out as many messages as possible. But then they won't do anything on the back end of that.
- [07:03]
B
Right.
- [07:03]
A
Like they'll just send out the messages and expect sales. But what you have to do is you do have to send out all those messages and reach out to all those creators. But then once you get the sample requests coming in, you have to manually go in and review them to make sure you're actually approving good samples. Right. And then you have to manually go and make sure that you're like making these creators feel happy and building a relationship with them and then building a creator community. Like there's a lot of manual work after that initial message being sent and sample requests being approved.
- [07:28]
B
Yeah, but not only that, it's about the relationship. I mean, having a tool is fantastic, but if you don't build a relationship with your content creators, you don't send them really what you need, you're not warm. You're trying to compete to work with content creators that they have a good GmbH with many other companies. So how are you going to stand up for yourself? You need to create those flows in the right way that you're communicating why you stand out and why those creators will make money out of you. Because they're not doing it, because they just like you.
- [08:03]
A
Yeah, exactly. It all comes down to, especially initially, it comes down to the money that you can reasonably make with these creators and that the creators can make from working with you. And then to your point, like I, after this initial money, like, here's the money you can make, then it's like, okay, I can make the same amount of money from all these brands. Why would I pick your brand?
- [08:21]
B
Right, exactly.
- [08:22]
A
That comes to the relationship. So that's where I think a lot of brands are kind of failing. They're seeing these creators as like a money printing machine, but really they're just humans and they want to be, you know, they want to be talked to and become friends with you and kind of feel like loved by the brand or the agency they're working with.
- [08:37]
B
Yeah.
- [08:38]
A
And I think that's where a lot of agencies and brands kind of maybe not fail, but they don't do a good job of building that relationship and
- [08:44]
B
maintaining for, for us, it's, it's all about storytelling and how we connect not only with our audience, but also with kindness to work there. There are people in the other side, they are, and you need to be kind to them. If you, you build those relationships, they're going to create better content for you.
- [09:03]
A
Yeah, exactly. They should want to create content for you not because you're telling them to, but because they're like, oh, I love talking to Laura and like we talk about our day and things like that. And I want to actually work with her and I want to her to succeed so I can succeed. I'm curious, like how, how are you approaching that, that problem from, from your agency standpoint? And it's like relationship building with creators.
- [09:20]
B
Well, I, first of all in my agency and probably people, they are a little tired of me telling this story. We have one rule that is to be kind between us and with everyone from the outside. We are not tolerating things that they are not people that they are not kind or treating respectfully. So I think that that's motto was for everything. You need to be kind with your creators. You need to listen to your creators. Is the same to listen to your audience. Reviews are telling you stories. So you need to take the time and listen to the reviews and say what people are not liking about your product so we can address it. A problem is not real problems if you address what people are saying.
- [10:00]
A
Yeah, yeah. Looking at the reviews, that's an interesting one. I haven't heard many people say that, like what, how do you look at reviews for products and like what do you do based off the back end of like a really bad review or bad comments?
- [10:12]
B
Well, first of all, you always think that bad reviews, you need to answer them. You need to answer every review you can and you need to offer to make it better. But also I think that for example, we had a situation with one client, a beauty product that the founder loved the scent, but people found it a little strong, the scent. So it's something we can address. We can put it in the, in the brief. We can tell people to just mention it as a ucg. Hey, this smells like this. If something that can create problems, if you address it, it's not a problem anymore.
- [10:45]
A
Yeah, yeah. And it shows them that like you put in the extra efforts to actually listen to the review, not become angry back at them, but also like make a change to make it better.
- [10:55]
B
Okay, but we know haters are haters always. And you're always going to have people that they complain and they don't like your product, but it's how you respond to the problem.
- [11:03]
A
I see. So how do you and your team respond to, like, the haters that keep coming? Because everybody, to your point, everybody has haters. You know, everybody. No matter what you do, you will have haters. Like, if you're your motto, I like that model of being kind and being, being nice to everybody.
- [11:17]
B
How everything I say, well, I'm sorry that it didn't work out for you, or if we, we. First of all, I always talk to my brands about customer service. Customer service, it's super important. And they need to be addressing all these issues and they need to be listening to the reviews because there are a lot of things that we can do from the marketing side, but also there's a lot of things that they can do it in product side that even in the next batch that they do products, if there's something that they come up all the time, they can put it in the instructions or they can put it in the packaging. There are a lot of things that it can be addressed. The only problem is when you are not aware of the problems.
- [11:54]
A
Yeah. How about with, like, creators? Because that's customer support from the people that are buying the product. What about, like, you know, one thing I see a lot from, like, a lot of brands and agencies is when they're building a creator community, there's going to be a lot of creators that come in that are not serious about working and making good content, or they're just, like, asking a lot of questions, but they're not in a nice way and they're being mean. How do you, how do you, like, end up handling or those relationships with those kinds of creators?
- [12:18]
B
Just, you just tell them probably that it's not a good time for the partnership and that we're locking up in the future. And I think you need to give consistent feedback. Hey, we don't feel like you're the right voice for the brand or that at this stage your content doesn't match. Because also, as creators, they're looking for jobs. You need to think that there is a person in the other side. This is a job for them.
- [12:42]
A
Right. So you're. You're not, you're not. You're saying not to ignore them, but just give, like, let them down lightly, basically, like.
- [12:49]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [12:51]
A
I see.
- [12:51]
B
It's like a date.
- [12:52]
A
Yeah. Yeah. It didn't go well. You know, I'm not vibing with you. Yeah. No, I think that's a good, that's a good point. How do you do that across like thousands of creators though? Like, reasonable.
- [13:03]
B
I think that it's really important to have systems in your team. Like even if you have, I mean, you have a team and I'm sure that you. Interviewing people for roles, right?
- [13:12]
A
Yeah.
- [13:12]
B
And there are some people that are not a good fit and you give them a rejection email. That probably is a template that you have, but it's a nice template. So you do the same with creators and you allocate someone in your team that is doing their outreach to send how long it can take you just to send the same message. But you're being kind and respectful and today might not be a good creator for you, but for the next brand it could be a good fit. Yeah, they will be grateful that you acknowledge them.
- [13:40]
A
Yeah, that's, that's a good point. Actually. You never want to burn a bridge. I think some people, some people will like, let their emotions get the best of them and they'll, they'll burn the bridge and they'll say things they don't mean or they'll like, make themselves look very bad in certain actions they take. I think, like, I've learned in life there's kind of no reason to. To burn a bridge. So I like your motto, actually, I might, I might implement that in our company too. Like, be kind to everybody. You know, there's no need to.
- [14:02]
B
I love that. I really love that. Even. Let me tell you one more thing that we do. But then we're going to go back to creators. We do something that once a month is the Raising the Bar challenge. Because everyone always points fingers to people that they do things wrong. We point fingers to people that they do things right through the months. And then the team need to vote who raise the bar the most.
- [14:25]
A
Interesting. So it's kind of like a, you know, in like discord communities, they have like a hashtag WINS channel. Is it like.
- [14:30]
B
Yes, exactly.
- [14:31]
A
Oh, wow.
- [14:31]
B
I like that.
- [14:32]
A
And can, can people on your team like nominate anybody else or is it.
- [14:35]
B
Yeah, everyone needs to. No, no, you cannot self yourself self nominate you. You need to nominate someone else who did something extraordinary.
- [14:43]
A
Wow. So, so it's like, what's that called? Employee of the month. But it's like nominated by each other. Everybody.
- [14:48]
B
Yes. And they point fingers for the right reasons.
- [14:51]
A
I like that. It's a, you know, that's, that's really important, like this positivity and this positive mindset. Like one thing we learned during Y Combinator, which we just went through, is
- [15:00]
B
like, I want to ask about that too.
- [15:02]
A
Sure, we can talk about that too. But one thing I learned was like, there's no room for pessimism in a company, especially a small company that's trying to start. Right. Like, you know, every company, there's a lot of difficulties that you go through. Right. Like, there's times when customers are like pissed off. There's times when like someone messes up. There's times when you know you're not making money, things like that. Right. And like, if you're, if you're always pessimistic, that energy is just going to cause you to fail.
- [15:26]
B
Absolutely. You're setting yourself for failure from the beginning.
- [15:30]
A
Exactly. So that's one thing that we've like, it's really hard, I'm sure, you know, also as a founder, it's like really hard to always be optimistic because it is up to us to be optimistic.
- [15:38]
B
It is really hard. It's lonely up here. It's really lonely.
- [15:42]
A
It. It is, it is. It's especially. Are you, are you a solo founder
- [15:45]
B
or do you have a. Yeah, I'm a solo founder.
- [15:47]
A
So for you it's especially lonely. Like, at least I, I have like Jerry as my co founder. So like when times get tough, we like.
- [15:53]
B
You can vent.
- [15:54]
A
Yeah, we can rent. Yeah, we can vent. Exactly. So but that's like really important. Like really props to you for being able to maintain this like optimism and good mentality.
- [16:03]
B
It's really important. You can drown. Otherwise you can really drown and you still stop your growth. But let's go talk about Influencer, because I see a lot of the small brands with big dreams and working with influencers and content creators that already super big. What is the trend that you see with that working with super big creators? Is it worth it to go and pay them a nice chunk of money for them to sell the product?
- [16:30]
A
You know, I think it's, it's for, for like, if we're talking about a smaller brand whose goal is to like make money, I think these bigger influencers are good to partner with if you are going for brand awareness. Which is why like a lot of the times big enterprise brands will partner with a, you know, Kim Kardashian or something like that. Right?
- [16:47]
B
Yeah. Because at the end of the day, I think we always chasing the wrong metrics and people go for GMB or they go for roas, but at the end of the. What we want is lifetime value of a consumer. You want a consumer that will Come back and come back.
- [17:03]
A
Yeah, yeah. You want high ltv? I mean, most of these brands that I talk to that are like, on the smaller side or just getting started on TikTok shop, they don't have the budget for like a 1 million follower influencer anyways. Right. Or like a 50 million follower influencer. And like, what? It doesn't matter. The follower count doesn't matter anymore on Instagram or TikTok, because anybody can go viral for any reason. I mean, I recently went viral for a Waymo video that I posted, and I have 500 followers on TikTok, and I got a hundred thousand views on my video. Right?
- [17:29]
B
Yeah. But the followers are not there.
- [17:32]
A
Yeah, I don't have any followers. So how is that possible? Right. It's because of the algorithm. Because the algorithm shows people good content or what it thinks is good content, and if people interact with that content, then it shows it to more people. Right. So you can technically have a creator with a thousand followers reach way more people than a creator with, like a million followers if the content is good.
- [17:52]
B
Absolutely. We had a few clients that we went see viral and our followers count didn't move at all.
- [18:01]
A
Yeah, exactly. And people don't follow based off of that. They just look at the content like, oh, this is like, fun.
- [18:05]
B
Absolutely. So one more trick. I love that you started this podcast talking about your failures and that you were. You had two companies that they failed before, and then. I know. I love that about you because it's really important. I. I cannot even tell you. I don't. I lost count how many times I fail, and I keep failing. And that's okay because we learn from it.
- [18:28]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [18:29]
B
Make us stronger. So how is to going from companies that they failed to a company that is doing great? And on top of that, you got into Y Combinator and that. How was that experience? Because that's a very unique experience.
- [18:42]
A
Yeah, yeah. So companies that failed, I mean, it's. It's really hard each time, but I think each failure. I mean, it's very cliche to say, but each time we failed, we learned a lot. Right. Like, you learn about, like, equity splits. You learn about, like, how much to pay people, what to expect, have to have no expectations, like to. To handle your emotions, all that stuff. So I think each time we failed, we learned about a lot of things about ourselves and about how to, like, start a company and kind of be a good human being. Like, actually, we applied to Y Combinator every single time. Every company we had, we applied and we didn't get in any times until. Until this, Reacher. Right. So we applied for our first company, which was like an over the phone AI, you know, communication company. And they didn't. They didn't let us in. And they also gave us feedback. And then we, like, pushed back on their feedback. We're like, no, you're wrong. Which is very stupid of us to do because, like, it's Y Combinator. They know where they're talking.
- [19:33]
B
You were young. Let's excuse you.
- [19:35]
A
Yeah, so exactly. Right. It was the first time we had any company. We applied and we got rejected and we were like, angry or butt hurt. Our egos were hurt. Right. So we responded. The second time we got rejected, we didn't say anything. We're like, okay, no problem. The third time, we didn't even want to get in, actually. So we applied to Y Combinator and we applied to Andreessen Horowitz, a 16Z speedrun, which is like a competitor to Y Combinator, like a similar program. Yeah, we got into both and also, like, we didn't plan anything. Like, we took the video to apply the last 10 minutes or like last hour of the application window. We were in China with Jerry. We got to our hotel room and Jerry was like, hey, we need to take a video. I didn't even know about this. And I was like, okay. So we took a video and we just submitted it, like a random video. And then we got in and then.
- [20:17]
B
Shows you how authenticity, it's important.
- [20:21]
A
That's true. Yeah, authenticity. It was very authentic. It was like, I'm sure.
- [20:25]
B
It's like, I want to watch that video.
- [20:29]
A
Yeah, maybe. Maybe I'll post it on. On LinkedIn. I was like, this is the video that I'm thinking.
- [20:33]
B
I think you should.
- [20:34]
A
Yeah, that could be an interesting one. So that's what happened, right? And then we got into Y Combinator, and then we didn't even want it because we are, at the time, we already had a good amount of revenue and, like, we were. We weren't going to take it. The reason why we ended up taking it was because the COO of Shopify at the time, Kaz Najatian, he called Jerry on the phone and he's like, the COO of Shopify. Right. And we have no idea how he got his number. He called Jerry and he's like, hey, I'm Kaz. I'm the CEO of Shopify. He's like, you need to take Y Combinator. You need to do it. And we were like, this is crazy. Like, why is The CEO of Shopify calling Jerry us to take Y Combinator. So then we ended up taking it because of that reason.
- [21:12]
B
Well, and I think that was smart. It was a smart move because a business only can grow if you can keep growing as a person.
- [21:19]
A
Yeah, yeah. The reason why we didn't want to take it is because we thought we were like, too good or whatever. Like our revenue was too high. Because a lot of companies that joined my Combinator are pre revenue. Right. And we had a lot of revenue. I think end of the day, like, we have no regrets. Like, it was a great program. It was very difficult to do it. And we know a lot of really smart people now, and we're integrated into that community now because we did it, so.
- [21:42]
B
Yeah, exactly. And it's. At the end of the day, it's how you know and in what environment you. You are connected to. And getting to know smart people is always smart.
- [21:50]
A
No, that's a really good point. Like, the older I get, the more I realize it's like who you know is a really big deal. Um, and then your network. Your network is your net worth. That's the saying, right?
- [22:01]
B
Totally. And totally. And the fact that I always say this, that you make those relationships and if someone, you send an email, they will answer because you're you. If there's other people that they don't know, they won't answer that email. Probably.
- [22:16]
A
Yeah, yeah, you're right. It's a hundred percent.
- [22:19]
B
So relationships and you don't know. People move around that. You don't know what is going to be next in your life. But talking about next in your life, what's next for Reacher? Because I. I know you guys are keeping evolving and evolving.
- [22:31]
A
Yeah, yeah. Next for Reacher. There is a lot. I mean, we're going global where we're operational in all TikTok shop regions worldwide, except for Southeast Asia. We're not operational in like Philippines or Malaysia or anything like that. But Everywhere else, there's TikTok shop. We are active, we are growing a lot in terms of the tech. We're focusing on AI, which I think is like, everybody's tired of hearing the word AI, but we're in San Francisco. Everything around us is an AI billboard or an AI bubble. Right. So I know we are really focusing on, like, agentic workflows. We really think that in this, now more than ever before, is like the time that any company can scale a lot, any human can scale themselves a lot with all these AI workflows and tools that exist. Like, have you Heard of claudebot or openclaw by any chance?
- [23:17]
B
Of course, about this crazy Switzerland guy? Swiss guy created of course.
- [23:23]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's an example, like out of nowhere this guy created this like AI agent that you can basically program to be your executive assistant that has access to all your data and can just do a million things for you. Right. I don't, I didn't use it yet because I don't want to connect it to my personal information because I don't know exactly.
- [23:40]
B
I'm in the same boat. But I'm very curious.
- [23:43]
A
Yeah, I'm very well. So then there's other things though, like Claude Cowork is an example of like a more secure version of this to some extent. Like you can have Claude Cowork or like Claude Code do a bunch of these things for you. You can set up your own AI agents to like read all your emails and decide like remind you to follow up with people, things like that. Right. So in on that vein, we are trying to build those kinds of workflows into Reacher so that companies like, like yours and brands can scale without being worried about like finding the best talent.
- [24:10]
B
This is my question and this, I think that as an agency and brands, this is the biggest issue that we face when we're working with creators is we are reach and then many times there is no response. And how do we. Do you think that we can resolve that issue?
- [24:25]
A
So the reaching out and having no response issue. Are you talking about the Affiliate center specifically?
- [24:31]
B
Affiliate Center. We try even many platforms, a lot of content creator platforms and it's more. There are many times they're just ghosting.
- [24:40]
A
Yeah, there's. So there's two things I could answer that with. One is like a technical standpoint where we are working, we're always working on improving like AI creator search and like AI personalization messages. Because like if you can personalize the message to the creators, there's a much higher chance that they will respond, whether it's email, affiliate center, text, all that stuff. Right. Being able to reach out to them in these other venues like WhatsApp or text as well is something that we, we are continuously working on those should those methods.
- [25:09]
B
I'm really excited about that. Really excited. Because I think that there is going to be a much better chance to people to open their message.
- [25:17]
A
Yeah, exactly. You have to reach the people where they're at. If people are always texting or always whatsapping, then that's where they're going to respond. Right. The other thing I would Say is actually related to the point you made earlier, which is your network. Right. Who you know and who you will respond to. But like, if a creator doesn't know who you are or who I am, why would they respond to us? But if we already have a relationship with another creator, who that creator knows or who that creator is friends with, if this creator sends a message to the other creator, they, they might respond to that creator. Right, so through like who we know
- [25:47]
B
in the creator world, we know LinkedIn inside Reacher.
- [25:50]
A
Yeah, basically. Exactly, exactly. Yeah.
- [25:53]
B
LinkedIn for creators.
- [25:54]
A
You got your. Yeah, there's, there's ways to get around it and I think you just have to be creative or you just have to like try a bunch of different things to, to figure out what works.
- [26:04]
B
Okay, so from your point of view, what's going on in the influencer slash, affiliate slash, content creators industry? Where are we going?
- [26:14]
A
Where are we going?
- [26:15]
B
Because a lot of people are saying that influencers are dead, that brands are not putting so much money in influencers right now that everything needs to be through GmbH and trying to get sales. Content creators still want a flat fee. So there is a pushback from both sides. So where do you think are we standing and where are we going?
- [26:35]
A
I think the market is actively maturing, I don't think. I think these like statements that are very on one side or the other side, I don't ever like really agree with any of those kinds of statements, like the Internet is dead or like content creators are dead. I think there is a space for all of them still. I just think that it's changing. So, yeah, content creators, because the reason why they're able to charge a fee is because there's a huge demand for good content creators. There's not enough good content creators out there. Like if you look at TikTok shop platform, if you filter our database in Reacher, there's only like 7,000, 8,000 creators that are L3 plus making over 25k GMV.
- [27:10]
B
Right? Yeah. Something needs to be said of what you just mentioned that content creator is a lot of work. Creating good content is not easy. I mean, I think some people ask for crazy money. If someone wants to pay it, it's okay. But also I think if you want to be a content creator, you need to put the work. You just cannot ask for products and then ghost the brands. Or you need to put the work and deliver good content.
- [27:35]
A
Exactly, exactly. Like the people that are serious about this, they will stand out and they will succeed. Right? The people that are doing exactly what you just said where they're like, send me a product and they ghost and don't do anything. They're going to fall off and no one's going to work with them anymore.
- [27:47]
B
Yeah.
- [27:48]
A
So those, that's, that's how the, the market is maturing.
- [27:53]
B
But also there is a responsibility from the content creator. You should ask questions, not just go and get the product and create content because maybe you're mispronouncing the name of the product. Yeah, ask the Rust questions.
- [28:05]
A
Well, there are ways to do that the way. So this kind of goes against the whole affiliate commission only model. If you have, if you're open to doing retainers with creators, you can actually require them to follow guidelines. You can require them to like send the videos to you before they post it. Right now you'll have to find creators that are not going to charge a large amount for this, like maybe 20, 30 a video. But there are creators out there that will listen and we'll, we'll do this because they still want brand deals. Right. The other thing that is coming up more and more these days is AI content as well.
- [28:37]
B
How do you feel about that?
- [28:39]
A
I mean, I'm seeing more of it and it's pretty good, so. Well, how I feel about it is like if AI content is good enough and if it's better than a majority of affiliate content, that's another viable option for brands that's much cheaper than like paying retainers that they can use to supplement their, you know, their content strategy on, on TikTok or Instagram or whatever. I think at some point AI content will become good enough. If not better than a majority of affiliate content from humans, then it is what it is. Like if the content is better.
- [29:10]
B
Yeah. I mean, you guys are going to have to step it up.
- [29:13]
A
Exactly, exactly. Like it's, this is a free market, right. People can decide to use whatever they want. So if the affiliates start complaining that AI content is better than them, that they just need to become better than the AI content. Right. So I think AIGC is becoming more relevant and there needs to be a way for creators to utilize aigc. Maybe it's like their own Persona. Because people, I think will still want to follow people, but maybe like the content creator allows the AI to use their face and make content for them. Like the Jake Paul crazy videos that we've been seeing.
- [29:41]
B
I know. Well, Vora, thank you so much for being here with me today. I have one more question for you.
- [29:46]
A
Okay, let's, let's see.
- [29:47]
B
How do you drink your Coffee.
- [29:49]
A
How do I drink my coffee? Yeah, it's, it's just black coffee. Straight black, that's all.
- [29:54]
B
With a straw.
- [29:56]
A
So. Okay, the straw. The reason why I use straw is because I, I, I drink like five cups of coffee a day, which is really bad.
- [30:04]
B
Coffee number five, why do you think?
- [30:06]
A
There you go. Yeah, that's, that's why we're friends. So I drink like five cups of coffee a day. And my mom told me that if I don't drink with a straw. And also my, my fiance also told me this. If I don't drink with a straw, then my teeth will become brown. Oh. In order to preserve my teeth.
- [30:21]
B
I can tell you it didn't happen to me yet. So I think you're safe.
- [30:26]
A
Okay, then maybe I'll remove the straw because it's a little interesting.
- [30:29]
B
Well, thank you so much for being here. Really enjoyed this conversation.
- [30:34]
A
Thank you, Laura. Thank you for having me. That was a good question. I like that fun question at the end.
- [30:37]
B
And to you guys, I will see you next week with more coffee number five. Find everything you need at larashmoisman.com or in the episode notes right below. Don't forget to subscribe. Was so good to have you here today. See you next time. Catch you on the flip side. Ciao, ciao.