← The Art & Business of Writing Podcast with Nicolas Cole
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If you want to make money online.
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Then you might be thinking about launching a digital product. But what kind of digital product should you start with? A low ticket ebook or a mini course? A paid newsletter? A cohort based course? A monthly community? I have generated millions of dollars doing all of these. Our substack paid newsletter, right with AI, for example, does $400,000 a year in subscription revenue alone and over a million dollars as a vertical. Our cohort based course, ship 30 for 30, has done over $3 million in revenue. And we've dropped a new digital product every Black Friday for each, generating hundreds of thousands of dollars in like a single week and millions of dollars in revenue total every week. I mentor digital writers who want to monetize by building and selling digital products online inside our digital writing school. And by far the biggest question I get asked is which kind of digital.
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Product is the most lucrative?
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So in this video, I'm going to walk you through the six types of digital products, the pros and cons of each one, and how much you should charge depending on which one you pick.
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Okay, so the first thing I want to, I want to jam on is this idea about how you monetize with digital products. Now, just to. To get a quick sense, drop in the chat when you hear digital product monetization, what is the vehicle that you think of? Like, what is, what is monetizing digital products mean to you? Drop it in the chat. Someone said paid newsletter. Someone said digital courses. Someone said workshops, webinars. Someone said school should be like community. Selling ebooks or guidebooks or journals. Could be subscription. Wow, did not spell that right. Subscription to resources or tools could be mentorship, could be SaaS. Okay, so the reason I asked this question is because if you notice there is more than one answer there, there are actually a lot of different ways that you can monetize with digital products. The problem and the misunderstanding is that it is very common for people to use all of these terms interchangeably, meaning they think that a paid newsletter is the same thing as a digital course, or a digital course is the same thing as a school community, or a school community is the same thing as a subscription to resources and tools. You know, affiliates is another one. Okay, so the reason I'm pointing this out is because if you don't understand what game you're actually playing, it is very hard to win. How, how do you win at a game when you don't even know what game you're playing? All right, and so the first thing I want to do is just Educate everyone and and make sure we're all speaking the same language here on what do these different digital products actually mean and what are the differences between these vehicles? Because a paid newsletter is not the same thing as a live workshop, for example. Right. Which is not the same thing as an ongoing community. So it's really important to understand what are the benefits, what are the pros and cons of each individual vehicle? Alright, so let's go one by one real quick.
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If you want to write online but aren't sure where to start, click the link in the description of this video and check out startwritingonline.com this is a free masterclass I put together, sharing all of our most helpful frameworks for beginners, like proven hooks to capture your target reader's attention. Where to write online to get the most distribution on your work and little growth. Hacking tips to build your social audience and email list faster. Over 100,000 writers have gone through this free masterclass and many even send us emails afterwards thanking us for sharing such valuable information for free. So click the link below this video to check it out and make this year the year you start seeing success from your writing online.
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The very first is what I like to call low low ticket. Low low ticket means you are sub $99 in some way. Okay, usually. Usually what this really means is you are sub$49 in some way. Okay, but 99 we can just use as the general threshold. There are two types of digital products that typically sit in this range. First is the standalone, which is some sort of ebook or like single use digital. Course, I'll explain what that means. Or you have something recurring which is a paid newsletter which is typically around 10 to $20 a month and this is typically around 49 to $99. Okay, so in ebook, which is, which is very interesting, I want to share a nuance for, for everyone here. If you write an ebook and you put that ebook up on Amazon, the default assumption is, well, that ebook should be worth somewhere in the ballpark of 99 cents to $9. But if you write an ebook and you don't put it on Amazon and you maybe pair it with a couple videos throughout, basically saying the thing that is written inside of the ebook, you can charge five to ten times more. Why is that? It's the same content. The reason is because you're taking a product and you're putting it in a different context. If I take an ebook and I put it on Amazon, everyone puts the con like the context of that product is everyone puts it in the same ballpark as all the other ebooks that are on Amazon. All the other ebooks that are on Amazon are between 99 cents and $9. If I remove that product from the context of Amazon and I market it somewhere else and I call it something else and I maybe add in one or two other things, I can charge five to 10 times more. This is a very powerful concept. It is crucial to understand when selling digital products. Digital products are all about putting things in different contexts. Okay? And so an E book like this is what gets misunderstood. An E book and a like mini digital course is really the same thing, just plus a couple videos. Like that's real. That's really it. You're just taking the same text content, but maybe you're recording looms over each section, talking through it. Okay, now an objection or a question that a lot of people ask here is, well, Cole, why is that more valuable? Like it's the same thing? Like wouldn't, wouldn't customers be mad? They, it's an ebook, they should just pay $2 for it on Amazon. Why would they pay $49 for it? Just because you recorded a couple videos. The question to ask back, that I would ask back to you is, okay, when you're learning something, do you only need to hear it once? For everyone here, when you learn something, do you only need to hear it once and then you never need to hear it again? Of course not. You probably need to hear it a hundred times, right? And then the second question is, and do you only need to hear it in one way or do you need, do you need to hear it in multiple ways? Well, you usually need to hear it in multiple ways, right? It's helpful to not just read it, but also hear the person articulate it. Right? That's the reason why someone buys a book, but then also wants the course, but then also wants to attend the live workshop, but then also buys a plane ticket to attend the in person event. Right? It's not necessarily that. It's completely different information. In a lot of, in a lot of cases, it's the same information, but it's presented in four different ways. And that is valuable. Has anyone here, have you ever gone to an event and heard someone say something to you in person and you're like, wow, I don't know why. I know they said the same thing that they said in their book, but I, but I heard it differently, I internalized it differently. Has anyone experienced that? Yeah, happens all the time. I pay for very expensive masterminds to hear the person say the same thing that they said in their book in person. Because I hear it in a different way. I internalize it in a different way. Right. So that in and of itself is valuable. Okay, the recurring version. This is really important. A paid newsletter. A paid newsletter. Do not think of it like a paid newsletter. A paid newsletter is a book or an ebook that never ends. So I want everyone here to think of what is a nonfiction book that you have read that when you reached the end, you were like, damn, I really wish that there was more. Or you go back and you rewrite it again. Drop in the chat. What is a nonfiction book that you read? Atomic Habits. That makes sense. 7 Habits of Highly Effective people. What else? Yeah, it could be historical fiction or historical, like research and nonfiction. I will teach you to be rich. Super communicators. Okay, now let's go through and let's ask the question. Could you write about these things forever? Atomic habits. Could James Clear write about habit building and the science of building habits forever? Yes. Could you write about how to save money will teach you to be rich? Yes. Forever. For there forever. Right. Super communicators. Could you write about different communication styles and ways to communicate? Yes, you can write about that forever. Okay. A paid newsletter is just a book or an ebook that never ends. All right, Daily Stoics. Another. Another great example. This is a bit of a rabbit hole. I want to get into the specifics of paid newsletters, but we should save that for a different session. The thing that you need to internalize is the price point of this vehicle and really what the person's paying for. They're paying for a book that never ends. Okay? Now the mistake that a lot of people make when they want to get into digital products is they jump to recurring vehicles. They go, oh, I want to start a paid newsletter because recurring revenue. I want to start a community because recurring revenue. The thing that they don't know yet is that how are you supposed to do the recurring version when you haven't even done the standalone version? If you can't get someone to buy an ebook for $49, what makes you think that the person's going to pay you $20 a month, every month, for years? The recurring version. This is a really important idea for everyone to internalize. The recurring version is the level 2. It is the more advanced version of the standalone version. So you don't jump to recurring. You do the standalone first. All right. Does that make sense? Drop in the chat. Are we on the same page there? You don't jump to the recurring. You do the standalone first. And by the way, I'm eating my own dog food here. The very first digital product I ever built and sold on the Internet. I was 23, 24 years old. I wrote two ebooks. They were called Skinny to Shredded because I was really into bodybuilding at the time. One ebook was about my workout routines, one ebook was about my nutrition and what I ate standalone. Each book I think was. I don't even remember what I priced them at. Somewhere in the ballpark of like 20 to $40. And maybe you could buy the bundle for like 50 bucks or something. And I sold like tens of thousands of dollars of those ebooks with a very small audience. Very, very small. Standalone. Okay. So it is so much easier when you start standalone than when you try and jump to recurring. Okay, so this is the first one. Vehicle number two is a low ticket digital product, AKA some sort of course. Now this is not low, low ticket. This is low ticket. Okay? And low ticket typically falls in the air in the range of $99 to $350. Now that seems really specific. You might go, Cole, why is the top of that range $350? Well, after running, we ran 20. I forget what the final number was. Like 22, 23 cohorts of ship, 30 for 30, which was a live cohort based writing program. And then we also launched a handful of digital products to our list over the course of four years. We learned through a lot of testing that right around $350, the purchasing decision changes 350 or below. And I'm going to say this in sort of like, I'm going to be blunt on purpose. 350 and below. You almost think of the purchasing decision the same way that you think about like getting a new blender or something for your kitchen. You know, like your blender breaks and you go on Amazon and a new blender's like 199 or whatever blenders cost today, you know, and they're like. And you're like, ah, okay, I need a new blender. Something about 350 and below falls in this range of more of an impulse buy. Now obviously this is dependent upon just people's purchasing power. This also is dependent upon currency. Like when you're dealing with selling products in other countries and devalued currencies. Like they're. Obviously this is a range for a reason. But generally speaking, we will say that the ceiling that we have found is right around $350. Okay. And a Low ticket digital product is really just an expanded version of the ebook or mini digital course. That's really all it is. So if this one is, let's say it's 10,000 words and 10 videos. That's actually a lot. Even say It's a little five videos. This might be 30,000 words and 20 videos. I'm using fairly arbitrary numbers. All right. This is why you kind of have to think of these in levels because you should do this one first. The. The simple e book or mini, mini little digital product before you go and do the expanded version. Okay? Now, the misunderstanding that people have here and one of the most common questions that they ask when you're talking about monetizing digital products is people are extremely fixated on, on Cole, how long does this need to be? How many words? How many videos? The answer is it has nothing to do with word count or number of videos. The answer is, what is the problem that you are helping the person solve? And how long does it take for you to articulate to them how to solve it? Okay, so I'll give you a very extreme example. Let's say that the problem I'm helping you solve is setting up your first automated abandoned cart sequence email. You're a business owner. You have a business, you sell some sort of e commerce product. And I am going to educate you on how to set up an abandoned cart email sequence. Okay, everyone drop in the chat. At what point is the customer, when are you successful in creating that product? What do you have to help the person do? They have to launch an abandoned cart sequence. That is the point of the product, right? So your product goes, I will show you how to set up an automated abandoned cart email sequence. And your product, your information, your education works when the other person sets up an automated abandoned cart email sequence. It's so unbelievably simple that it's complicated. Okay, now the question of Cole, how long does it need to be? Is the wrong question to ask. The question to ask is, what do I need to create such that when a person goes through this, they have no other questions and they know exactly how to set up an automated abandoned cart email sequence. That's the only thing that matters. Doesn't matter if it's 20,000 words or 100,000 words. Doesn't matter if it's 5 videos or 50 videos. The only thing that matters is did you get them to do the thing that you said that you were going to help them do? Does that make sense for everyone? Okay, it's very simple. But It's a very complicated concept. All right? And so if you think about this higher price point in order to charge more money, that typically means that you are helping people solve harder problems or bigger problems, right? So before you jump to solving bigger problems, maybe you should start by solving a smaller problem first. This is where an ebook or some sort of digital course is really effective, right? Our digital products, maybe 350 bucks. I'm going to something around help you start writing online. That's a bigger problem to solve, right? Much smaller problem is like, hey, you don't know how to write a thread on X. That's the only thing I'm going to help you do. Just one tiny little thing, right? The expanded version would be I'm going to show you how to write tweets and threads and what to retweet to tap into the algorithm and tap into virality and who to engage with and how to send DMS and how to create a pinned post. It's just the expanded version of the smaller version. Okay. The last thing that I want to share about this vehicle is let's assume that you have worked up to this and you want to solve a slightly bigger problem and you understand that it's an expanded version. Great. I will tell you that universally most people think here, and it's a faulty belief, most people think here, if I charge less, more people will buy. So in this range, instead of defaulting to the higher end of the range, they default to the lower end of the range. So they go, Instead of charging $200, I'm going to charge $100. Instead of charging 300 or $350, I'm going to charge $100. And universally, because we ran these tests, I will tell you what happens. You get more customers, more people buy and you make less money. You are almost always better off. If you're going to play in this range, you should default to the top of the range. You will make more money, you will make more revenue because this is the range. Now, when you cross 350, a new purchasing decision comes into place. Okay. Which leads to vehicle three, which is some sort of cohort based experience. And this is where you go from about 350 to right around $1,000. 999. Okay, so before I talk about this, so MD good question. When do enablement tools come into play? You also give prompts and templates. So those either can make for really great small products. Here's a bundle of templates or here's a singular really valuable template. Even, or they make for great bonuses and additions to larger products. Like, if you notice almost every single digital product we build, we're like, and we also give you AI prompts and we also give you these templates. We do that just because we want to make it more valuable. More valuable. More valuable. But you can absolutely use that as just like a standalone product. And yeah, susheel, I mean, you could use, you could use all of these things as free lead magnets. That's why I. The very first thing I said is digital products is a game of context. You can take the same product and you could decide to make it a lead magnet. You could make it a low, low ticket digital product. You could expand it and make it a low ticket digital product. It's all about the context that you put it in.
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Hey, by the way, if you're brand.
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New to the world of ghostwriting, maybe.
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You'Ve heard the term, but aren't really sure what it is or how it's different from copywriting or content writing, check out premiumghostwritingblueprint.com, it's in the description below.
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Okay.
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This is a free masterclass that I've put together for writers who want to monetize their skills and love for writing. With ghostwriting. This is what I did. And ghostwriting completely changed my life. It's how I quit my job. It's how I quadrupled the amount of money I was making. It's how I've gotten to work with so many smart, amazing people, but also have time for my own writing, like writing this book. The Art and Business of Ghostwriting. Anyways, check it out. If you're at all interested in making money from your writing, I would really encourage you to get into ghostwriting. And this free premium ghostwriting blueprint in the description below is the best place to start.
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A
Okay, so now here's where things get fun. Drop in the chat. What do you think the difference is between vehicle two, which is a low ticket somewhere in the ballpark of 99 to $350, and vehicle three, cohort based experience 350 to 999? What is the difference between these two vehicles? It is that vehicle three is inexperience. It is not different information. In most cases, it is the same information. It's the exact same information. The only difference is, yeah, it might be a little more expanded. Like in ship 30, we. We would give like 30 days of templates, for example, you know, so we created that just for ship 30. Right? Like, yeah, you Might expand it a little bit. It's not, it's not like I'm gonna teach some completely different thing. Most of the information is the same, but you're expanding it a little bit for the context of the thing. And then it's really that it's experiential. Now experiential could mean, it could mean accountability, it could mean community. But generally speaking, it really is like, just to simplify it, it's just the difference between asynchronous and live. Again, you hear it differently. It's one thing to read it, it's another thing to read it and watch videos of it. And it's another to read it and watch videos and show up live on zoom and hear it there. I mean, look at what we're doing here. Like every, everything that I am walking through here, this is, this is already inside digital writing school. Whether you've gone through it yet or not, it's all the information is already there. The reason that you're here is because hearing me articulate it allows you to learn it in a different way. That's the value, right? And then also there's some interaction. You could ask questions, right? But like, really, that's the value. And so I'm pointing that out so that everyone here, if you want to build some sort of cohort based experience, realize that it's not about reinventing the wheel, it's about doing the thing that you did in the vehicle below it, live. Okay? And when you do this, this is why the price point changes. Because if you think about it like the val, of course you're going to charge more because you're using and you are giving your most valuable asset, which is time. Right? So the price point goes up because the level of experience goes up. Okay? And this is the order in which you should pursue these digital product vehicles, by the way. Okay, so does that make sense? Vehicle three, cohort based experience. It's, it's essentially the same thing as a low ticket digital product. Now what's cool before I move on, what's really cool about these is I would actually think of them as being paired together. So you will see us do this this year because we're gonna, we're gonna execute this with digital writing school. So if you, if it's kind of meta, but if you want to like really see how this works, just pay attention to what we do. Okay? Creating the low ticket digital product is really the forcing function for you to crystallize all of your thinking. How do I explain to someone how to do the thing that I want them to do, how do I help this person solve this problem? How do I help this person unlock this outcome? When you build the digital product, it's the forcing function for you to make all those decisions and create something. Once that thing is created, you can double monetize it by going, and now I'm going to create the opportunity to teach it live. It's the same content, but it's a different experience. Okay, so when we create digital products, when I sit down for a month, two months, three months, and I work on a new digital product that I think is going to help people solve something, I'm going to put it inside digital writing school and you can go through it. But then at some point in the future, I'm also going to go, hey, do you want to do this live with me? Great. The live component is a different product. It's a different experience. Okay? And the value is that you get to hear it in a different way. It's going to hit you in a different way. You're going to learn in a different way and you probably get the opportunity to ask questions and power level your own knowledge. But these two things work together and so don't, don't view them as I have to make a decision, I have to do one or the other. You should view them as vehicle two is what leads to vehicle three. And you can and should do both. Okay, now here's where things start getting a little advanced. Vehicle four is community. Communities are typically in the range, I'm going to say anywhere from $10 a month all the way up to about 199amonth. But the real answer, I would just default to around $99 a month. Okay, what's so interesting about communities? And this took me and took us a long time to learn, Communities are actually one of the hardest business models. We have a little saying internally, which is everyone loves the idea of recurring revenue until they realize that they've just signed themselves up for recurring work. Okay, so why are communities so challenging? Well, the reason I'm walking through these, in order, why are communities so challenging? Because a community is actually the culmination of the three vehicles that come before it. Because in a community people expect information, which AKA is digital products, whether it's entire courses or mini courses. If you notice inside digital writing school, there's a reason why we have both of these. We have full blown digital products and we have these cartridges that are like these mini products. What are those? That's vehicle one. Low, low ticket, that's Vehicle two, low ticket digital product. Right. So they expect some sort of information. They also expect some sort of live component. We are doing this right now on Zoom, right? It's like, yeah, great, I want the information, but I actually want to learn it in a different way. Right? Third, Sometimes, but usually there's some sort of expectation around Q and A. Great, we talked about this. We're going to be doing this as well. People want there to be interaction. And then fourth, you want some sort of community so the ability to meet other like minded people, which is great. This can happen inside of school. We built something really cool when we were doing this with ship 30 that allowed people to meet up that we're going to, we're going to build inside DWs as well so that you can connect with other like minded people. But these four things, if you notice, are really just the combination of low, low ticket with low ticket with a cohort based experience. The community is really just the evergreen version of that. So instead of running cohorts, like we would run a 30 day cohort once a quarter, basically. So instead of running cohorts, a community is just ongoing, but because it's ongoing, you almost want to think about it like a cohort based experience that never ends. So the same way that a paid newsletter is a book that never ends, a community is just a cohort based experience that never ends. So the reason why I say that this is more advanced is, well, look at, look at all the different skills that you're combining. It's very hard to actually jump to this as a vehicle. You should just do these in order. You should build a low, low ticket product, then you should expand it and build a full blown low ticket product. Then maybe you should run it as a cohort, maybe run it as 10 cohorts and then learn and iterate, learn and iterate, learn and iterate and then maybe launch it as a community. Does this make sense? Is this clicking? Is this helpful? Have you ever heard it articulated this way before? Awesome. I'm glad. I mean these are all things that we've learned over the past, you know, five years at this point. So that's my goal here, is just open source all of our learnings and pass them along. Okay. Which leads to vehicle five, the most advanced, which would be high ticket group coaching. So the example here is this is basically what PGA is. PGA is all of these things plus usually some sort of one on one coaching component, AKA increased accountability. And it's anchored to some sort of. Financial related skill or outcome. So for example, inside of PGA we help freelance writers reposition themselves as ghostwriters and build the skills, packaging and pricing to sell premium services. What is the point of that? The point of that is to help writers generate more income for themselves. Right. Most high ticket group coaching programs are somewhere in the ballpark of around $3,000 to upwards of. I'd say the average is probably like $10,000. Okay. They're usually flat, flat fee and they last anywhere from four weeks to, I mean six months, could be, you know, maybe even a year. But usually they fall within this range. This is by far the most difficult and most operationally complex business model. I would not recommend jumping here at all. The only reason I'm sharing it is just so that you get a lay of the land. The amount of resources that it cost us to run ship 30 for 30 or for us to launch digital products and do hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue in like five days or seven days, it's like almost nothing. These are extraordinarily lucrative vehicles. 80, 90, 95% margin. High ticket group coaching is a completely different beast. We have 30 full time team members for PGA. We, we have, I forget what the number is, but we run something like 2 million zaps a month. We, it is extraordinarily complex and very, very difficult. And so there's a reason why most people stay in this range because these, these are very easy business models, relatively speaking. And the Last 1, vehicle 6, is really the advanced version of high ticket group coaching, which is some sort of mastermind. Masterminds are typically in the range of $10,000, all the way up to $100,000. Okay. And so a mastermind is really all of these things plus value of the network of people in the mastermind. Okay. So when you join a really high ticket mastermind, you want some sort of education. You want to be able to talk to an account rep or like someone that you can ask questions with. You want to be able to show up to maybe a monthly zoom call. You want all of the things that come from all of the vehicles before it. And, and the reason you pay a premium is because then once, twice, three times a year, you go and you're in the same room as a specific group of people that you want to be in. So for example, I'll just share with everyone three years ago, and then two years ago we didn't this past year, but three years ago and two years ago we joined a mastermind specifically on building and scaling sales teams. This mastermind was $68,000 for the year. That's not a small amount of money. And we paid for it two years in a row. Okay, so that was upwards of $130,000 in the, for this mastermind for, for two years. What did we get? We got lots and lots of small, low, low ticket products that we could look at and reference and that were helpful. We had a bunch of digital products and courses to help us with individual things that we wanted to learn. We had some sort of live component. It wasn't structured as cohort, but we had a live component where we could show up to zooms and ask questions. The guy whose Mastermind, it was like once a quarter or something, we, we got to do a call with him. There was also a community component. We were inside of a group with lots of other people at our stage of business. So we got to connect with other people, made some friends, got to see inside other people's businesses. And there was a high ticket component in the sense that we had a csm, a customer success manager, an account rep that we could talk to. We would do like bi weekly calls with them. They would review some of the things that we were working on. And then on top of all of that, once a year we went to an event. Like one year we went to Cabo and we went to this big convention center and we connected with a bunch of other entrepreneurs. And you know, we got to be in the same room as people doing the thing that we were trying to do. So a Mastermind is just all the things we talked about, plus and this specific group of people. And was that worth it? Yeah, we joined that Mastermind right when we started pga and that Mastermind helped us tremendously grow PGA into what it is today. So these are the different vehicles. So whenever people are like, I want to get into digital products, the vast majority of people, they don't even know what the vehicles are. They don't even know what game they're playing. And they don't know the different price points associated with each vehicle. And if you don't know those things, then how are you supposed to be successful? Right? And what happens, what happens more often is people think, you know, they think a paid newsletter is a community or they think a community is a digital product. They use these words interchangeably, not understanding the expectations the customer has at each level. If a customer joins a Mastermind and you give them a low, low ticket digital product, they're going to be pissed. Right. And so it's really important to understand what, what are the expectations the customer has so that you can deliver on them? And, and also from a pricing perspective, one of the biggest mistakes that people make is they pick price points that aren't related to the vehicle they've chosen. So they're like, I'm going to start a paid newsletter that costs $300 a month. It's probably not going to work, right? Or I'm gonna, I'm gonna do a cohort based experience, but I'm gonna charge five grand. It's probably not going to work because at that price point, people are expecting something different. They're expecting something more like high ticket group coaching. So does this make sense? Does everyone get this? I felt like this was a really important topic to cover is you have to understand what game you're playing, what, what expectations the customer has and what expectations you're setting. When you pick the price point that you are, the price point reinforces the vehicle, which sets the expectations.
- [41:31]
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By the way, if you're brand new to writing online and want a really easy place to start, I recommend reading the Art and Business of Online Writing. I wrote this book after I'd been writing online for over a decade and accumulated over a billion views on my work, monetizing my writing in all sorts of unconventional ways. And I wrote this book to give other writers like you a way to skip all the lessons that I had to learn the hard way and start seeing success from your writing a whole.
- [41:55]
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Lot faster than I did.
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So if writing online is something you're thinking about or something you're actively practicing, I recommend picking up a copy of the Art and Business of Online Writing.
- [42:04]
A
All right, this was great. Any, any top of mind, quick questions before we, before we break here? Drop in the chat, Anything unclear, anything you want me to expand on? But this is what we're going to hammer home. And inside dws, I want to talk about each of these vehicles individually. Whatever vehicle you pick, whatever thing you want to build, that's fine. But just know the expectations that come from that vehicle. And for everyone here, if you're brand new to digital products, this is where I would start. A low, low ticket. Help someone solve one small specific problem in detail inside of an ebook, plus a couple videos, $49 to $99. If you can do that, you can expand it. If you can't do that, you. There's no point in talking about anything else. This is the first skill to build. So, Alex, I work at a university where we offer courses. Those could be considered vehicle three. You also Have a course. Do you recommend breaking it up into pieces and still doing vehicles one and two? Yes. I would still say no matter what, if you haven't done some of these things, start at the beginning, it's never going to hurt you. It's never going to be wasted time. If you build a low, low ticket digital product and then you decide to move on thereafter, you can always use that original thing that you made as a lead magnet. You could always use it as a bonus. You could always use it as bundling it into something else so it's never wasted time. But I would still encourage you to go back to the very beginning. And sushil, how do you sell vehicle one and two when you do not have a large audience or following? I sold $10,000 of my fitness ebook when I had less than 3,000 followers. Just so everyone here understands you do not need some giant audience. What you need is to write about something consistently and then build a low, low ticket digital product that helps that sort of person reading that sort of thing with one specific thing and the other. And the other is you actually don't know if you don't have something for sale. The only way to know, the only way to start iterating is by creating your first product. Then you will start to get data, then you will start to learn. Eli, can I give more details on the one person publishing? Where is that? Oh, here. Yeah. So this is for anyone who's interested in publishing a book. This is something I put together. I have self published 10 books on Amazon and I've also built a handful of really cool flywheels around publishing books, like how you can combine them with newsletters and things like that. So if you're interested in publishing a book on Amazon, I would really encourage you to go through this. It's called one person publishing empire. This is step by step everything that you need to do in order to successfully upload a book to Amazon. Okay. So if you're interested in that, I would go through this. I built this for a reason. I get asked this question all the time. There is a lot of little minutiae. Like for example, every book needs what's called an ISBN number. And ISBN is this little barcode at the bottom. Okay. You have to go to a very janky website in order to buy one. It's a whole process. Okay. So I took the time to document all of this so that anyone who wants to do this, you can just go through it. It'll answer all of your questions. But this is for specific to if you want to write and publish books on Amazon and then you could also sell them on your website too. Does this work for every kind of niche? Yes. A theme you will hear me say often in in digital writing school is if you are sitting there asking, does this work for my niche? The answer is yes. The answer is always yes. It is never a problem with the niche. It is a skill issue. You have new skills to build upcoming DWS products. Oh, too many to count. Too many to count. We got a bunch in the hopper. I'm really excited about them. Um, okay, last question. Bernardo, how would you frame the use of digital products to increase brand awareness and drive traffic to a non digital product? For example, I run an investment fund, so the objective would be increasing the number of clients to my fund. Yeah, a digital product. So so much of info and education is just picking a specific problem and helping someone solve it. And you can help them solve it for free. You can help them solve it by them paying you money. It really doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. It's just you, you decide, do I give this away for free? Do I, do I force them to pay? A big reason why there's actually a reason to charge for it is because when you give things away for free, people don't value them. When, when someone has to pay for the information, suddenly they're motivated to do something with it. So if you run a fund and you're, let's just say hypothetically, you're trying to attract like moderately high net worth individuals who want to invest in multifamily real estate. I'm just making this up, right? And the average person that you're targeting is somewhere in the ballpark of like 2 to 10 million net worth. I might create a digital product that's centered around, you hit $3 million in net worth. Now what, how do you diversify and what are the different things that you should diversify in? And one of the recommendations I would make is multifamily real estate. Right. So you're just picking a problem and you're creating education that helps the person solve that problem. Awesome. This was a lot of fun. Thanks, everyone. Happy Monday. Hope this was a good start to your year. And we'll see you next week. All right, see you everyone.