The Search For Sheree | Bonus: The Causey Search | 15

Summary

Cold Podcast: The Search for Sheree | Bonus: The Causey Search | Episode 15

Host: Dave Cawley (with reporting by Dan Rascone)
Date: September 13, 2023

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Episode Overview

This bonus episode provides an in-depth look at the recent excavation near Causey Reservoir in Northern Utah, as investigators search for potential graves connected to the cold cases of Sheree Warren and Joyce Yost. Host Dave Cawley recounts the evidence leading up to this search, the detailed process of the dig itself, and the lingering questions and emotional realities faced by those seeking to uncover the truth in decades-old missing persons cases.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Context and Cases Connected (00:00–09:00)

• The episode opens with a vivid description of detectives excavating a possible clandestine grave near Causey Reservoir.
• Background:
  • Sheree Warren disappeared in 1985 after planning to meet her estranged husband.
  • Joyce Yost was kidnapped and murdered a few months earlier; her case is featured in Cold Season 2.
  • Both cases are likely unrelated, but geographic and circumstantial parallels exist.
• Quote:

  "These two cases, Cherie Warren's and Joyce Yost's, are likely unrelated, but they occurred in close proximity to one another in space and time. Over the last nearly 40 years, they've bled into one another." — Dave Cawley (01:19)

2. Recap of Joyce Yost and Sheree Warren Cases (03:17–07:32)

• Joyce Yost Case:
  • Assaulted and kidnapped by Doug Lovell, who later killed her and hid her body.
  • Yost bravely reported her attack despite fears of humiliation and retaliation.
  • Lovell’s conviction occurred without a body being found.
• Sheree Warren Case:
  • Disappeared after leaving work, last planning to meet her estranged husband.
  • Police initially focused on Charles Warren (estranged husband), but also suspected ex-boyfriend Kerry Hartman, a former police reserve officer.
  • Several unusual clues, including her car found in Las Vegas, complicated the investigation.

3. Why Causey Reservoir?—Links and Leads (07:44–14:12)

• Anonymous Tip:
  • In 1987, a caller claimed to have found a woman’s body near Causey, but would not provide more details.
• Suspect Connections:
  • Witnesses placed Kerry Hartman in the mountains behind Causey soon after Sheree disappeared; his friends owned cabins there.
  • Doug Lovell (in Joyce’s case) was also linked to the Causey area through interviews and later informant tips.
• Repeated Frustrations:
  • Both police and podcast investigators chased multiple leads in the remote, rugged lands around Causey Estates, digging based on maps, aerial images, and informant “drawn maps” that never yielded remains.
• Quote:

  “Sorting fact from fiction remains a major challenge in these two cases. But what I hope you’re seeing is a lot of circumstantial evidence points toward Causey Reservoir as an important landmark in the disappearances of Sherry Warren and Joyce Yost.” — Dave Cawley (14:12)

4. The Search: From Aerial Images to On-the-Ground Investigation (15:54–22:24)

• Discovery of the Rock Pile:
  • Dave Cawley analyzed historic aerial images, finding a suspicious 6 ft. by 3 ft. pile of rocks along an old jeep trail near Causey Estates (16:41).
  • No similar piles existed nearby, increasing suspicion it could mark a grave.
• Journalistic Ethics:
  • Cawley struggled with whether to involve the police and how to maintain independence as a journalist (17:36–18:56).
  • Ultimately, he shared his findings with Detective John Frawley, prompting Roy City Police to act.

5. The 2023 Excavation—Methodical Search and Emotional Stakes (22:24–30:03)

• The Dig Unfolds:

  • KSL reporters and police methodically documented and excavated the site, using advanced 3D scanning, drones, and careful sifting.
  • Memorable Moment:

    “With the rocks removed, we could see the pile had covered a divot or depression. The ground under the pile sat 8 to 10 inches lower than the surrounding soil. This, I had learned, could be a clue because when a buried body decomposes, the ground above it may settle.” — Dave Cawley (25:28)

  • Careful soil sifting, attention to every fragment; a .22 shell casing was among the only items found.

• Tension and Disappointment:

  • The mood turned from hope to disappointment as the hole deepened, and no remains were discovered.
  • Quote:

    "By mid-afternoon, the hole reached a depth of between 2 and 3 ft.... Proof. No one had previously dug a hole that deep at the site. It might have looked like one, but Detective Frawley said the rock pile didn’t mark a grave.” — Dave Cawley (29:03)

• Reflections on the Nature of Cold Case Work:

  • The fruitless search is framed not as failure, but as progress—another possibility checked and another moment raising public awareness and pressure on suspects.
  • Quote:

    “If there is a place to dig, we’re going to dig. If there is a place to search, we’re going to search. And we’re just not going to stop. So we will follow every tip and every lead.” — Detective John Frawley (29:41)

6. The Broader Meaning & Call to Action (30:03–End)

• Importance of Perseverance:
  • Despite the lack of findings, the investigation continues, with hope that one day answers will emerge.
• Ongoing Dedication:
  • The Cold Podcast team, especially Dave Cawley, remains committed to these cases and encourages anyone with information to come forward.
  • Quote:

    “A fruitless search is not defeat. It’s a step on the path toward truth. This will not be the last search.” — Dave Cawley (31:54)

• Resources for Victims:
  • The episode closes with information for survivors of abuse and sexual violence.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the difficulty of cold cases and hope:

  "If Cherie Warren or Joyce Yost are up here, can we ever really hope to find them? Maybe not. This is the real nature of cold casework, its perpetual disappointment. And yet, I refuse to accept a fatalistic view. This search mattered for many reasons." — Dave Cawley (30:03)

• On searching every lead:

  "If there’s a place to dig, we’re going to dig. If there’s a place to search, we’re going to search. And we’re just not going to stop." — Detective John Frawley (29:41)

• On the process being as important as the outcome:

  "A fruitless search is not defeat. It’s a step on the path toward truth." — Dave Cawley (31:54)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–03:17: Introduction, setting, and recap of how Causey became a focus
• 03:17–07:32: Detailed case summaries for Joyce Yost and Sheree Warren
• 07:32–14:12: Exploration of early tips, evidence, and suspect connections to Causey
• 15:54–22:24: Discovery of the rock pile and ethical dilemma as a journalist
• 22:24–30:03: The dig itself—methods, atmosphere, and reactions
• 30:03–End: Reflection, call to action, and conclusion

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Summary

This episode of Cold exemplifies the tireless, emotionally fraught work behind investigating unsolved disappearances. Through meticulous storytelling, Dave Cawley details both investigative process and the human toll on those seeking closure. Despite the outcome of the latest search, the episode underlines that every effort matters, each lead brings hope, and the pursuit of truth continues.

Transcript

[Dave Cawley]

This season of the Cold podcast includes descriptions of rape, sexual assault, murder and domestic violence. Please take care in listening. Each swing of the pick brought a loud clank of metal against stone. Sweat dripped from the faces of the detectives who took turns heaving shovelfuls of dirt into an orange bucket next to them. Standing over a blue tarp, CSI workers sifted loose dirt through a mesh screen, pausing to peer at any odd roots or rocks. What they really hoped to find were fragments of bone. Roye City police and Weber county crime scene investigators, along with search and rescue staff, conducted an excavation of a possible clandestine grave near Causey Reservoir in the mountains of Northern Utah on August 23, 2023. They were looking for skeletal remains, possibly those of Shuri Warren.

[Dan Rascone]

After this.

[Dave Cawley]

How many years has it been, Dave?

[Dan Rascone]

Three? Yeah, 38. 38. I would think after that time they might just be getting long bones, big bones.

[Dave Cawley]

Cherie Warren's case and these mountains that may hold secrets about her fate have consumed my attention for quite some time. You've heard the result. The story of the search for Cherie is chronicled in Cold Season three. Through months and years of research, I honed in on this specific spot as a possible place to look for Cherie Warren's remains. Circumstantial evidence suggests one of the two named suspects in Cherie's disappearance could have known this place very well. There was also an outside chance this site could hold evidence related to the murder of Joyce Yost, the subject of Cold Season two. These two cases, Cherie Warren's and Joyce Yost's, are likely unrelated, but they occurred in close proximity to one another in space and time. Over the last nearly 40 years, they've bled into one another. We've now taken detailed looks at both in this podcast and heard repeated references to Kazi Reservoir.

[Dan Rascone]

The Kazi area is about 20 miles east of Ogden.

[Dave Cawley]

There's a Causey reservoir.

[Dan Rascone]

Yeah, this Kazu state's up here.

[Dave Cawley]

Did you ever hunt in the Kazi Reservoir area?

[Dan Rascone]

Kazi is an area up the canyon. He scooped her body up and they drove to Causey. You got two reservoirs up there that are deep Causey and was cr really steep trails going up to the right.

[Dave Cawley]

Hand side of Causey. That's why Roy city police invited myself and several of my colleagues from KSL tv, the Salt Lake City based news station I work for, to watch as they excavated this site. Breaking news happening right now. Law enforcement agencies in Weber county are digging right now what appears to be.

[Dan Rascone]

At a burial site that might be connected to a four decades old murder case.

[Dave Cawley]

But if you're not in Utah or don't watch the news here, you probably didn't hear anything about this. So let me bring you up to speed. In this episode, we'll review the evidence that points to the possibility of a gravesite near Causey. We'll go to the site of this dig and I'll share where the search for Sheree Warren stands now that the dust has literally settled. This is a bonus episode of Cold Season 3, the Causey Search from KSL Podcasts. I'm Dave Cawley. Let's begin with a recap of the Joyce Yost and Cherie Warren cases. Both had their start in the area of Ogden, Utah, back in 1985. Joyce's case came first. That April, a man Joyce had never met followed her home from a club. Late one night, Doug Lovell confronted Joyce in the carport outside her apartment in the city of South Ogden. Lovell sexually assaulted Joyce, kidnapped her, and held her captive. Joyce, fearing for her life, promised not to tell anyone what Lovell had done if he just let her go. He did. When Joyce made it to safety at home in the early morning hours, she called her sister. This is Joyce's own voice explaining what her sister said.

[Dan Rascone]

She said, well, you who called the police? And I said, I really don't want to be put through the humiliation. She said, in fact, the more she heard from me, the angrier she was getting. And she says, well, you call the police right now. Or she said, if you don't, I will. So I said, I will.

[Dave Cawley]

Joy soon met with Detective Bill Holthouse. She told him her story. Holthouse believed Joyce, and he arrested Doug Lovell that same morning on suspicion of rape.

[Dan Rascone]

He looked at me with an expression that got my attention, but it just was like it froze the moment. And he said, this will not go to trial.

[Dave Cawley]

Through a series of mistakes and mishaps, Lovell found himself out of jail. While awaiting trial that summer, he tried to hire two hitmen, but both fell through. So in August, 10 days before the scheduled start of the trial, Doug Lovell crept into Joyce Yost's apartment through a window, startled her awake, and slashed her with a knife. Lovell then took Joyce away in her own car and hid her body. Weeks later, at the start of October, Cherie Warne walked out of her work at the headquarters office for the Utah State Employees Credit Union in Salt Lake City. She told a co worker she was going to meet her estranged husband at a nearby car dealership. Afterward, Cherie planned to take her young son to her parents house in the city of Roy. She never made it.

[Dan Rascone]

Right now, police say they're investigating the disappearance but have very little to go on. What we're asking for is just to locate where she may be or any evidence to show that it or indicate that there is maybe some foul play involved so that we can do a different type of investigation Rather than missing persons.

[Dave Cawley]

Roy city police at first focused on Cherie's estranged husband, Charles Warren. Thinking he might have killed Shuri over their ongoing divorce. Charles told Roy police detective Jack Bell he had canceled his planned meeting with Cherie at the dealership on the evening of her disappearance and instead went jogging. A weak alibi Detective Bell was never able to corroborate.

[Dan Rascone]

I wish he hadn't looked so guilty to start with. But he did.

[Dave Cawley]

Charles Warren wasn't the only suspect, though. Police also came to wonder if a former Ogden city police reserve officer named Carrie Hartman might have had something to do with Sheree Warren's disappearance. Kerry and Cherie had been dating. Six weeks into the investigation, Cherie's car unexpectedly surfaced behind a casino in Las Vegas, Nevada.

[Dan Rascone]

That opened up a whole new can of worms. How did it get there? Which one of these two birds that I'm looking at have the opportunity to get it down there?

[Dave Cawley]

As Roy police were trying to answer that question. Doug Lovell revisited Joyce Yost's body somewhere in the mountains, Burying Joyce to prevent anyone from finding her. Then snow fell, blanketing those same mountains. In December, Doug Lovell stood trial for raping Joyce yost. She didn't show up to testify. The jury convicted Lovell anyway and sent him to prison, but not for murder. Without a body, South Ogden police were unable to link Joyce's disappearance to Lovell. Without a body, Roy police were unable to say what might have happened to Cherie Warren. These two separate cases were still both under investigation when In April of 1987, an anonymous man called Roy city and the Weber county sheriff's office to report finding a woman's body in the mountains near Causey reservoir.

[Dan Rascone]

That I across. Way up, you know, it's way out. You know, it's not in the communities or anything. It's way out in the hills.

[Dave Cawley]

Causey is way out in the hills about 20 miles east of Ogden and its suburbs of south Ogden and Roy. But the land around Causey is rough and remote. Investigators needed more specific information if they ever hoped to find the body. The anonymous caller wasn't willing to help.

[Dan Rascone]

Can I get your name? No, I'm not Interested in leading search for.

[Dave Cawley]

Weeks later, a witness told police he'd bumped into Sherry Warren's boyfriend, Kerry Hartman on the mountain behind Causey four days after Cherie disappeared. And detectives learned several of Hartman's close personal friends owned property in Kazi Estates, a cabin community near the reservoir.

[Dan Rascone]

We had to have a key. There was a gate down right at Causey reservoir.

[Dave Cawley]

One of those friends, Dave Moore, was Kerry's alibi for the night Cherie disappeared.

[Dan Rascone]

At the time, I didn't had no idea that he was using me as a alibi.

[Dave Cawley]

Another of those friends, Brent Morgan, told police Kerry had borrowed his key for the gate at Causey Estates shortly before Cherie vanished.

[Dan Rascone]

Back then, there wasn't a lot of people up there.

[Dave Cawley]

Police searched around Causey during the spring and summer of 1987, hoping to find the body the anonymous caller had mentioned. Those searches came up empty.

[Dan Rascone]

You take where he had my key. If he had access up there and could go up and down the road, you can find the right place where you can, 1, 2, 3, heave ho. And it's going to be in a spot where people aren't going to go.

[Dave Cawley]

Kerry Hartman, I should note, ended up in prison, but not because of anything to do with Cherie. Warren Ogden city police arrested him as a suspect in a series of home invasion sexual assaults around the same time as the anonymous call and the searches around Causey. A jury convicted Hartman in one of those cases. Years later, another clue emerged pointing toward Causey, this time in the Joyce yost case. In 1991, Doug Lovell's ex wife, Rhonda Butters, told police on the night Lovell killed Joyce Yost, he took her up by Causey.

[Dan Rascone]

He said he made her drive up the canyon and they went up by Causey and got her out of the car and walked up this hill and it wasn't very far up the road. And he said he buried her as best he could.

[Dave Cawley]

Rhonda Butters confession helped prosecutors secure a capital murder charge against Doug Lovell. Butters wore a wire into the Utah state prison and captured audio of her ex husband as he described burying Joyce Yost in the mountains, covering her with leaves.

[Dan Rascone]

The only thing I'm nervous about was that one time that caller called in. I remember seeing it on tv, the way they projected this was, we think we know where the body and Joyce remains on.

[Dave Cawley]

Lovell cut a plea deal, hoping to avoid the death penalty by promising to take police to Joyce Yost's grave. In the summer of 1993, he led police To a mountainside east of ogden. It held no signs of human remains. It was also nowhere near causey. Former south ogden detective Terry carpenter Told me he believes lovell lied about where he buried joyce yost.

[Dan Rascone]

She is someplace else, and honestly, to this day, I believe sheree Warren's with her. Otherwise, if we go up and dig and find joyce and find cherie, that negates all the agreements that we've had with him of not executing him, and he knows that. So he's not going to take us to joyce.

[Dave Cawley]

I've looked for evidence that might link Doug lovell to sherry warren, and I've not found any. Lovell himself denied having ever met cherie warren when this speculation first surfaced 30 years ago. But there are those who hold to this theory even today. In 2004, Weber county investigators Flew over the mountain behind causey In a state helicopter. They were operating on the assumption Kerry hartman had killed sheree warren and left her body somewhere near causey.

[Dan Rascone]

This would have been the road that I think he had access to. There's unlimited places where he could have dumped her along here. Hard to think like a bandit, you know? Would you have picked a characteristic turn or rock or tree or something as a landmark?

[Dave Cawley]

A year and a half later, A detective named shane minor Questioned Kerry hartman About Cherie warren's disappearance. Minor asked hartman directly if he had killed cherie and taken her body to kazi.

[Dan Rascone]

Did you kill cherie? No.

[Dave Cawley]

Hartman said he didn't have any idea what had happened to cherie.

[Dan Rascone]

You know, she was placed in an area of causey states. No, I don't have any idea.

[Dave Cawley]

A year after this, in 2006, a prison informant started talking to police about joyce yost. He said doug lovell had drawn him a map of the place where he'd left yost's body.

[Dan Rascone]

This is the lake. There's some gates up here on some property.

[Dave Cawley]

The informant claimed lovell had taken Joyce yost to causey reservoir.

[Dan Rascone]

See these circles here? He's telling me this is huntsville, and this is causing.

[Dave Cawley]

Your head's probably spinning by this point. It's so much to keep track of. I know not all of these leads are credible. Sorting fact from fiction Remains a major challenge in these two cases. But what I hope you're seeing Is a lot of circumstantial evidence Points toward causey reservoir as an important landmark in the disappearances of sherry warren and joyce yost. My job involves taking scattered fragments of a story, Spreading them out, and putting them in order. Sometimes the individual pieces don't look like much on their own. It's only when they're assembled that a picture emerges. If done well, the story that comes out of this process should draw as close to truth as I can possibly get it. It perfect truth is nearly impossible to find. Often holes remain unanswered. Questions like where is the body the anonymous caller reported finding near Causey? And why couldn't anyone find it? I've struggled to come up with a satisfactory answer. I've studied a century's worth of old maps, seeing the gradual development of trails and roads in the mountains around Causey. I've read newspaper archives about the generations of sheep herding families who owned those hills. I've hunted down aerial photographs of causey from the 1930s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s to the 1990s, even paying to have old film scanned at ultra high resolution. I've gone up into the air myself by plane and helicopter to study the thousands of acres of inaccessible private land behind Kazi.

[Dan Rascone]

This big flat top when it narrows down on the eastern edge, we just want to stay to the right of the ridge and then we'll cross over.

[Dave Cawley]

Through all this, I became very interested in a stretch of old jeep road in the 1980s. This trail linked Kausea states where Kerry Hartman was known to spend time to the spot on the mountaintop where a witness said he saw Hartman four days after Cherie Warren disappeared. Much of the jeep trail falls within the radius that anonymous caller referenced when he described finding a woman's body.

[Dan Rascone]

Is it in Weber County? It's over there by Cossey, Dad.

[Dave Cawley]

As my focus narrowed onto this old trail, I came across something unusual in the aerial images and video I had collected. The trail climbs a hill heading east out of Kazi Estates. At the top of that hill, I saw a pile of rocks about 6ft long and 3ft wide, roughly the size and shape one might expect for a clandestine grave. It wasn't clear from the images I'd collected if the rock pile existed before the 1980s. Those older pictures just weren't clear enough to tell. But I was able to determine the rock pile had sat undisturbed since at least the early 90s.

[Dan Rascone]

And as we come up on the.

[Dave Cawley]

Anomalous rock pile, I was able to visit the rock pile myself. You should see how it stands out.

[Dan Rascone]

From the surrounding environment.

[Dave Cawley]

I carried a camera with me to document the site and the old jeep trail nearby. As you look around, you can see there are rocks on this trail, but there are no other piles of rocks of similar shape. And size. So that is unique. This discovery presented a bit of a conundrum. The code of ethics that guides my work as a journalist says I need to act with independence. I don't work for the police, and I don't automatically share everything I know with them. But if this rock pile did mark a possible grave, it felt irresponsible to simply ignore it or to publish that speculation without taking steps to find out for sure. I shared images of the rock pile with a handful of trusted colleagues and sources who all agreed my eyes were not mistaken. It did look like it could be a grave. Again, unnatural. Unnatural rock pile. So I provided this information to Roye City police detective John Frawley, the lead detective on the Cherie Warren case. He thanked me for it. Some time passed. Then In August of 2023, I received word. Roy police had news to share. Good evening.

[Dan Rascone]

Breaking news out of Weber county, where.

[Dave Cawley]

Police plan to conduct a major search.

[Dan Rascone]

Related to a Utah cold dating back to the 1980s. It's a case we've covered extensively right here at KSL as part of the Cold podcast. We plan to be on the mountain with police as they explore this site tomorrow. Stay with KSL TV throughout the day for any breaking developments.

[Dave Cawley]

I had an exclusive invite to come along as police went to Causey to dig below the rock pile looking for possible human remains. Don't make yourself the subject of your own story. This mantra is foundational for journalists. It's drilled into our heads by professors and editors. But college didn't prepare me for a career in which journalism would take me on the hunt for human remains. Finding this odd rock pile while looking for a clandestine grave around Causey made me a subject in my own story. My managers at KSL recognized this, and they decided to assign a different reporter to cover the story of the dig. I would still be there to watch and provide comment and context, but reporter Dan Rascone would put the story on the air. News specialist Dan Rascone giving us exclusive.

[Dan Rascone]

Access to this site and the operation.

[Dave Cawley]

So, Dan, tell us where you are, what you've been seeing there.

[Dan Rascone]

This is a big operation. Yeah. This is a major operation undergoing right now.

[Dave Cawley]

This wasn't the only ethical consideration. KSL also took a few steps to safeguard our independence. We decided we would provide our own transportation to and from the site, which meant finding someone with four wheelers available on short notice. We told police if we came along, we'd have the freedom to share anything we saw or heard with you. They agreed. We met in the morning as low Clouds settled in the mountain valleys, catching sidelong rays of the rising summer sun. Our caravan of SUVs headed east from the small town of Huntsville, driving up Utah State Highway 39, following the south fork of the Ogden river to Causey. One by one, we drove across the dam to the gate for Causey Estates, drawing curious stares from fishermen and paddle boarders. Another mile or two on dirt and gravel brought us to the bottom of a steep hill. We parked, doused ourselves in sunscreen, and loaded equipment onto ATVs, cameras, coolers, pop up shades, and shovels. There weren't enough seats for everyone. Some of us donned backpacks and hiked the remaining mile to the rock pile, grunting up steep switchbacks. We reconvened up top on a saddle overlooking Causey Estates. The CSI team set up a laser scanner, a $40,000 piece of equipment designed to make a 3D model of the site. It sat on a tripod, rotating and beeping as we all waited.

[Dan Rascone]

We're trying to buy newer ones that don't take as long as.

[Dave Cawley]

But they launched a small drone to collect more imagery from above. If evidence of a murder came out of the ground, this would be crucial to show what the site looked like prior to its excavation. Another member of the team used a small handheld saw to cut back overgrown brush and branches around the rock pile. With the ground clear, the CSI team set down their tarp and raised an awning over the rocks. As they did so, my KSL colleague, Dan Rascone, went to work conducting interviews. He asked Roy Police Detective John Frawley what would happen next.

[Dan Rascone]

What are you going to. I mean, it seems like a very methodical process. It's not like you just bring out the shovels and start digging. No, we want to be very respectful. Also, there's a proper way to do this. And so the Weber County CSI team is very professional and they're going to handle this.

[Dave Cawley]

I think what John was getting at here was if the search about to get underway turned up human remains, we all needed to remember what that might mean. My mind turned to all the people I've met over the last several years who would be watching live coverage of this search on tv. We know there are families of victims, missing women, Cherie Warren, Joyce Yost, another person who could potentially be up in this area. And they have for the last four decades wondered where are their loved ones? And they're today watching and waiting to see what comes out of this. So that's really difficult.

[Dan Rascone]

So we could find a body today.

[Dave Cawley]

We won't know until Weber County CSI starts doing their work. But I don't think you get this team up here unless they think it's a reasonable possibility that they might recover human on the at the same time, none of us wanted to presume an outcome that hadn't yet happened.

[Dan Rascone]

And if you find anything, if we find anything, we will slow down at that point and figure out what we have and what needs to happen. Then we would obviously follow where the evidence leads us. We wouldn't want to make any predeterminations if we did find something. We want to keep an open mind and see where the evidence would lead us. At the that point, a low roar.

[Dave Cawley]

Began to rise from the south. It grew louder, drawing near, until a helicopter crested above the mountain and began to orbit overhead. It belonged to KSL Chopper 5, the very helicopter that had helped find this odd rock pile in the first place. Over the sound of the thrumming helicopter blades, the investigators began removing rocks from the pile and tossing them to the side. Stone by stone, they worked to expose the bare ground beneath. They sent spiders scurrying and even disturbed a hornet's nest.

[Dan Rascone]

To the pilot, we look like we found something. He doesn't know if it's wasp.

[Dave Cawley]

Yeah, everybody runs from the.

[Dan Rascone]

Something'S going on, something's going on. Game on, game on.

[Dave Cawley]

With the rocks removed, we could see the pile had covered a divot or depression. The ground under the pile sat 8 to 10 inches lower than the surrounding soil. This, I had learned, could be a clue because when a buried body decomposes, the ground above it may settle. I felt a sense of guarded optimism as the investigators began removing soil. They passed the loose earth off to be sifted. The idea here is dirt will fall through, while larger items like teeth, bone chips or cloth fragments will be caught by the screen. It's not as easy as it might sound. Because each bucket load of soil held hundreds of small pebbles too long large to fall through, the CSI team had to visually inspect them after this long.

[Dan Rascone]

Teeth look like these little rocks.

[Dave Cawley]

The closest analogy I can think of for this is it's like looking for a single tiny piece of Lego in a giant heap of bricks that are all a similar size and color. While this work was unfolding, the KSL team went live on the air to share it with the public in real time.

[Dan Rascone]

Yeah, we're high on a ridge right now just outside of Causeway Reservoir. This possibly a burial site for Cherie Warren. She disappeared back in October of 1985. We're going to go ahead and bring in Dave Cauley here, of course, with the Cold podcast. And Dave, tell us the significance of what is happening here. Right now we're seeing the detectives are.

[Dave Cawley]

Using shovels and picks to pull soil.

[Dan Rascone]

Off of this site to see if there is anything of evidence related to.

[Dave Cawley]

Cherie's case coming out of that.

[Dan Rascone]

They've taken just a few inches off.

[Dave Cawley]

The top and it will be a really slow process over the next several hours. I wasn't surprised when no skeletal remains surfaced beneath the first few inches of dirt. It stood to reason if anything or anyone was buried here, it wouldn't be right at the surface. You just decided with Dave when you think you guys are at your limit.

[Dan Rascone]

Not my call. So you guys make it. Let's go.

[Dave Cawley]

Let'S dig.

[Dan Rascone]

We got enough to dig right now. Yeah, I mean, you got stuff to dig.

[Dave Cawley]

Load after load of soil went through the screen. Only once or twice did the searchers pause. Like when an old.22 caliber shell casing, maybe a century old, caught up in the mesh.

[Dan Rascone]

22 number two, Jeff. Another 22. That deep? Really? Is it the same? I'm still gonna say it could be.

[Dave Cawley]

Falling off the higher shelf up here and rolling in. Hour after hour passed. Scattered clouds crept across the sky, casting shadows that sat on the landscape like spots on a Dalmatian. The hole sank progressively deeper.

[Dan Rascone]

I'd be pretty mind blown if they could dig this far. Yeah, no, I mean, I guess you're motivated. Though.

[Dave Cawley]

The excited, nervous chatter that had pervaded earlier in the day faded away. A specter of disappointment loomed.

[Dan Rascone]

You know, another 40 years, someone's gonna.

[Dave Cawley]

Find this rock pile.

[Dan Rascone]

Yeah.

[Dave Cawley]

Whole other team is going to come up here and do this all over again.

[Dan Rascone]

You'll be the old retired person. I know, right? Stories.

[Dave Cawley]

By mid afternoon, the hole reached a depth of between 2 and 3ft. The detectives who were taking turns with the shovels noticed a change.

[Dan Rascone]

So that color of dirt has been consistent all the way across, or at least 3, 4 inches into it, they.

[Dave Cawley]

Reached a layer of soil that had not been disturbed before.

[Dan Rascone]

Yeah. Yep. Let's even that out. To where? That level there.

[Dave Cawley]

Yeah.

[Dan Rascone]

Okay. I agree with that.

[Dave Cawley]

Proof. No one had previously dug a hole that deep at the site.

[Dan Rascone]

We got this one round.

[Dave Cawley]

It might have looked like one, but Detective Frawley said the rock pile didn't mark a grave.

[Dan Rascone]

Your reaction to that? I mean, I guess you were hoping to find something. Maybe. You're always hoping to find something. But I think like we've discussed as investigators, we keep going. You Know if there's a place to dig, we're going to dig. If there's a place to search, we're going to search. And we're just not going to stop. So we will follow every tip and every lead.

[Dave Cawley]

Look, I'm not going to lie. This outcome left me feeling deflated. In the time between my discovery of the rock pile and its excavation, I told myself not to build up any expectations. It was far more likely someone's dog was under those rocks than a murder victim. And even if human remains were buried there, they could have belonged to a sheep herder, a pioneer, a fur trapper, or an indigenous person. I knew this. Still, I couldn't ignore the possibility, no matter how low the probability. Maybe this would be a break. I'm human. So, yeah, I allowed a little hope. But there was nothing. No bones of any kind. Sweeping my eyes across that mountain as the police packed up their gear and raked loose dirt back into the hole, seeing the brush and trees spanning to the horizon, I felt a sting of futility. If Cherie Warren or Joyce Yost are up here, can we ever really hope to find them? Maybe not. This is the real nature of cold casework, its perpetual disappointment. And yet, I refuse to accept a fatalistic view. This search mattered for many reasons. It took one more location off the list of possibilities. It prompted new discussion about what happened to Joyce Yost and Sheree Warren, and it sent a message to their killers. We will not stop. Detective Frawley said it well. If there is a place to search, they are going to search. If there is a place to dig, they are going to dig.

[Dan Rascone]

And is that what you do, too, in the Cold Podcast? Yeah, absolutely.

[Dave Cawley]

So for the Cold Podcast podcast, you know, our job is to tell these stories, to tell Sheree Warren's story, to let the public know about what's happened in the past and what's happening right now. But that doesn't mean that this case ends when our podcast ends or that we stop paying attention. So I myself, ksl, the Cold Podcast, we're dedicated to continuing to follow Sheree's case. And if we come across any new information, we will be out on the next mountain doing the next search. In every setback, I see progress. In every hole excavated, we plant a seed of new opportunity. A fruitless search is not defeat. It's a step on the path toward truth. This will not be the last search. If you have information about the disappearance of Cherie Warren, now is the time to share it. You can reach me by emailing coldsl.com or contact the Roy City Police Department at 801-774-1063. I also want you to know if you've experienced abuse or sexual violence. You're not alone. There are trained experts ready to listen and help. In the United States, survivors of rape and sexual assault can connect to free resources through the Rape, Abuse and Incest national [e-mail] if you or someone you know is experiencing demon domestic abuse in any form, you can reach the National Domestic violence hotline at thehotline.org Kold is a production of KSL Podcasts and Wondery in association with Workhouse Media. Cold is researched, written and hosted by me, Dave Cawley audio production and sound design by Ben Kiebrick and Aaron Mason mixing and mastering by Ben Kiebrick. Michael Bond Miller composed our main theme with additional music this season by Alison Layton Brown for Amazon Music and Wondery Managing Producer Candace Manriquez Wren, producer Claire Chambers, senior Producer Lizzie Bassett and Executive Producer Morgan Jones. Special thanks to Cale Bittner and Allison Vermeulen with Workhouse Media executive producers Paul Anderson and Nick Panella and and for KSL Podcasts, executive producer Cheryl Worsley. For pictures and more, go to our website thecoldpodcast.com and follow us on social hecoldpodcast. Most of all, thank you for listening.