Cold Podcast: "The Search for Sheree" – Episode 10: "Last Man Standing"

Date: April 17, 2023
Host: Dave Cawley

Episode Overview

This episode of Cold pivots on the evolving investigation into Sheree Warren’s 1985 disappearance, now seen through the lens of fading memories, advancing age, lost evidence, and the narrowing possibilities for justice. With Sheree’s estranged husband Chuck Warren rendered incapacitated by dementia and the controversial release and refusal to cooperate from prime suspect Kerry Hartman, the case stands on the brink of being unsolvable. Host Dave Cawley methodically reviews the remaining evidence, scenarios, and ethical dilemmas—highlighting the persistent efforts of law enforcement, the frustration of unresolved answers, and the personal costs of domestic violence.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Kerry Hartman's Life After Prison & Community Response

• Kerry Hartman's Return: After serving 32 years for rape and sexual assault, Hartman returns to Ogden, Utah, staying in his old neighborhood, reaching out to past acquaintances (starting at 01:22).
• Community Reaction: Former friends Dave Moore and Brent Morgan express deep discomfort and sever ties. Even Hartman's mother, who died believing in his innocence, and his supportive father, have since passed.
  • Quote: “To be honest with you, I didn’t believe he did it until he was convicted.” — Dave Moore (02:03)
  • Quote: “His mother went to her grave believing that he was innocent.” — Brent Morgan (04:41)

2. Sheree’s Family and the Ongoing Investigation

• Family’s Longing: Sheree’s father, Ed Sorenson, expresses longing for answers, yet doubt he’ll ever know the truth (05:21).
• Active Investigation: Detective John Frawley persists with the cold case, motivated by meeting Sheree’s family.
  • Quote: “Kind of sobering feeling that this family, they didn’t get any answers.” — John Frawley (06:34)

3. Polygraph & Law Enforcement Strategy

• Polygraph Administered: Hartman, under parole, fails a polygraph test about Sheree’s disappearance—though the specifics are withheld from public access.
  • Quote: “And he did fail that polygraph test.” — John Frawley (08:56)
  • Quote: “It shows deception.” — John Frawley (09:29)
• Limitations: Despite failing the polygraph, both Hartman and Chuck Warren remain persons of interest due to insufficient direct evidence (09:51).

4. Chuck Warren’s Diminished Capacity & Life

• Dementia Diagnosis: Chuck Warren's cognitive decline renders him legally and functionally incapable of providing further information or standing trial (13:21).
  • Quote: “Chuck’s dementia meant whatever he might have known about Cherie’s disappearance was locked away where even he couldn’t get to it.” — Dave Cawley (13:36)

5. A Rare Offer: Immunity to Kerry Hartman

• Immunity Proposal: In 2021, investigator Steve Haney offers Hartman full transactional immunity for the location of Sheree’s remains—even if Hartman is the murderer. Hartman declines the offer (18:14).
  • Quote: “A literal get out of jail free card for Kerry Hartman…he wouldn’t face any consequences.” — Dave Cawley (18:42)

6. Host Attempts Direct Interview with Hartman

• Reporter’s Efforts: Dave Cawley leaves a letter and transcript at Hartman’s door; Hartman, wary and behind a nearly closed door, refers Cawley to his attorney and refuses comment (23:37).
  • Quote: “No, I don’t have anything to say.” — Kerry Hartman (23:39)

7. Debate: Has Hartman ‘Paid His Debt’?

• Law & Morality: Former officers and prosecutors disagree on whether Hartman, having served lengthy sentences, has "paid his debt"—especially given the suspicion of involvement in Sheree’s disappearance (25:24, 26:26).
  • “He has done more time for the rapes than he would for a manslaughter.” — Jack Bell (25:24)
  • “I don’t feel like he’s done his time.” — Jack Bell (26:26)
  • “If he had been convicted at the same time of homicide and the rape cases, he probably wouldn’t have spent any more time than he spent.” — Reed Richards (26:49)

8. Complexity of Prosecuting Decades-Old Cases

• Legal Hurdles: Even if Hartman were tried for Sheree’s murder now, much of the previous bad acts (including rapes) could be inadmissible; without a body or direct evidence, conviction would be highly unlikely (27:29).
  • Quote: “You could make an argument Kerry’s already received punishment for a crime he’s not been charged with. Would that mean Kerry no longer bears responsibility if he killed Cherie Warren?” — Dave Cawley (27:03)

9. Speculative Reconstruction: How Did Sheree Disappear?

• Possible Scenario: Cawley reconstructs a hypothesis where Sheree might have come to Hartman’s place on the night of her disappearance, their confrontation turns fatal, and Hartman, using his knowledge of local land and a three-wheeler ATV, hides her remains in the remote wilds behind Causey, with later efforts to further obscure their location (31:08 to 45:20).
  • Quote: “It’s possible a single blow could have knocked her unconscious or even killed her.” — Dave Cawley (33:51)
• Experiment: Cawley tests whether it’s feasible to move a body using an ATV in the terrain—finding that yes, with effort and a second person, it would be possible, and the landscape is so vast and wild, discovering remains is extremely unlikely (46:38–49:33).

10. Warning Against Confirmation Bias

• Investigator’s Regret: Retired detective Jack Bell recounts how his focus on a seemingly promising suspect in a bank robbery led him astray, reminding Cawley (and the audience) to avoid tunnel vision (55:00).
  • Quote: “Be careful about what you think you know. Don’t let your theories get too far in front of your facts.” — Dave Cawley, reflecting (56:27)

11. The Slowly Closing Window for Justice

• Passing of Time: With Chuck Warren deceased (2022) and Sheree’s father also gone, memories and opportunities for resolution dwindle; police appeal for any previously silent witnesses to come forward (63:08).
  • Quote: “So, yes, the clock is ticking. Absolutely.” — John Frawley (63:17)

12. The Blame of Victims and Societal Failing

• Host’s Reflection: Cawley denounces victim blaming, stressing that Sheree’s choices do not excuse the violence inflicted on her and illustrating the grim realities of how domestic abuse escalates (66:39).
  • Quote: “We have to stop doing that. Stop putting the blame on women when they are lied to, manipulated or abused by the people who are supposed to love them.” — Dave Cawley (66:39)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Polygraph Failure:
  • “And he did fail that polygraph test.” — John Frawley (08:56)
  • “It shows deception.” — John Frawley (09:29)
• Immunity Offer:
  • “A literal get out of jail free card for Kerry Hartman…he wouldn’t face any consequences.” — Dave Cawley (18:42)
• Caution on Detective Work:
  • “Be careful about what you think you know. Don’t let your theories get too far in front of your facts.” — Dave Cawley (56:27)
  • “None of us like to fail. And I feel like I failed.” — Jack Bell (57:46)
• The Tragedy of Lost Opportunity:
  • “Chuck's dementia meant whatever he might have known about Cherie's disappearance was locked away where even he couldn't get to it.” — Dave Cawley (13:36)
• Host Reflection on Victim Blaming:
  • “We have to stop doing that. Stop putting the blame on women when they are lied to, manipulated or abused by the people who are supposed to love them…” — Dave Cawley (66:39)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Hartman’s Release, Community Response: 01:22–04:47
• Detective Frawley’s Motivation/Ongoing Investigation: 05:21–07:02
• Polygraph and Law Enforcement Roadblocks: 07:09–09:29
• Dual Suspect Dilemma – Chuck & Kerry: 09:51–10:13
• Chuck Warren’s Decline & Legal Implications: 11:48–13:36
• Immunity Offer to Kerry Hartman: 18:14–19:00
• Reporter’s Attempt to Interview Hartman: 23:37–24:02
• Debate: Has Hartman Paid His Debt?: 25:24–26:49
• Prosecution Hurdles in Cold Cases: 26:49–28:27
• Host’s Scenario of Sheree’s Disappearance: 31:08–45:20
• ATV Experiment – Feasibility of Hiding Remains: 46:38–49:33
• Jack Bell Warns Against Tunnel Vision: 55:00–56:27
• Clock Ticking & Window for Justice Closing: 63:08–63:47
• Host’s Reflection on Victim Blaming: 66:39–67:30

Episode Tone & Language

The episode balances investigative detachment and journalistic rigor with moments of deep empathy and frustration. Cawley’s narration is methodical, respectful, and transparent—frequently spotlighting the uncertainties and limitations of both the evidence and the justice system, while never losing sight of the humanity of the victim and those affected by the case.

Summary for New Listeners

If you haven’t heard this episode, expect a layered exploration into both the facts and emotional truths surrounding Sheree Warren’s unsolved disappearance:

• The decline and deaths of key witnesses and suspects leave only one suspect—Kerry Hartman—who, despite significant circumstantial evidence (including a failed polygraph and failed alibis), cannot be brought to justice without new information or evidence.
• Investigators wrestle with the limitations of the justice system and their own fallibility.
• The host deconstructs standard narratives blaming victims and emphasizes the importance of recognizing systemic issues around domestic violence.
• The case serves as a broader reflection on how time, memory, and legal standards can blunt even the sharpest efforts to seek answers for the missing and murdered.

If you have information about the Sheree Warren case, please contact Roy City Police—the podcast team and law enforcement continue to seek closure and justice for Sheree and her family.