Podcast Summary: Cold (KSL Podcasts)

Episode: The Search For Sheree | Talking Cold: When Obscene Calls Escalate | Episode 12
Date: May 1, 2023
Host: Amy Donaldson & Sheryl Worsley
Special Guests:

• Anna Rossi Anderson (Division Director, Salt Lake County Special Victims Unit)
• Candice DeLong (Retired FBI Profiler, Host of Killer Psyche podcast)

Episode Overview

This episode of "Talking Cold" explores one of the most unsettling threads of Season 3 — the pattern and escalation of obscene and harassing phone calls, especially as they relate to suspects in the disappearance of Sheree Warren. Hosts Amy Donaldson and Sheryl Worsley discuss personal and cultural experiences of obscene calls; examine how technology has changed harassment; speak with prosecutor Anna Rossi Anderson about legal realities; and finally, deep-dive into the escalation of “nuisance” sex crimes with retired FBI profiler Candice DeLong.

1. Personal Stories: Obscene Calls and the 1980s (00:08–04:45)

• Amy opens with her discomfort about the prominence of obscene phone calls in Season 3.
• Sheryl recounts receiving “heavy breather” calls as a child:

  “They were just heavy breathing and I’m like ‘hello?’ And that was all.” (01:18, Sheryl)

• Amy’s family encountered explicit “lingerie survey” calls; her mother unwittingly answered inappropriate questions until realizing something was off.

  “She had an obscene phone call where the person actually asked her about her… you know… it was a ‘lingerie type survey.’” (01:22, Amy)

• The hosts reflect on how these incidents were often downplayed or brushed off, without considering the criminal aspect:

  “At no point did our family discussions… did anyone say like, this is a crime…” (02:00, Amy)

• Both note how kids in the era routinely answered phones or doors, increasing vulnerability.

2. Technology’s Transformation of Sexual Harassment (04:45–10:30)

Guest: Anna Rossi Anderson

• Obscene calls between strangers have nearly vanished; now harassment is more commonly from acquaintances or exes.

  “Generally when we have a case… it’s an ex, or someone that she’s had a falling out with… every once in a while, we’ll get people that send unsolicited nudes…” (04:50, Anderson)

• Modern equivalents appear as texts, DMs, or unsolicited images — often via dating apps or social media.
• Legal boundaries:
  • One-off unsolicited images usually aren’t prosecuted unless the person is told to stop and persists.

    “If you tell them not to do it, like if you tell them to stop, and they continue to do it… then [it could be charged].” (06:43, Anderson)

  • Harassment is exponentially easier (and more widespread) now due to technology and anonymity.

    “Their world of victims has exponentially grown… it is so much easier for people to perpetrate, on children especially…” (07:31, Anderson)

• Law enforcement leverages technology for evidence — e.g., extracting chat logs, deleted files, photos from devices.

  “The same things that make it so easy for perpetrators to offend make it just as easy for us to prove it.” (09:27, Anderson)

• These digital traces allow for more robust prosecutions compared to the past, which relied on victim testimony alone.

3. Legal and Psychological Approaches to Escalating Behavior (10:30–22:09)

Discussion with Anna Rossi Anderson

• Prosecutors take stalking, internet harassment, and escalation seriously:

  “If someone’s behavior seems to be escalating to a stalking level offense… it requires some subjectivity, but we have a duty to look at those things closely.” (10:43, Anderson)

• Repeat sex crimes (public indecency, lewdness, flashing) are common — and the law allows for enhanced sentencing after repeated offenses.

  “After a certain number of lewdness convictions, you can be charged with an enhanced level of offense. The statutes themselves provide for ways to… view it more seriously as it continues to occur.” (12:24, Anderson)

• The DSM’s evolving view of paraphilia:
  • In 1980 (DSM-III), paraphilia (sexual deviance) became a defined mental disorder; by 2013 (DSM-V), focus shifted from deviant thoughts to “paraphilic disorders” — indicating harmful behavior that impairs daily life or involves victims.

    “The disorder part is now what has changed it from just, you know, having sexually deviant thoughts to actually acting on those… to the point that they... interfere with your day-to-day life.” (13:50, Anderson)

  • Consent is the key line for criminality.

    “If there’s ever an unconsenting party, or a non-consenting party, then there’s a criminal offense.” (16:18, Anderson)

• Sex offender treatment is multifaceted: group or individual therapy, sometimes medication; customized interventions for offenders with cognitive limitations.
• Early intervention is crucial — catching offending behavior early, setting boundaries, and providing help deters escalation.

  “Early intervention is key for almost every kind of criminal offense.” (20:26, Anderson)

• The public often overestimates the prevalence of these crimes; prosecutors experience the worst daily, but most people are good.

  “...it was like, 3%. You know, it’s just not as many people as we think it is.” (23:07, Anderson)

4. Expert Exploration: Escalation Myths & Serial Predators (26:10–34:23)

Guest: Candice DeLong (Retired FBI Profiler)

• DeLong’s background: psychiatric nursing in maximum security; FBI special agent for 20 years; criminal profiling and major true-crime cases (Tylenol murders, Unabomber).
• Escalation research:
  • Early “nuisance” sex crimes (obscene calls, peeping, flashing) can correlate with later, more serious crimes.

    “25% of serial killers… and it might be a higher percentage… for serial rapists… did commit lesser, what are called nuisance crimes early in their criminal careers.” (27:02, DeLong)

  • Police used to think these behaviors didn’t escalate — research proved otherwise.

    “It was a commonly held myth by police… They just want to shock her. Well, it turns out that's not always true.” (27:44, DeLong)

• The evolution of sexual assault investigations:
  • Pioneered in Manhattan by Linda Fairstein, who established proper victim-interview and evidence-collection protocols.

    “Interesting thing about false allegations… less than 2%... Most women are embarrassed to come forward and admit such a horrible thing happened…” (29:03, DeLong)

• Notable Cases:
  • Tylenol Murders (1982), Unabomber (1996), and a particularly rewarding child rescue operation:

    “I looked through the arms and I saw this tiny little white arm. And I reached in and I grabbed it and I pulled him out. His name is Tony… A few days later, I took him home to reunite with his parents.” (34:04, DeLong)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On how technology changes everything:

  “The same things that make it so easy for perpetrators to offend make it just as easy for us to prove it.”
  – Anna Rossi Anderson, 09:27

• On the myth of “nuisance crimes” as harmless:

  “One of the things [the FBI] found out was 25% of serial killers… did commit lesser, what are called nuisance crimes early in their criminal careers.”
  – Candice DeLong, 27:31

• On prevalence of sexual violence:

  “Most women actually are embarrassed to come forward and admit such a horrible thing happened to them. They don’t want to go over the details. Oh, and by the way, male victims rarely come forward for the same reason.”
  – Candice DeLong, 29:03

• Host perspective on fear:

  “Covering crime for me made me afraid in a way that I had not been previously. And it’s the reason I quit covering crime, because I thought, I’m skewing my worldview…”
  – Amy Donaldson, 22:22

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:08–04:45 — Hosts recount personal & regional experiences of obscene calls
• 04:45–10:30 — Interview: Prosecutor Anna Rossi Anderson on technology, harassment, and law
• 10:30–22:09 — Deeper dive: escalation, mental health, legal response, treatment, and prevention
• 26:10–34:23 — Interview: Candice DeLong on FBI research, escalation, and true-crime casework

Tone & Style

• The discussion is honest, direct, sometimes dark, but often compassionate and practical.
• Guests and hosts use clear, accessible language, often contextualizing legal or psychological jargon.

Conclusion

This episode of "Talking Cold" thoughtfully unpacks how seemingly minor gendered harassment — once brushed off as “nuisance” — can be a warning sign for escalation. The hosts and guests outline technological, legal, and psychological realities, dispelling myths and underscoring the need for early intervention, public education, and a balance between awareness and fear. The experiences and expertise of both Anna Rossi Anderson and Candice DeLong provide a robust backdrop for considering how culture should perceive and respond to these “warning signs” before violence escalates.