Uinta Triangle | Episode 5

Summary

---

Cold Podcast — Uinta Triangle | Episode 5

Date: June 10, 2025
Host: Dave Cawley
Theme: Business Casual of the Backcountry — Navigating Hope and Uncertainty in the Search for Eric Robinson

---

Episode Overview

In episode 5 of Uinta Triangle, Dave Cawley delves into the evolving search for Eric Robinson, an experienced Australian hiker missing in Utah’s Uinta Mountains since summer 2011. The episode juxtaposes the painstaking efforts of Eric's family, friends, and volunteers with the official search operation, and reveals the pivotal “needle in a haystack” nature of wilderness rescues. Through new eyewitness accounts, tense family updates, and Cawley’s own retracing of Eric’s steps, listeners are immersed in the physical and emotional landscapes faced by all involved.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Frustration and Determination: Family Arrives in Utah

• [05:13] Marilyn Kulstra (wife), daughter Rachel, and friend Devon arrive in Utah from Australia, desperate for updates on Eric’s search.
  • Marilyn is frustrated at the lack of contact with authorities.
    • Quote: “Sitting at home waiting for, you know, a phone call is not what you came here to do.” — Dave Cawley [05:30]
  • They visit the last known trailhead, distribute flyers, and confront the enormity of the wilderness.
    • Quote: “I don’t think we had any concept of actually the size of what we were talking about.” — Rachel [07:32]

2. The Challenge of Searching Vast Wilderness

• [08:45] The family recognizes the search area’s immensity and futility, with hopes of “getting lucky.”
• Quote: “It was literally a needle in a haystack.” — Jeremy (Rachel’s husband, paraphrased through Rachel) [10:26]
• Comparison to the simultaneous search for a missing Boy Scout demonstrates how public awareness, demographics, and connections influence volunteer turnout and urgency.
  • Quote: “Eric’s from Australia… when you have a search and rescue operation going… not a lot of people are showing up because they don’t know the guy.” — Julia Geisler [19:13]

3. Updates from the Search Efforts

• [11:41] A missing 12-year-old Boy Scout, Jared Ropalado, consumes regional search and air support resources, diverting attention from Eric’s search. Jared is found within 24 hours, highlighting the contrast in resource mobilization and hope.
  • Quote: “He fell in a river this morning, so he was wet, but he’s still dirty.” — Dawna Ropalado [22:05]
• Julia and Marilyn rally volunteers for Eric, but still face significant challenges, including unclear jurisdiction and patchy communication.
  • Quote: “Communication between the two groups of volunteers was pretty lacking.” — Julia Geisler [23:51]

4. The Critical Sighting: Shifting the Timeline

• [26:53-40:26] Scoutmaster Russ Alston realizes his Boy Scout troop encountered Eric Robinson two days after the previously reported last sighting.
  • Russ’s detailed account updates the search timeline significantly.
    • Quote: “We chat with this gentleman for 20 to 30 minutes maybe… He started telling us of experiences he’d had, you know, on other treks… He had mentioned he and his wife had trekked a lot.” — Russ Alston [32:36]
  • Russ describes Eric as prepared, competent, but physically battered from recent struggles with snow and navigation.
  • Eric describes having trouble crossing Anderson Pass due to snow, resulting in a dangerous off-trail detour.
    • Quote: “His description was letting himself down over more than just boulders, but kind of cliff faces. He had scraped up knuckles…” — Russ [36:09]
  • Russ gives Eric advice on returning to the Highline Trail via a “horseshoe” detour through Garfield Basin.

5. Clues, Theories, and Emotional Fallout

• [43:02] Russ’s sighting renews hope and shifts the search to a more recent and plausible area.
  • Quote: “So there was renewed hope of some conclusion.” — Marilyn [43:02]
• Marilyn and Rachel piece together Eric’s average pace, possible survival strategies, and wrestle with the psychological strain of uncertainty.
  • Ongoing torment about why Eric didn’t use his emergency beacon (EPIRB).
    • Quote: “That was the bargaining piece of his… Why didn’t it go off?” — Marilyn [45:29]
• The family expresses the emotional rollercoaster of renewed hope and subsequent disappointment.
  • Quote: “He was contacted today by a Boy Scout leader who spoke for some time to Eric on August 2nd… we feel this is still some positive progress.” — Rachel [46:12]

6. The Anderson Pass Obstacle: Field Investigation

• [50:54-55:29] Dave retraces Eric’s route, directly confronting the same snowfield and treacherous descent.
  • His field reporting gives listeners a visceral sense of Eric's likely experience and mindset, reinforcing Eric’s resilience and decision to solve problems himself.
    • Quote: “Part of what really impresses upon me is just how tough and determined Eric was.” — Field Reporter [54:18]

7. The “Bail Out” Theory and Decision Points

• [61:03-65:33] Dave analyzes whether Eric’s detour was a navigational error or an intentional “bail out” from difficulty.
  • He interviews Marilyn and Julia about Eric’s likely psychology—would he have abandoned the trail if rattled?
    • Quote: “He was not a quitter… he was a stayer for the journey, so I’m not convinced he would pull the pin on it.” — Marilyn [62:42]
• Dave concludes that Eric may have reconsidered and decided to continue after meeting Russ and the Scouts.

8. Volunteers, Theories, and Desperation

• [67:16-69:08] As new volunteers arrive, searchers consider all possibilities (accident, foul play, supernatural trackers) amidst mounting uncertainty.
  • Quote: “There was a tracker who appeared...and, you know, he was going out there with the vibes to try and locate Eric.” — Marilyn [67:40]

9. Dave’s Experiential Reporting: The Path Forward

• [71:13-75:36] By physically retracing Eric’s probable route, Dave draws stark parallels between his own struggles and those Eric may have faced—weather, fatigue, tough terrain, and isolation.
  • Quote: “No question. I imagine Eric would have felt much the same.” — Dave Cawley [73:22]
• The episode ends with Dave reflecting on chance, the weight of meetings on the trail, and the fragility of hope.

---

Timestamps & Segment Guide

• 05:13 — Family’s arrival and frustration with the search
• 07:32 — Rachel describes daunting search area
• 10:26 — “Needle in a haystack” analogy
• 11:41 — Parallel search for missing Boy Scout; difference in mobilization
• 19:13 — Julia’s insights on volunteer mobilization
• 26:53-40:26 — Russ Alston's recounting of his encounter with Eric, critical update to the search’s timeline and geography
• 43:02 — Renewed focus, recalculating Eric’s likely movements
• 45:29 — The question of the unused EPIRB/emergency beacon
• 54:18 — Dave’s field report: “tough and determined Eric”
• 61:03-65:33 — “Bail out” theory and psychological analysis of Eric’s decisions
• 67:16 — Volunteers' arrival and desperation-fueled theories, including supernatural attempts
• 71:13-75:36 — Dave’s retracing, personal effort, and emotional resonance
• End — Reflections on chance, hope, and community in search and rescue

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “I don’t think we had any concept of actually the size of what we were talking about.” — Rachel [07:32]
• “It was literally a needle in a haystack.” — Jeremy (paraphrased) [10:26]
• “Eric’s from Australia… not a lot of people are showing up because they don’t know the guy.” — Julia Geisler [19:13]
• “His description was letting himself down over more than just boulders, but kind of cliff faces. He had scraped up knuckles…” — Russ Alston [36:09]
• “So there was renewed hope of some conclusion.” — Marilyn [43:02]
• “That was the bargaining piece of his… Why didn’t it go off?” — Marilyn on EPIRB [45:29]
• “Part of what really impresses upon me is just how tough and determined Eric was.” — Field Reporter [54:18]
• “He was not a quitter… he was a stayer for the journey, so I’m not convinced he would pull the pin on it.” — Marilyn [62:42]
• “There was a tracker who appeared... he was going out there with the vibes to try and locate Eric.” — Marilyn [67:40]
• “No question. I imagine Eric would have felt much the same.” — Dave Cawley [73:22]

---

Conclusion & Tone

Uinta Triangle, Episode 5 offers a rare inside look at the intersection of hope, frustration, and the complex dynamics of wilderness search-and-rescue. Emotional, immersive, and deeply human, the episode balances facts, family testimony, and the realities of backcountry danger, leaving the listener both moved and acutely aware of the fine line between adventure and tragedy.

---

Transcript

[Narrator/Advertiser]

If the world were like a Sleep Number mattress, everything would adapt for your comfort. Because as your life changes and your body changes, Sleep Number mattresses adapt and shift to give you personalized comfort night after night. And now everything's on sale during our Memorial Day event. Save up to $1200 on mattresses plus free delivery when you add a base ends Monday. To experience a whole new world of comfort, visit a Sleep Number store or go to sleepnumber.com sleep number to a good life Sleep. When you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Grainger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Grainger offers millions of products in fast, dependable delivery so you can keep your facility stocked, safe, and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

My name is Mackenzie and I started a GoFundMe for the adoptive mother of a nonverbal autistic child. The mother had lost her job because

[Narrator/Advertiser]

she wasn't able to find adequate care for this autistic child, so she really

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

needed some help with living expenses, paying some back bills. So I launched a GoFundMe to help support them during this crisis, and we raised about $10,000 within just a couple of months. I think that the surprising thing was

[Narrator/Advertiser]

by telling a clear story and just

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

like really being very clear about what we needed, we had some really generous donations from people who were really moved by the situation that this family was struggling with.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

GoFundMe is the world's number one fundraising platform, trusted by over 200 million people. Start. Start your GoFundMe today at gofundme.com that's gofundme.com, gofundme.com this podcast is supported by GoFundMe. So you're running out of closet space. The good news? You don't need to stop shopping. You just need to start selling with the RealReal. The RealReal is the world's largest and most trusted resource for authenticated luxury resale. Whether it's that mini bag that can't even fit your phone or those boots you never fully broke in, the RealReal handles everything from photography and copywriting to shipping and pricing. So you can just sit back, get paid, and make room for things that actually feel like you. And with 10,000 plus new arrivals every single day from top designers like Prada, Celine, Louis, Vuitton and Louisville for up to 90% off retail. You're bound to find something perfectly on brand to fill that extra closet space with. Plus, this may only you can get an extra $200 to shop when you sell for the first time. Make room for what feels like you. Go to therealreal.com to start selling and get your extra $200 to keep [e-mail] that's therealreal.com terms apply.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. May is Mental Health Awareness Month and Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, is sharing the message that connection is crucial because good relationships are an essential and sometimes overlooked component of mental well being. If your relationships could use some strengthening, a licensed therapist from Talkspace can help. Therapy can help you communicate better with loved ones, repair conflicts, and understand how to address loneliness and build community. It's easy to sign up. Just go to talkspace.com and you'll be paired with a therapist within two days. You'll meet with your therapist online on your schedule. Plus, Talkspace is in network with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. Make personal connections a priority and start today. If you're not covered by Insurance. Get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80. That's S-P A C E 80 to match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com and Enter promo code SPACE80. I'm Dave Cawley, host of the Cold podcast. Uinta Triangle is a standalone story written and produced by the same team that makes Cold. Now, if you're enjoying Uinta Triangle here in the COLD feed, do me a huge follow you into Triangle on its own feed. Doing this is the best way to support the Kold team while we're working on season four. Thanks. The best thing we've learned from nearly 500 years of contact with the American wilderness is restraint. The willingness to hold our hand, to visit such places for our soul's good, but leave no tracks. Wallace Stegner Crossing into Eden Marilyn Kulstra awoke in an unfamiliar bed in an unfamiliar house, in an unfamiliar city, in an unfamiliar country. It was the morning of Friday, August 12, 2011, day five of the search for her missing husband. She was in Park City, Utah, and she had come all the way from Australia with one goal to find Eric Robinson. But Marilyn hadn't yet managed to even make contact with the people in charge of the search.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

You know, a little frustrating, I think we started calling on Friday asking to speak. Oh, they're out on the field searching. Call back. I said, could you get them to call me?

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

Sitting at home waiting for, you know, a phone call is not what you

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

came here to do.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

It is not. And I'm a person of action first.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Marilyn, her daughter Rachel, and her husband's hiking buddy, Devon, were staying together at a home that belonged to a friend of a friend. They spent the morning waiting there for a return phone call from the Duchenne County Sheriff. That call never came.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

Clearly, they had no news to share. Otherwise, you know, we would have heard

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

that Marilyn's primary contact in Utah, Julia Geisler, was gone. Out searching for Eric in the vicinity of Dead Horse Pass. Julia wasn't expected back until later that evening. So in the meantime, Marilyn, Rachel, and Devin decided to drive up the Mirror Lake highway to the Highline trailhead, the place where Eric was supposed to have finished his hike.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

We saw where Julia had placed the

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

makeshift sign five days earlier. The cardboard scrap was still stuck to the trailhead kiosk with neon pink duct tape.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

We walked around that space. We walked down the track a little bit.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Marilyn went out onto a rock ledge. It stood above a broad expanse of pine forest and provided a panoramic view. A deep gash. The gorge of the Duchesne river cut diagonally across the landscape. Many small ponds and lakes peeked out through the trees, shimmering in the afternoon sun. Marilyn didn't know their names, but one of the largest, Mirror Lake, sat directly in front of her. Beyond its shores rose the twin summits of Bald Mountain and Reed's Peak, their steep slopes still draped in aprons of snow.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

It's a very beautiful country, you know, And I appreciated why Eric wanted to be in that space. Yeah, it was lovely.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Lovely, expansive and awful. Rachel came up behind. She looked out over that same scene and realized her entire field of view encompassed just a tiny portion of the Uintah Range, a small sliver of the search area.

[Rachel (Marilyn's daughter)]

I don't think we had any concept of actually the size of what we were talking about.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

They stepped back from the ledge, crossed the highway, and found a little pond called Butterfly Lake. There's a small parking area and campground there. Rachel went around placing flyers with Eric's name and photo under car windshield wipers,

[Rachel (Marilyn's daughter)]

just trying to feel like we were being useful. Fingers crossed, but it felt pretty futile.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

They walked around the lake, watching happy families fishing from the shoreline. They were still within sight of the highway, but Rachel couldn't keep her bearings. The mountain landmarks I described earlier were all foreign to her, and they would have been alien to Eric as well. So how would he find his way if he were lost?

[Rachel (Marilyn's daughter)]

I remember thinking, eric, what were you thinking, mate? You know, like, you're not young, you know, I've hiked with him before and he's carrying this pack full of every single thing and he can hardly stand up, I was thinking. And so once I could visualize it, I then was starting to probably prepare myself for any number of realities.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

My name is Dave Cawley. You are listening to Uinta Triangle, an audio documentary from KSL Podcasts. This is episode five, Business Casual of the Backcountry. Marilyn and Rachel were out of cell phone range while up the Mirror Lake Highway. But their phones started buzzing with alerts as they came back into service. Late that afternoon, messages and voicemails poured in from friends and family back in Australia. Where are you? Any word about Eric? Marilyn wasn't sure who to respond to

[Marilyn Kulstra]

first, but there was a time difference as well. You know, when we were able to call, it'd be middle of the night back here and vice versa.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

A reporter with the news service Reuters had called looking for a quote. The Australian consulate in Los Angeles wanted an update. Marilyn hoped to see a missed call from the Duchenne sheriff.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

But no, it was a little frustrating, but, you know, the whole scenario of him being missing was frustrating because how dare he, you know, how dare you do this?

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Rachel called her husband, Jeremy. She tried to describe the experience she had just had, standing near the trailhead and looking out over the vast expanse, knowing it was just a small portion of the landscape Eric intended to cross. When I spoke to Jeremy and Rachel, Jeremy told me he had struggled to comprehend the scope of it. No one really knew. He could have been here, there in the middle, or towards, you know, the finish. It's just. No one really knew, did they?

[Rachel (Marilyn's daughter)]

No. It was literally a needle in a haystack, like. And that's what. When you saw it, you went.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Jeremy went online and found video clips from Marilyn's TV interview. And he read through comments about the unfolding story on social media. One guy came on early. He said, look, I've been going in the interest for 50 years and said, you know, I think the unfortunate reality is, is that Eric won't be found until someone basically trips over him. A confronting thought. To that point, Jeremy hadn't entertained the idea Eric might not be alive. I think initially we were all like, well, you know, depending on the weather, he's just running late. It was really. Then after Five days that we went, you know, by, by now we probably should have heard something. And that was the whole idea behind Marilyn's interview.

[Rachel (Marilyn's daughter)]

Being on TV was probably the best way of getting information.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

But Marilyn wasn't the only person in the news lamenting a loved one missing in the Uinta Mountains. A crisis was at that very moment unfolding on the opposite side of the high Uintas. A 12 year old boy Scout had disappeared from camp at a place called Spirit Lake.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

I was hoping that he would be found before dark. And yeah, the pit is back in my stomach now.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

About 30 volunteers, deputies and search and rescue in Daggett county are trying to find 12 year old Jared Rapalado. Back at the Rapalado home in Hooper, Jared's mom Dawn tries to handle her emotions and the constant phone calls.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

What can I do? So I've just been asking for prayers.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

The Daggett county sheriff called for air support, but the Utah Department of Public Safety helicopter was already busy in Duchene county ferrying searchers in and out of the wilderness as they looked for Eric Robinson. The flight crew had to make a difficult decision about which mission to prioritize. Jared Ropalado's young age and the immediacy of his situation demanded attention. So the chopper diverted away from the search for Eric. Hey, Luke, you showing that Daggett Lake just over the ridge? I'm heading to the west over by Daggett.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

I'm gonna start gridding from there.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

The chopper spent the rest of that day looking for the lost scout. But with the daylight gone, dawn says she's counting on her son to take care of himself and stay put so he'll be easier to find. I don't know if he's freaking out and wondering or if he did stop

[Marilyn Kulstra]

to pray and to sit and to be still.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

That's what I've been praying that he would do.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

A call for volunteers went out over social media. Hundreds of people made plans to show up at Spirit Lake at first light the next morning. A far different response than the search for Eric, where only a small number of volunteers had so far turned out to help. Part of the problem was no one knew where to send volunteers who were willing to look for Eric. He was five days overdue, but it had been much longer than that since the last sighting of him. Eric had last been seen on the shore of Fox lake on day three of his hike. It was now Friday, August 12th, nearly two full weeks later. Marilyn couldn't understand how Eric would have gone so long without having contact with anyone else.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

My experience hiking with him is that you talk and you share with those that you meet.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

She was about to discover Eric did meet others, and their story would complicate the task of finding him.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

If the world were like a Sleep Number mattress, everything would adapt for your comfort. Because as your life changes and your body change, Sleep Number mattresses adapt and shift to give you personalized comfort night after night. And now everything's on sale during our Memorial Day event. Save up to $1,200 on mattresses for a limited time to experience a whole new world of comfort. Visit a Sleep Number store or go to sleepnumber.com sleep number to a good

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

life Sleep if you work in University Maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place, from H VAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock so your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRAINGER visit grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

The sun is calling. Are you ready? From beach days to soccer plays. Blue Lizard Australian Sunscreen helps protect your family's skin so you can focus on the fun, not the sun. With no fragrances, parabens or phthalates, our mineral sunscreen is designed for your sensitive skin and trusted by dermatologists, pediatricians and parents alike. Be fearless in the sun with Blue Lizard Australian Sunscreen. Shop now on Amazon.com if you work

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

in University maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place, from H. Vac and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock so your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRAINGER visit grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

From GEICO Subconscious News I'm Tammy. Racing thoughts broadcasting from your brain. You think you live in a pretty safe place, but you just heard about a break in four miles away, which isn't close, but it isn't far either. You know Art Palpitations is on the scene.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

I sure am, Tammy. And I don't even know why I drove out here because as you know, you got customized renters insurance through geico, so your stuff is is covered.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Oh well, that's great. Any sign of crime There, Art.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Just some light littering, Tammy. But like they say, a little litter can lead to a lot.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Wise words. It feels good to worry less. It feels good to geico.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Julia Geisler and Blake Summers returned from a fruitless search around Dead Horse Pass. Late on that Friday evening, Julia and Marilyn shared a bittersweet reunion. They hadn't seen each other since first meeting five years earlier in San Francisco after Eric's hike on the John Muir Trail. Julia hadn't found any sign of Eric near Deadhorse or anywhere else. But she told Marilyn the fact Deadhorse Pass was still partially snowbound raised the possibility Eric might have tried to detour around it.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

She had a couple of possibilities and tracks that he might have taken. So we started planning the the dining room table turned into our command base. Maps, plans, people who can come. Where are we going? What are we going to do?

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Marilyn was at a disadvantage. She had no experience in the uintas, and that made it difficult to look at the map and picture how it all fit together. Julia acted as her guide, tracing the route for one possible detour, the Granddaddy Bypass.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

Julia was an invaluable asset in local knowledge and knowledge of the mountains because it was like her backyard, her playground.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

I've described the Granddaddy Bypass once before. It would have extended Eric's walk by at least a few days and required some careful navigation. It was plausible Eric could be alive but lost or delayed somewhere along that bypass. Great. Marilyn and Rachel said, let's go there. But Julia suggested they work on finding more volunteers. She had put out a plea for help once already, but didn't get much response.

[Julia Geisler]

It was hard to get people to come out, especially during the week, because this is happening during a work week and it's last minute.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Julia tried again now that it was the weekend. She called friends who were ski patrollers, mountain bikers, trail runners, anyone who might be fit and fast enough to help. Several agreed to pack their bags and spend the next two days hiking in search of Eric.

[Julia Geisler]

It was definitely personal connections that got those folks out, not other resources.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Julia's friends were far too few in number to cover the hundreds of miles of trails that needed to be checked. She didn't yet realize it, but she was competing for volunteers with the family of that missing Boy Scout at Spirit Lake. And she was losing.

[Julia Geisler]

Eric's from Australia. He doesn't have a lot of friends except for me and Blake in town. And so when you have a search and rescue operation going and you're calling for volunteers, not a Lot of people are showing up because they don't know the guy. You know, if you know somebody that's out there, you know, a family that has a kid missing, you get hundreds of people show up day after day. Like, we really didn't have that. So we were definitely pulling on the heartstrings of, you know, patrollers and runners and. And like within our community or our networks of friends.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Julia gave her friends instructions where to go. They promised to report back with any findings. She, in effect, organized a shadow search and rescue independent of, but parallel to the official effort by the Duchesne sheriff. Marilyn, meanwhile, found herself overwhelmed by the constant calls and messages coming in from Australia. Rachel stepped in, taking over as the single point of contact. She sent an email home that Friday night. Here's what it said.

[Rachel (Marilyn's daughter)]

Mum did a sterling job last night, appearing on the Salt Lake TV station. It's in the papers and on the tv. Reuters called this afternoon from Washington, so the message is reaching far and wide.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Rachel shared her firsthand impression of the Uintas now that she had seen the place for herself.

[Rachel (Marilyn's daughter)]

It is wild, wild country and forest, better referred to as wilderness. The search has covered a fair amount of the trail Eric planned on covering. It has been done by air, by the helicopter. Some of the paths have been covered by snow and detours are in place.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Eric's trail friend Devin, along with Julia's partner Blake and her sister, intended to spend the weekend searching the Granddaddy bypass. Other Ferrari friends would fan out elsewhere across the range.

[Rachel (Marilyn's daughter)]

As of tomorrow, all of Eric's friends will be on the trail and Mum and I will be in charge of the house, the four mobile phones and directing the volunteers. There has been no more news. Essentially, no one has seen eric since

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

the 30th, the last known sighting two weeks earlier. When a hiker had photographed Eric at Fox Lake, Rachel said no one had seen him since.

[Rachel (Marilyn's daughter)]

Like us, people here are baffled as to what this means. We're frustrated by the fact there is so much ground to cover, yet it is hard to scale the search more effectively until they have another sighting.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

The missing boy scout, Jared Ropalado, turned up early on Saturday, less than 24 hours after he vanished into the woods. Just before 9am, word came he was found.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

I'm happier than I think I've ever

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

been because I was probably as scared as I'd ever been.

[Russ Alston]

Dawn Rapalado is Jared's mother.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

He's fine.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

He fell in a river this morning, so he was wet, but he's still dirty.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

When he Realized he didn't know where he was. He stopped and built a shelter, then buried himself in dirt to keep warm overnight. He says he learned all that from the boy scouts.

[Rachel (Marilyn's daughter)]

When we went to scout camp last year, they taught us how to build

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

a lean tomb so we can stay warm. The quick recovery meant Duchesne county got its air support back by about midday on Saturday, August 13, day six of the search for Eric. Chief deputy Dave Boren tasked the helicopter with carrying a search party to Fox lake. They would expand outward from the spot

[Julia Geisler]

Eric was last seen, around water sources where he might have camped, not just the trail itself.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

This was a subtle but significant shift in strategy. It meant the sheriff considered the entire Highline trail cleared. Eric must be somewhere off the trail, which meant the boundaries of the search were ballooning outward. Julia continued pleading for help from the public.

[Julia Geisler]

I was doing more work with the sheriff, trying to, you know, get volunteers and help coordinate on what has been searched and where.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

There's a concept in the military called fog of war. It describes what happens when units in the field don't know what's going on around them. Julia and her makeshift search parties ran into this same problem.

[Julia Geisler]

You're out of cell phone range when you're out there searching. So, like, even how to communicate amongst the groups, radios and that kind of thing. Like, it's pretty limited in what you can do out there.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

This problem was complicated by the fact the search had effectively forked. The Duchenne searchers weren't always aware of what was happening with Julia's friends, and vice versa.

[Julia Geisler]

It was great to have both, but the communication between the two groups of volunteers was pretty lacking. And I think Blake tells a story of being out there and, like, encountering some folks on horses that had been searching the same drainage. And it's like, oh, we didn't even know we would all be in there together.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

At one point, Julia realized Duchesne didn't have jurisdiction anywhere on the north side of the Uintah crest. That half of the range was Summit county's responsibility.

[Julia Geisler]

I was like, wait, which county? Where's the map? And, like, starting to understand the delineation between the two and the resources that each had or didn't have.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

I'll remind you, Julia's initial call reporting Eric missing went to Summit County, But Summitt handed the case off to Duchesne. Because the High line trail is mostly within Duchesne. But many of the trails that branch off of the High line, where Julia's friends were at that moment searching, were in Summit yet no one from the official side of the search was working those areas.

[Julia Geisler]

And I started to put out pleas to, like people on the county council and things like that or city council that I knew, saying, hey, can you help me encourage Summit county to join the search? We were like, we need help, we need more resources, and sent out the plea to Summit, and they declined.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Summer sunlight glared off the concrete as Russ Alston stepped out of the air conditioned comfort of his home in South Jordan, a suburb of Salt Lake City. He dragged a garden hose across the driveway over to his Chevy Suburban and started spraying down the big suv, blasting off a coating of dust, mud and bug guts, the remnants of a trip to the High Uintas with a group of Boy Scouts a week earlier.

[Russ Alston]

Because I'd hauled the whole crew up, all six of us, gear and all, and so I was washing the car and I got a phone call from Jay, my tent partner, and he said, hey, did you read the paper this morning? And I said no. And he said, read the front page of the local

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Russ and Jay were neighbors and fellow scoutmasters. They, along with a third adult leader, had led three teenage Scouts, one of them, Russ's own son, on a difficult trek.

[Russ Alston]

King's Peak, the highest point in Utah, was the ultimate goal, and we were going to take six days to carry out that plan.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Just to be clear, Russ Scout Group was not the one with the missing boy, Jared Ropalado. Russ's Scouts were a few years older, in their mid to late teens, and they had been in a different part of the Uintas. Russ put down the hose and went to find his copy of that morning's Deseret News. He unfolded the paper and saw a photo of a man who looked familiar, balding on top, gray hair at the sides. You recognize him, don't you? Jay asked.

[Russ Alston]

He told me what I was going to read, but I read the full article and it was essentially that Eric Robinson was overdue at the pickup point on the western extreme of the Highline Trail.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

The article said the last time anyone saw Eric was two weeks earlier, on Saturday, July 30, at Fox Lake. Russ realized that was wrong.

[Russ Alston]

We'd seen him after the report from

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

the newspaper, the two men agreed they needed to call the Duchenne county sheriff immediately and explain when and where they'd encountered Eric. The Boy Scouts of America have a long history in the Uinta Mountains, dating back almost to the organization's founding. Boy Scouts were some of the first to scale many Uinta peaks, one of the highest Explorer Peak is named in their honor. The Pulitzer Prize winning writer Wallace Stegner, one of my favorite authors, visited the Uintas as a teenage Scout in 1923. We walked no sword edge to get here, but we worked and had blisters to prove it. Stegner penned this essay about the trip decades later praising the Uintas as Eden. Places as perfect as this should be, as secret as they are inaccessible. They cannot stand advertising because we have a habit of destroying what we love. Stegner's Eden didn't remain a secret. Boy Scout troops made treks all across the Uintah range during the 1930s. Boys who completed the grueling hikes were called sourdoughs. That slang borrowed from the Klondike Gold rush where prospectors who survived at least one Yukon winter were called sourdoughs in reference to the sourdough bread starter many carried on the treacherous trail to the gold fields. Utah's Sourdough Scouts earned a special patch for their efforts and Russ group was following in that tradition in a way. During his trip in 2011, one of

[Russ Alston]

the things we looked at doing was earning a 50 mile patch through the Boy Scouts.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

They departed on Monday, August 1st. That would have been day five of Eric Robinson's hike. Half of their first day was taken up driving to the Swift Creek trailhead on the south slope of the Uintas. They started up the trail early in the afternoon at a slow pace.

[Russ Alston]

It feels like when you set out on a trail in the hyuanas after about 200 yards you feel like you're in a survival situation. You're like, did we go 10 miles or was that just 200 yards? It's like you're out of breath.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Out of breath because of the elevation. As we've talked about before, the Uintas rise high enough that many hikers have to acclimate to avoid the risk of altitude sickness. Russ was well aware of the effects of low oxygen on the body. He'd spent years as a fighter pilot in the US Air Force and was currently a captain for a major airline. He knew ascending slowly was the key to avoiding trouble.

[Russ Alston]

You don't want to be too fast. It's the tortoise and the hare syndrome.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

The Scout group hiked north up the canyon of Yellowstone Creek. They went about five miles or eight kilometers before making their first camp. They resumed hiking the next morning after

[Russ Alston]

a leisurely breakfast broke camp packed up. We were probably on the trail by 9ish.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

The trail paralleled Yellowstone Creek's east Bank. Russ couldn't see the creek much of the time because it was entrenched in a narrow gorge, but he could hear the roar of the frothy water cascading over rocks. The cool of morning soon gave way to the heat of midday. Russ monitored his scouts to make sure they were staying hydrated, another key to avoiding altitude sickness. He called for a break at about a quarter to noon.

[Russ Alston]

Let everybody get their breath, drop their pack. You're sweaty, cool off a little bit, recharge with water.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

During this break, Russ spotted someone approaching from the opposite direction.

[Russ Alston]

A gentleman comes down the trail that we meet going up.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

This man looked a little disheveled, but

[Russ Alston]

he had really good boots. He was in shorts, so lightweight. That's kind of the standard business casual of the backcountry, right? You know, you're probably wearing the same clothes if you're lightweight for multiple days. So the creases, you're nicely pressed. T shirts don't look quite as nice, maybe, and you have stubble.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Beyond clothing, Russ could see this solo hiker was well equipped.

[Russ Alston]

Trekking poles, a good internal frame backpack that was self contained. He didn't have a lot of gear dangling or extra strapped onto his pack. He looked fit and like he'd been out a few days and he was prepared for that.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

The man stopped and said, g', day, mate. How are you going?

[Russ Alston]

He was from Australia, definitely an Aussie

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

accent with a dash of Scottish, which I clearly can't mimic. The man introduced himself as Eric.

[Russ Alston]

Super pleasant, you know, solo hiker.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Russ felt curious about what would bring an older man so far across the world to walk such a remote trail all by himself.

[Russ Alston]

He started telling us of experiences he'd had, you know, on other treks. He had been in the Himalayas and he may have listed a few other places, but they were exotic places for, you know, intermountain West. And he had mentioned he and his wife had trekked a lot of those times. That is their hobby. That's what they spent their summers doing.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

But Eric said this time his wife Marilyn hadn't been able to join him.

[Russ Alston]

We chat with this gentleman for 20 to 30 minutes maybe about his experience and what we're doing and exchange, you know, ideas on the trail.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Eric said, a little ways up the canyon, they would come to a crossing of Yellowstone Creek. There was no bridge, no mossy log, no rocks to hop. They'd have to get their feet wet.

[Russ Alston]

So he was kind enough to explain that where the Mark trail crossed the river, that it was a little bit more channeled. And deep. And he said if you just go up river 50 yards, just a little bit more, that you'd find it opened up and there was more of a gravel bar and it was not as deep. So he was again, you realize his experience. He knows what he's looking for in river crossings.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Russ asked where Eric had come from. Eric said he was hiking the Uinta Highline Trail. That didn't make sense to Russ because

[Russ Alston]

he was headed south now and we were headed north up into that basin.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

The Highline Trail runs east to west. Eric was not on the High Line. In fact, he was heading away from it. His encounter with Russ occurred five miles or eight kilometers south of the High Line. Russ knew the High Line at the head of Yellowstone Creek, where he was headed with his scouts, sat above timberline in wide open alpine tundra. It seemed implausible this experienced Australian trekker could have mistakenly wandered so far off route, going so far downhill into the trees without realizing his mistake.

[Russ Alston]

I believe he recognized he was off trail and he asked us for kind of some assistance or guidance on that.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

As they talked, Eric described crossing Anderson Pass on the Uinta Highline Trail a day earlier. He said he had lost the trail on the west side of the pass

[Russ Alston]

and part of it was because of the snow. A lot of the trail is covered because of that heavy and late melt off.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Remember the mountaineer Art Lang, who we met before? He shared his story of encountering these same snowdrifts and going over the top of one of them on a knife edge of snow called a moat? Art crossed Anderson Pass on Aug. 9, more than a week after Eric. And a week of warm sunshine can melt a lot of snow in the Uintas. So the drifts were larger and more dangerous when Eric reached them on August 1st. Eric told Russ he had struggled to get around the snowdrifts rather than go above the wind way Art did. Eric went below.

[Russ Alston]

His description was letting himself down over more than just boulders, but kind of cliff faces. He had scraped up knuckles, skin a little bit roughed up like the mountains can do. And maybe, maybe his knees I can't picture exactly, but he was scuffed up, as I remember, a little bit, and he was complaining about that.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Eric said he had been unable to get back to the trail he had camped that night in the Yellowstone Basin, woke up that morning and continued on his way. Not long after, Eric came across a herd of sheep. He told Russ he found a pair of sheep herders and tried to talk to them. But a language barrier made that impossible. The herders gave Eric some coffee and posed for a couple pictures. Side note, these herders never came forward. To my knowledge, they were never identified or questioned. Eric's story of leaving the Highline Trail to get around steep snow on Anderson Pass made sense, but Russ felt confused about the part after that. The details were murky.

[Russ Alston]

The only thing I came away questioning was really his navigation, how he got off trail and couldn't get back on efficiently.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

According to Russ, Eric said he'd found a trail once down in the basin and followed it. That was the trail they were both now on. But again, it wasn't the High Line.

[Russ Alston]

We got maps out and I kind of described some of those options. He had to return to the High Line.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Russ told Eric he could either backtrack up the trail they were on, the Yellowstone Creek Trail, or continue downstream for another 30 minutes, watching for another trail that split off going west.

[Russ Alston]

I described a junction a little bit downriver. He could continue farther, hit a tee in the trail and then take a bypass to kind of an end run to get more back onto the Highline Trail.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Let me help you picture what Russ is describing. Think of the letter U or the shape of a horseshoe. Eric had started his day at the top right side of the horseshoe. He was supposed to cross the short gap to the top left side just a little hop over Tungsten Pass. Instead, Eric had gone downstream along Yellowstone Creek, the right side of the horseshoe. That's where he ran into Russ and the scouts. The trail junction a bit farther downstream was the curve at the bottom of the horseshoe. If Eric went that way, the trail would carry him up along the left side of the horseshoe back to the Highline. Walking this horseshoe instead of hopping the gap would be an exhausting time wasting detour. But on the upside, it would take Eric through the beautiful Garfield Basin, a place he had not see otherwise during

[Russ Alston]

the course of conversation. That's what I recommended to him.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Errik thought it over, then agreed he would follow the horseshoe. They folded up their maps, but as they prepared to part ways, Russ felt a twinge of concern. He warned Eric taking the Horseshoe would mean having to cross Yellowstone Creek again.

[Russ Alston]

I didn't know what that water crossing was going to hold for him. I didn't see it.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Eric thanked Russ for the information, said farewell and started off down the trail. Within a few moments, he disappeared around a bend. Russ roused his scouts and they resumed their march up the Yellowstone. Soon after, gray storm clouds rolled across the sky. It started to rain, the cold pelting kind of rain just on the verge of turning into hail. Russ wondered if the storm might make Yellowstone Creek swell just as Eric, the Aussie Trekker, was trying to cross.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

If the world were like a Sleep Number mattress, everything would adapt for your comfort. Because as your life changes and your body changes, Sleep Number mattresses adapt and shift to give you personalized comfort night after night. And now everything's on sale during our Memorial Day event. Save up to $1200 on mattresses plus free delivery when you add a base ends Monday. To experience a home world of comfort, visit a Sleep Number store or go to sleepnumber.com sleep number to a good life sleep when you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Grainger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Grainger offers millions of products in fast, dependable delivery so you can keep your facility stocked, safe and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. When you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Grainger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Grainger Granger offers millions of products in fast, dependable delivery so you can keep your facility stocked, safe and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities, so do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

@mint mobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee full [e-mail] the new WeGovy pill is now available through weight watchers. Powerful GLP1 results in a simple pill at the lowest price available and with Weight Watchers you can get doctor support and personalized nutrition programs. See if you [e-mail] ad not reviewed or approved by Novo Nordisk

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Scoutmaster Russ Alston's report to the Duchesne sheriff made an immediate impact on the search. Chief deputy Dave Boren shared the sighting with the media, telling reporters he wasn't giving up hope of finding Eric alive. He also informed Julia, who passed the word on to Marilyn.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

So there was renewed hope of some conclusion.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

The sighting along Yellowstone Creek was both more recent and farther along the trail than the previous last sighting at Fox lake. It was 10 days old rather than 14. Four extra days might not seem like much, but if Eric was in a survival situation, it might be the difference between finding him alive or not. Marilyn and Rachel went to their map of the Hay Uintas and found the spot on the Yellowstone. This became the new focus for the search.

[Rachel (Marilyn's daughter)]

Then there was the question of he was a little off the trail. He was a little bit lost. Did he know what he was doing? Was he a little disoriented? You know, he seemed a little fatigued, like the, I think, doubt. And in the absence of information, all these other questions would arise. And I. So I then think, well, what was he doing there?

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Marilyn and Rachel were trying to understand what Eric's mental state might have been at the time he met Russ. They didn't have a way to speak with Russ themselves, so the best they could do was use the time and place he had provided to calculate where Eric might have gone next.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

We have a bit more understanding of where he was last seen, how long he would travel, you know, in a day.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

They now had three dates and places. Eric's departure from Chipita Lake on July 28, his sighting at Fox Lake on July 30, and the encounter along Yellowstone Creek on August 2. From this, they could derive a rough estimate of Eric's pace. He had averaged fewer than six miles per day. Marilyn, Rachel, and Julia used that to estimate how far Eric might have traveled in the time. Since they also considered other variables, the

[Marilyn Kulstra]

weather became a very significant factor in all of this.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

What was the concern with the weather,

[Marilyn Kulstra]

the winds, the rain, the storm that had come through, and just what he would have done in those circumstances? From my previous experience, he would have pitched the tent and stayed inside.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

It remained plausible. Errik might have sheltered in his tent for two or three days, Then proceeded at a slow pace. He could still be out there alive, or maybe in haste, trying to make up ground, under rain and fog, he slipped and fell.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

If something like that had happened and he was conscious, he would have set

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

off that epirb, the emergency beacon.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

You know, that was the bargaining piece of his. I can go and Hike because I've got this epirb. If something happens, I go off the trail or whatever, I can set the EPIRB off. Why didn't it go off? Why haven't we had a beacon? Because something significant has stopped him from doing that.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Rachel summarized all of this in another email to friends and family back in Australia. Here's what she wrote. That Saturday night, we were sitting quietly

[Rachel (Marilyn's daughter)]

at 6pm, contemplating yet another day of disappointment, when the phone rang and the sheriff reported an official sighting. He was contacted today by a Boy Scout leader who spoke for some time to Eric on August 2nd. Whilst that is still technically 10 days ago, we feel this is still some positive progress.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Rachel said the sighting now puts searchers directly on Eric's tail.

[Rachel (Marilyn's daughter)]

Eric had been and was moving very slowly, slower than he or others had anticipated. It is still feasible that he is trying to make his way out and is lost somewhere. We still have hope that this is the case.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

A moment ago, Marilyn raised the question, why hadn't Eric's emergency beacon gone off? I think taking a closer look at Eric's experience on Anderson Pass might help us answer that. Eric didn't like snow. We've heard Marilyn say that several times.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

I think he would avoid it. I mean, if it's light smattering of snow, that's no real hindrance, but if it's. If you're encountering big pockets of snow, he would be thinking, how am I going to do this?

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Eric wasn't a climber, but Marilyn told me he knew how to scramble, using both hands and feet to move across steep terrain. She'd seen him do it on the Annapurna circuit.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

We had to scarper up shale rocks to be able to steer clear of the yaks stampeding down the track. You know, I can remember hanging onto each other on the side of the trail, you know, as these yaks went thundering past.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Eric's second trip to Nepal, less than a year before his Uinta Highline hike introduced him to the dangers of crossing steep snow. And remember, he had lost his closest adventure buddy, Alan Beck, in a fatal fall from glacier ice in New Zealand. So I think it's safe to assume the idea of crossing the drift spooked Eric. He wouldn't risk taking it head on. We know Eric found another way around because he told the scoutmaster, Russ, about it. But even Russ didn't really understand the risks Eric took in doing that until he set eyes on the snowdrift himself. Russ and the Scouts headed for Kings Peak the day after meeting Eric. They followed the Highline Trail going east uphill toward Anderson Pass.

[Russ Alston]

The trail is well marked. I find out the next day going up.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

That is until they reached the edge of the drift.

[Russ Alston]

It's just all snow field and it's deep, packed up five feet, maybe more.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

You can't really tell that's more than a light smattering. And it was steep.

[Russ Alston]

You know, I'd have to get my geometry set out to figure out that angle. But it looked. It's about 45 degree angle straight off. And 45 degrees is like a roof.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Russ looked for a safe way to go above or below the drift, but couldn't spot one. He tested the snow with his boot. It felt slick and unstable. He could probably get across by kicking steps in the snow. But one bad step might prove fatal if you slip.

[Russ Alston]

You can't necessarily, necessarily stop yourself on snow if you're not equipped with an ice ax. Ropes tethered up together, which we weren't, and preparation. One of my boys that we're leading is in tennis shoes. So he doesn't have any grip and the ability to dig a heel in because he's got flat bottomed Converse, you know, high tech top tennis shoes.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Russ told his Scouts this was as far as they would go. They abandoned their hopes of reaching the summit of Kings Peak. It's worth noting Russ description of the drift is the closest we can get to seeing it through Eric's eyes. And Russ decision not to risk crossing it reinforces my belief that the snow spooked Eric. Before the Boy Scouts retreated back to their camp, Russ took a moment to picture the path Eric must have taken to bypass the drift, leaving the trail and descending into the Yellowstone basin.

[Russ Alston]

I kind of sorted through and understood what he was describing, that he came off the hill and kind of went directly downhill. And then he described kind of hand over foot of letting himself down the face of the rock. A treacherous path, basically.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

What does treacherous really mean though? To find out, I needed to see the spot for myself. That's one of the reasons I embarked on my own Uintah highline hike in 2023, following in Eric's footsteps. My hike came during a big snow year in the uintas, just like 2011, and I intentionally started my hike on the same date as Eric. July 28th. I reached Anderson Pass two days ahead of Eric's pace and thought I might also run into dangerous snow.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

Okay, I am looking, I am looking at one of the snow fields that Eric Robinson likely had to contend with.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

From a distance I could tell the drift was much smaller than it was would have been for Eric.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

It is retreated high enough that it's not covering the trail. But two or three weeks ago, this would have probably descended to a point where it covered the trail and I either would have had to cross it, climb up above it or go down below it.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

I'll remind you this is the same place. Art the mountaineer told us he circled above the drift and crossed the top of it on that moat. Eric had gone the other way, trying to divert below the drift. I looked down the steep talus that dropped away to my left and felt my stomach flop.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

Alright, I am right at the base of this snowfield. Thank goodness it is not covering the trail for me because scrambling down that rock pile looks like a nightmare. Oh my word. Because that just ends in cliffs.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

I could see the way Eric must have gone, stepping and sliding toward the edge, dislodging stones that clattered over the brink. He would have found a notch or gap in the cliff where he could lower himself down.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

So if I had to pick my way down, I can, I can kind of see how I could scramble down this chute. But that looks like it. Cliffs out, that would be extremely unfun.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Remember, Eric's not a rock climber. He wasn't carrying any climbing gear. A fall could easily injure or kill him. And Russ, the scoutmaster had noticed scrapes and bruises that suggested Eric likely had a close call.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

Probably had some slip falls where he lost his traction, fell on his butt, caught himself with his hands, scraped his knuckles up.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Eric chose to take this treacherous path rather than use his emergency beacon. I can think of two explanations why. First, he didn't want to admit defeat and thought the challenge was within his ability to overcome, which obviously it was. Second, Errik kept the beacon in his backpack, which meant he couldn't get to it. Once he had started climbing down through the cliffs, using both hands and feet to keep from falling. And by the time he got to the bottom of the cliffs, he didn't need to use it because he wasn't in life threatening danger anymore.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

Part of what that what really impresses upon me is just how tough and determined Eric was.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Eric was a problem solver, unlikely to call for rescue unless he was literally dying. And this will be an important point to remember later in our story. Maybe it was just the cool breeze on my sweaty back, but I shuddered. Best to keep moving. I continued on, stepping over a trickle of meltwater as it flowed across the trail, thinking through all of this while headed down from Anderson Pass, put me in a strange headspace. I felt hyper aware of my own vulnerability, especially because I was alone. If I had an accident, who would even know?

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

This is not a fault to your death spot, but it is a fall

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

and hurt yourself spot.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

So let's not do that. Big step.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

It's possible to go days at a time without seeing another person on the Uinta Highline Trail. And the meetings you do have tend to be brief.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

Hello. Morning to you.

[Russ Alston]

Morning.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

How's it going? Well, good. Where are you coming from before it rains? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're pushing. Will do. Have a good summit. Yeah, I need to be the first guy soon. I love that. That's the way it should be.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

This solitude is part of what draws me to wild places. But it can also amplify the consequences of if something goes wrong. I found myself wondering what would happen if I failed to finish my hike. Say I disappeared like Eric. When would people notice I was overdue? Who would come looking for me? Would any other hikers remember seeing me? Three women came into view as I was mulling this over. They were hiking up to the pass as I headed down, yield to uphill traffic. I found a safe spot to step aside as they approached. Hello.

[Russ Alston]

Hi.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

Where are y' all coming from?

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

We started at China Meadows.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

Okay.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

And then we camped at Upper Red Castle.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

Nice.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

These hikers noticed the cameras, audio recorder, microphones, stands and cables dangling off my pack.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah, you got a lot of stuff on you.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

Yeah. Makes the climb even worse.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

They asked what I was up to. I told them I was working on a podcast about an Australian backpacker who had disappeared up here.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

Coming down off of Anderson, he lost the trail and, like, went straight down this scree field. And then he camped down here. And so the high line, like the low little knob over here, that's Tungsten Pass. All he had to do was go over to Tungsten, hop it, and then, like, head straight west. Porcupine. Instead, he went all the way down this river drainage. So it's like, why did he do that? Was he, like, trying to bail out? Did he get lost?

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Bail out? Remember that phrase? I'll come back to it. What's your practice? Yeah, I'd be interested to listen.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

It's not going to be out for a while. It'll probably be called Uinta Triangle, but we don't know for sure yet.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

There's nothing more cringe worthy than listening to a dude talk about his podcast. But I figured the easiest way for these hikers to find this show once it eventually came out would be for them to follow another series I had already released.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

If you're from Salt Lake, have you ever heard of Cold the podcast?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Oh yeah, we've all watched that.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

That's me.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

That's it. I didn't want to embarrass myself any further, so I wished them a safe hike and continued on my way.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

Have fun. Safe hike.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Yeah, you too. Excited to hear it?

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

Me too.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Eric made it safely down to the floor of the Yellowstone Cir. But he was off the trail and couldn't see any obvious markers pointing the way back to it. That's because there aren't any, Marilyn told me. That would have frustrated Eric.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

He probably would have sworn first off, you know, get a bit of heat out of it. But he would have been into the problem solving mode of what do I do about this? He would have been consulting with his map. He would have been checking on the gps.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Many of the trails Eric had previously walked across the world were marked with posts or blazes. Those are carved symbols on tree trunks or bits of reflective flagging. The Uintah Highline doesn't have blazes. Sometimes the High Line's marked by cairns or piles of rocks, but even those are infrequent at best. And we know Eric complained about this when he encountered Russ, the Boy Scout leader. The next day, Eric told Russ he wandered a bit before finding a sheepherder camp. I know where that herder camp is because I went there too. You already heard me complain about all all the garbage I found there. In an earlier bit of our story, the Herter camp sits right near an important intersection where the Highline Trail and the Yellowstone Creek Trail meet.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

I'm standing at the junction of the Yellowstone Creek and Smith Fork Pass Trail with the Uintah Highline Trail. And these trails make a rough X. Yellowstone Creek one one way, Smith Fork passed the other way. You went to Highline Crossing right between them. As I turn, I can look down and see the meadows where Eric observed sheep grazing.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

This trail junction's just above timberline. A hiker here has unobstructed views of the surrounding terrain. Major landmarks, including King's Peak, are easy to see and identify.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

This would have been a very unusual place for Eric to lose his way. I can easily see the Uinta Highline Trail cut through open meadow going up toward Tungsten Pass. But I can also very easily see the Yellowstone Creek Trail. So did he inadvertently walk right by that intersection? Was he distracted by the view of the sheep Was he going down to take a look at the sheep? Or did he perhaps have other thoughts in mind about whether or not he wanted to continue on the Uintah Highline or bail out, end his trip by hiking out the Yellowstone Creek Trail?

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

There's that phrase bail out again. I should explain what I mean by that. When the story of Eric's encounter with Russ and the Boy Scouts made the news back in 2011, the common assumption was that he had become lonely, lost. And it made sense, at least at a surface level. Eric didn't know the Uintas and he had even told Russ he lost the trail coming off Anderson Pass. But the more I learned about Eric, his experience and his equipment, the more I came to doubt his turn down the Yellowstone Creek Trail was a mistake. Put yourself in Eric's boots. He runs into steep snow on Anderson Pass that reminds him of his friend Allen's death in New Zealand. He takes a dangerous detour down through cliffs and once safely to the floor of the Yellowstone Cirque struggles to find the trail again.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

He would have been looking for solutions to what the problem might be.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

So he takes out his map and GPS and uses them to find his way back to the trail. The next morning, he continues on the High Line until he comes to a four way intersection. Here he faces a choice. Continue on the High Line with five more passes still to cross, including the notoriously difficult Dead Horse, or leave the High Line and hike down the Yellowstone Creek Trail, ending his trek.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

He knew well enough that you could walk out of the trails along your major walks at many points.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

I asked Marilyn, would Eric bail out if he felt unsafe?

[Marilyn Kulstra]

I've asked myself that. I don't know. But he was not a quitter. You know, he would persist and persist and you know, he was a stayer for the journey. So I'm not convinced that he would pull the pin on it.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

But Marilyn's never seen the slope Erik descended with her own eyes. I've showed her photos, but they don't do it justice. As I stood at the intersection of the Highline and Yellowstone Creek trails, I considered my next move. To follow Eric's path, I would have to leave the High Line here.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

The walk I'm about to do today is probably going to be the worst part of this trip and I've known that ever since I started planning this moment ago. Because in order to follow Eric's route, I have to spend hours hiking basically useless miles away from the High Line, dropping in elevation and then ultimately climbing all that elevation back to end up almost exactly where I started.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

This is that horseshoe I described earlier. I was standing at the top right, looking across the gap toward the top left.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

I'm looking at Tungsten Pass right now. And I'll be honest. I don't want to spend a whole day walking down this trail into the trees when my goal is just over there. I mean, I could be over that in 30 minutes.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Tungsten Pass isn't much of a challenge. It's not steep and doesn't hold snow. It's by far the least imposing hurdle Eric would have had to cross, so I can't imagine him being intimidated by it. But I know he didn't cross it, so neither would I. I turned off the Highline Trail and headed down Yellowstone Creek. The forest deepened around me. The creek ran by my side. It was obvious I was leaving the high and wild. At one point, I even passed another trail junction with the sign pointing eastward to Bluebell Pass. Eric would have seen the same sign.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

This leads me to believe that Eric knew very well that he was leaning. He was not lost. He had not made a mistake. He had already crossed the Yellowstone Creek, having deforded. Then he came to this trail junction, saw this sign that said Highline Trail back the way he came, and yet he continued on down toward the Swift Creek trailhead as if his plan was to leave.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

The problem with this theory is, as far as we know, Eric didn't say a word. Word about bailing out to Russ and the Boy Scouts. But then I wonder if he would have. Again, put yourself in Eric's place. He's a confident, experienced trekker. Assume he got spooked coming off Anderson Pass. He's decided to bail and is on his way out when he runs into a group of teenagers lounging trailside, at least one of them in sneakers. Maybe he feels a bit embarrassed and decides he's overreacting. Eric doesn't have a good explanation for why he's so far off route at this point, so he plays it off as being disoriented. I ran this hypothetical by Julia. She thought it sounded plausible.

[Julia Geisler]

Who knows what the actual conversation was between the two parties? What was said by Eric? Who knows? You know how that was interpreted. You're with a bunch of Boy Scout kids.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

It's like.

[Julia Geisler]

Like, okay, I know what I'm doing. I know where I am. He had his GPS unit. He has his maps.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Eric bailing out and then changing his mind is the only scenario that makes sense to me. Having walked this same path, I just don't Think Eric would have made such an obvious navigational error and compounded it at every opportunity. Back in 2011, news reports about the sighting of Eric along Yellowstone Creek generated a burst of public interest. It brought out new volunteers. Marilyn, Rachel and Julia spent Sunday, August 14, day seven of the search, sending them out with assignments.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

Julia had a constant stream of people coming and going from the house, directing them to different places. It was a lot of meeting people for the first time and in that emotional state, you know, still not even connecting the names and who does what.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

And some of these introductions felt a bit bizarre, like one involving a man who wanted to track Eric through supernatural means.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

There was a tracker who appeared from somebody's contact who came and talked to me and said, what do you feel about the. And tell me about that. And, you know, he was going out there with the vibes to try and locate Eric.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

When I saw the word tracker in the official reports, I was picturing, you

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

know, this, looking for the footprints. Your description of tracker is much more hippy, dippy.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

Well, that's the person that was in front of me. You know, looking for footprints and evidence would be more my experience. And I'm going, okay, so this maybe is just someone else's different skill. And I'm ready to go with that.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

You're taking any help you need.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

That's right.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Rachel found herself answering questions from strangers about how Eric might have reacted if attacked by a bear or how he had manage a broken leg.

[Rachel (Marilyn's daughter)]

You know, there was even this question that foul play, maybe a shifty sheep

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

herder had done Eric in, or another hiker killed him in a botched backcountry robbery.

[Rachel (Marilyn's daughter)]

And they wanted me. They suggested that maybe I raise that with the police to be given more consideration. I was like, get out of town. Like, I am not doing, like they will think I am crazy. But then the question did play on your mind about, well, maybe that did happen.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

The more rational explanation was Eric might have been swept away by the waters of Yellowstone Creek shortly after parting ways with Russ and the Boy Scouts. That was the working theory. At the Duchesne County Sheriff's Office, Chief Deputy Dave Boren dispatched a search party on horseback, instructing them to travel to that creek crossing. If they didn't find Eric there, they were to continue up into the Garfield Basin along the route Eric told Russ he planned to take to get back to the Highline Trail. And Marilyn, at long last received a personal call from the sheriff. He invited her to come meet with him in person at 8am the next morning. Marilyn felt a surge of hope.

[Marilyn Kulstra]

There's a lot of action up there in the mountains and hope sort of crept back into my thoughts that I would be taking him home alive rather than, you know, any other way.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Rachel sent another email that night.

[Rachel (Marilyn's daughter)]

It's 9:30pm Here we are preparing for a long day tomorrow.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

She said they had borrowed a car and would rise early the next morning to drive out and meet the sheriff.

[Rachel (Marilyn's daughter)]

The sighting yesterday buoyed our spirits. The knowledge of the dates of the storms in the area also helps us accurately plot where he may have been in stormy and windy weather. We've carefully plotted the timeline for a slow trip and for a quicker trip. All of this information together with the last sighting have helped enormously in terms of where to direct the resources. The helicopter is back on board. There are no missing Boy Scouts to divert it. If there is room on the chopper I will go out for a day trip to search with one of the experienced searches. I know you have all been sending your thoughts, prayers and energies. Keep it up as we are very hopeful of some news in the coming days.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

My hike following Eric's path continued down the Yellowstone Creek trail. After a few hours I reached the T intersection where Eric would have had to make a choice straight ahead to bail out or a 90 degree turn to the right to head back up to the Highline a critical decision point at the bottom of the horseshoe. Which path did Eric choose? We know he didn't come out to the trailhead so he must have made the turn that meant I had to do the same. I immediately ran into the ford of Yellowstone Creek where some people suspected Eric might have slipped and been swept away. With caution I crossed knee deep pools of water. The pressure of the current pushed against my legs. My feet slipped over slimy rocks it wouldn't take much to fall. Once on the far side I started up the trail to the Garfield basin but soon discovered it was was in terrible condition.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

Like picture rocks the size of your fist down to rocks the size of peas as just a loose gravel spread that on a slope that's your Frickin Trail. Every 500 yards or so you're gonna run into a tree that's fallen down.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Across this trail a steady stream of cloud cold rain started to fall as I did hurdles over these blowdowns it's

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

just uphill grind grind grind and of course it's raining for two hours as I'm doing this grind and so now that gravel is on a surface of mud. Yeah just stinking mud.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

I was wet tired, and if you can't tell, a little cranky.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

Today is day four of my Uinta Highline crossing. This is supposed to be the halfway day and it is the frickin low point of my mood so far. No question.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

I imagine Eric would have felt much the same. He too would have dealt with rain on this part of his walk. The searchers who came up through the Garfield Basin on horses didn't find any indication he had walked this trail. No proof he ever returned to the Uintah Highline. But then the rain would have washed away his footprints. My storm lasted for hours. It finally broke as I emerged from tree cover next to a body of water called Five Point Lake. A chill wind came and went, rippling the lake's surface, making a million little glimmers of sunlight sparkle. The beauty abolished my bad mood. The world felt fresh, washed clean. I pushed on northward, crossing soggy meadows, my soaked shoes squelching with every step. The sun drooped against the edge of a high ridge to my left, casting shadows in the shapes of mountains across my path. I had hoped to make it all the way back to the Highline Trail before nightfall, but my tired legs were starting to stumble. So I found a patch of gnarled, stubby trees growing in the shelter of a large boulder and dropped my pack there.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

I am spent.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Today was a very long day.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

I just rolled into what is going

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

to have to be camp for for

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

night four, my halfway mark.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

I assessed my situation as the daylight dwindled.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

It rained for a solid three hours this afternoon. Everything got soaked.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

I was really demoralized. A blanket of dark cloud began to slide in again just as the last of the sun disappeared. My golden hour reprieve was over.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

Some not happy clouds are blowing in from the west, so I need to get into dry clothes, get dinner cooked, and get shelter up fast before I

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

get rained on again.

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

So that's what you're gonna listen to me do?

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

I won't actually make you listen to all that. We'll fast forward. When I crawled into my tent

[Field Reporter/Hiker]

and

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

settled down to bed, I couldn't sleep. My mind kept spinning, running through all the could have beens. Like what if Eric hadn't bumped into the Boy Scouts on that day? Another few hours he would have been to a trailhead and he could have bailed out. He might have made it home to Maryland and I wouldn't be here telling you this story. But then there's that conversation with Russ Alston and his group and this turns everything around. That chance encounter changed Eric's trajectory. Instead of ending his hike early, he must have recommitted himself to completing the Uintah hike. I imagined how he might have felt resting in this exact same spot after a long, difficult day. Was he relieved? Resolved? Anxious? Unsure? Did he think of Home, of Marilyn and the story he would tell her about this adventure? When he returned, The breeze died down and an eerie silence settled. A lone coyote bellowed in the distance. As I at last began to drift in and out of restless sleep, I I wondered what songs the wild things once sang for Eric's ears alone. Uinta Triangle includes immersive field recordings made in real outdoor locations. For the best listening experience, please consider using a good pair of stereo headphones. And if you'd like to build a better picture of the places we visit, you can find maps, photos and [e-mail] that's uinta spelled uintatriangle.com find us on social media using uintatriangle. Bringing you this story has been an effort years in the making to support this kind of work. Please follow the show and share it with your friends. You can also help us by supporting subscribing to Lemonada Premium right in your podcast player. It gets you access to exclusive bonus episodes. Here's producer Andrea Smarten with a peek at the latest bonus in this podcast

[Julia Geisler]

we learn that if someone isn't found

[Narrator/Advertiser]

within a couple days of going missing

[Julia Geisler]

in the Uinta Mountains, chances are they'll never be found.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Bonus episode five is about every parent's

[Julia Geisler]

nightmare, the story of three year old

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Benjamin Mairup who was lost in the Uintas. It's also the story of a community that pulled together in a short window

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

of time to search for him. Uinta Triangle is researched and written by me, Dave Colley. I also did the field recording. Andrea Smarten is lead producer and sound designer with contributing producers Ben Kiebrick and Jenny Ament. Our main score and original music are by Alison Lee. Additional voices in this episode from Dan Bam, Uinta Triangle is a production of KSL Podcasts and Lemonada Media. My personal thanks to the following past and present members of the KSL Podcasts team Aaron Mason, Amy Donaldson, Felix Bunnell, Josh Tilton, Kellyanne Halvorson, Nina Ernest, Ryan Meeks and Trent Selling finally from me to you. Please remember wherever your life's trail takes you, none of us ever truly walk alone.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

If the world were like a sleep number mattress, everything would adapt for your comfort. Because as your life changes and your body changes, sleep number mattresses Adapt and shift to give you personalized comfort night after night. And now everything's on sale during our Memorial Day event. Save up to $1,200 on mattresses for a limited time. To experience a whole new world of comfort, visit a Sleep Number store or go to Sleep Number Sleep Number to a good life Sleep. When you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Grainger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Grainger offers millions of products in fast, dependable delivery. So you can keep your facility stocked, safe, and running smooth, smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Mom, can you tell me a story?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Sure. Once upon a time, a mom needed a new car. Was she brave?

[Julia Geisler]

She was tired mostly.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

But she went to Carvana.com and found a great car at a great price. No secret treasure map required.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Did you have to fight a dragon?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Nope. She bought it 100% online from her bed, actually.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Was it scary?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Honey, it was as unscary as car buying could be. Did the car have a sunroof?

[Julia Geisler]

It did, actually.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Okay, good story.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Car buying you'll want to tell stories about. Buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply. This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. Ready to refresh your wardrobe? Nordstrom has all the latest styles for spring. From elevated dresses and denim to standout tops and accessories. Discover the trends in a single essentials you'll reach for again and again. We've got brands you love like Waif, Princess, Polly Mango, Adidas and Favorite Daughter. Plus free shipping, free returns and quick order pickup. Make updating your closet effortless. Shop in [e-mail] or download our app.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

I sold my car in Carvana last night.

[Julia Geisler]

Well, that's cool.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

No, you don't understand.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

It went perfectly.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Real offer down to the penny.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

They're picking it up tomorrow. Nothing went wrong.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

So what's the problem?

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

That is the problem.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Nothing in my life goes to smoothly.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

I'm waiting for the catch.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Maybe there's no catch.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

That's exactly what a catch would want me to think.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Wow. You need to relax.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

I need to knock on wood. Do we have. What is this? Table wood?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

I think it's laminate.

[Dave Cawley (Host/Narrator)]

Okay. Yeah, that's good.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

That's close enough. Car selling without a catch. Sell your car today on Car Pick up. These may apply.