Mommy's Rules

Summary

Cold Case Files: "Mommy's Rules" - A Detailed Summary

Host: Marissa Pinson
Title: Mommy's Rules
Release Date: June 10, 2025

---

Introduction

In the gripping episode titled "Mommy's Rules" from Cold Case Files, host Marissa Pinson delves into one of the most heart-wrenching and intricate cold cases in American history. Combining meticulous investigative work with a deeply personal narrative, this episode unveils how the courage of one individual can breathe life into decades-old mysteries.

---

The Placer County Jane Doe (1984)

The story begins in 1984 when Patrolman Steve Frick discovers a grisly scene in Placer County, California.

• Discovery: At 6 AM, Frick notices smoke and investigates, finding human remains piled in a makeshift funeral site.

  Marissa Pinson [00:00]: "In fact, one-third of all murders in America remain open. But thanks to dogged investigators and breakthroughs in forensic technology, these cases become part of the rare 1% of cold cases that are ever solved."

• Victim Description: Detective John Adams describes the victim as a teenage blonde with severely burned limbs.

  John Adams [01:32]: "It's an obvious homicide as soon as you saw it. She had duct tape across her mouth and duct tape remnants on both of her wrists..."

• Investigation Challenges: The victim, later referred to as Jane Doe, was identified as a likely out-of-area dump, complicating identification due to the absence of ID and witnesses.

  John Adams [02:06]: "You need to know who the victim is because you don't even know where she's from."

• Forensic Roadblocks: Attempts to identify Jane Doe faltered as her hands were too burned for fingerprints, and her teeth offered no dental records.

  John Adams [03:02]: "Her hands were burned to where we couldn't get fingerprints, and about half of her face was pretty destroyed."

Despite these obstacles, investigators persisted, creating composites and entering details into missing persons databases, but without success.

---

The Nevada County Discovery (1985)

A year after the Placer County case, Nevada County faces a similar tragedy.

• Discovery: Deputy Liz Reykop and detectives find a decomposed female body stuffed into a square box near Martis Creek Lake.

  Liz Reykop [04:08]: "I looked in it and it was pretty nasty looking. It was... This was a horrible, horrible scene."

• Investigative Findings: Like the Placer case, the Nevada victim showed signs of foul play but lacked identifiable information. The presence of diapers suggested possible involvement of a child or maternal figure.

  Liz Reykop [05:51]: "It had been used to hold popcorn cups... That was the only clue on the box at all."

Efforts to link the two cases were initially unsuccessful, leaving both cases cold for years.

---

Introducing Terry Knorr: The Courage to Speak Out

Enter Terry Knorr, a 23-year-old with a tumultuous past marked by severe abuse from her mother, Teresa Knorr.

• Childhood Abuse: Terry recounts horrific abuse, including being locked in a deep freezer and forced into inhumane conditions.

  Terry Knorr [10:05]: "She took a rope, wrapped it around my neck, threw it over a door, stripped me butt naked and proceeded to beat me within an inch of my life..."

• Familial Violence: Teresa Knorr's violence escalated, leading to the murders of Terry's two older sisters, Susan and Sheila.

  Terry Knorr [12:33]: "My mom had on this chieftain big dress... pulled the damn thing out of her pocket and she shot her."

• Escape and Resolve: At 15, aware of the impending threat to her own life, Terry takes drastic measures to confront her mother, leading to her eventual escape.

  Terry Knorr [21:54]: "Something in me snapped... You're never gonna hit me again."

---

Linking the Cold Cases

Terry's harrowing account eventually draws the attention of cold case detectives, Ron Perea and John Fitzgerald.

• Validation of Details: Terry's vivid descriptions, including specific evidence like broken teeth and the unique box from the movie theater, closely matched the untitled victims' profiles.

  Susan Knorr [26:12]: "This was in the kitchen floor of the apartment on Auburn Boulevard. My mother placed a pillow under her stomach and made her lay like this so that it was taut, her back was taut to where the bullet would poke through."

• Forensic Breakthrough: Latent fingerprints from the Placer County case matched one of Terry's brothers, strengthening the case against the Knorr family.

  Ron Perea [28:45]: "We were never able to match that fingerprint up to anybody until after Terry reported the crimes to us."

---

Confrontation and Confession

The investigation culminates in the arrest and confession of Teresa Knorr.

• Interrogation: William Knorr, Terry's brother, provides crucial testimony detailing Teresa's actions during the murders.

  William Knorr [35:19]: "She was out on one side with Cherica sitting on top of her on the other side... We got the stuff out, set it down..."

• Capture: Teresa is apprehended in Salt Lake City and ultimately pleads guilty to two counts of first-degree murder, receiving a sentence of 25 years to life.

  Marissa Pinson [38:30]: "Theresa Knorr is judged by the court mentally fit to stand trial... she pleads guilty to two counts of first degree murder."

---

Resolution and Reflection

The episode concludes with Terry Knorr finding closure and honoring her sisters' memories.

• Personal Closure: Terry visits her sister Susan's grave and reflects on the significance of giving her sisters back their identities.

  Terry Knorr [39:31]: "I wanted my mom to pay for what she had done... I never understood why she made me go through that same pain."

• Impact: The brave testimony of Terry Knorr not only solved two cold cases but also highlighted the resilience of a survivor determined to seek justice for her family.

---

Conclusion

"Mommy's Rules" is a poignant testament to the enduring human spirit and the relentless pursuit of truth. Through meticulous investigation and the bravery of Terry Knorr, Cold Case Files sheds light on the darkest corners of familial abuse and the triumph of justice over obscurity.

---

Notable Quotes:

• John Adams [01:32]: "It's an obvious homicide as soon as you saw it. She had duct tape across her mouth and duct tape remnants on both of her wrists..."

• Liz Reykop [04:08]: "I looked in it and it was pretty nasty looking. It was... This was a horrible, horrible scene."

• Terry Knorr [10:05]: "She took a rope, wrapped it around my neck, threw it over a door, stripped me butt naked and proceeded to beat me within an inch of my life..."

• Ron Perea [28:45]: "We were never able to match that fingerprint up to anybody until after Terry reported the crimes to us."

• Terry Knorr [39:31]: "I wanted my mom to pay for what she had done... I never understood why she made me go through that same pain."

---

This episode serves as a powerful reminder of the importance of perseverance in law enforcement and the profound impact one individual's courage can have in unraveling the most harrowing of mysteries.

Transcript

[Marissa Pinson]

Hi, cold case listeners. I'm Marissa Pinson, and if you're enjoying this show, I just want to remind you that episodes of Cold Case Files, as well as the A and E classic podcasts, I Survived, American justice and City Confidential, are all available ad free on the new A and E Crime and Investigation channel on Apple Podcasts and Apple plus for just $4.99 a month or $39.99 a year. And now onto the show. This episode contains stories involving violence against children. Listener discretion is advised. There are over 100,000 cold cases in America. Only 1% are ever solved. This is one of those rare stories. It's 1984 in Placer County, California. At 6am Patrolman Steve Frick heads south on Highway 89 toward Lake Tahoe. Turning a bend in the road, Frick spies smoke in the distance and catches the first whiff of murder in the air. The patrolman pulls over and two motorists direct him to human remains heaped upon a makeshift funeral pile.

[Ron Perea]

She was blonde, probably early to mid teens, I believe. One of her legs had burned off below the knee and was resting on the ground beside her.

[Marissa Pinson]

Frick places a call to the nearest sheriff's substation. On the receiving end is Detective John Adams.

[John Adams]

It's an obvious homicide as soon as you saw it. She had duct tape across her mouth and duct tape remnants on both of her wrists, but her features were so destroyed, we knew it was going to make identification a challenge.

[Marissa Pinson]

Hydrocarbon tests established that gasoline had been used to douse the victim and then burn her. The body's proximity to the highway tells Adams the scene is most likely a dump site and not where the victim was killed, making identification even more critical.

[John Adams]

In this type of situation with a body dump, you need to know who the victim is because you don't even know where she's from. And there's no witnesses as to who she might be or who associated with her. You have really nothing until you can identify her.

[Marissa Pinson]

Scattered around the corpse are plastic bags full of clothes and personal belongings. None of them, however, contain an ID or any clue as to the identity of the corpse. Investigators also find baby diapers nearby, leading to speculation that the Jane Doe might have been a mother or traveling with an infant. Beyond that, little else can be gleaned from the crime scene. Jane Doe's body is transferred to the medical examiner's office for autopsy. Adams hopes forensics can lift a fingerprint from the corpse or create a dental chart that will provide a name for the victim and a starting point for the investigation. Those hopes, however, are in vain.

[John Adams]

Her hands were burned to where we couldn't get fingerprints, and about half of her face was pretty destroyed. She had no dental work, she had no fillings, nothing.

[Marissa Pinson]

With nowhere else to go, Adams turns to a sketch artist who creates a computer composite of what Jane Doe might have looked like. The composite, along with the details of the body and dump site, are entered into the California Department of Justice missing persons database. Weeks pass, and the system fails to return a hit. Adams begins to lose hope that he will ever ID Jane Doe, never mind find her killer.

[John Adams]

As it got colder and colder, I thought it was very unlikely that we'd ever solved the case.

[Marissa Pinson]

One year later, a husband and wife dropped their fishing lines among the weeds of Martis Creek Lake. Instead of fish, however, the couple hooks a box with a foul smell. Nevada County Sheriff's Deputy Liz Reykop has been in law enforcement for two years. No amount of fieldwork, however, prepares her for what she finds inside the box.

[Liz Reykop]

I looked in it and it was pretty nasty looking. It was. There were bed linens and things wrapped around this. You could just see part of the arm, but it was pretty bad.

[Marissa Pinson]

A square box, 2ft by 2ft, covered with tape masking the remains of a decomposing body.

[Liz Reykop]

It was a dark color and it just. There was maggots. All the maggots were just awful. And it was just a horrible, horrible scene.

[Marissa Pinson]

Ray Kopp and sheriff's detectives pulled the decomposing body from the box. The victim, a woman, appears to have been tied up prior to being killed.

[Liz Reykop]

Inside there was like sheets and pillowcases and maybe a towel. And it looks like she was probably wrapped up in those and then stuffed in this box. She barely fit in the box. She came all the way up to the top and I was amazed that they could get a body in a box that size.

[Marissa Pinson]

As with the Placer County Corps, investigators believe the Nevada county victim was killed somewhere else and then dumped near the lake.

[Liz Reykop]

It was pretty obvious it was a dump site. There was no evidence of anything around. You know, the box all taped up like that and it was obviously a dump site.

[Marissa Pinson]

The corpse is transferred to the medical examiner's office for an autopsy. Meanwhile, Ray Kopp returns to the scene searching for clues. She finds one in the form of writing on the box.

[Liz Reykop]

It had been used to hold popcorn cups that popcorn is served in. And I can't remember the brand now, but that was the only clue on the box at all.

[Marissa Pinson]

Raycop places calls to local movie theaters asking if they recognize the box from their inventory or use the brand of popcorn advertised on its side. None of the theaters, however, can be linked to the box. Meanwhile, forensics takes its turn with the cardboard coffin, identifying and lifting several unknown fingerprints. These lifts are run through aphis, the Automatic Fingerprint identification system, but fail to return a match. The prints, together with the victim's dental records, are also placed into the California Missing persons database. Two weeks later, the system returns nothing. No report of the woman gone missing. Almost as if she had never officially existed at all.

[Liz Reykop]

We were pretty amazed because this was obviously a young woman. And young women just don't disappear without somebody most of the time becoming worried about them and reporting them missing. By some means or another, they have nothing but a cardboard box and a body. You're just stumped. It's just because that's the basis of the investigation. Who is this person? Who is this person and why is she dead?

[Marissa Pinson]

In Placer County, John Adams is asking himself the same questions about his corpse. Eventually, the two counties begin to talk and compare notes to see if the two crimes might be linked.

[John Adams]

It did occur to us as a possibility. We don't get that many body dumps. And so we made sure that Nevada county was aware of all the facts and circumstances of our other case and exchanged information with Nevada County Sheriff's office.

[Marissa Pinson]

In some ways, the cases are strikingly similar. A lone female murdered and then dumped in a public place. In other ways, however, the killings are quite different. In the first case, the body was burned, most likely to make identification difficult. In the second case, there was no attempt to burn the body or otherwise hide the corpse's identity. Dental charts were developed, but still no one had reported the victim missing. Authorities are unsure whether they have one killer or two. In time, both investigators, allegations go cold. Eight years later, Terry Knorr is 23 years old. At the age of 15, she left home and began to carve out a life on the fringes of society, in and out of jail on a variety of charges. To America's criminal justice system, Terry is just another run of the mill offender. As such, no one pays much attention to what she has to say, even as Terry tries to tell the story of her two older sisters and how they were murdered at the hands of their mother.

[Terry Knorr]

The police didn't believe me. Attorneys didn't believe me. Nobody believed me. They thought I was just a delusional psycho making things up.

[Marissa Pinson]

One evening, Terry sits at home watching an episode of America's Most Wanted. The number for a tip line comes on the screen. Terry picks up the phone and gives it a call.

[Terry Knorr]

I called down to him and I talked with a gal named Sherry on the phone and I was just bawling. I told her I'm at my wit's end. Nobody believes me. What do I do?

[Marissa Pinson]

The woman at the other end of the line calms Terry down and asks why she believes her mother might have killed her own children. Terri responds with the story of her childhood. In 1982, Terri Knorr is 12 years old. She lives with her mother, Teresa Knorr, her older sisters Susan and Sheila, and and her brothers William and Robert in Sacramento, California. For Terry, day to day life is filled with fear. At the sound of a footstep in the hallway and the shadow of her mother appearing at the bedroom door.

[Terry Knorr]

We pretty much walked on eggshells around my mom. We stayed away from her as much as we could. She's just a vicious person.

[Marissa Pinson]

How vicious? One day in the third grade, Terri's mom arrives for a parent teacher conference.

[Terry Knorr]

And we were all lined up just to come back in from recess and I ran up to my mom and I threw my arms around her and I gave her a big hug and I said, I love you, mom. And she said, yeah, I love you too. Well, when I got home from school that day, I got locked in a deep freezer because my mother said that I had been telling the teacher that she was hitting on me and this and that and the other thing, and I had never said no such thing. And so my mother put me in a deep freezer and locked me in there.

[Marissa Pinson]

Being locked in the deep freezer is the least of Terry's problems. One day, a neighbor notices that Terry's clothes are a bit worn and offers the family some hand me downs. The attempt at charity drives Theresa Knorr into a frenzy.

[Terry Knorr]

She took a rope, wrapped it around my neck, threw it over a door, stripped me butt naked and proceeded to beat me within an inch of my life because she said that I was going around telling people in the neighborhood that we didn't have enough, that we didn't have anything, and that's why that lady brought those to me.

[Marissa Pinson]

Eventually, Teresa Knorr pulls her children out of school. For the most part, they are taught at home. Their lessons come from the Bible and are reinforced with something called the Board of Education.

[Terry Knorr]

Oh yeah, I remember the Board of Education. Board of Education was a board that was about, I don't know, three feet long, was about half inch thick and about an inch and a half wide, and it had board of education scrawled on it. And that's what she beat us with. If we moved, we got beat. Where she could hit most generally, she'd have somebody hold us down, somebody at our feet, somebody at our hands holding us.

[Marissa Pinson]

As the children get older, Teresa Knorr focuses her abuse on the girls, especially 16 year old Susan.

[Terry Knorr]

My mother would take four boxes of macaroni and cheese. She'd take lard, straight up shortening lard and take big old hucks of it, just hunks, put it in her bowl with her macaroni and cheese and mix it all in there and then expect my sister to eat it. And my sister, she would try to eat it, she would try. And if she got too full, my mother would force her to keep eating it. And if she threw up, she got beat. And then she got made to eat her own vomit.

[Marissa Pinson]

According to Terry, her mom begins to prostitute Susan and Sheila, keeping the money to run the household and in the process humiliating her daughters even further. The cycle of violence escalates until one afternoon when, according to Terry, her mom orders her two sons, Robert and William, to beat Susan. Mrs. Knorr then introduces a gun into the mix.

[Terry Knorr]

My mom had on this chieftain big dress and had pockets in it. And the only thing I can really rightly remember is that she pulled the damn thing out of her pocket and she shot her. And my sister gasped and slid down the door into the bathroom. There was blood all over the door frame and she fell in the bathtub and that's where she stayed.

[Marissa Pinson]

Susan Knorr lies in the bathtub, bleeding from a bullet that entered her chest and lodged in her back. Mrs. Knorr handcuffs her daughter to a soap dish and then begins to nurse her back to health.

[Terry Knorr]

My mom propped her up with pillows and for, I don't know, maybe a week or so, she didn't look like she was going to make it, but she made it and then started letting her get up out of the tub and this and that. And that was probably the longest time in that period of my life that I hadn't seen my mother hit her in time.

[Marissa Pinson]

Terri's sister recovers from the wound. The bullet seems still lodged in her back. Her mother put Susan back out on the street as a prostitute, but the 16 year old is determined to leave the house one way or another.

[Terry Knorr]

My sister said, mom, I just want to leave. I promise I won't tell anybody nothing. I just want to go. So my mom told her, okay, I'll let you go, but you got to let me take the bullet out of you.

[Marissa Pinson]

Theresa Knorr then forces her daughter to the kitchen floor, produces an X acto knife and begins to cut. This is an ad by BetterHelp. As a woman, I've seen many men in my life. Friends, partners, family members carry the weight of the world on their shoulders. There's still so much stigma around men's mental health. Society tells men to tough it out and keep their struggles hidden. But I truly believe that real strength comes from taking care of your mind and and reaching out for help when you need it. Men today face immense pressure to perform, to provide, to keep everything together. It's no wonder that 6 million men in the US experience depression every year, often without even realizing it. It's okay to struggle. Opening up and taking action isn't a sign of weakness. It's courage in its purest form. If you're a man feeling overwhelmed, please talk to someone a friend, a loved one, or a therapist. Therapy isn't just for those who've experienced major trauma. It's for anyone who wants to learn positive coping skills, set boundaries, and become the best version of themselves. I've seen how therapy can empower people to handle life's challenges and show up stronger for themselves and those around them. BetterHelp makes getting support easy with over 35,000 therapists, they're the world's largest online therapy platform, serving more than 5 million people globally. It's convenient. You can join a session at the click of a button and switch therapists anytime you and with a 4.9 out of 5 rating from over 1.7 million client reviews, you know you're in good hands. Take your mental health seriously. Visit BetterHelp today and take that first step. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with better help Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com coldcase that's better h e l p.com coldcase Cold case files is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money. When you bundle your home in auto policies, the process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. Inside a Home Teresa noor looks at her three daughters, Susan, Sheila, and the youngest, Terry. In their faces, she sees her own youth now long since passed, and envy begins to take hold.

[Terry Knorr]

I think my mother was just jealous, you know, because she was getting older, her daughters were blooming into women.

[Liz Reykop]

She.

[Terry Knorr]

She wasn't the center of attention anymore, so therefore she had to take out her competition.

[Marissa Pinson]

Susan is the first to suffer.

[Terry Knorr]

I remember her telling her, you know, if you thought you were abused before, I'm gonna show you what it really is. And from that point on, my sister was just beaten and handcuffed and force fed. It was just horrible.

[Marissa Pinson]

One afternoon, mother and daughter clash once again, this time in the place first family bathroom. According to Terry, Mrs. Norris shoots her daughter. Susan falls into the bathtub where she is handcuffed to a soap dish and left there. Somehow, Susan recovers the bullet still lodged in her back. Two years later, she again confronts her mother. This time Mrs. Nora agrees to let Susan leave the house on one condition.

[Terry Knorr]

My mom told her, okay, I'll let you go, but you gotta let me take the bullet out of you.

[Marissa Pinson]

Susan is fed whiskey and pills until she passes out on the kitchen floor. Then her mother produces an X acto knife and cuts her daughter open.

[Terry Knorr]

It seemed like a long time. Yeah, but I'm sure it really probably didn't take very long at all. I remember cutting the bullet out. I remember her taking the bullet and flushing it down the toilet. I believe is what she did with it.

[Marissa Pinson]

Susan's back is bandaged and she is left on the floor to live or die, handcuffed to the leg of the kitchen table.

[Terry Knorr]

She would just start mumbling incoherently. Her eyes and her skin had turned yellow from jaundice. And my mother said that the yellow jaundice ness and all this was the demon in my sister had finally took her body over and this and that. My mom was a pretty sick woman. She was very sick.

[Marissa Pinson]

Within a week, infection has made Susan Knorr delirious and recovery unlikely. Teresa Knorr tells her children that Susan's jaundice is the mark of the devil.

[Terry Knorr]

She decided that the only way to purge this demon that was in my sister's soul was by fire. So that's what she had decided to do. She was going to burn her body to purge the demon out of it.

[Marissa Pinson]

Late one night, According to Terri, Mrs. Knorr and her two sons, Robert and William, pull Susan off the kitchen floor, pack her into the car along with a few cans of gasoline and head into the mountains where they intend to burn Susan alive. According to Terry, she never saw her sister again. Almost a year after Susan Knorr disappeared, her name is never mentioned. And her mother's hatred is now focused on a second daughter, 20 year old Sheila.

[Terry Knorr]

My mom had a little habit of prostituting out her daughters. She said that my sister Sheila had gotten a venereal disease and that she was going, she was giving it to her via the toilet seat. And I was made to go in and handcuff her at night to the bottom of the kitchen table. The whole nine yards. Sheila was no longer permitted to use the toilet. She was no longer allowed to use the bathroom, the bathtub.

[Marissa Pinson]

Handcuffed to the kitchen table, Sheila endures daily beatings until finally they lose all effect. Then Sheila is hogtied and thrown into a closet.

[Terry Knorr]

I remember my sister sitting in there and, you know, crying, please mom, please let me out.

[Marissa Pinson]

After a few days without food or drink, Sheila Noor is near death. One afternoon, Teri's mother leaves the home and leaves 15 year old Terry alone for a few moments with her sister.

[Terry Knorr]

I went to the closet door because I figured she might like something to drink. And when I opened the door, my sister's head just fell out into my hand.

[Marissa Pinson]

Sheila Noor is alive, but barely. Before Terry can help, she hears her mother returning to the house. Terry pushes her sister back into the closet. A few days later, Sheila becomes her mother's second victim.

[Terry Knorr]

The last thing I remember hearing from my sister was her mumbling something about crawling towards the light at the top of the roof. And then about three days after that, there was a hole. Horrible, horrible smell. Horrible smell that come out of the closet.

[Marissa Pinson]

Terry's mother calls her oldest son William, who arrives back home with a large box taken from the movie theater where he works. According to Terry, Sheila's body is stuffed into the box. Meanwhile, Teresa Knorr orders Terry to clean up the closet in which her sister lived and died.

[Terry Knorr]

She didn't ask. She beat me and made me clean it. There was pieces of my sister's face in that floor. There was blood in that floor. And it was just. It was something I'll never forget. It was horrible.

[Marissa Pinson]

The closet is clean, but the smell of death remains. As does the memory of a conversation Terry had with Sheila in the days before she died.

[Terry Knorr]

I remember her telling me, you know, Susan told me that mom was gonna kill her and I didn't believe her. And she did. And she says, terry, I'm telling you, Mom's gonna kill me too. And then she's Gonna go to you now.

[Marissa Pinson]

There is only one daughter left. The youngest, Terri Knorr.

[Terry Knorr]

Oh, yeah. I knew I was next. She'd already started the beatings on me, started handcuffing me, the whole nine yards.

[Marissa Pinson]

One way or another, 15 year old Terry Knorr knows her days in mom's house are numbered. Rather than wait for the inevitable, Terry decides to force the issue and, and confronts her mother.

[Terry Knorr]

Something in me snapped, something in me just like a light turning on and I just. You're never gonna hit me again. I stood up for myself. I finally, you know, it's gotta stop.

[Marissa Pinson]

To Terri's surprise, her mother agrees to let her youngest leave the house on one condition. The closet that Sheilanor had been locked in still smells of decay and decomposition. Teresa offers Teri freedom in return for a favor. She must burn down the apartment they once called home.

[Terry Knorr]

I was to go in and spread lighter fluid all over the house. And if I did what she told me to do, I was free to leave. So I did it.

[Marissa Pinson]

After burning the apartment, Terry meets her mother at a local motel where she immediately tries to go back on their deal.

[Terry Knorr]

And that's when she put a knife to my throat and I grabbed her and I said, you're never gonna hit me again. Never. And she called my brother in there and my brother Robert said, tara, let her go. I said, she's never gonna hit me, Robert. She's not gonna do to me what she did to Susan and Sheila. He said, I understand, just let her go. And at that point, I think she knew she had to let me go because I wasn't playing with her.

[Marissa Pinson]

Terry Knorr gains her freedom. For the next five months, she lives on her own and tries to forget about her childhood. Until one afternoon when she sees her mother walking down the street.

[Terry Knorr]

I was riding with a friend in a car and we pulled over and I got out and she's my mother, you know, I know she did horrible things, but she is my mother. And so I said, hi, mom. And we got drunk together. And at that point she had that gun in her purse at my apartment. She had opened up her purse and showed me the gun and said, you can never tell anybody. And I said, I'm not going to. And that was the last time I seen my mother. Very last time.

[Marissa Pinson]

Terry Noor does not keep her vow of silence. In fact, for the better part of a decade, she tells anyone who will listen about her two sisters, her mother, and what went on inside her childhood. Because of her own criminal background and problems with Drugs and alcohol. Terri's story is given little attention until her call to America's Most Wanted. The show's tip line suggests she call authorities near her home. Terry eventually reaches out to a Nevada county sergeant named Ron Paria.

[Ron Perea]

She wasn't even sure if she had contacted the right agency or not. So I told her that, you know, your story sounds familiar. You know, it's believable. And she basically had a sigh of relief. Only because she said that nobody believes me.

[Marissa Pinson]

Terry's story reminds Paria of a case nine years cold, the body of a young female burnt beyond recognition and dumped along the side of the road in nearby Placer County. He wonders if the Placer County Jane Doe might not be Terri's older sister.

[Ron Perea]

Susan and I went and contacted their investigator. There was John Fitzgerald at the time and told him the story. And he right away knew exactly what I was talking about because, again, it was a unsolved case.

[Marissa Pinson]

A few days after Ron Perea spoke to Terry Knorr, Placer county investigator John Fitzgerald meets with her, asking Terry to repeat her story.

[Ron Perea]

Do you know where Susan is at this time?

[Terry Knorr]

She's dead.

[Ron Perea]

Do you know where Sheila is at this time?

[Susan Knorr]

She's dead.

[Ron Perea]

We talked for about an hour and a half, and she did most of the talking, telling me everything that had happened, what had happened, where it had happened, and describing different forms of child abuse that had occurred up to and including the deaths of her two sisters.

[Susan Knorr]

There was a lot of screaming. I just remember that everything was in slow motion after I heard the pop of the gun, and I watched my sister grab her chest, gasp, grab onto the door frame of the bathroom and fall into the tub. And that's where she stayed until she healed, was in that tub.

[Ron Perea]

She was talking extremely fast. Matter of fact, I didn't even have to hardly ask her any questions. I just listened and took notes.

[Marissa Pinson]

Terri's story is specific in its details, including the moment when her mother put Susan Knorr on the kitchen floor and cut the bullet out of her back.

[Susan Knorr]

I was kind of like the doctor's assistant, I guess. I got everything that she needed when she needed it, and I handed it to her.

[Ron Perea]

This was on the apartment.

[Susan Knorr]

This was in the kitchen floor of the apartment on Auburn Boulevard. My mother placed a pillow under her stomach and made her lay like this so that it was taut, her back was taut to where the bullet would poke through. And she gave her a gallon of Old Crow, and she drank about half of it. She was knocked out cold by this point, and that's when my mother cut.

[Ron Perea]

The ballet out of her, I knew I was going to have to confirm this and verify it at a later date. But just the way she was talking and describing these incidents, everything was starting to fall into place.

[Marissa Pinson]

To Fitzgerald, Terry Knorr's story sounds authentic. Unfortunately, Placer county has not preserved any tissue samples from the burnt corpse. Nothing that will establish forensically that Jane Doe is actually Susan Knorr. Instead, Fitzgerald seizes upon details pulled from the old case file as a way to validate or reject Terry's story. He begins with the autopsy report. It notes a long wound in the victim's back.

[Ron Perea]

We felt that possibly whoever committed this crime might have been poking Susan in the back and forcing her to walk to the area where she was eventually killed. And so that's the reason we thought that. That those knife wounds were there at the time.

[Marissa Pinson]

Now Fitzgerald knows better. The wound is consistent with an incision to remove a bullet lodged in the victim. Fitzgerald then pulls crime scene photos and notices diapers found near the dump site. Original investigators had speculated that a child might have been involved in the case. Fitzgerald asks Terry if she has a better explanation.

[Ron Perea]

She told me the reason for the diapers is because the mother kept Susan on the kitchen floor naked except for the diapers.

[Susan Knorr]

They had a diaper under her, okay.

[Terry Knorr]

Because she couldn't get up and walk.

[Marissa Pinson]

Now I know it's been a long time ago.

[Susan Knorr]

She had big old diapers. They were in a yellow bag. They were generic diapers.

[Marissa Pinson]

Fitzgerald then asks Terry if her sister wore any jewelry. Terry describes an antique ring and Susan's jingle bell earrings, Two items found on the Placer county corpse.

[Ron Perea]

Well, Terry was able to describe these two pieces of jewelry to me without me even asking her about them. So I felt at that time that this information was very valid.

[Marissa Pinson]

Forensics comes up with the final piece of evidence. Latent fingerprints lifted from garbage bags found near Susan Knorr's charred remains are run against members of the Knorr family.

[Ron Perea]

We were never able to match that fingerprint up to anybody until after Terry reported the crimes to us. And then we were able to match one of those fingerprints up with her brother Robert, who was in prison.

[Marissa Pinson]

John Fitzgerald believes he has identified the Placer County Jane Doe. It is Terry's sister Susan. Now, cold case detectives scour neighboring counties looking for the remains of Terry's other sister, Sheila. And they don't have to go very far. Just 10 miles to neighboring Nevada County. In a filing cabinet in Nevada county sits a cold case of murder an unidentified female, badly decomposed, stuffed into a box and found by a fisherman among the weeds of Martis Creek Lake almost 10 years ago. Cold case detectives suspect the corpse might be Terry's second sister. Sheila, like Placer County, Nevada, has not saved any tissue samples from the case. They have, however, taken pictures of the box in which the body was found. Investigators asked Terry Knorr if she remembers anything special about the box that served as her sister Sheila's coffin.

[Ron Perea]

The best evidence that we had to be able to validate what Terry was telling us about Sheila was the fact that she told us her brother William had worked at the movie theater and that he had removed a box from the movie theater. Let's go back and let's talk about the box.

[John Adams]

You said that you thought it was drink cup box.

[William Knorr]

What made you think of this drink cup box?

[Susan Knorr]

I believe it said 32 ounce cold cups on the outside of the box. I don't know what made me believe it. I read somewhere on it it said drink cup and that the one thing that's stuck in my mind all these years is that it was for drink cups for when you get your drinks.

[Terry Knorr]

At the movie, you know, at the movie theater. Right.

[Susan Knorr]

And it was the only one he could find that was large enough that she would fit in.

[Ron Perea]

And that was the same type of box that Sheila was found in. And we were able to determine that that box did come from the movie theater. Additionally, Terry told us that Sheila had her front teeth broken one time while she was being force fed by her mother. And during the autopsy, her teeth were examined, the front teeth were broken.

[Marissa Pinson]

The two pieces of evidence corroborate Terry's story and confirm for detectives that that the Nevada County Jane Doe is Sheila Knorr. Terry Knorr's story of familiar murder is holding together. Detectives issue warrants to pick up Terry's two brothers, William and Robert, both considered to be potential accomplices to murder. Cold case detectives hope interrogating one or the other might very well produce a confession.

[William Knorr]

Drop the match from ran and everything went up. You know.

[Marissa Pinson]

Homes.Com knows that when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or condo. It's about the home. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property. It's the location and neighborhood. If you have kids. It's also schools, nearby, parks and transportation options. That's why homes.com goes above and beyond to bring home shoppers the in depth information they need to find the right home. And when I say in depth. I'm talking deep. Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood, complete with a video guide. They also have details about local schools with test scores, state rankings and student to teacher ratio. They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent. So when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know all in one place. Homes.com we've done your homework.

[Teresa Knorr]

Hey, it's James Altucher. I've been an entrepreneur, investor, best selling writer, stand up comic and whatever it is I'm interested in, I get obsessed. Yes, it's led to success, but it's also led to such heartbreaking failure. I have failed more times than I can count. I wish in my life I had had people to talk to. That's why I started the James Altucher show and bring on some of the most brilliant minds in every area of life. People like Richard Branson, Sara Blakely, Mark Cuban, Danica Patrick, Gary Kasparov. And I wanted to find out exactly how they've navigated the highs, the lows and everything in between. No fluff, just raw stories and real advice. I've talked to 1500 of the most amazing people on the planet. So if you want to learn from the best and skip the same old canned interviews, we're all about helping you find your next big idea, level up your thinking, and ultimately to choose yourself. So let's do this together. Subscribe now to the James Altucher show.

[Marissa Pinson]

In 1984, the body of an unidentified female is found burnt beyond recognition and dumped alongside a road in Placer County, California. A year later, a second body, another woman, this one badly decomposed, stuffed inside a box and dumped near a lake in neighboring Nevada County. For nine years, the two cases remained cold until a woman named Terry Knorr steps forward. She tells a tale that is so gruesome it almost has to be true. About her mother, Teresa Knorr, and how she killed Terri's two older sisters. One she burned to death, the other she locked in a closet and starved. Connecting the Dots Cold case detectives believe they can put names to the their corpses and know who the killer is. Before they confront Teresa Knorr, they talk to the man they believe served as her accomplice, Teresa's son, William. On November 4, 1993, cold case detectives sit down with William Knorr and tell him they believe at least one member of his family is a killer.

[William Knorr]

What we're looking at is somebody that needs to be talked to.

[Marissa Pinson]

William claims he knows nothing about Susan Being shot, Just that she was beaten badly and very sick. When his mother decided they should take a drive with Susan into the mountains.

[William Knorr]

She was out on one side with Cherica sitting on top of her on the other side. And then I sat up in the front seat, and we started driving. Well, where are we going? Just shut up.

[Marissa Pinson]

According to William, in the early hours of the morning, he drives up Highway 80 heading toward Truckee, when Teresa Knorr tells him to pull over.

[William Knorr]

And she says, okay, get her out. So we got out of the car and laid her down. Go back and get inside the car. She goes, no, no, no. You get up, get the gas out of the truck. We got the stuff out, set it down, got the gas out. And my mom comes over, grabs the gas and starts throwing it all over the stuff. She goes, here, hold these. Give me a pack of matches. And she was just all over the place, the gasoline. Threw the gasoline all over the place. And then she started dousing Susan. Then she finished dousing everything down. And she goes, I'm gonna run back and start the car. If you want to imagine, you just drop it and run. And.

[Marissa Pinson]

A year later, William claims he, his mother, and brother Robert take a second drive. Sheila Noor is with them, already dead and shut inside a cardboard box. William stops the car on Highway 80 and begins to haul the box out of the car when a police squad pulls up.

[William Knorr]

It was snowing. I didn't notice it in the house. I was noticing it when the police pulled up. One of them came over working in our. And the other one about to run off and says, what are you doing? Oh, my. My voice had to go to the bathroom. Then we got back to the car, goes, okay, you're not allowed to be out here. You just turn back around, get back on the highway and go to where you're going and okay, turn around. Got back on the highway and continued on.

[Marissa Pinson]

A few miles down the road, William drives the car towards aboard Martis Creek Lake, where they dump Sheila's body among the weeds.

[William Knorr]

Scared my mother. You never lived with my mom, okay? She would have done what she said she was going to do if she said, if you don't help me here, I'm spoiled. I'm going to come down and kill you. He wouldn't come.

[Marissa Pinson]

Cold case detectives have enough evidence to make their case against Teresa Knorr. Now they just have to find her. Detectives track Teresa Knorr to Salt Lake City, where she has lived quietly for the past year, caring for a senior citizen.

[Ron Perea]

I contacted the lady's son in Salt Lake to have him come and care for his mother and told him that we were taking Theresa to jail and he wouldn't believe us when we explained why. And even several months afterwards when I talked with him, he still didn't believe that the lady that he had hired to care for his mother had murdered her two daughters.

[Marissa Pinson]

Theresa Knorr is transported back to California where she pleads not guilty to two counts of murder. Subsequently, she undergoes psychiatric testing in preparation for the trial.

[Terry Knorr]

Are you aware that you're charged with two counts of murder, Theresa? No. Well, I'm now telling you, I'm apparently the first to inform you that you're.

[William Knorr]

Charged with two counts of murder. What is your reaction to that display?

[Terry Knorr]

Do you know who you're charged with having murdered?

[Marissa Pinson]

No, I did not. I don't.

[Terry Knorr]

You seem awfully strange to me.

[Marissa Pinson]

Theresa Knorr is judged by the court court mentally fit to stand trial. Noor then decides to make a deal in return for a promise not to prosecute her sons, she pleads guilty to two counts of first degree murder and is sentenced to 25 years to life in prison.

[Ron Perea]

I think the reason she agreed to plead guilty because she was so much in love with her two sons, especially compared to what she had done to her daughters, that she liked her sons and she realized that her life was over. But she didn't want her sons lives to be ruined, so she wanted to bargain and get something for them so they could continue on with their lives.

[Marissa Pinson]

Terri Knorr is now married with a life to call her own. On the day she was interviewed, she paid a visit for the first time to her sister Susan's grave. One of two sisters whose identity has been restored because of the bravery of their youngest siblings. A woman who had the courage to bear witness against a killer even when that killer was her own mother.

[Terry Knorr]

I wanted my mom to pay for what she had done. I've always tried to be a pretty honest person, you know, I always face up to what I've done and I accept the consequences as they come. And she needed to do that as well. I never understood why when she lost her sister, she knew how it felt. She knew the pain she felt. I never understood why she made me go through that same pain. I never understood why her not having any family, she decided that I didn't need one either because I did. I wanted my sisters to have their names back more than anything in the world. They were somebody and they were loved and they still are.

[Marissa Pinson]

This summer, Pluto TV is exploding with thousands of free movies. Summer of cinema is here. Feel the explosive action all summer long with movies like Gladiator, Mission Impossible, Beverly Hills Cop, Good Burger and Transformers. Dark of the Moon. Bring the action with you and stream for free from all your favorite devices. Pluto TV Stream now pay Never.