Various Interviewees and Narrators (2:39)

It was a new car. Who leaves. I mean, a new car in her situation. A brand new car that was in running condition and working order at the same time. I would like to say you got to remember, all of us were very young right then and impressionable, and perhaps we didn't know everything that needed to.

Marissa Pinson (2:54)

Be known back in Franklinton, North Carolina. Harriet Simmons, seven children are anxiously waiting for some word about their mom in 1979. The siblings range in age from 9 to 22 and suspect police are not taking the disappearance seriously. Julia Jones Tharington is Harriet's daughter.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (3:16)

Remains were found. They acted as if she was a runaway mother. You know, they stereotyped. She's single, she's da, da, da, you know, and until, I mean, I actually remember talking to an investigator and them actually saying, you know, you know, the oldest one of you guys is 19 or 21, you know, and they just really basically treated us like we were a bunch of little kids crying, hey, I want my mommy. Where is she?

Marissa Pinson (3:41)

Without a body and with no prints or other usable evidence from inside the car, the investigation into Harriet Simmons disappearance quickly goes nowhere. Until 11 months later.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (3:52)

I got the call around mid morning that a passing motorist had found a skull in the woods.

Marissa Pinson (4:01)

Mike Wright is a crime scene investigator for the Buncombe County Sheriff 260 miles out of Raleigh. He heads into a patch of woods just off the Blue Ridge Parkway.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (4:12)

The skull had been moved from the location of the rest of the bones, probably by animal activity. And so we did a grid search of the surrounding area and then located articles of clothing and additional bones and evidence in the leaves.

Marissa Pinson (4:31)

Medical examiner John Butts determines the victim to be a white female between 45 and 55 years old. He notices four cuts in the victim's clothing and four nearly identical cuts in the victim's bones.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (4:45)

What we're looking at here is one of the ribs on the left side and right here above the label, you can see a little nick in the bone. So we put those together. The injuries to the bones, the injuries to the clothing, the fact that we have a relatively young individual and the conclusion would be that she's died as a result of being being stabbed.

Marissa Pinson (5:07)

Within a week, state investigators provide dental records on a missing woman. Dr. Butts compares the records to the Jane Doe and determines that she is Harriet Simmons. A phone call is made to Harriet's children back in Franklinton.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (5:22)

Of course it's always a shadow hanging over your head. Again, we were so relieved that she was found and we were able to bury her. But of course you'll want someone to be caught for it.

Marissa Pinson (5:33)

The discovery of a body moves Simmons case from a disappearance to an unsolved homicide. The result, however, is the same. No suspects and no leads in the investigation. Meanwhile, a second body turns up 18 miles from the Blue Ridge Parkway in Asheville, North Carolina.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (5:52)

I was at home and it was around 4 o' clock in the morning and the dispatcher called and said that a body had been located.

Marissa Pinson (6:00)

As sunrise creeps up the back of the Smoky Mountains, crime scene investigator Mike Wright takes another call for another body, this time on the banks of the French Broad River.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (6:12)

And she had been stabbed to the chest. And a local resident here had heard her call for help. When she had crawled up out of the water and he had attempted to give cpr.

Marissa Pinson (6:26)

The neighbor tells police that the girl died in his arms.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (6:30)

In this case, we had victims that were dead.

Marissa Pinson (6:33)

Dave Bussard works the scene as an investigator for the Sheriff's Department.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (6:38)

She told him that she had been stabbed and thrown in the river and left for dead. And he did have somewhat of a conversation with her while he was waiting for the ambulance to arrive.

Marissa Pinson (6:48)

The victim carries no ID and has separate multiple stab wounds. As investigators work the scene, a second call comes in about a car found eight miles upstream.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (7:00)

City police officers initially found the car. They had been contacted by a Southern Railway dispatcher. The train crew had seen the car while the train was crossing this trestle here. And the vehicle was in the river about 20ft off the shore upriver from the bridge. And the car was partially submerged about 20ft off the bank.

Marissa Pinson (7:22)

Police wonder if the vehicle is related to the murder. Downstream, they track the license plate to a local family and a woman named Margaret McConnell.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (7:31)

They said that they had found the car in the river and they explained what had happened. Then they asked some of the family to come downtown.

Marissa Pinson (7:41)

Margaret McConnell tells police that her 21 year old daughter Betty sue had taken the car to work earlier that evening and never came home. Two hours later, Betty Sue McConnell is ID'd as the murder victim.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (7:54)

I can't explain how we felt, how, you know, it's the most terrible thing I'd ever gone through.

Marissa Pinson (8:02)

Local detectives begin working the case with the help of Micah Elliott from the State Bureau of Investigation.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (8:08)

Detective Wright and I, along with other officers, went to the McConnell residence to try to find out as much, much as we could about Betty sue and her acquaintances and that sort of thing.

Marissa Pinson (8:19)

Betty Sue McConnell worked the night shift at a donut shop frequented by railroad workers. She had Left work at 1am on the night she was killed.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (8:28)

It would have been physically possible for someone to have killed the victim at the other location, driven the car back here, pushed the car into the river here and climbed up a very small embankment following along the trestle and be back to the railroad yard where all the railroad workers would be expanding. Expected to be within a matter of minutes. There were quite a few railroad men that would come and go in the course of two or three days. Once we determined who all was there, we had to find out where they lived and try to interview them that way.

Marissa Pinson (8:57)

While a team of detectives begins eliminating suspects, police process the victim's car.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (9:03)

The car which had been in the river. Of course, the river had run through it and it had to be dried before it could be processed for evidence.

Marissa Pinson (9:10)

A forensic examination of the vehicle yields no prints and no blood, nothing in the way of a lead. After three months of legwork, detectives step away from the case. Betty Sue McConnell's case joins Harriet Simmons in the Cold Files, where both will stay for 19 years.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (9:29)

And no one could ever be as hard on me as I've been on myself. I should have done this. I could have done that. But at the time it was just I was totally freaking out.

Marissa Pinson (9:42)

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Various Interviewees and Narrators (11:08)

Try to carry on a very rich family tradition. Heritage of the storytelling In Asheville, North.

Marissa Pinson (11:16)

Carolina, Gerry Harmon is Known as the Smoky Mountain Gypsy, a keeper of the Appalachian oral history, a singer and songwriter.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (11:25)

I grew up very much around storytelling and was a storyteller myself. And the most devastating thing that ever happened to me was a story that I felt I couldn't tell. I was afraid to tell.

Marissa Pinson (11:37)

For 19 years, Harmon has held a close secret, one kept at bay by a combination of fear and alcohol.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (11:45)

I lived in a bottle for a long time. I climbed inside of a bottle and I stayed there and I didn't feel. And then the time came when that didn't work anymore. And finally it just got to the point to where it was just unbearable. I sat him down in my office and he began talking about a case from 1979.

Marissa Pinson (12:06)

As Buncombe County Sheriff's Captain Pat Hefner listens, Jerry Harmon begins to talk about a night in 1979, 19 years earlier.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (12:17)

I knew things that the police officers that the law enforcement needed to know about. I knew that I had been with someone who had committed cold blooded murder. Well, we started riding around, drinking beer early in the afternoon, probably noon, I guess, and we just rode around and drank and partied all day.

Marissa Pinson (12:41)

In August of 1979, Jerry Harmon is 19 years old in hanging out with a new friend, 22 year old Terry Hyatt. At 2:30am the two men leave a bar and get into Hyatt's truck.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (12:54)

There was a young lady pulled up on the driver's side at a traffic light and Terry made an obscene gesture towards her. And then when she turned to the left, he ran her off the road. And then he jumped out and ran up to her car and jerked the door open and yelled back at me and said, follow me. And he jumped in her car and took off.

Marissa Pinson (13:16)

Harmon follows behind Terry Hyatt, who drives a few miles and then turns down a dirt road.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (13:22)

And then he got the girl out of the car, came back to the truck, got into the truck with her, and I got away from there, you know, and it was obvious what was going on. He was raping this young lady and I was just terrified. And then when he finished, I remember he came up to me and said, you know, asked me if I was going to do anything. And I said, oh, no, no, no, no, no. Well, he got in her car and started driving up and down the road extremely fast, you know, and I remember telling her, get out of here, go, leave. And she kept saying, that's my sister's car. Can't leave my sister's car. And I said, forget your sister's Car. Just get away from here.

Marissa Pinson (14:03)

The young woman, however, does not leave. Hyatt returns, pulls her back into her car, and once again tells Harmon to follow.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (14:11)

And no one could ever be as hard on me as I've been on myself. I should have done this. I could have done that. But at the time, it was just. I was totally freaking out, and I just followed him. I couldn't comprehend what was happening. Why did I not try to do something? But still, the thought had never occurred to me that actually someone was going to die. That just didn't seem. Seemed real, you know? Then we went, and he took her car by some water.

Marissa Pinson (14:40)

Hyatt pulls the girl out of the car and begins walking towards the water.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (14:45)

And then I heard this girl screaming. I assumed he was raping her again or something. You know, I mean, that's what I figured was going on. And he came back up there. And then it dawned on me. I didn't hear the person anymore. And I said, you killed that girl, didn't you? And then he told me, yeah, he had.

Marissa Pinson (15:05)

Hyatt drives the girl's car a few miles upstream and runs it into the river.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (15:10)

I was just freaked out. And he said, you better not ever tell anybody about this. Cause you were here with me, and you'll go to prison the rest of your life, just like I will.

Marissa Pinson (15:21)

For 19 years, Harmon never said a word. Now he tells it all to Pat Hefner, including the place where the woman's car was dumped. The French Broad River.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (15:33)

That's what keyed me off, because I knew that they had recovered a body at or near the French broad river from 1979 or 1980. So I began researching the ones from 1979 and came up with the name Betty Sue McConnell.

Marissa Pinson (15:51)

Betty Sue McConnell was 21 when she was stabbed and thrown into the French Broad River. The car she was driving was also found in the river.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (15:59)

So we didn't think there would be any difficulty.

Marissa Pinson (16:03)

Pat Hefner assigns the case to Detective Ann Benjamin and Agent Tim Shook of the state's cold case team. The two begin by sitting down with Harmon.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (16:12)

You guys knocked on the door and introduced yourself. I said, oh, okay. Well. And he finally had somebody show up that was old enough to remember when this murder happened. And it was explained to him early on that whatever involvement he had, we certainly couldn't make him any promises. It finally made you cross over to where you said, I need to tell. Well, it wasn't like this particular thing happened. It had been years and years. I just really. I mean, Literally waking up in the middle of night in a cold sweat. And, and. And I could hear. I could hear the screams of that girl.

Marissa Pinson (16:51)

His statement about where it occurred, the.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (16:54)

Description of her car, the fact that it was left in a river, all those statements that he made led us to believe that he knew exactly what he was talking about.

Marissa Pinson (17:05)

Benjamin and Shook believed Harmon, but would like more in the way of corroboration. Harmon then provides detectives with a second name.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (17:13)

He had mentioned that if we really wanted to verify his story, we need to talk to Mr. Hyatt's best friend at the time, which was Lester Dean Helms.

Marissa Pinson (17:24)

Two months later, Ann Benjamin tracks Lester Helms to a nursing home. She and Tim shook head over for a chat.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (17:32)

We just wanted to see if he would corroborate what Gerry Harmon had already told us. We weren't really accusing him of anything except guilty knowledge of things that Terry Height would have done. And he said, oh, yes, yes, he killed that girl, didn't he? And at that point, Tim said, well, let's talk about it. And when we ask him to relate what he recalls, he starts talking about lady with a flat tire being abducted along the interstate. And I was taking notes and really didn't, you know, I thought, what is he talking about?

Marissa Pinson (18:08)

You know, while Helms is talking about murder, it does not appear to be the same murder Jerry Harmon shared with police. In Helms statement, Terry Hyatt raped a woman and killed her. He then dumped her body in Buncombe county some 18 miles from where Betty Sue McConnell's body was was found.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (18:27)

As we're walking out to the car, I remember turning to Tim and saying, what was that all about? And he says, I think I know. I had read the file, and it began to click. That sounds like the Harriet Simmons murder because her skeletal remains had been found in Buncombe county up near the Blue ridge Parkway.

Marissa Pinson (18:46)

Like McConnell, Harriet Simmons was abducted from her car. Like McConnell, Simmons was stabbed by multiple times.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (18:54)

It had never been associated in any way with Betty Sue McConnell's abduction and subsequent murder. And we were both quite excited. We. We knew we had some good information and some good witnesses.

Marissa Pinson (19:08)

Investigators Benjamin and Shook believe that Terry Hyatt could be responsible for at least two cold murders. Then they find a third Hyatt victim who was still very much alive.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (19:20)

He told my mother, you know, he's put a lot of bodies down there in that river.

Marissa Pinson (19:29)

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Various Interviewees and Narrators (20:21)

To tell you the truth, the file, when I first got it, was probably about this thick when I was handed it.

Marissa Pinson (20:33)

Ann Benjamin is trying to make sense of 2 murders cold for 19 years.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (20:39)

I put some tabs in here and did some color coding and tried to kind of put it into some sort of an order.

Marissa Pinson (20:48)

Two women in two separate attacks, each taken out of her car, raped and murdered. Witnesses have linked one man to each of the murders. An ex convict named Terry Alvin Hyatt.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (21:01)

When we looked up his record, we found that he had actually gone to prison in 1979. He had committed a kidnapping.

Marissa Pinson (21:09)

The kidnapping occurred just a few months after the second unsolved murder. Hyatt's kidnapped victim, Carolyn Brigman, survived the attack and is still alive. Detective Benjamin decides to talk with her.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (21:23)

Ms. Brigman was very, very fearful all these years of him. He had threatened her that he would come back and get her at the trial. She didn't have a driver's license. She didn't want anybody to track her. So I actually found her through her children.

Marissa Pinson (21:37)

Joseph and Melissa are Carolyn Brigman's son and daughter. Their mom doesn't like to talk about the kidnapping, but now her children are willing to provide the details.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (21:48)

My mom came walking through there and he had his truck parked on the side and had the hood up like he was working on this truck. And as she was walking by, she got right in front of the hood of the, you know, right beside the front of the truck. He spun around and grabbed her and put a knife to her throat and told her, do not yell and get in the truck. He told her when they crossed a bridge, I've thrown a lot of people in there.

Marissa Pinson (22:08)

My mom was trying to convince him.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (22:10)

To let her go, that she wouldn't tell anybody. When he had her in the truck. He had a large knife that he held all the time.

Marissa Pinson (22:20)

And of course, both our murder victims.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (22:22)

Were, were stabbed with a knife. After a while, he told her that he was going to do something he'd never done before and he was going.

Marissa Pinson (22:29)

To give her back her life. The details of the Brigman attack are almost identical to the two unsolved murders bolstering Benjamin's case. And if Carolyn Briggman will testify, putting a face to the woman Terri Hyatt is suspected of victimizing.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (22:45)

She was very willing to go ahead and testify in court, which we, you know, we desperately wanted, and she agreed to.

Marissa Pinson (22:54)

Brigman's testimony is the final piece the state needs. Warrants are issued and police descend on Terry Hyatt's home in Asheville.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (23:04)

He met us at the door and his father came to the door also, and we identified ourselves, produced our credentials.

Marissa Pinson (23:10)

On a fall morning in 1998, Tyler Terry Alvin Hyatt is brought in for questioning about the murders of Betty Sue McConnell and Harriet Simmons.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (23:20)

He seemed fairly willing to talk, but his father was very apprehensive and, you know, would rather we weren't there. But of course, Terry was in his 40s then and he made the decision to talk to us.

Marissa Pinson (23:31)

Under questioning, Hyatt places himself at the scene of the McConnell crime, but says he did not kill her. When asked about Harriet simply Hyatt requests a lawyer and is arrested. Assistant District Attorneys Don Gast and Rodney Hasty prepare a case for prosecution.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (23:48)

We didn't have any hardcore DNA evidence that could show that he was the person that raped them, but we had lots and lots of pieces of the puzzle that when assembled, painted a clear picture that this guy is the one that committed the, these murders.

Marissa Pinson (24:05)

The team decides to seek the death penalty. On January 6, 2000, Terry Hyatt's trial begins. Jerry Harmon, who was with Hyatt when he allegedly killed Betty Sue McConnell, takes the witness stand.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (24:19)

I knew I was finally doing what I should have done before. He'd killed an innocent woman that had a family and had done nothing to him whatsoever. No, no kind of self defense was. It was just told murder.

Marissa Pinson (24:32)

Harmon is followed by Lester Helms, eyewitness to the Simmons murder, and finally by Carolyn Brigman.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (24:39)

I have not seen more chilling testimony come from the witness stand than I did that day when all of the family members were there in the courtroom lined up hearing this for the first time. And here this woman is, brave enough to be the only one that lived. And at the time she testified, for all she knew, the jury might let him go and walk out of that courtroom.

Marissa Pinson (24:59)

On January 31, 2000, a jury finds Hyatt guilty on all counts.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (25:05)

Terry Alvin Hyatt be put to death as by law viol.

Marissa Pinson (25:11)

He is sentenced to death by lethal injection. Jeff Jones is in the court to see his mother's killer sentenced.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (25:19)

It's never easy to think about someone else dying, but it has been bitterswood. I mean, it has been a long road for us. We've all grown up with this over our shoulders. And just to know that he passes that close in front of you and this is the person that took your mother's life is a very hard thing to restrain yourself, both emotionally and verbally. You know, it's something you deal with. And we were just glad to have the moment.

Marissa Pinson (25:48)

In February of 2000, while Terry Hyatt sent hits on death row, his DNA is collected and entered into the state data bank. There it hits on yet another unsolved case, the 1987 rape and murder of a Charlotte woman named Jerryann Jones. When presented with the DNA evidence and a deal to avoid another death sentence, Terry Hyatt confesses to Charlotte authorities.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (26:13)

I was killing time, riding around, drinking, getting high, and when I spotted her, I guess I thought I wanted to have sex with her. I basically pushed her into the back of the truck before she even knew what was going on.

Marissa Pinson (26:26)

Hyatt goes on to say he raped the young woman.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (26:29)

I had to cover up my stupidity, my mistake. That's what I've done to do it. That's when you killed her. She couldn't tell anybody what you had done. She tried to run, okay, in the back of the trunk. When I grabbed her. I grabbed her and stabbed her at the same time.

Marissa Pinson (26:49)

On August 2, 2005, Hyatt pleads guilty to the murder of Jerry Jones. The Simmons and McConnell families are both in the courtroom to hear this final verdict.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (27:00)

We grieve for the other Jones family and we offer our complete support. And we're glad that he being exposed for what he is. Some days I think he should sit there and suffer, but I don't think he's doing that because I really don't think it bothers him. I may be wrong, but I really don't. So I think he should just be put to death. I really do.

Marissa Pinson (27:25)

Margaret McConnell has lived her life robbed of her daughter Betty sue, and raising Betty Sue's child, Heather, as she would her own, rich with memories of the mother Heather never knew.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (27:37)

Still, I ask her little things like.

Marissa Pinson (27:40)

Do I really sound like her? What would she have done just because everybody tells me I'm so much like.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (27:48)

Her that I ask all the time. And she is like her. She has her personality, her laugh. If she's in a different room, it's hard to tell the difference because she's a lot like her mother. This September, CBS hits are streaming free on Pluto tv. I'm coming in for this month only Stream full episodes of Matlock. I'm a lawyer like the old TV show Fire Country Elsbeth.

Marissa Pinson (28:20)

I do love a mystery.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (28:21)

NCIS origins, Watson and ghosts.

Marissa Pinson (28:25)

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Various Interviewees and Narrators (28:26)

This is the most amazing sight I've never seen. All for free. The CBS shows you love this month only on Pluto tv. Stream now. Pain Never.

Marissa Pinson (28:39)

Crime doesn't take a day off and neither does Crime House Daily. Hosted by self defense instructor and advocate for victims Katie Ring, Crime House Daily is coming to you twice every weekday. Covering the biggest crime stories as they unfold, Morning episodes give you the need to know the latest headlines, breaking developments and where things are going next. Evening episodes go deeper into the people, the evidence and the moments that matter most. The pursuit of justice never stops. And with Crime House Daily, you won't have to either follow Crime House Daily wherever you listen or catch them on YouTube so you never miss an episode. Now check out this sneak peek of Crime House Daily.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (29:21)

Foreign this is Crime House. No police line what is your emergency? Yes, I need someone to come to 34 can't 34ft of you road in Canton, Mass. There's a man passed out in the snow. I think he's dead. We need oh like you gotta get.

Marissa Pinson (29:44)

Hearing and say pee.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (29:44)

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Katie Ring (29:49)

Was she framed in an elaborate cover up involving corrupt cops? Or did she put her car in reverse in a fit of rage, hit her boyfriend and leave him for dead? This is the story of Karen Reed and why her trial captivated and divided the nation. Welcome to the very first Evidence episode of Night Watch, our nighttime segment of my new show Crime House Daily. My name is Katie Ring, but if you're here this early, you may know me as the self defense girl. If this is our first time meeting, hi, I'm Katie. I'm a true crime analyst, self defense instructor and fierce advocate for victims. If you found me for my coverage of the Karen Reid trial and asked for more true crime content, this show will be your new true crime fix every morning and night. This is Crime House Daily powered by Pave Studios. My favorite part about true crime by far is the investigation. So for this show, we wanted to lean into the investigative side of true crime. On Crime House Daily, we will be covering the cases and trials making headlines now where justice is still in motion, arrests are still being made, and where new evidence is still coming to light. This is a Night Watch episode, our evening show, that takes you even deeper into today's biggest crimes. And if you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel, Rimehouse Daily. Tonight, we're starting from the very beginning. Join me on the Crime House couch as we go. All hands on deck for Karen Reed. If there was ever a personification of the phrase running around like a chicken with its head cut off, it would have been Karen Reed. The morning of January 29, 2022, when she realized her boyfriend, John O', Keefe had never returned home after their night out. Karen had fallen asleep on the couch waiting for him.

Various Interviewees and Narrators (31:57)

But.

Katie Ring (31:57)

But when she woke up to the realization that he had never come home, she immediately knew something was wrong. Her relationship with her boyfriend, John o', Keefe was far from perfect. But she knew one thing beyond a shadow of a doubt. John would never leave his niece home alone. In fact, the night before, she tried to bait him with his fact to get him back home. There are two types of cops in this world. Those who are passionate about what they do, who want to make a real impact, and who join the force to genuinely serve their communities. And then there are those who join simply because it gives them power over others. John o' Keefe was the kind of cop who genuinely wanted to make a difference. His grandfather was a cop, and from a young age, he knew he wanted to follow in his footsteps and serve his community. John had been a Boston cop for 16 years. He was well respected on the force, and he was known as the kind of guy who just stepped up for his community and the people he loved. In fact, despite not having plans of ever being a father himself, John took legal guardianship of his niece and nephew after his sister and her husband passed away just months apart. Taking on the role of a single father, John stepped up again after he lost one of his best friends and fellow police officers to suicide. He accepted the responsibility of becoming his son's godfather, and he was even there for the birth of the child. It was selfless acts like this that led John's girlfriend, Karen Reed, to call him the patron saint of Canton. Karen and John originally met in 2004 and dated for a few weeks. But it wasn't really anything serious. More of a fleeting romance that fizzled out when Karen got a job in Ireland, and life just took them separate ways. They didn't stay in touch after they ended things, but one fateful Facebook message sent 16 years later rekindled everything. Hey, blast from the past. How's things? John sent this line to Karen in 2020, and it ended up working, and their spark reignited. Karen was also successful and very intelligent. She went to Bentley University, one of the top universities in Massachusetts. She earned both her undergrad degree and master's degree in finance. She became a financial analyst for a company called Fidelity Investments, and she taught finance at her alma mater. But like John, Karen had faced some hardships of her own. In 2005, she was diagnosed with Crohn's disease and went through 10 surgeries in 18 months. Then, seven years later, she was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. Unlike their first relationship, in 2004, their second relationship seemed like it might work out. And although Karen didn't plan on becoming a mom either, she loved John and the kids. Karen was able to work from home, and she started becoming a solid figure in their lives, watching them and cooking for them while John was working. But on January 28, 2022, when Karen, John, and a group of friends decided to go out to local bars in Canton, Massachusetts, tragedy struck once again, and nothing would ever be the same. Thank you so much for listening to the start of my new show, Crime House Daily. If you want to hear what happens next, search Crime House Daily and follow wherever you listen to podcasts or subscribe to Crime House Daily on YouTube. Thank you for your support.