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The Rifkin Murders Part 2 - Cold Case Files | Wave AI Podcast Notes

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The Rifkin Murders Part 2

Cold Case Files

Tue Feb 03 2026

Summary

Cold Case Files: The Rifkin Murders Part 2

Podcast: Cold Case Files (A&E/PodcastOne)
Aired: February 3, 2026
Host/Narrator: Marisa Pinson

Overview

This episode delves deeper into the efforts to identify the sixth and ninth victims of notorious New York serial killer Joel Rifkin, nearly three decades after his capture. Investigators Tiffany Attai and Shawn Lammons team up with TV producer Peter Rice and other experts to unravel new clues, using evolving forensic technology and unique investigative strategies. The episode explores the emotional impact of these cold cases on the families of missing women and the investigative team’s relentless pursuit of answers, highlighting both breakthroughs and frustrations in their journey.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reopening the Rifkin Victims’ Cases

In 2022, almost 30 years after Rifkin's arrest, investigators renew focus on two unidentified victims (victim number six and number nine) using new information drawn from conversations with Rifkin himself.
Tiffany Attai says, “The goal... is to hopefully find victim number six and identify her and hopefully identify victim number nine.” [00:39]

2. Joel Rifkin’s Changing Story and the Search for the Dump Site

Rifkin initially claimed to have disposed of victim six in a 55-gallon barrel in the Harlem River but later admits uncertainty about the location. [01:07, 01:31]
Attai and Lammons analyze Rifkin’s details, focusing on the Bronx River’s narrow, industrial stretches. They conduct aerial surveillance via helicopter, matching his descriptions to possible dump sites near Starlight Park.
- Attai: “Going up in the helicopter and seeing the area in the Bronx river, it pretty much matched Rifkin's description...” [02:58]
- Peter Rice: “Being able to go up in a helicopter, get an aerial view was very helpful.” [04:39]

3. Developing Trust with Rifkin

Investigator Lammons details the moral and emotional conflict of building rapport with a serial killer in hopes of uncovering critical information.
- “Am I making a deal with the devil...?” [04:17]
Regular phone calls include casual conversation and mutual updates, which humanize Rifkin enough to keep lines open.

4. DNA and Forensic Roadblocks

Attai discusses the potential of DNA from recovered earrings linked to a victim, the challenges of degraded samples, and the hope brought by a new partial profile.
- “We had a partial profile on the pair of earrings. I knew that this was a breakthrough in this case...” [06:59]
- Forensic Expert: “A partial DNA profile... only eight of those were developed.” [07:13]
The DNA can't be uploaded to CODIS but is still useful for comparison and genetic genealogy. [07:19]

5. Mapping the Crime Scene

Attai requests Rifkin draw a map of the dump site to compare his recollections with modern and historical maps.
- Attai: “I thought if he could put it down, you know, pen to paper, I could see what he's seeing...” [08:41]
After much prodding, Rifkin sends a remarkably detailed map; the coincidence of the date (Lammons’ birthday) brings up Rifkin’s penchant for significance in dates. [20:54]
Investigators analyze the map with aerial photos to narrow the focus near Starlight Park and associated industrial landmarks. [21:46]

6. Exploring Potential Victims – Family Involvement

Judith Veloz: Suspected as victim six or nine due to timing and circumstances. Investigator Attai contacts her family, including sister Sue Ona and daughter Arlis Jones, only to rule Judith out based on timeline discrepancies.
- Sue Ona: “Judith was our older sister, and she was our role model. In my eyes, she was like superwoman.” [14:56]
- Arlis Jones: “I never really felt or really thought that she was completely passed. I definitely always hoped... she’d still be alive.” [15:55]
Attai helps the family initiate a renewed missing persons search and DNA comparison. [16:43]
Marilyn Mara: Another forum-suggested possible victim, her daughter Tanya Papagianikis describes the agony of uncertainty.
- Tanya: “I think the hardest part is not knowing. It's very difficult to have someone you love just vanish.” [19:12]
- Timeline again rules out a direct link, but Attai persists in following up with Rifkin and showing him relevant photos. [20:01]

7. The Search for Victim Nine’s Remains on Hart Island

Bill Simon (retired NYPD) explains the logistical and historical difficulties of recovering bodies from Hart Island’s mass graves:
- “There are roughly over a million bodies buried on Hart Island... It is off limits to the general public. People who were poor, they couldn't afford burial. People that were unidentified and prisoners.” [24:35]
Despite organized efforts, the remains of victim nine remain unfound. The search underscores the heartbreak and the persistence required. [26:28]

8. Building Towards Face-to-Face With Rifkin

As the scheduled in-person interview with Rifkin approaches, investigators experience anxiety over his recent withdrawal from communication.
- Attai: “Peter had mentioned that Rifkin kind of went radio silent and wasn’t talking to him... we still have to go up to Dannemora for the Rifkin interview and see where it brings us.” [30:25]
- The episode concludes with the team preparing photos, DNA evidence, maps, and aerial footage—hoping to resolve key questions about the unnamed victims.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Investigator Shawn Lammons (on negotiating with Rifkin):

“Am I making a deal with the devil and speaking to Rifkin and befriending him to try to get information? Maybe, but he's the only one that has this information. I can't find these answers on my own.” [04:17]
Joel Rifkin (on his memory of the dump site):

“This creek, I've never been able to find it in anything... That whole area does turn it back north, coming left. So anywhere in here you think? Yeah, here, bent where it turns, I think there was like a freight railroad line.” [01:57, 02:32]
Investigator Tiffany Attai (on hope and frustration):

“There was always that thought in the back of my mind that it’s a long shot... But then six weeks after we submitted the pair of earrings... we had a partial profile... that DNA could help us in identifying victim six.” [06:41-06:59]
Arlis Jones (Judith’s daughter):

“I still feel the possibility that she still could be alive.” [17:58]
Bill Simon (on Hart Island):

"When you go to dig in a mass grave with bodies that have been in that grave for 30, 40 years... you're finding pine bones, mud, water. But there's always hope. You can't say that anything's finished.” [25:37]

Important Segment Timestamps

00:39-02:58: Reconstructing the victim six dump site via aerial surveys.
06:41-08:09: DNA developments and investigative genealogy efforts.
14:53-16:43: Interview with Judith Veloz’s family and elimination as a Rifkin victim.
19:08-20:38: Family of Marilyn Mara shares pain and hopes for closure.
21:46-23:08: Investigators analyze Rifkin’s hand-drawn map.
24:30-26:28: Hart Island and the challenges of exhuming mass graves for identification.
30:25-33:16: The lead-up to the highly anticipated face-to-face interview with Rifkin.
33:19-end: Reflection, anticipation, and unresolved tension as the episode closes in anticipation of Part 3.

Summary & Tone

The episode balances procedural detail with personal stories from families, investigators, and experts. It captures the relentless, sometimes morally ambiguous work of solving cold cases and the human cost borne by those waiting decades for answers. The narrative remains empathetic yet analytical, driving home the rarity and importance of breakthroughs in cold cases: “Sometimes it's a long shot that'll solve a case. You can't leave any stone unturned.” [18:07]

Next Episode Tease:
The saga continues as the investigators finally sit down for a pivotal interview with Joel Rifkin, hoping for crucial revelations about his victims—a critical turning point in the quest for closure for the families and justice for the unidentified women.

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Transcript

Narrator (0:00)

This program contains subject matter that may be disturbing to some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. There are over 100,000 cold cases in America. Only 1% are ever solved. This is one of those rare stories. In 2022, 29 years after the arrest of serial killer Joel Rifk, investigators Tiffany Attai and Shawn Lammons are searching for the identities of his sixth and ninth victims.

Investigator Tiffany Attai (0:39)

The goal of this investigation, looking into the new leads that Peter had got from Rifkin, is to hopefully find victim number six and identify her and hopefully identify victim number nine. Rifkin had given a description of where he dumped the barrel with victim number six.

Investigator Shawn Lammons (0:54)

When I talked to Rifkin on the phone, what he told me was that he used a 55 gallon barrel to dispose of her body in a waterway around New York that he wasn't sure of which waterway it was.

Joel Rifkin (1:07)

Now, number six, look for a creek. It couldn't be more than 15, 20 foot wide.

Investigator Tiffany Attai (1:15)

In 1993, Rifkin had told senior investigator Louder that he disposed of victim number six in a 55 gallon drum and dumped her in the Harlem River. They searched the river, but she's never been found.

Investigator Shawn Lammons (1:31)

But then he told me that that's just kind of what he thought at the time, but didn't really know it was the Harlem River.

Investigator Tiffany Attai (1:37)

The new information that Rifkin gave about the waterway where he disposed victim number six did not match the Harlem river at all. I focused in on the Bronx river because of, you know, how narrow it is. So my next steps is going up in the helicopter and seeing it, you know, live in aerial view.

Joel Rifkin (1:57)

This creek, I've never been able to find it in anything. I don't think it was more than 20, 30ft across. I went over a little bridge. I remember mostly that whole road was recycling centers and junkyards. We're up to basically Bronx Zoo now. So you want to try and go back. You don't mind? Okay.

Investigator Tiffany Attai (2:24)

Rifkin had given a description of the waterway being narrow. There was a bend in the river where he dumped the barrel.

Joel Rifkin (2:32)

It jumped out. That whole area does turn it back north, coming left. So anywhere in here you think? Yeah, here, bent where it turns, I think there was like a freight railroad line. This whole heavy industry recycling and the auto parts junkyards. And it was just one after another after another.

Narrator (11:44)

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