The Rifkin Murders Part 4

Summary

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Cold Case Files: The Rifkin Murders Part 4

Air Date: February 17, 2026
Host: Marisa Pinson

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the ongoing investigation into several of serial killer Joel Rifkin’s unidentified victims, focusing on two major storylines:

• The identification of Rifkin’s first victim, who remained nameless for decades.
• The persistent search for the remains and identities of additional victims ("Victim #6" and "Victim #9") using modern forensic technology and painstaking investigative work.

Through interviews with detectives, forensic experts, family members, and those who have corresponded with Rifkin, the episode captures the heartbreak, determination, and slow-burning hope that are hallmarks of cold case investigation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Identification of Rifkin’s First Victim: Heidi Balch

• Initial Discovery & Long Search

  • In 1989, police in New York discovered the dismembered remains of Rifkin’s first victim. Her head was found in New Jersey, her legs elsewhere—a challenging start (01:28).
  • Lieutenant Bruce Carnall recalls his decades-long effort to uncover her identity:

    “She’s someone’s daughter, someone’s sister, and some relative out there that may not have never known what happened to her… Don’t let it go. Don’t give up.” (02:23-02:47)

• Passing of the Torch & New Leads

  • In 2013, Lt. William Springer reopens the case, employing modern technology and new databases (03:00-06:15).
  • He scoured New York City arrest records, focusing on women arrested for prostitution matching Rifkin’s description. The name "Susan Spencer" stands out, with 30 arrests and a timeline aligning with the timing of the murder. A mugshot reveals a distinctive scar and mole—crucial identifiers.
  • Persistence in running aliases and cross-referencing leads to a missing persons report for "Heidi Balch," reported by her aunt. DNA comparison with her parents confirms the match.

    “She went by Susie for the longest time. At that point, we were 99% sure we had it. Now you have to prove it forensically.” (08:58)

• Validation & Impact

  • After 24 years, the victim is finally identified as Heidi Balch (10:01).

    “To identify something 24 years after it happened is pretty remarkable. For me, this is the greatest accomplishment of my career.” —Lt. William Springer (10:14)

2. Challenges of Investigating Other Unidentified Victims (Victims #6 and #9)

• Rifkin’s Reluctance

  • TV producer Peter Rice, who has communicated extensively with Rifkin, notes his hesitance to fully confirm victim identities, offering only a “probably.”

    “He wants to get close, but he’s reluctant to go all the way. And without a body and without DNA, it’s very difficult for police to conclusively say…” (10:39)

• The Search for Victim #6

  • Major Crimes Investigator Tiffany Attai picks up the hunt using DNA and genealogy, tirelessly seeking leads despite setbacks (06:15, 11:32).
  • The focus turns to Starlight Park in the Bronx. Investigators believe Rifkin dumped Victim #6, potentially Denise Griffin, in a barrel in this area based on his descriptions and old maps (14:41-18:24).
  • Historian Steven De Villo helps them narrow down possible dump sites by linking historical features with Rifkin’s recollections.
  • A major operation is launched: the NY State Police Dive Team conducts sonar and diver searches for the barrel (20:30-24:05).

• Search Outcome

  • Multiple promising sonar hits turn out to be logs or debris. As daylight wanes, hope fades.

    “Could have been buried under all this debris and silt for the last 30 years. Could have stayed on the surface and gone out to the ocean by now.” —Investigator, reflecting on possible scenarios (28:44)

  • The dive search ends without finding the barrel or remains, but police affirm their commitment:

    “I know I’m gonna be able to sleep better. And the thing, too, that I was thinking about, of the four back, all three were floating. And for some reason, this one was never found. So either it never occurred or it made its way out and it was never discovered in time.” —Investigator Attai (29:25)

3. The Role of Forensic Technology and Genetic Genealogy

• DNA testing is central to identifying remains and confirming missing persons’ identities—a theme repeated throughout as both a source of hope and frustration due to limitations (e.g., insufficient DNA from a snake bracelet for Victim #9; partial DNA from earrings for Victim #6) (25:25, 31:00).
• Investigators are beginning to use advanced genetic genealogy, and continuously seek family members willing to provide DNA to tie down uncertainties.

4. The Human Impact

• Family Voices
  • Moving interviews with family members of victims like Judith Veloz and Marilyn Mera highlight their enduring pain and hope.

    “I will never stop looking for my mother.” —Tanya Papajianikis, Marilyn Mera’s daughter (33:23) “I do believe answers are out there. I just wish someone would come forward and say what it is.” —Sue Ona, Judith Veloz’s sister (33:11)

  • Investigators align with families’ longing for closure, underscoring their mission:

    “You can never bring a victim back… But it is our duty in law enforcement to give answers to crimes. Your job as an investigator is to have that person’s voice to tell their story…” —Investigator Attai (33:46)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Persistence:

  “Don’t let it go. Don’t give up.” —Lt. Bruce Carnall to his detectives (02:47)

• On Getting Closure:

  “For me, this is the greatest accomplishment of my career. It was not only rewarding for myself, but I’m glad I could bring closure to the family.” —Lt. William Springer (10:14)

• On Rifkin’s Reluctance:

  “He knew the police knew it was her, but he didn’t go all the way to say that this is my first victim. He just said probably…” —Peter Rice (10:36)

• On Investigative Frustration and Hope:

  “Everybody wants to see the pretty. Not every case is pretty. Sometimes you think you’re going to get an answer and you don’t.” —Investigator Attai (30:10)

• On Unfinished Business:

  “Like I said, I don’t think this is the end. I think it’s just the beginning.” —Peter Rice (29:57)

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Timeline of Important Segments

• 01:25: Confirmation that Joel Rifkin is linked to multiple murders.
• 02:23-03:00: Det. Carnall describes the initial investigation and his deep frustration at not solving the victim’s identity.
• 03:09-06:15: Springer’s renewed investigation using old arrest and missing persons records.
• 06:15-10:14: Forensic reconstruction, DNA comparison, and the ultimate identification of Heidi Balch.
• 14:41-18:24: Exploration and rationale behind the chosen search area for Victim #6.
• 20:30-24:05: Dive team’s operation and false alarms in the search for the barrel.
• 28:44: Discussion of possible outcomes and the enduring mystery—has the evidence washed away or remained hidden?
• 31:00: Explanation of ongoing efforts using DNA from victim possessions and the need for potential familial matches.
• 32:54-33:46: Family testimonies and investigators’ renewed commitments to giving these victims a voice and finding closure.

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Conclusion

Despite advanced technology and decades of effort, the search for Rifkin’s remaining unidentified victims continues. The episode underscores both the challenges and rewards of cold case work—a calling marked by persistence, empathy, and faith that every story deserves an ending, and every victim deserves a name.

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If you have information about victims #6, #9, Judith Veloz, or Marilyn Mera, contact NY State Police: 631-756-3300.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Confessed mass murderer Joel Rifkin.

[A]

In 1989, serial killer Joel Rifkin murdered the first of his 17 victims. It took police over two decades to solve the mystery of her identity. Lieutenant Bruce Carnall responded to the initial call that led to the discovery of the victim's remains.

[C]

When Joel Rifkin was arrested and confessed to a number of murders, that's when I contacted New York State Police, and as soon as I spoke to the investigators, the first thing they said to me was, I think we have your man. Rifkin said the first girl he had killed was a prostitute that he picked up in New York in 89. Took her back to his mother's house, beat her across the head with an artillery shield and drug her down to the basement and dismembered her. Then he admitted dumping the legs and dumping the head in New Jersey. It fit the information that we had on this case. At that point, we had identified who actually did the murder, but we needed to identify her. She's someone's daughter, someone's sister, and some relative out there that may not have never known what happened to her. And so I felt that was my responsibility to find out who she was. I continued to work on this case up to the time I retired in 2005, but we were never able to identify her. I became angry that I didn't solve it, and I remember telling my detectives, don't let it go. Don't give up.

[A]

Keep working it in 2013, Lt. William Springer of the Hopewell Township Police Department took up the case.

[B]

Bruce was getting close to retirement. When I was a very young officer, he was very influential. I remember one thing he always taught was never give up on a case, no matter how minor or how big it is. I didn't start really looking into the case until 2013. I was newly promoted to acting lieutenant at the time. And I was wondering, now, with newer technology, newer approaches, better DNA analysis, was there a way to possibly solve this case? This is one of the primary boxes of evidence in the case. This is one of the first boxes I looked at. Contains various information from the crime scene and some of the initial reports and supplemental reports completed by Detective Bruce Carnell. We had the actual crime scene photographs, and then there was a rubber rendition that was made of what the victim would have looked like. But I didn't really have much information other than they knew she was the first victim of Joel Rifkin. They knew she was a prostitute from New York City. And Rifkin referred to the first victim, Susie. It led me to reading the book from the Mouth of a Monster by Robert Mladnich about this, and I began to gain more of an interest. It was very specific that Joel said that he picked her up between 1st and 2nd Avenue and 10th and 11th in New York City, which would be the Lower east side of Manhattan. So after reading the book and realizing that Susie was picked up somewhere in the Lower east side and determining it was the 9th Precinct, it went to the 9th Precinct to sit down with the detectives to review case files from the 1988, 1989 area to see if we can find any prostitutes that were arrested around that time that may have matched the description of our Susie. And one of the detectives was diligent, and he kept plugging our parameters in with eye colors and height and weight and hair color. And he gave us A list of 19 names that were possible matches to our victim. But we didn't have pictures. All we had was raw data. I actually thought when we left that day that it was a waste of time, but it turned out not to be a waste of time on the list. There was one that jumped out to me, and that name was Susan Spencer. We knew that Joel Rifkin referred to the first victim as Susie. The date of birth that was listed fell right into the date range of a possible date of birth or possible age of the victim. The eye color matched, the hair color matched. So I pulled out a rap sheet, and I took a look at it, it did not have a picture. But what was very telling about this rap sheet was that Susan Spencer had been arrested nearly 30 times, with her last arrest being February of 1989. And that case was never adjudicated, she never came to court, and the head was found March of 89.

[A]

Major crimes investigator Tiffany Attai is leading the cold case investigation into Rifkin's killings.

[D]

So in any investigation, you don't know where it's going to lead you. Sometimes it's a long shot that'll solve a case, but we don't stop trying to find those answers. And sometimes those answers come years and decades later. Then we saw that with the detective who investigated victim number one for the.

[C]

Third day in a row, investigators were looking for bodies, clues, trying to solve as many as 17 murders. Now that they have an apparent serial killer in custody, police say some of Rifkin's alleged victims were dismembered.

[B]

When I started looking into the case, I was the first victim of Joel Rifkin. Some of my colleagues didn't think there was any chance I was going to identify her. But after I pulled Susan Spencer's rap sheet and I took a look at it, I knew that I was onto something. But the criminal history just tells us how many arrests she had. It doesn't give specifics. So we crafted a letter to the NYPD and requested as much documentation as we could from them. Arrest reports, fingerprint cards, pictures that were taken. We only received a couple of reports, but we received one booking photograph from 1986, which turned out to be extremely helpful in this case. Susan Spencer had a very distinct scar through a right eyebrow, which you can clearly see in the arrest photograph. And she had the mole on her left side of her chin area, cheek area. It became very evident that the photograph that we had was a possible match to the victim from 1989. But we had all of these alias names. We just needed to figure out what her real name was. The goal was that we're gonna run all of the alias names and date of births on this rap sheet and see if we can find a missing persons report. And I'll never forget this, it was a Monday, and I was here late at the apartment teaching CPR to the patrol officers. And someone from the missing persons unit said, ah, you know, I'm staying late tonight, I'll run the names for you. And he called me at like 8 o' clock at night, and he's like, I found a missing persons report out of New York. And I think it's Our girl. There was a missing persons report for Heidi Balch, and it matched our criminal history for Susan Spencer. And I was fairly certain at this point that if someone reported a Heidi Balch missing, it was probably her real name. And a few hours later, on the Upper west side of Manhattan, knocking on the door of the aunt who had originally reported her missing. We sat in her apartment and we talked for a little bit. She said Heidi ran away when she was very young. At 16 years old, she had come to New York to try to pursue an acting and modeling career. And they always thought that something bad happened because they did know that she had started using drugs fairly heavily. I had the picture and I said, can you tell me if you know this girl? And I showed her the picture and she said, yes, that's my niece, that's Heidi. And right then and there, the hair on the back of my neck stood up. I said, ironically, when she got arrested here, she used the name Susan Spencer. She grabbed my arm like a little old lady would, and she just goes. She went by Susie for the longest time. At that point, we were 99% sure we had it. Now you have to prove it forensically. Heidi's parents were still alive. I got mom and Dad's DNA and they did a comparison between the DNA and the head that was found here in Opal Township. The day we actually got the DNA results. It was just one of those moments.

[A]

For years, this is all police had to go on. A forensic reconstruction of the woman's dismembered head found at the Hopewell Valley golf course in 1989. Now police have identified her as 25 year old Heidi Balch.

[B]

To identify something 24 years after it happened is pretty remarkable. For me, this is the greatest accomplishment of my career. It was not only rewarding for myself, but I'm glad I could bring closure to the family.

[A]

TV producer Peter Rice has been communicating with Rifkin about his crimes since first meeting him in 2004 while working on a documentary.

[E]

The other thing that to me is like super significant is that when that happened, Detective Springer asked a prison guard to show Rifkin a picture of Heidi Balch and ask him if this was his first victim. So they show the picture to Rifkin and said, is this your first victim? Do you recognize this victim? And he said, probably. Now the police already knew that it was definitely her and they already have genetic confirmation that it is. He knew the police knew it was her, but he didn't go all the way to say that this is my first victim. He just said probably, which is what he's saying about Denise Griffin. And that's as far as he wants to go. He doesn't want to completely close it. He wants to get close, but he's reluctant to go all the way. And without a body and without DNA, it's very difficult for police to conclusively say that Denise Griffin's victim number six.

[D]

Is he playing us? To be honest, I don't know. Rifkin is the only one who knows what his true motives are. But at the end of the day, if any of the information he gave for six and nine leads us to an identification, the motive doesn't matter. And there's a lot left to do that can lead to answers on who six is. We need to identify who those earrings belong to. Could they be Denise Griffin's? And we still have to locate where he dumped victim six. Where is she? We're going to do everything we can to get answers.

[A]

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[D]

I went back and forth a lot with Starlight park, the area where I think he dumped victim number six. I wasn't 100% sold on that being the area, but still, it checked the most boxes.

[A]

Investigator Atai meets with Senior Investigator Sean Lemmons, who has also been working the case.

[C]

How you feeling about the river area?

[D]

So I was gonna see if you were available to check the area. I know he drew the map, and I just keep going back to the same spot, even though he said no, this part on the Bronx river over here by Starlight Park. You remember, we showed him the pictures and he's like, oh, I don't remember that building. Seems like his memories just keep getting mixed up with the map Rifkin drew of the area where he dumped victim number six. There was some things that didn't fit, actually, to any area on the Bronx River. So it's like a huge puzzle to match the area, because what he was providing didn't 100% match his descriptors. If you see here, he keeps talking about that triangle.

[C]

Yep.

[D]

So there's two triangles right at that area.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And then he talks about the freight line, the railroad being across the way.

[E]

There's one right over there.

[C]

Right?

[D]

Exactly.

[B]

And then bridges, Right.

[A]

He mentioned a couple bridges.

[D]

Yeah. So that's the thing. There's a lot of Characteristics that he describes in this area. Yeah, I keep going back to that spot that, you know, hits most of the. The marks.

[E]

It's a long shot, but I have.

[D]

A feeling we're gonna end up searching there.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

I don't think I'm gonna be able to move past it if I don't. Starlight park still check the most boxes. But before I send a dive team in in the water, I wanted to make sure Starlight park was the right area for them to search. So I had reached out to a historian, Steven De Villo. He's written books on the Bronx river. And I thought it would be important to speak to him and, you know, see what knowledge he has and what he can make of the area that Rifkin was describing. Are you excited to meet Steven De Villo?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm curious what he has to say. Yeah.

[E]

Have you shown him Rifkin's map or no?

[D]

Yes.

[A]

In August 2022, investigators at Ty and Lammens meet Steven De Villo at the Bronx River.

[D]

So you've seen the map that Rifkin drew. What are your thoughts about it and your knowledge of the river in the Bronx?

[C]

I think this reach of the river.

[D]

Is the most likely location just south of Starlight Park. It seems like when I look at historical maps, there used to be like a pull off area.

[C]

Yeah, that's right. There was a small pull off area at that point.

[D]

Shoulders created by the roadway turning and then also, which kind of fits the triangle.

[C]

That's my gut feelings that this reach of the river is likely.

[D]

Well, we appreciate your help.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

The meeting with Steven De Villo was beneficial. It made me feel like, okay, I'm not missing something. It just could be that Rifkin is recalling things incorrectly because there's time that has passed since the crimes. So this wasn't here, obviously. This is newer, Right?

[C]

The bridge, all this was built up.

[D]

Yeah. But it's good to just maybe go up on top of it and we'll get a better view. So that over there, see where the boat launch ramp is?

[C]

Yes.

[D]

So that would be the first triangle. The second triangle is right over here on the right.

[C]

Trees this way, right?

[D]

Yes. Yep. You have the railroad tracks across the way. You have apartments.

[C]

Right.

[D]

And you have the recycling auto salvage yards, which have been consistent. I just feel like it checks more boxes than further cells.

[C]

No, definitely, definitely.

[D]

If Starlight park was the area where he dumped victim number six and we located the victim in a barrel, that would be a huge break in the case. And if we find her remains, we can potentially get DNA that can be used for investigative genetic genealogy. So the next step is requesting that our dive team search the Bronx river near Starlight Park.

[C]

Took me a lot of resources to coordinate. You know, we could search it, turn.

[B]

Up with nothing, but I don't know.

[D]

How I see this ending, but I know it's not over.

[E]

So they're going to send in the dive team and actually look for the barrel. And I'm still talking to Rifkin to see if I can get any more information from him.

[C]

And then back to where you dumped her.

[E]

You drew the map, but, you know, if there's any last details that you remember about it?

[C]

Well, when I pulled over, the passenger side was facing the water, driver's side was facing the road, and I just backed straight back.

[E]

I think he's given information to the best of his recollection, but, you know, there's no way to really know. Is he holding back anything or is his memory just failing?

[C]

I was gonna ask, how are things going with Tiffany's thing? I think the hope is to send.

[E]

In that dive team in the next couple weeks.

[C]

Okay. Because it's near these auto body stuff, there's a good chance the barrel caught on something and it's still there. Yeah.

[E]

Yeah, I know. Investigator Ty has been thinking about this for a long time. And finally, after doing her due diligence and investigating as much as she can, she feels that Starlight park is the location. And she's gonna send in the New York State Police dive team, which is a major deal for her. It's a big commitment. It's people's time, it's money. But I think that she feels confident now that this is the place and this is the time to go look for the barrel. It just feels like the culmination of a lot of work, and it might lead to a breakthrough.

[A]

In December 2022, Atay and Lammons meet the dive team in Starlight Park.

[C]

Do you think today is probably the last thing we could do as far.

[E]

As, you know, any sort of possibility.

[C]

As far as identifying victim six right now?

[D]

I mean, this is what we need, right? We need a body. We'll see.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

There's other things we can do, there's other things that are in the works, but if we find this, this is huge. I went back and forth a lot with requesting that our dive team search the Bronx river near Starlight Park. I knew in the back of my mind that Rifkin's memories could be mixed or if maybe he is confusing it with another time that he disposed of a woman in a barrel. But I kept telling myself, we have to do this. We had to see if victim number six was there.

[A]

Captain Christopher Kozala is leading the search.

[C]

Good morning, everybody. How we were brought here today was a direct result of the hard work of our investigative team. So at this time, I'm going to have investigator Ty brief us on where we're at and what the game plan is for today.

[D]

We're here to try and locate a victim that Joel Rifkin dumped back in 1991. Victim number six, he said he dumped her in a 55 gallon metal drum. So that's what we're looking for. This area right over here, where the river takes a turn is the focal point. See where the fence is, you could access it back then. That's kind of where I'm thinking he dropped the barrel from.

[E]

Okay.

[D]

Yep. There is a possibility that further north he might have dumped that drum. The one thing he did say, the river was narrow, so it's a little bit more narrow up in that way. So that's kind of why I think maybe going up a little bit north would help.

[A]

Sergeant Neil Case commences the search.

[C]

Our plan is going to be to start from this point on the side scan sonar and go down river. We're using our side scan sonar and sector scan sonar down and around the docks here. If there's any structure left to that barrel, we're going to pick it up. Once that target is identified as something of interest, and you put a diver on that target, and then once the diver's in, he searches that area and determines, okay, yes, this is what we are looking for, or, no, it's something different. Takes a special person to look at that sonar screen all day long and interpret the data. Kevin and Lance are probably two of our best sonar operators. Something here?

[B]

No, it should be out here.

[C]

There's a tire there. If we do find a barrel today, what we'll do is contact our investigators, remove the barrel from the water, hopefully keeping the barrel completely intact, and then just handing it over to our investigators. So it's all dark here because the bottom comes up in a hill. See, now that's interesting, Neil. Right there. Right here. Oh, yeah.

[B]

Barrel.

[C]

I mean, I don't know, but it's the right shape and it's measuring about 4ft, which is about the size of a large barrel would be. And the location's good with this little path here with him saying that he rolled it down a concrete structure. Kind of makes sense for this location to work.

[E]

When they got a hit on an image that looked like it could be a barrel, everyone's anticipation ramped up.

[C]

I think anything's possible. He's saying that this was the area some of his other victims he put in barrels and put in water. Makes sense that it could be here. Three tires, two logs, four foot by two and a half.

[E]

Five. Four and a half Five, Yeah.

[C]

Yep. The logs are what we were seeing it. Round about two and a half foot wide, four foot long. That matches up with the image we had. So not the barrel? Nope. All right, Good job.

[E]

It turned out it was a big log about the same size as a barrel. That was obviously a little disappointing.

[C]

There's a tire right there, and this is all bridge structure.

[E]

So we were excited about the possibility that they could have found the barrel. And when they didn't, it was kind of like back to business. Let's see what else they can find.

[D]

There you go.

[E]

About an hour after the diver went in the first time, the sector sonar scan from the dock, they got a hit on something that kind of looked like a barrel, too, on their sonar.

[D]

We had the sector scan in earlier, and there was an object over here.

[E]

Both of these places were kind of right where the barrel should have been, if this is the right area. So expectations were definitely high. But both times when the diver came up, it turned out that it wasn't the barrel.

[C]

And you found that perpendicular rock.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So that's, like, on the side over there. I did find it.

[E]

Towards the end of the day, there was one more spot that investigator Atai wanted the team to check out. A little bit further upriver, the river was a little bit more narrow, like Rifkin had described.

[C]

Are we going to be able to get over that dam? We're going to be fighting daylight. Yeah, we fight in daylight, but I think if we can get over that dam, I don't think it would take us too long to an up and back.

[D]

I kept telling myself, we have to do this. We have to look.

[A]

I still remember the week before I launched my podcast. Equal parts excitement and panic. I'd be up late at night thinking, what if nobody listens? What if it all fails? That little voice of doubt was loud, but taking that leap was one of the best decisions I've ever made. And honestly, I wish I'd had Shopify back then to make things even easier. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses, from household names to new creators finding their first customers. You can build a beautiful online store with hundreds of ready to use templates that actually reflect your brand's image. And the tools are so useful AI that helps write product descriptions, tweak headlines, even perfect your photos. Plus, everything's in one place from inventory to payments to analytics. So you can finally stop juggling 10 different tabs to run your business. And if you get stuck, their award winning 247 support team has your back. Whether you're just dreaming up your first product or scaling your business to the next level, Shopify makes that jump a little less scary and a whole lot more possible. It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com cold case go to shopify.com cold case that's shopify.com cold case homes.com knows that when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or condo. It's it's about the home. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property. It's the location and neighborhood. If you have kids, it's also schools, nearby parks and transportation options. That's why homes.com goes above and beyond to bring home shoppers the in depth information they need to find the right home. And when I say in depth, I'm talking deep. Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood, complete with a video guide. They also have details about local schools with test scores, state rankings and student to teacher ratio. They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent. So when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know, all in1place.homes.com We've done your homework.

[E]

The river connects to the ocean, so it rises and falls according to the tides. And at the end of the day, the tide came up a little bit. And that's when the dive team was able to get over the dam and get up to the more narrow part on the river.

[C]

And it's getting dark. So yeah, so in other words, hurry up.

[E]

At this point, it was kind of like the last hope, last chance, at least for today.

[D]

You can't leave any stone unturned. You have to exhaust every lead. And then you could say, I've done everything I can now.

[E]

The final search upriver took about another hour. And as the sun was starting to go down, our hopes were starting to go down too, that they weren't going to find anything. And sure enough, that's what happened.

[C]

I think there's a lot of different scenarios what could have happened with this barrel if it was put here? Could have been buried under all this debris and silt for the last 30 years. Could have stayed on the surface and gone out to the ocean by now. But one thing I can say is that the area that we searched with the sonar definitely was not there.

[D]

We appreciate that. That's kind of why we had you guys here.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

Sergeant, I appreciate you guys coming down.

[C]

I thank your team for doing this for us.

[E]

Obviously, it's not the outcome that we were hoping for today, but we don't.

[C]

Have control over what the outcome is. Yeah. If the investigation leads to another body of water, let us know when we can easily come back down a different section of this body of water, whatever.

[D]

We appreciate it. I'm happy we did today. I know I'm gonna be able to sleep better. And the thing, too, that I was thinking about, of the four back, all three were floating. And for some reason, this one was never found. So either it never occurred or it made its way out and it was never discovered in time.

[E]

Well, thanks for keeping me up to date.

[D]

No, we appreciate it. We're here because, you know, you had a relationship with Rifkin. That's why we're here. So thank you. Like I said, I don't think this is the end. I think it's just the beginning.

[A]

After the search, Peter Rice speaks to Rifkin on the phone.

[E]

So they didn't find the barrel.

[C]

All right.

[E]

Said they're still going to keep looking for it.

[D]

With any investigation, there's a lot of bumps in the road. Everybody wants to see the pretty. Not every case is pretty. Sometimes you think you're going to get an answer and you don't.

[E]

I don't think myself or Tiffany lost faith. We knew we still had several other.

[A]

Good leads to go with.

[D]

We still have that partial DNA test profile on those earrings that can lead to answers on who six is. Once we can show that those earrings don't belong to any of the known victims, it's now time to reach out to the family of Denise Griffin and see if they'd be willing to give a DNA sample for comparison. If it doesn't match, the next step is investigative genetic genealogy for victim number nine. The lab wasn't able to obtain any DNA off the snake bracelet, so we can't explore the DNA option for linking it to victim number nine.

[E]

But the office of the Chief Medical examiner of New York City says they're going to keep looking for her remains, so there's hope that they will find her remains and that she can be identified that way.

[A]

Ramon Aguilar is a retired New York police detective.

[E]

I think it's great that the New York State Police has gone through the length of trying to find out who she is. Anything is possible. And they have a lot more tools at their disposal, more tools than what we had back then. And there's got to be some family.

[B]

Member or maybe one of her friends.

[E]

That if they see this bracelet, it might give them the idea, okay, I know who they're talking about. I know who they're trying to find out. We need them to come forward and make that phone ring.

[D]

The only thing left to do is wait. And if anybody recognizes the bracelet belonging to somebody they knew, they need to call us and let us know.

[E]

There's also dental records on file with the medical examiner so they can match dental records. I continue to talk to Rifkin, continue to try to get whatever information I can from him, and you never know what might pry loose from his memory. Hi, Joel. Hi. Every time I talk to you, I feel like it's an opportunity to try to test your memory banks once again. About six or nine, we're still dealing.

[C]

With, you know, ancient memories, but, yeah.

[E]

One of the things that reinforced my belief that this mission is true was talking to Judith Veloz's relatives and Marilyn Marra's daughter.

[D]

Judith Veloz and Marilyn Mara didn't fit being a Rifkin victim based on the timeline and the victims that Rifkin identified belonging to him. But we still need to get some answers.

[A]

Arlis Jones is Judith Feloz's daughter. The goal is to get some more.

[D]

Puzzle pieces so that hopefully one day.

[A]

We can finish the whole puzzle and get some real closure. Sue Ona is Judith Veloz's sister.

[D]

I do believe answers are. Are out there. I just wish someone would come forward.

[A]

And say what it is, whatever it is. Tanya Papajianikis is Marilyn Mera's daughter.

[D]

I will never stop looking for my mother.

[E]

Somebody has to know something. Somebody had to see something or hear about something, something.

[D]

I want our story to be told, and I'm definitely so grateful for Tiffany. She really does care, and she really.

[A]

Does want to help to find answers.

[D]

You can never bring a victim back. You can never undo what's done. But it is our duty in law enforcement to give answers to crimes. And your job as an investigator is to have that person's voice to tell their story, not only for the victim, but for the families of the victims. I'm honored to be able to look into this case. And this case isn't over for me. The wheels are in motion and it will happen. It might not happen in a TV show to fit that time period, but just because the camera shut down doesn't mean that the case stops.

[A]

If anyone has any information regarding victims number six and nine or Judith the Lowes and Marilyn Mara, please contact the New York State Police, 631-756-3300. Homes.com knows that when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or condo. It's about the home. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property. It's the location and neighborhood. If you have kids, it's also schools, nearby, parks and transportation options. That's why homes.com goes above and beyond to bring home shoppers the in depth information they need to find the right home. And when I say in depth, I'm talking deep. Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood, complete with a video guide. They also have details about local schools with test scores, state rankings and student to teacher ratio. They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent. So when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know all in one place. Homes.com, we've done your homework.

[D]

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[C]

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[D]

Help is always ready before, during and after your stay.

[A]

We've planned for the plot twists, so.

[D]

Support is always available because a great trip starts with peace of mind.