Grading, Breakers, and the billion-dollar collector economy

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Collector Nation

Episode: Grading, Breakers, and the Billion-Dollar Collector Economy

Date: January 9, 2026
Host: Ryan Alford
Guests: Brian Ludden, Mikey Masabe

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Overview

This episode dives deep into the rapidly evolving world of trading cards and collectibles, zeroing in on major trends like card grading, the impact of breakers, and the explosive growth of the collector economy—now easily cresting billions in monthly activity. Hosts Ryan Alford, Brian Ludden, and Mikey Masabe share stories, banter about sports, discuss market predictions, and debate the big decisions shaping the hobby in 2026. They mix live shop talk with humor, unvarnished takes, and strategies for riding the next wave in collecting, from tech disruption to hobby shop marketing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. 2026 Hobby Trends: Grading’s Staying Power

• “I think the grading thing is going to continue. Buying raw cards is kind of the equivalent of Carvana… You hope this thing shows up good. But used cars are messy. Raw cards are kind of messy too. So I think grading… I don't see that genie going back in the bottle.” — Brian ([00:04], [13:09])
• The grading phenomenon has become mainstream, fueled by institutional money's demand for certainty. The difference in card value between graded and raw remains a powerful incentive.
• Raw cards still serve an important role, especially for younger collectors and those seeking more immediate sales due to grading turnaround times.
• “If you are trying to sort of dabble in long-term investing… I think if you put it in the safe, you probably kind of want to know what you got.” — Ryan ([15:06])

2. Collector Economy: Scale and Growth

• December 2025 saw $381 million spent online on cards and collectibles—just the tip of the iceberg.
• "There's probably a billion dollars every month... If you really got down to the how, what's happening. It's one of these things, you think, or more than a billion." — Ryan ([26:00–26:23])
• Heritage Auctions reported $2.15 billion in sports collectibles sales for 2025—likely a fraction of the real total when factoring in shows, private sales, and international activity.
• eBay’s marketplace alone is moving around $5 billion a year, matching or surpassing the GDP of small countries! ([27:03])

3. Breaking, Allocation of Hits, and Marketing Impact

• The hosts debate where the rare “hits” should go: to break sessions (group online openings) or traditional hobby and retail buyers.
• “If I had to choose, I’m probably 60/40, 70/30 into the breakers—because that’s where all the content gets generated and the buzz.” — Ryan ([28:21])
• Breakers drive much of the marketing and excitement, but only make up a small fraction of overall buyers. There’s concern about over-concentration, which may discourage casual and new collectors.
• “The demand gets the break community… it’s the marketing. It’s what creates the buzz for these products.”* — Ryan ([30:06])
• “You have a pond that you’re fishing that is like 0.5% of people buy breaks. 99.5% out here, you could get them back in the hobby with one hit.” — Brian ([29:48])

4. The Role of Technology and M&A in the Hobby

• Expect increased use of technology in card shops—custom apps, digital pack openings, and store-based engagement tools.
• Significant mergers and acquisitions (M&A) are coming, as private equity and large companies look to enter the space.
• The panel foresees consolidation among grading companies and tech-driven solutions reshaping the experience.

5. Sports Banter: NFL Playoffs and Card Values

• Friendly talk about NFL playoff teams, allegiances, and the emotional “hedge” of rooting for multiple squads ([06:14–08:15]).
• Discussion turns strategic when predicting the impact of a Super Bowl win on quarterbacks’ card prices:
  • Less established QBs like Bo Nix or Drake May could see 3x or more gains.
  • Stars like Trevor Lawrence or Josh Allen might double, but those already peaking may see “just” a 1.5–2x increase. ([37:33–38:52])
• “If it’s like Trevor Lawrence or Caleb, I think you can like 2x or 3x those. If it’s Josh Allen… maybe one and a half X.” — Brian ([37:49])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Grading vs. Raw Cards:
  • “Eighteen months ago, I'd look at a card and go, ‘Oh, that's a 10.’ They all look like tens to me. You know, I say about my ex-girlfriends, at some point, they all look like tens. But now once I get them under the microscope, it's actually a bunch of sixes.” — Ryan ([15:06])
• On Market Size:
  • "That's an economy like of a medium sized country." — Ryan on eBay sales ([27:04])
• On Tech Ideas in Shops:
  • “You obviously have Arena Club, these guys doing digital pack, digital slab opening. So why wouldn’t that concept work in the store?... You came to the casino, like physically.” — Ryan ([20:24–20:49])
• On Hobby Fads:
  • On repack products: “It’s a bit of a fad… not that there’ll be none of them next year, people just migrate to different things.” — Brian ([20:12])
• On Line Waiting at Shows:
  • “People love sitting in line in this industry.” — Brian ([22:16])
• On Bears Fandom:
  • “Bear down.” — Brian ([40:21])
• On the Growth of Breaking:
  • “The buzz is generated off that break ecosystem. It's the vocal minority that gets the buzz out." — Ryan ([30:06])

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Important Timestamps

• Grading Trends, Carvana Analogy: [00:04], [13:09]
• Vacation Banter & Entrepreneur Life: [02:06–03:29]
• NFL Playoffs, Multiple Teams Allegiance: [06:14–08:15]
• Impact of Grading on Market & Investing: [14:20–15:06]
• Breakers & Hit Allocation Debate: [28:04–31:42]
• Size of the Card Economy, eBay/Heritage Data: [25:27–27:15]
• Super Bowl Impact on QB Card Prices: [37:33–39:28]
• Technology in Stores & Hobby Innovation: [20:24–22:03]

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Final Thoughts

This episode artfully captures the pulse of 2026’s collector landscape: surging monetary scale, a professionalizing approach to grading, the marketing muscle of breaking, and both skepticism and hope about the direction of innovation. Throughout, hosts blend strategic takes with genuine hobbyist enthusiasm, all while keeping things lively with personal stories, dry humor, and real-world analogies.

Essential takeaway:
Grading’s here to stay; technology and consolidation are coming fast; and while breakers drive the hype, there’s a huge untapped market in making the hobby friendlier to everyday collectors.

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Transcript

[A]

What's a trend in 2026 that either continues, starts, or dies?

[B]

I think the grading thing is going to continue. And buying raw cards is kind of the equivalent of Carvana. Man, I hope this thing shows up good. But used cars are messy. Raw cards are kind of messy too. So I think grading that trend, I don't see that genie going back in the bottom. Logan Paul, he's auctioning his ultra rare Pokemon card, the Pikachu Illustrator. And you know, Pokemon, but you're not really a Pokemon person.

[A]

No, too old. But here's the thing. I ordered a bunch of singles from all the Japanese players because at Cowboy Stadium, Japan plays there twice in the World Cup. I'm going to put my Ohtani up there for like stupid money and see if someone buys it because those guys have money when you travel for the World Cup.

[B]

Welcome to the Collector Nation podcast on the Radcast Network. From chasing grails to calling bluffs, we're going inside the hobby. Are you ready to collect? Let's get at it. Here's your host, Ryan Alford. What's up, guys? Welcome to Collector Nation here on the Collector Nation Podcast network in the lovely, beautiful Collector station in Greenville, South Carolina, always got Brian Ludden, my buddy. My partner, Mikey Masabe up in Chicago. He is at the, I don't know, the Ludx home lounge. Ludo King, The Kingdom of Ludx. That sounds right. Is that good, Brian? Kingdom of Lud X. Yeah, yeah, I.

[A]

Wish, but I'll go for it. It's manifestation.

[B]

Look, this is what you need to know about a high powered CEO. The dude's not feeling well. Running a fever yesterday. Probably still got a little bit one. And the dude is rocking it. Making decisions, cashing checks and snapping necks daily.

[A]

You can't, you know, like, you can't stop, man. Like it just doesn't stop. So you do it all day. I do it all day and it's like a sick day. Doesn't happen. It just doesn't happen. Which, which. That's what I signed up for. That's what you signed up for?

[B]

100%. We're blessed to be able to do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, man. It's crazy week. Lots gone down. It's been weird. The holidays. I mean it probably. I don't know about you in some ways already seems like a decade ago that. That was on quasi vacation. I'm using air quotes. I don't know if entrepreneurs and CEOs and founders are ever on vacation, but you were freaking on an island. Does that Feel like a lifetime ago already.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, it was like. It was unbelievable. So in Costa Rica, that's where we were, but not an island. But anyways, in the, in the isthmus.

[B]

I didn't want to. I didn't want to necessarily say. I'm like, well, I don't know if Brian wants me to. Like, not that you would necessarily care, but some people are, you know, like, where exactly the destination was.

[A]

It was awesome. Went to. Went to Manuel Antonio, my brother, has three or four places there that's freaking sick. On top of a mountain. Had eight people with us, the whole family. It was just a great time. And I definitely went. I took some time. I took probably two or three days where I just didn't plug in. So I was happy about that.

[B]

You have to do that. So not that anyone listening necessarily cares, but you have to unplug no matter what, for a couple of days, even when it's difficult. Now, would you, for our listeners and for me and Bella and anyone else, would you recommend Costa Rica?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, it's really, It's. It's really lush and there's tons of wildlife. You know, we saw monkeys and, like crazy birds. Like, it's, It's a really rough. It's like a robust Animal Planet.

[B]

Okay, Animal Planet. Okay. All right. Yeah. Me and gorillas don't get along. I don't know why.

[A]

No, these are monkeys. Like, these are small monkeys. You could probably take one.

[B]

Yeah. Saw some movie, you know, preview of the night or some monkey that starts like primate or something. I don't know if I like monkeys either. I had Curious George growing up. Are you interested in effortlessly growing your Bitcoin portfolio? I sure am. The Gemini credit card earns you Bitcoin back on every purchase. Use it like any credit card. Buy gas, lunch, or your weekly groceries, and you'll earn up to 4% back instantly in Bitcoin or one of over 50 other cryptos straight to your account. All that with no annual fee. And right now, you can grab a $200 bitcoin welcome bonus. It's the easiest way to start building your Bitcoin stack. Go to gemini.com card to learn more. Terms apply. See the link in the description for more information regarding rates and fees issued by web bank. To Qualify for the 200 crypto intro bonus, you must spend $3,000 in your first 90 days. Some exclusions to instant rewards apply. This is not investment advice and trading. Crypto involves risk. Check Gemini's website for more details on rates and Fees might really like hurt me like if I think they're mean.

[A]

Yeah. They'll just jump on your face.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. No, I've been, I've well traveled but I have not made it to Costa Rica. So I was just curious. It was on the recommendation.

[A]

Great place. Hey. I was pointing to my Bears hat. Yeah, dude, playoff Bears. Dude, I thought about you last week when the pairings came out. I was like, dude, Ryan's getting screwed. But it's also a hedge.

[B]

Yeah, it is. But man. What. It's awesome. Like excited. I mean especially, I mean the Bills have been playoff bound forever but like Jaguars one year in under new coach Trevor, rocking it. So I'm happy for them. I just wish you know, could, could my two teams not. Not and they're and everybody listening going, you can't have two teams. Okay. I'm a Clemson graduate, lifelong Clemson fan. Trevor Lawrence won the national title at Clemson. So I root for him religiously as. Because I'm a loyal fan all the way around. But admittedly my team since I lived in New York is Buffalo and Josh Allen. I never became a Panthers fan. Sorry Panthers people. I, I don't root against you but I just never rooted for you. So that would have been your third team.

[A]

You'd have to.

[B]

Maybe I can't do three. Two's all I can do. I can barely get away with that. So and then. But man, they're kind of like the two. I don't know if they're the favorites but probably the AFC favorites. I think, I think whoever wins AFC is going to have our time against the nfc. We'll get to that. But I would like to have seen a, a couple, you know, second or third, you know, the championship. But what do you do get it over lose. But I can, you know, it's like. And I think Jacksonville is going to win. I don't know why. I just think they're hot. I think Buffalo's defense is a little sketchy. Josh Allen can always be Josh Allen and put on the cape. But I think playing at home, Jacksonville might be the difference. It's a pick em game pretty much.

[A]

Yeah. Same with the Bears. Do you believe we're playing we're playing the packers again? No, we've played them three times in the last five weeks.

[B]

Yeah, they packers. If there's like trajectories going on, you got like Bears, Jaguars, few other teams up, up, up. The packers have been fading.

[A]

They've gotten crushed with injuries.

[B]

I know it's, it sucks but maybe not for The Bears.

[A]

But I'll be there. I'll be there chairing them on beer down.

[B]

Oh, I didn't get my invite. I would have, you know.

[A]

Oh, you know, it's probably in the mail.

[B]

I'll get it after the game's over. Yeah. Oh, man, I would. I haven't thought about going to Jacksonville, but just not the cars right now too much. I'm like on the finish line here with Collector station. I gotta stay focused. I need my Sunday afternoons for. I'll have the games on in here. We got four. We got a 130 inch projector screen. We got multiple TVs. All the boys and I would be in here watching the game. Yeah, I'll be yelling. I won't even know who to yell at. It's a weird. It's a weird thing. This is probably the strangest game. You know, where I am in my fandom as an adult, like equally torn between this one.

[A]

I mean, it's like picking your favorite son.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

You can't do that.

[B]

I can't. Maybe one day I have a favorite because, you know, he like helped me mow the lawn or something. But, but, but it's not. It's a short term, you know, and it's equal opportunity to please dad. So. I mean you never know who might be at the top of the list, but you don't have a favorite. It's just, you know, favoritism in the moment. But all that said, it's going to be great playoffs. Um, I feel bad. Like I hate to be the guy that hates on the people that win all the time. I don't like to be that guy because like greatness is wonderful, but to not, you know, there is a little fatigue if you're not a Chiefs fans. To not have them in it. To kind of let someone else have a shot and a little fresh blood. It could be exciting.

[A]

Yeah, I'm. I'm okay with that.

[B]

Yeah. Bears going along. Well, I mean look he. And look, you had three of those quarterbacks. Bears. Yeah. Caleb, you got Drake May, who might. I mean they're probably the top of the Heat favorite. I don't know if I agree with that, but Bo Nicks. Bo Nicks. Three of those top rookies from last year all playing well and in the playoffs and one of them could win a freaking super bowl year too.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

Hopefully.

[A]

Your studio looks cool, dude.

[B]

Got new mural in here, man. It's a. So it's a fabric mural in full transparency because it'll, you know, it's fancy, and it. It allows for changing out. You know, I'm kind of a ADD guy. You know, other than my wife and a handful of collectibles, I. I really have no attachment and, like, to change things a lot, I've moved, like, 12 times, not because I had to. And so I. I needed something I can change out when I need to, so. But it's cool. Got a little, like, your station graffiti going on. Got a Air Jordan shoe on the wall. It added some. A pop of color, as my wife would say.

[A]

Yeah, it's good color. I like it.

[B]

Yeah, man. It's rocking and rolling. Hey, look, we are made. This thing's coming to life. It's like living and breathing, you know, like, breathe in, breathe out. I'm feeling good about it.

[A]

Yeah. And that's the same thing with the card shop down in Dallas.

[B]

Oh, dude, I watched the video, man. I know. I. Look, I told you, like, I. I did Verizon activate. I've been in big places and watched active and activated brands. Dude, that place is huge.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's. It's a lot. Everything's bigger in Texas.

[B]

I know. It's awesome, though. Look, I don't know who was doing the video. I love the fact that he walked out that side door or whatever it was up there. And there's the stadium, like, you know, 25ft away to the bleachers or whatever. Seats.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's a unique, unique place. It's gonna be cool. Um, we got some pictures. We'll show you guys, but, yeah, it's. It's, you know, we're getting there. February 21st, cops rip night. That's where we're gonna be.

[B]

Dude, I'm. I can't wait. I'm booking my travel and the road on the show.

[A]

Taking the show on the road.

[B]

Yeah, we're taking the show on the road. We'll. We'll. We'll get in at least one while we're there. And of course, we'll have content that will be plugging away on all the socials between Ludx and Collector Nation, bringing you behind the scenes of RIP Night. And I know we're going to have, I think, some V friends there maybe, and other who's who of the. Of the whole hobby.

[A]

Yeah, it should be.

[B]

Brian Ludden's gonna be there. I mean, that's all Brian offered. Brian Ryan and Brian. I'm gonna get two big, giant fat heads of our. Or if I get started somewhere, put it on there, and I Just. I'm just going to carry it around the stadium and get my cameraman to like, shoot some stuff. Like, I'll have us like bouncing around caricature.

[A]

That'd be great.

[B]

No, but what's happening in the hobby. I mean, a lot happening in football, Lots happening. I mean, you've got. Obviously the year's turning over. It's sort of the land of fanatics and tops coming. You know, like it's, it's been coming, but I think this is the year where it starts to really turn right.

[A]

Yeah. Winter's coming.

[B]

Winter, yeah. Oh, God.

[A]

But like, it's. I just want to get it over with.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Just move on. Like, let's do this thing. And unfortunately, the draft class is pretty weak. But, you know, I'm not crying for those guys at all. So. Yeah, I mean, I think the hobby, like, interesting. Like, what do you think? What's a trend in 2026 that either continues, starts or dies?

[B]

I think the grading thing is going to continue. I just think here. And here's why, a couple reasons. I think it's become mainstream finally. For good, bad. I have no opinion on, like, whether that's good, bad or different. And with all of this sort of new money, call it institutional money, whatever you want, they want to know what they're buying. And buying raw cards is kind of the equivalent of Carvana. Man, I hope this thing shows up good. You know, saying used cars showing up. And look, I owe to dealership. I started Carvana before Carvana, it wasn't called Carvana. And it operationally just blew up. Marketed really well and operationally a nightmare. But used cars are messy. Raw cars are kind of messy too. You know, what exactly am I holding here? And not everything is as it seems. So I think, I don't know the new people, all the. I just think grading that trend, I don't, I don't see that genie going back in the bottle.

[A]

No, I think I, I don't either. I mean, it. The time it goes back in the bottle is when they. They're charging, whatever. And there's just not that big of a difference between raw cars and graded cards. And if there's always gonna be that like the 10 is worth X. Yeah.

[B]

5X 10X sometimes more, depending on what.

[A]

It is, then it would do that. But also I think it gives the opportunity for the raw card market because, you know, like, my son, who he pulled a, like Stafford kaboom, right? Like, he's like, if I send it out, it gets graded. It's Three months, four months later, it's the end. Like, that's when football cards are terrible. So he went to a show and sold it. So I think it's. It helps the, the velocity of the raw card market too.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. And I. And by the way, Ryan offers not a hater of raw cards. I'm staring at about 10,000 of them. Are a lot of them stacked on cases and in cases. But you know, if you are trying to sort of dabble in long term investing, I think if you put it in the safe, you probably kind of want to know what you got. Not that raw won't still be worth money too. I just think there's some, some amount of certainty of knowing exactly what you have in hand. Because I do think it's a little. If you don't know what you're doing and you're holding a card that looks nice and for all intents and purposes, you would think. And I think there's a lot of misconception out there, myself included. Eighteen months ago, I'd look at a card and go, oh, that's a 10 and 10 to me. Exactly. They all look like tens to me. You know, I say about my ex girlfriends, at some point, they all look like tents. But you know, but now once I get them under the microscope, it's actually a bunch of sixes. You know what I'm saying, Brian? I mean, it's like, but, but in all truth, you get a. You really do what like raiders do. And you start looking at them, you know, you think you're holding a really nice card and then is a six. That's the big difference between a six and a nine. A little bit. Buddy Chris, who married a girl he met at the bar, you know, like, there's a big.

[A]

If we're talking about that. There's a big difference.

[B]

I know, but cards too, Cards, they have a scuff or something you don't see unless you get it like, okay, under a white light. And like, it's not. Yeah. Anyway, I do think grading will continue. I don't think PSA is in any. Maybe if the government does, the antitrust comes through. I don't know if that's actually gonna go anywhere. They got bigger fish to fry.

[A]

You know what this, like, this is like that game like Mary kill and.

[B]

Kiss Mary kill, kiss Mary kiss Mary.

[A]

Hug, hug, Mary kill.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

You're saying that, that you're saying the grading would be the first one, Mary.

[B]

Yes, that's correct. I think Mary will continue. I Don't. I don't think I will be. Call me surprised if, if. When we're doing this show next time, next year and we go. Grading was down 37% on the year. No, impossible. Impossible. That's a sort of a no brainer. What's going to happen with PSA and how many more companies are going to buy? I. I don't know. And we'll see. But I hope they're fine. Yeah, they can.

[A]

I'll sell it to them.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, 500 mil. Yeah. You'll take that?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, that'd be nice.

[B]

Wait till I get some shares. But yes. Yeah, the. So I think that's going to continue. I. I'll say this, that I feel very comfortable making a prediction. I feel less comfortable about specifics of like modern cards because one company holds the deck here with all the licenses and I think there'll be some great things and I think it'll be cool. But it's all speculating until some of these things start coming out and the response comes and well, what's 2026, 27 draft class look like? I don't. I don't.

[A]

Not good.

[B]

Not good. So I don't know. That's hard to predict exactly where the demand will be. But I. I hope and pray I'm going to say this to make it. I'm gonna mana. I don't believe in manifestation, but I'm gonna say it. I believe in you. Work hard, but. But I'm gonna manifest it. If there is such a thing. Technology will prevail in 2026. Like as in go up. You know, we need more tech and solutions. Right, Brian?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And it's tech. And then the other thing for me is I think we gotta be, you know, I think there's gonna be some M and A deals. I mean, obviously PSA and Beckett, but I really think this industry is at a point where a lot of people are peeking over the fence. A lot of these PE firms, a lot of these other companies that can derive business from a collector. I think this year there's going to be some movement in M and A. The one thing I'm not super confident about, and they've crushed it. So I'm not that guy crying and knocking people down because the people did it. Crushed it. But it's the repacking.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think the grading gets a little. The grading backlog impacts their business and then all it takes is a gambling thing to be like, do you're out. So I think that's probably something that, that, you know, doesn't work.

[B]

Fad. A bit of a fad.

[A]

Yeah. And the fads here, like when I say it's not going to work, it's not like this time next year there'll be none of them. It's just like. I think it's just like people migrate to different things in this industry.

[B]

So I had an idea and I may or may not have like prototyped the beginning of an app. Another one last night. It's tinkering around. So you obviously have Arena Club, these guys doing digital pack, digital slab opening. So why wouldn't that concept work in the store?

[A]

It does.

[B]

I, I don't see it that often. I've seen it to trade shows and I. And maybe it's there, but I know I haven't been enough shops lately. But having your own like branded to the store, digital pack openings and that way, you know, you sort of over, you know, they get the fun. It's almost like they, they came, they truly came to the casino, you know, like physically. I don't know. Is that, is that a big bigger thing that I'm aware of or is it. I don't know.

[A]

I don't know. I think, I think that, I mean, I've seen them for sure. I. I just don't know if you can, like, they can do the probability. You'd have to like figure out the probability or like. I think what I would do is like, I would just get a bunch of five to $10 cards.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When you make your first purchase. Here, here's a, here's a mystery pack and they're going to give between five and ten dollars.

[B]

I think it's the notion, I think kind of like you said and I, I just kind of. I don't say, I refuse. I'll probably have one eventually because I just know how this goes. But a spin wheel, you know, like at the trade show. I get it. I just don't want to put the spin wheel up. So like there's got to be a digital. I could, I can build that app and on like have it on a big. I have a rolling 27 inch monitor on, on the floor already. We're just gonna put it on that thing, bro.

[A]

We are at the national and the people next to us, I think it was. There's one 30 point and they're like, I'm so fucking sick of that wheel. I'm gonna punch and. And freaking people.

[B]

People love it.

[A]

They line up for like, they line a block away for A hat you're wearing. Like they'll sit in line. People love sitting in line in this industry.

[B]

Oh, God, they love it. It makes it. I think it's like a rite of passage or it, it validates like maybe what they're doing.

[A]

Yeah. I'm not. It.

[B]

It's like waiting.

[A]

It's like waiting for a bar in Chicago. In line for a bar in Chicago. I'm like, there's in the, in the.

[B]

In the five degree weather.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With no coat on.

[A]

Don't have a line.

[B]

Dude. I have been in that line in Chicago when I was 21, man, and I didn't have to close proper clothes for that Chicago wind. I've never. I don't get cold. I mean, I'm in shorts. We're at 75 degrees in Greenville today and I guess we're in Easley now. But the. I got shorts on, man.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

It's like, it's unbelievable, but dang. But 25 degrees, man. I didn't have. I had like a J. A standard jacket on. Wet. Wind blew through to my bones. I don't. I still think I have like arthritis. Like Chicago wind arthritis in my bones.

[A]

Blood circulation issues.

[B]

But no, man, I don't. They do love eating in some lines. I did actually hire some people on the grand opening night and, you know, pay them to just act like they're waiting in line. That'll bring more people.

[A]

It does especially.

[B]

I'm kidding about that, by the way. If anyone's listening and you don't know my dry sense of humor by now.

[A]

One, one out. Yeah, I'm, I, I bought. Did you ever do those socks to like the warm socks with electric batteries and all that?

[B]

No. My son got some for Christmas.

[A]

Do they work? I bought some for the game on Saturday night.

[B]

He says they do. I refuse. I get hot enough. I would, I would like. If I was on this podcast and I had those on right now, I'd. It'd be a ball of just sweat.

[A]

Well, you wouldn't wear. You wouldn't wear them on the show.

[B]

But I'm saying even in the cold, other than Chicago cold. Chicago cold is the only time I might wear them.

[A]

Yeah, you guys gotta get the fleece line stockings.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. So all that stuff I have to do because it makes it more enjoyable when you're there and you're not like freezing your ass off because you don't.

[B]

Think that's what I realized When I was living, I lived. I did like a six month project, so I guess technically project living. But long enough that it wasn't like a weekend. And you realize that even if it doesn't have the style that you were going for or whatever, being comfortable and warm so that it doesn't take over the fun like of whatever the moment is.

[A]

You should talk to Heather, my wife. It'll be like six inches of snow and I'm like, you're wearing heels with no socks. Doesn't care. She's like, fashion is.

[B]

That's my wife. Yeah, they'll get along swimmingly. That's. That's Nicole. Yeah, she's. But she gets cold too. But she will be rocking, you know, heels and in anything, whatever. Yeah, exactly. You know, a couple numbers that you can't ignore. 381 million spent online in December.

[A]

Online is the important part.

[B]

Online. We talked about this yesterday. If everybody listening online. So 381 million online in December. And we all know from trade nights, everything else, that's, that's probably like the equivalent of like 10 high end card trade nights or something depending on where you're at. But no, I mean there's probably a billion dollars every month. If you, if you really got down to the how. What's happening. It's one of these things, you think, or more than a billion.

[A]

You think about taking all the card shops.

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

All that money and saying this is the revenue for this month. And then you go on Facebook and you go on Instagram and you go, dude, this market, like it's massive and like this is the quantifiable one. But it's not even close. I would say that there's probably 1.5 billion a month, a quarter going in. Easy, easy.

[B]

Heritage Auctions reported 2.15 billion in sports collectible sales for 2025. That's for the whole, I mean the whole collectible space.

[A]

Right. You could, they, they scrape it and.

[B]

They find, you know, and I think that's under, you know, like it's from the same thing. I think you could probably put a 5 or 10x multiplier on it. Right?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, because there's.

[B]

What industry is still is dominated by sort of cash in hand at all these shows. Like very few, very. Five billion on eBay. What that. Right? Five billion.

[A]

That's what I heard.

[B]

That's. Just think about that for a second. Like that's an economy like of a medium sized country.

[A]

I think the GDP of Costa Rica was like less than the GDP of Chicago. Like it was like 9 billion or something.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know. It's nuts anyway. Booming business that I think we're. It's scratching the surface of big things to come. As long as Tops doesn't screw it up. The. I'm kidding. They won't. They're going to make it great. I don't know. Somehow they've changed the market from, you know, it used to be what, 50, 60 for a mega box, 25, 30 for a blaster. They've already moved the market. Those, those Tops Chrome basketball megas are 85 and the Blasters are 50. Hey, congratulations.

[A]

You know, we, we pulled some good stuff out of the Tops Chrome.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And a question for you. If you had a choice of where you put the hits in the case. Hits. Does it go into the breaker. The Breaker hobby. Does it go into the retail. What would you. What would you do?

[B]

You need to tell me who I'm. Who I'm. Am I acting as Mayan CEO president of Top or am I acting as a consumer?

[A]

You are acting as a business decision.

[B]

Hey, I'm 70. I'm. You gotta help. You gotta feed both. But I'm probably 60, 40, 70, 30 into the breakers probably because that's where all the content gets generated and the buzz. So it sort of feeds the whole thing. And maybe it's. I would like to think it didn't have to be that much and hope for 60, 40 or 55. 45. But at least today and again I don't. I'd have to really look at some data to know if that's trending up or down. It seems like it's pretty damn popular and only growing the breaking thing. And I meant it myself. It's been slower the last three months but because we get a store off the ground. But it's assuming that looks and he's got more data than me that shows like if that's a trend that's still got headroom. So there's data points that I'd want. But assuming that you're going to lean towards the breakers because that's where content really flows from brand marketing.

[A]

I selfishly I want it to be.

[B]

Want to be other way around.

[A]

Yeah, the other way.

[B]

Exactly. That's why I asked you which whose seat am I sitting in? I would have said the same thing. Is Ryan consumer. And even as Ryan store owner, I'd kind of want it to be the other way.

[A]

And even fanatics I'd be like. Or Tops. I'd be like, listen, you have a pond that you're fishing that is like 05% of the people will buy breaks. And 95, 99.5% of the people out here, you could get them back in the hobby. Like one hit.

[B]

Yeah, but the demand gets the break community, Even if it's 1% or how many people are participating. It is the marketing. It's what create the buzz for these products. Tom, who is 30 and not tech savvy and doesn't do breaks, he's still a collector and goes to the hobby shop. The reason he wants that optic is because he's heard directly or indirectly on Instagram. The buzz on how hot those packs are in the downtowns are that. That's. The buzz is generated off of that brig ecosystem. I can't. Somebody had to really show me some data to be. And I don't have data. I just know marketing and I know what I see and I hear and I know you're right. It's, it's, it's the, it's the vocal minority, you know, that gets the buzz out.

[A]

Squeaky wheel.

[B]

I mean, Tom, who gets the hit if it was all in the hobby boxes at his local card store, doesn't post it on Instagram. If a forest falls in the. If a forest. If a tree falls in the forest, nobody hears it. If Tom goes to his local hobby box at 11am on a Tuesday because that's when he's off and he hits all these numbered cards, no one gets to fucking know about it.

[A]

Yeah, you're a market guy. So I think I'd be 40, 60 to the hobby box. The retail. Not retail, but just consumer.

[B]

But not if you're. But now you. So you got to play the good guy and I had to play the bad guy. Like I like and bad. Mayhem's not a bad guy. I like Mayhem. I like him a lot, actually. But, you know, the big bad boss. I had to be the big bad boss. And you got to play Brian, the consumer, the cool guy. Oh, it's all the hobby.

[A]

Well, you know what? That's why you go second.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Whatever.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. You know what they call that? Don't do sloppy.

[A]

I'm gonna take the opposite side of what you were saying.

[B]

You can have those sloppy seconds anytime, Brian. I don't know how the. This topic all leaning towards one place, degrading and everything, but. Yeah, I don't have to like it. There's a lot of things in business that I don't necessarily like, but I didn't make the rules. So it's. But I, I think it does. I think it's the Marketing channel. So you got to keep feeding it. And what I don't want and what I am fearful of and I hear and read and all that this like 80, 90% of it is going to the breaker. You know, these loaded boxes. And then I just think people are lying, you know. So I think it's probably is slanted their direction because it is a marketing channel. But I, I like, I choose to believe. So my dad always told would always say when he's trying to be positive, even though he was his human nature wanted him to be negative. I choose to believe that it's 60, 40 and not 9010. All right, we'll see, we'll see. We got some hot products coming out final, the final say here. Optic and Prison Football hitting the shelves the next week or two. I've already placed my, my orders with my non distributor distributors.

[A]

I got, I got my tops now from the World Series.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Being delivered this week. I mean they, they've been tops. Now.

[B]

It'S tops then officially.

[A]

And they're like, and they're like about a month ago they're like hey, you can cancel. We're running behind. I'm like, no, that I've been it. I'm in it, man. I need those cards.

[B]

Tops was 20, 25 releasing today. The newest edition of Tops was. That'd be great. Like in Living Color skit or something. You know, like snl. I like in Living cover. It was a little more raunchy.

[A]

Yeah, that was good.

[B]

Jim Carrey, dude, whatever happened, it used to be funny. Uh, you got too serious. Fire Marshal Bill. I mean, can we bring Fire Marshal Bill back? Are you, do you remember?

[A]

That's good.

[B]

Jim Carrey played the game. The, the freaking fire marshal. That was a pyromaniac.

[A]

No, I don't remember that.

[B]

Anyway, go if you're listening. Do yourself a favor. Go, go to YouTube and look up Fire Marshal Bill and watch it. It's you never it so politically incorrect today, but it's very funny. The Damon Wayne Bro Brothers Tops. April, NFL licensing. We'll see where it goes. I, I, I just want to see some cool SSPs. We've talked about this. And then Logan Paul, he's auctioning his. I feel like he's auctioning something every week, so it's hard to know what's news with him. His ultra rare Pokemon card. The Pikachu illustrator. You, I know you know you, you know Ludx does Pokemon and you know Pokemon, but I don't, you're not really a Pokemon person. Not your thing?

[A]

No, I'm too old.

[B]

Yeah, you are too old. I like the art. I appreciate the artwork.

[A]

Yeah, like I was looking at them. I just don't know enough about them. And then they have all these different languages and I mean, but here's the thing. We order a bunch of Japanese Pokemon and I ordered a bunch of singles from like all the Japanese players because at Cowboy Stadium, Japan plays there twice in the World Cup. So I'm going to put my Ohtani up there for like stupid money and see if someone buys it because those guys have money. When you travel for the World cup.

[B]

Do we have our hits and we can edit this part out. Do we have. No, Zach was. Is sick this week and so they weren't able to. Okay, give them to us. I didn't know whether to go to that section. Yep. I could make some guesses. The Linux Drake, May. Caleb. I bet it's Drake, Caleb and Trevor.

[A]

How about this? What about the super bowl champion quarterback? How much are his cards worth after he wins the super bowl compared to where they are today?

[B]

Yes, that's. Let's go with that one. What were you, five minutes? Four minutes? Yeah, four minutes. That's fine. We'll finish on this. All right, Brian, as we close out, I mean, I think we're going to come back next week. We'll have our return of the winners and losers on LUDX scans with New Year's data and everything. Who's hot, who's not. It'd probably be dictated by the playoffs. So what do we think? It'd be interesting to watch the data and the scans as the playoffs could move along of what that quarterback, that end of the winning team's cards end up doing. Like, what's the true super bowl winning impact for trading cards?

[A]

I think, I think it depends who it is, right? Like if it's like Trevor Lawrence or Caleb, I think you can like 2x those or 3x those things. If it's Josh Allen, he's already kind of high. I would say, you know, maybe one and a half X. What do you think?

[B]

I think that sounds about right. I think. But you could also make the argument that Josh Allen's teetering on like super, like Mahomes territory of superstardom and he is superstar, but you know what I mean? Like, and if that's the case, then it's 2x city for him too. I, I think on, I think on paper I would agree with you. But then I kind of go down this Mahomes territory. Not because Josh Winning one Super bowl is the same thing but it's kind of getting him in that you know, stratosphere a little bit. And then think about what Stafford two time super bowl champion. If he won what then that's gonna go up. Well let's Bo Nix Drake may double. Double at least double may. I mean mace cars already high right now. Bo Nixes are probably less because he hadn't quite had the stat line that make had. I think he might triple you know just because his cards are probably lower than market average for you know, high, high playoff team.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then what about Bradford? Right? Is it Bradford? Am I saying that?

[A]

No.

[B]

Who's the Seattle's quarterback?

[A]

Oh that's. That's the guy from usc.

[B]

Why do I keep calling him Bradford?

[A]

That's like you think it's Sam Bradford. It's Sam Darnold.

[B]

Sam Darnold. Brad. See that? I'm old. Like that's my. That's how far back I'm thinking. You know I'm wanting Sam Bradford to still be playing. He played for the Rams didn't he? Yeah.

[A]

I think honestly he could 5x yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Darnold. I've. I've been looking at Darnolds and because they went down a little bit even though he the team's been winning he might be a good buy right now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Seattle's defense. I mean Seattle might win just because of their defense.

[A]

True.

[B]

So it will be interesting to see. We'll do. We'll document that as the playoffs come up. Watching the suit the the playoff team QBs that might be a data point that the team could pull as well as we go week to week like how how each playoff victory is impacting like you know the prism silver rookie of each one.

[A]

Yeah, let's do it.

[B]

And I'll. I can kind of do that myself too. I can actually pull up the old Lux app and I got most of these guys in the old digital collection so I have to watch that. Cool. Any final words, Brian? Any other calls to action?

[A]

Bear down.

[B]

Bear down. That's it. Say a prayer for me on Sunday. It's going to be fun and bad at the same time but you know, we'll see what happens. One o'. Clock. Best game of the weekend potentially. We'll see what happens. We appreciate everybody for listening. Collectibles show soon to be the collector nation.com let you know with that switch over. Go check out Ludox in the app store. L U D E X Best trading card collection keeper scanner and of course scanning those cars to get them up to ebay so you know and can sell them when and how you want to. Brian. Love you, brother. We'll see you next time on Collector Nation. Thanks for tuning in to the show. Don't forget to follow us on your favorite podcast platform and don't miss the full video version on YouTube. You can find [e-mail] or follow Ryan on Instagram. Instagram at Ryan Alford. Now get out there and collect yours.