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Collector Nation
How a Mariah Carey Demo Became a $54,000 Iconic Collectible| Alex Bruh CEO of Wax Poetics
00:42:57
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- [00:00]
A
Someone had, not us, not Arthur, had leaked part of a demo about 10 years ago. And we knew this thing was going to get some attention. And the minute we mentioned it, all the Reddit forums exploding, all the fans were like, oh, my God, this thing exists. This thing is real. I can't believe it's out there. I actually asked the artists that we're working with in January if I could mention this item. Unfortunately, I can't tell you exactly what it is, but I can tell you I think it is probably one of the most historically significant pieces of hip hop history ever that we're going to be putting up.
- [00:33]
B
Welcome to the Collector Nation podcast on the Radcast Network. From chasing grails to calling bluffs, we're going inside the hobby. Are you ready to collect? Let's get at it. Here's your host, Ryan Alford. Hello and welcome. We're always bringing you what's new and hot in the collectible space. And hey, we're trying to make it a little different. There's all kinds of stuff happening in the. Look, we are a collectibles universe. We are. Man was made to collect. I'm just. The more people I talk to and the more I know how I am, I collect shit. Look around me. This is only half of it. And I got stuff everywhere, but I love it when culture, commerce and music and everything come together. That's why we've got the co owner and CEO of Wax Poetics, Alex Brew. What's up, Alex?
- [01:26]
A
Nice to meet you, Ryan. How's it going?
- [01:28]
B
Hey, man, I'm blessed to be here. Blessed to get to talk to you and do what I love and talk to people that are, I don't know, culture having cultural impact on, you know, collectibles and music and, I don't know, I love what you're doing, man.
- [01:42]
A
Thank you. No, we're excited to be here as well and shine a little light on what we're doing in the. The cultural space for you guys, too.
- [01:49]
B
Yeah, man, it was. You started to educate me before the episode. I was. I love. You know, I had not heard of Wax Poetics. I mean, I've heard of the term waxing poetic, obviously. And so that immediately caught my attention, which, you know, someone creative naming the company, long time ago, had no idea, was 25 years old and. But I know you're helping transform it, but let's just set the table for the audience, Alex. I mean, what you're up to. Wax Poetics, past, present, future.
- [02:23]
A
Sure. I'll give you the medium Length story? I suppose so, yes. I'm Alex. I'm CEO and co founder of Wax Poetics. Right now we are a music collectibles marketplace where we run auctions of incredible music memorabilia that comes direct from verified artists, producers, DJs and collectors. But what we really do is we kind of layer in this storytelling element around everything. So we, right now we sit at the intersection of the traditional media model with this marketplace model kind of layered into it. And we're kind of aiming for that sweet spot right in the middle, which is, you know, something that I think we think has been kind of underserved and missing in a lot of the collectible space and particularly in the. In the music collecting space. Yeah. And your point, you know, you raised quite rightly. While we are a year and a half into this new part of this project, Wax Politics has actually been around for almost 25 years. It's our 25th birthday next year. Yeah. So we started in 2001. Not by me, by the original founding team. And the reason why it started was born in New York. Everyone listening to hip hop at the time, no one really kind of reporting on it credibly. And the guys were saying, hey, you know, this is a real art form, you know, and it deserves to be kind of reported on, you know, with the kind of respect that it deserves. So really it's talking about hip hop and you've got this like incredible line from, if you're listening to hip hop, you're actually listening to samples from like funk, soul, disco, jazz. And it's already this like time capsule into the past. Right. Kind of perfect for collecting. And it became super influential across artists, DJs, producers, collectors, and branched out from hip hop to all genres. And yeah, fast forward to about four or five years ago, just before COVID hit. Myself and Dave, my co founder, we took it over. We were both fans of the magazine, both big record collectors, and we're like, look, there is, there's something really important here. You know, it's a beautiful brand, it's got a great community around it of collectors that we think, you know, have kind of been maybe like underserved in the space historically. And yeah, we took it over. We didn't know exactly what we're going to do with it at the time, if I'm being completely honest. But like, there's something, there's something really important to do here in the music space. And yeah, and then how we kind of got to this point, kind of two things quite serendipitously happening at the same time, you know, we were looking at, we have a journal that people collect. We have an audience of collectors who are now in there, you know, in a phase of their life where they are actually investing more in their collecting. And, you know, we're actually like, hey, we're actually not in the publishing space, we're in the collecting space. And then at that same time, Sotheby's were doing their hip hop auction and they reached out to us and they were like, hey, would you like to be part of it and have the full run of wise Pateks in there? We're like, amazing, Like a huge, huge honor for us to be part of that. But it kind of made us step back and we're like, you know, no shade on Sotheby's. Love Sotheby's. But like, why are Sotheby's doing hip hop auctions? And what does Sotheby's know about hip hop and what Sotheby's know about music? And that's where we come from. We know this stuff and, you know, we've been part of that culture for 12 at that point, 22 years or 23 years, and it's like, let's go and do this. You know, there's something really important to be done here. Connecting that you said at the start very correctly, culture, commerce, collecting and kind of joining all those dots. So, yeah, so we've been running at that for the past year and a half. We've done items artists with everyone from Mariah Carey, which is how we originally got in contact. Rolling Stones, Beastie Boys, Bootsy Collins, Louis Vega, Arthur Baker. And yeah, it's been a really, really exciting part of the journey.
- [06:33]
B
Awesome. And I love this concept that I'm just now wrapping my head around. I think I saw it and I felt it when I was on the site. But this editorial driven collectible market, like that's cool shit. And it's, you know, it's one thing like you said. So whoever throws stuff up on auction, it's like brand disconnect number one. It's not. I mean, they have trust in the auction area, but not trust in the hip hop space and sort of credibility. And not. And not to knock their credibility. They have their credibility, what they do. And it's a really natural brand play for a historical publication that's in the hip hop and music and cultural space. To make this pivot really smart and make and as a brand and marketing guy first and a podcaster second, really makes a lot of sense.
- [07:34]
A
Thank You. No, we think so too. And you know, it was, you know, it's not an easy transition to make. No, you know, wax pressing, very pure brand. And you know, we kind of are very, and we still are acutely aware of, you know, that needs to be treated with like real respect, you know, in the music space especially. And we have an audience of, you know, very passionate and very die hard fans who love what we do, but will tell us when we're doing something wrong.
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B
So.
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A
Very conscious about making that move.
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B
Yeah, because you think journalism and public, you know, publishing and being, you know, like it's sort of in its purest sense the furthest thing from commerce usually, but so that's a very difficult pivot to make. Even if it's the right one.
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A
Exactly, exactly. Now I think there's always been, you know, a bit of, I'd say maybe unhealthy tension between culture and commerce.
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B
I agree.
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A
And you know, the real talk, you know, taking over wax politics, like we love it, but we also know that for it to survive and for it to grow, we have to build this model around it and there has to be a commercial element to do that. And that's kind of where we kind of landed with this. Again, we try and do it in the right way, but again, it almost makes work when you kind of play it forward. Like perfect sense. To your point, the whole space in collecting is built on trust and credibility. And you know, I'd hazard to say there's probably nothing that builds that trust or brings more credibility in the space than publishing magazines around stuff. You know, it's not the most, it's not the most sensible business decision ever, but it's. We do it because we love it and you know, we know it. We talk about stuff because we love it and we work with artists because we love them and want to kind of bring that connection to culture and that physicality of the items and the physicality of magazines. We still print magazines, you know, we still do two a year focused around the artists that we have that we're doing auctions with. And yeah, it is kind of really bringing that, that connection back into that music space that to your point, yeah, we feel just makes total sense.
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B
And you know, if you're listening, I don't care, you know, if you're going to, you should buy something, but I don't care if you buy something, but you need to go to the site because I'll say this, as I was kind of bouncing around, it felt like. And again, I'm an ad guy. I'm a creative guy. And so none of the thought and curation and the beauty of how you set these products up and kind of told the stories, the narrative of what you were selling. It felt very much like a journal, a professional, polished, journalistic approach to an auction listing. Like, I was thinking, this is content I'd want to read even if I wasn't going to buy this.
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A
I'm just going to say that that really means a lot. You know, it's something we work really, really hard on.
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B
It's intentional, but it does. It. It's not lost on me. It is completely. It was. I, again, I just appreciate that stuff. I was going like, wait a second, they're selling me an item here. But. But I'm learning, and I'm enthralled by the visuals, and it's all going on, and it's beautiful.
- [10:59]
A
Thank you. It's really important for us. And to your point, that word intentional was entirely correct. We're very intentional about how we show up, what the stories are that we tell, the imagery, the photography that we use, how it's presented. I was listening to one of your other podcasts earlier today. You kind of mentioned this thing that really stuck with me, you know, this idea that, you know, trying to build the space that is like, you don't want them to shop, you want them to stop. I think that was correct.
- [11:29]
B
Right.
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A
And it's similar with us.
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B
Right.
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A
You know, yes, obviously there's a transactional element that we obviously want people to come and purchase with us and collect with us, but it's more than that. You know, you can come and you can discover these stories, and, you know, you can kind of get a bit lost in there. And, you know, you go from this artist, that artist, and whether you end up buying something or not, that's cool. But you kind of want to come in and, you know, discover this thing. And, you know, it is. It's the stories. The stories that matter.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And we try and do as good a job as we can of telling those.
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B
Yeah. Well, you can get them to shop and they become a customer. When you get them to stop, you leave a mark that stays with them. And it's building brand because you can do both. This is what's lost in this environment now, and I hate it because I watch it with marketing, brand and storytelling, and all of that gets lost in trying to make the sale. You can do both, and you guys are doing it. I'll be honest. I'm building my own collectibles and trading card store in my studio, in my place. And I'll say this, I'm going to have an E Commerce development, but part of what we do, I am absolutely going to take inspiration for what it is. I have nothing to do with hip hop or anywhere in your space, but I will say the beauty and thought and the journalistic approach to the auction, though, that's not being done anywhere else. And so that was very interesting to me in a way to stand out, but really more for thinking through the value of the consumer, of what it is, and knowing your audience. So many people don't know, you know, your audience. Like, that's. That's clear. And I want you to talk about, like, how in. In making this pivot, how you get connected with these items, like, where they come from, like where. Where the stories originate from, all that stuff. Because it's kind of all. All one and the same, I would think, to a degree.
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A
Yeah, it is. I mean, look, the beauty of kind of entering into the collectible space with a brand like Wax Poetics is it just opens up doors to the right artists. Straight.
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B
You had permission. You had permission to ask.
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A
Exactly. We have permission. We have permission, you know, and people are interested and, you know, they. They respect where we've come from and they kind of trust us to do things in the right way. And that is something, you know, we also always try and do. I think what's been really interesting for us is, you know, Wax Poetics has kind of been famous for. Yes, we have Prince on our cover. You know, we've got Marvin Gaye on our cover, but we also will go and, like, explore, like, the unsung heroes, you know, the unknown scenes, and kind of really shine a lot on those. And I think what's been really interesting on this part of that journey is reaching out a lot to a lot of those artists and producers. You know, I think, again, the reason how we got connected was through the Mariah Carey take and me reaching out, saying, hey, you might be interested in this thing, Ryan, and here we are. But, you know, that is working with, you know, a producer called Arthur Baker, who is, like, super, super influential. You know, he's worked with everyone from, like, the Rolling Stones, Fleetwood Mac, and, you know, how do we do it? Well, Dave, my co founder, hey, we want to go and do this thing. He jumps on a flight, he's in Miami. He's at Arthur Baker's house for, like, three days. And like, a lot of these artists that we. That we speak to, just, they have huge vaults of these items. They just got there, right? They're just sitting around and they've got these like original reels from like Biz Markey. And hey, here's the Mariah Carey demo tape and here's the Rolling Stones recording that I did and you know, the studio layout that I had for New Order and you're just like, oh my God, there's just so many of these things. And then your point around, like, where do the stories come from? They just come out. They come out and you kind of, you know, the Mariah one blew my mind as we kind of got into it because there's like 10 different layers to that tape and the story behind it. But you know, I think what we try and do is give the stories space and tell them properly, you know, and I think that's where, you know, the Sotheby's of the world kind of miss out a little bit. There's a very transaction focused thing. And again, no shade on them. They do a great job of what they do. But I think particularly in the space that we're talking about, giving those stories space and letting artists tell their stories and shining light on those artists, that's the important thing. And using where we've been to get those artists are interested in talking to us, I would say, I think they kind of dig a bit deeper when we go there because they know what we're going to go and do with it. Yeah, so you do it justice.
- [16:36]
B
I mean like, and so they, they have to take some pride in that, I think. No different than being featured in your magazine, you know, like it's, you've built the brand, you've built the culture, the respect and you know, and that's lost today. I hate it. But it's lost today what it takes to build that trust in that brand and, and you have to have passion for it because it's, you know, it's, it's not a quick get, get rich fast road being that thoughtful. I think though it can be lucrative in a lot of other ways though, you know, and I would imagine, you know, that there's pride in all of it.
- [17:23]
A
Yeah, you know, I'd say it's, you know, your, your, your point of like it's not a quick thing, it's now I say it's a 25 year project to get that. Certainly not easy. But yeah, you know, we do see a real high scale opportunity here. Yeah, you know, we've also, you know, just closed an investment round. You know, I'd say There's not many music magazines, relatively niche music magazines out there, you know, raising money at the moment. And I think that is kind of testament to the history that we have and the vision that we have of where we want to go with this. But, yeah, the passion is an important thing and I think people kind of respond to it, and I hope they do.
- [18:03]
B
Yeah. Are you guys. Talk to me about some of the items both that have come and gone that might be interesting, like unique things, like the Mariah Carey mixtape or demo tape. Obviously that's cool. It got my attention. I don't even consider myself a fan, but as a collector, I was like, damn, that'd be cool to have. But talk to me about some things that are just cool things that you've had, things that are coming up, the types of discussions you're having. And is it truly endless? What's out there?
- [18:42]
A
That's a good question. I might start, because I think, you know, one of the things that when we start this, like, I think. I think we think a lot of people, when they think music, they think small, right? And we say that's crazy. Music is huge. Going to give a nod to my co founder, Dave here. One of his favorite phrases of, like, music being the glue of culture, you know, it sits at the intersection of all of the different touch points that you got direct line from music to, like, so sport, fashion, film, tv, gaming. And that makes it huge. But then even just within music itself, you know, we're not talking about records, we're talking about, like the photographers involved in it, like the original prints from that, you know, the test shots, the stuff that they wore in it, you know, the producers behind it, you know, the reels, the instruments, like, the actual scope of that is huge. And, you know, endless maybe, you know, it's certainly very, very significantly huge. That's for sure. In terms of some of the stuff that we've had kind of like three that come to mind, I think kind of start middle and where we are now. The first auction that we did was with Bootsy Collins, James Brown's bassist, Parliament Funkadelic. Incredible. You know, when we launched it, didn't really think we were going to get Bootsy Collins as our first artist. You know, another one has just got this incredibly rich history. And he had a James Brown fine slip, which is very well documented. So James Brown would famously fine his. His. His musicians, his session musicians, if, like, they played a note wrong, if they turned up late, if they're like, if their suit, if the tie was out of place. And it's been one of those things that's like, super, like, mythicized. And there it was. You know, we go around and he's like, yeah, I've just got one of these slips and I just signed James Brown.
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B
Yeah, yeah, you gotta old time. You gotta be all the time.
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A
Yeah, boy.
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B
Yeah, James Brown. I love some James Brown. And. But I have heard those stories that he was a perfectionist.
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A
He was. He was. And, you know, there was a lot of pressure being. Being part of his. Part of his band. A lot of people, they know about these things and, you know, not a lot of them exist anymore. So again, you have, like, here's Booty Collins for our first auction. And here's this James Brown. Fine, slipping, like, my God. Like, I've read about these things before. I've watched YouTube videos about this thing before. Like, here is one that actually exists in, like, pristine condition. That was very cool. Then, I think. Second one is part of Arthur Baker's first auction that we did. He had an invite from. A personal invite from David Mancuso to his summer solstice loft party. And that is one of those. Again, not everyone knows about that, but the people that know about that, like, that is just like such an important thing, like such a piece of history. And, you know, it's just seeing one of those in real life, it's just like, you know, it's like sports cars, right? They're tiny little cars. And just like so much history attached to one single item. And, you know, seeing how much interest people have in that, you know, for what is a fairly niche, you know, relatively niche item, you know, was pretty incredible. And then. Yeah, you mentioned the. Well, I've mentioned a few times the Mariah Carey tape. That was. That was a pretty crazy one. You know, Arthur just has this. So he. The story is Mariah, 1988, shopping her demo around, trying to get signed. The very famous part of the story, very well documented, like in her book, in her autobiography, is like a real part of the Mariah Carey law is, you know, she goes to this party, she gives a tape to Tommy Mottola. Tommy goes off, he gets in the season like a limo. Apparently. He listens to the tape, he turns around, he tries to sign her. The rest is history. What was interesting about Arthur is that you've got this other side of the story that no one knew about. So he was at the same party, he got given another tape, the same demo, a different version of it by Brenda K. Star. They had this whole thing, they Were in the studio with Mariah listening to this thing. Their mind's blown. It's like, oh, my God, she's going to be huge. He tries to sign her. Obviously Tommy gets there first, and that's it. And there's this whole other side that no one knew about. So when we put it out there, we knew this thing was going to get attention because someone had, not us, not Arthur, had leaked part of a demo about 10 years ago. And we knew this thing was going to get some attention. And we just. The minute we mentioned it, all the Reddit forums exploding, all the fans like, oh, my God, this thing exists. This thing is real. I can't believe it's out there and kind of seeing what an impact these items can have in communities that historically, wax plastics might not be so close to what we normally talk about, but it pushes us out there and it's like this much bigger scale. So that was pretty crazy to see. We ended up breaking a world record with that item last week, which is kind of cool.
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B
Can we speak to what it went for?
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A
It went for $54,000, the highest value. Thank you. It was really cool. The highest value cassette ever sold on auction by a female artist.
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B
And.
- [24:58]
A
Yeah. You asked what's coming up? I actually asked the artist that we're working with in January if I could mention this item on this. Unfortunately, I can't tell you exactly what it is, but I can tell you if you are into hip hop that you want to follow us, because I think it is probably one of the most historically significant pieces of hip hop history ever that we're going to be putting up in January.
- [25:26]
B
Wow. Circle that.
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A
It's good. So it's.
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B
We can't name the article. Can we even broach these artists?
- [25:37]
A
No, I can't. Unfortunately. I can tell you it is.
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B
Can you give.
- [25:41]
A
It involves a very early recording of one of the biggest hip hop artists in history. So it's going to be very interesting. It's going to be. Yet it's going to be breaking news.
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B
Here on the show. Alex Brew, CEO of Wax Politics, releases the. Or. Say it again, Alex. Perhaps the greatest. What? I want you to use your words. You were eloquent. Much more eloquent than I will be. The greatest release in. Say it Again.
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A
I think it's.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Probably one of. One of the most historically significant pieces of hip hop history.
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B
Wow. Breaking news here on the show. I love it, man. When's it come out?
- [26:30]
A
We're going live on around the 12th of January. Okay. So you Know we were talking before, there's no wind down to Christmas.
- [26:39]
B
Yeah, we'll have to come back, we'll do a follow up. Alex, you got to promise to come back on to do a follow up once that goes and yeah, maybe hits. How long will it run?
- [26:51]
A
We're gonna run it for a month. Okay. So yeah, we launch around the 12th of January. We're gonna.
- [26:55]
B
Everywhere you're coming back to talk about like, what ha. What went down on that piece.
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A
I'd love to. I'd love to then. Okay, well, we can just tell you exactly what it is, what you know by then.
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B
So. Yeah, it'll be fun to. Doc, that's awesome, dude. I mean, how did. Again, how did. Can you talk to how that came down, you know, at least Broad strokes.
- [27:16]
A
Yep. So that is an artist that we've, that we've known for a long time. I'd say he's been a friend. Friend of Wax Poetics for a long time. You know, we've, we've been talking just a lot about his history for a very, for a very long time. He comes to Amsterdam quite a lot as well. So, you know, we hang out whenever he comes here. And you know, his. He's a very, you know, kind of traditionally wax press, like Homeland artist. No, I would say one of the best DJs in the entire world. Just if you get a chance to go and see him, like, just go and see him. It's incredible. And you know, he's got this incredible past no one knows about or isn't that well documented. He was a very private guy and, and you know, he went to school with this artist that we are talking about. And yeah, you know, we were talking for a long time about some of the stuff that he has from his time with him. He was in the first ever group with him and you know, there's a load of like photos, there's like recordings and you know, there's. He's just always had these things, but it's always, you know, one of the things that we're very acutely aware of in what we do is a lot of these things are very personal and you know, they mean a lot to the people that they come from. So, you know, we're never about like, you know, trying to push artists to go and do this thing with us. It's like when the time is right, when you're ready, we're here, know we'll go and do it in the right way. And you know, been kind of chatting about this for a Long time. And now the time feels right and I'm kind of ready to tell the story and, you know, all the other stories that he has, which are many. And. Yeah, so that's. It's been a long time. We've been chatting and, you know, I think we're very keen to make sure we do it in. In the right way for him.
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B
I got a guess just based on what you said. I mean, I know my hip hop now. I. But I don't know, I'm not gonna say it. I'm gonna let that one live. But if it's what I think it is, I think you're right. It's anywhere in the space that I think it is unbelievable. And it's gonna be fun to watch that come to life. I mean, what a fun job. I mean, you know, like, I know it's stressful, I know like we're talking about all the sexy stuff, but it's. I know I do want to dig into some of the journals. Journal, you know, the publication and making sure number one, I get one here in Easy, South Carolina regularly. I don't know how to get on that list, Alex, but we need to get. I want the publication here. But talk to me about. You taught, you mentioned the artists that you're doing some releases for. They get featured. That makes, hey, total synergy. Makes sense twice a year. What are the release dates? What's that process look like? What. What could people expect out of that? That might be interested in the journal part of it.
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A
Yep. It's been a really interesting part of this whole journey of, like, how do we evolve? How do we evolve the Mac? You know, the real talk, you know, was like, do we evolve the Mac? You know, how does it come on this journey with us? You know, we keep coming back to this thing of, you know, collecting is irrational. We live in this irrational space. We operate in this rational space. And releasing a mag is an irrational thing. And that's why we do it. You know, we do it because we love it and it's a really important part of it. So we look at them as, I suppose, our interpretation of an auction catalog. We think it's a much more engaging version of it. You know, kind of telling, kind of going deep on some of the artists and some of the items and less here's the item and here's the story and more actual storytelling that you're going to want to pick up. You know, what we've always done. You know, you can pick up our journals in 5, 10, 25, years time and the stories are still relevant, you know. And so yeah, that's, that's our, kind of our take on it. We're doing two next year, April and tbc, but probably October, November.
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B
Does each one have the items that are coming up or they, pat, are the items that already went.
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A
It's going to be a little bit of a mix. Like if we are in time, you know, obviously we have print deadlines. So if we are in time to kind of give a bit of a, I suppose a, a teaser of what's coming up, we will. But that is, we just kind of play that one a little bit by ear, to be honest.
- [32:00]
B
Yeah.
- [32:01]
A
So yes, we've got two full mags coming and then one of the things, you know, we're in, we're kind of in this weird space because we have been around for 25 years, but we're kind of in startup mode here. You know, chatting to investor a couple of weeks ago who's kind of made this quite interesting point. It's like you're the first, you know, I speak to a lot of like tech companies and you're the first company that I've spoken to that is raising a seed round after 25 years. That's kind of cool. Which is true.
- [32:31]
B
Innovate.
- [32:33]
A
Exactly. And part of this process is testing new print formats as well. So alongside those two issues that we're putting out, we're going to be testing kind of like more quick fire zines that we might be able to put out across individual auctions that we do. And just really kind of testing and seeing like how that works and what people respond to and what they want to see more of or what they want to see less of. You know, we see a real opportunity that, you know, print is not just a nice to have, it's like a real kind of core supporting part of what we do. So yeah, we're, we're in trial and error mode with all of it.
- [33:11]
B
Yeah. And look, I mean the magazine itself is a collectible. I mean especially done as beautifully as you guys have. And I think it's, it's interesting putting my sort of like brand marketing guide back in bear with me. But there's a lot of legacy brands that, that fold or go under because maybe their core of what they were, they didn't pivot and they shut down really great brands that might could have pivoted into something that then could leverage that trust and value that they had built. So it's awesome that you guys are able to sort of do that. I mean, and versus, you know, okay, print as it used to be, solely alone as a, you know, as a way to do business is difficult. But you guys, somehow you keep the heart of the brand, but you pivot to somewhere that has value for you and the consumer in today's market.
- [34:16]
A
Yeah, and it's hot. It is hard. You know, we had a lot of. When we took it over, it wasn't like, right, we've got this great idea, and this is what it's going to be. As I mentioned at the start, we didn't really know what it was going to be. We just like, there is something here and it's important that we do. And the brand is great, but, you know, we don't want a site that's covered in banner ads. You know, that just feels like a bit of a race to the bottom. You know, there has to be something bigger around it. And, you know. Yeah, you know, really proud of kind of where we've ended up with this model. But it is hard. You know, having a. Transitioning a brand like that, you know, brings a lot of tension as well. You know, what artists. Do we or don't we work with it? Is it about the artist? Is it not about the items? You know, there's a lot of. A lot of things we've got to figure out. And I'm not, you know, can't sit here and say we've got it all figured out, but, you know, we're certainly on the right path. But, yeah, you know, we talk a lot about making sure that we respect that legacy while also knowing we've got to build a business around this as well.
- [35:25]
B
And, you know, I could see pivoting even into, I don't know, the crossover sports of. And music. And, you know, not to. Not to push you too far. Hey, make one pivot at a time. But as you said, music's at the intersection of all these things. And I think as long as you keep that as a thread, I mean, I'm not. I'm not saying just go, well, you're gonna do a Michael Jordan basketball. No, but if Michael Jordan's in a music video with Michael Jackson, that's interesting.
- [35:55]
A
Well, this is the thing. And like, you know, it's already happening. Yeah, you know, we get that. We get this. This question quite a lot of like, you know, is it just music? Do you go out into other cultures? Like, the point is, exactly what you're saying is already happening with a lot of the artists that we're working with. You Know, they've, you know, we've got Nike Air Force One, De La Soul shoes, you know, sneakers, and we've got a triple Quest sneaker. Travis Sneaker world.
- [36:21]
B
Exactly.
- [36:22]
A
Sneaker world. You're in the fashion world. We've got, like, games that people have done, you know, music for. It's like you're already in the gaming world. Like, it's already happening. And, you know, I think we can be in danger of tying ourselves up in knots of trying to figure out how do we go into this market, how do we go into that market, and actually, you know, what, let it happen.
- [36:41]
B
Yeah.
- [36:41]
A
You know, and that stuff does just start happening by who we're working with.
- [36:45]
B
Yeah. I think you let the story. It's central, you know, it's music culture and hip hop guy be the thread. And what shoots out of that comes naturally by the power of the story, whether it's sports, whether it's movies, whether it's, you know, an actor, you know, it's. It's guided by the story.
- [37:06]
A
Exactly. And, you know, your point around, you know, yes, we started with hip hop, but we are much more. More than hip hop. And it very quickly became that. But it's a perfect example. Again, you know, hip hop in itself is straight out to all those other genres I mentioned.
- [37:22]
B
Yeah, it's feeding everything. Hip hop, feeding country music now. I mean, it's like as a guy in South Carolina who listens to country music, I hear the, The. The inspiration of hip hop in every song now.
- [37:35]
A
Yep.
- [37:36]
B
Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, you got a good thread that creates natural extensions.
- [37:42]
A
Exactly.
- [37:46]
B
Oh, man. Could we talk all day? Alex, give me some deets, give our audience some details, where to find the site, where to sign up for the journal, et cetera, et cetera, socials, all the handles.
- [38:00]
A
Well, if you want to stay fully up to date, I'd head to wax4essex.com join our mail list. Yeah, I would strongly encourage anyone listening who's into hip hop to make sure you're on that in good time. So, yeah. Waxpoetics.com A lot of our stuff we put out on Instagram, Wax, underscore, Poetics. And we're pumping a lot of good stuff out on YouTube now as well. And so you'll find it as wax. Wax Poetics. Wax underscore Poetics.
- [38:28]
B
You'll find us if you search on Google, on YouTube, you'll find them.
- [38:32]
A
Exactly, exactly. But best places to get on our mail list and keep an eye on what we're doing because, yeah, it is our 25th birthday next year and we've got some pretty big stuff lined up.
- [38:43]
B
I want a Prince like signed guitar.
- [38:47]
A
So do I.
- [38:49]
B
That exists for under six figures.
- [38:53]
A
Well, well, yeah, there's two different questions there.
- [38:56]
B
Right.
- [38:58]
A
Look, it is, it is Prince. I think it's 10 years since Prince died. Next year, April next year. So, you know, we have our best selling Prince issue up there full of artists and producers that have worked with him. So, you know, I think he's the.
- [39:14]
B
Greatest musician of all time. I think he's the greatest.
- [39:16]
A
I would agree.
- [39:17]
B
Yeah. Well, I mean, just all around, like genius. I would agree.
- [39:20]
A
And I think, you know, I think one thing for us, you know, every person that, you know, is involved with, I think loves Prince. And you know, I think that's the, that's the North Star from us. You know, get, get into that Prince vault and see, see what's in there.
- [39:37]
B
There's no telling. Alex, love what you're doing, man. Really appreciate you for coming on the show. Love to have you on regularly and to talk about that hip hop item that's coming up.
- [39:46]
A
Thank you. And look, I appreciate you kind of giving us some space to, you know, shine light on, on the music space as well. I know it's maybe a bit of a tangent for your, for your normal listeners.
- [39:56]
B
Hey, collector universe. That's why we're trading cards and collectibles. I gave my son myself, Elaine, you know, both selfishly and because I know that there's crossover, I guess. And you know, we'll talk about all the trading cards you want, but. And I love them. But I also love culture and music and the crossover. And again, we collect all kinds of things and this is some. And honestly, man, what you're doing with the editorial, with the editorial meeting, commerce is, is some of the best, best I've ever seen.
- [40:27]
A
Thank you. It really means a lot and I appreciate it.
- [40:30]
B
Hey guys, you're gonna find us collectibles show soon to be thecollectornation.com that's coming next month for. For now, hit collectibles show. Find the full length episode. Get the link to Wax Poetics. I'm telling you, go for the story, stick around for the merch and all the unique stuff. You know, you wish you'd gotten that Mariah carey tape. Maybe 54 GS. But you know what, you know, it's one of the biggest pieces of music history in hip hop and just music overall. Appreciate Alex for coming on and we appreciate you. We'll see you next time. Thanks for tuning in to the show. Don't forget to follow us on your favorite podcast platform and don't miss the full video version on YouTube. You can find us@collectornation.com or follow Ryan on Instagram at Ryan Alford now get out there and collect yours.