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Collector Nation
Inside VeeFriends: Building a New IP in the Modern Collectibles Market with Zachary Owings
00:54:09
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- [00:00]
Zachary Owings
Gary's Trojan horse is veefriends.
- [00:03]
Ryan Alford
Define for me at its core what veefriends is.
- [00:07]
Zachary Owings
Veefriends was always Gary's way of how can he break through walls that his content as a human can't break through? In a world of no new IPs are truly being built. Gary and veefriends are trying to do that.
- [00:21]
Podcast Host (Ryan Alford)
Welcome to the Collector Nation podcast. Here on the Collector Nation Network. Whether you're chasing grails or calling bluffs, we take you inside the hobby. Here's your host, Ryan Alford.
- [00:42]
Ryan Alford
Hey, what's up, guys? Welcome, Collector Nation. We got Zachary Owings lead global partnership and wholesale relationships with V Friends. I, I had to say it once, Zach. I'm, I'm gonna call you Zach. I could I look all my buds, I have like five friends named Zach. I don't know how it is. It's my most popular friend name one that I grew up with, and so I just got to call you Zach. Either way, you're crushing it, man. Appreciate you coming on the show.
- [01:07]
Zachary Owings
I, I, I'm very honored to be here. And you know, growing up, I used to think Zachary and Zach was like an exclusive name. And then as I've gotten older, everybody's fucking named Zach and Zachary. So I'm really pissed at my parents in a real way that they could have gave me a little bit better of a name. But I'll, I'll make it better when I have kids to give more distinct, unique name. But it's a real pleasure and I'm pumped up for the conversation.
- [01:33]
Ryan Alford
Yeah, man. Last thing I'll say about names, but every Zach I know is cool as so and so far, interactions with you and Vee friends has been nothing but that. So take that for what it's worth. What's cooking in Manhattan today, man?
- [01:50]
Zachary Owings
It's a semi cold, gloomy day in New York, but it's a busy day in the VaynerMedia v. Friends office right now. We're kind of simultaneously launching two kind of new pre sale products all while, you know, we have Topps Chrome kind of floating the balance, which is coming out June 10th. So we're super fired up about that. It's gonna be year two tops is really on board with us now. We're getting a broad release of Sapphire this year. So we're working hard and we're really trying to build it and really build, you know, distinct new categories that we believe in and see, you know, all while, you know, we have the greatest partnership and IP in The collectible space could have right now, and that's with Topps. So we're fired up and we're honored and excited to talk today.
- [02:38]
Ryan Alford
Damn. You said about 12 things right there, Zach, that could lead me down, like, seven different rabbit holes. I'm like, okay. Usually somebody says something, and I queue in on, like, one thing. You said, like, 12 things. The tops relationship's big. I mean, they have all the sports licenses that matter now, it seems.
- [02:58]
Zachary Owings
Yeah.
- [02:58]
Ryan Alford
Just gonna call a spade a spade. Yeah. And now they've got your franchise. You've had killer releases with them. I mean, I couldn't even get the last year. Like, I mean, I was like, you know, I got a few boxes. I was like, hey, I'll be able to go back. And, no, I couldn't even find it. I ended up getting in the secondary market, but crushed it with them so far with the Chrome releases. I'm. What's it like working with Tops? It's.
- [03:24]
Zachary Owings
It's great, but I think, you know, where people. You know, I think what people don't understand about the Tops relationship is that we're two different businesses. We are the licensee. We are not Topps. Tops does not own Vee Friends. Gary does not own Tops. There is no. There is no business because, you know, it's. You know, people were kind of coming at us last year, not you, but, like, other partners were like, well, you know, you guys have the license. You should have got me more product. And it's like, we. We can only do so much with a licensee. And, you know, and that was really, like, lack of a better term, was like a beta test for Topps to see if Vee actually had the juice and the demand and the collectors to actually be a Tops license. We obviously smacked it out of the ballpark as a team. Gary sitting at the helm of anything in the collectible space. We feel like we're in a position to do a lot. And then obviously, Gary and Michael Rubin's relationship, you know, at the highest level is, you know, in a great place. So working with Topps is amazing. They're the best partners, and we're. We're happy to have them, you know, pushing us and kind of leading us into this next frontier of the hobby, into V Friends. And as we continue to, you know, develop products with Tops, hopefully in more categories, like I said earlier, we have Chrome and Sapphire, you know, hopefully in a couple years, that'll expand to more things, because that's more distribution and more stores. You know, the biggest thing for Us. And what's been really hard growing Vee Friends is really the footprint, you know, because everything we've come out with has been actually so successful that it sells out so fast. So when you go back to the store in a month, the product isn't there. And so we're trying to still balance, like, how do we play this volume game? And as we grow, demand, obviously tops. You know, a tops box sitting on the shelf won't last very long in the world we live in, especially if it's like an appropriate price. 2. You know, how we think about, you know, our products outside the tops, you know, our super stickers, our pins, our treasure chest. You know, we're coming out with literally a collectible coin product as we, as we speak, because collectible coins are the fastest growing live shopping product. And we're like, okay, well, how do you keep that with the volume of like, we don't want to ever overprint demand. We need to keep demand in the system all while we're continuing to grow the pot. And we feel like our trojan horse, in the best way possible, is our tops license. We think that's only going to do great for our brand and having Vee Friends attached to that is great. And we think more people who don't know V friends or maybe don't like V friends or don't like Gary will give it a second look when they see that. And we get the by accident customers that then become massive collectors.
- [06:12]
Ryan Alford
Yeah. But very insightful there, by the way. I was sitting there going, wow, this is a very thoughtful answer and very. And I got, I followed every bit of it, but it also brought up another 12 things. But let me, let's start with this, Zach. I, I had to go there since you brought up tops, but I've known Gary a long time. You know, Gary's been out there. He's like the king. He started probably. I get, I'll call him the godfather of, like, personal branding. You know, I would agree with that. I mean, I don't know who, if you're giving to anybody else, I, I probably would, you know, go, you're, you're full of. He's built, I mean, obviously a global brand around his name. And then all these offshoots define for me at its core what Vee Friends is and, and where you guys are sitting in the hobby space and, you know, and dovetail that maybe into, you know, Gary's brand, et cetera.
- [07:11]
Zachary Owings
So I'm going to take the second thing you said first, and then I'm going to go into the other ones.
- [07:15]
Ryan Alford
Perfect.
- [07:16]
Zachary Owings
Veefriends is a very niche community and product. Let's call it what it is. It is. It is a new IP in a world of there's zero new IPs built. Marvel, Disney, DC. And these aren't. And these aren't. Like, I'm not being negative towards them. They have a business. They're doing projections. If they know Lilo and Stitch number two is going to sell rather than this new ip, why wouldn't. Why wouldn't you do that? If I can guarantee you $2 billion in sales to do this, or you have no idea what is going to happen in XYZ ip, what are you going to do? It's just business. At the end of the day, in a world of no new IPs are truly being built. Gary and Vee friends are trying to do that. We're trying to do almost the impossible in a lot of ways. And Gary compares Veefriends to trying to be Pokemon. Pokemon's the most successful IP of all time, sitting at a hundred billion dollars. It's going to be hard to ever come close, but we feel like if we can get close enough to the sun, we will have a good enough market share to have a real business and be able to do really what Gary wants to do. Which is back to the word, because my favorite word these days with veefriends and talking, Gary is always Trojan horse. Gary's Trojan horse is Vee Friends. Like you just said, Gary's kind of the godfather of personal branding. Gary's content is always motivational how to run your business process, you know, take your feelings out of it. Do right by your employees. You know, if you're depressed, stop doing the shit. Get away from the negative. People like that type of content and the stuff he talks about. For some people, it works. When I discovered Gary, I was like, damn, this motherfucker's, like, saying some real shit. Like, I should, like, look myself in the mirror. Some people, people close to me. When I first followed Gary and before I even worked for him, I was putting people on there. People like, why would you follow this dumbass? And so like, okay, Gary doesn't work for those people, but there's some people Gary will work for. So Veefriends was always his way of how can he break through walls that his content as a human can't break through? And we feel like the collectible of the friends. Whether it's patient panda, a notorious ninja, or motivated monster, or kind warrior, we feel like, if we can build enough with tops, with our comic books, with other collectibles, we come out with, with the TV show, with a children's book, with toys that we feel like will slowly start to break through the walls that his content can break through. And that, at the end, is, like, what we want to be. We want to be somewhere where we can help inspire people, motivate people, help parents become better parents, help kids understand that, like, shit, I should be kind to my brother and sister. I should be kind to my parents. I should thank them for buying me the $500 baseball bat that most people don't have the money for. And I. And, like, I understand that that's a privilege, and I should be thankful for that. So that's really what Veefriends is trying to be. I know Gary likes to compare it as like, Pokemon, meet Sesame Street. I think that is the best analogy. But at the end of the day, we're just trying to be V friends. We're trying to create our own kind of, I would say niche or market share within the hobby. Because the hobby is only growing bigger and bigger. And I think as we continue to develop, you know, it's. It's not a hobby anymore. This is a business.
- [10:29]
Ryan Alford
There.
- [10:29]
Zachary Owings
There's billions and billions and billions of dollars floating around, and private equity is like three seconds away from starting to buy Michael Jordan and PSA 10 Cinderella Super Fractures as an investment, you know, as their 1, 2, 3, 4% investment portfolio. Because the performance is 400% a year over five years, and the S&P is 20%. So we're so close to having so much money pour into that. So we think a rising tide lifts all boats, and we think veefriends will be part of that. Plus, we also feel like with Gary and Topps and with building real cool collectibles and getting people to fall in love with the characters via the comic books, we're in a great position to succeed.
- [11:13]
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- [11:49]
Ryan Alford
I'll say this. I don't agree with every idea that Gary's ever had or every take that he's hat. But I, I'll say this. There's no one, I've told people this, like if you, if you don't like Gary's content or him, you don't know him number one. And number two, it just means he's right about you. 100 and people don't like that mirror. They don't want the mirror on them. And I'm just, you know, you can, everybody's got flavors. I like chocolate, I like strawberry. That's fair. But you can't argue with 90% of what Gary preaches. So we'll leave that there for the haters because I don't agree with every. It's not a oh in Gary I trust. I mean there's shit he says I don't agree with that but I respect the hell out of his position on it because I know it's formulated from a, from a place of good.
- [12:46]
Zachary Owings
At the end of the day, you shouldn't agree with anybody 100%.
- [12:50]
Ryan Alford
Yeah.
- [12:51]
Zachary Owings
Like no one. I mean no one. So you're 100. Right. But if, but if Gary's right about 70 of then like cool, you might.
- [13:02]
Ryan Alford
Than he is wrong. I think we could say 100.
- [13:04]
Zachary Owings
Yeah. And I, I've always said like from, from a personal standpoint, he's helped me like he helped me look in the mirror. He's the reason, you know, I'm in the position I am today. And that was before I even knew he was a human. And you know what I would say about Gary being with Gary for four years and kind of this what I call like a right hand world, kind of the office of the CEO as he runs a 2400 person business behind me and 16 global offices all while he has v friends, a restaurant group, a sports agency, and plus he invests in hundreds of other companies. In startup and VC land, Gary's actually better as advertised. He's better than advertised. Like he is literally a better human and more kind and more thoughtful and more empathetic than he actually puts out in his content. And so that's what we can leave it there. But like yeah, we'll leave it there.
- [13:53]
Ryan Alford
And I know people that know him better than me and I know him and I know him to be that. And people that know him better than me that I trust unconditionally would say the same thing. So we'll, we'll leave that there. You don't have to like being told what you don't want to hear and you don't have to like tomato soup or whatever flavor it is, but it's coming from the right place, and he's right a lot, so just get over it. We'll leave that there. So who's the avatar? All right. The customer avatar, you know, for vee friends. Because I hear, you know, Pokemon, meet Sesame street. And I would agree with that. I have kids. That's why I love the product and I love the positivity, which we'll talk about some of the messaging. But I do step back sometimes. And now owning a store that we broadcast in and selling the product and it sells, I do sometimes as a marketer first and everything else second. Step back, go. All right, who is this avatar? And I'm sure you guys are building it and refining it with everything you're doing, but who is that?
- [15:00]
Zachary Owings
Our avatar. I brought some. I feel like this is, again, a very, very, very, very lucky black cap is by far our avatar. Like that is. That is our Pikachu. Like that is. That is kind of our mascot. Like, that is what we're building. You know, the analogy comes from Gary growing up and even me growing up and probably, you know, you could say the same. Black cats were considered unlucky. So as Gary created this, he's like, all right, the conspiracy theories, I'm gonna flip it on its head and, like, I'm gonna make it actually lucky. And so that's kind of how it started. Obviously, the over. Obviously, the over emphasization of the varies is very Gary esque, no pun intended. But also, you know, there's other emerging characters. Like, this is. This is the new kind of coin product, you know, that we're launching. And, like, these are massive characters, like robot ninja, duck fairies. A massive character. Confident cobra will have a big appearance. So, like, we're doing other things to kind of put, you know, other characters in the limelight. Like, if you see our tops, chrome boxes, we're putting 50 characters on the box because we want people to see it and be like, well, we're not a known brand. Like, you know, Pokemon could put Pikachu on a box. And it's good. They can put Charizard on a box. It's good. They can put blast toys on a box. It's good for us. We feel like we have to put more variety because it takes one kid, one parent, one adult, one teenager to be like, oh, that ninja looks dope. Oh, that robot looks dope. Oh, the fairy looks dope. Like, and so we want to give people a variety of, like, these are kind of what the characters look like. Because we got to. Onboard people. We got to. We're building the brand every day. It's only five years old, but the Black Cat is our mascot. But you'll start to see very, you know, just like Pokemon, you know, there's. There's ten characters everybody knows, or five characters everybody knows. And that's kind of how we're Vee friends will eventually sit once the dust. Dust settles of, you know, there's going to be 6, 7, 8, 10 characters that people know and consider the mascot or main characters of the set. But as it sits right now, the Black Cat is. Is the symbol. Like, this is the graded coins that are the new set. Like, in the label, we have the Black Cat mascot, you know, and this is the ninja. You know, this is the OG Art ninja. So, like, we're really pushing the Black Cat to be the thing. And it's. It's been fun as people have no idea what defense is. They'll be like, I don't know anything, but I know the Black Cat is big. And that's kind of. And that's really the branding that, like, we're trying to build. Like, if you understand one thing, like, the Black Cat's cool, just like Pikachu is cool.
- [17:30]
Ryan Alford
Yep. Who's the customer? Who. Who is that customer for Vee Friends? Like, the. You know, maybe the coins might be a whole different thing. I mean, the comics might be a whole different thing. Yeah. So maybe let's focus on the cards. You know, who is that sort of. What's that customer look like? And who are they?
- [17:49]
Zachary Owings
And I'm not going to be able to give you a direct answer because it. Because it's actually the truth. Like, our customer is really anybody, actually, like, it's. It's an adult, it's a parent, it's a kid, it's a teenager. It's someone who likes Gary. It's someone who stumbled upon veefriends in a time of, like, they were depressed and the community helped lift them up, and now they're the biggest veefriends collector. Or, you know, they stumbled upon the comic book. And I know you said not to mention that, like, the real answer is, is it actually is anybody? Because it's so positive and it's not, like, graphic. It's not inappropriate. Like, yes, there's some swear words involved, but, like, everybody swears. And parents, if you think your kids. Yeah, exactly. Like, parents, if you think your kids aren't swearing, they're definitely swearing. When you're not around. Yeah, and same with the parents. You guys are swearing. So, like, for us, like, we, it really is anybody, I would say our kind of current, like, demo. If you were like, hey, I have to box you in maybe like 25 to 40, which is kind of a big range. But like, that's kind of what I would say. But it really is anybody, because it's so not that it's like pg. It's just like it's appropriate for anybody and I think anybody can relate to it. Like, you might, a 40 year old might open this and be like, all right, this is corny as hell, but a 40 year old could open this and be like, this is dope. You know, so like, to us, it, it really is Everybody, but like 25 to 40 might be the age range, but we're continuing to obviously still win that demo. Like, why would you go away from a demo you're already winning on? But like, for us is obviously like, how can we get kids on it? And that's, you know, through the children's book, through, you know, the children's TV shows, through toys, through comics, and also onboarding parents to then onboard their kids. And that's kind of how we think about it.
- [19:41]
Ryan Alford
Do you feel like there's, you know, when I think of the hobby right now, you know, it's sports cards and Pokemon and. Yes. There's One Piece and there's magic and there's every, you know, and do you feel like you guys get more crossover from the Pokemon crowd or the sports card crowd?
- [20:00]
Zachary Owings
Sports. That'd be close. Yeah. And I, I would say that, you know, I would say Pokemon people are very guarded, especially if they're like, really? Pokemon. They're very guarded. They don't, they just don't take to other things. Yeah. Sports card people. When our tops Chrome 2025 dropped, we found a lot of sports people and be like, this is dope. And that could have been because it was Topps Chrome. It could have been because it was Gary. It could have been because they just like, it was something new. I would say sports people are like, more likely to, I think, be onboarded. But I also think, like, I, I'm glad I'm on this podcast because I can really be on wax now. I think fictional, and that's Disney, Marvel, v Friends, one piece. All that obviously TCG space is like, crazy right now. Yeah, I think fictional will far outpace sports in the next two years. Not even close. And obviously Pokemon is going to lead that kind of like tide you know, rising. But like, I think, I think if I went to any nook and cranny in the world and showed him a, if I just hung up a picture, no words on and said, who is this? And it was Superman, they'd be like, that's Superman. If I show them a picture of Tom Brady, who's probably the most well known athlete in America, they'd be like, I don't know who the fuck that is. So like to me is like fictional is kind of already happening and I think that's going to continue to outpace and. But sports card people, I think people who have been hard sports are going to slowly start to get into fictional, which is going to raise the boats. And I think people that are in fictional are just going to go harder because there's going to be more money or they're going to make more money or they're going to see more opportunity, you know, whatever it is. But yeah, definitely, sports people I think take towards v Friends a little bit more and it could be multifaceted because of tops or Gary.
- [21:48]
Ryan Alford
It's interesting. I was, I collected growing up and put it all on the shelf like a lot of people when I was, I don't know, 13, 14, basketball, playing year round, girls, cars, school, you know, and it went on the shelf. My boys brought me back into it two years ago and I came back in. I'd heard Gary talk. Gary's been talking about it for 10 years or more, probably longer, but I heard him, you know, digesting his content well before my boys got into it and they got back into it obviously and I, I was interested. But you know, your kids bring you back and, and that, and what, what's been fascinating to me is with the evolution of the hobby and the data and the information is you've got these two realms of collectors and investors slash flippers and it's a fascinating part of the hobby.
- [22:47]
Zachary Owings
Yeah.
- [22:49]
Ryan Alford
Where do you feel as though, you know, your opinion on that landscape and maybe just where V friends fits in all of that.
- [23:00]
Zachary Owings
Obviously Gary is the first person to say flip life. So obviously I think that yard variance, it's very, it's very heavy in just the Gary community and Vee Friends community, but we also have real collectors. Listen, a $99 Topps Chrome box doesn't go to $700 because everybody's flipping it. Someone's got to rip it and someone's got to want it and someone's got to want to collect it. Like that's point blank, period. We're Definitely flip life. There's definitely investment, and there's definitely just hardcore collectors that probably think about investing. Like, I just like the kind warrior character. And I just want to collect every single card I possibly can. And, like, I'm never gonna sell it, but, you know, if I die, my kids will take it over. They want to sell it, whatever, you know. And I think all three of those levels, V Friends, does hit, and the hobby needs all three of them. Like, you know, I think people, like. And you really hear it with Pokemon, the scalpers and the Flippers, and like, they buy them all and then the price goes up and it's like supply and demand dynamics. Like that. That's. That's life. Like, that's the stock market. That's real estate. Like, supply and demand is everything. And there's obviously the equilibrium that I don't know if the hobby will ever hit. You know, just like the stock market never really hits an equilibrium. Like, it's never just, like, flat for 10 years. So, you know, I think Veefriends hits all three. I think the Hobby needs all three. And I think, like, where I, you know, me personally and positioned, I'm a. I'm a hardcore collector. But I think about from the collecting standpoint of the investor in me, where I'm like, I'm going to take chances on this card because whether I sell it, you know, in five years, I think it'll go up in value, or if I never sell it, I still think it'll go up in value. Like, for me to buy a $2,000 card and be like, I just got it for fun, like, I'm just not like that. I'm like, I'm. I'm putting $2,000 here, I think, because of supply and demand, because of the arbitrage, because it's. It's a low print on psa. Like, there's a lot of math that goes on. And, you know, Gary's talked a lot about kind of the vintage fictional rookie cards. Superman, Batman, Spider Man, Iron man, all that. Like, it's real. Like, those cards don't exist. They don't. You know, and especially in the day and age of, like, how many cards are being printed and how popular the hobby is, you know, for me, where I invest is really Series 1V friends cards and sealed product, and then. And then literally, like, vintage rookie cards of, like, Iron Man, Spider Man, Batman. I can't afford the Superman cards, but that kind of Marvel set, you know, Ninja Turtles, Tom and Jerry, Rick and Morty, Timmy Turner, rookie Cards, like, I, I play in that kind of world because the print run is so low, but I think about it from an investing, collecting standpoint. But I got some vintage stuff sitting
- [25:43]
Ryan Alford
in the case over here. Vintage, you said turtles. I got some. Some vintage boxes over here that I bought off of, like, this guy. And they're for sale, but I'm second guessing it, of course.
- [25:55]
Zachary Owings
You know, listen, I always tell people when they have something they don't want to sell, put it up there for a crazy price.
- [26:01]
Ryan Alford
Yeah, that's.
- [26:03]
Zachary Owings
Literally no one will buy it. Nobody. But if one person does, you, it's a lot of money. You know, like, I always tell people that, but, like, it's. It's also like the fun part of the hobby. Like, you know, a. A good piece of advice I got early in the hobby. I bought my very first. The first ever card I ever bought as an adult was a PSA1 Batman rookie card. And I literally was obsessed with it. I literally was obsessed with it. And. And someone pulled me aside. Our lead media buyer at VaynerMedia, he's like a whiz with numbers and like, loves collecting. He was like, listen, he's like, if you love the card that much, go buy another one. So if someone ever gives you a crazy offer, you can sell one and you still have one. And so that's what I try to do where I'm like, all right, if I love a car too much, I need to get more so that I can sell some and keep the. At least the one I want.
- [26:55]
Ryan Alford
I thought I was the only one that did that. I have, like, duplicates of like, my favorite player is Josh Allen in football. And then. But I went to Clemson, so Trevor Lawrence and all those Clemson guys. So collect Josh Allen and Trevor. And I've got like, duplicates of like, all their biggest rookies because of that very reason.
- [27:16]
Zachary Owings
At the end of the day, it's. It's good business. Like, at the end of the day, it's bad business not to sell. If someone's giving you an offer that, like, makes you think twice and that you might regret. Regret one day, buy another one, sell it. And then you're like, all right, this one's paid for. It's tucked away forever.
- [27:32]
Ryan Alford
Now talking with Zachary Owings, he's the lead global badass at Vends. Just gave him a new title and put that on your resume. I like that, Zach, you said something that I want to unpack a little bit, and I. It's. So you and I are on the same Plane and thinking, not surprising, knowing you work with Gary. But the. I laugh at the posts and the trolls that talk about the scalpers and talk about product and, and I, and I respond like, I'll take time. I have no time. I mean, none of us do. But I have no time to respond to trolls. But I will occasionally when I do and I'll. Here's what I write. If these scalpers weren't doing what they're doing or there wasn't that demand that they're creating, your collection will be worth shit. Supply and demand is real and you need that to happen on some level or, and we can argue whatever. A lot of the retailers are putting in limits and things. So, yeah, we want it to be fair. I'm not trying, you know, one guy can't walk in by 400 things. I get that. We got to have a bit of fairness in it. But it's also, if that guy wants to get up at 3am, we live in an American society of free capitalism and wants to get up at 3am, wait in line and get how many ever he can buy, and he's just working harder than you. And number two, your collection isn't worth what it's worth because everybody wants it to be worth. You want everything to be worth 500, $1,000. But guess what? If that demand wasn't there, you would. It wouldn't be worth that.
- [29:07]
Zachary Owings
It'd be worth zero. And. Yeah, and what's even funny is the people who are mad at the scalpers are actually jealous that they're not the ones getting all the products. So they could be the monopoly and control the market.
- [29:20]
Ryan Alford
There it is. Ding, ding, ding, ding. The truth here on Collector Nation.
- [29:26]
Zachary Owings
Yeah, it's. It's literally the funniest thing of all time. And like, scalpers and like, you know, prices going from. And we felt it, you know, with our tops chrome set going from 99 to 700 bucks in six months. Like, that prices a lot of people out. Like, it was great for us and we felt honored and like, we were like, damn, this is crazy. But two, we were also like, it's hard to onboard somebody like, hey, you've never heard of V friends? Here's a 700 hobby box. Yeah, those are hard dynamics.
- [29:52]
Ryan Alford
Yeah.
- [29:53]
Zachary Owings
So I, I, and I get it from both sides, but at the end of the day, a lot of the people mad at the scalpers are actually just jealous that they just got beat to the punch.
- [30:00]
Ryan Alford
Yeah. And exactly. And then the guy. Then there's this guy, the complaint about the, the pricing of stuff, but they still want the cards to be worth a million dollars. They want a one on one Wimby or a one on one black hat. They want it to be worth a hundred thousand dollars, but they want that box to cost or the pack to cost $2 and 99 cents. That's not the way it works. Yeah, it's like, it's definitely not the way it works. So it's like you can't have it. All these people, I'm like. And look, I get it. Look, I understand both sides. I'm not, I'm pathetic to it. But like, yeah, if there's not the chase, if the chase isn't there, the demand, you don't have the demand. If you don't have the demand, you don't have the price. If you don't have the price, your collection is shit.
- [30:46]
Zachary Owings
Yeah, I couldn't agree, I couldn't agree more. And I hate to be a paid spokesperson here, but you know, a big thing why, and I know you guys were, were a big part of, of this launch was the spectacular super stickers. We did.
- [30:59]
Ryan Alford
Yep.
- [30:59]
Zachary Owings
Our super stickers are for two reasons. Transparently, we can't legally print cards when it comes to our tops license. So our super stickers are our way to continue to kind of feed the card market, but in a much cheaper way. So like these spectacular super stickers, right, for, for A box is 100, 120 bucks for 12 packs, which is like very cheap in the hobby landscape. Yes, this is a super sticker. But the set we did with Steph Curry, the one before this, the manga super stickers, the Steph Curry gary dual auto to 10. Sold for $17,000 on Super Bowl Sunday.
- [31:34]
Ryan Alford
Pretty good.
- [31:35]
Zachary Owings
2. In this set alone, there was three different bounties. 10,000, $15,000 and $20,000. In the best three, five of the six best black cat inserts haven't been hit that are probably worth thousands of dollars. We feel like. Yes, back to your point of like the scalpers and stuff being too expensive, that is definitely a thing. But where we feel like our super stickers help get to the cheaper price point, but actually the ROI of like if you have the worst box ever and sell every single card, you know, you lose 80 bucks, whatever. We also have the upside. If you hit one single card, you can five times your money or ten times your money. And we feel like the collector base that we're building and obviously building the brand with super stickers and tops kind of aligned. We hear that from the price point standpoint, which is why our products mean so much to us. Specifically, kind of the super stickers, because they're kind of like our. Our. Our card set for now. Yeah. And we think it's super important to give somebody an appropriate price so they can actually rip. Because a lot of, like, the hobby is, like, the fun of the rip. It is the fun of the chase. You know, to your point, like, everybody wants. Of course everybody wants to fucking Wemby Kaboom. Nice. Nice. I don't even collect sports cards. I want the Wendy Kaboo, obviously. So, you know, there's that. But, like, we feel like as the hobby grows, like, yes, there needs to be the $10,000 boxes. There also needs to be the $10 boxes, you know, because people. Because people can't afford sometimes 100, 200 bucks extra a month. That is a real dynamic in this life. Like, I know it kind of gets lost within the hobby because even though I called it a business, but, like, hobby because it's, like, it's fun, it's an escapism, but, like, there's real people out here struggling. And I think if the hobby needs to grow, there needs to be the $10,000 box for the person who does want to only chase the Wemby Kaboom. But there's also so many people that I think are being missed out on and that. Well, you know, whether it's vee friends, whether it's tops, whether it's Panini, whether it's another card company that inserts itself Pokemon. The dynamics of having that couple dollar pack or that ten, twenty dollars box will onboard so many new people to the hobby that as they grow up and get more money, then they might be in the market for the $10,000 box if they become successful. So, you know, those are dynamics that we think about every day at Veefriends. And obviously, we're a. We're. We're a small fish in a massive ocean, but we're going to keep eating food and growing. And, you know, we're trying to get there to help, you know, onboard people to obviously vfriends. But the hobby in general, like, at the end of the day, like, the more people that comes into the hobby helps me friends. There's no, like, if someone only collects Pokemon, it fucks us. That is not true at all. If more people collect Pokemon veefriends by accident, people are going to stumble on Gary's content. A live show that we're doing. They're going to walk in your store and be like, what is that? That looks kind of dope. That's not super expensive. Oh, I've actually seen the ebay sales on that. And so that dynamics. I threw a lot at you, but I just.
- [34:34]
Ryan Alford
Raises all ships, baby.
- [34:36]
Zachary Owings
Yeah. I think it was a good time to be a paid spokesperson to kind of plug.
- [34:40]
Ryan Alford
And I'm gonna pause for. Tell Bella to please go grab some of the better Ven sticker cards that we have and the pack, because I've pulled a lot of them. I'm. I'm our biggest. Well, I own the store, but I. I rip. Me and the boys rip as many of your friends as anyone. And we sold almost as many probably as a store. A store that's two months old.
- [35:04]
Zachary Owings
Yeah.
- [35:04]
Ryan Alford
And so we sell. But I wanna. I wanna show because look, I want people to see a couple perspective. The hits we've gotten, because they're cool and they're fun to open and they lean into just enough of kind of the hobby mechanisms, the numbered stuff and all that with also being differentiated. Zach, while she's doing that, let's. Let's talk a little bit about the experiential side of vends, vcon, those types of things and how that all kind of works together.
- [35:36]
Zachary Owings
Yeah. So VCON was part of the NFTS when they first came out. Gary promised three years of VCon. We did that two years ago. Last one was in LA. It was really exciting. We're definitely going to do it again. We talked about it. Maybe doing it this October got postponed. VCON is just what we call kind of like a mega super business conference of 150 speakers. All the friends, people will invite people, you know, based on kind of Gary, the entities he owns. So we can give tickets out, but it's really just one big community event to whether it's a speaker that you love, you know, your best friends in the community you can meet. It's one big fucking hangout. Like, it's really that. So that's kind of like the experiment experiential side that we did. You know, based on the NFTs, we're hoping to kind of get back into VCon, but it's a. It's a heavy lift. And I think, you know, the vcons going forward will have a lot more collectible element to it that the first three were kind of more like business, business, business. But that was because we didn't have Tops Chrome, and a lot of people didn't really know about the cards and the collectibles and obviously the Hobby is over the last two years has gotten 10 times bigger and it's only going to get bigger. So we'll continue to play with that and build on that. But that's, that's where VCON is attached, which is actually the NFTs, which is our digital collectible, which if Gary was on this call or if he busted through this door right now would be like never buy anything physical, only buy the. The Series 1 NFTs because he fully believes where one is that as an asset as the world continues to pivot harder into technology and AI and instead of cell phones we're wearing glasses, that that's when the NFTs will really start to take hold. And I think people will understand it. Plus I. We're literally like a stone throw away from BlackRock headquarters who every day is talking about tokenization of every single asset on planet Earth. And So it's happening. NFTs and the boom and the bust obviously happen very similar to Internet stocks. The Internet is very much here. The Internet. If the Internet got turned off today, I don't know what would happen to the world, but I don't want to be a part of it. And I think NFTs will eventually, over the next 10, 20, 30 years will cement themselves as something like that. And it specifically as the hobby grows and as more big brands, whether it be tops Panini I. E. The panini blockchain. Those NFTs are crazy with the kaboom. So we, we feel like we're well positioned to be one of the best. What we call digital, which is digital physical IPS that exist.
- [38:18]
Ryan Alford
It's a, it's a real. I mean we could do a whole episode on, on that.
- [38:22]
Zachary Owings
Yeah.
- [38:23]
Ryan Alford
So I want to ask you some things without burying us too far as we're towards the back half of this, of the episode here. But it's.
- [38:33]
Zachary Owings
I was.
- [38:34]
Ryan Alford
I'm not a. I'm not a fortune teller like Gary. And I think Gary's more practical than he is fortune teller. You know, I think he's a practitioner. He executes better than anyone, probably more than anything, but he's definitely, probably more of a fortune teller than I would ever consider myself or, you know, and. But I will say I kind of panned the whole. I just thought it was too early with the NFT and the metaverse and all that. I was like, this is coming, but I don't think it's now. And I think. I think I might have been right about that. Yeah. But it's definitely still here. And I definitely see the value that I have kids, I got 10 year old to 16 for four boys. It. They value digital things in a way that we certainly didn't. So I'm not naive to that. They also value physical things too. So it's a. And not an or.
- [39:31]
Zachary Owings
Always. Always. That's.
- [39:33]
Ryan Alford
That's the Gary.
- [39:34]
Zachary Owings
That's the Gary in you right there.
- [39:36]
Ryan Alford
Well, yeah, I mean I believe that wholeheartedly.
- [39:39]
Zachary Owings
The so true.
- [39:40]
Ryan Alford
But it's like, but I do struggle knowing and saying what I just said with no, it's not like going to be a flip of the switch. What I think, I think that's what we tried to make it a little bit was okay, it's here. NFTs go, metaverse gone, flip the switch on. It's clearly not that it's going to be a slower build while everything else is moving so fast, but I still struggle a bit. I'd love to know your perspective, Zach. Where are we in that pendulum swing? Because there's definitely value. Yep. But I, I think you know what I'm asking. I'm just gonna let you respond.
- [40:17]
Zachary Owings
Yeah. I'm literally, I'm literally trying to look up in the last month how many NFTs were sold and I bet it's a ridiculous number.
- [40:24]
Ryan Alford
Okay. Yeah.
- [40:26]
Zachary Owings
So look at. So April 2026. That's now.
- [40:30]
Ryan Alford
Yeah.
- [40:32]
Zachary Owings
Looks like 546 million in NFT sales was this month.
- [40:38]
Ryan Alford
Wow. Is that dollars?
- [40:40]
Zachary Owings
Yeah. Down million dollars.
- [40:42]
Ryan Alford
Yeah.
- [40:43]
Zachary Owings
So what I would say is in the pendulum swing we had the boom. We're definitely not at the high again. That was euphoria.
- [40:50]
Ryan Alford
Yep.
- [40:51]
Zachary Owings
That was not real life. That was Covid. Everybody was at home.
- [40:55]
Ryan Alford
Yeah. Had more money than they really, than they really had the government.
- [40:59]
Zachary Owings
The government was giving you money to do nothing. Everybody was bored.
- [41:03]
Ryan Alford
Yeah.
- [41:03]
Zachary Owings
It became a gambling in a casino. But the NFTs have real like listen, the blockchain, everybody actually uses NFTs. They're just not called NFTs more than you think. Have you, Ryan, have you ever done a docusign?
- [41:19]
Ryan Alford
Absolutely. Daily probably.
- [41:22]
Zachary Owings
That's an nft. So like I think like as people get educated and understand that like that's an nft. Do you have a mortgage? That would be better on the blockchain. So like I think those dynamics of like actual real life, as those continue to cement themselves, I've always said that I don't think NFTs are, when they become the thing, aren't going to be called NFTs. You know, the Internet was called the worldwide Internet. Now it's just Internet. So like I think it will shorten or something will change within that. But you know, we had the boom, we had the bust and I think we're just somewhere less like slowly kind of inching up. We're definitely like not on the floor. You know, I don't know what like percentage. We're definitely not like halfway to the boom. But I think there's more action on NFTs than people think. And it's only going to take one company, one project to shine light onto it, to have the whole kind of onboarding system that we saw kind of overnight.
- [42:23]
Ryan Alford
It's interesting to me and I'm building some IP myself around Collector Nation and it's a fascinating thought process with what's happening with digital packs and physical inventory. And I'm sitting here as I'm building it, doing it, you know, my brain starts working and I go, and you got vaults, right? You got all this stuff where a lot of people don't ever touch the card. It's. We're dancing all around this notion of what we're talking about here, right?
- [43:02]
Zachary Owings
We're literally dancing on it. Just no one wants to say it. Yeah, it's, it's really that like it, it becomes an education. It's like if I went outside right now and I was like, do you own nft? They'd be like, I don't want that scam, that like doesn't exist. Yeah, but if I was like, hey, did you know this month there was $546 million sold in NFTs? They'd be like, wait, what? Yeah, they would have no idea. And then at 2 it's like, okay, you've never, oh, you've never used an nft. Have you ever digitally signed a contract and sent it back? That's an nft. It would actually, and it would actually be probably more efficient if it was on the blockchain because you would legally be able to see it land and approved and like when the person's like, oh, I lost it. You'd be like, oh, it's actually on the blockchain. I have it right here. You can't lie to me, you know. So like people actually have no idea. The blockchain actually brings a lot of full, a lot of transparency and things that get lost. And in my biggest spokesperson where I could just mic drop back to BlackRock, that's the third biggest country asset wise in the world behind us and China. If they say tokenization is going to take over and they're already doing it because they are, they already are doing it with bonds, with, with, with treasury bonds.
- [44:15]
Ryan Alford
Yeah.
- [44:15]
Zachary Owings
If they're the third biggest doing it.
- [44:17]
Ryan Alford
Yeah.
- [44:17]
Zachary Owings
And they're massive in America. What do you think's about to happen? You know, whatever you feel about Trump and our president, like he's talked a lot about bitcoin and crypto. It's happening. He literally said that crypto is going to boom overnight if they can get the legislation right and provide the guidelines. Because that's all people are waiting for in a lot of ways. They just want the guidelines before they invest. So if they lose money or they get sued, they have, they have legal things to like help themselves so they don't lose and they don't get fired. That's all everybody's waiting for. And I think as people get educated, as we see bigger countries, bigger companies slowly start to dip their toes into it a little bit, that will be kind of the pendulum swing to your point that I think a lot of big players are waiting on. And Gary, for a long time, like he knew, like, I'm going to be early. That's why I have to talk about all the, A lot of these projects are going to go to zero. VFriends obviously was very expensive and it came down. But like, you know, you can go on OpenSea right now and try to buy a Series 1 NFT. The cheapest one. $6,000. I don't know many people sit with $6,000 to buy an NFT these days. So I would say we're doing all right. Plus we have a whole physical brand with comic books, a TV show, a Tops Chrome deal. Like we're really doing it and we're really a company. I can show 25 people behind me that are working every single day as hard as possible and veefriends to build the physical part. So the digital is slowly gonna come back. It just takes time. Like people, people are impatient. Like the Internet boomed and crashed, you know, and then it took 20 years until Covid before everybody looked at each other like social media. The Internet's the only thing that matters. Yeah. So I would like, I would like to say, okay, from the bust of whatever it was, 2022, 2023. Let's, let's, let's give it 20 years and let's see where it sits. And I think v friends will be in a good place. And I just think NFTs in general will be a massive part of investing collectibility, asset wise.
- [46:16]
Ryan Alford
Yeah. Scarcity and availability, you know, will drive all of that and the fact that my kids place value on digital pretty closely equal to physical in a lot of ways. Like. Like, they care what their skin is in Fortnite. They care. Like, you know, I need to jump in there.
- [46:41]
Zachary Owings
I need to jump in there. And this is one thing Gary does really well. And like, something. I've gotten better and the more I've been with him, your opinion means nothing. Yeah, it means nothing. Because, like, if you're like, I would never buy an NFT. Digital sucks. Crypto sucks. Guess what? In 20 years, when your kids actually are the ones that have the say, if they're like, digital is everything and crypto is everything and NFTs are everything, guess what it is. Those are everything.
- [47:09]
Ryan Alford
Yeah.
- [47:10]
Zachary Owings
Your opinion does not matter. And that's what Gary does really well, where, like, he takes his feelings out and he's like, what's the trend? What's the data? What's actually happening? And then. Okay, let's make an assumption. $546 million to something that is a fad looks like a pretty good business to me.
- [47:29]
Ryan Alford
Yeah, it's definitely swinging. I see it. I don't know when the right. I think you have to weigh your options. If it's an investment of. Of where you wanted to. There's plenty to. As we close out Zach, and we've got a little bit over time. I appreciate that. I just wanted to show look how cool these are. We'll have these. Yeah, we've got. I've got. I don't know. This is. Out of 299 brave bison. I've got. Oh. Out of 55. This guy. If you can see that.
- [48:01]
Zachary Owings
I can't see it that far.
- [48:02]
Ryan Alford
They're very cool looking, I'm telling you. Like when you get. When you rip one of these, the sticker packs and. Oh, you brought it up. So I'm going to hold it up. You're going to know what it is.
- [48:15]
Zachary Owings
Oh, that's the crossover.
- [48:17]
Ryan Alford
Let's go. Yeah. Yeah, let's go. Those are fun. From the Super Sticker.
- [48:21]
Zachary Owings
I want to say it as we close. I think the Steph Curry manga set will forever be one of the most underrated things we've done at Vee Friends. And it's a big deal. Listen, I'm eating my own dog food. I'm sitting on a sealed case of Vanga super Stickers. For the long term, I have no plans to sell it. I think it'll forever be one of the most slept on products because as Vee Friends becomes More popular. Steph Curry's literally one of the best basketball players of all time. Completely changed. Like the way basketball is played this day and age is because of Steph Curry. And there's no other answer that is correct. So and obviously the autographs and the cards go crazy. That's the chill chinchilla.
- [49:00]
Ryan Alford
Which for me, on card for me.
- [49:05]
Zachary Owings
Let's go, let's go. So yeah, the, the Steph Curry product which is back to kind of our super stickers. You know that Those boxes are 80 bucks online, you know, with super stickers going for thousands of dollars. So we feel like the dynamics and you know, work. I mean look, I mean that's a
- [49:22]
Ryan Alford
big deal for the V for the friend. I think you're right about being underrated because and or underappreciated. What that really means is one of the greatest players of all time. He changed the dynamic of the game with three point shooting. He will be in the hall of fame. He's going to retire soon. Next couple of years probably just Father time gets us all and you got shared product with them, dude. Like okay, yeah, our first, our first, our first.
- [49:47]
Zachary Owings
And also the real story is that was our first broad release product that we did as a company in five years. Like that we did. We supplied it to 197 of our partners and did it that way as like we continue to try to build our business up in a, in kind of a direct way. So you know, maybe it was, you know, we didn't market it enough or we thought it would do itself and we didn't feel like we had to do anything because Tops Chrome exploded. And I, I'm happy with it. And I'll continue to buy sealed boxes and cards that I feel are underpriced when it comes to that set because Steph Curry's only going to grow in more popularity. Yeah, I think that's point blank and, and V Friends is trying to do the same.
- [50:34]
Ryan Alford
So was it under printed or overprinted?
- [50:38]
Zachary Owings
Was definitely underprinted.
- [50:39]
Ryan Alford
All right, there we go. I love the witness a little bit there. I do the answer but I. So if you're listening, listen.
- [50:47]
Zachary Owings
Full transparency. We could have printed a lot more, A lot more based on the demand we had for that because that was actually coming off the back of Tops and everybody was mad they didn't get it or the people who got it made a ton of money. Like we could away over printed but like that's, you know, that's also the best thing about us. And I think what Gary does a, a really good job is like, he's scared to death to overprint anything because he knows how. Back to the scalpers in demand. Like, we have to keep demanding the system and we can't overprint and like we're trying to like really fucking grow this thing and really do it for the long haul. Like, this is not an overnight rug pull. You know, we've been here for, for five years. So if we're trying to pull a rug, we're really bad at our jobs and you know, we're, we're, we're good humans that are trying to do the right thing and, you know, really try to break through with the hobby at large.
- [51:36]
Ryan Alford
Well, if you all do a hobby shop roadshow, you got to get to collector station. We are.
- [51:43]
Zachary Owings
I can do my own personal one. I don't know if I'll bring a crowd, but I, I can make my own personal pit stop.
- [51:48]
Ryan Alford
We have a cool store. This is. We are the hobby shop of the future. Experiential. 3,000 square feet. It's. I wouldn't look. I know I lived in Manhattan. I don't. I'm not like, hey, come down to my store, my 10 by 10 in the mall unit. No, it's a standalone building and so we're going to be the flagship store of South Carolina and we will.
- [52:07]
Zachary Owings
I like it.
- [52:07]
Ryan Alford
Always carry V Friends. So Zach, drop some deets where they can learn more, keep up with what you're up to, what the company, Vee Friends, all that stuff.
- [52:18]
Zachary Owings
Yeah. So obviously anything at Vee Friends is our main account. V Friends cards is also kind of a fun, I would say more human facing account of everybody kind of behind the scenes. So Veefriends v Friends cards are always great places. Also, we'll keep up with the most up to date information. Obviously you could follow Gary and then my personal social on all platforms is Zachary Owings. O W I N G S and the number two. You can find me there if you have any interest. B2B collector questions, thoughts, concerns, you can reach out to me there and we're going to be around. Hopefully you'll see our products in more stores soon. Topps Chrome is going to be June 10th. Sapphire is going to be July 1st. And then obviously kind of our comics, our super stickers, our coins, treasure chest product. You know, we're looking to kind of get out more into the world with those and so we hope you can find it at a store or online store or breaker, you know, near you.
- [53:15]
Ryan Alford
We'll do a follow up on the, the coins, Zach. Let's do that and like in, I don't know, the next 30 days, maybe we'll do a follow up with that release and talk more about it because we talk really broadly about the brand and everything going on. Hey, I really appreciate your time, love what you guys are doing, support it and look forward to growing our partnership.
- [53:33]
Zachary Owings
Likewise. Likewise. I appreciate it, Ryan. I've really enjoyed this.
- [53:36]
Ryan Alford
Hey guys, you know where to find us? The collectornation.com building a whole new ecosystem there. You need to check it out. New apps, new media as we bring you the best of all collectibles, trading cards, all the info and insight and let me tell you, few friends is right there. Don't, don't miss the bus. This is your warning. Go find some of those hobby cards in the V1. Like literally you can't find it. Like this is. It's coming out soon so you better buy it early. And of course I always love what Gary's up to. Appreciate Zach, we appreciate you for putting us in the top five of sports on Apple this week. We love you. We'll see you next time. Collect your nation.
- [54:19]
Podcast Host (Ryan Alford)
Thanks for tuning in to the show. Be sure to follow us on your go to podcast platform and catch the full video episode over on YouTube. Visit us@collectornation.com and follow Ryan on Instagram at Ryan Alford. Now get out there and collect yours.