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Collector Nation
Physical + Digital Collectibles is Future of Fan Engagement with Tareq Nazlawy
00:36:57
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- [00:00]
Tarek Naslawi
Life is life, and you can't always be at the game. Sometimes it's taking place on the other side of the world, but it doesn't mean that you give any less of a shit about it than somebody who's actually able to be there.
- [00:10]
Unidentified Supportive Speaker
Right?
- [00:10]
Tarek Naslawi
And having that artifact of that obsession is something that we think every true fan should have, and we think there's a lot of fun to be had in that space as well. And it can be product.
- [00:20]
Podcast Announcer
Welcome to the Trading Cards and Collectibles podcast on the Radcast Network. From chasing grails to calling bluffs, going inside the hobby. Are you ready to collect?
- [00:32]
Ryan Alford
Collect.
- [00:33]
Podcast Announcer
Let's get at it. Here is your host, Ryan Alford.
- [00:38]
Ryan Alford
What's up, guys? Welcome to Trading Cards and Collectibles here on the Radcast Network, your number one network for the best shows, the greatest hits and amazing guests. That's what I'm talking about. We're getting into the car today. We're driving. We're going fast. You know why? There's not a trace of anything around us but innovation. He is the CEO of Trace is Tarek Nazala. I'm trying my best there, Tarek.
- [01:09]
Tarek Naslawi
You got it. You're all good, man. Thank you for having me, Ryan. Appreciate it.
- [01:13]
Ryan Alford
Yeah, man. I love what you're doing. I. I love innovators, and I know it's hard. I worked with some of the biggest brands in the world in another life in the ad agency world and watched innovation come alive with smartphones and everything else. And I think the innovation you guys are doing with fandom meeting, you know, this collectibles meeting, attribution, which brands want. Hey, as a marketer and a business guy and somebody back in the hobby makes a ton of sense to me.
- [01:39]
Tarek Naslawi
I'm glad that you. You're picking up what putting down, Ryan, and you're. You're right about innovation being a hard thing. The stuff that we're doing at Trace, which I know we'll talk a lot more about, but it's born from quite a few years of thinking about, like, what new business models could look like in sports and consumer goods, apparel and footwear. This and collecting is a. Is very common theme. I used to lead digital innovation at one of the biggest sporting goods brands globally, Adidas. And to get companies that know that, like, there's another frontier to, to go and. And fight on to. To win tomorrow's business, it is quite difficult to get, you know, existing companies to do new things. So sometimes you just got to go do it yourself.
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Unidentified Supportive Speaker
Right.
- [02:21]
Ryan Alford
Yeah, you do. And I applaud you because, you know, it's tough because you have things that are making money today.
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Unidentified Supportive Speaker
Right.
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Ryan Alford
You have your tried and true. Like, I'm holding up. They're not Adidas or Adidas. I was expecting you to maybe say Adidas, because I hear that sometimes, too. We'll come back to that.
- [02:38]
Tarek Naslawi
Good on you.
- [02:38]
Ryan Alford
The Nike's here in my hand. So I do know the shoe thing, but I do know, hey, we're making money on this physical thing. And. But do you invest in potential, in what you know might be coming? I think that's probably the hardest thing for companies. I'm sure you've dealt with that at Adidas. And now doing your own thing, you know, I mean, like, and we're going to talk more, get to the nuts and bolts of trace, but just thinking, you know, theoretically on, like, innovation and stuff, you know, when and if someone reads it, it has half a brain. We'll go, that concept makes sense. But are consumers buying it, absorbing it, doing it to the level today that you know that they will. That's always the challenge, right?
- [03:18]
Tarek Naslawi
Yeah. I mean, you know, you can be. You can be right in theory, but if you're wrong with your timing, you're just wrong. I think, I think it was like a Bill Gates thing or something like that when he said, you know, if you're early, you're wrong. And that's one of the hardest things, you know, is trying to figure out. Even if you see the big idea and the big vision about, like, oh, you know, if people were sort of collecting live moments and they became identity signals which were readable by lots of people and whatever, like, that would unlock.
- [03:42]
Unidentified Supportive Speaker
A lot of value.
- [03:42]
Tarek Naslawi
But, like, you've got to prove, number one thing, which is, is a sports fan ready to do this mode of engagement? And can you something which is compelling and joyful and fun enough for somebody to participate in alongside the other things that are competing for their attention. And that is. That is not a trivial thing to try and achieve. But if it was, if it was easy, everybody would be. Would be doing that, you know. You know, I think what you said about tried and tested, especially like the physical merchandise side of things, you know, coming from a sporting goods brand, I have a lot of love for merchandise. Like, I've just moved house and I'm trying to get my shoe collection down to under 40 pairs, and it's hard. It's hard. So my wife, well, believe it. I've, you know, I compete with my wife for Clothes.
- [04:27]
Ryan Alford
I'll let it, I'll let it go, you know. Yeah, and I love shoes too. I'm a shoe guy. But I ought to, I, you know.
- [04:32]
Tarek Naslawi
40'S strong and I can't stop buying them either. It's just, that's, that's the thing. And I will never try and make a case that like collecting things digitally is a total replacement for things collecting things physically. But I think that we live in a world now where meaning is created more in the digital realm than it is in the physical realm. And the manifestation of the carriers of meaning, meaning in the physical realm, physical still is a very, very important carrier of meaning and it's also a very monetizable one. But like here's the challenge is that when people buy that pair of sneakers from wherever they're buying it from, most of the time people have no idea who that is.
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Unidentified Supportive Speaker
Right.
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Tarek Naslawi
Which is why most brands have spent a lot of time building up direct to consumer businesses because they want to understand how like that consumer what makes them tick, what they want, how to really maximize the value of that relationship with them. Data, of course, is at the heart of that. But you know, Nike is a consumer brand, right? If you're a sports team or if you're a sports league or even an athlete, like most of these businesses only just beginning to think about themselves as direct to consumer organizations. And they've grown up in a different world, right? They've grown up in a much more licensing oriented business where the relationship with the fan is, is usually managed or controlled by somebody else. Right. First the broadcasters, now like, you know, digital streaming, but merchandise, you name it, there's usually, you know, somebody paying a check to the rights hold to take over those rights and say we'll take it from here, we'll do product and distribution, consumer relationship management, etc. So that you guys can just focus on like getting the best players and scoring the most points and putting on the best spectacle that you possibly can. And that's gradually changing, right? Which is where the, that role of the, of digital in understanding who that fan is and where they're engaging because most of them aren't anywhere near the arena, quite frankly.
- [06:17]
Unidentified Supportive Speaker
Right.
- [06:17]
Tarek Naslawi
Most of us are consuming sports somewhere else. That's where the role of like the idea of like collecting things digitally in marriage with physical merchandise, I think that's where the opportunity really is going forward. So you'll never find me saying digital is a replacement for physical. Just go check out my sneaker collection.
- [06:34]
Ryan Alford
And you'll see that no but it has a chance to. And I think that's what you're doing with Trace is we haven't connected them enough. There's so much opportunity in the digital space that it isn't about cannibalizing, it's additive. And I think that's where the real opportunity is, is making it worth the addition, worth the time spent, worth it. And connecting those dots. And I would go a step further. They're becoming D2C companies, they're becoming data companies. If they're really smart. Yeah.
- [07:04]
Tarek Naslawi
What you're describing, I mean, if this podcast is. Is the heart piece and the other podcast is the headpiece, then. Then I. Then I totally get it. But in my mind, you're. You're bang on with that.
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Unidentified Supportive Speaker
Right?
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Tarek Naslawi
Which is data really is. Is at the heart of all of that. And as a fan, you know, and a consumer, we're a bit more sensitive about that than we used to be in terms of how we share our data. And we only really want that for the things that we genuinely give a shit about.
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Unidentified Supportive Speaker
Right.
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Tarek Naslawi
Or care about. We think a lot about when it comes to back to the heart side of things. Like, I can tell you're a sports fan, right, Just by looking at your desk here. I mentioned just before we. Just before we kicked off that I'm an obsessive about motorsport, about Formula one. I've not missed a race in seven years. Not a single one. I've only ever been to one.
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Unidentified Supportive Speaker
Right.
- [07:47]
Tarek Naslawi
Because it's kind of expensive, right. It takes a whole weekend. And, you know, there's sort of. The obsession for the sport is one of the only things that really genuinely competes with my actual marriage. You know, it's that level of religion.
- [07:57]
Ryan Alford
You're going to have to help me with that, too, Tarek. I look, smell, feel and act like someone that should be an F1 guy.
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Tarek Naslawi
Okay.
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Ryan Alford
And I haven't gotten into it. I can't say I've really tried. So it's more, you know, the battle of attention for a guy with four boys, four companies, not four wives, just one of those. And. And, you know, a love of college sports and NFL. So Tarik's going to be my buddy getting me an F1.
- [08:23]
Tarek Naslawi
I mean, I definitely think that there's only a certain number of rabbit holes you can live in, you know, like, there are some people who somehow seem to, like, know so much about so much, but, like, we have to sort of draw the line somewhere. I mean, for me, it did. I think here's an important understanding, like, in Terms of how you jump down rabbit holes. Like, it started for me with, you know, my best man from my wedding sort of coming over to stay with us in Amsterdam, and we were looking for something to, like, chill out on the couch and watch on a Sunday night. His wife wanted to watch Drive to Survive, and I was like, please, come on. We can. We could do better than that. By the end of that week, I'd watched the whole thing. And, you know, two weeks later, I had the sim rig with the wheel, and, like, you know, a month later, I knew all of the corners for all of the tracks, you know, then. Then.
- [09:09]
Ryan Alford
Sinker.
- [09:11]
Tarek Naslawi
Yeah, but when you're designing a sort of a fan or a consumer journey, there have to be these sort of upper funnel and mid funnel and sort of lower funnel pieces to that, you know, like how we catch your attention, how we sort of bring you right down the rabbit hole. And for me, like, that mix of art and in. In Formula one, and I'm an engineer by training. You know, I studied. I studied engineering at Cambridge for. For a few years. And so the technical side of the sport was a big deal for me. And actually, some of the things that. Some of the very first things that we did with Trace was to generate a piece of storytelling artwork about what's really going on in this race for. In a way, for basically for true fans to have and to own. And, you know, we wanted to go past the idea that, like, it just looks like a bunch of cars going around in circles over and over again, right? Like, what's. What' story here? Like the 10th here or a 10th there? Like, how is this interesting? And there are so many layers to what's going on in the Formula one race. Just like there are so many layers to what's going on in a. In a. In a college ball game or in a. Certainly in a baseball game, because, you know, and good luck, you know, piercing that veil. Tennis, like, broadcast has got limitations about what it can achieve in storytelling, because unless you know what you're looking for, you're just watching the physical athletes and objects moving around and trying to interpret what's going on, which is where the sporting data side of things has got, I think, so many awesome stories that can be elevated and used to actually capture that. In fact, you can kind of see it in my background here. I'm going to send you a couple of these things after. This is a story of a Grand Prix. It's the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, where Mercedes and Ferrari were duking it out to see who would finish second in the championship. And the story was unfolding lap by lap by lap by lap.
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Unidentified Supportive Speaker
Right?
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Tarek Naslawi
And so we captured that in a piece of artwork that people really dug because it really, really kind of told the story. And turns out you can collect that, right? Like, you know, if I had something to show for all of the races that I'd been following for the last seven years, it would be pretty cool collection. And the idea of like, being able to. It's not just about, like the athletes and it's not just about the. The teams and sort of the more sort of like the fantasy oriented side of like collecting, right. You know, I open up packs. I'm seeing what rarities I've got. It's not about my attachment to the player, it's about the game of collecting, the hobby of collecting.
- [11:31]
Unidentified Supportive Speaker
Right?
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Ryan Alford
Yeah.
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Tarek Naslawi
I think where we started with Trace was, well, there's another way of looking at this which is not just supply based scarcity of these things that have, like, you know, a signature on it, or there's only 100 of this particular player or 100 of this Pokemon with the particular foil behind it. You know, all of that stuff I think is very, very relevant. And I go for it. But there's time based scarcity, too. There's moments in time, right. Some of them matter and some of them don't. That's why we love sport. We turn up no matter what, and sometimes we get fed one of those, like, dramatic turning points in sporting history or in the history of the season or the history of the team. Was I here for it? Yes or no? That's what it is that we want to give to fans, and we want to turn what happened on the field with how everybody's feeling about that particular moment into something that you can have and hold and own and collect like stamps in your passport. Because we think that kind of true fandom is worthy of recognition. And the more you do it, the more you compound it, right? Like check your. All of the vaults of your collections, like every event that you've been part of, knowing that that information also unlocks the best of the sport. That's what Trace is about. I decided to segue us along. Ryan.
- [12:41]
Ryan Alford
I like it, what it is that we do. My next question was, and I'm still going to follow up with it for our audience. Tarek, simple terms, how does Trace work with, you know, I know you've been doing this in a couple different sports. Tennis. Now walk our audience through, like nuts and bolts, what Trace does and how it, it connects like this physical and digital and, you know, ultimately a fan engagement platform.
- [13:07]
Tarek Naslawi
Let's say you're a tennis fan and you're, I'll talk to you about like the journey effectively. You'll be like, you know, the Shanghai Masters tournament is coming up, right? So you'll be checking now, like, who's playing, who's not playing. You'll have just found out Carlos Alcaraz, sadly is not playing at the Shanghai Masters this year. And then, you know, the tournament starts and you'll be seeing how people progress and you'll be checking the scores of, you know, which match, etc. Until you start to get to the pointy and maybe you'll be back in your athlete, etc. These are the things that a fan will be thinking about as a major tournament like the Masters 1000s in Shanghai is happening. So where does Trace fit into that journey? Well, we're in partnership right now with the ATP Tour. So if you're on any ATP touch point, you'll start to see like, oh, you can now come back your player and collect this match. So you'll hit the banner and you'll come to the Trace platform and in the TRACE platform be like, here's all of the calendar events. Who are you backing for which of these, these matches which are coming up? And you'll pick your players. And what will happen is we will take all of that information and we'll say, all right, you picked this match and you're backing that player. And then what we do is we take actual data from the match and all of the data that all of these fans have put in about, like, who are they back in and fuse that together into one collectible for that match, right? And so now there'll be a record of what happened, who you backed, who everybody else backed, and we'll make that look super cool, right? And you'll, you can actually go check this out because on the 9th of October, you'll be able to go collect these things from, from the Shanghai Masters. So we take data from here and data that we collect data from the ATP and we use, you know, a variety of techniques, including some AI stuff and some manual creative stuff to fuse this together into something that you can have. And the more you collect, the more you unlock, right? So more like gamified streaks and predictions and things like that that we kind of know and love that change the outcome of what it is that you're actually collecting. And of course, there's a rewards component to that as well, right? So we've got some dope stuff from the tournament and you know, you're always in with a chance to win this or that, like the sign poster or the match balls, etc. But the whole idea here is that as I'm going through that experience, that everything that I'm recording is now compounding over time. And so my ID as a tennis fan, if you like, is growing and I'm constantly leveling up as in terms of like the proof of how much I really care about the sport. So that's. I don't know if that was simple enough for you, Ryan, but you tell me.
- [15:29]
Ryan Alford
Yeah, I mean, I feel like I'm a good simplifier. Maybe my wife would say I oversimplify, but it just gets me through life. When we watch sports entertainment or, you know, focusing on sports and you have this fandom, so you're into it and these moments come and go and you watch it, it's really bottling up that experience of that moment. And because, you know, our memories are fleeting, we remember, hey, I watched that, but I don't have any hard drive that keeps that necessarily. Maybe I DV art it or something. But this was a record of, and bottling up that moment for me, for not only memory, but for collection. And that was my takeaway.
- [16:05]
Tarek Naslawi
Honestly, mate, you should just do all my pictures instead of me. It really is that, right? Like, I'm going to, I'm going to put something on my screen here just to sort of like give you, give you an idea of, of what it is. And like I said, I can send you some more, more things like this afterwards. But you just described like, you know, I'm going to show you the graphic of what I got on this poster behind me. F1 is kind of that art and science mix, right? I mean, in other sports you take other approaches with more like player names and image and likeness and whatever, right? This is the story of an F1 race. So if anybody watched this race, they'd be like, oh, that's the Abu Dhabi track. You know, I know it, I know these corners. And they'll be like, oh, here's every single lap. And here's where Mercedes were going to win P2 in the championship, and here's where Ferrari was and here's where Alonso pipped Lando for P4 in the championship. Like all of these tiny little moments that, like, it manifests in something which looks kind of like a piece of, you know, data vis meets digital art that is provably scarce, right? Because after that event is done. You cannot, we don't make any more of them. You cannot just like right click and save them. They're all blockchain based, provably scarce assets. Either you have it or you don't. Either you were there for it or you weren't. And we think about this thing as like, you know, as immediate memory recall of what happens in that event. And even if I just want to like, whatever, stick it on my wall, I have it in my card collection. There's something, you know, visually arresting about it as well, which is. Which is ultimately collectible in its own right.
- [17:32]
Ryan Alford
Yes. Momento, digital or physical memento reminding you of that experience. It's a much cooler ticket stub.
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Tarek Naslawi
Yeah, it's like a virtual ticket stub for the 99% of people who cannot be there. Which, by the way, you know, like I mentioned, one race out of 100, I'm actually less than 1% of F1 races. You know, like life is life and you can't always be at the game. Sometimes it's taken place on the other side of the world. But it doesn't mean that you give any less of a shit about it than somebody who's actually able to be there.
- [18:01]
Unidentified Supportive Speaker
Right.
- [18:01]
Tarek Naslawi
And having that artifact of that obsession is something that we think every true fan should have. And we think there's a lot of fun to be had in that space as well. And it can be productized.
- [18:11]
Ryan Alford
Oh, for sure. I see it. Have you gone down the rabbit hole? Other sports? I know you're not doing it maybe like every day with an agreement, but I'm sure you've visualized or mind mapped or whatever you guys, do you know how other sports would play out?
- [18:26]
Tarek Naslawi
Yeah, we do. And I wish we had even more time to do that because, like, obviously success for us, like, looks like doing that across as many sports as possible. We're taking a good look at a couple though, right now. Cricket is one of them.
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Ryan Alford
My guess is focused on a lot of like. And look, I'm American to a fault, you know, like, not very proud to be an American, but I America to a fault. To think that my universe is everybody's, you know, like, that's an American trade, I think, like football, baseball, basketball, you know, so basketball.
- [18:57]
Tarek Naslawi
So. So baseball and basketball both. So if we are actually looking at those, we're in a couple of conversations, especially on baseball, because baseball, again, is one of those sports where what's really going on is a lot, lot more than meets the eye, right? Yeah, I think, like baseball Teams, as well as cultural symbols are, from what I can tell, are starting to sort of understand there's much more kind of like brand in the, in the symbol of the baseball team than just what's going on on the field.
- [19:23]
Unidentified Supportive Speaker
Right?
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Tarek Naslawi
Just like people are seeing in soccer, right? Like psg, fantastic football team. But like, they're a, They're a brand symbol, like a Juventus or a Barcelona. Like, they are bigger than just what's going on on the field. So baseball for sure. Why cricket, though? Like, what's the common thread? Like, I'm like, you know, motorsport, tennis, cricket, golf, combat sports. These are sports where, like, often you'll find a person who's obsessed with it but isn't surrounded by other people who are obsessed with it all the time.
- [19:53]
Unidentified Supportive Speaker
Right.
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Tarek Naslawi
And it's difficult to go to. Like, if you're a fan of one of those sports, the chances are of you being able to, like, just go down to the, to the baseball fields or to your college team or whatever is, Is a little bit lower because, like, you know, golf moves all over the world, tennis moves all over the world. So does F1. Cricket is, you know, most of those fans are in India, right? And you know, cricket is being played on in all corners of the world, although the audience is heavily concentrated in the subcontinent. And that's, I think, where we have the most to offer someone, right? It's like, where you can't be there. Just like, you're showing up for it anyway. And of course, there's a. There's a whole shit ton of data that we can, that we can play with there. But I lived in, I lived in Oregon for three years, right. And I definitely got my flavor for US sports. Basketball, for me, was my easiest entry point out of all of them. But college football, Football, I really loved watching college football. I found it more accessible than watching NFL. And there's no sport where this can't work. I think it's just you kind of go. You go first where your obsessions are the most close and where you think the audience is really ready for that. If you're telling me, by the way, that, like, hey, what are you doing? Like, you know, just. This has got NFL written all over it, then I'd love to chat more about that.
- [21:11]
Ryan Alford
I think, you know, being more in the physical, collectible side now and seeing just how much of a heyday the trading cards, you know, like, again, are having and raising, I think there's like some, I don't know, I keep coming back to sort of the purpose Here, you know, the minutes of any game come and go. The moments deserve to be kept. And it's, you know, this minutes, moments thing. Hey, I'm, I'm a marketing guy, dude. I'm like, I'm going down the whole rabbit hole here.
- [21:45]
Tarek Naslawi
I'm writing, I'm writing some nice it, I'm writing some notes.
- [21:48]
Ryan Alford
This is free advice. Steve Jobs paid a lot for it back in 2008.
- [21:53]
Tarek Naslawi
Well, send me the bill, dude. I definitely, I do get it. And actually like, you know, one of the things that we're exploring at the moment is that kind of mix of like, look, if we're here for it, we're here for it. Like, I should get something to show for that thing no matter what.
- [22:08]
Ryan Alford
Exactly.
- [22:08]
Tarek Naslawi
Compound over time, right? But there are some, like, there are moments. Like for example, in a boxing match, there's a certain number of points punches which are thrown throne, right? If every single one of those punches was collectible, some would matter more than others. You know, some's going to be a knockout punch or knockout kick or whatever. We could be talking boxing or MMA or whatever. In baseball, there are a certain number of balls pitched, right? Like, some of those matter more than others and some of them are more consequential than others. And so literally there is scarcity of moments. And you can make an event collectible, you can make like a tournament, a tennis tournament, you can make a tennis match collectible, you can make a tennis point collectible or a hit, you can subdivide the whole thing. And cultural meaning, if you like, can be assigned that, any one of those levels. And we have the technology to make those things digitally scarce and to connect those digital digitally scarce items with physical things. So I imagine that like, one thing I would love us to do would be to, you know, to make every punch in a fight a collectible, which you can get. Like, if you've been watching the fights like all season long, then every fight there's like 864 punches, right? And the most engaged fans will randomly be allocated these different punches. You visualize that with like the actual physical motion of it and the impact and all that kind of stuff. And some naturally have more rarity and value than others because they are from one athlete or another athlete. And they resulted in, you know, part of a combo or they were a knockout punch or whatever it is. And the ability to use like real time data to actually generate those items is here. And that's what we are using to be able to actually to do that. So yeah, there's like you said minutes to moments and I just jumped on it and we started to think about like not just this time based scarcity, but like every act in a match is potentially a collectible act.
- [23:56]
Ryan Alford
Love it. Tarek, you just said that. And I think for our audience, I think what's really interesting about this is when you watch sports from home, you get to enjoy it and your fandom is there. You got, you might be wearing your jersey, you might be doing whatever, but you don't really feel a part of the experience because you're just watching it. You're an observer and you don't necessarily might say hey, I watched that to your buddy or whatever. But it doesn't quite have the cachet of oh, I was there man, I was on the 40 yard line, you know, whatever it might be. You know what this does is it documents your fandom. And I come back to these moments that happen during something, especially when it's something iconic like you know, comeback or whatever you know, it might be and you watch it and oh man, I was there for that. I was at the game and I. But nobody goes, yeah, I watched it on tv. Like that's somehow some cachet. But you know what, if you've collected a moment and have a collectible digital or physical showcase of that moment, you're suddenly in the game. Like, like you are when you're there. And that's a really interesting thing here. That is the innovation, I think, I.
- [25:13]
Tarek Naslawi
Think you're, I think you're bang on, on being a fan has to be something which is more participative than just one way consumption of the content. And we are actually for this is why in Shanghai for the first time, we'll actually be fusing your participation in the thing and who you're backing into the actual generation of this virtual ticket stuff that we call a trace, right? And so you see yourself on that along with the community of fans who are part of it. And that's because, because that's, that's reality, dude.
- [25:44]
Unidentified Supportive Speaker
Right?
- [25:45]
Tarek Naslawi
Like the sport is nothing without the fans. It's not just about the action on Court, it's about who was all here for it. And so, you know, we've been listening to the fan feedback and bringing those things together. I, I think is, I think is, is really cool. I don't think anything will ever replace the idea of like being there. It's like going to church, you know, nothing will replace that.
- [26:04]
Ryan Alford
Like, but it doesn't mean the at home can't be better.
- [26:09]
Tarek Naslawi
Exactly right. And, you know, when I sort of think about, like, the missed opportunity here for me as an obsessive fan and also from business element, is that, like, you know, the reason I have this stuff on my wall right here. And by the way, like, people bought a bunch of posters of these F1 traces. Like, we have no rights to be, like, a merchandise company, but we tapped into something where people will be spending, like, 50 bucks, couple hundred bucks at the end of the season on things to have. And why do that is because I can't wait for somebody to ask me about this thing, you know? Like, I can't wait for it to be like, oh, what's that? It's like some kind of, like, crazy digital art thing or whatever. Like, what's going on? Let me tell you. Like, you know, that's the story of the Brazilian Grand Prix, where, you know, Checo, Perez and Alonso are, like, duking it out for the podium, and Aston Martin were, like, you know, through the roof. Like, I just want that conversation starter and to be able to sort of do these things in a way where it's not just like, oh, it's like a stamp on your coffee card, and, like, you know, everyone looks the same. It's like, no, there's story in here. There's memory recall in here. There's like, emotional investment in it. And you know what? Like, if that accrues to, you know, your fan id, which actually, like, next time you go to a game, gets you something special, even better than maybe you actually. We get a bum on a seat in an arena as a result of the fact that somebody's collected all these things from their couch.
- [27:39]
Ryan Alford
I mean, teams and brands should know who these fans are and. And take care of them, and not just to get their data to market to them. Yeah, it all feeds one another. When you give an experience or a memento or you take care of them, they're gonna stay sticky, you know? Yeah, it's like these are. Are. These are fans, but they're customers, and, you know, you got to treat them as such. And if you want lifetime value, if you want them to stay fans, then you're constantly evolving and improving that fan experience. And this is kind of that natural evolution. And I think of, like, you know, panini and Topps even, you know, like, they do the Panini instant. I think of that as sort of their. You know, the World Championship just happened yesterday. Whatever sport, football, basketball, they come out with these Panini instants. They release the next week. That's like the Cards from that game or something like that, which is getting at this. But this is like taking that and going like 1200 steps further, you know, in sort of the documentation of the moment in a more personalized way. It makes a ton of sense.
- [28:47]
Tarek Naslawi
I mean, that's definitely great to hear from somebody who spends all their time think about, you know, collecting stuff.
- [28:52]
Unidentified Supportive Speaker
Right.
- [28:53]
Ryan Alford
So I think you're, you're. Here's your challenge, Tarek. And, you know, this, like, friction removal, 100%. How do I make it easy? I think, think. I mean, nine out of 10 fans for whatever sport, tennis, cricket, basketball, football. I think hearing our conversation and hearing the, the not just theory, but the practice of what you're doing, it's like, sign me up. That sounds cool, but how easy can you make it? And can you do a retina eye scan? And I'm in. I don't know. We're not quite there yet, but you know what I'm saying? I think that's what it is. It's like I flip on the game. How do I not fumble around with a login and my password that I can't find and an app that doesn't. Doesn't want to load? And I'm trying to do this, but I know I just want to watch the game. I'm like, it's. How do you remove friction or keep. That's the key probably, to something like this.
- [29:41]
Tarek Naslawi
Yeah. Well, I mean, certainly it is. And the biggest friction is confusion, by the way.
- [29:46]
Unidentified Supportive Speaker
Right?
- [29:46]
Tarek Naslawi
So, like, even if, even if it's like, you know, biometric login and, you know, it's super easy from a sort of an app perspective, which people are used to doing. Like, used to having like 3, 4 apps open during a sporting event and whatever. It's still a new behavior, right? To be like, collect a match and like, so that the most important thing thing is to. Is to think about, like, just through this journey, the basics of user experience, design and what messages matter more at what moments. Some of them, you're more like digital savvy. Audience will probably also be asking, like, is this NFTs? Do I need to connect to Wallet? Do I need to do all of that? And I'm like, nah, you don't.
- [30:23]
Unidentified Supportive Speaker
Right.
- [30:23]
Tarek Naslawi
Like, this is. Yes, they're provably scarce assets and we are, you know, your, your fan identity is something that we do have on a blockchain because it's got to be verifiable for any time down the line that you want to share that identity with somebody and remain in control of your data. Yeah, but we don't have. This is not a crypto thing. It's not like a, you know, the, the friction in those experiences is really high. This is not a financialized behavior. This isn't. The idea isn't like turn up at this event, collect these things and then flip them, right? This is, this is about. Primarily proof that I give a, about this thing, right? So like if I give a, I just keep doing it because we want to know who those people are that actually do give a. That's the whole, that's the whole point. The 800 punches that happen in a boxing match sure make those tradable. I make that. Like as an engaged fan, I get, I get sort of some privileged access to things that may have more cultural meaning or more value. And like, of course I want the marketplace for those things. But that marketplace is there for those people who are like bonafide fans. Fans.
- [31:25]
Unidentified Supportive Speaker
Right?
- [31:26]
Tarek Naslawi
That and, and the reason we do that is because that's the signal that we are trying to celebrate and create. It's that obsession that the sports team wants to know about, right? Like who are the people that actually really we owe our cultural capital to and how do I not just by giving a little, also get a lot more back from that fan? But that's also who sponsors want to know as well. Like who am I really in front of, right? Who's if by association with this sports team or this sports league, you know, which, which fans and what can I learn about them and can I even acquire them into my own ecosystem as a brand? Who are they? And that's where the identity signal of like I genuinely give a shit about this thing. The basic premise of it.
- [32:08]
Ryan Alford
Tarek, it's really interesting and I think I love this topic and the innovation and the made up word, I don't know, just make that up. Someone's probably said that before. You know, nature of this, it's, it's really cool, man. And I think, I think you've got all the opportunity in the world. You just got to connect all the dots, baby. You know, I mean, I like it.
- [32:39]
Tarek Naslawi
We, we definitely are. And you know, there's, there's a special source in here about like, you know, as you say, just like memory is a big deal, you know, being able to sort of capture that energy which is currently going missing. It's a special capability and you can use that in a variety of ways. But you've got to stay true to the obsession. That's how we roll with it. You know, just don't mess that bit up, right? Authentic to the sport, authentic to the fan experience and everything works out from there.
- [33:05]
Ryan Alford
Tarek, talk to me in the audience about where they can learn more, keep up with what you guys are doing and get involved.
- [33:11]
Tarek Naslawi
Yeah, so well, I mean, firstly, you can find me on LinkedIn. Tarek Naslawi, as you'll see that right there. Trace, where you can find us at Trace Fan. That's where our website is. And you, if you go onto the ATP Live app, app, you know, if you see that or the ATP website, you'll be seeing traces everywhere and you'll be able to go try it out and collect the, collect the matches and back your favorite players yourself. So that's what I would love you all to do, go try it out. And we'll be reaching out for what you think and we're constantly like evolving the experience together with the fans.
- [33:41]
Ryan Alford
Trace Fan, Derek, I appreciate you, man. Thanks so much for coming on.
- [33:47]
Tarek Naslawi
Thanks, Ryan. Pleasure to be here. Appreciate it.
- [33:50]
Ryan Alford
Hey guys, you know, to find us Collectibles show, you'll see the whole video. We'll have lots of added commentary and visuals from Tarek's team at Trace. Really cool stuff. Trace Fan. Check them out. You know where to find me. I'm at Ryan Alford on all the social media platforms. Hit me up. Tell me what you like, tell me what you want to see, tell me what you want to collect. We'll see you next time. Trading card parts and collectibles. Collectibles show is where you'll find all of the channels and learn more about what we're doing. And ultimately, hey, we want to hear from you. You do case hits at Collectibles Show. I want you to send in your favorite polls of the week. And here's the difference. This isn't about just value. Hey, we want to see some ten thousand dollar hits. Had a couple of those myself a few months back. But it's not just about the value. It's about what you're collecting, what means something to you, to you share a story, share a video of you holding up the card that you hit last week that was your favorite player and you nailed it. So case hitsollectables show, send in those videos. I want to know the stories. We're going to bring them to life here on the show. We're going to do a segment each week once we get rolling and get some videos in where we share that on the show with us. We want to feature you on Collectibles Show.
- [35:05]
Podcast Announcer
Thanks for tuning in to the show. Don't forget to follow us on your favorite podcast platform form, and don't miss the full video version on YouTube. You can find us at www.collectibles show or follow Ryan on Instagram at ryanolford. Now get out there and collect your.