The New Card Shop Model: Inside Bleeker Trading’s Community, Experience, and Entertainment

Summary

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Collector Nation Podcast

Episode: The New Card Shop Model: Inside Bleeker Trading’s Community, Experience, and Entertainment

Host: Ryan Alford
Guest: Matt Winkelreid, CEO of Bleecker Trading
Date: April 21, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Ryan Alford sits down with Matt Winkelreid, CEO of Bleecker Trading—a standout example of the modern trading card shop. Together, they delve into how card shops are evolving beyond just retail spaces into vibrant community hubs, blending experience, entertainment, and business. Matt shares his personal journey from collector to shop owner, and offers deep insights into Bleecker’s unique approach to building community, the changing landscape of the hobby, business models, and the industry’s future.

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1. From Collector to Card Shop Owner (04:00 – 06:28)

• Both hosts share their origins as childhood collectors
  • Matt recounts the heartbreak of losing his original collection when his parents remodeled the basement. “My parents redid our basement, and then my cards went missing.” (04:02)
• Fifteen-year break, then re-entry:
  • Moving back to NYC in 2023 reignited Matt’s collecting. A recommendation led him to Bleecker Trading, where his rekindled passion soon turned into ownership.
  • “My current GM of the shop sold me my first hobby box...I went back the next day and then the next day.” (05:21)
• Path to Ownership:
  • Started working at Bleecker for due diligence, advanced to head of operations, and eventually bought the shop from the founder.

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2. The New Model: Card Shops as Experience & Community (10:52 – 16:08)

• Authenticity and Passion are Crucial:
  • “You gotta love cards and like ripping...If you don’t...I don’t know if it works as well.” (10:57, Ryan)
  • Matt: “If your heart’s not in it, your final product is going to be reflected in that.” (11:50)
• Hospitality Over Retail:
  • “We’re not a card shop, we’re a hospitality business.” (12:17, Matt)
  • Every customer treated the same, whether they buy a hobby box, singles, or a Squishmallow—emphasizing customer service and hospitality.
• Experience as the Differentiator:
  • “We’re an experiential hobby destination... a sports bar meets a man cave meets a cool hangout spot.” (13:50, Ryan)
  • “It’s a third place—not just home or work, but a welcoming community space.” (14:49, Matt)

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3. Events, Community, and Business Model (16:08 – 19:34)

• Multiple Business Verticals:
  • Core focus: Selling wax (sealed product) and singles.
  • All events (trade nights, card shows) are free: “We always want to put the community first...You never know who’s going to show up.” (16:35–17:34)
• Event Strategy:
  • Bleeker’s card shows are intentionally approachable, curated for both new and veteran collectors.
  • “We have space for 25 to 30 dealers—enough to whet your whistle but not overwhelm.” (18:07)
• Merch & Brand Power:
  • Bleeker has become iconic in the hobby (especially their hat).
  • “At Fanatics Fest...every fifth person was wearing a Bleecker trading hat.” (19:34, Matt)
  • Hints at upcoming merch expansions and possible new events at national conventions, but keeps details close.

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4. Industry Trends: The Evolution of Shows and Fandom (20:43 – 23:57)

• Contrast Between Big Shows:
  • Fanatics Fest provides “a little bit of everything...It’s for the sports fan, and cards have become a vessel for fandom.” (21:25)
  • The National is more hardcore and card-focussed, potentially overwhelming for newcomers: “If I was a fan of sports, but didn’t know about cards, I wouldn’t know where to begin.” (21:42–22:40)
• Blending Physical and Digital:
  • Human-to-human connection is irreplaceable; tech should augment but not replace.
  • “Technology is a tool...but when it comes to collecting, it can’t ever replace the human element.” (24:20, Matt)
  • The shop becomes a counter-trend to digital isolation: “Who you rip with matters.” (23:12, Ryan)

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5. Surprises and Shifts in the Hobby (25:03 – 27:57)

• The Hobby’s Staying Power:
  • Not just a fad—people now see collectibles as both hobby and alternative investment.
  • “People have really bought into the upside of this hobby, and how fast that has happened surprised me.” (25:14)
• Diverse Customer Base:
  • Pokémon and TCGs attract as much interest as sports cards; the demographic has broadened.
  • “Sports cards are like stocks. Pokémon and TCG cards are like commodities—Charizard can’t get a DUI or tear its ACL.” (01:39, 26:21)

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6. Crossovers in Collecting: TCG vs. Sports (27:57 – 29:44)

• Blending Interests:
  • Where collectors once stuck strictly to sports or Pokémon, now “people’s cases have a mixture of both.” (28:16, Matt)
• Sales Breakdown:
  • “55% TCG, 45% sports—but it ebbs and flows with release cycles.” (28:47)
  • Regional preferences also play a role (e.g., South Carolina skews sports during football season).

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7. The Dominoes of Licensing and Pricing (30:13 – 37:30)

• Changing Landscape:
  • The transfer of licenses to Topps is reshaping products and collector options.
  • Matt: “I love the downtowns. It’s sad to see that go...but there’s opportunity for a bright future depending on how Topps executes.” (31:22)
  • Concern about product diversity and loss of iconic Panini inserts.
• Retail Product Pricing Concerns:
  • Rapid price escalations for retail SKUs: “Mega box is now $150 bucks. A blaster that's supposed to be $40 is now $100.” (33:03, Ryan)
  • Discussion of possible factors: big box store limits, scalper behavior, and whether Topps/retailers can keep products accessible.
  • “Topps has an interesting conundrum...how do they provide entry-level products for the young collector?” (35:33, Matt)
• Possible Solutions:
  • Suggests stores and Topps encourage “buying smart”—education for kids on pacing purchases, not always chasing the biggest card.

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8. Cards as Entertainment & Education (38:36 – 42:24)

• Ripping as Entertainment:
  • “We sell entertainment. Ripping packs is entertainment. Selling singles—that’s building a collection.” (38:56, Ryan)
  • The true value isn’t always monetary: “If it’s got value to you, then we’ve done our job.” (39:17, Matt)
• Collecting Teaches Business and Social Skills:
  • Kids learn about negotiation, value, and how to interact with adults and each other.
  • “It’s a great way to get kids in, to interact, and to understand what's a fair trade.” (42:10, Matt)

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9. The Future of Bleecker Trading (42:37 – 43:16)

• Expansion on the Horizon:
  • Hints at e-commerce coming soon: “Those that want the Bleecker experience but don’t live in Manhattan...it’s coming your way.” (42:49)
• Ongoing Focus:
  • Continued commitment to community, possibly collaborating with other shops (like a live podcast at Bleecker during Fanatics Fest).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• (01:39, Matt): “Sports cards are like stocks. Pokemon TCG cards are like commodities. Charizard can't get a DUI. Charizard can't tear its ACL.”
• (12:17, Matt): “We’re not a card shop, we’re a hospitality business.”
• (14:49, Matt): “It’s a third place. You want those people to come whether they're going to buy something or not.”
• (23:12, Ryan): “As we've moved more and more digital, the hobby is really a great outlet...Who you rip with matters.”
• (39:17, Matt): “If it’s got value to you, then we’ve done our jobs.”
• (42:10, Matt): “As a hobby shop owner...I want to make sure everyone feels like there’s a fair, safe space for them to trade.”

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Key Timestamps

• 04:00 – Matt’s re-entry to collecting & path to shop ownership
• 10:52 – Owning a card shop: passion vs. business
• 13:50 – Creating the “experiential hobby destination”
• 16:08 – Community-first events, business verticals, and free trade nights
• 20:43 – Differences between The National and Fanatics Fest
• 23:12 – Physical/digital blend—the importance of community
• 25:14 – Card collecting as an alternative asset class
• 28:47 – Sales breakdown: sports vs. TCG
• 30:13 – Licensing changes, product diversity, and retail pricing challenges
• 38:56 – Ripping packs as entertainment, not just investment
• 42:49 – Bleecker’s future: e-commerce expansion teased

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Socials & Plugs

• Bleecker Trading Instagram: @bleeckertrading
• Matt Winkelreid Instagram: @mattwinkelreid
• Show Highlights/Clips: collectornation.com

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Summary prepared for listeners who want the full Collector Nation experience—in less time, with all the insights and community flavor intact.

Transcript

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[Matt Winkelreid]

I always say sports cards are like stocks. Pokemon TCG cards are like commodities. Charizard can't get a DUI. Charizard can't tear its ACL.

[Ryan Alford]

I don't say we can't compete, but we're not trying to compete on price. We're not trying to be overpriced or underpriced. We're just trying to, hey, run a business. Welcome to the Collector Nation podcast. Here on the Collector Nation Network. Whether you're chasing grails or calling bluffs, we take you inside the hobby. Here's your host, Ryan Alford. Card shops have changed a lot. It's not just display cases and inventory anymore. The best ones now are part retail, part content, part community. Matt Winkelreid, the CEO of Bleecker Trading, has built one of the most recognized shops in the hobby that does just that. So today we're getting into what actually looks like, what that looks like, from collecting to running a shop and everything in between. Matt, welcome to Collector Nation.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Thanks so much. Thanks for having me Guys.

[Ryan Alford]

Hey, good to have you, brother. I. From hobby shop owner to hobby shop owner now.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Congratulations is in order for you, by the way.

[Ryan Alford]

Yeah, I appreciate that. I know I didn't set out for that necessarily to happen. Was like, oh, when I was 25, I'm gonna own a hobby shop. But it's happened and now I own one, and so it's cool. I appreciate that, man.

[Matt Winkelreid]

By the way, same thing. 25. If you had told me that I was gonna own a hobby shop in my 30s, I would tell you. Crazy.

[Ryan Alford]

Exactly. I, like, really, Because I collected growing up, you know, But I. I really put it on the shelf, you know, some people put it on the shelf. I put it, like behind the Christmas sweaters, it. Behind the. The kid photos and the swimming ribbons when I was 12 or whatever. All that shit that we don't. Look, I was. It was way in the back of the closet. Yeah, I had to really dust that stuff off. My boys were late getting into it, so I didn't know if they'd ever come back. And I just kind of.

[Matt Winkelreid]

I have the sad story of my collection got thrown out.

[Ryan Alford]

Oh, no, I gotta. All right, we'll start there. What happened?

[Matt Winkelreid]

I mean, my parents redid our basement, and then my cards went missing.

[Ryan Alford]

Oh, geez.

[Matt Winkelreid]

I mean, yeah, it's one of those things like, who knew this was going to happen, right?

[Ryan Alford]

Exactly.

[Matt Winkelreid]

But I mean, I got, you know, when I was. I was definitely. I was a big collector when I was a kid. Right. And obviously, as you grow up and, you know, fads come and go, you hit, you get to high school, you know, you get new hobbies, you change hobbies. And, you know, it's. I took a 15 year break from the hobby. And it wasn't until I moved back to New York in 2023 that, you know, I got bored. I was investing, I was doing work, and, you know, I really needed another hobby, right. And golf couldn't sustain me all year round in New York. So, um, my younger sibling who lives in Manhattan was like, hey, you know. Cause I said I was, maybe I should get back into collecting cards. They were like, hey, you should go check out this shop in the West Village called Bleecker Trading. And I was like, all right. So I took the one train up three stops, went into Bleecker Trading. Mike, my current GM of the shop, sold me my first hobby box. I remember it was Brilliant Stars. Pokemon Brilliant Stars. I was, you know, I'm a Charizard collector. So I. Obviously, for the Charizard, he sold Me, my first booster box in 15 years. Felt instantly in love with the shop and the vibe of the shop. I went back the next day and then the next day.

[Ryan Alford]

You got hooked.

[Matt Winkelreid]

I got hooked because you know what, it's, it's so interesting, you know, being away from it for 15 years, you, you, you forget certain things about it, right? Like the nuances, like how intimidating it can be, right? Especially after this long period of absence and, and then you get reintroduced to it. And I think what ultimately got me hooked again wasn't just opening the product, it was going to the shop and having that community, having that vibe, having that, you know, that one on one interaction with, with Mike and the staff. And you know, I, I got instantly hooked. Hooked back into it ultimately to the point where I said to myself, I was like, what's going on here? What's going on in this industry? That I applied for a retail job just to due diligence. So I started working the register right to, you know, snowball effect happened, you know, became head of operations at Bleecker to where the founder of the company said, hey, do you want to buy this from the business, from me, right? Because we wanted to grow, we wanted to keep going. And I said, absolutely, I do. And here we are.

[Ryan Alford]

That's awesome, man. That's a, I mean that's the rekindling story. You know, one box rip. From ripping to flipping, it's like owning the business. I know, you know, rip it, flip it, own it.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Like, it's just, it's been so exciting and it's been, it's been such an amazing time in the hobby. You know, I think I got in at the right time, but like also it does, it's not just, you know, the, the financial aspect of it, but like it has given me a really great purpose, right? It's not just about moving product, it's about engaging with customers all the way from 10 years old to, to the 40 year olds, right? Like talking about cards. And it's a dream come true. And I've always, in every industry I've worked in and invested in, it's always aligned with, with my passions, right? And those passions have a common theme. It's kid focus, right? Because I never want to grow up. I always wanted to be a kid, even as an adult. But I've been very fortunate to, you know, to stumble upon this amazing place, an amazing brand with an amazing community and, and have been accepted, right?

[Ryan Alford]

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[Matt Winkelreid]

It's been quite a journey,

[Ryan Alford]

man. I do think I get your opinion on this. I think if you, you gotta, you gotta love cards and love like ripping and like to own a card shop and if you, you could do it for the business. Yes. But if you don't like cards and collecting on some level, I, I don't know, I, I don't know if it works as well because you're not gonna be able to relate and talk. Like I can talk to anybody that walks in now, you know, two and a half years back into it. Like really back into it.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Yeah.

[Ryan Alford]

So, I mean I remember everything I already knew and now I know all the new shit and you know, like no one rips more packs than me and my boys at home. And so like it's, it's authentic interest and then it's a business now so I have to take it serious and all that. But I don't know, I can't imagine not actually being into it. And I do know there are some card shop owners that could care less about it.

[Matt Winkelreid]

I think it's a very disjointed, I mean like, I think with any industry, right, if your heart's not in it, you're not your, your final result or the final product that you're providing, it's going to be reflected in that, right? Like you have to know what you're talking about, you have to relate to it. And, and being that we are a community, customer facing industry, shop operation or whatever, you have to be able to share that passion with them, right? Or else they're not going to convert into customers. Right. You know, one thing we always. Let's, let's talk about that a little bit. Right? Like one thing that we at Bleecker always say is we're not a card shop, we're a hospitality business. So everyone that walks in, whether you're buying a hobby box or a retail pack or a single or a squishmallows pack, like it doesn't matter. Like you have to provide that service, that customer service, that hospitality, that, that feeling of welcoming in order for them to one, want to come back to your shop, but two, want to get involved in the hobby. Right. So I think like with, across all industries, you have to want it, you gotta want to love it and you gotta, you gotta, you gotta have the knowledge behind it. So yeah, I think like that final product of what you're providing them is definitely going to be reflected if your heart's not in it.

[Ryan Alford]

I think the best stores today. And I really like what you just said, Matt. I mean, I think when I started Collector Station, I said the same thing. Like I didn't want a ten by ten, you know, strip mall. Like, I mean you've got the iconic New York City and in the whole, the hub of, you've got sort of surroundings like built in that make your, your shop, you know, world world famous, world known because of some of the city and then everything you've done with it here. Like I could, you know, I could go to strip mall, you know, whatever. No, I bought a building with it in mind where I was like, this has got to be an experiential store.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Yeah.

[Ryan Alford]

You know, so we call it, you know, we're not a retail shop. We're. Or a hobby shop. We're an experiential hobby destination. And that's what we're trying to meet. I mean we're two months in, but I think that's what we're building towards because we're selling experience because we can't, I don't know, say we can't compete, but we're not trying to compete on price. We're not trying to be overpriced or underpriced. We're just trying to, hey, run a business. But we're trying to make it to where you, this is where you want to come like that you want to spend time here and we have space for you to spend time time. And it feels like a sports bar meets a man cave meets a cool hangout spot where you can also buy packs and rip and hang out with friends. And so I think if you aren't leaning into that experience now, you, you kind of get easily forgotten.

[Matt Winkelreid]

There's a, there's a, there's a notion or, or a philosophy that we try to embrace at Bleecker Trading. It's, it's no longer just a retail space, Right. It's a third place. Right?

[Ryan Alford]

Yeah.

[Matt Winkelreid]

A lot of retailers are trying to navigate and master that. I think it's extremely Important that you position yourselves as not just a shop. Right. And you're already doing it. Right. You are a third space. You are a third place. And that is so important because you want those people to come, whether they're going to buy something or not.

[Ryan Alford]

Exactly.

[Matt Winkelreid]

We have the luxury in our industry to, you know, to have people keep coming, whether they want to trade with each other. Right. Whether it's at a Bleaker trading trade night or a Bleaker card show, which we have on the first Saturday of every month, whether they buy something or not is great. Obviously you want them to do that eventually, but they know they can come, do trades at our place and go home, but also engage with other collectors, hang out with the, with the staff, you know, talk about what they just pulled, talk about upcoming releases, what they like about the hobby, what they hate about the hobby, what's. What keeps them up at night about that. It's, it's not just getting them in there to buy and leave, it's getting them in there to buy but also buy into the brand, buy into what we're doing, buy into the community and become lifelong collectors. Because at the end of the day, it's all. It's not just a hobby, it's also an alternative investment asset class. Right. Like for some people, but for other people it's a hobby and that's great.

[Ryan Alford]

Is Matt on the business side for Bleecker? I mean, and chair, Adult chair. I'm not getting into numbers, but I mean, you're obviously in a high rent district, you know, high and all that. What are the, what are the business lanes for Bleecker? Obviously you're selling wax and you're selling singles. I mean, is that the majority of it or you got other events, you got other things. I'm just curious on the business side for Bleecker.

[Matt Winkelreid]

So we've. So right now our primary verticals are just our retail, right. So we're selling wax, we're selling singles, are. All of our events are free, Right. Our trade nights are all free, our Bleeker card show free. Right. We always want to put the community first in the sense of, you know, we, we want them to come to our events, feel like they don't have to, you know, pull out of their pockets to get in the door. Right. It's, you never know who's going to show up. So we, as of right now, our philosophy is our events are for everybody. Yeah, right. It's one of those things where everything's on the table, of course, for the future, whether It's e Commerce breaking, you know, event space. Rent out for, you know, we have art gallery showings, we've had Hulu events, we've had food tasting events. Like.

[Ryan Alford]

Right.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Like that's all on the table. But in terms of our core product of events, all free.

[Ryan Alford]

Yeah, that's. That's, that's awesome that you can keep it that way. Especially for you. I know like what that area is. People not even appreciate, you know, the, the reality to have a free event and in the district that you're in alone is a big. A big leap. But it just shows you the community that you're trying to build. I know people, whether they appreciate or not, they. Maybe they should listen to this. So they do, because. Right.

[Matt Winkelreid]

The day you, you. I mean, Ryan, you've been to a. A lot of card shows, right. You could know how overwhelming that can be, right?

[Ryan Alford]

Yeah.

[Matt Winkelreid]

300 to 500 tables. That's especially for someone that has never been to a card show before. So the ethos of the bleak card show do create a card show that was, you know, that was approachable for those that have never been to a card show before, but also experiential for the veteran. Right. We always have great dealers that come. We have our space in the back, the backyard, our lounge and our 94 space. We can have 25 to 30 dealers there. So you get. You can wet your whistle. You can get that appetite, you can make those deals happen. But also as a new collector, it's approachable and that's it. Right. It's one of those things where we want it to be approachable.

[Ryan Alford]

Talk to me about like merch and other things. I mean, is. Does that sell pretty well for you guys?

[Matt Winkelreid]

Well, you know, I know.

[Ryan Alford]

I mean, I didn't get a hat for this episode or I would have it on, but you know, Matt.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Well, I would have to do. I would have sent you one.

[Ryan Alford]

I know, Bill. We're gonn to work that out. I'll be rocking that thing every day.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Look, merch, like I said, everything's on the table. I don't want to reveal too much right now. We've got great things in the works right now. As of right now. Our hat speaks for itself. Right. It's one of the more recognizable hats in the hobby. And we've had. We've been lucky to have a lot of athletes wear it. We've had a lot of collectors wearing it. You know, we were at the f. We were at Fanatics Fest last year and I feel like I saw Every. Every fifth person was wearing a Bleecker trading hat, Right?

[Ryan Alford]

Yep. I know. I didn't ever pick one up, but I was there. I'm like, next time you come one's on me is how many do y' all do the national shows? Y' all do Fanatics Fest. I mean, y' all show both of those.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Yeah. So, you know, we've showed up at Fanatics Fest Since Fanatics Fest 1, we've got some really exciting stuff coming for Fanatics Fest. Three national, we don't have. We don't typically have a booth at national, but we've got something very interesting in the works for this year, this upcoming national.

[Ryan Alford]

Oh, all these secrets, Matt. We don't want to break them on, you know, one of the number one shows in the hobby.

[Matt Winkelreid]

I don't want to. I don't want to speak before, you know, before the dream comes true. Yes.

[Ryan Alford]

Okay.

[Matt Winkelreid]

All right.

[Ryan Alford]

We're still. Ink is not dried or set dry. I get it. I get it. Well, I'll be at both those, so we'll have to get up. We have a pretty big presence at the national, actually.

[Matt Winkelreid]

I mean, it's a great show, right? The national is an amazing show. And, you know, Fanatics Fest is also an amazing show. Right. They're two very different experiences.

[Ryan Alford]

Very different. I do want you to talk about that, Matt, like, because, you know, as we're talking about the stores becoming more experiential and less transactional, I mean, obviously there's transactions taking place, big transactions, but. But the experiential. It is quite the difference of those two shows and shows in general. Historically, you know, it's a lot of tables and you go there and the card's the hero, and it should be. But Fanatics Fest is a different thing, but I think it introduces some interesting concepts with experience at the show blended. And I wanted to get kind of your take over all on that.

[Matt Winkelreid]

I think with Fanatics Fest, you, if you go, right, you can find a little bit of everything, right? If you're going just for cards, that's there. If you're going for cards and the experience of getting introduced to different funnels of sport, it's for the fan, right? It's for the sports fan. And I think cards has become a vessel for fandom, right. In terms of what athletes you like to follow, what teams you follow. Right. You can capture a bigger customer pool for sports fandom into collectibles. Right. So I feel you get a little bit more at a Fanatics Fest when you go versus going to the National. It's very card focused and that's great. But I think there's. There comes a time when you think about exposing new people to the hobby. How do you do that? Right. Especially if they're, if they're fans of basketball, football, soccer, hockey, you name it. Right. You don't really know how to enter the funnel at the national. If I was a fan of sports, but I didn't know anything about cards and I go to the national, I wouldn't know where to begin.

[Ryan Alford]

The largest fire hose in the world.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Right. But for Fanatics Fest, you can get introduced to cards, collectibles, to tops, to, you know, different card shops, hobby shops, breakers, all that stuff like that. That's all the experience has now taken the forefront in terms of also collecting. Right. Where you got your pack, where you get your card, where you know, who are you opening with? I think that's a big part of it because people are yearning for that human to human contact, especially in such a digital world.

[Ryan Alford]

Yep. I do think it's an interesting thing. As we've moved more and more digital, the hobby is really a great outlet with which to sort of, I don't want to say fight against that trend because I believe that these two worlds can interchange and the hobby can actually come along, can come a long way. Is actually interact bringing some of the digital components and the connectivity that is that in technology allows. I think we have some room to grow there. Yeah. But the interpersonal and getting together and I love those said like who you rip with matters like. And like versus just going home and sitting in your closet alone. Like that's an interesting insight.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Are you ripping. Did you say closet? Are you ripping in your closet?

[Ryan Alford]

I'm not you. No, no, not me. I've always got, look, I've always got four extra rippers like right by my side.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Four boys sleep. You need a guy. Top load. You need a guy to help open your pack. Right.

[Ryan Alford]

Like, exactly. Yeah. But I, you know, of course I've got my few that I sneak in once everybody's asleep. But. Right.

[Matt Winkelreid]

You know, I think the technology piece, like technology is a tool. Right. Especially in this hobby. It hasn't taken over. It's become. It's more of a, A tool for people to understand the valuations of their cards. Understand like marketplaces and things like that. But when it comes to the human to human element of collecting, technology can't really ever replace that.

[Ryan Alford]

Yeah. 100%. What's been your biggest surprise as a store owner in the hobby? Like what's something that maybe you didn't expect. Or were you that prepared?

[Matt Winkelreid]

That's a really good question. I think I always had this instinct that this wasn't a fad.

[Ryan Alford]

Yeah.

[Matt Winkelreid]

But what surprised me was how fast that realization came as the store owner. Right. I think people have, let's just put our business hats on for a second here. The stock market, for example, is, you know, all time highs as of today, right. It's, it's, it's extreme, extremely expensive to invest in the stock market. This has become an alternative asset class for people to want to invest in, to home long, to hold long term. Right. Or to flip, you know, daily, like whatever your, whatever floats your boat. All cool. But I think people have really bought into the notion, the upside of this hobby and that's really cool to see and how fast that has happened.

[Ryan Alford]

Yeah, I, I just can't believe we can't keep sealed Pokemon on the shelves. It's like, and I mean everything's, everything's moves. But it's crazy.

[Matt Winkelreid]

There's, there's ebbs and flows, right? Like the, you know, valuations go up and down, right. I always say to, to a new parent that walks in with their kid and their kid wants to get involved, they're like, he doesn't know where. He, he or she doesn't know where they want to start. We always say, I always say sports cards are like stocks. Pokemon and TCG cards are like commodities, right. Charizard can't get a dui. Charizard can't tear its acl. Right. Charizard can't, you know, throw a bat, you know, get pulled in the first inning like Paul Scheme did in opening day, right? Like there's these little things that you can communicate to these customers to kind of give them a general sense of where to start and where to begin. It's amazing to see what the Pokemon market has done. And like, as an ip, it's a really strong IP and it's here forever, right. It started when I was a kid and I still have it, right. My first edition lifelong hold. And I think, where am I trying to go with this? It's become really amazing to not only see the diverse people getting into the hobby, but also seeing people that only collect sports cards now exploring of alternative categories, right? Because whether it's someone ripped a really cool box in the shop and they're like, oh, I want to, I want to. I remember collecting Pokemon as a kid. I want to get into that. Or you know, saying, hey, I want to get out of sports and transition into Pokemon. Where do I start?

[Ryan Alford]

How's been. How's the mix been for you guys? And like when you have trade nights, what's the blend of sports versus Pokemon? How do those communities interact?

[Matt Winkelreid]

Really great question. When it first started, like when we. When I first owned it, or at least 20, 24 when I first started at Bleecker. Let's start there.

[Ryan Alford]

Yeah.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Those that were into sports cards only brought sports cards. Those that were into Pokemon cards only brought Pokemon cards. I now see people's cases have a mixture of both.

[Ryan Alford]

Yeah.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Which is really cool. Whether they're ripping for certain cards or they're collecting only Mewtwo, only Charizard, only Squirtle, whatever. Right. It's. It's been a very healthy, diverse collection that collections that I see. And it's awesome to see that.

[Ryan Alford]

Do your sales sort of reflected too, like the ping ponging of both?

[Matt Winkelreid]

Yeah, I would say, like, we definitely do more. Slightly more TCG. It's very close. It's probably like 55, 45 in terms of TCG versus sports. But it ebbs and flows. Right. It's one of those things where, you know, Pokemon does four to six releases a year. Right. Sports, there's way more, I think, just also depending on the product that comes out. It ebbs and flows, but historically it's 55, 45. Probably.

[Ryan Alford]

That's about where we are almost exactly.

[Matt Winkelreid]

I'm curious, where are you guys at?

[Ryan Alford]

We're almost exactly there. You're there teetering towards 60, 40 right now.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Yeah.

[Ryan Alford]

I think football season starts. You know, like, it's big football. I mean, South Carolina's big football. We don't have a professional baseball team. So I mean, we. I'm a Braves fan and you know, we're near Atlanta, but it's not really an MLB state.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Right.

[Ryan Alford]

You know, and North Carolina doesn't have a team, so it's more football, football, basketball as far as sports go. So you will see that pick back up when football season. I know because, you know, we started probably because it was still in football season when we first opened right towards super bowl time. And it was probably 60, 40 sports. But right now it's probably 60, 40 Pokemon.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Right. I mean, like it's again, perfect order just came out.

[Ryan Alford]

Yep.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Tops. Chrome Football just came out. Like, so this is an interesting time to see how those levels could potentially change just this month alone.

[Ryan Alford]

Right, Exactly. How do. Speaking of tops, I mean, they kind of own the world now. And I don't, I don't really care. Like, I don't really. I don't have a dog in that fight. I mean, now as a shop owner, it's like, you know, we sell products and, you know, working our allocations and doing things like that. But like, I don't necessarily have a dog in the fight of the brand stuff. But I mean, part of me is a little sad to see some of the. I know Panini's still going to make stuff, but unlicensed stuff. Yeah. I just wish, I wish they could just figure out a deal to buy it so we'd have all of it licensed, you know, like, and maybe that'll still happen. Maybe cooler heads will prevail long term. But I mean, any perspective on the Tops versus Panini and all the license changes?

[Matt Winkelreid]

I think it's still early to really give my pulse on it. Obviously you want optionality.

[Ryan Alford]

Yeah.

[Matt Winkelreid]

In the marketplace. I mean, I love the downtowns. I love downtowns.

[Ryan Alford]

Yeah.

[Matt Winkelreid]

I think they're a really cool insert. Really great case hit. It's sad to see that that has happened, but, you know, there's opportunity for a really bright future depending on how Tops executes this.

[Ryan Alford]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I love downtowns and kaboom. So I'm like, right? Yeah. It's like Tops is going to make some cool cards. But I think I will say the

[Matt Winkelreid]

Kaiju insert that they just. That's going to come out is really cool. Really to see how that, how that looks in real life. I want to get my hands on one. But I think ultimately, you know, I always say in New York, there's optionality for different pizza, there's optionality for different restaurants, and you want to have that optionality, but it's just too early to say. I think it's. Let's just see what they do. And I'm really excited about Topps Chrome Football. I'm really excited about Bowman Basketball coming. I got to be at Topps Industry conference and what they showed us was really fascinating and really exciting for the hobby. Ultimately, the end of the day, this industry is growing. Right. And we should all be focused on how to keep people engaged in, in the funnel, how to keep them involved in the hobby and how do we make sure that people are getting value, how are they experiencing the hobby? Right. So there's like all these different things. So long as the industry is moving forward in a healthy way, I'm good.

[Ryan Alford]

Yeah. Well said. And I think that's back to where I don't really care. I mean, like what, what the brands are necessarily as long as they're doing right. The only thing that's kind of alarming that I hope is not like a tell is like, you know, Topps came out with very reasonable retail pricing, you know, and both basketball and football. But the nature of where we're at, it's all like 4 or 5x from what was reasonable. Like you know, Mega box is now 150 bucks. You know, a retail blaster box is, you know, supposed to be 40, is now a hundred.

[Matt Winkelreid]

You know, can I flip it to you? Like do you think that's a byproduct of the big box retailers not limiting purchases for people? Like from a scalper perspective, like I'm curious your thoughts on that. Right. Like you can walk into any Target and you can get as many blasters as you want.

[Ryan Alford]

Well not here, not here. You can only get two.

[Matt Winkelreid]

So they have limited you. That's great.

[Ryan Alford]

They've limited only two and came. I mean Kmart aging myself. Kmart's been closed for 30 years. Walmart is five. And look, two years ago like when we first got back into it, the boys, I got four boys. I'm not trying to go in there and scalp. I'm trying to go in there and buy a case of boxes because we're going to rip that weekend. And there's four of us, five of us including me. So I could buy as much as I want 18 months. Two years ago. Now though, they've handcuffed it like for the last six or eight months at least in South Carolina. Yeah. You can't walk out with more than two or five. Two or five at Walmart. Two. And it Target and they are actually enforcing it.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Yeah. So that's, that's great. I think so like this top.

[Ryan Alford]

So at least in here like the tops product pricing is not dictated because people are you know, scalping or buying all of it. It's at Target, a Walmart. That's not impacting. I think the Tops probably now. What I fear though is because they're now the only license holder. Yeah. There's a little bit of this spinning and even launch a product. Yeah. They are seemingly coming out with non licensed stuff. I think that been well communicated. But it looks like they are.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Yeah.

[Ryan Alford]

And so that's kind of like people are like wait and see on that if they're going to buy it. And so I think you have this. Well, what's Tops actually gonna. How many products are they gonna come out with? Like kind of like a little bit of fomo.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Yeah, I think it's it's all about product diversification in terms of the different SKUs that they come out with. Right. In order to ensure there's affordable price points, they may have to look into potentially making a retail skew that doesn't guarant, that doesn't have a chance for the super factor. Right. At the same time that like it's hard, they have an interesting conundrum on their hands in how they want to dictate entry level products to make to be available for the young collector, for the newcomer to the hobby. Right. At the end of the day, $150 mega box, that doesn't feel great sometimes.

[Ryan Alford]

No. That's what hobby boxes and baseball are. Right.

[Matt Winkelreid]

So I think like ultimately again, it's one of those wait and sees. Right. Because they just got all the licensing, like there's going to be some retooling and so long as Tops does a good job of putting the collector first.

[Ryan Alford]

Yeah. And how do you fault Tops for. I mean I was actually applauded the fact that their retail prices were very reasonable. Yeah, yeah. The market's just already, you know, kind of come up and I mean, look, you're right. I think it's a weight thing. We're here at the, it's the first Tops football product. It's going to have demand and I'm here for it. I'm good. The only reason I don't like it is because of the last thing you just said is the affordability factor for young collectors. But I also say, and you make a good point, I say this too. Like not everyone can afford a Lamborghini and we don't cry about the fact that, you know, you people can't afford a Lamborghini. No, they go, well you can afford a Honda and that's what you should drive.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Right.

[Ryan Alford]

And so people want to be able to go in and get stuff that has the potential of a million dollar card and they want to buy it for 20 bucks. Well, I'm sorry, that's just not reality, you know. Yeah.

[Matt Winkelreid]

At the same time. So Topps came out with those, those new collectors kits, right?

[Ryan Alford]

Yep.

[Matt Winkelreid]

We saw someone pull one open one in shop and they pulled a Wemby Auto, the like a five almost five figure card. So like in that product alone, which is an intro starting product there, the chance is there, Right. It's one of those things where you as a young collector and we do this all the time when kids come into the shop, they come in with their allowance money, they have $20 to spend they want to spend everything. We say, hey, why don't you buy one pack for $5? Keep or five, buy two packs for $10. You, you keep the other 10. Then you have something to come in next time you come in. Right. It's. It's also on the shops to educate those, those new, develop those newcomers to the hobby. Right. Don't throw all your eggs in one basket. Let's get it, get a taste for it, Learn. Right. And then keep slowly coming back. It's one of those things where you don't have to spend all your money right now. It's one of those things where you can spend some of your money right now and then save the $10 for something else.

[Ryan Alford]

Yep. And what I do and what I'm trying to do, like I'm trying to market rip and packs is it's you're buying entertainment that you happen to get cards with. Like, it's an entertainment. Like, especially if you're hanging out with your buddies or hanging out here. Like, don't get me wrong. And that's real money. And you can call it gambling if you want to, but I, I just think it's entertainment.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Yeah.

[Ryan Alford]

You know, so we sell entertainment. Ripping packs, entertainment. Selling singles. Now, that's building a collection, you know, that's smart collecting. Yeah. But ribbon packs is really an entertainment thing. Like, you don't go to the movies and watch the movies and then go, well, why didn't I get to take home Tom Cruise? You know, like, well, you paid for that entertainment.

[Matt Winkelreid]

And I think there's inherent value to everything you open. Right. Whether it's a base card or a case hit, depending on your collect your collection, and depending on what you're trying to get out of the hobby, I think if it's got value to you, then we've done our jobs, right?

[Ryan Alford]

Yes.

[Matt Winkelreid]

It's not just about the chase. It's about, you know, if you want a Jackson Dart card, but you pull a Jackson Dart base card out of a pack, like, that's, that's a win, right? Like that. That if you pull a Charizard Ex out of a pack, hey, you like Charizard? You can add that to your Charizard collection. It might only be $10. It might not be a 2K card, but I think ultimately it's the archetype of the collector that is coming in. You can foster that concept of even when you're ripping a pack and you get a base card of a player or a team that you like, That's a win.

[Ryan Alford]

100%. Yeah. Like, I'm a Clemson grad. Trevor Lawrence. We have. I have. I won't admit how big my collection is. You're going to have to come down to my store, Matt. I got a secret passage to my office where my PC is displayed in my man cave Pepsi door. You can hit the buttons. I'll give you the combination to hit. It opens the door and. Yeah, but more Trevor Lawrence. But to this day, if I get a Josh Allen, who is my favorite player or Trevor Lawrence, I don't care if it's base or not. I'm sticking over to the side. Like, you know, because that's what I collect.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Yeah.

[Ryan Alford]

Yeah, exactly.

[Matt Winkelreid]

That's.

[Ryan Alford]

That's how it should be.

[Matt Winkelreid]

That's. And that's awesome. Right. And you can say to yourself, I'm building every Trevor Lawrence car known ever,

[Ryan Alford]

or that I pull myself out of a pack or whatever.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Right, right. Like you can, you can. The entertainment part of is either ripping. Ripping for it or going to hunt for the single, which is also a great aspect of our shop. Because you've been in our shop, you've seen our singles bins there. Right. From $1 to $30. Going through the NFL bin and being like, I don't. I've never seen this Trevor Lawrence insert before. Yep, three bucks. Boom. Done. Right. Like, hunting for the card is also a game and experience in of itself.

[Ryan Alford]

Exactly. There's so many tenants that. And I love it for my kids because they learn business, you know, like the trading aspect and learn how to talk to adults at card shows. Like.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Yeah.

[Ryan Alford]

There's so many upsides to it. I think, you know, some people weigh in on the, you know, the negative parts. But I think for the most part, though, people are seeing it for what it is. It's a great pastime. It's a great way for people to learn and, and, and especially if you're flipping or doing deals and stuff, it's a great way for kids to. The amount of.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Communicate that are little business. Business people now. Insane.

[Ryan Alford]

And I think it's.

[Matt Winkelreid]

It's a great way to get kids in, to interact with each other. Right. To understand what's a fair trade versus not a fair trade. Right. Like you want to foster those values.

[Ryan Alford]

Yeah.

[Matt Winkelreid]

As a, as. As a hobby shop owner, at least in my, in my four, four walls, I want to make sure everyone feels like there's a fair, safe space for them to trade and they're not going to get taken advantage of.

[Ryan Alford]

Yeah. 100%. Matt, I know you got a Few things you can't talk about as we close out here. Anything you can talk about with the future of Bleecker and you know where things are going the rest of this year.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Like I said, everything's on the table. E commerce. So those that want the obliquer experience but don't live in Manhattan. It's coming your way.

[Ryan Alford]

Ah, there we go. Ecom City. Yep. Well, I'm coming to pick up my hat in person. I'm not ordering it online. I'll have it ready for you. We got to figure out some way to collab. I don't know what it is, but we're going to figure it out.

[Matt Winkelreid]

We should maybe host your podcast in New York at the shop.

[Ryan Alford]

That's what we need. There it is. I love it. Maybe we do that over the fanatics fest week or shit. I might just make a special trip. Something to where it's not so crazy. Maybe. I don't know. Matt, drop some deets on yourself. Social deets for Bleeker, all that stuff.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Appleeer trading for Instagram at Matt Winkleread on Instagram.

[Ryan Alford]

Happy to be here, Matt. It's been a pleasure, man. Great start to build a relationship. I hope we can do a lot of fun things together. I love what you're doing with Bleecker. It's a great brand, it's in good hands and you got my support, baby.

[Matt Winkelreid]

Thanks, Ryan. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

[Ryan Alford]

Hey guys, you know to find us the collectornation.com you'll find the full episode highlight clips, anything and everything related to Collector Nation. We're here to support you in the hobby and we do it by bringing you the best, the brightest. Bleaker trading. Unbelievable shop. Get to New York and see it. You'll thank me for it. I'm telling you, it's an experience unto itself. And Matt's a great guy. He'll take care of you there. And we'll take care of you next time here on Collection. Thanks for tuning in to the show. Be sure to follow us on your go to podcast platform and catch the full video episode over on YouTube. Visit [e-mail] and follow Ryan on Instagram. RyanAlford. Now get out there and collect yours.

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