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Collector Nation
The Next Collectibles Boom Won’t Look Like the Last One and THIS is Why | Shivam Patel
00:48:02
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- [00:00]
A
These corporations, such as the Pokemon Company International, they love scalpers. My advice is kind of look where no one else is looking and apply the logic of whether or not that item has multiple layers of collectability. So if it's very difficult for the average individual to collect, or if it's difficult for a collector to collect, that's kind of like something to pay attention to.
- [00:23]
B
Welcome to the Collector Nation podcast on the Radcast Network. From chasing grails to calling bluffs, we're going inside the hobby. Are you ready to collect? Let's get at it. Here's your host, Ryan Alford. Hello, and welcome to Collector Nation, here on the Collector Nation Podcast Network. We appreciate you for tuning in wherever you are, whenever you are. We never know when people are listening. You can be whenever you want, however you want. New media at its best. We're not linear, you know, that's why I love it. That's why I love content, and that's why I love this space, especially because I get to talk to cool guys doing some fun shit. And we got one today is Shiv Patel. He is. You know, he didn't want me to call him a Pokemon expert, but I think he might be a Pokemon expert, but he is. We're going to call him a master collector of all things fun, engaging, and he does a lot of storytelling himself on social media. What's up, Shiv?
- [01:24]
A
Hey, how's it going?
- [01:25]
B
Hey, man. Blessed to talk about collecting and guys like yourself doing fun things. When I was a kid growing up, I collected everything, especially car sports cards and lots of, like, random McDonald's one off merchandise. And so now if you'd told me, you know, 30 years later, I'd be getting to talk and do things and actually have a business out of it, I wouldn't have believed you.
- [01:51]
A
Yeah, likewise. I. I couldn't tell you the same either. I would be baffled.
- [01:55]
B
Yeah, it's a good time to be alive. And new media is awesome. We've got this democratization of being able to get the voices out there and tell stories, and you're definitely adding a lot of value to the overall collected space, collectible space. And I know collectors across Pokemon appreciate that, and I enjoy watching your international stuff. That's a new perspective for me. So I'm excited to talk about some of those things today. Well, I mean, what's happening when, you know, like, what's. What's happening in the collectible space? Like, what's. What's the state of the union?
- [02:34]
A
I mean, like, there's a There's a lot of interesting things that are going on, right? Like, you have Pokemon and just collectibles, all in all, just like, spiking in values across the board with just anything, anything is going up in value. You have Logan Paul selling off his Pikachu illustrator through Golden. You have people just in the constant conversation of whether or not is this space a bubble or not. Especially when you have, like, people like Ken golden, you know, saying that, hey, like, this is. This is the space to be in for the next five to 10 years. Then you have a lot of institutional foundations, financial institutions coming into play. There's just a lot of interesting things that are going on. And I mean, you know, like you said, it's. It's. It's a blessed time to be alive. And it's just a very interesting timeline that we're in right now where, you know, we can have a career through collectibles.
- [03:24]
B
Yeah, it's interesting. And, you know, I got brought back in. I had four, you know, four boys coming up that got into Pokemon, got into sports cards. And so, you know, I started pointing my network and, you know, into this and seeing the business opportunities. And also my love and passion for it got rekindled. I didn't actually experience the bubble, if you want to call it, of sort of the. The, you know, 2020 and everything with that. But it feels different according to people that I talk to with what's happening now. It's. It seems more sustainable, but it's hard not to. You know, you see the jumps in prices, you see the cards selling for what they are. So there's natural skepticism. But where do you fall on this pendulum?
- [04:13]
A
I think I agree with that sort of sentiment that you've received so far where, like, this one feels a lot more organic in nature. Like, sure, like, some people will be skeptical about it, but this is. This feels a lot more organic versus 2020, where 2020, you know, you have Covid. You have so many things that are happening in place where everything just spiked tremendously in value. And then it just came down almost just as quick. But then, you know, prices kind of sustained itself. And I think that's what gave a lot more collectors and a lot more people on the outside looking in a little bit more perspective in regards to whether or not they want to participate in this space in that aspect. But, yeah, like, I. I agree with that sentiment entirely.
- [04:51]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's when you start thinking, and I've heard and I've had. I mean, whether digitally or in person, you Know, the rolling of the eyes and, and you know, thinking about cardboard as an asset. But I think I had Gordy Bonker on last week, the week before, and he does a lot of vintage baseball. And you know, the people that are like, oh, you know, that piece of cardboard. Well, I mean, what's artwork? I mean, you know, artwork is just paper with art drawn on it. You know, that has value in the millions, depending on what it is, or hundreds or, you know, we're, we're a, I don't know, we're a nation certainly in a world that collects things and there's scarcity and rarity and value that gets put on these things, whether they're cardboard or pennies or, I don't know, Mattel dolls. And so I think that perspective's a little lazy. But you know, it's just. Do the rich guys get, get bored and then pull out? I don't know.
- [05:51]
A
I don't think they ever get bored. I mean, I think for them it's like, you know, it's a way to relate. It's like you said, the whole, we're a world of collecting and I think since the dawn of human beings, it's sort of our way of being able to connect and relate with each other. And I think for the most part, like, even like someone who, like there might be a wealth based gap at the end of the day, we can relate with one another through collectibles. And I think that's just sort of how the wealthy guys participate in this space. They want to relate to what we're doing and we can relate to them in that kind of fashion. It's more of like a humanizing thing.
- [06:24]
B
Yeah, I think you're right. I think what's been the most fascinating thing for me, Shiv, is coming back into it and being a tech forward guy. And I consider myself an innovator. You have this weird dichotomy of there's innovation happening in the hobby and then you go to a card show and everybody's still using a spreadsheet and a pad of paper. And it's like, I know that's a left turn from where we were, but I feel like it's all related a little bit to the changing industry, you know, where, I don't know, the old school card show guys and hobby guys versus the new school of tech and innovation and all these things. How do these worlds come together? And it seems like there's still a lot of, a lot of blue ocean.
- [07:12]
A
Yeah, I mean like there's, there's a lot of, of of that. I mean, if I were to go to the national, you're gonna definitely see a lot of guys with pad and paper and, you know, they're just going through and writing everything down. And then you have, you go to like a Pokemon card show, for example. The newest thing is vendor POV style content. And it's sort of a way to kind of, you know, one, act as security, but two, it allows for them to kind of keep track of every interaction that they're having. And it's very multifaceted because then they can also post that as well. So, like, they're getting every benefit of that. Like, it doesn't hurt to have that.
- [07:46]
B
Yeah. What do you think about, like, as far as, like digital collect collection management and scanning and, you know, that whole gamut of innovation?
- [07:54]
A
I like it. I think. I think that space is great to have. I think it's more additive. I don't think it's ever subtractive. So any I'm. I'm all about if it's additive to a space or if it's additive to something, then that's always a good thing, as long as it's not subtractive. So I think like applications like card Ladder or you have collector, like these applications that basically take an account of what your tangible asset portfolio is. I think those are cool things. I think that's kind of awesome. It makes like, the more. The more we do this and the more time progresses and the more value is attributed to these sort of collectibles, then the impact that those collectibles will have on an individual's life. Then I think it's great to have things that kind of keep track of those types of things.
- [08:37]
B
Yeah. And I mean, I think those things seem to be getting better and better and make logical sense to me because that was the first thing when I came into the hobby. And, you know, full, full disclosure here. Ludx is a partner of ours and one of, you know, the leaders in scanning the cards. But, you know, the first thing I did when I got back in, I'm like, okay. I know they don't go looking in Beckett magazines anymore, you know, for like, sports cards. I was like, surely there's an app for that. And there was. That's when I went down the rabbit hole this months, 24 months ago. And because that always just made the most sense to me, you gotta scan your card, you know what you got. And you might know that, you know, general value and all those things. It's like. And it's good. But I don't know, there's also this fine line shiv of everybody's a dealer now because everybody has so much data, right?
- [09:28]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [09:29]
B
Not that you don't want anyone to be uninformed. I'm not saying I want the 80s period where the only the dealers had all the power. They were jerks at their sports card shows, but it is sort of like, okay, well if everybody expects 100% of TCG, who's making any money?
- [09:46]
A
Yeah, yeah, everyone. Everyone knows what they have.
- [09:48]
B
Yeah. And that's good. But it's. I don't know, I find that sort of funny. There's also the bubble of the card show versus the everyday collector because those seem to be two audiences. Let's talk Pokemon. Appreciate your thoughts there. Just generally I always like to riff a little bit on things that as I've come back in the last couple of years. But what's it does that are different, the audiences are different. But you know, my boys and I mean we're sports guys, but like we're into Pokemon. I love the artwork and I love, you know, like the affordability factor versus, you know, you know, five or ten bucks for a pack versus 30, 40, 50, $100 a pack that some of the sports stuff gets into. And I know you buy vintage Pokemon that can get in that area, but what's the, the state of Pokemon with everything else? I mean, is it healthy?
- [10:41]
A
Seems like so, yeah. I personally think that Pokemon is an extremely healthy place. Pokemon is a type of company that has always kind of printed to demand. Sometimes they don't, and pretty much creates movements such as this right now. Like in the last like year and a half or so, Pokemon hasn't really printed to demand. And when that kind of happens, the entry point for most collectors to be able to get what was accessible product becomes extremely difficult. And when that kind of demand gets bigger and bigger and bigger, then it creates much more of an upward trend as far as this hobby goes. So that's why I think it's a little bit of an organic thing. At the end of the day, whenever Pokemon does slow its role in terms of production, then value does spike. And that did happen back in like 2019, around that time. Like right now, though, I will say it's even healthier because for the collector that wants to be able to get products, it's tough. But just recently I know that in Morrisville, North Carolina, they just leased out a brand new printing facility for Pokemon. So like now that might make, you know, the availability of Pokemon products a little bit easier for the person. So like, I think, I think at the end of the day it's like very, very healthy, in my opinion.
- [11:54]
B
Yeah. And I mean, what do you, I mean, just jump right in. Like, it's, it's interesting, it's in the same track, but it's like how do you feel about the, the scalping, if you want to call it that? I mean, I, I personally don't call it that. I'd call it more just entrepreneurial behavior on some level. But where do you fall on that?
- [12:16]
A
I think scalping is kind of a byproduct of the American condition right now. I think it's, I think people, I think wages aren't really going up as quick as they should or they're not as high as they should. So I think that's like a reason as to why people scalp. I also believe, and this is a hot take that I have with most of, with, with some of my friends who also agree with me. I think these corporations such as the Pokemon Company International, they love scalpers. I think that. And the reason why is because scalping is a direct indication of demand and value behind their brand. And so if, if everyone could get the same thing, then there's really no value behind, you know, that specific item or that brand. It kind of dilutes the brand in that kind of fashion. If everyone can get it, then there's no like, want behind it. And so I see that. And then I also see the side of like the average person who like, wants to be able to buy like MSRP related product, but it's never on shelves. So they're, they're ending up having to spend, you know, quite a bit more, just be able to get the products that they want. So like there's both sides of it, but I'm, I don't really think it's an entirely a bad thing.
- [13:31]
B
Yeah, it's very insightful take, especially on the brand thing. You couldn't be more right, because when there's demand like that and the empty shelves, it does increase brand value and demand. And it's, it is an interesting slippery slope though of both sides of, you know, I understand it, but they're also, you know, okay, the guy comes in and he takes all 20 boxes. Okay, well 19 other people could have gotten them. You're still not going to have enough for, you'd still have the complaining, you know, so it's like I haven't ever been in WALMART and seen 400 boxes get taken out, it's usually, you know, 20 or 30 boxes, which is, you know, might seem excessive, but it's not, it's not so much. I think the question really becomes more to your point at the very beginning, which is the printing, you know, are we ever going to get to the point where that just goes away because there's just too much. Are they going to allow that to kind of continue?
- [14:34]
A
I don't think it'll ever continue just because like there, there's only like a limited amount of printing facilities available. And yeah, Pokemon, if they wanted to, they can, you know, build from the ground up a brand new facility to print more. Like that process is still relatively slow, I think. I think with that plus the fact that there's, that there are. And I think that, and when I say they are, I know that there are institutional fundings, like financial institutionals that are coming into this space that are throwing in lots and lots of dollars and money into this space. I think that's going to create a. Either one or two things. I think it can basically grow prices even organically. As long as they're not pushing, you know, pushing down on the gas pedal hard enough or if they push down hard enough, it can go pretty parabolic. But yeah, I just, I just think that like, for the average consumer for being able to collect collectibles, it is tough and it is, you know, if you're there waiting in line, trying to get something, not everyone is going to get something. But like that's, that's with anything collectibles related, like not, you're not going to have, you're not going to always have what you want. And like what's, what makes it difficult in the Pokemon space is that Pokemon, when they first came out in the United States, the tagline was gotta catch them all. And you know, people took that very, very seriously and very, and to heart. But like Pokemon themselves stopped using that tagline within a couple of years of its release here in the United States because like they knew that you can't really catch it all and that. And like, even in the video games you can't catch it all. So like, people in Pokemon should also like understand that as well that you just can't catch it all. And that's like the beauty of it, right? Like being able to work hard, being able to grind it out, to be able to get the one or two things that you want. There's merit to that. And I think that, you know, then there's like the aspect of like you have a Lot of people who feel like they're entitled because, like, they feel close and personable with the hobby that they have and the joy that they have with it. There's a lot of, you know, discussions that we can have on that. Yeah.
- [16:29]
B
And as you were talking, it reminded me, I've had this out a few times. If it was as available as these people want, they wouldn't want it as bad. You know, talk about meta being a little meta. But it is, it's true. Like, if. If it was. If there were 400 boxes on the shelf every time you went in the store, you wouldn't want it either, you know, so the. The scarcity, on some level, I think we can argue whether it's scarce. I wouldn't call it scarce, but the level of scarcity drives that interest from the person that's complaining about it not being on the shelf at retail.
- [17:09]
A
Yeah, Like, a great example like, in 2016, Pokemon had created this set called XY Evolutions, and to this day, that is the most successful set for Pokemon of all time. Because at that same time, the application Pokemon Go was released, and Pokemon Go became a cultural phenomenon across the globe as far as applications go for people to play on their phones and to walk and whatnot. And so that set was supposed to go out of print. Most normal sets do go out of print, but they were still printing that set even in 2019. You could go to GameStop or you can go to most retailers. And that set was so overprinted that instead of being able to buy a booster pack for like a little over $4, they were discounting those packs at $2 a pack at that time. And then when the Pokemon boom happened in 2020, booster boxes that were selling for $80 or so, like, that set ended up selling for a booster. A booster box. I sold a booster box that, that next year for $1300. So, like, again, people don't attribute value to things, just like you said, unless they really want it. And at that time, you know, Covid happened, Logan Paul came into this space, a lot of things kind of came into the space where, where people were wanting more of it. And that's. That's.
- [18:30]
B
That.
- [18:30]
A
That's that's just like, you know, an example, you know, as to what you said.
- [18:33]
B
Yeah, it's a fascinating. And I think there'll be, you know, books or ebooks or guides or audio, whatever the hell that in 15, 20, 30 years, you know, you could already write one on what's happened to date. But from a brand marketing Demand. Luxury is not the right word, but like, I mean as a, I'm a, I guess a clinical marketer, I've been marketing for 25 years. And so there's a fascinating, you know, charts that can be written up on this of, you know, scarcity drives demand, demand drives awareness and all of those things sort of working together towards creating the epicenter of where we are today of, you know, all this demand, seemingly not enough retail availability and Facebook marketplace littered with Pokemon product.
- [19:29]
A
Yeah.
- [19:31]
B
Tell me you use, do you use Facebook Marketplace?
- [19:35]
A
I haven't. I did when I first came into this hobby and then back in 2019 and then I was on there for like maybe like a few months and then I was like, nah, this ain't it. I think the, the way I've been participating in this space is predominantly through Instagram. And I mean like it's, it's basically the same thing you could say because.
- [19:54]
B
DMing by meta listing stuff or DMing friends or partners. And now I'm sure you got enough connections that if you come across a deal or whatever, if you're brokering something, you just kind of slide into the DMs.
- [20:05]
A
Yeah, yeah. I mean like, that's just how it is. I mean like I don't necessarily have to use ebay. I can if I wanted to, but like most deals that I personally do nowadays, I don't even need any sort of marketplace for that matter. It's just through Instagram now. Do I buy things from these marketplaces? Absolutely. I'm on ebay all the time. I'm looking at things all the time. Being able to find things, things that stick out, things that are unique for me as a collector to buy. When it comes to memorabilia with Pokemon collectibles with other anime based intellectual properties, I'm always looking for things that I want to buy because I'm always looking to increase my positions in other areas.
- [20:43]
B
So for someone listening, talking to Shiv Patel, he is a content creator, Pokemon expert. Whether he wants to be or not, I think he is the someone listening. They're, they're pokey curious. Pokemon curious. What's your advice to them of how to entry into this or things to look at?
- [21:09]
A
I mean it. I think the biggest thing is getting your 10,000 hours in. Kind of like watching what people are doing, consuming content, asking questions, staying off on the sidelines, being very, very open minded and then understanding how adverse you'd like to be as far as risk goes. Like, I think that's like a big thing, but I think like that's just, that's just how it is. Putting your 10,000, 10,000 hours in. If you really enjoy it, then participate, collect, kind of like what you want to collect. And like, I think that's just like the biggest thing. My biggest thing was that in the beginning I was ripping packs. And as a content creator like that, at that time, that's the only way people were making content. And so like within a month I was like, I just spent $700 just to try and create a video that didn't generate me any revenue. So at that point I was like, I'm going to take it upon myself to kind of create content that's more educational, more informative. Where, where I'm not talking about the, the, the, the degeneracy side, the degeneracy side as far as ripping packs goes and just creating a informational way of being able to collect. And so like not necessarily ripping packs, but maybe just buying the car that you want is the better avenue and that's that. That avenue is usually the more financially safe and financially responsible route. Granted, this entire space is kind of predicated on the gambling nature of being able to open something.
- [22:39]
B
So like, yeah, at least you still, I'm about to say, at least we got to at least acknowledge it. It is. Yeah, yeah. But I do tell people, they kind of go down that route. I'm like, yeah, but the slot machine, you pull it 500 times and spend the money and you lose, you win nothing. And then, yeah, scratch cards, you know. Yeah, you might, you're playing for a lottery of five grand and 98% of the time you win not a dollar, you know, so with trading cards you do have, you know, 20, 30% of the value. You know, I don't know what the average is. It depends on the product, but at worse, and something to collect or keep onto. And if you chose, if you choose to just be a hit got, chase her and throw everything away, well, that's your thing. But a lot of people don't. Most people don't. And so I think that's where the, the difference lies. Right. You. I'll tell you what though, a few things and I'm kind of leaning into this, so follow me here. Shiv pack opening is entertainment. And it, I know that that sounds like what a no shit thing to say, but I don't know that we talk about it enough like that, you know, like back to scratch card. I think that's more of a true compulsion of like, I'm going for the big money I gotta win it. And yes, you want to hit a big card, but there's just the. For me. And again, I spent 18 months ripping packs with my boys. That's how we got back into it, is to learn and to know. And it went through a lot more to 700. About 70 grand, probably. And literally. But it was entertainment and time with my kids and, like, we enjoyed it and yeah, we wanted to get hits. And it was hit chasing, but it was entertainment. And, you know, that's kind of what I'm leaning into at my shop here. Collector station is like, not shying away from that. Like, come rip some packs and have some fun.
- [24:40]
A
Yeah, I think. I think overall, like, there is a. There's a suspense factor into it. There's a thing. Thrill of being able to open up something. And if you're. If you understand your relationship, your relationship with being able to open up packs, and I think that's just like the healthiest route to go. Like, there's people out there that aren't necessarily chasing after the chase car. They're. They're there to complete a set. They're there to. In Pokemon specifically. They're there to build a deck. They're. There's so many different ways of going about collecting. There's just like, no right way to collect. But, yeah, I think. I think there's. There's a story there. There's. There's entertainment there. There's joy there. I mean, it's why I got into the hobby. I mean, I was watching, you know, YouTuber, YouTubers such as, like, Leon Hart, Real Breaking Nate, Super Duper Danny. Like, they were all just opening up hacks and they were just having a good time. And I mean, I was. I was part of that ride back in the day. So, yeah, like, I definitely see that. I definitely agree with that.
- [25:40]
B
Yeah. What keeps Shiv busy? You know, you're doing a lot of international shows. Touch. I feel like it's probably a dual part there, Shiv. I mean, you know, both what I see on your content and, you know, maybe give everybody a little bit of the international perspective at the same time.
- [25:58]
A
Yeah. So, like, what typically keeps me busy is that I do content full time. So I predominantly create content around collectibles, and I will often partner with grading companies and auction houses to put out that piece of content. But when it comes to international stuff, I also work with conventions. So I've been working with conventions from the ground up since 2021. It started with Collecticon. I worked with Collecticon for four years. When they first started as a regional based convention down in Texas, and then it's now become a national convention. And then through that process, I was working with smaller card shows in the process because pre Covid, there weren't any TCG based card shows for Pokemon specifically, there were only card shows. I mean there were only like card based events, such as, like competitive events back in the day, but now they're everywhere. And so I was working with small conventions in Miami, such as Miami TCG Con. I've worked with shows in Hawaii. And then about a year, a little over a year ago, I worked with Tokyo Comic Con. So I got invited out by Tokyo Comic Con, got asked to work with Stan Sakai, who is a big comic book artist, as well as Mitsuhiroita, the guy who drew bass at Charizard. But yeah, the appetite for collecting internationally is just as strong as it is here, if not even more. China, it's very, very intense. Japan is very, very intense. Singapore is also very, very intense. I was just in Singapore and I got asked to come out there to produce content for Singapore Comic Con. So I work in tandem with a lot of these different conventions. And if there's a collectible avenue there, then I'm usually involved in that kind of capacity. Whether it's that San Diego Comic Con, New York City Comic Con, it's not just limited to just cards. It's also working with a lot of these major publishers in the anime space as well as, as well as companies, toy companies as well, like such as Jazzwares and so on and so forth. So like I dabble in a lot of different things, but that appetite is strong and it's stronger now than it was like four years ago, three years ago. Whatever, it's. It's the strongest I've ever seen it.
- [28:15]
B
That's interesting. That means they're competing with us. Not competing, but like more people want it. There's only so much product, right?
- [28:22]
A
Yeah, I think, I think it's like there's a push and pull to it. Right. So like with Pokemon specifically in America, there are Japanese Pokemon cards that are increasingly high in value. And like, you can take those to Japan and you get a lot more for it in Japan. But in Japan, if a new set releases that demand for those cards, those Japanese cards are going to be a lot higher in the United States. So like, what they don't necessarily attribute a lot of value to, we attribute a lot of value to. So it kind of works in tandem. And as far as like what's happening In Singapore and China and so on and so forth and other countries, the way they view it is that they're going. The demand is not only behind vintage, it's very, very high end vintage that they're going after. Those people are going after everything that's high end vintage. And then they're also going for anything that is of high demand as far as modern based Pokemon cards go. So like the appetite, the appetite that we share here in the States is the same sort of appetite that they have there. And it's just sort. It feels more of like a race right now, if I were to put it. Like it's, it's a comp. It's not really competition, but it feels more of like a race. And races are competitive by nature. But yeah, I mean that's, that's what, you know, collecting is sometimes. Sometimes it is a competition. Like I have the only one of this. There's only 100 of these and I own one of them. And then the added factor of social media being a thing, you have people being able to showcase those things and then you have people wanting that too. So it's a continuous loop here.
- [30:00]
B
Yeah, I mean it's a lot like what I've said about the loop of culture, content, sports and brands and all this stuff is sort of feeding one another. And then I think the content you're creating, which is great, and the ability to create it with these channels like we talked about the very beginning when I mentioned kind of the democratization, it's created this entire world that sort of. I'm not sure who's the sun is, but it all sort of revolves. Pushing and pulling in an ecosystem that feeds each other.
- [30:40]
A
Absolutely. Yeah, it all feeds each other. I think at the end of the day, like more people are wanting to get involved in this hobby and the more content is being pushed out, more people want to be able to participate and they're trying to figure out how to participate. And again, it just feeds itself. I don't know where that center is. Maybe that center is just the joy of being able to collect. And what comes with that is this.
- [31:07]
B
You know what I'm thinking the most? The whole time we're talking Shiv is like, we got to get you on Collector Nation, man. You should be part of it. Hey, let's talk about that after the fact. The. As we wrap up here, man, the people that are coming in from an investment standpoint, and it sounds like I want to summarize and make sure I've gotten it and the audience has gotten it. I mean, it sounds like you're cool with whoever's coming in. If you're coming in as an investor, that's cool. If you're coming in as a collector, that's cool. And probably more cool to you because you're a collector at heart too. But if you are coming in from an investment standpoint, particularly with Pokemon, is it as simple as, you know, like you said, I couldn't agree more. And that's why when you said open, spend your thousand, ten thousand hours, whatever, I couldn't agree more. And that's what the boys and I did. Getting back, you know, really taking it serious and getting back into it, you know, ripping packs, looking at stuff, education. But I mean, is it as simple as, well, what's printed the least and has the most scarcity, you know, go after that? I mean. But are there other nuances that Shiv Patel can. Insider tips for people that are investing that to maybe think about.
- [32:20]
A
I mean, look, yeah, you can. If you. If you're very liquid, yeah, you can go ahead and buy some of the biggest cards available in any hobby that you want to. And I've seen that. I know all the guys in Pokemon who are dropping millions of dollars. I know all of them. And they're faceless. They're faceless individuals. And some of them are crypto whales. Some of them created specific pieces of crypto. They exist, they're there. But if I think my advice is kind of look where no one else is looking and apply the logic of whether or not that item has multiple layers of collectibility. So if it's very difficult for the average individ to collect, or if it's difficult for a collector to collect, that's kind of like something to pay attention to and take very seriously. When I came into this space in 2019, not only was I collecting vintage Pokemon cards at that time, that was extremely undervalued for where I was at. I was collecting very, very rare vintage Pokemon toys. And I completed a set of 10, 12 toys, costing me about $7,700. I sold all of that for $110,000 in December, not that long ago. So there are collectors out there that collect things outside of Pokemon. It's. It's memorabilia. All the things that you see behind me, these things have all gone up in value. And. And you know, there's not that many people that will talk about that. There are. They do exist. And there are collectors out there. There are people on the outside looking in that want the things that I have behind me. So, like, yeah, just look where no one else is looking. You know, apply that, don't you?
- [34:02]
B
That's helpful. I love that. That was juicy. If you were paying attention, you know where to go with that. And if you don't shoot me a dm, I'll help you with the breadcrumbs. But what's a trading card? Maybe that you think maybe it doesn't have the upside that Pokemon did in 2019, 2018, whatever. But what's something that people might be sleeping on that you think should get more attention?
- [34:30]
A
Pokemon cards.
- [34:30]
B
Not Pokemon. Not poke. Like non Pokemon, like non sports card. Non Pokemon. What's a trading card? You know, I'm not going to lead the witness, but I'll throw them out there. You know, you got magic. You got.
- [34:43]
A
Yeah, you got magic. I think. I think Yu Gi.
- [34:46]
B
Oh.
- [34:47]
A
Is. Is something that is slept on. I think one medium that is going to be. I give it here in the next, like five years. And this is just my perspective because I'm taking it very seriously right now. And I'm putting my money where my mouth is on this. Is that anime. Anime is a big, big cultural movement that's happening here in the United States. It's been happening for quite some time now. You look at Hollywood as. As an example and this is. And just follow along with me. Yeah, a lot of major movies are failing, and that's why we see a lot of sequels and prequels to the same things that we grew up with. It's very, very risky for a production company to make something. And just recently, as of last year, there was a movie called the Demon Slayer movie. The cost to be able to produce that movie was $3 million. They made 300 million more than that now at this point. And so where anime is becoming very, very relevant and very culturally significant in this space, I think that's where people should be looking at predominantly around animation cells and sketches. Japanese people and Japanese intellectual properties are very, very safeguarded. It's very, very tough to work with these companies. And they're very, very strict when it comes to their licensing process. And so if you can get your hands on a animation cell, and for those guys who do not know what an animation cell is, is that back in the day when they used to make these animes, these episodes, they would sketch on a piece of paper and that would indicate a part of a frame for that specific movie or show. And then they'll put a piece of plastic over it called a celluloid, and they would paint over that. Everything is digital these days. So stuff like that is becoming hard and hard to come by. And as a collector, to be able to own a piece of an episode that was very, very momentous and influential, that's what people are missing out on. And I think that's where things are going in this direction as far as collectability goes. And then sketches from the people who create specific intellectual properties are going to become increasingly more and more and more valuable. We're talking about, like, you show a kid today a Gustav Klimt painting and right now, like that painting, one of the paintings just recently sold for the highest amount ever for a public painting for $237 million. But like, kids aren't gonna know what that is. They're gonna know what anime is, and if they've been influenced by that, they're gonna want that. So I think, like, that's where people aren't really looking right now. And I think they should take that very, very seriously.
- [37:13]
B
Very interesting. And anime is something I kind of ignored. You know, it's been on my. It's not new. It's been around, I mean, around for a long time, but it hasn't been something that was like, necessary. Now I see it and I'm like. And I hear my kids mention things that is definitely noteworthy.
- [37:31]
A
You can, you can own a PSA 10 first edition shadowless Charizard. And just recent comps ON that is $550,000. Right? But imagine owning a sketch of Charizard by the guy who illustrated Charizard for that specific art. That's a one of one. You know, I have a one of one piece of a sketch of spongebob. I have a one of one piece of specific IP things in regards to different anime that I can't show because that person has specifically stated not to do so. There's a lot of aspects that are taboo about it, but I'm putting my money where my mouth is. I just spent $10,000 on two different intellectual properties on anime myself that should be here this week. So, like, I'm taking that very, very seriously. Yeah.
- [38:17]
B
Ah, the Shadow Collector.
- [38:19]
A
Yeah. I want to be able to get as much as I want possible before I showcase it. And then like, people flock on to it because I've done the whole thing where I've shown a trading card before and no one cared about it. And then all of a sudden, within a month later, people care about it. And then I end up having to spend like 2x for that specific collectible. So, yeah, interesting.
- [38:40]
B
So Are you telling me unrelated? But you started there when I asked the question. You know, I go into the retail stores or something. That one piece in Yu Gi oh is always sitting there staring at me and available versus the Pokemon or anything else. Should I be buying whatever's there and throwing it in the box somewhere or ignore it maybe?
- [39:00]
A
I mean, like, I think certain. I think with Yu Gi oh, Yu Gi oh is a fantastic ip. I think the issue is, is that they haven't really created any more. It hasn't really created new monsters that are iconic. Pokemon doesn't have that issue. Pokemon is able to bring back new things all the time. So like, Yu Gi oh is essentially relying on a few different character. I mean, monster designs that are just continuously using and that can be kind of problematic. But at the end of the day, Yu Gi oh does have really, really good sets from time to time. I don't know right now because I haven't heard anything, but they have sets that have specific Chase cards that are highly valuable. And like, I would. If I. If. If, you know, there was something hot right now that I could tell you, which I don't think there's anything hot right now. I'd be focusing on those things and getting the first edition sets of or packs of of those specific items. Because of the potential possibility to be able to pull a chase. I would much rather own the actual Seal product versus, you know, trying to rip it and chasing after it. And at that point, I might as well just buy the Chase card itself.
- [40:05]
B
Yeah, yeah. What about One Piece?
- [40:08]
A
One Piece is really hot. I think it would be. I would be foolish to say that One Piece. I think One Piece is probably one of the most impactful anime right now worldwide. And how it's even impacting certain or specific political movements. I'm not going to argue for those specific political movements or against.
- [40:31]
B
Yeah.
- [40:32]
A
But I will say that like anything that has any sort of cultural impact, I think that's worth looking at. It's worth keeping an eye on. I myself don't really buy One Piece cards too tremendously. Like, I think the One Cool Car, the one coolest collaboration that I saw Toei do specifically with One Piece was the Luffy Dodgers collaboration. Yeah, I was there for that game. I watched. I was there to watch. I got Card. But yeah, I think. I think, like, overall, I think there's impact to that. I think the more that kind of stuff happens, it's very. It's very important to kind of look at. And I think I know everyone knows this Individual. His name is Gary Hayes. He's known as King Pokemon. He was known, he was on Pawn Stars from back in the day showing off his Pokemon cards. Yeah, he said one thing that kind of stuck out and that was this. If a new trading card game comes in and it can last more than five sets, then it's worth looking at and it's worth to pay attention to. And I like that. And so, you know, I think one piece is significant. I myself don't participate in the one piece trading card side. I have friends who do and they take it very seriously. There's a lot of big high end collectors that I personally know that, you know, take it very seriously. But yeah, there's that there's comic books, there's manga, there's everything.
- [41:47]
B
If you buy. I've been buying one piece. When I see it though, I've got it like thrown in a box somewhere. I'm not even looking at it. I don't even look it up. Oh, I don't just. But I just, I sort of maybe accidentally use the advice that you, the guy you just mentioned, which is just I've seen it for enough now and I know there's enough demand that it doesn't feel like surely it's not going to be worth less than the retail, you know, I paid for it.
- [42:14]
A
Yeah, yeah. I think, I think it's here to stay. I think it's here to last. There's new trading cards, trading card games that are up and coming. I myself, I'll keep tabs on it but like I won't like take it seriously until I think there's like a cultural aspect behind it.
- [42:30]
B
I know you're not necessarily the sports guy. You do everything. I know. And you freaking held the $12 million Mickey Mantle. But Bo Jackson, I like that set. I don't know if you've even seen that. It's kind of fun.
- [42:43]
A
Yeah, I've seen it. I've seen it. Yeah, I think it's pretty cool. Like even though I don't actively participate in the sports card space, it's always good to see because like these, these are, you know, like. Yeah, like Pokemon is fictional characters. Right. But like you actually have like these influential individuals that. That sweat bled, you know. Yeah, yeah, that sweat bled, you know, cried. Like, like these are inspirational people that have real stories that we all can relate to. And so like I don't actively participate because I'm so spread thin with what I do. But yeah, I just always think that that side is always cool. I mean Look, I mean, sports cards did lead this way for Pokemon. It created a level of legitimacy for Pokemon to be its own thing. And I just think that's cool.
- [43:29]
B
Yeah. 100% agree. Hey, brother. Gone a little bit over time. I appreciate that. So fascinating. You're so smart, man. You're doing a lot of great things. Really admire what you're doing. Tell everybody where they can learn more about your content, any of your initiatives, things like that.
- [43:48]
A
Yeah. So on Instagram, I'm not shivam. I don't know how I came up with that name, but I just have it on YouTube. It's at. It's vaulted. Like you're going to vault something. So I have that there. I would plug in my TikTok, but I'm barely on TikTok anymore. I'm just mostly on Instagram and YouTube and Facebook.
- [44:09]
B
Oh, I like even more. I like even more. Yeah, more. That's me. Yeah, I know. TikTok is the hottest thing ever. For so long, I've stayed true to ig. I mean, I've got a good, decent following on Tick Tock, but not. I just. Yeah, I don't like getting in that vortex.
- [44:24]
A
Yeah. My, my. I have a. I have a larger following on TikTok, but, like, I just never felt like there was a real sense of community on TikTok as a collector and as just like, as a content creator. It just felt like a lot of people that were passing by that saw that piece of content. So that's why I like, doubled down, like, really, really early on when TikTok was still really hot during COVID I still doubled down on Instagram. And right now I still think that YouTube is just kind of the king of things. But I do think that the collector community exists on Instagram.
- [44:53]
B
Like, there.
- [44:53]
A
There's no argument with that. It's. It's on Instagram and it's not going anywhere anytime soon.
- [44:58]
B
Ding, ding, ding. Smart man. I love it, brother. Thank you so much for your time and appreciate you coming on.
- [45:05]
A
Of course. Thank you for having me.
- [45:06]
B
Hey, guys. You're gonna find us. Collectibles show is the current URL. We will be moving to the collectornation.com shortly. We'll have that redirect with it and go follow Shiv man. He's doing some great stuff in the space. It's fascinating. He's covering the gamut with his content. A lot of great storytelling and great knowledge on Pokemon and collectibles in general. We appreciate you for listening. Stay tuned for the next episode coming up soon. We'll see you next time on Collector Nation. Thanks for tuning in to the show. Don't forget to follow us on your favorite podcast platform. And don't miss the full video version on YouTube. You can find us@collectornation.com or follow Ryan on Instagram at Ryan Alford. Now get out there and collect yours.