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Collector Nation
What Makes Something Collectible? Inside the Stories, Scarcity & Culture That Create Value
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- [00:00]
John Robinson
It tells a story when you're able to make a rez match to something. A jersey that was worn on July 12, 1985, when this guy hit the game winning shot, and it really created a story.
- [00:12]
DJ Ski
That's what I'm trying to bring is like the same nostalgia that some of these items bring to me. Memories. And we want to preserve for others, and that's what we're here for.
- [00:19]
Dan Jameson
We concentrate on every signature, trying to create the most unique way of presenting it, not just banging out a commodity that just gets sold everywhere.
- [00:28]
Alex Brew
If you're listening to hip hop, you're actually listening to samples from like Fung Soul, Disco, time capsule into the past. Kind of perfect for collecting.
- [00:36]
Tarek
Memory's a big deal. Being able to sort of capture that energy which is currently going missing. It's a special capability. Just don't mess that bit up.
- [00:44]
Ryan Alford
Welcome to the Collector Nation podcast. Here on the Collector Nation Network. Whether you're chasing grails or calling bluffs, we take you inside the hobby. Here's your host, Ryan Alford.
- [01:02]
Host (Ryan Alford or Narrator)
Foreign what's up, Collector Nation? We appreciate you for listening and being with us today. Wherever, whenever that day is, we know you got options. Thanks for choosing us, collecting us, because we love to collect. What is it about collecting? That's what this whole show's been about. Collect your nation. As Americans, as human beings worldwide, we, we all like to collect something. But what makes something collectible? Holding two of my favorite players in my hand as I'm talking, Josh Allen, Trevor Lawrence. Beautiful cards. Is it scarcity? Is it nostalgia? Is it cultural relevance? Or is it the story behind them? But here's the thing. Not everything valuable started valuable, and not everything rare becomes meaningful. From this episode, we've pulled together conversations from across Collector Nation that explore that exact concept. However, moments, cultural artifacts, and even digital experiences turn into things people care about. They chase and ultimately preserve. We'll hear from DJ Ski who breaks down how something is overlooked as confetti from the game of a championship becomes a physical piece of history. Dan Jameson with Icons.com walks us through why jerseys aren't just apparel. Their identity, legacy, and emotional connection. Alex Brew from Wax Poetics takes us outside traditional sports and into hip hop memorabilia. John Robinson, CEO of Resolution Photo Matching explains why knowing the story behind an item can completely change its worth. And finally, Tarek, CEO of Trace, gives us a look into the future with digital collectibles. What ties all these conversations together is one truth. Collectibles aren't just objects. They're moments. They're Memory, they're culture. So whether you're a lifelong collector or just starting to pay attention, this episode is about understanding the deeper layers behind why we collect and what makes something truly worth holding onto.
- [03:12]
Host (Ryan Alford or Interviewer)
Let's get at it. You know, we can't all go and be at these events and these things, like, either unattainable, monetarily, logistics, whatever it might be, but physically, but, like, putting them in the bottle, like, stopping time in a way, and making these collectibles, and then knowing the authenticity is there and the trust is there. That's what collecting is about, though. It's kind of like, look, attention is fleeting. Moments are fleeting. We're pulled in so many different ways. But having these things that bring back nostalgia, bring back reminders, and being a moment that is sort of captured in time is really cool.
- [03:51]
DJ Ski
You nailed it. I mean, like, look, I'll show you what's behind me. I have a 91 Twins World Series trophy paired with a picture of me and my mom at the. You know, during the 91 World Series, my mother passed away. But, like, so for me, like, yes, as a Minnesota sports fan, the last men's championship we won. There's the obvious on field, that's the smallest part for. For me, that tugs on my memories as a kid, My memories with my mother, my memories of my father.
- [04:15]
Host (Ryan Alford or Narrator)
Right.
- [04:15]
DJ Ski
Like everything else. And that's what this trophy, when I see, represents that moment in time.
- [04:20]
Host (Ryan Alford or Narrator)
Yes.
- [04:21]
DJ Ski
Like, to me, it's priceless. Right. Like, value in it. It's a gold trophy, but it's being there, and that's what I try to be. That's what I hope this represents. Like, it's confetti. It's a novelty product. Let's keep it real. Right. Like, it's confetti. We put a lot of effort into collecting it, which is why, you know, it's still like, a $60 product, because we literally are on the field at the super bowl collecting it. We literally seal it up. Protective tape with trackers on it. It can't be opened up unless one of our representatives is in the factory. We want to make sure that even the factory, they're not trying to get cute and add in more confetti or take any of those things. Like, we want people to know what they're getting is real.
- [04:57]
Host (Ryan Alford or Interviewer)
Right.
- [04:57]
DJ Ski
And from the source, because it represents so much more again, to a lot of people. Like, yes, on paper, Philadelphia Eagles won the Super bowl on February 9th in New Orleans. There's going to be some kid that is. This is going to be sitting on his desk 20 years from now because he remembers watching it with his family. And that's far more important than the outcome of the game. This is just what encapsulates that, and that's what I'm trying to bring is like the same nostalgia that some of these items bring to me and memories we want to preserve for others. And it just hasn't been. It just hasn't been available and it hasn't been in a trusted source. Like, that's what we're here for. And that's where I say we really storytell through these. And it's. It's more than just the value of items.
- [05:40]
Host (Ryan Alford or Interviewer)
How many jerseys of Nessie's has icons sold over time?
- [05:47]
Host (Ryan Alford or Narrator)
Roughly.
- [05:48]
Tarek
Roughly.
- [05:49]
Dan Jameson
I'd say, let's try and work it out. Probably about 50,000 in total over two decades. Yeah, but I had an interesting chat.
- [06:04]
Host (Ryan Alford or Interviewer)
But also not a lot. You know, I mean, it's just so that it's. It's. There's scarcity there because, I mean, there's how many billion people on the planet, like, and, you know, you've done it for 20 years and only 50,000 out there. I mean, that's just scared. It's a rare thing to hold.
- [06:21]
Dan Jameson
It really brought it home when, unfortunately, Pele died. And speaking to people who have Pele contracts, and I'm like, can I get some? And so. And we're like, yeah, okay, maybe we swap some for Leo. And I'm like, I think the ratio is probably about 8 to 1 in terms of value. They're like, how can it be? Pele is the greatest player that ever lived, won three World Cups and so on. I'm like, because you made him sign 2 million shirts. That's the difference. He worked him for so long for so much that actually there is scarcity, but there's not that much scarcity in the world of it. He signed so many things for decades and decades and decades. And I'm like, well, Leo signs a contracted small amount every year, and supply and demand means the price goes up, but I prefer it that way. I'd rather kind of keep it controlled than mass. And also, you can't make. You can't make more money just by doing more of it. It's like, we see Leo three or four times a year. Can't see him 16 times a year, and his hand would fall off. It just doesn't work like that. We concentrate on every signature, trying to create the most unique or special or interesting way of presenting it, not just banging out A commodity that just gets sold every time.
- [07:47]
Host (Ryan Alford or Interviewer)
That's an interesting point for, you know, our listeners and the strategies that go into that because that's what creates value and makes something collectible. You know, it's, it's kind of like this fine line of memorabilia with collectibility because, you know, something could be a memorabilia piece but not necessarily be scarce.
- [08:09]
Dan Jameson
But yeah, you know, I think it's an interesting point. So I know we always try to learn from the best and it's sort of upper deck have got Michael Jordan and upper deck doubled the price and they, and I'm saying that's a bit hard. Said, well, we sold the same amount. I'm like, okay, that's like, it's a. There's. I did economics at university, so I always, I always trot this out. Have you ever heard of anything called a Veblen? Good. V, E, B, L, A, N. I have.
- [08:45]
Host (Ryan Alford or Interviewer)
I, I don't remember why, but I have some in the memory books from something.
- [08:50]
Dan Jameson
It's basically, it's a, it's got an, an inverse demand curve.
- [08:57]
Host (Ryan Alford or Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [08:57]
Dan Jameson
The more expensive it gets, the more demand goes up, the more you want it. If you've got a cut price Ferrari next to a super Ferrari, you're going to distrust the cut price Ferrari and you're going to want to buy the thing that is super expensive and it works with super high end goods. So like Gucci handbags for £500. You'd be suspicious of Gucci handbags for 5,000. You're like, okay, yeah, that feels right. And you've got to create that value with sort of scarcity marketing and. The skill of what we do.
- [09:34]
Host (Ryan Alford or Narrator)
Let's just set the table for the audience, Alex. I mean, what you're up to.
- [09:39]
Host (Ryan Alford or Interviewer)
Wax Poetics, past, present, future.
- [09:41]
Alex Brew
Sure. I'll give you the medium length story. I suppose so. Yes. I'm Alex. I'm CEO and co founder of Wax Poetics. Right now we are a music collectibles marketplace where we run auctions of incredible music memorabilia that comes direct from verified artists, producers, DJs and collectors. But what we really do is we kind of layer in this storytelling element around everything. So we, right now we sit at the intersection of the traditional media model with this marketplace model kind of layered into it. And we're kind of aiming for that sweet spot right in the middle, which is, you know, something that I think we think has been kind of underserved and missing in a lot of the collectible space and particularly in the, in the music collecting space.
- [10:30]
Host (Ryan Alford or Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [10:31]
Alex Brew
And Your point, you know, you raised quite rightly. While we are a year and a half into this new part of this project, Wax Post has actually been around for almost 25 years. It's our 25th birthday next year.
- [10:44]
John Robinson
Yeah.
- [10:45]
Alex Brew
So we started in 2001. Not by me, by the original founding team. And the reason why it started was born in New York. Everyone listening to hip hop at the time, the no one really kind of reporting on it credibly. And the guys were saying, hey, you know, this is a real art form, you know, and it deserves to be kind of reported on, you know, with the kind of respect that it deserves. So really it's talking about hip hop and you've got this like incredible line from, if you're listening to hip hop, you're actually listening to samples from like funk, soul, disco, jazz. It's already this like time capsule into the past.
- [11:22]
John Robinson
Right.
- [11:23]
Alex Brew
Kind of perfect for collecting. And it became super influential across artists, DJs, producers, collectors, and branched out from hip hop to all genres. And yeah, fast forward to about four, five years ago, just before COVID hit. Myself and Dave, my co founder, we took it over. We were both fans of the magazine, both big record collectors, and we're like, look, there is. There's something really important here. You know, it's a beautiful brand. It's got a great community around it of collectors that we think, you know, have kind of been maybe like underserved in the space historically. And yeah, we took it over. We didn't know exactly what we're going to do with it at the time, if I'm being completely honest. But like, there's something, there's something really important to do here in, in the music space. Yeah. And then how we kind of got to this point, kind of two things quite serendipitously happening at the same time. You know, we were looking at, we have a journal that people collect. We have an audience of collectors who are now in there, you know, in a phase of their life where they are actually investing more in their collecting. And, you know, we're actually like, hey, we're actually not in the publishing space, we're in the collecting space. And then at that same time, Sotheby's were doing their hip hop auction and they reached out to us and they were like, hey, would you like to be part of it and have the full run of West Politics in there? We're like, amazing, like a huge, huge honor for us to be part of that. But it kind of made us step back and we're like, you know, no shade on Sotheby's. Love Sotheby's. But like, why are Sotheby's doing hip hop auctions? And what do Sotheby's know about hip hop and what's Sotheby's know about music? And that's where we come from. We know this stuff and, you know, we've been part of that culture for, at that point, 22 years or 23 years, and it's like, let's go and do this. You know, there's something really important to be done here. Connecting that you said at the start very correctly, culture, commerce, collecting and kind of joining all those dots. So, yeah, so we've been running at that for the past year and a half. We've done items artists with everyone from Mariah Carey, which is how we originally got in contact. Rolling Stones, Beastie Boys, Booy Collins, Louis Vega, Arthur Baker. And yeah, it's been a really, really exciting part of the journey.
- [13:51]
Host (Ryan Alford or Interviewer)
As a society, we collect things and, you know, when it's. It's just something that's in the foundation of our culture and we put obviously the celebrity and anyone's name, image, likeness, that's famous for whatever reason, good, bad or indifferent, or entertainment or sports or whatever it might be, we put value in that and, and this kind of validation and service gives it that much more credibility in the collectibles, in a collect tours, you know, mine, and in someone buying it.
- [14:28]
John Robinson
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's where the hobby is at its best is like at its core of just like finding cool stuff and then coming up with an idea for like, okay, I want to collect, you know, this team from this year because that was, you know, the year that I was, you know, a kid and I, you know, was on that ride with them and, you know, any different thing you can think of to put a collection together, I think, you know, that's what the hobby's all about. And you know, unfortunately, there's times where, you know, there's things that go on in the hobby that aren't what you want to see in terms of people, you know, putting the money first and putting the ethics second, which drives us nuts. But like you say, at its core, it's that, that's what's great about the hobby, you know, finding those fun, unique collections and just going down a rabbit hole. But, yeah, absolutely, you know, we want to do everything we can to add to that. So that's what I love about, I.
- [15:34]
Host (Ryan Alford or Interviewer)
Think research is becoming more and more timely. It's like, just because of reality, of AI and all these other things, of what's real, what's not, and when you have something physical that, you know, has this sentimental and real value, these services, I feel like, become more and more valuable.
- [15:54]
John Robinson
Yeah, well, it just. It tells a story. You know, when you're able to make a res match to something, it can go from a bat that was used in 2010 or a jersey that was worn in 1985, to a jersey that was worn on July 12, 1985, when this guy hit a home run or this guy hit the game winning shot. And it really creates that much more of a story. You know, you learn the story of the piece. So, yeah, it adds another level to the. To the collectible.
- [16:25]
Host (Ryan Alford or Narrator)
Yeah.
- [16:25]
Host (Ryan Alford or Interviewer)
And that's what I love. You know, I'll start to sort of wind down where we started a bit, like, with the imagery or video or like something that kind of goes along with it to tell that story for how you display it and, you know, bringing to life not only the piece, but the entire game or framing it.
- [16:44]
John Robinson
In a lot of.
- [16:44]
Host (Ryan Alford or Interviewer)
I mean, it can help you kind of build out that whole story of what happened during game worn. Right?
- [16:50]
John Robinson
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You know, it tells the story, and then, you know, on the investment side, it adds a huge amount of value. You know, we're oftentimes seeing pieces go for, you know, four times what they sold for without a res match when we're able to make that res match. But the reason it adds so much value financially is because it does tell that story and makes the piece that much cooler. So, yeah, it's a lot of fun.
- [17:16]
Host (Ryan Alford or Interviewer)
Friction removal.
- [17:18]
Tarek
So 100.
- [17:19]
Host (Ryan Alford or Interviewer)
How do I make it easy? Like, I think. I mean, nine out of 10 fans for whatever sport, tennis, cricket, basketball, football. I think hearing our conversation and hearing the theory, not just theory, but the practice of what you're doing, it's like, sign me up. That sounds cool, but how easy can you make it and how, you know, can you do a retina eye scan? And I'm in. You know what I mean? I don't know, but we're not quite there yet. But you know what I'm saying? I think that's what it is. It's like, how do you. I flip on the game. How do I not fumble around with a login and my password that I can't find and an app that doesn't want to load?
- [17:58]
John Robinson
And I'm trying to do this, but.
- [17:59]
Host (Ryan Alford or Interviewer)
I just want to watch the game. I'm like, it's how do you remove friction or key? Like that's, that's the key probably to something like this.
- [18:06]
Tarek
Yeah, well, I mean, certainly it is. And you know, the biggest friction is confusion, by the way. Right? So like, even if it's like, you know, you know, biometric login and you know, it's super easy from a sort of an app perspective, which people are used to doing, like, used to having like 3, 4 apps open during a sporting event and whatever, it's still a new behavior, right? To be like collect a match and like, so that the most important thing is to, is to think about like, you know, just through this journey, the basics of user experience, design and what messages matter more, at what moments. Some of them, you're more like, like digital savvy. Audience will probably also be asking like, is this NFTs? Do I need to connect a wallet? Do I need to do all of that? And I'm like, nah, you don't. Right? Like this is. Yes, they're provably scarce assets and we are, you know, your, your fan identity is something that we do have on a blockchain because it's got to be verif for any time down the line that you want to share that identity with somebody and remain in control of your data. Yeah, but we don't have. This is not a crypto thing. It's not like a, you know, the friction in those experiences is really high. This is not a financialized behavior. This is. The idea isn't like, turn up at this event, collect these things and then flip them, right? This is, this is about. Primarily proof that I give a fuck about this thing, right? So like, if I give a fuck, I just keep doing it because we want to know who those people are that actually do give a fuck. That's the whole, that's the whole point. The 800 punches that happen in a boxing match sure make those tradable. I make that, like, as an engaged fan, I get, I get sort of some privileged access to things that may have more cultural meaning or more value. And like, of course I want the marketplace for those things, but that marketplace is there for those people who are like bonafide fans, right? And, and the reason we do that is because that's the signal that we are to celebrate and create. It's that obsession that the sports team wants to know about, right? Like who are these, who are the people that actually really we owe our cultural capital to? And how do I not just by giving a little, also get a lot more back from that fan but that's also who sponsors want to know as well. Like who am I really in front of, right, by association with this sports team or this sports league, which, which fans, and what can I learn about them and can I even acquire them into my own ecosystem as a brand? You know, who are they? And that's where the identity signal of like, I genuinely give a shit about this thing is. The base, the basic, the basic premise of it.
- [20:54]
Host (Ryan Alford or Interviewer)
Tarek, it's really interesting and I think I love this topic and the innovation and the, the.
- [21:04]
John Robinson
Digital. Is that a made up word?
- [21:06]
Host (Ryan Alford or Interviewer)
I don't know, I just make that up at least. Someone's probably said that before. You know, nature of this, it's, it's really cool, man. And I think, I think you've got all the opportunity in the world. You just got to connect all the dots, baby. You know, I mean, I like it.
- [21:26]
Tarek
We definitely are. And you know, there's a special source in here about like, you know, as you say, just like memory is a big deal, you know, being able to sort of capture that energy which is currently going missing. It's a special capability and you can use that in a variety of ways, but you've got to stay true to the obsession. That's, that's how we, that's how we roll with it, you know, just don't mess that bit up, right? Authentic to the sport, authentic to the fan experience, and everything works out from there.
- [21:54]
Ryan Alford
Thanks for tuning in to the show. Be sure to follow us on your go to podcast platform and catch the full video episode over on YouTube. Visit us at collectornation. Com and follow Ryan on Instagram at Ryan Alford. Now get out there and collect yours.