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Collectors Gene Radio
Mary Randolph Carter (Carter) - Author & Creative Director, Ralph Lauren
01:00:32
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- [00:00]
Mary Randolph Carter
If you have a place for it in your heart, you'll find a place for it in your home. That's kind of the way I've always been.
- [00:07]
Cameron
That might be another book title. You should save that one.
- [00:10]
Mary Randolph Carter
I think. I do have a book named that.
- [00:13]
Cameron
What's going on, everybody? And welcome to Collector's Gene Radio. This is all about diving into the nuances of collecting and ultimately finding out whether or not our guests have what we like to call the Collector's Gene. If you have the time, please subscribe and leave a review. It truly helps. Thanks a bunch for listening, and please enjoy today's guest on Collector's Dream Radio. Today, I'm thrilled to sit down once again with the legendary Mary Randolph Carter, better known simply as Carter. She's a longtime creative director at Ralph Lauren and author of 10 books on all things collecting and a lifelong champion of the beauty in imperfection. In our last conversation, we explored her passion for what she lovingly calls junk objects with history, personality, and a story to tell. This time we dive even deeper, discussing her newest book, Live with the Things yous, You Love and you'll Live Happily Ever after, which celebrates the art of surrounding yourself with meaningful objects and the way they shape our homes, our memories, and even our identities. We talk about her philosophy on collecting, the emotional weight we attach to objects and the unexpected ways people incorporate their collections into their lives. We also touch on her work at Ralph Lauren and how her world of fashion, design, and collecting intersect. She's a storyteller at heart, and it will certainly not be the last time you hear from her. So, without further ado, this is Mary Randolph Carter, AKA Carter, for Collector's Dream Radio. Carter, welcome back to Collector's Dream Radio.
- [01:44]
Mary Randolph Carter
Oh, thanks, Cameron. I'm very happy to be back.
- [01:47]
Cameron
It's my pleasure. And I'm so excited that you reached out to me ahead of time and let me know that you have a new book out called Live with the Things yous Love. And I can't wait to dive into that. But first.
- [01:58]
Mary Randolph Carter
But you forgot the most important part, Cam.
- [02:01]
Cameron
What's that?
- [02:01]
Mary Randolph Carter
Live with the things you love and you'll live happily ever after.
- [02:07]
Cameron
That's just the beauty that comes from it. But yes. And you'll live happily ever after, that's for sure.
- [02:12]
Mary Randolph Carter
That's a promise. That's a promise.
- [02:14]
Cameron
I can attest to that. I haven't been doing this as long as you have, but for the time that I have been collecting and amassing things, I can tell you that it does definitely bring you. Happiness. And it's not about the monetary value of things that a lot of people misconstrue when it comes to collecting. It's about all the things that we're going to talk about today.
- [02:35]
Mary Randolph Carter
Yes.
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Cameron
But first, I just kind of want to give everyone a quick recap on you. You're a creative director at Ralph Lauren and a prolific author on all things collecting, particularly what you would call junk. And I would love if you could tell everyone how all of this started and how you eventually landed at Ralph Lauren.
- [02:53]
Mary Randolph Carter
Oh, boy. Well, I remember once, I think at this time, it was before I worked for Ralph. I was in the. Working for, I think, Mademoiselle magazine. I was the beauty. The beauty and health editor. And I was on a trip to Cleveland with. It was a company called Bonnie Bell. Maybe some of your older listeners probably might remember Bonnie Bell, but they were. They were located in Cleveland. And I was on this trip to Cleveland with a, you know, five or six other beauty editors. I was like, the young one. And as we were traveling to this visit in Cleveland, outside of Cleveland, I noticed this antique shop that was, like, right across the road from where we were having our business meeting. So at lunch, I excused myself. I said, I'll be right back. Okay, Carter? And I ran across to this antique shop, and it was amazing. It was this big, cluttered place. And I walked. The door was wide open. I mean, I just creek. Creek it open and walk through. And as I'm walking through, I swear at the end of the aisle, it was almost like a light was shining on it. There was this old dollhouse. And it wasn't just any old dollhouse. It was my dollhouse. I had had a dollhouse growing up, and we'd had a fire, and we lost everything. And in that fire was this dollhouse. And I'm sure that somehow my dollhouse came back in this dusty old antique shop in Cleveland. And all of a sudden, I heard this little voice because I hadn't seen anyone around. And she said, can I help you? And I said, yes, I have to have this dollhouse. So I bought the dollhouse, probably for $12 or something like that, if that much. And I carried it. It was pretty big and cumbersome. And I carried it back into my meeting at Bonnie Bell with all the beauty editors. And they all went, carter, what is this? And I told them the story. And then. Then it was like, how am I going to get it back on the plane? This. This big dollhouse? And Jess Bell, the owner, Bonnie Bell, said, Don't worry, Carter. We'll pack it up and we'll get it to you. And they did. But I just. That moment always stands out. That, that, that was like. I mean, collecting for me was just such a thrill, and I feel like that dollhouse was. You better get to it, Carter, because we're doing this special favor for you, bringing your dollhouse back.
- [05:27]
Cameron
That's such an amazing story. And I think it's such a culmination of the feeling that a lot of collectors get when we do go out and we are hunting through these antique shops and we don't have something necessarily in mind that we're looking for. And you just get stopped in your tracks by something. And every collector has experienced this, and, you know, something catches your eye and you say, I just have to have this. And you can't explain why in that moment, but there's a. There's a story behind it always in your mind, and eventually you can regurgitate that to somebody. But we all have this. This feeling and we all share that same sentiment that when you just see the right thing, you just have to have it.
- [06:04]
Mary Randolph Carter
You have to have it. And if there's not a story, you make one up or you imagine. You know, I love collecting old paintings and I. And I love to think about the people that might have painted them and why, you know, and so I always. I'm always looking on the back of paintings to see if there's a message from the artist to maybe someone that she or he gave it to. But if there's not, I just. I have to make up a story about who is this person and why did they paint this picture. And here it is hanging in my home.
- [06:34]
Cameron
You know, I'm. I'm the same way. I've been recently very interested in English antiques and specifically, you know, English silver. And for whatever reason, I love these trophy style pieces with two handles on them. And a lot of times those come in the form of sugar bowls or soup tureens or gravy terrines. And when you buy them directly from someone who's in England, you know that those have been used in the past for their actual purpose. And you start to think about, you know, the row houses and where these antiques were at one point and people using them and keeping up the polish on them because, you know, they had the money to have probably staff around to help clean everything all the time. You know, you create this whole narrative.
- [07:15]
Mary Randolph Carter
Like Downton Abbey, right?
- [07:17]
Cameron
And then it ends up on a mantle in Arizona here, you know, you Think about the life that it's had. And I would love if you could tell everybody. You know, you transition from Bonnie Bell and at some point you kind of just land at Ralph. But before that, you actually had met him and he wrote a foreword to one of your books. Is that right?
- [07:39]
Mary Randolph Carter
Yeah, yeah. You've gotten part of it. Right. So, yeah, after. After the beauty editor ship at Mademoiselle and a couple of years at New York magazine and then coming back and helped to found Self magazine, and I was there for 10 years, so there was a lot of water under the bridge before I got this call from a friend of mine. I was the creative director itself, saying, carter, you might get a call from someone at Ralph Lauren. They're looking for someone to join the women's design team. And I said to my friend Martha, why would you even throw my name in the hat? You know, I'm very happy here. I helped found this magazine. I have a great team. You know, I have no plans to leave. I love Ralph Lauren and what he does. But okay, if I get the call, obviously I'm not going to hang up. So I got the call and I met with the then head of women's design at Ralph, and after a couple of meetings, I just said, you know, this design is not really my thing. I love Ralph, but I just. It's just. I loved meeting with you, but it's just not my thing. And I think I was gracious. And she said, well, Carter, would you meet with Ralph because he has the best instincts of all about people and where they belong or don't belong in his world, his company and his family. And I said, are you kidding? Of course. I mean, maybe I'd met Ralph a couple of times, but I wasn't directly in the fashion department. So in any case, the day came, and this was when he was in his original offices at 40 West 55th street, now. Legendary. It was like an old apartment building. Slowly, they ate up all the floors. And so she takes me to his office. He walked out looking amazing, like in his old Levi's, probably chambray shirt, maybe patched a little bit. His cowboy boots and an amazing tan and great hair. Anyway, he welcomed me in. And so I thought I was sitting down with Ralph and, you know, this nice woman, and she just said, we'll have a good time. And that's when I realized it was going to be me and Ralph, you know?
- [10:01]
Cameron
Yeah.
- [10:01]
Mary Randolph Carter
So we had really an unbelievable conversation. And he is incredibly curious, still is. And just wanted to know. It was you know, it was all about me. He just wanted to know about how I grew up, where I grew up, what I loved, what were my passions. I don't think we even really talked about clothes at all. And then, of course, I told him about this book, my first book that I was working on called American Family Style. And one thing he was very clear about, he said, Carter finished that book, and of course, he was very interested in it because it was a lifestyle book celebrating families, which was very much what he had been doing and living all his life. But he also threw out come and work with me. So when I finished the book, then my publisher suggested that I find someone, a celebrity type, to write the forward to American Family Style. I was sitting with Howard, my husband, in our local coffee shop on Madison Avenue, and I said, oh, this is such a pain. You know, I finally got the books finished, and now I have to find someone to write a Ford, and I don't know who that could be. And Howard. Ralph. I'm calling Ralph. Howard said to just looked at me, and he said, well, for being such a bright woman, sometimes you are very naive. And there's only one person that could write the forward to American Family Style, and that is, of course, Ralph Lauren. So call him up. So the thing is, Ralph had just recovered, thank goodness, from a benign brain tumor. But he'd been out, and, you know, something like that is pretty intense. And I had read that he'd just come back to work, and I thought, oh, great. You know, great idea, Howard, but I'll never get him on the phone. I'll never get to see him. And the clock is ticking. Well, as it turns out, Howard just said, pick up the phone. That was before cell phones. And so I picked it up, and I saw Ralph, guess what, like, a week later. And we just picked up the conversation from. I guess it was over a year before. And he said, you know, Carter, timing is everything. And yes, of course, I would love to write the forward to your book. I'm joining your family. Now I want you to join mine.
- [12:24]
Cameron
Amazing.
- [12:25]
Mary Randolph Carter
And so that was 1987. The book was published in 88. So I'm just celebrating, like, almost 40 years working for Ralph.
- [12:35]
Cameron
Amazing. Congrats to you on everything. And this is your 10th book that you've just put out, if I'm not mistaken.
- [12:41]
Mary Randolph Carter
Tenth book. Yes.
- [12:42]
Cameron
That's amazing.
- [12:43]
Mary Randolph Carter
That was another thing when I went, you know, when I started to work with Ralph, actually, it was at the book signing for American Family Style. A lot of people thought I wrote that book when I was working for Ralph, but it was kind of like a footpath into his world. But I said to him, you know, one day I may want to write another book, and I just want to know, make sure that you're cool with that. And he absolutely was, because he said, I want you not to feel like I'm taking away anything that is you and that you love. And so, yeah, in the cracks of my life, working for Ralph, I've somehow crafted 10 books.
- [13:24]
Cameron
It's extremely impressive. And I think the best part about your new book is that your son did all the photography. I mean, that must have been such a special moment.
- [13:32]
Mary Randolph Carter
Yes, he's taken the pictures. I mean, I took the pictures for my first, earlier books because he was a child. But once he really started photography, which is a whole other story, I asked him if he would take over, if he would collaborate with me so he could focus on taking pictures and I could focus on the writing of the stories. So this is, I think, the third book that we've. That he's taken the pictures, and it's just elevated everything for me and. And really, like, we'll go into someone's home and we talk about the important images to capture. And while he's doing that, I can spend my time, you know, interviewing the person whose home we're hoping to reveal. So it's. It's. It's really been amazing. He also photographs advertising for Ralph, and we've collaborated on that as well. So it's been. It's been amazing. And I have another son, you know.
- [14:28]
Cameron
Yeah.
- [14:29]
Mary Randolph Carter
Sam, who lives in Richmond, Virginia, now with his wife and our two grandchildren. And he's just amazing in terms of helping me to promote my books in all kinds of ways.
- [14:42]
Cameron
That's spectacular. I mean, you can't. You can't beat that. And, you know, all of this kind of stems back to the roots of your collecting and your personal philosophies around all of this stuff and what really makes you happy when it comes to collecting. And, you know, you mentioned the first object that you remember that kind of set you on this path, which was that dollhouse. But your books in general have consistently championed the beauty of imperfection and the idea that, you know, the home should be filled with the things that tell a story and that you love. How did this philosophy develop for you?
- [15:14]
Mary Randolph Carter
Yeah, you know, like, one of the books was called A Perfectly Kept House is the Sign of a Misspent Life.
- [15:19]
Cameron
Right.
- [15:21]
Mary Randolph Carter
I think it really. It all came from the way that I was brought up in a big, large family in Virginia and having survived two fires and losing everything and having to sort of rebuild our lives and often from things borrowed, even paintings of ancestors of other people because ours had been destroyed. Yeah, I think it, I think that all started in my home with my family, my mother and father and all my brothers and sisters.
- [15:50]
Cameron
Was there a point maybe that you realized collecting wasn't just a passion for you, but something that you wanted to share with the world through your writing? I mean, what was the impetus to say there's so much more to this than just living with these objects? The world should see all this in, you know, a series of 10 books.
- [16:08]
Mary Randolph Carter
So the first book was American Family Style. And that was like the sort of the age of all those lifestyle books. Martha Stewart was doing books, had just started her first entertaining book. And Martha's an old friend of mine. I remember going to her home in Connecticut and she showed me some of the first drafts of the book. Actually, Mary Emerling, who's actually featured in this book, is an old friend of mine that I keep saying, old, old, they're all young at heart, but I've known them for a long time and Mary worked together with me at Mademoiselle magazine a long time ago. So there were all these lifestyle books Susie Slesson was doing. A slew of them were coming out and there were people like House and Garden came down and they did like a 20 page story on our home. And my mother had amazing herb gardens before anyone was interested in herbs, except for maybe in England. And so people were coming down and doing these stories and taking chunks of our life and putting them in their books. And I thought, wait a minute, I think we should tell our story. And so I put together a proposal and it ended up being published and that was American Family Style. After that, I think it was a pretty big success because I think it spoke to people. It was just about living. It wasn't about my family. I mean, our family were stand ins for all kinds of families, but it was about the seasons of celebrating and it was, you know, Thanksgiving and all the holidays in spring, summer, winter, fall. So then my publisher wanted me to do an American Family style cookbook. I said, noam, you don't understand, I'm not a cook. I hate to cook. That wasn't my responsibility in the family, thank goodness. I was in charge of ambiance. I was in charge of lighting the candles, turning on the music, setting the table, cutting the holly and bringing it inside. So no, I can't do a cookbook. I mean, the recipes that were part of American Family Style were all shared from my family. So it wasn't until we had moved up here to Millerton, where I'm talking to you from now in upstate New York, that I came up with this idea of another book, which was called American Junk. I had my conversion, I call it my junkers conversion, in a little rummage shop here in Millerton that was only open on Sundays, like from 11 to 4. And I'd see people lined up, and I'd say, what could possibly be in this kind of junk shop, you know, with the abandoned goods of other people's lives, old pots and pans and china and glasses? What could be in there that would speak to me? Maybe I was a kind of a snob about collecting at that point, you know, I don't know. But at the same time, I was curious. And I was also, at that time, a little disheartened with collecting, because when I started out, I was really in love with American folk art and samplers and painted furniture and braided rugs and things like that. And Howard and I would go dragging our children to these flea markets all over. And all of a sudden, I was having a hard time finding the things that I desired, or if I found something, it was too expensive. So I think the fun sort of fell out of my collecting for a while until I walked into the rummage shop, the one that I said, what could possibly be in there? And I sidled through these crowded, cluttered aisles, and I started picking up things. And there's this one little statue of the Infant of Prague. I love the Infant of Prague from my Catholic childhood days. And his head had been glued back on, but he was so charming. And I picked him up and I turned him over. Actually, I looked at it the other day, and it still has the sticker on the bottom, 25 cents. Now, that was the moment of my conversion, because I walked out of the ramen shop with a big smile on my face. I'd probably spent $12.94. And I was so happy, you know, the fun was back, and I realized that beauty really is in the eye of the beholder. And the worth of things, the worth of the worthless. You plant that there. Things are valuable not because they have this great providence, but because they speak to you. You are the one that gives it value. And I think all of my books, the 10 books that I've written, are all about trying to give permission to people to go out and find something, whatever it is whether you need it or not, whether you have a place for it or not. But if you fall in love with it and it speaks to you, then you've got to have it.
- [21:07]
Cameron
I love it. You know, 25 cents. That's amazing.
- [21:10]
Mary Randolph Carter
25 cents. And that darn sticker is still on the bottom of that statue. I was so excited when I turned it over the other day. It was just a reminder, you know, that it. That you can find things at a yard sale or an antique. I still go to antique shops, but that was a great reminder to me.
- [21:27]
Cameron
So funny. You know, our mutual friend Doug, when I sat down with him at his house, he said, sometimes you look at the prices of stuff and you say, what did this guy pay for? What did the dealer pay for it? You know, I think about that when they sell you something for 25 cents, it's pretty amazing.
- [21:44]
Mary Randolph Carter
Yeah, it really is. And you know, Doug. Doug is such an old friend. Doug Billmeier we're talking about, who has been so many years the amazing vintage buyer for Ralph Lauren and such an amazing collector. One of the ones that I look up to, for sure.
- [22:00]
Cameron
Yeah, certainly Me too.
- [22:02]
Mary Randolph Carter
You asked me that question, and I was thinking about it about, are there collectors that inspire me?
- [22:09]
Cameron
Yeah.
- [22:09]
Mary Randolph Carter
And Doug is certainly one of them because I think he's so authentic in what he finds and what he loves. But I was thinking about this friend of mine named Sherry Elf who lives in Joshua Tree, California.
- [22:23]
Cameron
Yeah.
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Mary Randolph Carter
And she has this amazing place called. It's a little museum. It's called the World Famous Crochet Museum. And Sherry, all of her life has been collecting these weird crocheted items. Dolls, crocodiles, you know, toaster covers. And she created this museum with. With hundreds and hundreds of these crocheted items. I think. I mean, I featured her in one of my books, but I just have so much respect for her because she just fell in love with this crazy crocheted crocodile or bunny or something. And now she has a little museum for people to. To come and visit.
- [23:05]
Cameron
I love it. What's your perspective on why certain people feel such a deep emotional connection to objects while a lot of people are just so indifferent to them?
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Mary Randolph Carter
Are there people like that?
- [23:20]
Cameron
Definitely not in our world, but outside of our little world. Yes.
- [23:24]
Mary Randolph Carter
You know, it's really. I don't understand that. I mean, I. I'm sure I know plenty of people like that, and I'm just. I'm just a sucker. People say to me, things are things. They're so transitory. And I said, I know, but if they give me joy, if they make me happy, if they remind me of a person or experience, I just find that very rewarding and very helpful. In my book, one of the things that I picked out. And that's what the book is all about, kind of featuring the things in people's homes, the objects, the furniture, a rug, a trunk that have meaning to them. And if they move five times, it would always go with him. If there was a fire, it would be the thing they'd grab, you know, when they. When they ran out of the door. For instance, on my desk, I have a little statue, a little. It's actually a little coin bank, a metal coin bank of George Washington that my father owned. It was a gift from me and one of my sisters. We had a store called American Junk, believe it or not, down in Virginia in an old gas station. And my father's office was right around the corner in this small town where we spent the latter part of our lives. And he came in one day and he. He. He was a great. He loved history. And so he just picked up that George Washington. And of course, Nell and I gave it to him. And for years it was on his desk with a little tag on it saying, too dad. Love American Junk. And after my father passed away and we were cleaning out his office, of course I grabbed George Washington with the little tags still hanging on him, and now it's on my desk. So when I look at him, of course, I think of my father. I think of that office that he lived, you know, that he worked in. And it brings me, you know, it brings me such. Yeah. Happiness, for sure.
- [25:22]
Cameron
Well, I think it's just that exactly, is that there's so many different types of joy and happiness that any human can get from a various group of things, right? Whether it's something you see, something you watch, something someone said, something you own, whatever it may be. But what I find about things, whether they have monetary value or not, is that it's such an objectively rare feeling of joy when something just puts a smile on your face and it invokes a memory. It tantalizes so many senses. And you just don't get that from a lot of things or, you know, other sides of joy, if you will. Do you think, though, that people hold on to objects not because they end up loving them, but because sometimes they're afraid to let them go?
- [26:11]
Mary Randolph Carter
It's possible, you know, I mean, someone was telling me the other night about the joy of giving things away. That doesn't erase the love that they had for this thing. But there was something. They still remember it. But there's something kind of wonderful about giving something away to somebody else. I really believe that. And I love the generosity. I find in this community of collectors. There's a certain kind of generosity. If you go to, you know, an antique show fair and you see something on the table that really speaks to you and you start talking to the person about it and they'll say, you know what? Take it, it's yours. Because I think that they're. And at yard sales too, when people are giving up things that have been part of their lives. And it's difficult in some cases, in some cases not, but usually difficult to give away something that's been part of your life. But if you find someone that you believe is going to take it and give it a new life and make it part of their lives in their homes, then they're really gracious and they please take it. That'll make me so happy.
- [27:19]
Cameron
Yeah, yeah. No, I'm, you know, I. I do love the aspect of, of gifting. It's a big part of what I do on the show and part of my platform and. And, you know, there's just something, you know, not every time I give something do I get a response other than thank you from some people. But sometimes I get a response from people and they're just so grateful. And it's not necessarily what I'm looking to get out of it. It's just something I like to do. But I love when people see the other side of the value in the things that you get for them or that you gift to them. And whether they would have chosen it for themselves or not, you know, there's something that, that happens in that relationship that just changes slightly ever, you know, ever so slightly there. So. Your new book, Live with the Things yous Love and you'd'll Live Happily Ever after explores how people incorporate these personal treasures into their home. Was there something that was really surprising or inspiring to you in some of the interiors that you encountered while working on it?
- [28:17]
Mary Randolph Carter
Well, there are always so many surprises. One of the stories and things that really surprised me was when Carter and I went to Hudson, New York to photograph the studio and home of a woman, a potter named Paula Greif, who lives in a 10 foot wide, if you can believe it, three story home on Warren street in Hudson. And she has her, I don't know what you call it, her pottery studio on the ground floor. And she used to have a shop, although now she does mostly online. And one of the things I love, she had to really downsize everything to move into the. This little house. And she had huge collections of books, and she had put a lot of them, given them away or put them in storage. But the ones that she loved, she really didn't have bookshelves or any place to put them, so she put them in the rungs of her staircase. She made her staircase into sort of a spontaneous bookshelf. And we, we. We photographed that. But that, to me was like, so, so surprising. And I thought, I think I'm going to try that. Books are laying around in mountains of stacks all over the house, and the.
- [29:29]
Cameron
Book features tastemakers, like you said, from all different types of backgrounds, you know, antique dealers and artists and boutique owners. But there's something, I would assume, that unites them in the way that they approach collecting and living with their objects. Would you say that's right?
- [29:43]
Mary Randolph Carter
Well, oh, absolutely. I mean, they're, you know, they all subscribe in some way to living with things that they love. But each one of them lives very differently. I mean, one is a friend of mine that has kind of a more contemporary spare home in the Hamptons, and not the way that I would live. It's much too minimal for me, but it's still. There are things in that home, like her mother's desk, like the painting that she grew up with, that she really despised, but it was her mother's, and she has it hanging on the wall. So, yeah, there are so many different kinds of people in the book, but the thread that unites them is special things in their life that they couldn't live without. My friend Arnaldo Anaya Luca, who's a photographer, lives in New York in what was once an old schoolhouse, and it's basically he lives in a loft. And, yeah, I would say definitely minimal compared to the way that I live. But, you know, I asked him what would be the most important thing in your home? And it was this portrait of his mother and father on their honeymoon. And he has it displayed, you know, in a beautiful way. But, yeah, all these friends of mine, Mary Emmerling, my gosh, she has lives out west most of the time, but she's coming back east. She has a cottage now in. In the Hamptons where she's summered and lived before, and it's filled with red, white and blue and flags flying. And I mean, she really, she speaks to my. My kind of living, but in her own personal way. So I think, you know, everyone. Bethann Hardison, just an incredible woman. She just did an amazing movie called Invisible Beauty. She's lived in her same apartment, like me for, like, decades. And it's just filled with. She was a personal friend of Basquiat. She was a personal friend of Keith Haring. She showed me a plate that Keith Haring. They were out to dinner one night, and he just took a marker and painted a painting on the plate. I think they were at Mr. Chow's or something downtown, probably. Yeah. And she had this great plate that Keith had given her. And one day she started to. Like, it was dusty, so she started to clean it, and all of a sudden she realized that she was removing Keith's drawing. And she was like, she saved it, though. But so each story is just so different, and everyone is just so open to tell their story because, like me, they believe in promoting to people. You know, I was going to name this book originally when it was at the beginning of the pandemic, you Can't Take it with you, which is a good line for a woman like me who's at a certain age and been collecting for so many years. And during the pandemic, I think I looked around and saw, oh, my gosh, all this stuff, you know, in the house. In the carriage house, in the barn. I mean, my children, what am I. I've got to do something about this. And. And I said, well, they're thinking, I think there are a lot of collectors like me, so maybe it would be meaningful to do a book call. You can't take it with you, so get to work, figure out. But my publisher thought that was very dark. Maybe I'll do that someday. Anyway, because when I. When I started with the American Junk series, everyone said, how can you do a book with junk on the title? But that seemed to speak to people.
- [33:22]
Cameron
What's interesting about all of this is that you write about the idea of our prized possessions and how they tell us something about who we are. And I think for a collector, we could walk into someone's home and understand who that person is based on their collections and what they have displayed right away. Right. It's just maybe this innate ability that we have. But for those that don't have the opportunity to walk into your living room or walk into your home in Millerton, what do you think that your collections reveal about you?
- [33:55]
Mary Randolph Carter
That I'm a romantic. That I believe in memory and the past. That I believe in sharing the things that I love with other people so I wouldn't hide them away in a drawer. Yeah. I guess they would walk in, or maybe they just think, oh, who's the crazy woman that lives here? No, I think that definitely reveals my sort of more romantic nature mixed in maybe with a little bit of eclectic creativity, certainly.
- [34:29]
Cameron
And something I love about this new book and actually all of your books, is that as much as it's about collecting, it's really even more so about storytelling through objects. Did you find that with this most recent book that the collectors you would visit, some of the objects seem to have carried maybe more emotional weight for them. You know, they were so excited to show you these one or two things in the home that really had this crazy story that, you know, you could see them, their eyes watering as they're telling you about it. I mean, were these. Were there these types of patterns and what people really held onto?
- [35:03]
Mary Randolph Carter
Oh, definitely. Definitely. I would say this is probably one of the most emotional books that I've ever written and gave these people, persons, friends, an opportunity to share those emotions about these objects. I read something somewhere that inside every object there is a God. And I believe that. And I believe that they're truly tied. The stories that they tell are tied to the people that love them and live with them.
- [35:38]
Cameron
Right. It's like your friend that has that plate from Keith Haring. If an average, maybe art collector who just puts things on display and never talks about them or keeps them away from people owns something like that, it's a completely different trajectory of its history and the emotional weight that that item carries versus your friend who has this amazing story to tell of being at Mr. Chow. I mean, there's photos of Keith Haring and Basquiat warhol all at Mr. Chow back in the day. Just the camaraderie you can feel and put yourself in those exact scenarios. And that's what I really love.
- [36:11]
Mary Randolph Carter
I'm talking to a friend of mine recently who's working on a new book, and her publisher insists that she have at least two celebrities in the book. I was so shocked by this fact that she has to. She has to find a celebrity to sell a book. My. This book, all of my books have just been about real people living their lives and sharing their stories through their homes and the things that they love.
- [36:36]
Cameron
And so many people look up to you and the way that you collect and style things. And I think that styling and displaying objects is something that a lot of collectors really struggle with, and they struggle to do it intentionally rather than make something feel cluttered or too busy or, you know, displayed in the wrong way. What advice do you have that kind of. Is your method to the madness for integrating collections stylishly into a home?
- [37:05]
Mary Randolph Carter
Oh, boy. Well, you know, I'm not very good with. With how to. I never. I never have been. I just sort of believe. And I. I don't know, I think I was, I guess, blessed with some kind of an organic instinct about displaying things. And I. I love contradictions. Like, I'm sitting in our kitchen right now, and for Thanksgiving, my son Carter and his wife Kasha, always. We celebrate here at Elm Glen. And they always bring us, Howard and me, some kind of wonderful object. Usually it's some form of a turkey, you know, a funny folk art turkey or something like that. But this year, they gave me. Gave us this beautiful little orange pickup truck. I love pickup trucks. And I planted it right here in the center of this island in our kitchen. And now I have, like, someone gave me a little bouquet of flowers. So there's always a plant or flowers sitting in the back of the truck there. I put little votive candles, the battery operated ones, by the way, lining the running board. And so I light those up at night. And so this little truck's gonna stay here probably till next Thanksgiving when they bring me something else. I just love having things out in the open. When we redid this kitchen, I didn't really want cupboards. I just wanted shelves, open shelves so I could display my funny Natalie Leyte plates. And I collect polka dot things. So I have, you know, polka dot pitchers and creamers and children's polka dot tea sets, and they're all out in the open so that when I look up, or I can. I can just fall in love with them again. They're not hidden away in a drawer or a cupboard. Certainly if you love something, don't, don't, you know, just don't. You'll find a way to. And I just love the idea of mixing things. You know, that you can have a very modern chair, but throw a beautiful old textile blanket over it.
- [39:12]
Cameron
I love it. And I think the overarching idea of all of that is put things where your heart and your eye kind of tells you to and where you want to see it. The truck doesn't necessarily have to sit on a bookshelf because it's more of a truck object. Repurpose it to put flowers in it and put it on your kitchen island. So I love that you mentioned in the book your friend that had stacked her book collection up, up the stairwell because, you know, she had to downsize. Were there any other objects that Were displayed completely, you know, in a surprising way that really challenged your ideas of what good design looks like.
- [39:53]
Mary Randolph Carter
First of all, I. I don't know that I have, like, a real, meaningful definition of good design. Yeah, I think I believe in personal.
- [40:03]
Cameron
Sure.
- [40:04]
Mary Randolph Carter
Personal design. And I feel like a home should reflect the personalities of the people that live there. One home that I'm thinking of that we photographed in Providence, Rhode island, was lived in by a woman that. She was a fashion designer. And she designed beautiful little dresses made of floral prints. And she has stacks and stacks of those. Those vintage pieces of fabric piled upstairs, like along a bench, you know, benches and chairs in her. In the hallway of her. Upstairs of her home. And I just love that, you know, she could have put them in trunks, but she. She had them out to continue to inspire her. And they. They really inspired me. But again, what really excites, inspires me when I walk into someone's home is when I see things that are obviously very personal and reveal something about who they are and what they love.
- [41:06]
Cameron
Certainly.
- [41:07]
Mary Randolph Carter
But I also believe that if you're going to collect, there are a few things you need to, I think, keep in mind after all these years, I think about this, and that one is you have to have a little discipline. You know, you can't just clutter up your home in every surface with stuff. Yeah. You have to try to find a way to be disciplined and organize it so that it can be enjoyed. And I also think, and you know this because you have a partner and you have a child.
- [41:38]
Cameron
Right.
- [41:39]
Mary Randolph Carter
That you have to think about the people that you share, even your friends that, you know, come into your life in your home so that, you know, my husband just wanted one comfortable chair to sit in. And finally I. I found him one. It wasn't it. It was an old chair, but I had it kind of re. Redone and then the dog took it over. But I. And they always wanted my. My two sons and my husband. They always wanted a nice long sofa. So if they wanted to take a nap, you know, and just spread out and. I hate sofas. Why do I hate sofas? Because I wasn't going to buy an old vintage sofa because it probably wasn't practical or sanitary. But I've ended up, you know, buying sofas over the years. But what I do is I kind of camouflage them a little bit by laying, you know, vintage blankets or pillows on them. So you have to be aware and you have to make some compromises, particularly when your people and friends don't love what you Love. But my husband, he's. You know, my gosh, after 53 years, I think he's agreed to the way that, you know, the things that I love. He once walked through our house here in Millerton, and after the second room, he said, Carter, I'm already up to 138 paintings on the wall. This is crazy.
- [43:08]
Cameron
Sometimes we just can't stop. I love it.
- [43:10]
Mary Randolph Carter
He's a saint.
- [43:12]
Cameron
Some people collect for nostalgia and others for aesthetics, and some for history. How do you personally decide what belongs in your homes?
- [43:22]
Mary Randolph Carter
I don't think I have any rules, any rigid rules about that. Like I said, I've always tried to give permission to people to just fall in love with whatever they love, but I always have a sense. We live in an old house built in late 1800s, I guess. And so I love the idea of having some pieces that reflect that time in histories, you know, whether it's in a beautiful old painted table or a painting. But I don't know, Cameron. I think I'm just. I think I always find that you'll find a place for it. If you have a place for it in your heart, you'll find a place for it in your heart. Home. That's kind of the way I've always been.
- [44:09]
Cameron
That might be another book title. You should save that one.
- [44:12]
Mary Randolph Carter
I think I do have a book named that. Ever stop to think, do I have a place for this?
- [44:18]
Cameron
Right, right. Exactly. Have you ever acquired something and had that buyer's remorse only for it to be something that you couldn't part with?
- [44:28]
Mary Randolph Carter
I don't think I ever had that happen to me.
- [44:31]
Cameron
Wow, you're. You're an anomaly.
- [44:33]
Mary Randolph Carter
I think there have been things that I left behind that I had, that I felt remorseful for. Why didn't I? You know, there was a painting, a velvet painting of Elvis. You know, I. You know, I'm a big Elvis fan since I was the president of his fan club in seventh grade. So I just remember seeing this really tacky velvet, you know, version of Elvis on his guitar, probably in that ugly white suit with fringe on it. And I said, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't need that. And then, of course, the minute I got home, I thought, why didn't I buy that? And I've never seen one like it again.
- [45:13]
Cameron
You know, something that we often hear about is letting go and decluttering for mental clarity and all this, you know, witchcraft stuff that makes you feel better. But, you know, your book actually takes the opposite stance. All of your books kind of take the opposite stance. And. And that's that, you know, we should surround ourselves with what we love and enrich our lives with those things. Do you think, though, that there's maybe a tipping point where even the most meaningful objects can become overwhelming?
- [45:42]
Mary Randolph Carter
Oh, yes, of course. Yeah. I definitely ascribe to that. I don't know that I. You know, I philosophically agree with that, but physically, I haven't. I don't know that I'm very good at doing that. But like my friend Bethann talks about, you know, the lighter the load, the. You know, the better the life. And she. She thinks of me. When I asked her if to be part of this book, she said, you know, she sort of accused me of being like a hoarder and having too much stuff, cluttered life. And then when I walked into her house, I saw, you know, walls filled with these beautiful Haitian paintings and textiles and African baskets that she'd collected. And I said, come on, Bethann. She said, I know, but she said, they're things that just give you a jolt of joy, and you can't just get rid of them. You have to find a way to live with them. But, yes, and you don't want to just. If you just have too much stuff. And that gets back to the discipline of organizing them. I think there can be a tipping point where you have so much. You don't see the beauty in the individual beauty, because there's so much. And so what do you do about that? Howard proposes that I go into the barn this summer with a big dumpster outside and really start to sort through the stuff. Like, there we are. You can't. You, you know, you. You can't take it with you. But I just remember one summer, cleaning out that barn, we were getting ready to have a wedding for Carter and his wife. Kasha got married on the grounds, on the property here. And so I thought we might have a big party in the barn. So I started to clean it out, and I just. I was obsessed, and I just threw out so many things that I regret now. But there is something, you know, about letting go, having love something and then letting it go, just like people in our lives.
- [47:46]
Cameron
That's very true. So, you know, your. Your collecting and your. Your love for all of this stuff, I would say, has probably been an influence for you as a creative director at ralph, and they've both probably influenced, I would assume, the way your eye, you know, turns for objects and storytelling. How does your approach to collecting overlap with your work in fashion and design? Or does it Not.
- [48:13]
Mary Randolph Carter
It definitely does overlap in some ways. I mean, that first day, I walked into Ralph's office and saw the beautiful clutter that he loved living with, which was toy cars and dolls and things that were, like, curated on his desk or not curated so much as just living there. And the paintings on the walls, which were pictures that his children, his three children had done for him, or beautiful black and white photography. And there was this kind of beautiful, you know, eclectic mix of things. In that moment, I knew, you know, that there was a synergy there that would follow me through whatever I did for him. So, you know, I. For 17 years, I worked on an advertising, you know, helping to create and bring his world to life through photography, working with various photographers. It's really funny. On the first shoot that I went on, I had no idea of the deep archives of props and things that were part of our advertising archives. And so I actually went to California and brought my chairs and braided rugs and knickknacks, thinking that I would style, you know, the set to find out there was a huge truck filled with almost the same things that I brought. But definitely, there's definitely been overlap. Ralph loves things that are, you know, get better with age. Well, come on. So do I.
- [49:51]
Cameron
There you go.
- [49:53]
Mary Randolph Carter
He loves contradiction. He loves the idea of a safari jacket, an old safari jacket worn over a beaded gown. That's the way I love to dress, you know, with old and new, with contradictions, with. And the way that I live in our home, it's about. About creating those sort of. Sometimes they're just impulsive and spontaneous, but contradictions and a kind of eclectic beauty. And so I think all of that is definitely, you know, seeing what he does. And the great teams of people like Doug Billmeier that have worked with him for so long have definitely, you know, inspired me. I'm looking at an old armchair here in our kitchen that's covered with three kinds of sort of Serapi fabrics. One is an old sort, an old Serapi blanket that I just poster the chair with. But it's a great mix, and it could be a Ralph Lauren chair, but it's a Carter chair.
- [51:01]
Cameron
It certainly works. I love that. If there is one message that you hope readers take away from the new book, what would that be?
- [51:12]
Mary Randolph Carter
Just believe in yourself. Believe in what you love. Have the freedom to never feel guilty about something that you've fallen in love with. Is no wack. As wacky as it is. Don't look over your shoulder. Look straight ahead. I've said it before, it's just that old cliche. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And I think sometimes we think that we have to look at magazines or even books like mine for ideas. And I just believe in. Believe in your own self and your style. But, you know, we all need help and direction and inspiration. I mean, I have stacks and stacks of magazines that like the World of Interiors or Cabana that I would never throw away. And I love looking through them because I love reading the stories and seeing some of the shabby chic things that people have lived with that give me confidence too, to try things. So I don't know, I'm always just thrilled when I hear from someone and they actually spent time not just looking at my books, but reading the words. And that makes me feel so gratified. And now it's time to start a new book.
- [52:31]
Cameron
I love that. Before we wrap it up with the Collector's Gene rundown, I actually have a couple questions from the listeners that I'd love to ask you. And the first one is, what are Carter's favorite vintage and antique stores? These could be in New York. These could be anywhere in the world. Do you have any favorites?
- [52:49]
Mary Randolph Carter
Well, unfortunately, and sadly a lot of the places that I love no longer exist. Talking to someone about, you know, shopping on the Internet versus the live experience of going to a flea market, which for me there's obviously for all die hard collectors, there's no comparison. But in the early days of collecting in New York City, there was a flea market. Thankfully, there still is one down on around 28th street and 6th Avenue that I still return to. I was just there a couple of weeks ago. There's one vendor there named Janet west that I've followed forever. She used to be in this place called the garage on 26th street in that same area. That was just an amazing experience up here in the country. I'm so lucky because there's some really wonderful shops right in Millerton. Hunter B. Is one of them. Jonathan and Kent were in my books at one point. But one of the special places, you know, Cameron, I love old books. And there's an amazing place called Rogers Book Barn. And Maureen Rogers, a wonderful English woman, Jane Austen would have loved her. She just has this wonderful old house in the middle of nowhere, just crammed with the most beautiful books and so fairly priced. And that's one of my favorite, favorite places.
- [54:16]
Cameron
I love that. Can't wait to check that out. The next question is a little broad, and I don't think that it might Be a tough one to answer, but it's. Do you have a favorite vintage find? And I know that's probably really tough for you to answer because you love all the things, but maybe we could twist it because we could say, does your husband Howard have a favorite vintage find of yours that he gave his stamp of approval on that he really loves to this day?
- [54:44]
Mary Randolph Carter
I probably. Howard always loved transportation. I always said that was the things that he liked to collect. He, his transportation collection. So like he loves this new truck that we, this new old truck that we have and, and, and I have a few and he, he actually has collected some beautiful little toy airplanes and trains and things like that favorite thing of, of mine that he loves is probably this big painting that we have hanging in our so called dining room that's a, a beautiful landscape that looks like the mountains that we look, we look at from probably the Berkshire hills that we look at from this house.
- [55:25]
Cameron
Amazing. The other one which might be a curveball for you is people want to know what locations are in your weather app.
- [55:34]
Mary Randolph Carter
What locations are in my weather app?
- [55:37]
Cameron
Yes.
- [55:39]
Mary Randolph Carter
Oh my gosh. Paris, London, New York, of course, Richmond, Virginia. Is that what you mean?
- [55:47]
Cameron
Yeah, yeah, I think they want to know. I think that gives them an idea of the places maybe that you like to frequent and maybe where you like to, you know, antique shop a little bit.
- [55:58]
Mary Randolph Carter
Yeah, well, it's wherever I land. Like even Cleveland.
- [56:03]
Cameron
That's right. There's antique shops everywhere, right?
- [56:05]
Mary Randolph Carter
Yes.
- [56:06]
Cameron
I love it. Let's wrap it up with the collector's gene rundown. We've done this before. You can answer these based on truly anything. So the first one is, what's the one that got away?
- [56:15]
Mary Randolph Carter
Well, I think I told you that the one that got away was that velvet painting of Elvis.
- [56:21]
Cameron
Yep. How about the on deck circle? So what's next for you in collecting? Maybe something you're hunting after in your mind.
- [56:28]
Mary Randolph Carter
You know, I have two grandchildren now, sunny and ever that are like three and seven years old. And so I think I'm really thinking a lot about collecting beautiful old children's books for them. I love that for their library.
- [56:43]
Cameron
That's a great idea because the ones that come out now aren't necessarily too good looking.
- [56:48]
Mary Randolph Carter
No. But you know, I think maybe I told you this once that my mother's always said we were somehow related to Robert Louis Stevenson. So I love giving them copies of Treasure island, you know, in any the Garden of. What's that wonderful book of. The Child's Garden of Nursery Rhymes or something that he wrote. So I'm definitely a fan of Stevenson.
- [57:11]
Cameron
That's. That's pretty special. How about the unobtainable? So this is something that's maybe just too expensive in a museum. Private collection, Just complete Unobtainium.
- [57:20]
Mary Randolph Carter
When the Whitney was open on Madison Avenue, the first Whitney, there was a display, and it's in the new Whitney now. But when you walked in Calders, there was a replica. Not a replica. There was Calder's Circus, Alexander Calders Circus, that he made out of all these amazing pieces of wire. I couldn't own it. I would love to own it. But instead, my son Carter, when he was around seven, we kind of created a replica of it. And some of those wire circus creatures still hang on our Christmas tree every year.
- [57:55]
Cameron
Oh, I love that. That's special. How about the page one rewrite? So if you could collect anything else besides what you currently collect and money was no object, what would it be? Is there anything that you always wish you got into early on and things just got a little too crazy?
- [58:11]
Mary Randolph Carter
Truthfully, I can't think of anything. I can't think of anything in that category.
- [58:16]
Cameron
I love it. Maybe just an extra barn to put some things.
- [58:19]
Mary Randolph Carter
Well, that might be a good idea. Yes.
- [58:23]
Cameron
So how about the goat? Besides Doug and your friend Sherry and Joshua Tree, is there anyone that you look up to in the collecting world Besides them?
- [58:31]
Mary Randolph Carter
Maybe O'Keeffe. You know, maybe Georgia O'Keeffe. I just loved the way she was inspired by nature and. And just collected all those bones and skulls and her, you know, the spareness and beauty of her, the way she lived, her art and her home.
- [58:50]
Cameron
I love it. How about the hunt or the ownership? Which one do you enjoy more?
- [58:54]
Mary Randolph Carter
Well, I love both, but there's nothing like the thrill of the hunt.
- [59:01]
Cameron
And most importantly, do you feel that you're born with the collector's gene?
- [59:05]
Mary Randolph Carter
What do you think?
- [59:06]
Cameron
I think there's no doubt in my mind. If I had to put a dollar on it, I sure would. That's amazing, Carter. Thank you so much for coming on Collector's Dream Radio. And I want to do something special for all the listeners today, and I want to give away a copy to someone of all of your books. You know, one copy to each person. And I'll figure out a way on how to do that, and I'll keep you in the loop on that. But I think it'd be really special for people that don't have copies of them to get one. And maybe I could ask you if you'd be willing to also give a signed copy to someone of your new book as well.
- [59:43]
Mary Randolph Carter
Absolutely. I would love to. I would love to do a personal signing of live with the things that you love and you'll live happily ever after.
- [59:51]
Cameron
Amazing. We'll work on that together and I'll keep you in the loop on how we can do that. But for now, thank you so much again for coming on Collector's Dream Radio. I had a smile on my face the whole time and as I always do when I catch up with you, so your time is greatly appreciated.
- [60:05]
Mary Randolph Carter
Oh, thanks so much. I did, too. I'm still smiling.
- [60:09]
Cameron
Well, we'll have to do it again soon. Part three is always in the question for us. So thanks again, Carter. Really appreciate it.
- [60:16]
Mary Randolph Carter
You're so welcome. Welcome. Thank you.
- [60:20]
Cameron
All right, that does it for this episode. Thank you all for listening to Collector's Gene Radio.