Loading summary
Transcript101 lines
- [00:00]
Advertiser
You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. Stop struggling to get your job post seen on other job sites with Indeed sponsored jobs. Your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people you want faster. According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed have 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. Don't wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com Arts. Just go to Indeed.com Arts right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.
- [00:55]
Steven Rodell
Designing with complete abandon with an unlimited amount of money is a huge privilege. But actually, when you have a budget, sometimes you can weirdly be sort of more creative because you do have to sort of think. Think a little harder because it's just not so easy. You know, it's like cooking with something with the limited ingredients. You know you've got to make it taste as good as it can, but you only have a very limited ingredient. You have to apply yourself in a different way.
- [01:28]
Cameron
What's going on, everybody? And welcome to Collector's Gene Radio. This is all about diving into the nuances of collecting and ultimately finding out whether or not our guests have what we like to call the Collector's Gene. If you have the time, please subscribe and leave a review. It truly helps. Thanks a bunch for listening and please enjoy Today's guest on Collector's Gene Radio Today on Collector's Gene Radio, joined by Steven Rodell, the creative director at Guy Goodfellow, a studio shaped by the namesake singular vision over 25 years. Steven works closely with Guy and that legacy, helping bring to life interiors that thread eras together with grace, intuition, and a rare kind of spatial intelligence. The studio's work doesn't shout. It unfolds and draws you in slowly to rooms built on quiet conviction. We explore the idea of design as a form of collecting. Steven speaks to the delicate choreography behind layering decades, balancing restraint with richness and knowing when a single object should lead and when it should take a step back. There's a certain kind of magic in the studio's work. It doesn't rely on spectacle. Instead, it reveals itself slowly through the tensions of textures, the conversation between eras, and the placement of one well loved object beside another. In many ways, Steven's role is less about decoration and more about composition, an ongoing act of collecting, editing and storytelling. So, without further ado, this is Stephen Rodell for Collector's Gene Radio. Stephen, welcome to Collector's Gene Radio.
- [03:02]
Steven Rodell
Thank you very much for having me. Thank you.
- [03:04]
Cameron
It's my pleasure working alongside Guy, the orchestrator of the magic that goes on at Guy Goodfellow. You now play a pivotal role at the practice. And I'd love to know what drew you into this world of richly layered interiors, especially being based in the uk. I mean, where did this all begin for you?
- [03:20]
Steven Rodell
I think it all began with my great aunt, really. She was, or is, you know, a wonderful woman. A big. A big sort of influence in my life. She was in the sort of jewelry trade, you know, for many decades. She's sort of long retired now, and she's a jeweler. And then she had a small gallery in Somerset, and she started with jewelry and then went to deal in sort of decorative arts. And I think she was a person that I would go to visit when I was younger for sort of weekends and school holidays. And of course, Saturdays were always spent in the shop, in the gallery. And, you know, that was the place whereby I really started to look at objects, decorative arts, jewelry, and really try to sort of understand them and appreciate them. And she also had this wonderful house that obviously I'd stay at. And it was sort of quite different from the house that I grew up in because it was so richly layered and it was so eccentric, and it was sort of like theater. I mean, she was also in the theater from a sort of lighting perspective. So it was always a place that was filled with interesting objects, people lighting. And that really was where, I guess my. My interest was. Was piqued. And through her sort of, you know, encouragement and nurturing, it sort of spiraled from there.
- [04:58]
Cameron
Amazing. And you go on to have an incredibly rich and very design career, seeing and working on wonderful properties all over the world. And you're now creative director at Guy Goodfellow. What was that? Trans.
- [05:09]
Steven Rodell
Well, I think that there actually isn't a fundamental difference. I mean, the difference is that we have people that come in and they pay for our services, and you're working on a diverse portfolio of projects. And it's sort of the same thing with what I did before. And you're just working for one family, but really what you're doing is you're trying to translate their character. You're trying to create something that, as I recently read or heard something in a. In a podcast, they described interior design as being like sort of self portraiture. And, you know, you're creating portraits that are demonstrating or reflective of the people that live in them.
- [05:50]
Cameron
I would love to know from you, you know, you saw so much growing up with your family, kind of being in this design and antique space, and you kind of stuck along that path, really, your whole life. What were you interested in and what were you collecting a long time ago? And how has that evolved into what you're collecting now? Because, you know, the more you see, the more your ears perk up and the more interest you get in things that are, you know, sometimes they're more rare, sometimes they're just more sophisticated. Sometimes your taste just changes.
- [06:24]
Steven Rodell
I mean, I think I knew from, you know, very early on, I mean, probably sort of 12 or 13, I would say I wanted to be an interior designer. And, you know, I remember when I was at school and you have to go on these sort of career, Go to the careers council or something, and you talk about what you're going to do at university, and I said, well, I think I want to go and do an interior design course. And everybody sort of. Nobody was particularly that trick about that. And so, you know, I actually, I went to study art history, architecture history and design. And that seemed like a good way, a sort of good compromise. You know, it felt that it was. It was academic, and that if I wanted to do something in design after it, well, that would give you a good sort of academic foundation. I think what interested me were rooms, were homes, were buildings that were telling stories. They were sort of narratives for someone, something. And I think, you know, the richer they were, the more layered they were, the more sort of eccentric. That sort of interested me. They had to feel like they had evolved. They had to feel like they had genuinely been created over a period of time, certainly.
- [07:39]
Cameron
And I think that that speaks to so much about what Guy Goodfellow is all about. It's. It's the layers. And, you know, Guy often speaks about this. Right.
- [07:48]
Steven Rodell
It's.
- [07:49]
Cameron
It's about mixing the best of every decade. Right. And. And you, as a creative director, how do you maintain that balance, ensuring that each space feels so timeless rather than referential and sophisticated? I would say, rather than styled. Right.
- [08:05]
Steven Rodell
Yeah. I mean, we joked yesterday that in a. In a client presentation that, you know, the client sort of suggested something and Guy said, oh, no, but if we put that in there, then one might think that your interior designer had just left. So how do we temper it? I mean, I think instinct is so important. I mean, instinctively, I know if something's going to work or if it doesn't, I mean, I'm just finishing a project at the moment with a huge list of sort of items to procure. And I think we're about three weeks away from finishing, which seems quite daunting. But actually it doesn't matter because all of those items that aren't record yet will be antiques. And I can sit there for hours and then suddenly I'll find something that I just. I instantly know that that's going to work for that space. You know, it's the right sort of composition, shape, form, design. It's just going to sort of feel like it's always supposed to have been there, certainly.
- [09:03]
Cameron
And I think I would love for you to explain to the listeners because I think this is something that people who aren't in the interior design world or design world in general, I think this is something that they may not understand, is that you guys are constantly on the hunt collecting for things because you have projects that lust for these types of items. And it might not work for the current project, but it could be a project four years down the road. And you're going to go into your studio or your warehouse or wherever you keep these items and you're going to say, oh my gosh, I'm so happy I bought this thing, or this, this commode, because it fits absolutely perfect. So explain to the listeners what it's like to just constantly be on the hunt for items, even if you don't necessarily have a place for them yet.
- [09:47]
Steven Rodell
I spend my life down these sort of rabbit holes on auction at, on specific auction sort of websites, on the sale room dealer websites. I mean, when I go to bed at night, most people either watch television or read. And I sort of lie in bed scrolling through, you know, looking at whatever's peaking by interest on that particular day, you know, yesterday with sort of balaction Dutch mirrors. I mean, and sometimes, you know, after page, I don't know, 29 or something of pairs of chairs of the 1940s, you actually sort of think, God, that's it, I can't do anymore. I've got to turn over and go to bed. I mean, it's just an insatiable thirst for sort of just for just finding things and, you know, finding things and being inspired by things. And sometimes you don't even buy them. You just, you know, you, you park it as a reference point. You find a great pair of stools and you think, well, I, I have no place for those now. But I sort of, you know, put it in a little folder and I'll. I'll come back to it and, you know, and. And one day I'll either hope to find it or maybe I'll have to, you know, recreate it or be inspired by it. I just. I'm always. And guys the same and just always on the look for something. I mean, if I wasn't an interior designer, I probably would be a dealer. But the problem is I wouldn't really want to give anything up.
- [11:14]
Cameron
I'm with you there. I think that that's always the problem is you find all these amazing pieces and you have the benefit of being in the UK and having access to what I would consider the best of the best is in the UK and Europe. And it's not that difficult to get pieces. For me, every time I see an amazing piece of furniture and I see either the. The pound symbol or the. The euro symbol, I have to pass because getting it shipped to the US is just a whole other issue. But it's always a problem for me. I'd love to talk about a practice or a belief that you and Guy have at the firm, and that's that a home should feel like a personal collection built over time. Right. You and Guy often speak of. Of this layering of decades that I mentioned and textures and pieces from vastly different eras. Is your role, would you say, more akin to that of a collector than a decorator? Because you're almost, like you said, you're shopping constantly and you're constantly editing and shaping this deeply personal anthology of objects and influence.
- [12:16]
Steven Rodell
Well, I've often thought maybe it was about sort of. Without sounding pretentious, but maybe it's a sort of role of a curator. And interestingly, you know, when I did my undergraduate art history, for a moment, I sort of thought, I'll become a curator. That's what I'll go and do. I'll go and work in a gallery, and I won't do interiors. And then as time went by and I ended up in London and I ended up not doing a master's in museum and Gallery studies for various reasons, primarily because I just fell into the world of design. I sort of felt that actually it wasn't so different to sort of being a curator because you are curating collections, you are putting things together, you are selecting. It's a curator and editor. It's one of the same. I'm not sure, but they sort of imply the same thing.
- [13:04]
Cameron
You know, something that I always ask off air, and I don't know why I never ask it on Air. Maybe I haven't, I'm just not remembering. But can you take the listeners behind the curtain a little bit and explain to them, you know, when you're doing a project, right, each project is different. There's a budget, sometimes there's not a budget, but you want to make it. You want to fill the space with really incredible pieces. And a lot of times that comes with having to spend a little bit of money and, you know, up your budget a little bit. What would you say the difference is like between working with someone with no budget when it comes to sourcing antiques and furniture and all that stuff versus someone with a little bit of a tighter budget and you really have to go out there and find the best that you can for the money?
- [13:48]
Steven Rodell
Well, I think sometimes, I mean, I think interior designers at a certain level do become a bit blase and you sort of bound about these, these, these values or figures on things. And we all come a bit, we become a little desensitized. Especially when you're sort of doing it for yourself. I mean, my partner and I have just finished renovating our flat in London and you know, some of the things that I was putting forward and he kept on reminding me that we didn't have my clients budgets. And you do become a little desensitized to it. I think that actually designing with complete abandon with an unlimited amount of money is a huge privilege. It's also a big responsibility. And I've been so lucky and I'm so grateful to have worked on these projects. But actually, when you have a budget, sometimes you can weirdly be sort of more creative because you do have to sort of think a little harder because it's just not so easy. You know, it's like cooking with something with the limited ingredients. You know, you've got to make it taste as good as it can, but you only have a very limited ingredient. You have to apply yourself in a different way.
- [14:58]
Cameron
How do you determine when you know a collection, whether it's with a grouping of antiques or it's a piece of furniture or it's a commode? How do you determine when an object or a group of objects should lead a room and when do you decide when they should just quietly support it? Right. Is there a rule of restraint or is it kind of more intuitive?
- [15:20]
Steven Rodell
Oh, I think it's quite intuitive. I think you, I think you just sort of know. I mean, I think there's, there's that whole, there's that, that saying of, you know, putting on too much jewelry and Then you sort of take something off as you leave. Leave the house. And, you know, sometimes. I recently worked on a project with a great collection of beautiful French furniture. And the client sort of wanted everything, you know, everything that she had sort of amassed for years with this apartment in London in mind. And we. We settled on. No matter how many times we did the floor plans, we sort of couldn't quite get it all in. And in the end, we sort of had it all delivered and it was like taking off a brooch at the end. You know, it was sort of the room, I don't know. So it was like a sort of reverse selection process, if that makes any sort of sense.
- [16:11]
Cameron
Certainly.
- [16:12]
Steven Rodell
I mean, I think in rooms you have. You have your anchors. You know, you have a great painting, you have a great commode. You have. I think it's, you know, a beautiful dining table. I think those. Those are often. There's really noticeable pieces that sort of. They sit to command attention. And then I guess it's then putting in the things in the background that layer it, that make it feel evolved over time.
- [16:46]
Cameron
I love that. I would have to imagine that you work with some clients that know exactly what they like to collect. In fact, maybe they, like you said, they've already got a head start and have a whole collection of French furniture. And other clients are really lost. They don't know what they like. They don't know what they want to collect. They don't know what they want an object to really look like in their home. How do you help the clients that truly want to collect but don't know how to kind of uncover that and make their space?
- [17:14]
Steven Rodell
Well, I think it's up to us to sort of try and shepherd them in the right direction. I mean, I think when people come. Come to Guy and they come here and they come to Langton street, which is a really special place. It is a home, you know, it is a house. It is the design studio. It's the collection. It's also Guy's London house. And you get. You get a real sense of. Of what we can create, you know, what we enjoy. And I think for those clients that are perhaps a little more not as defined in terms of what they want or perhaps they don't know yet, coming here really sort of distils it for them because they see firsthand what they can have. Because they come to us because they enjoy the style, they enjoy that sort of particular aesthetic.
- [18:10]
Cameron
They kind of look up to you guys to assist them and kind of guide them through the process of, you know, not necessarily what's the most rare, but what makes a collection great, or what makes an item within a collection stand out in a room?
- [18:25]
Steven Rodell
I think so. I mean, seldomly do we have people that come and don't know what they want. I mean, even if they say at the beginning they don't know. Generally, if you, you ask the right questions and you try to understand them and you try to. Again, it goes back to this idea of trying to create an interior that is truly reflective of the people that live in it. So it reflects their interests, their personality, their character. It's about trying to sort of tease that out. And if you ask those questions and you get to know those people in a very legitimate, in a very real way, then the interiors then sort of form around it.
- [19:07]
Cameron
Right? Like types of questions, like, what matters to you? Do you host a lot? Are you having family over often? Where's your favorite place to usually relax in the home? Right.
- [19:17]
Steven Rodell
Yeah, exactly. You know, how do you entertain? You know, do you want a kitchen that has a table in it? Do you want a separate dining room? Do you want open plan living? There are just so many questions, so many probing questions that bring out quite a distilled sense of grief by the end of it.
- [19:36]
Cameron
Being based in the uk, you're obviously heavily influenced by your surroundings, right? You have these old Georgian homes and Edwardian homes and all these amazing details that are really specific to England. What other parts around the world really inspire you and Guy in terms of design? I mean, sometimes, like you said, you get desensitized to everything else because you're seeing so much of the same thing. Not that architecture isn't incredible in the uk, but there's a lot else to be seen. So I'd love to know where else you guys draw inspiration from in terms of places. Would you say Milan has such distinct design and Paris is so different from Provence? You know, what are, what are the different, I guess, places across the world that, that inspire you and Guy to design homes and design interiors? Or are you strictly solely focused on England heritage?
- [20:39]
Steven Rodell
No, I don't think so. I mean, I've worked a lot internationally over the years and I think, and as has Guy. I think a lot of our projects currently are in the UK and we're working on lots of very interesting things here. I guess with any type of travel, you, you know, you're slightly intoxicated and you come back and you then you think about that and I mean, for example, last year I was in South Africa in Mozambique. And I remember staying at this lodge with these amazing sort of, you know, matted woven reeds, and you would sort of walk a pad around this. This lodge with these amazing rugs made out of these sort of natural fibers. And I remember, you know, we then went to find where they were being made, and we went and I came back to London with all of these. With all these samples, and Guy said, well, what is that for? And I said, well, I mean, I was just so interested. I mean, yeah, but where are you ever going to use it? I said, well, I guess we'll have to have, you know, sort of snag a lodge project in sort of Mozambique or South Africa or something, because it was only really relevant to there. Like, you couldn't. You wouldn't have used it here. So I guess it's about. Wherever you're traveling, it's about being inspired by that place and sort of thinking and having that in your. In your sort of library of ideas when you might just end up working there.
- [22:01]
Cameron
In your view, what do you think distinguishes a beautiful room from a collected room? Because it's easy to walk into a room and say, yes, it's beautiful. Great lighting, nice furniture, you know, good design, you know, nice original moldings. But there's a difference between that and a room that feels collected.
- [22:20]
Steven Rodell
So I always think a room that is. Well, that is evolved over time, that is collected, there will be elements in that room that look slightly like they don't belong. So they're the thing that has, you know, they're the chair that wasn't designed for the room, but it's been brought in because the other chair's no longer there. It wasn't comfortable. Something else has been brought in. So it means the fabric on it is slightly off with the scheme. I guess there might be a slight discrepancy in scale. I mean, if you think about great rooms that have sort of been well collected, there is a genuine sense of patina. Whereas in beautiful rooms that were sort of designed yesterday, they can be beautiful. They're beautiful in their own merit, but they don't. They don't interest me in the same way that rooms that have legitimately evolved over time do. I think that goes back to, you know, when I was younger and I was a sort of volunteer at the National Trust. And I. That's really where I. Where I take a lot of my inspiration from are those. I think about those great rooms in these great houses and how they were put together and how they became a melting pot for you know, one generation's ideas or, you know, interests or, you know, nuances, there's something about them that just feels legitimate. Whereas sometimes beauty and rooms can feel slightly constructed.
- [23:53]
Cameron
So let's talk a little bit about your personal collection and the things that you love to collect or the things that interest you, whether in your home or your studio or your mind. You know, what object or even material speaks most to your creative soul right now?
- [24:10]
Steven Rodell
So, first of all, I've learned to not sort of discriminate, if you like. I mean, I sort of. I think for a while I was sort of so tuned into an idea of what I should be looking at. And, well, I had sort of fixed ideas and things. And I think that anything that I love, like anything that I talked earlier about this feeling of instinct. I know when I want something, I know when I love something because I just know it. It just sits so well with me. So the moment I feel. When the moment I feel that towards an object, a piece of furniture, whatever it might be, I try. I really, really try to obtain it. And actually, Philippe, my partner, and I have a. Have a sort of deal whereby he says that before I, you know, we got together, I would sort of just buy anything that kind of interested me. But now we really have a deal whereby we only buy if we are. We have a universal agreement on it, and we are very in tandem. So that makes it quite easy. But, I mean, what do I love? What do we love? I mean, I love portraiture. So, you know, when I look at portraiture and we have a few pieces that really interests me. I look at it, I look at the sitter, I think about the story, I think about the narrative, I think about why, why, why that person, you know, I have this wonderful painting of a sort of. I guess he's about 1920s by what he's wearing. And I. I look at that painting all the time. I mean, first of all, it's the painting that I absolutely wanted. I mean, I saw it at this small dealer that we. We buy from, and I saw it on a sort of Sunday morning, and it was just too far out of my price range at the time. And. And it just. I kept on thinking about him constantly for that week. And I said, if we go to Cecile on Sunday and he's still there, I don't know how I'm going to pay for it, but I'm going to buy that painting. And so we went and. And the painting was gone.
- [26:11]
Cameron
Oh, no.
- [26:13]
Steven Rodell
And I really. I use that as the lesson to Sort of try and not let things go. Six months later, at Christmas, Philippe gave me the painting for Christmas, which was extraordinary.
- [26:24]
Cameron
Unbelievable.
- [26:26]
Steven Rodell
But I think I've sort of digressed from your original question, which was what do I love to collect these sort of portraiture drawings? I mean, I love lighting. I mean, I never really use sort of modern contemporary lighting and anything. I will always try to source vintage or antique pieces.
- [26:46]
Cameron
Yeah, finding good vintage lighting is really difficult. But when you find the right pieces, they are night and day better than anything modern.
- [26:54]
Steven Rodell
Absolutely. They just, they, they just stand out and they, they just make a room. I mean, I've got beautiful lights that I've, you know, sort of tirelessly, tirelessly sort of tried to find. I've got more than I need. But I, I love lighting. I mean, I think it's, it's so, so important. I love to collect seascapes. A particular interest in anything seascape and I, I don't know really where that comes from. I think it's just this, this idea of narrative and transport, like transportation again, sort of transporting you to somewhere inside of a, inside of a painting, which I don't get, for example, when I look at sort of non. Figurative, sort of abstract pieces. So I guess what I'm always really interested in is the narrative in what something's trying to represent.
- [27:46]
Cameron
Certainly I've been super into portraiture lately too, and collecting pieces where I can. And I bought a piece the other day, I'm waiting for it to come in and it's about five feet tall and I don't know where it's going to go. I'm a little nervous for when it arrives, for what my wife's going to say, what, what, you know, what mirror do we have to take down to put this thing up? But I'm, I'm very excited and, and I think that there's, you know, with portraiture, not one piece is the same. And it could be the same person painted 10 times over. Right. Or the same subject painted 10 times over and it won't be the same. And I think that that's the best part about it. And I think the world has shifted from portraiture being this eerie, creepy thing to being really elegant and classy.
- [28:37]
Steven Rodell
Yeah, it's just beautiful. It's, you know, I mean, I, A friend of mine jokes that she's like, I, you know, at the weekend she said, oh, I saw your Instagram post the other day. Another sort of, you know, another portrait. You know, you've been to another Jacobean house and the Only thing you focused on is a portrait in there. It's the thing that I really, really enjoy the most.
- [28:58]
Cameron
Yeah. And I think the other interesting thing about portraiture is, you know, sometimes the background is really dark and even the subject is a little bit muted and it's got this very moody look. Sometimes it's a little bit more vibrant, but you can put all of them in a room and they all look good together.
- [29:16]
Steven Rodell
Agreed.
- [29:18]
Cameron
Yeah. I'd love to know. You know, in the uk, you get to see all these amazing manors and what a lot of people, for lack of a better term maybe in the US would call castles, right? But they're really these. These massive manors. And when you walk inside of them, or at least when you see photos of them, the furniture and the art, it's all very, I guess, period correct. And you don't often see someone taking a space like that and really layering it with a mix of different furniture. How do you feel about these massive manor homes? And should all the furniture in the art be period correct, or do you find that there's some beauty in kind of mixing it up?
- [30:00]
Steven Rodell
No, I think there's real beauty in mixing it up. I'm not a purist in that respect. I mean, I think period correct when it comes to architecture. So when Guy and I look at a project and foremost, he's an architect, we look at our. We look at any project that we're working on, and we always want to sort of get the architecture right from the beginning. And some projects, we. I mean, most projects we have that luxury of doing, some it's preset. You know, we're coming in too late, but it's about sort of building the bones. And once that's together, then the interiors sort of, in a way, all sort of fall in around it. But I think, you know, recently I was reading an article about, and I think it was in World of Interiors of Haddon hall, which is a beautiful sort of spectacular house in the north of England. And that's a really good example about how the current custodian has, you know, has this extraordinary collection of, you know, early furniture. And they've been putting in very contemporary pieces. And I think that, you know, if done sympathetically, if done correctly, it makes for a very, very interesting space. So, again, it goes back to what Guy was saying before about. Which is. Is a great sort of term about, you know, the every decade, there's the best of every decade. And when you really think about that, it's distilling down what that is. And it all sort of seems to work together.
- [31:38]
Cameron
Are there a lot of good restoration folks still left in the uk, you know, who can come in and really, you know, make sure that these. These historical homes are kept up to snuff, but while, you know, remaining all these original details and stuff? Because I feel like it's in the US a very dying practice.
- [31:57]
Steven Rodell
Yeah, no, I mean, here we're very lucky because we have a great stable of. Of craftsman, craftspeople, restorers, gilders. I don't ever feel sort of short of anybody to sort of go to. I mean, we're very, very lucky to have and to. To work with, with all the. With all these people. Yeah, I don't think there's a. Sort of a short supply.
- [32:24]
Cameron
Yeah, I. I love that because you don't. There's not nearly as many historical homes and properties in the US as there are probably. I think probably even just the Cotswolds has more than the whole US does. And, you know, to keep the integrity of those is gotta be crazy upkeep. But to know that there's people out there that are happy to do it and still want to learn the trick of the trade, if you will, to do that is special. I want to talk about, you know, we're in this digital world of everything, right? Everything is online, everything's on the Internet, and it's great for us. We can buy something within a minute and it shows up the next day. Or for your and I's purposes, it's much easier to scour auction catalogs online than it is from reading a pamphlet or a newspaper. But I still find that collecting, whether it's digital or not, is one of the last practices that insists on this patience and discernment and memory. And, you know, I'd love to know from you because you're constantly looking at this stuff, as am I. Where do you see collecting in the contemporary life? Kind of still holding power, you know, do you see the role of collecting remaining, this patience and discernment that you need as time evolves, Right? Because even if you have all the money in the world, right, Collecting the right piece, you really have to wait for it to come to market. It's not about just buying an expensive car from a dealership when you can get it the same day, right? If you have all the money in the world. But when you want to collect something truly rare or truly exceptional, you really have to wait for the right one to pop up. So no matter how digital the world is and how fast the Internet is you still have to have this really exquisite patience, the patience to it.
- [34:13]
Steven Rodell
I mean, I guess that's the double edged sword, isn't it? I mean it's like, you know, we talk about in interior design, you know how now everything's online so actually nothing, you know, everything is identifiable. But you look at something like Google Image search, I mean that's transformed things because often when I found, I mean yesterday I was looking at some beautiful sort of 1950s lights and the dealer had sold them. So I immediately said to my colleague, just put it into Google Image search and see what comes up. And of course you put it in and we found another pair of those lights somewhere else. Now I wouldn't have known where to go to find them, but we actually have that pair. I mean that's slightly different but I mean, you know, that's a great tool for us. So I think in a way, you know, if you have an appetite to find something, maybe you can find it much quicker. I mean I love the whole just meandering sort of, you know, process of it all. And sometimes, I mean I might have a list of what I'm looking for but you know, I'm not looking for a particular style of commode or a particular style of chair. I'm just looking for something that again, instinctively I think when I see it I'll know it's going to work in the room.
- [35:33]
Cameron
Each project that you touch kind of becomes this, this portrait, right? It's, it's of a portrait of a place or a moment, a sensibility. Do you ever think of your work as maybe collecting stories and moments more than physical things?
- [35:50]
Steven Rodell
Yeah, I think that's interesting. I always love, whenever I'm away on holiday somewhere, I love to bring something back. So for example, I was in Paris a couple of weeks at the beginning of the year and I, I was in this beautiful little shop and they had this exquisite little toll, 1930s lamp. And actually the act of a. It was beautiful but the act of buying it when I was there on that day and knowing that when it goes into my kitchen I'm going to enjoy it and remember that time. It's like the association with buying something I'll really, really enjoy. Like I remember that day in Paris.
- [36:33]
Cameron
I love that. Yeah. I often try and collect with, with that intention too, right. Trying to make, make a moment out of it. As great as the object is, right. Once you bring it home and you get to live with it, that that's, that's the day to day beauty of that, but it's. It's remembering where you found it, if you negotiated.
- [36:50]
Steven Rodell
Yeah. How hard you haggled.
- [36:53]
Cameron
Yeah, exactly.
- [36:55]
Steven Rodell
But I guess you're the only keeper of those memories, so in a way, it doesn't really. So for other people, they don't really. I guess they don't enjoy that narrative in the same way unless you tell the story.
- [37:08]
Cameron
Yeah. I love when someone comes to the house and they're like, what is this? And I'm like, okay, let me tell you why this is great, you know?
- [37:16]
Steven Rodell
Yeah.
- [37:17]
Cameron
All right. I'd love to know before we wrap it up with the collector's dream rundown. You know, if you could design a room around a single object from your own life, from your own collection, whether it's a portrait, a lamp, a chair, a piece of fabric, whatever it may be, what would that item be? And what do you think the space would say about you?
- [37:39]
Steven Rodell
I mean, interestingly, you know, I've. As I mentioned earlier, I've just sort of renovated part of our flat that we've been living in for about four years, which I always sort of say, is this sort of one of the smallest flats in southeast London. And people come and they say. I mean, a friend of mine turned out last year with a broken leg. And he, after about three days, said, for God's sake, Stephen. Every. Every. Everywhere I look, I feel like I'm going to sort of knock something off the wall or crash past something. What have I done? I mean, all the pieces that we've included back in the flat, I love. Like, I. You know, I've been. I've really sort of edited it down. So if I think about things. I mentioned the Potter earlier, the portrait, you know, I just put him in a much more sort of important position. You know, I wanted to sit there at my dining table and enjoy him. When I sit on the little banquette, he's on a sort of corner, in a corner with a beautiful picture light above it. And it kind of gives him real presence. And then, you know, weirdly, to the. To the left of the bonquette is this beautiful portrait of a French bulldog called Shaver, which is by the Victorian artist called Herbert Dixie. And he is the absolute spitting image of my dog. And I bought him. He was Herbert Dixie's dog in, I think, like, you know, 1896 or something. And I bought him because of the similarity. But again, I have. I have sort of built the room around those. Around those two sort of portraits. You know, if I go through into our sitting room, there's an amazing sort of four watercolors by the British sort of contemporary artist Lucinda Oakes. He does these sort of Chinese junk boats, which I'm slightly sort of obsessed by. I've sort of had many drawings and paintings of junk boats. I think it's just this sort of curiosity of. Of Asia. And again, I've sort of. I really have built the room around. Around that. Those four pictures, and they're big, so they. They sit rather impressively on this wall. And you. The colors are quite vibrant, but I sort of. The walls. I think it's called a Mortlake brown, so it's quite cocooning. Yeah. Does that sort of answer your question? I'm not sure. That's a very.
- [39:59]
Cameron
Yeah. No, I think you answered that the way I was hoping you would, and that's. That it's nearly impossible to pick a favorite item. And I think that that's what. What this whole conversation is really about. It's about editing your space down to the things that really matter or editing a client's space down to the things that really matter. It's not about filling a room, right. The room would be better with one chair and. And nothing else if the chair was the only thing that mattered. And. And there's a story behind that. And it's. And it's how you frame it, right?
- [40:33]
Steven Rodell
And.
- [40:33]
Cameron
And it's.
- [40:34]
Steven Rodell
And it's reason for these things.
- [40:36]
Cameron
Right.
- [40:37]
Steven Rodell
You know, if everything sort of. If. If just items. When you talk about layering and you talk about. Which is such a sort of. It's such a overused word, I guess, but you talk about sort of layering in interiors. You know, you want everything to matter. You want everything to be comfortable. You want everything to be sort of legitimate. Things that are just there to sort of fill space. Noise and fill space, lack integrity. And that's kind of the worst thing, you know, just having things for the sake of having things. It's kind of quite wasteful. And that's sort of how I feel about those sorts of spaces. You know, you want. You want the very best pieces that, you know, you have a connection with. You have an interest in. You genuinely look at them and want to love them. Anything that I don't love any longer, like, you know, things that I've collected in the past, I. I sort of have a, you know, a drawer of things. Like recently, I've. I became obsessed by buying, you know, Portuguese antique linen because, you know, we spend a lot of time in Portugal and we'd go to flea markets and buy all these beautiful things. And I sort of feel that that was great for a short period in. In my life. And now I'm sort of trying to give it all away to the people that I know will really, really enjoy it or. The other day I. I had this. This painting which was by a sort of 1950s Swedish artist. And I just looked at it. I just. It didn't bring me any joy. So I re gifted it, you know, for somebody's birthday, because I knew they enjoyed it. I mean, that's the really interesting also thing about collecting is that, you know, you buy things that for a moment in time, they matter to you. And then sometimes on every evaluation, they don't. And actually you can then give those as wonderful gifts.
- [42:29]
Cameron
I love that. Yeah, I think gifting is such a great thing when it comes to collecting. And I've done so much gifting over these last few years, whether it's to other collectors like yourself or to friends. And I try and always get something in vintage, not because they necessarily like vintage over modern, but because I think there's sometimes more meaning than just going to the store and purchasing one out of, you know, 500 SKUs that they.
- [42:54]
Steven Rodell
Have, you know, agree with you. I mean, very recently, it was a friend's very special birthday, and I was desperate to get to this little sort of antiques emporium. And all week to find, you know, a set of sort of crystal glasses. I thought that would just be perfect. And it really. I couldn't get there for various reasons. And the party, I had to go to the party. And so I sort of had to run up, you know, to the King's Road and go and find something in a shop. And it left, like, a slightly bitter taste in my mouth. Interestingly, when he got there that evening, I looked over and on the drinks trolley, he had the decanter that I had bought from this shop. And I thought, well, on the one hand, that's really good, because it meant that I actually. He really liked it. He had obviously had it for a long time and I had, you know, understood him. But selfishly, it gave me the option to take back the decanter to the shop, get a refund, and sort of try and find him something that I felt would be much more special. I wanted to find something with. With age. I wanted it to just have somebody else's story, like somebody else's patina.
- [44:00]
Cameron
I love that. Steven, let's wrap it up with the collector's gene rundown. You can answer these questions based on any of the things that you collect, you can base it on the philosophy of collecting. You could base it on something that you collected for a client, whatever it may be. You can answer them however you like and have fun with it. So the first one is, what's the one that got away?
- [44:20]
Steven Rodell
A sort of funny story. So I for about it only just got away after about 12 years. So I would go to this wonderful antique shop in London primarily for lighting a complete sort of Aladdin's cave. And in the back of the shop, about 12 years ago, I noticed this top for a table. It was sort of vellum, a beautiful sort of tobacco vellum sort of color. And it had this amazing Greek key sort of detail on it. I'm not quite sure how they would have. Would have done that but. And I, every time I'd go to the shop I'd look at it and I think, God, that would make an amazing table to. That would just be really beautiful or I don't have a project. Well, I would really like it personally. Well, I can't afford it. Well, I won't ask him what the price is. You know, it sort of went on and on and on. And just about the time when I was seriously thinking, well, he does have that tabletop. It has been 12 years. I wonder if we could do a deal. You know, it's sort of been been there collecting dust. I then went to the Battersea Antiques Fair and he had repurposed it on the most amazing base and there was this top and I said, christopher, what I mean, but it just looks extraordinary. And he said, yeah, it's just sold.
- [45:35]
Cameron
Oh no.
- [45:37]
Steven Rodell
And what was interesting about that was that he had completely reimagined it and he had completely reimagined it in the way that, you know, just as I was sort of thinking about something, something was stirring. He had reimagined it and he had reimagined it in a way that really appealed to me. But I mean it really was too late. But you know, I mean I had 12 years to think on it, so I probably just should have done it sooner.
- [46:03]
Cameron
That's how it goes.
- [46:04]
Steven Rodell
That's how it goes.
- [46:05]
Cameron
How about the on deck circle? So what's next for you in collecting or maybe something that you're currently hunting after, Whether it's for yourself or for a client?
- [46:13]
Steven Rodell
Well, there's, I guess there's sort of two things. I think that I have been desperate to find some very small sort of coupes of sorts for martinis that I can put in the freezer so, you know, you could just have them in the freezer, you know, constantly. And they're almost impossible to find of a particular style that I like. So I think that's a really sort of know, trivial something. I think that something that's really piquing my interest recently is definitely about. And it may be it. It hearts back to sort of the beginnings of being in my aunt's sort of jewelry shop. I've never really looked at jewelry to be something that has truly interested me, but it's sort of, again, it's, it's, it's piquing my curiosity. I think it's probably because I was given for my birthday a beautiful tank, Cartier tank. And I sort of now look at that with absolute, you know, just an absolute awe. And, you know, I have another very beautiful watch. And actually in a couple of months we, my partner and I are getting married and so we've commissioned rings. And I've never looked at jewelry in the same way. And going through this commissioning process of the band and what I wanted that to look like has really sort of stirred a real curiosity in jewelry. So it's probably quite a, kind of a dangerous thing to want to get into on top of others. But I think that that's something that, you know, to your point, you know, what's next for collecting? I think, I think it might be something that really, really interests me. You know, I've always sort of admired it, but I. Not being a person that wears anything but a watch and beautiful cufflinks, but I think I, I think I have an interest in that now.
- [48:15]
Cameron
I love it. Well, first off, congratulations to you both in advance on the nuptials. That's amazing. And you know, the, the vintage jewelry thing I completely understand because one, I actually think vintage jewelry is really having a moment with, with our generation. You know, it's always been a thing of, of, you know, our, our parents and grandparents and aunts and uncles and that sort of thing. But I think with our generation, with the younger generation, it's really having this resurgence. And I think part of that is vintage Cartier and Cartier in general. Whether you buy modern or vintage Cartier, a watch and is what I'm really referencing. You start to go down this rabbit hole of all the different shapes that they did and then you learn about Cartier London and you learn about the three different branches and you're like, wait, and they did jewelry? And you mean like the love bracelet isn't just like a 2005 production thing? This Was like, done way back in the day. You know, you start to learn about all these amazing bracelets and pendants and necklaces that they did, and it opens up a whole world to. To collecting, for sure.
- [49:25]
Steven Rodell
Yeah. I mean, I love the fact that when I look at my watch, I, you know, I think about, you know, Cary Grant and Truman Capote and Andy Warhol, and I look at these great images and, you know, I just think that's something so interesting about that.
- [49:40]
Cameron
I mean, Mick Jagger wore a small Cartier Panthere.
- [49:44]
Steven Rodell
Yeah.
- [49:44]
Cameron
You know, it's. It's never wrong. That's the best part about Cartier.
- [49:48]
Steven Rodell
Absolutely. Well, you'll enjoy the exhibition if you come to London, where you have to get here sooner than perhaps planned. But that's really quite extraordinary to go to DNA a real treat.
- [50:00]
Cameron
All right, let's talk about the unobtainable. So this is one that's too expensive in a museum. Private collection, just complete unobtainium.
- [50:06]
Steven Rodell
Somebody asked me a very similar question recently. And the painting that I always think about is the Bashy Bazook by Jean Leon Jerome. And it's in the Met collection. And it's that sort of very beautiful portrait, sort of Orientalist in themes, with, you know, textiles. And, you know, it's sort of. It really captures everything that I love. You know, textiles, color, pattern, portraiture. I mean, you know, I said, like, if the Met was having a sort of, you know, yard sale, that would. Would be. That would be what I would want.
- [50:46]
Cameron
Who'd you say that painting was by?
- [50:48]
Steven Rodell
It's by Jean Leon Jerome. I'll send you the link. It's a very, very beautiful painting.
- [50:55]
Cameron
Yeah, I'd love to see that. Next question is the Page one rewrite. So if you could collect anything else besides portraiture and, you know, objet or jewelry, watches, whatever it may be, and money was no object, what would it be?
- [51:12]
Steven Rodell
I think that if it was something that I had never. So you're saying that it's something that.
- [51:20]
Cameron
I've never collected before?
- [51:22]
Steven Rodell
I think it would be really early, sort of bas relief work. I think there's something so interesting about that. And so sculptural and so contemporary. And when you think about narrative and history and meaning, I think that would. That. That would really. That would be a very curious thing. Thing to collect.
- [51:45]
Cameron
I love that. How about the goat? So who do you look up to in the collecting world or who do you think is a great collector?
- [51:52]
Steven Rodell
One thing that I love to collect are auction catalogs and old sort of back catalogs of, you know, ad World of Interiors. I mean, I think I've got World of interiors back to 85 and wow. You know, I got the ad, you know, back to sort of, I think the early 70s, pretty sequentially. But thinking about the auction catalogues, the one that I often go back to is Bill Blass and that amazing sale that they had at Christie's some years ago. I just think as a collector, as a designer, but as a collector, he sort of mastered this sort of refined eclecticism. You know, it was beautifully masculine. It was classical, you know, blending, you know, classical, European, American contemporary. I take great sort of inspiration from that particular catalog. And him as a, him as a. As a collector, I love it.
- [52:52]
Cameron
The Hunt or the ownership? Which one do you enjoy more?
- [52:56]
Steven Rodell
I mean, I love the Hunt, but then I love to own it, but I mean, you know, but I guess you could. I guess the Hunt because I can't, you know, I. I can't always own it. And, and it is, it is a. It is a hobby, it's a game, it's a pastime, and it's something that, you know, you just, you get a huge amount of enjoyment. I mean, nothing better than, than a Saturday in the country going into some. And frankly, they can be. They don't have to be the best antique shops. They can just be sort of, you know, free junk market shops. There's. There's something to sort of, you know, be curious about. And so I guess the whole idea of, of the Hunt is, is probably triumphs.
- [53:42]
Cameron
And most importantly, do you feel that you were born with the collector's gene?
- [53:46]
Steven Rodell
I think yes, but I think it was definitely nurtured through, you know, experience, exposure, instinct. So, yeah, yes, I've been in some, you know, in answer, of course, but I do think that it's something that is, as I say, something. Well, I should have just said yes, Cameron. I mean, yes, but I think what I was trying to do is I was just trying to explain to you that I think that you start with something and you have this natural instinct for something, but, you know, it can be, of course, it's just nurtured through, through the experience and exposure.
- [54:26]
Cameron
Amazing. There you have it. Stephen Rodell, creative director at Guy Goodfellow. Thank you so much for coming on Collector's Dream Radio today. Such a pleasure to chat with you and pick your brain on all this stuff. And, you know, it's. It's definitely needed for a part two at some point because I have so many questions about this stuff and I'm so interested in the heritage and the history of just the work that you guys do, and I greatly appreciate your time.
- [54:49]
Steven Rodell
Well, thank you very much, Cameron. It's been really, really enjoyable.
- [54:55]
Cameron
All right, that does it for this episode. Thank you all for listening to Collector's Gene Radio.