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College Bound Mentor
College Waitlist Tips
00:23:45
Waitlists are one of the most unpredictable parts of the college application process - and an area we get questions on all the time. This is especially relevant now, as it’s been such a tough year for college waitlists. In this episode, you’ll...
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- [00:04]
A
It was bananas this year in terms of the number of kids that were first postponed and then waitlisted. Hey CBMers, welcome back to College Bound Mentor, where we help you survive the college application process and beyond were your.
- [00:26]
B
Co hosts Lisa, Abby and Stephanie.
- [00:29]
A
And on today's episode, we're going to talk through the waitlist. You know, what is it? Why do colleges use it? Why do students get on it in the first place? And perhaps what you can do to help move yourself off the waitlist. We're also going to talk about what happened this year, why it was such a tough year for many students, especially those reaching out for the highly selective colleges and the large public universities. As we get started, why don't we just talk about what are some myths and truths that you guys have heard or clients have reached out to to you about in terms of the wait list? I mean, one that I always hear is that if you hound admissions and you continue to send them letters of continued interest and updates and additional letters of recommendation, letters from professors, et cetera, that that will move the dial. What do you guys think about that?
- [01:16]
B
I think it's a very good question and I think like a lot of the conversation we're going to have today, it's case by case basis. So what I will say is some colleges are very prescriptive in what they want students to do about remaining on a wait list or being on a wait list. And some schools specifically ask not to receive letters of continuing interest. And my gut is to follow that advice. I had one young woman this year at a large public university who did not and she actually got an email back from admissions asking her to follow the instructions that they provided. And it wasn't the nicest email, by the way. But generally speaking, what you're trying to do is express to the schools, whether it's through their process or through a letter of continuing interest, that you want to come off the wait list. And if you are offered a spot, you would accept it immediately. That's what they want to hear.
- [02:11]
A
Obviously, if they asking for a letter of continued interest, then that's what you want to do. But what about, like you said, if you're just like hounding them, if you keep after them, if you send them cookies, because we hear all sorts of, you know, things that people want to do. If you go and visit during admitted students day, even if you weren't accepted and you talk to admissions like, have you ever seen that make a difference?
- [02:33]
B
Not for me, but I think it, there might be exceptions though. Steph do you.
- [02:38]
C
So anecdotally, I've heard of, like, creative stories where students have done creative. These are more. I said smaller schools versus, I think, some of the larger public universities, like you said, Abby, who are pretty clear about directions. But I have heard stories, stories where students have been really creative or thoughtful or have showed up at admissions and just like, I am here, and it seemed really genuine. And I think at smaller schools, admissions offices are pretty good at this point of, you know, discerning between genuine interest versus someone who, I don't know, just wants to get into the best school possible. So I don't know. I'm. I'm not totally discouraged. If a student came and was like, is there anything I can do? I'd say go for it. But in a thoughtful way. Put yourself in their shoes. Think about. They're getting hounded all the time. What would they want to see?
- [03:34]
A
Yeah, I would say, as a rule, it's probably more of a myth than it is a truth. I would say, on the whole, like, of the chances that it would work, it's more of a myth. I mean, I've had it happen once where a student showed up at James Madison University. This was when I first started, and she. And then she did get in. But typically, I would say, as a whole, it's probably more of a admit. And the other thing that you brought up a good point there, Steph, because I think that one of the questions you really want to ask yourself is, why do I want to get in off the wait list? Do I want to get enough. The wait list? Because I want to have more choices, because I think I should get into that particular school because I think it's more prestigious or it's in my mind, a better school than where I've already been accepted. Or is it the school that I really, in my heart of hearts, feel like I want to go to school there? Because sometimes you might. This year, our kids were wait listed, and not this year alone, but at multiple highly selective schools or Ivies. And so when that's the case, sometimes I get the feeling that it's just that you want to get into that school, but you haven't really taken a step back to determine if that actually is the right place for you to be. So that's one thing I would. I don't know. What, what do you guys think about that? Have you seen that at all?
- [04:54]
C
Yeah, that's a. That's a good point. I see students, and it makes sense. And it might not even be coming from Them, it can be coming from their peers or their parents or et cetera. And they see what schools they've gotten wait listed at versus the schools they've gotten in, and maybe they're stuck on rankings or. Or something. And they think that's the best fit for them because they're strong stud, have all of these gifts and this is where they, you know, deserve to go. But in reality, it might not be the best fit for them at all. So, yeah, I think it's easy to get hung up on the wrong thing sometimes.
- [05:30]
A
Yeah, I think that's really true. Another myth or truth is, do you think changing your major can help in terms of getting in off the wait list?
- [05:40]
B
I think the answer to this one is similar. I can think of a couple of times when kids have been given the opportunity to do that and been admitted, but that is really the exception. So if you want myth versus truth, I think generally speaking that's going to be a myth. But it's also a good idea to. I think one of you had a story about the portal, a college admissions portal. And one of the kids, one of.
- [06:09]
A
My clients this year was looking at Penn State. And Penn State always says they admit by school. They don't admit by major. But I think that they do actually admit by major within the school, even though they do admit to a particular campus. And so this young woman was interested in marketing business, and she applied for that as a major. And so she got put into one of their alternate campuses, which is what they typically do. And she saw on the portal that it said that there might be some opportunity for movement if you didn't were not applying to Smeal. And so because she was interested in marketing and advertising, she wrote an appeal to Penn State and said, hey, I'm actually since I applied, I've been doing a lot of internships. I've been doing a lot of things through deca, and I've gotten very interested in really the marketing communication side of things. And I would be interested in doing the marketing, I'm sorry, the advertising public relations major within the school of Communications. And is that a possibility for me to start at the main campus rather than starting at one of the satellite campuses? And it worked because she did have. She had a strong background and she had a little bit of a blip in her junior year. But her senior year and freshman and sophomore year grades were good and she had strong test scores. So that was an instance where it worked. But the college said that that was a possibility. Whereas a school like a Michigan, that's probably not going to happen at this point. The stage for you to change your major. And then speaking of Michigan, like, it was bananas this year in terms of the number of kids that were first postponed and then waitlisted. So let's walk through some of the numbers. Steph, do you want to just tell us like, what happened this year, like, compared to last year, how many first year students applied this year?
- [07:51]
C
So they received applications for over 109,000 students and last year it was around 98,000. So that's a huge difference even for a school like Michigan.
- [08:04]
A
Right. It's more like a 10% more than a 10% rise. Right. And then last year there were a thousand kids that got off of the wait list, but they gave a wait list to 19,000 students. So that was pretty small as well. We did actually have two students. I had two students. Abby, did you have any students? Did you guys have any students?
- [08:26]
C
Not last year.
- [08:28]
B
I don't know that I had anyone left on the wait list though.
- [08:30]
A
Yeah. Because usually what happens is so they have to tell them by April 15, and then May 1 is the matriculation day. So you're going to start to see movement when they. When colleges know what their enrollment is. And honestly, patience is. Is a truth in the wait list. Because I had a student that got in as late as June and I just kept telling him, you know, just keep, in this instance, it kind of contradicting what we said earlier, but keep hounding. Not hounding, but just gently reminding the regional person that you're still interested, especially as it gets later, because a lot of people drop off and then if there's some summer melt, there might be a possibility that that could happen. So that's just something to keep in mind. But I guess why don't we take a step back and Abby, why don't you just tell us just like about the waitlist, like, why do colleges use them? What is it for? How do they use it to manage their enrollment and just in general what students can do about it?
- [09:25]
B
I think it's fair to say that different schools use the wait list in different ways. Some schools use them strategically to manage the class size, and some schools really don't use their wait list very much and they try to get the right class size through the normal admissions process. So actually, if you look on. Have we ever talked about the common data set?
- [09:48]
A
I don't think we have. Tell us about that.
- [09:50]
D
No. Well, what is that?
- [09:53]
B
The common data set is a data set of information that Each of the colleges submits to the federal government every year. And it's got some really good data in it about admissions, about test scores, about demographics, stuff like that. And on there you can see how many people were waitlisted, how many students were or applicants were waitlisted, how many were agreed to stay on the wait list, and then how many were admitted. And in my experience, it really, really varies year to year. So I remember at Michigan, one year it was 450 kids got off the wait list, and then the next year it was three. One thing about wait lists is you just. I think it's fair to say, let me know if you guys would disagree, that you never know.
- [10:39]
A
That's totally true. That's totally true. A lot of times people will say, well, who do they. Where am I on the wait list? Know where is my spot? And how do you know? How do they know who to go first or whom to go to first?
- [10:52]
B
Yeah, I think that also is different at different schools. Some schools have what they call a ranked wait list. They actually have to indicate that on that common data set. Also, you can find any common data set by Googling it. Just if you Google Emory common data set, you'll see you can find it easily. I don't know. I've talked to admissions officers and everybody's got a different answer. Sometimes they'll say, well, if we lose a female tuba player, we want to replace a female tuba player. And sometimes it seems like the kids with the highest academic records get in off wait list. That's, that's who I personally have seen from my clients get in kids who were really very well qualified for the school and legacy. Actually, also, I was just going to.
- [11:36]
D
Say that, yeah, I've seen. And yes, the student has to be very qualified. But I, I feel like a lot of my students who have legacy, especially if their parents or siblings are at the school, do very well with the waitlist.
- [11:49]
A
So what do you recommend somebody does if they've been waitlisted, how can they move them up to the top of the list?
- [11:57]
D
Well, if they don't have certain qualifications or if they're not the tuba player that they're looking for, we always recommend our students to start with something called the letter of continued interest. And a letter of continued interest is a chance for the student to one, convey their passion for the school. But most importantly, it's to give an update of everything they have accomplished in and out of the classroom since applying. So we usually tell them to be short, sweet, concise, and also Tell why they're a great fit for the school, why they're going to make impact in that community, how they're going to make impact in their communities. And usually if a school that year is using the wait list. We've noticed students have success when they, when they write strong letters.
- [12:50]
A
I think that's really true. But what happens when a school says, hey, put everything in this form and don't write a letter? How much do you advise students to stick to that plan?
- [13:01]
B
I read the instructions really carefully. If the school says, please do not submit any additional emails or information except for through the portal, I mean, I don't think it's a great look to sort of break the rules.
- [13:20]
A
Although sometimes it works. That's the problem. Sometimes it works, especially if it's a regional, if it's a regional admissions director or someone that you've had some interaction with in the past and you could make that connection again. But it has to be a specific reason. It can't just be a reach out and say I really, really want your school or to send cookies or something like that. But if you can make a really compelling reason why you want to be at that school, then I think it's a good thing to do. I read once somewhere that the wait list is similar to finding a $20 bill in a jacket that you haven't worn for the season. And you pick it up and then all of a sudden you get find a $20 bill and you're like, wow. Because you can't expect to get in off the wait list. You have to really love where you're going to go next year or at least be happy to go there. And then if you do get in off the wait list, then it's a, it's this bonus, it's this extra surprise.
- [14:24]
D
I like that analogy a lot. I, I have a question for both of you. So have you ever. So to our listeners, a lot of times parents will come to us and they'll say, is this true that if you're not on your computer, if you don't answer your phone, or however the college decides to communicate about getting off the wait list, if you don't answer that immediately or within 24 hours, is that true that you will get a spot? Have you ever had a student that didn't act immediately and then it impacted their wait list decision or they were just too excited, so you never really experienced that?
- [14:59]
B
I've had a couple kids who asked for more time and it worked, but it was honestly really stressful. One at Vassar and one at Cornell and the one at Cornell. They called this poor young woman at 2:45, I will never forget, at 2:45pm in her calculus class. And they said, we need to know right now. And she'd actually talked to her parents about it. But regardless, even though she was prepared for the call, that's just so, you know, it's like an exploding offer for a job. It's just really stressful. So she said this was terrible. She said it was a Friday. And she said, can I call you right back? I just need to talk to my parents. Which is fair, right? Sure. No, they didn't say sure. They said, we'd rather have an answer now, but, okay, you have to call back by the end of the day. But when she tried calling back, she couldn't get anyone on the phone.
- [15:56]
D
Oh, no message.
- [15:57]
B
And then she had to go the whole weekend not knowing if she'd lost her spot. And they literally said to her, if you, you know, we will give your spot to someone else if we don't hear from you. So I think, again, case by case, right. Had other waitlisted kid kids. I had a kid wait listed at Chicago, and the rep called her high school counselor and said, will she accept our offer? So that happens too, right?
- [16:24]
A
And they also want to know they're not actually giving you a spot. They're asking you, would you accept a spot off of our wait list? Because they want to know that you're going to come before they give you an actual offer. So it does get tricky. And it also gets tricky if it happens really late. Like, I had a student last year who didn't find out she was waitlisted at Georgetown, a school that she really wanted to go to. And she had. And she had matriculated another school, and she was very excited to go to that school. And then mid June, maybe even end of June, she got a call from the School of Foreign Service and was in. And she was freaking out because she had already put it aside. She had, you know, bought all of her stuff. We had even gotten her a little gift that had the name of the university of where she was going to go. And then she had to make a decision. And it was hard for her because she had wrapped her head around going somewhere else because it was so far down the line. And ultimately she ended up going to Georgetown. But it was just an interesting thing. So the wait list can happen at any time. Sometimes by the end of August, which is unusual. It's usually around May 1, May 15, through June, but depending on summer melt, depending on all different things that can happen, you just have to be open to it.
- [17:45]
B
You have to keep an open mind and think through all the scenarios. And just be open is the best thing you can do to prepare yourself.
- [17:53]
A
Right.
- [17:54]
D
Conversely to your story. Lisa before I joined on and I was just helping and doing essay work, I had someone who got off the waitlist in the beginning of August, and it was originally their first choice, it was Emory, and they ended up saying no because they got. So they. They ended up going to Michigan instead. But. Yeah, but they thought that Emory was the dream school. They applied there early, and then they got off the wait list at the very end, but then they decided to go to Michigan, so.
- [18:22]
A
Right. And I had that happen to someone else. He had got. He was all set to go to Wisconsin, and he got into Georgia. And Georgia arguably has a lower acceptance rate than Wisconsin. Not necessarily that it's a better school, for whatever that's worth. They're both very strong, very strong schools. And when he got in, he just felt like, oh, well, shouldn't I go to the school that has the lowest acceptance rate? And I said, well, where, where do you know? Where do you feel more comfortable? And he ultimately decided to stay with Wisconsin. And he asked me, well, why does it have a lower acceptance rate? And I said, football. He said, oh, okay, that makes sense. Football. It's got a better football team. So that was not a reason enough. Even though he was a mascot in his high school, it wasn't reason enough to pass up a school that he was really happy about. So the wait list can be a great thing, or it could be something that just gives you more time to really decide if that's where you want it to be or not. And so that's one thing to be at the wait in terms of how to manage the wait lists. Anything else you want to say about that?
- [19:19]
B
Yeah, one thing that people ask me a lot is when you get deferred from either early decision or early action, what are the chances that you are accepted in regular decision, or am I more likely to be waitlisted? And generally speaking, it's not the hugest data set of information, but I would say, yeah, usually my kids who are deferred are also waitlisted. Have you seen that, too?
- [19:46]
D
Yeah, the majority of my students, I think, who get deferred if they apply early and they get deferred. Yeah, if they apply early and they get deferred.
- [19:59]
B
Yeah, I've had one.
- [20:00]
D
They end up on the waitlist.
- [20:01]
A
I've had kids who have gotten in after being deferred, but I feel like if you get deferred and then you get wait listed, it's, it's likely you're not going to get in because they've had enough chances to determine whether or not they want you in the school.
- [20:15]
D
Yeah.
- [20:16]
B
Another question that I've been asked that I think I worked to solve twice was once you're deferred, which is similar to being waitlisted. You know, it's the early version. You know, what can you do to make yourself a stronger candidate? And I did this, this time with a kid who was deferred from early decision, super highly qualified candidate, and then was accepted, regular decision, actually. But we really went through his application and tried to figure out what could have possibly been the gaps. It was not his grades, it was not his, his classes. It was not his test scores. Perfect. Perfect ACT and perfect sat. It was not his abilities. He was, he had an internship, a research internship. He was, you know, really talented engineering student. So we figured out that he didn't really have many examples of collaboration and working with others. I mean, that was literally the only hole we could find. In December, we decided to try to remedy it. And I don't know, he was able to slip into something really easily, which was great just based on some other stuff he'd done. But I don't know, I wonder if that's something that's worth thinking about is why was I deferred, why was I waitlisted and, and trying to bring some new news to the school to make yourself a more compelling candidate. Not easy to do because you're also trying to do well in school and all that, but sure.
- [21:42]
D
So did he write a letter and convey that? The new collaboration and the letter.
- [21:48]
B
Yeah, we made his letter of continuing interest all about this amazing opportunity. He just got the collaboration because he really didn't have, you know, there were a lot of community essays and diversity, diverse experience essays and talking essays, especially for engineering kids this year, working across diverse groups to find, to solve problems. He really did not have that experience. Not of his own fault, but just, that's not, that was the nature of the things that he did. He basically got involved through his existing research internship in this sort of collaborative problem solving, engineering thing that existed. He just jumped right in and made a splash. And so we got a little bit lucky with that because it's, it's hard. It's hard to create opportunities for yourself.
- [22:31]
A
Yeah, that was really smart. So I guess bottom line is if you're deferred or you're wait listed, the key is to identify how you're going to contribute to that community and to make a much more compelling connection between your experiences, your interests and how you can show up on campus and make an impact. And I think that is the best thing you can do if you've been waitlisted and to be really specific about those interactions because that's going to be the thing that will set you apart so that they understand why you want to be at that school. Well, thank you so much CBMers for tuning in. This was the last episode of our first season. We're going to take the month of May off to regroup and we'll be back in June. But to catch more of our previous episodes of College Bound Mentor, make sure to follow or subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and tell a fellow parent or student about the podcast. To learn more, visit collegeboundmentor.com until next time you got this.