Host 1 (3:23)

Yeah, they're very cool, for sure.

Jyoti Jane (3:26)

Yeah.

Host 3 (3:26)

And so you said that this is a really great way to submit these portfolios for engineering students to differentiate themselves from other applicants applying to similar majors or similar programs. But do you feel that every student interested in engineering or applying to engineering programs should be submitting a portfolio even if it's not required by the admissions process of the selected colleges?

Jyoti Jane (3:54)

So, yeah, I would say the answer is it depends. So it depends on a couple of things, as you said, right. Some schools will not accept any additional information. Like I know for sure that the UCs will not, so that in that case the student's not going to benefit or it's not going to be even reviewed if they submit. So in that case, no. But many schools, they accept optional portfolios through like Slideroom or many students, when they submit their applications through the common app, for example, the school gives them through the portal a link for optional submission of any kind of digital media or files that they want to upload. In that case, I think if they have something that showcases their individual engineering journey that kind of brings out their growth in technical skills or any kind of problems or challenges that they had, that shows that they're thinking as to why they're doing this in that case, how they approach projects, for example, or what is their overall impact. I think that it would be helpful for the students to show something beyond, you know, the grades, the transcripts, or whatever else is they're submitting in the application.

Host 3 (5:23)

So that's super helpful. So if there's a place for an optional supplement or additional information, so then it's going to help their application, go for it, you highly recommend.

Jyoti Jane (5:34)

Yeah, that's correct.

Host 2 (5:36)

Listening to what you just said, the objective of the portfolio is to show how the student thinks or how they've grown as a problem solver, or maybe I imagine even like a theme of a topic that they're interested in. I feel like a lot of our clients can feel sort of overwhelmed at the idea of creating a portfolio. So can you give us a snapshot of what one should look like? Is there a checklist of any kind that our students should follow rules about how many projects? You know, can it just be one or should it be a certain number that shows A diverse set of skills. How do you think about creating that portfolio?

Jyoti Jane (6:17)

For me, the process is very organic because each student is very individual and, you know, what they bring to the table in terms of their interests and how they develop that over those four years, it's very different. So my focus is on highlighting their growth in terms of technical skills, for example, how they evolved over time. So they might start off with small projects and then go on into more complex projects. So that's highlighting those technical skills over time. The other thing is sometimes, you know, the students, you know, most students have robotics or like some kind of, you know, place where they're doing collaborative work with their teammates. So I think in engineering, even highlighting collaboration is a way of showing that, okay, this is what I did. But then, of course, the focus needs to be on the students. What have they done per se, what was their role in the team? And maybe a little bit of a reflection as to, okay, this is what the challenges we ran into as a team. And then this is what I did or a solution per se. So those kind of just highlighting those things. And of course, anything that speaks to intellectual curiosity. So whether it is research they've done or anything else that they have really delved deeper into looking at, the majority of that they're going to be applying to. Because fit to major has become an important aspect for engineering application. The admissions wants to know what has a student done inside and outside the classroom to explore their major.

Host 2 (8:16)

So that's critical for a given project that might be in a portfolio. What are the components for a given project? You know, a reflection you mentioned, I imagine some sort of technical explanation. What does that look like?

Jyoti Jane (8:34)

Yeah. So, you know, just take the admissions committee through the process, right? What, how, why the why behind the project? Why did you do it in the first place? There are so many projects that they could have chosen. So I would say look at two or three projects that speak to that. So I wouldn't include each and every project that the student has ever done. So maybe just pick like a few projects, but then take them through the, you know, the why, why did I do this? And then, you know, the process. So what was the initial. And then what was the final result? What were you trying to do? What was the impact? Did you run into any challenges? And then what were the skills that you picked up? So just framing it in terms of, you know, the growth that they experience or the skills that they picked up, you know, it's a good way to go about it.

Host 2 (9:27)

That makes a lot of Sense.

Host 3 (9:28)

Yeah.

Host 2 (9:28)

The focus on growth.

Host 1 (9:30)

Right. And. Well, it's interesting that you say that, because it got me thinking about a student that I have who spent all of last summer. He's on. He's like the head of his robotics team, and he spent the entire summer basically just making different modules for his. For his robot so that they had all of the programming done in advance. And he just kept iterating and iterating all of these different scenarios that might come up when they're doing their competition so that they could get much more efficient at doing it. And he was really doing it to help the whole team. So you're suggesting, or what I'm hearing, is that it might be a good idea to show all of the iterations that he did and what he came up against and then how he landed at the four or five different final programs that he came up with that would be helpful and how they ended up up helping his robotics team in the future. Is that something that you think would be successful?

Jyoti Jane (10:21)

Yeah. Yeah. And in addition to that, maybe emphasizing the soft skills that he developed along the way, like, you know, communication with his team or, you know, whatever else. Right. So those things are also important in, you know, just sometimes just speaking about the soft skills helps.

Host 1 (10:39)

Right. And how would that be different, though, than writing an essay about that? Like, you know, can you give an example of, like, a successful portfolio that worked and how that worked in conjunction or with essays? Because essays are also an opportunity to demonstrate those things.

Jyoti Jane (10:51)

Yes, yes. I had a student, actually who was applying for aerospace engineering, and he was part of a very under resourced robotics team. So he basically wore a lot of hats. So he was doing, you know, coding. He was helping out, you know, to do the, you know, build a robot, you know, to. To make the different parts, to also do the electrical piece behind it. So this student has had a lot to show. So the way that he approached, I had him talk about the few challenges that he ran into and the different things. He even did fundraising, for example. So along the way, he picked up a lot of skills. Not just the technical aspect, but also doing the fundraising, the marketing. He wore a lot of hats. So I did make sure that he talked about, you know, the different hats that he wore and how under resourced his team was and, you know, to put in, like, pictures and, you know, give, like, data in terms of what all he did for fundraising and how much he raised and how he, you know, he even built a website, so those kind of things. Just highlighting those things and then you know, because that shows that he's been going, you know, he's been really stepping out of his comfort zone and doing just a lot more. Not just the coding piece.

Host 1 (12:18)

So it's almost like the audio, it's almost like the visual component that goes along. It's almost to supplement what you're doing in the essay. Because all of those things are. We have our students write about all of those challenges and the growth during their essays. But so if we could just understand it carefully, then the portfolio is essentially like the documentation. It's like the pictures. If it's like a picture book to show exactly what happened along the way to complement the essays that you're doing. Right?

Jyoti Jane (12:42)

Yeah, yeah. He had like a two minute video on everything. It wasn't like very long, but he didn't mention the different things that he did.

Host 1 (12:52)

Got it.

Host 3 (12:54)

Yeah, that's really helpful. That example also from your blog, we loved your first tip, which is to tailor your portfolio to the audience. And you worded it. You recommended addressing both general and technical audiences. Ensures that your portfolio is compelling and informative to all reviewers. I think that's so important. So many times our students use acronyms or they use things that I don't even know what they're referring to. So I'm like, well, how will someone who's looking at your application understand that? So how does a student strike that balance between, you know, the general and technical audiences so they can speak everyone's language, that universal language?

Jyoti Jane (13:39)

Yeah, yeah, that's actually a great question. So with the admissions readers, right, they don't know. They wouldn't be able to understand the deeper technical aspects. So for them, you know, I think starting out with just like a summary, which is, you know, what I call it, jargon free, without any kind of, you know, technicalities involved. Just to explain your project, how you would to a layman who doesn't know anything per se about engineering. So that is something. And then, you know, maybe dive deeper into the technical details, whether it's the coding or the engineering principles or the math models or what have you. This would be more, you know, for in case, like, for in case of mit, like they have the advisory board which is, you know, has the technical expertise, the different engineering fields and is looking at the application. So for them, I think going deeper definitely helps. You know, like Caltech has their faculty and stuff doing it. It's important. Context is important, who's reading it and, you know, so tailoring it to have the elements of both. That balance is essential because you want to really cater to the admissions readers as well, just giving them the snapshot, not going into too much details. And then you want to really do the details where it's necessary in case you're having someone with technical expertise evaluating you.

Host 1 (15:07)

Very good.

Host 2 (15:09)

Going back just for a second to collaboration, I think that's a critical theme. Just all throughout the applications these days, you have brought up that that's an important component for engineers to show. Can you give us a couple of very specific examples of how you might communicate that kind of collaboration in what areas of the engineering process they're looking for? Collaboration?

Jyoti Jane (15:35)

Yeah. So when students are actually talking about collaboration, instead of saying, I worked on a team to build a robot, right. Maybe they can try saying that it was a three person team and I was responsible for whatever, designing the gear mechanism, writing the code, whatever it is they were responsible for. Be very specific and then go on to say one of the challenges I faced was we were not able to decide on the design ideas. And then I helped mediate that and proposed a hybrid solution that was acceptable to everyone on the team. Those details, I think are important because it shows what did the student do and then what kind of collaboration? How did he successfully manage to mediate and communicate what he's doing and bring value to his team?

Host 1 (16:31)

Two questions. First of all, not every student might have something to include in a portfolio. And honestly, not every school will allow, as we said earlier, will allow for a portfolio. So MIT has it very clear that there's a makerspace and that's almost something that I think is, I want to say the number is maybe 20% actually submit a portfolio, a makerspace portfolio and Caltech also. But Medi schools don't really, I don't want to say encourage it, but they don't really act like that's something that they want to see. So are you finding that more schools are actually looking at these portfolios? If somebody doesn't have something to submit, are they going to be at a disadvantage?

Jyoti Jane (17:10)

I wouldn't necessarily say that they're going to be at a disadvantage. I've had students in the past, you know, not submit portfolios and that's okay. So if you don't have anything to submit, don't. That's obvious. But the thing is this, that you definitely want to start somewhere. So if the student does not have anything, let's say it just depends on when they come to you. Right. If they come to you sophomore year, you can do more with them. So in that case, I would say Start somewhere. So, you know, I start by asking them, like, what problems do you want to solve in engineering? And I'll also share with them the Viterbi prompt about, you know, the 14 grand challenges. Engineering. Yeah. So they have it into like four different areas. Sustainability, health, security, joy of living, those kind of things. It helps to kind of brainstorm where they are at, what their passion is, how are they going to use engineering to solve problems. So that's like my basis. Like, I try to kind of do more with students who come in earlier and then you have more room to work with. But if they come to me like junior year or, you know, end of junior year, and they don't have anything per se, so then I would just look at their resume, you know, what are their extracurriculars right now? Do they have anything to showcase, you know, their engineering journey? Are they interested in anything? And then maybe I would look for interdisciplinary things that kind of, let's say the student's interested in music and has been doing a lot of work in that area. Maybe they can do something related to like a project, hobby project, or a research project that kind of combines music with engineering. So just kind of building on their extracurriculars and then taking their interests towards engineering and then showing something. But then it all depends. I mean, each student is different and what their capacity is different and what they want to do is different. So sometimes, yeah, it's not like a cut and dry process. It's more like, you know, just trying to see where the student is at and what do they want to do next. Right.

Host 1 (19:32)

I mean, it's very much like we just did a, an interview on passion projects and that's very much that same idea. I mean, I think it's really all about identifying like, you know, I think Liz Kreider's question was like, what breaks your heart? You know, so it's the same thing. I mean, we do that with our clients as well. Like, what are the problems that you want to solve, particularly as it relates to engineering. So I think that's an interesting, or, you know, it's a good way to approach it.

Jyoti Jane (19:58)

Yeah, Passion projects are. Yeah, I mean, it's. I love, I, I saw that list writers. I just love her. Yeah.

Host 3 (20:06)

Oh, that's awesome.

Jyoti Jane (20:07)

Yeah.

Host 3 (20:08)

Building on, on what we were just talking about, do you have any recommendations on where students interested in engineering, computer science etc can look for meaningful experiences outside of the class or just from your own experience, your own students, where, where have they had success exploring these passions and curiosities that transcend the classroom.

Jyoti Jane (20:33)

Yeah. So anything with engineering. Right. Hands on experiences matter a lot than just taking a class. Like, okay, I took a class in Intro to Engineering versus like I went and did something. Right. So those hands on projects, I think help a lot. The other thing I tell my students is that everybody is doing robotics, hackathons and what have you. So the thing is, look for problems like in your community and then look for how you can use your skills to kind of solve them. So for example, I had a student who, you know, at his school, one of his friends or something died of fentanyl overdose. And then, you know, so that was a problem. He really cared about it. So then he, you know, decided to do a website on the dangers of fentanyl and then he did like a GoFundMe campaign where he collected money to kind of, you know, sell that drug that counters fentanyl and, you know, or whatever, what have you. So those kind of things which are really, really personal to them. Yeah. That they can take up in their community. Like, I had another senior who, you know, came from a very competitive high school and, you know, it's very stressful. So he wanted to do something, you know, to make a change, to have his peers really relax and, you know, have that stress free space. So he created this meditation app or things like that. So, you know, helping their community at the same time, you know, identifying what are the problems within my community and what can I do? It doesn't have to be something big, but just kind of, you know, making that impact. You know, whether it's their school or whether it's their local community, broader community, what can they do to step up and, you know, have that deeper impact?

Host 2 (22:35)

Yeah, I love that. I was just, I had mentioned this on one of our other episodes, but I was at the ICA conference in Detroit and that was just something that all of the admissions reps emphasize that they're looking for. Kids who understand the needs that are in their communities. It was just a little bit of different language than I. I mean, that seems obvious, but it was just sort of. Everyone said that very specific thing in terms of what they want to see from applicants. Kids who understand the needs of people in their community and want to do something to try to help.

Jyoti Jane (23:11)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Host 2 (23:13)

Speaking of stress.

Host 1 (23:16)

We observed this year.

Host 2 (23:18)

That engineering seemed even more competitive than ever in terms of admissions. Was that your experience also? And do you think that the environment is changing? What do you think the state of the state of engineering is?

Host 1 (23:37)

State of the State.

Jyoti Jane (23:39)

I think you're right on. Yeah, definitely. I think each cycle is getting more and more competitive, and the UCs are just. This, this cycle, cycle for engineering has been just crazy. So. Yeah, definitely. I, I echo all your sentiments about. Yeah, the process becoming more competitive every single year. This cycle is getting. Yeah, it's, it's, it's kind of sad, but, yeah, it's happening.

Host 2 (24:06)

It seems like these skills are so needed. So what do you think accounts for the fact that it just keeps getting so much? Is it. I mean, I guess we know it's not really more students applying, right? Don't we know that it's not. That it's not exponentially more students applying each year. So what do you think accounts for the programs becoming so much more competitive year over year?

Jyoti Jane (24:30)

I don't know. I think it's an impacted major at most places. So that means that there are just more students applying than spots available. So that's like, one thing. But yeah, I think the whole. Yeah, a lot of students want to become engineers, and therefore, I think definitely there's like record applications and the spots are not getting any bigger. So I think it's creating that issue.

Host 2 (25:02)

Yeah, I think we need more spots.

Jyoti Jane (25:05)

Yeah.

Host 3 (25:06)

Yes.

Host 1 (25:06)

Well, we need more faculty to do it. But when, you know, when something like engineering or computer science, although computer science, the entry level job output isn't as plentiful in the last couple of years. But, you know, if you can get a job as a PhD in those fields out of industry, it's harder to get them to stay in industry in academia. So there's also that, that kind of makes it harder from a capacity standpoint. One of the things I just, we wanted to just kind of, I guess, clarify because we don't want people here thinking, oh, my God, now I have to do a portfolio on top of everything else that I'm doing. And I think that we're seeing a little bit of a push to, like, now you got to do a video and now you got to do, you know, this, and you've got to do a portfolio. So in terms of like, just to reduce the stress around this, first of all, how many colleges are expecting to see this? And then how polished do they expect them to be? And what can we do to help kids kind of see this as a fun thing to do rather than one more burden for them to do in the, in the hoops to getting into an engineering program?

Jyoti Jane (26:12)

Yeah, it doesn't have to be polished at all because what they're trying to see Is the process, you know, the why, As I was saying, why are you doing this? Take the committee through the process. How do you look at problem solving? What kind of, you know, solutions do you come up with? So just, you know, getting into the mindset of, okay, I need to show them the process and focusing on that. It could be a small project, it doesn't have to be anything big, but as long as it, you know, takes them through those steps and helps them understand you better and beyond your gpa, beyond your test scores. Right. Something that really gives them an insight into who you are and what has your journey been so far.

Host 1 (27:02)

It's almost like a case study in terms of what you've done. Sort of like, what was the problem? You know, what did you, how did you solve it? What were you thinking about? And, and then what was the outcome, you know, and how did you get there?

Jyoti Jane (27:13)

Yeah, yeah, I don't recommend, you know, hiring a video whatever person or whatever. Just, just take your phone and just shoot it like you would. And most teenagers are very skilled.

Host 1 (27:26)

This is true.

Jyoti Jane (27:26)

Yeah.

Host 1 (27:27)

That they ask us, I'm like, I don't know, you're going to be better than I am at doing this. So. So you could be much better. So why don't we end with some, like some truths and myths about engineering portfolios? So what, what would you say are some truths and what are some myths about them?

Jyoti Jane (27:42)

So. Yes. Do you want me start with the truths? Sure. Yeah. So I would say that, you know, as I was mentioning, even small projects can make you shine. Just focus. You don't have to do anything big like, you don't have to do like something really life changing or whatever. It could be a small thing, but just take them through the process about the why, what challenges and then what skills you gained. I think, you know, that's something that I would like to highlight. The other thing is definitely the portfolios are valuable for students because, you know, they can take you through, you know, take the admissions committee through the journey of, you know, what the journey has been so far and, you know, make you a standard applicant, just help you with that. So definitely, wherever, if you have something there to show, then show it. The other thing is, I would say make sure it shows growth, that reflection, you know, okay, this is the skills I've gained. These are the, you know, challenges. This is how I look at problem solving and then highlighting those soft skills.

Host 1 (28:54)

I would say, what about myths? Any myths about it?

Jyoti Jane (28:58)

I just said not every school takes a portfolio. Right. So, you know, if You. And especially if the school is not going to take it, like the ucs, as I was mentioning, then, you know, don't do it. Yeah, don't do it. Don't do it.

Host 1 (29:13)

Don't waste your time.

Jyoti Jane (29:14)

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, wherever the schools are, take it, you know, and wherever it's optional, it might be a good way to stand out.

Host 1 (29:23)

How will they know? Is there a list of schools that will accept a portfolio? I know on the Common app it will say who will take a slide room or who will take an arts portfolio, but it almost sounded like you were saying if they take an arts portfolio or arts supplement, that you can do this in lieu of that.

Jyoti Jane (29:39)

I think so. I think you can just send out the information. Some schools will say, no, we were. We are not going to look at it. So in that case, no. But if it's available and if they have that link and if you can send it in, then send it in. Doesn't hurt you.

Host 1 (29:56)

Right, but we don't have a master list. You don't have a master list of schools, unfortunately.

Jyoti Jane (30:01)

Yeah, I don't have, like, a master list.

Host 1 (30:04)

Come on, Jody. We need a master's list.

Jyoti Jane (30:07)

No, but I like. Yeah, not all my students, you know, do the portfolios, of course. So, yeah, you know, if they. And if they have one ready, like they're applying to MIT or Caltech, then, you know, I look at. Okay, can you submit it to other places as well?

Host 1 (30:23)

Right. Because those are the schools that I mostly have it for.

Jyoti Jane (30:26)

Is that.

Host 1 (30:27)

I mean, certainly for mit, but that's. But a lot of the other schools. Not obvious that they're going to even look at it, so.

Jyoti Jane (30:33)

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So not everyone has to do it for all the schools, but if it's. If the student is working, if, let's say they're applying to mit, they're going to be having that. So then.

Host 1 (30:44)

So then see who else will take it.

Jyoti Jane (30:46)

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Host 1 (30:48)

All right. Any other words of wisdom before we close?

Jyoti Jane (30:52)

The other myth is that you need expensive tools and materials or whatever to build. I would say just, you know, focus on creativity and documentation of, you know, what you're doing, the journey. And you can do it on a budget. You don't have to, like, spend, you know, gazillion dollars to kind of have a portfolio. Start small. Look at, you know, those really. The projects that matter to you, and definitely, you know, think about the why. Why did you do it? What were the challenges and what skills you learned as a result?

Host 1 (31:26)

All right. Well, that is such such great advice. So thank you so much. Thank you CBMers for tuning in. Thank you Jyoti for your invaluable tips on creating a stellar engineering portfolio. We will have a link to your blog that we love so much on our site for those of you who want to read that into more depth. To catch more episodes of College Bell Mentor, make sure to follow or subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and tell a fellow parent or student about podcast. To learn more, visit collegeboundmentor.com until next time you got this SA.