Podcast Summary: College Bound Mentor
Episode: Hacking College with Dr. Ned Scott Laff & Scott Carlson
Date: July 2, 2025
Guests: Dr. Ned Scott Laff & Scott Carlson
Hosts: Lisa Bleich, Abby Power, Stefanie Forman
Episode Overview
This episode explores how college students and their families can “hack” the college experience by reframing the role of a major, unlocking hidden intellectual interests, and actively synthesizing their education around personal curiosity and real-world impact. Dr. Ned Scott Laff and Scott Carlson, co-authors of Hacking College: Why the Major Doesn’t Matter and What Really Does, break down systemic issues in higher education and give actionable strategies for maximizing opportunities and agency on campus and beyond.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Origin Story—How Laff & Carlson Met
- [02:20] Scott recounts how Ned persistently reached out to collaborate, recognizing synergy between his reporting on college-to-career pathways and Ned’s integrative vision for undergraduate education and mentoring.
2. Field of Study vs. Major
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[03:26] Field of Study is not synonymous with Major.
- Ned: “A field of study is an integrative approach to looking at what we call in the book a wicked problem...that emerges from what we call students’ hidden intellectualism and vocational purpose.”
- The process connects general education, major, electives, and experiential learning, integrating all aspects of college around a core intellectual curiosity.
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[05:23] Students usually choose majors for perceived utility or pay and randomly fill remaining electives, missing integrated opportunities.
3. Illuminating Hidden Intellectualism & Student Case Studies
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[06:38] Ned shares the story of a pre-med oboe major who combined his interests to research oboe reeds, ultimately excelling in both music and science.
- Ned: “All of this is what study at a university is about...He just wasn’t a biology major.”
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[08:18] Scott recounts helping a philosophy student struggling to defend her major. Uncovering her true fascination—death and near-death experiences—he reveals whole academic and career fields she hadn’t known existed.
- Scott: “She’s looking...and she’s like, ‘Oh my God, it’s real. This is actually so cool.’” [11:14]
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[11:41] Scott offers a contrast: students defaulting to business or pre-vet for pragmatic reasons until challenged to articulate their genuine interests, which uncovers hidden career pathways.
4. Systemic Failures in Higher Education
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[13:46] Dr. Laff outlines three major failures:
- Lack of Agency: Students aren’t encouraged to become agents of their education; engagement is passive.
- Hidden Job Market: Most jobs/opportunities are never discussed in college career offices.
- Structural Inertia: Degree audits/generic gen-eds obscure possibilities. Students aren’t guided to connect electives/gen-eds to their “wicked problem.”
- Ned: “When students become agents...they still come out with a stamp on their transcript…but it doesn’t say what they actually did or dreamed about.” [16:53]
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[18:22] Career services are often transactional, not explorative—“no one ever asked him how his interests intersected with the job market or his passions.”
5. Cultural & Social Capital: Uneven Playing Field
- [19:08] Students with family support or cultural capital see more options and are more likely to “hack” the system; others risk dropping out or underemployment due to lack of guidance.
6. The Crucial Question & Helping Students Clarify Purpose
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[21:14] Ned’s method: Encourage students to answer the question, “If you could do whatever you genuinely care about with a guaranteed income, what would you pursue?”—then validate and expand their vision.
- “If you wanted to be the best half pipe snowboarder in Aspen, Colorado, that counts!”
- Creating safety and curiosity unlocks authentic answers.
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[23:12] Scott notes K-12’s focus on testing stunts exploratory thinking. Students must experience life—get off their devices, go out, and engage with the world.
7. Research Investigative Interview (RII) Process
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[25:06] Not just “informational interviews”—the RII helps students challenge their assumptions, uncover hidden market needs, and build authentic connections.
- Ned: “We’re not talking about following passion but following genuine interests—and talking to people who can actually help them get to where they want to go.”
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[26:52] When students doubt they’ll get responses, Ned reassures: “People love to talk about their own work—especially parents whose own kids won’t listen to them!”
8. Building Social Capital Through Authentic Questions
- [29:15] Six core questions help forge deeper connections in RIIs, e.g., “What keeps you up at night?” “How important is hands-on experience?”
- Must build rapport before these questions have impact.
9. Student Stories: Dua, Shay, & Sarah Dupre
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Dua (Computer Engineering; [30:29]):
- Faced generic career guidance until challenged to ask, “How would you make a cell phone call from the moon?”
- Uncovered NASA-linked research at the Adler Planetarium—her true “field” beyond the major.
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Shay (Spoken Word; [38:03]):
- No campus poetry classes, but with support and curiosity, she built connections with Young Chicago Authors, created projects at local art bars, and launched spoken word programs.
- Outcome: Promoted at Northwestern, having “hacked” her college journey from an under-resourced background.
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Sarah Dupre (French Major; [49:33]):
- Initially asked, “What can you do with a French major?”
- Discovered international business opportunities in South Carolina, interned at the French consulate, and unlocked a new sense of agency and possibility.
- Ned: “That opened up everything and the age, her sense of agency, her sense of belief. This is real. I can really do this stuff.”
10. Hidden Opportunities on Campus & Beyond
- [56:23] Ned:
- Students can access vast university resources—business offices, performing arts centers, research operations—by simply asking, connecting, and showing curiosity.
- “If you don’t like the rules to the game, let’s break the rules and make it work for you.”
11. Luck: You Can Manufacture It
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[59:54] Scott:
- “Luck should be manufactured…it’s the defining feature of a lot of successful stories.”
- It’s about building opportunity through preparation and engagement, not just hoping for chance encounters.
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[61:06] Ned:
- “Hacking College says you create your preparation and your opportunity. It just looks like luck from the outside.”
Memorable Quotes & Moments
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Scott Carlson [03:26]:
“It’s not about the major. There’s a better way students could do this, and there’s a different way of thinking about all this.” -
Dr. Ned Scott Laff [13:46]:
“I can find students in the same five classes, and when they have this movement of ‘this is what I want to do’—all of a sudden, they’re pulling what they need out of the classes. They become agents of their education. That’s failure number one.” -
Scott [11:23]:
On students' hidden interests: “At first they’re kind of bashful...because it might sound stupid...then she says, ‘Well, this is going to sound really weird, but I’m really into death.’” -
Ned [21:14]:
“As soon as you ask this question, and they feel secure enough to talk about what they want to do, and you can say, ‘That’s fantastic. It’s real. Somebody’s doing this. Let’s find out who.’” -
Scott [52:51]:
“What sticks out for me is how the humanities and arts have just been let down…no one’s having the conversation with students that allows them to open up those worlds.” -
Ned [61:06]:
“Classical education—Seneca said luck is found on the road where preparation meets opportunity. Hacking College says you create your preparation and you create your opportunity.” -
Scott [62:22]:
“Be curious. That’s the big part: try to cultivate curiosity within yourself. You’re going to a place that opens up tremendous opportunities.”
Actionable Advice & Takeaways
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Students:
- Don’t reduce your education to major/career checklists—connect your classes, experiences, and curiosities.
- Seek out and talk with field-of-study specialists, not just generic advisors.
- Use RIIs to challenge your perspectives, build authentic mentorship, and find your “hidden” domain.
- Manufacture your own “luck”—preparation plus curiosity leads to opportunity.
- Start early; don’t wait until junior year for real-world learning. Dive in from the start.
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Parents & Advisors:
- Resist the impulse to force “safe” majors; encourage genuine interests.
- Help students network beyond formal career offices; everyone on campus is a potential resource or mentor.
- Prompt students with creative, non-judgmental questions about what excites them (outside of salary and prestige).
Timestamps for Key Segments
- [03:26] Field of Study vs. Major explained
- [06:38] Case study: Oboe & pre-med student
- [08:18] Case study: Philosophy major and “studying death”
- [13:46] Systemic failures in college advising
- [19:08] Cultural capital and unequal student outcomes
- [25:06] Research Investigative Interviews (RII) explained
- [30:29] Case study: Dua, computer engineering & NASA
- [38:03] Case study: Shay and spoken word poetry
- [49:33] Case study: Sarah Dupre, French major & international business
- [61:06] The myth of “luck” and manufacturing opportunity
- [62:22] Final advice: Curiosity as the key to hacking college
Conclusion
The episode passionately advocates reframing the college experience as an opportunity for students to actively synthesize their interests, skills, and experiences—not just fulfill boxes toward a credential. Both Laff and Carlson push listeners to ask deeper questions, form authentic connections, and pursue curiosity relentlessly—skills all the more crucial in the age of AI and shifting job landscapes.
Recommended For:
Students at any stage of the college process, parents interested in supporting authentic growth, and educators/advisors ready to help students break out of the box.
Notable End Quote [Scott, 62:22]:
“Be curious. Try to cultivate that curiosity within yourself...You’re going to a place that opens up tremendous opportunities.”
For more resources, access the book Hacking College, or visit collegeboundmentor.com.