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Colorado Matters
April 8, 2026: Head of Colorado clerks on elections executive order; A picker's paradise on the Western Slope
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- [00:01]
Ryan Warner
From CPR News, this is Colorado Matters. A man who tried to overturn a free and fair election now positions himself as the safeguard. Today we get reaction to President Trump's vote by mail executive order from the head of the Colorado County Clerks Association. Then, some of Grand Junction's streets are lined with garbage these days, all on purpose. It's a thrifter's paradise.
- [00:30]
Nick Bardo
I am looking for planters. I am looking for lumber. I am looking for the occasional odd thing that strikes my eye.
- [00:38]
Ryan Warner
And an Oscar winning Colorado filmmaker profiles the singer of what's considered the first gay anthem.
- [00:44]
Carl Bean (singing)
I was born this way. Yeah.
- [00:48]
Ryan Warner
Carl Bean would become a minister and a foot soldier in the fight against aids.
- [00:53]
Daniel Younge
Carl inhabits a unique space where he's addressing black rights, queer rights and Christianity.
- [01:05]
Ryan Warner
This is Colorado Matters from CPR News and krcc. I'm Ryan Warner. The midterms are seven months away. That much we know. Less certain is what Election Day and the weeks running up to it will look like. That's because of a new executive order related to vote by mail. That that's a safe and popular system in Colorado. The president's latest actions mean we crave grounding once again from the head of the Colorado County Clerks Association. Matt Crane is the former Republican clerk of Arapaho County. And welcome back to the program.
- [01:39]
Matt Crane
Thank you. Good morning.
- [01:40]
Ryan Warner
So the EO in a nutshell says mail in ballots will only be cast by US Citizens to be determined by a list of derived from federal records. Do noncitizens vote in numbers that warrant this type of enforcement of what is already illegal?
- [01:58]
Matt Crane
There's certainly no data that shows that. As a matter of fact, as more and more states look into it, it's increasingly rare that we have noncitizens who are registered, let alone casting ballots.
- [02:08]
Ryan Warner
To some extent, they are. This is not a word dismotivated. What is the word I'm looking for? They are disincentivized from doing so because they risk drawing the attention of immigration authorities.
- [02:21]
Matt Crane
That is correct. And it's not uncommon if somebody who's a noncitizen does get registered to vote, it's not uncommon for an election office to hear from them and our attorney saying, no, we didn't mean to do this. We didn't realize what we were doing. Please take us off the list because as you say, they don't want to jeopardize their long term status here.
- [02:35]
Ryan Warner
Colorado's attorney general joined a multi state suit over this executive order. What would be some of the practical effects in Colorado if it's allowed to stand, Matt?
- [02:47]
Matt Crane
Well, I think it would make the process more burdensome. Some of the data that comes, especially around citizenship data out of the saved database has been notoriously unreliable. So there could be false matches through looking at that data and comparing it to the saved database. There's a requirement that the post office has to be much more involved in this process and validate the mail ballot list, which, you know, our friends at the post office do a great job at. Let's let them focus on what they are there to do and not get involved in the administration of elections. There's also a requirement here that says if you have to send your voter registration list to the post office 60 days before, there's a little bit of wiggle room there. But we have same day voter registration here in Colorado. So if somebody were to register, say two weeks before election Day, let alone election day itself, they might not be able to have a ballot mailed to them because of the requirements of this eo. So it makes little sense.
- [03:39]
Ryan Warner
Is there anything in it that you think is workable?
- [03:41]
Matt Crane
Well, ironically, we already do a lot of the things that are required in the eo. The Secretary of State's office compares our data to the federal SAVE database. We already compare our voter registration information to the Social Security Administration. We already go to USPS to approve our envelope artwork and we include the election mail indisha on envelopes already. We already do a lot of this stuff and quite frankly, we do it better, more efficiently than the federal government ever could. So once again, we'd appreciate it if they stayed in their lane and we'll keep doing a good job in ours.
- [04:15]
Ryan Warner
You used the word indicia. That's like the imprimatur on the affirmative envelope. Yeah. A little bit of a picture into what clerks must deal with.
- [04:23]
Matt Crane
Yes.
- [04:24]
Ryan Warner
Besides the obvious, would the County Clerks association attach some sort of amicus brief or something like that to this lawsuit? Are you backing it? Are you taking a position on it?
- [04:34]
Matt Crane
Well, we haven't been asked yet, but certainly I think the executive board would consider that if we were asked to do that.
- [04:39]
Ryan Warner
Okay. That is, the AG has not asked you yet.
- [04:41]
Matt Crane
Affirmative.
- [04:43]
Ryan Warner
Whether or not this order is successful. It does, as you've indicated, require energy to respond to and to plan for. That's a siphoning no matter. Do you think that's part of the point?
- [04:58]
Matt Crane
I absolutely think it's part of the point. I think a lot of this is performative politics. The problem is it has a lot of downstream effects where there are People who really support the president and they believe the lies about a stolen election. And so they think what he's doing is righteous and warranted, even though it goes well beyond his constitutional powers, the scope of his powers. And it does create a lot of attention for election officials who continue to stand up and tell the truth and say we do it better already than what this executive order could have ever conceived.
- [05:28]
Ryan Warner
To be clear, the Constitution largely gives the administration of elections to the states with some federal involvement.
- [05:36]
Matt Crane
Yes.
- [05:37]
Ryan Warner
You see this executive order as federal overreach.
- [05:40]
Matt Crane
To be clear, I see it as executive branch overreach. So the Constitution gives some power to regulate elections to Congress. It gives no power to the executive branch. And so had this gone through Congress, then we would look to engage on it in a different way, like with the Save America Act. But because this is coming from the executive branch, we expect those lawsuits to be successful.
- [06:03]
Ryan Warner
Is there inherent in this an assumption that Republicans would fare better under these rules than Democrats? And is that assumption worth challenging?
- [06:13]
Matt Crane
That's an assumption that we're making. And usually when you see people want to make large changes to election policy, they think they can't win. And so we're going to try to get game the system so we can. And you know, here in Colorado, we've had years where Republicans have done well. We've had years when Democrats have done well. When you look at Colorado, there are some Republicans who, whether honestly or they're just trying to grift for political and financial motives, will try to say, Colorado's really a red state and we just have to change our election model. And that's easily. We can push back on that easily with facts, like with most of this. But it still creates a hostile environment at times for election officials.
- [06:50]
Ryan Warner
President Trump himself has voted absentee because he says work meant he couldn't be in Florida. Is that convenience for working people? What makes mail in elections so widely popular?
- [07:02]
Matt Crane
Convenience is one part of it allowing more time. You know, our ballots here, Ryan, in Colorado can get very long. A lot of initiatives that tend to be on these ballots.
- [07:10]
Ryan Warner
Yeah. It feels like homework.
- [07:11]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
It does.
- [07:12]
Matt Crane
And so, you know, when you get your ballot beginning 22 days before the election, a lot of voters appreciate that because it takes a lot of time. I've heard from so many voters who say, you know, I'll take one or two initiatives a night because it takes so long to go through the blue book and try to figure this out. And so, you know, voters, over 92% of voters in 24, including the vast majority of Republicans cast their mail ballot voters. Colorado voters love our process.
- [07:36]
Ryan Warner
Part of the administration's concern regarding mail in ballots seems to lie in part with the question of what constitutes election day, you know, and when ballots are cast and received. What does the law say here in Colorado?
- [07:49]
Matt Crane
Sure, that's a great question. And this is going through the supreme. The Supreme Court just heard case about this. In Colorado, all ballots have to be back by 7pm on election night. They have to be in the hands of a clerk somewhere in Colorado. Now, let's say if I live in Arapaho and I'm in Mesa, I can take my ballot to the Mesa county clerk at 659. She will collect that ballot and send it back to Arapahoe County.
- [08:10]
Ryan Warner
Yeah, I see. In the hands of a clerk.
- [08:11]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
Yeah.
- [08:12]
Matt Crane
The only exception for that is our UACAVA voters, our military and overseas voters, where back when, I believe it's when Scott Gessler was secretary, we changed the law to allow them extra time up to eight days after election day to be able to get their ballots back. The thinking is these people are putting their lives on the line for us. We should do everything we can to make sure their voice is heard. Those ballots could be impacted by that case. But the vast majority of Coloradans, it
- [08:33]
Ryan Warner
won't have any impact under state law.
- [08:35]
Matt Crane
Correct?
- [08:35]
Ryan Warner
Okay.
- [08:36]
Matt Crane
Affirmative.
- [08:37]
Ryan Warner
Senator Mark Warner of Virginia has gone as far as to say that foreign interference is now no longer the greatest danger to our elections. Rather, Warner, no relation, says it's the current administration. Here he is Monday night on Rachel Maddow.
- [08:53]
Senator Mark Warner
A year ago, people would say to me, senator, do you think there's going to be free elections in 26 and 28? And I kind of blew it off a year later. I am terrified that this administration is going to try to create some incident that can allow federal intervention. But I am terrified because these policies are so unpopular that this crowd may try to do anything, including intervening in our election with federal for troops at the ballot or disinformation that could actually be catastrophic because if we get off the notion of a free and fair election, I don't know how we ever return to that.
- [09:35]
Ryan Warner
If he'd said that a decade ago, I don't think I would have aired it because it would have sounded like fear mongering. But we're in a different moment. Does that resonate with you at all as a clerk in terms of preparing for what's ahead?
- [09:46]
Matt Crane
It does. You know, certainly after January 6th, I will summarily dismiss nothing when it comes to things that have to do with elections or concerns and threats to our elections. I don't think that type of federal intervention is likely, but I will say we are preparing for it in case something like that should happen because again, we summarily dismiss nothing. And you mentioned something before about foreign intervention. I do think what we're seeing from domestic bad actors here is undermining our elections incredibly. But there's documented proof that our foreign adversaries will take this information and they will amplify it online and make sure that people it starts showing up in social media feeds to help it grow, to let that wildfire just continue to grow. You cannot underestimate how these people are useful idiots for our foreign adversaries. They don't have to fire a shot to divide us. They just have to light us up on social media. And unfortunately, many Americans are falling into that trap.
- [10:38]
Ryan Warner
So this notion of separating the foreign and the domestic is actually a false concept, a false structure. The idea is it might be generated domestically and then it is amplified internationally by foreign actors because it is useful.
- [10:55]
Matt Crane
Because it is useful. And they can turn us, they can turn Americans against each other without firing a single bullet.
- [11:01]
Ryan Warner
There's plenty of evidence that might have occurred. Matt, thank you so much for being with us.
- [11:05]
Matt Crane
You bet. It's a pleasure as always. Thank you.
- [11:06]
Ryan Warner
Crane leads the Colorado County Clerks Association. We'll be right back with a very one man's trash is another man's treasure sort of thing in Grand Junction. This is Colorado Matters from CPR News. In Grand Junction, the sparrows are singing, the sun is shining, and the streets are lined with mounds of garbage. It's the annual spring cleanup, when residents leave their unwanted clutter on the curb for the city to haul away for free. But as CPR's Dina Sieg reports, much of it never makes it to the landfill.
- [11:43]
Dina Sieg
Spring cleanup is one of Nick Bardo's favorite holidays. He's a big guy with a big smile and the patience to peruse piles that pop up like mushrooms all over town.
- [11:56]
Nick Bardo
I am looking for planters. I am looking for lumber. I am looking for the occasional odd thing that strikes my eye, like the
- [12:04]
Dina Sieg
pool table and the pressure washer Bardo snagged in past years.
- [12:08]
Nick Bardo
But yeah, I don't, you know, exactly know all the time until I see it.
- [12:13]
Dina Sieg
It's like thrifting.
- [12:14]
Nick Bardo
It's like free thrifting. Yes, exactly.
- [12:18]
Dina Sieg
We're not far from Colorado Mesa University, where Bardo teaches. We drive past little homes with massive mounds out front. Some are Tidy others, absolutely feral tangles of kids, bikes, tattered mattresses, sun baked coolers.
- [12:35]
Nick Bardo
So I've seen a lot of basketball backboards as well, a lot of old exercise equipment, which is always kind of interesting.
- [12:43]
Dina Sieg
We see an elliptical with its manual even. Bardo takes it all in without taking any of it home yet.
- [12:51]
Nick Bardo
But I'm gonna check out this pile that we just pulled up next to.
- [12:57]
Dina Sieg
He emerges with a small artificial Christmas tree, complete with its box.
- [13:03]
Nick Bardo
Talking about 40 bucks at the store. And everybody likes more Christmas decor, don't you? So that's going in.
- [13:10]
Dina Sieg
This sounds like famous final words.
- [13:13]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
No, no, no, just, you know, just
- [13:15]
Nick Bardo
bringing the joy for next season. Marie Kondo in reverse. Guys,
- [13:23]
Dina Sieg
Marie Kondo, the organizing superstar who instructs people to pare down their lives by discarding items that don't bring them joy. But for Bardo, there is joy in the accumulation of free stuff. His father's parents, born in the depression, had this.
- [13:42]
Nick Bardo
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without.
- [13:46]
Dina Sieg
Bardo says his late dad, Mark, pushed that idea to the max.
- [13:52]
Nick Bardo
He would store stuff all over the place at his friends houses. He was renowned in our hometown for basically we didn't have a cleanup like this, but he was always on the lookout. And his big Dodge Ram 2500 Cummings diesel truck, which was all beat up.
- [14:07]
Dina Sieg
Bardo's dad was a doctor. He calls him incessantly curious. The most intelligent person he's ever known. He was also collecting way too many things somehow. His dad once scored the insulation off a state prison.
- [14:23]
Nick Bardo
And so he stored tons of this really industrial insulation they never got around to using. But if he had, he would have saved thousands of dollars.
- [14:32]
Dina Sieg
Bardo's dad really resonated with the Japanese term motainai.
- [14:37]
Nick Bardo
Kind of the shame that can come along with not using something to its full capacity. He was railing against, you know, planned obsolescence and all these other pieces that I think really have rubbed off on me, obviously, as I get so much glee out of looking at all these different pieces that are out on the, on the curb. Oh, there's a composter getting that. That's going in.
- [15:07]
Dina Sieg
He packs the black barrel into the back of his SUV next to a small chest maybe a century old and some wiring he plans to make into a tomato cage. We pass by a small grill that looks great at first.
- [15:22]
Nick Bardo
It's one of these like portable little grills. I don't have one of those, but no back legs, no dice. But I will get the two shovels
- [15:32]
Dina Sieg
because he'll use them, Bardo says. And that's what he's always asking himself about as he stocks collections of watering cans, bookcases and Disney DVDs. Usefulness is why he can ignore a perfectly good terrarium but stop for a few five gallon buckets.
- [15:52]
Nick Bardo
So I need some more buckets is what I'm saying.
- [15:54]
Dina Sieg
I'm not buying them keeping the family legacy going.
- [15:58]
Nick Bardo
Oh, I was when I was leaving this morning. My mom said your dad would be
- [16:02]
Dina Sieg
proud and probably a little jealous. Grand Junction has been cleaning up like this every spring for more than 100 years. I'm Stena Sieg, CPR News and Colorado
- [16:16]
Ryan Warner
Matters continues shortly with the first singers to proclaim I was born this way. I'm Ryan Warner. You're with CPR News and KRCC. It's considered the first gay anthem, 1977's I Was Born this Way Cause I'm
- [16:34]
Carl Bean (singing)
happy carefully and gay. Yes, I'm gay Ain't no fault in the fact I was born this way. Yeah now I won't touch you don't you touch me Here on the way makes a master be. I'm happy, I'm care free and I'm g. I was born this way.
- [17:06]
Ryan Warner
I got the singer Carl Bean is as remarkable and loving as this track. As the disco era wound down, Bean met the AIDS crisis head on. As a minister.
- [17:21]
Carl Bean (spoken/singing)
There are still people all over this country this morning because of their orientation, believing that God hates them because of you. People all over this country now that look like you, you are worshiping God in the beauty of holiness just like they are. Give God the praise. Give God the praise.
- [17:46]
Ryan Warner
And while Bean might not be a household name, he has influenced superstars.
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Lady Gaga
When I learned about what Carl did, not just as a singer but as an activist, that is what really just made my heart explode because the combination of the song, the message and the human being that was behind the microphone, I thought this is very special.
- [18:13]
Ryan Warner
Lady Gaga there who'd record a little tune herself called Born this Way. Well, Carl Bean is the subject of a documentary by Oscar winning Colorado filmmaker Daniel Younge. It screens at the Boulder International Film Festival tomorrow with a talk back after I spoke with Younge last fall. And hello, Daniel.
- [18:36]
Daniel Younge
It's great to be back. Thanks, Ryan.
- [18:37]
Ryan Warner
And on the line with us from New York, Bean's longtime friend and spiritual colleague, the right beatitude, Bishop Zachary G. Jones. I'll note that Carl bean died in 2021. And Beatitude, welcome to the program.
- [18:54]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
Thank you, Ryan. Thank you for having me.
- [18:56]
Ryan Warner
Daniel, let's start with I was born this way. Also the title of your film. What was its impact in 1977?
- [19:05]
Daniel Younge
Sure. Well, for straight white cis guys from the suburbs, it may not have been as terribly impactful. I didn't know about this song until researching it for Lady Gaga's Born this Way, but to a certain subsector, it meant a great deal. It made it big in the gay clubs, it moved over to the house and dance era. So it means a great deal to music people, but especially to the LGBTQ community.
- [19:34]
Ryan Warner
And Beatitude, if I have the timeline correct, you did not know Carl Bean at the time of this song's release. Did the track mean something to you?
- [19:45]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
Oh, absolutely. I didn't know him personally at the time. The track, in terms of music was absolutely a part of our teenage gay club, so to speak. I was a gay teenager, and so I had other kids that were growing up who also were gay. We honored the song as an expression of us and kind of a coming of age song was our experience.
- [20:11]
Ryan Warner
I was going to just call up some of the lyrics because they really do resonate, especially as I reacquaint myself with them. I'm walking through life in nature's disguise. You laugh at me and you criticize. Cause I'm happy, carefree and gay. Yes, I'm gay. I mean, just hearing someone in 1977 say that in something that was popularly released, beatitude had to have had an impact.
- [20:45]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
Absolutely. That line, which also resonates with me, walking in nature's disguise, the description of that, and particularly from a woman who was kind of a friend to the gay community, felt very prophetic for me. Like, it was like level three description. Right. Of what some of us had to struggle to say I did to my parents when they were asking me, well, do you want to be a girl? Well, no, I don't want to be a girl. Well. Well, are you different? Well, yeah, I'm different, but yeah. So I didn't even have the language when first approached. And so to hear that line and how descriptive it is, not only of gay people, but for also our trans community, I. I think that line is profound.
- [21:32]
Ryan Warner
Well, and you make reference to a woman there because Carl Bean did not write I was born this way, nor frankly, was he the first to record it. Daniel.
- [21:41]
Daniel Younge
That's right. It was written by a woman named Bunny Jones and a beautician. Correct. A New York beautician who has an incredible story. You know, she's worthy of a documentary herself. And it was sung originally by a guy Named Valentino. It was a little more of a show tune, not quite as dancy.
- [22:02]
Carl Bean (singing)
I'm walking through life in nature. You laugh at me, you criticize Just because I'm happy, I can't breathe and I'm gay, yes, I'm gay. Change the culture.
- [22:31]
Daniel Younge
It never hit it big, but those same exact lyrics were, I think, what Motown was looking at. They were looking to break into the disco. I wouldn't say they were becoming irrelevant, but they always wanted to make hits, and disco was on the rise. They had this song that they had released and didn't necessarily make it big, and they thought, why don't we repurpose this? Enter Carl Bean. They're an outwardly proud gay singer that
- [22:54]
Ryan Warner
they knew of, which transforms the song and makes it a hit and gives Motown what it wanted, I guess. Were they hesitant at all with the message of the song?
- [23:05]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
Sure. I mean, for that era, you know, we. The movement, the larger LGBTQIA movement, was sort of just making their voices known. You know, Stonewall had happened, and it was sort of the aftermath of Stonewall. What now? What next? And so for Hollywood or for the entertainment community to take on the mantle and kind of move, it was just really wonderful. And I'm sure there was some discussions about risk and. Because it just was not even thought of in terms of playing it on mainstream. And Motown being a black owned, black run organization where homophobia remains to this day, in many ways, the dark Ages
- [23:53]
Ryan Warner
was really trailblazing back to Carl Bean. So he has a very difficult childhood in Baltimore. Sexually abused by his uncle, shunned by his father. He loses his mother to a clandestine abortion, and he moves to New York. Do either of you want to say how that changed him?
- [24:17]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
Well, the serendipity of the whole Carl Bean story, I think, is what's worth attending the movie for. It's just from the beginning to the end. I think that that's the theme of his life, you know, Sorry. All of these things that happen, even from Motown finding him to he finding his mother after they had been separated, it just continues thereafter, even into, you know, us having this discussion today.
- [24:45]
Ryan Warner
Oh, I'm so glad you said that, Beatitude. Because in watching the film, there's a lot of hard stuff that befalls Carl Bean. There's also, like, a lot of beauty. But it all seems to fuel his forward motion, his locomotion.
- [25:00]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
You know, if ever there was a wonderment about, you know, life's luck or whatever you want to call it, life's miracles, or everyone can relate to these incidents that happen in our lives, that there's no real explanation because it doesn't follow a straight line. It certainly is emphasized in this movie. And I think Daniel and his team did an excellent job in bringing that forward.
- [25:26]
Ryan Warner
Daniel, what do you want to say about that and maybe specifically to his time in New York?
- [25:31]
Daniel Younge
Well, I can first say that as a filmmaker, I had some reservations about how much backstory to put in, how much trauma that this guy experienced. But I think that the fact that he's not only a survivor, but that trauma informed the work that he did, the incredible work he did. Not just singing, but also all of his activism, I think, is informed by the things that he had to experience as a kid. So that's why we kept that in the film. In New York, he truly found his voice. He always loved music. He always had a wonderful voice. But in New York, he found a burgeoning gospel scene in the 60s and befriended Dionne Warwick and some other luminaries in New York. And he really finds his voice and he starts being accepted and loved for what he's doing.
- [26:16]
Ryan Warner
I was so moved by an anecdote in the film. I just can't get it out of my head. Daniel. Carl is a pretty lonely kid in Baltimore, bullied, I think in part because he's effeminate and his singing voice becomes his companion when he's little.
- [26:32]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
Yeah, certainly, if I may say, his stories that he shared with us around his New York experience, one of the biggest things. You're absolutely right, Daniel. One of the biggest things around him, finding his voice. You know, he ends up on Broadway in Diane Carroll's you Arms Too Short to Box with God. And he suddenly has found his voice and it is being honored and appreciated now on stage.
- [27:00]
Ryan Warner
Well, and I think that for him, music is not just entertainment, it is part of a movement. It's certainly godliness. He eventually moves to the west coast and founds a group called Universal Love.
- [27:17]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
Gotta be so changed now
- [27:23]
Carl Bean (singing)
Gotta be so changed now. Talk is off the cheap it don't mean much to me the hungry hat
- [27:36]
Carl Bean (spoken/singing)
to eat could be some change.
- [27:43]
Carl Bean (singing)
What about the old now?
- [27:46]
Ryan Warner
And as he pursues more of this spiritually driven music, at the same time, we're talking about, you know, his claim to fame through disco with the re release of I Was Born this Way and I Learned from your film, Daniel, just how much race and racism were part of the decline of disco, the anti disco movement. Will you talk about that?
- [28:16]
Daniel Younge
Sure. The so called death of disco, as Carl tells it, and Other people have too, really was about black and gay people finding power in the music industry and the white rock establishment butting up against that.
- [28:31]
Ryan Warner
I mean, in some ways, it's less the death of disco as maybe the killing of it.
- [28:35]
Daniel Younge
Sure. But for those who know, disco never truly dies. It just, it moves underground, it becomes houses, it becomes dance music. Disco never, never really died.
- [28:52]
Ryan Warner
The documentary from Oscar winner Daniel Younge is I Was Born this Way. It's about the music and the mission of the late Carl Bean. Bean's longtime friend and fellow clergy member also joins us. The Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones. The film screens tomorrow at the Boulder International Film Festival. Still to come, Bean becomes a fighter as the AIDS epidemic descends on his community. I'm Ryan Warner. You're with CPR News and krcc. Before Lady Gaga's Born this Way, there was I Was Born this way. The 1977 disco hit is considered the original gay anthem. The singer Carl Bean left the recording studio, though, for the pulpit just as the AIDS crisis hit the black community of Los Angeles. There's a documentary about Bean by Colorado Oscar winner Daniel Younge. It screens tomorrow at the Boulder International Film Fest. Younge joined us in October along with the Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones, who's in the movie Beatitude. Your first encounters with Carl Bean were to drive him around. Where? Where were you going?
- [30:20]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
Well, makes it clear that he had a strong passion for those who were being hospitalized and for those of us who lived through it, there were no answers. The doctors were, we don't have a cure. I mean, it was kind of like the early stages of COVID like we just don't have a cure and it may be 10 years before we get one. We did what we knew to do and that was have a presence. And so when as I saw him, I was working at Delta Airlines at the time, but I had to be to work until 3 o'. Clock. So it was like, tell you what, you can use me from 11 till, you know, two and I can get you around to the hospitals because this is not Baltimore. We are. Public transportation in LA is horrible. And so the least I could do is help you do that. He was very moved by my willingness to do that. And I didn't think it was much, but apparently to him, he thought it was quite a bit.
- [31:15]
Ryan Warner
And say more about what you were driving him to and the work that he was engaged in.
- [31:20]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
Yeah, many of our patients were at the USC Medical center, which was then General Hospital in Los Angeles. That was quite a distance from where he lived on Cochrane Avenue. And I was like, hey, I've got a little Datsun. Let's get in it and let's roll. You know, let's schedule it, let's decide how many patients we can see in the day and let's do it. And, and just kind of on the way is where we were able to forge our commonalities and our friendship and get to know each other better. And it, it really was a, a friendship that I am still very honored to have had.
- [31:55]
Daniel Younge
I think it's also important to mention that Carl first started volunteering in West Hollywood where the early organizations that were helping out AIDS patients were there. And that's when he recognized the need that people of color weren't being served. And of course it was ravaging the black and brown community. And that's why he moved east and south in LA and needed wheels from Beatitude.
- [32:20]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
That is true. But I like to paint a picture of the environment that we were in. Our friends were dying, they were really dying. We were like doing back to back funerals. It was an unbelievable environment in terms of yes, he did volunteer in West Hollywood. It had not hit our community yet. And then when it did hit, it was like, omg, what are we going to do here? There was a lot of confusion about it because we were told that it was a white gay men's disease and that was contained in the north part of our city. So there were practices, particularly sexual practices that were never changed or even aware of. And so during that little season of time, infection rates skyrocketed. And by the time that we discovered that it was not, not a white gay disease, our people were falling just like Jax.
- [33:18]
Ryan Warner
I think at one point in the film there's talk of body bags and as many as 15 funerals in a week. Beatitude that Carl Bean attended.
- [33:30]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
Yeah, even I, you know, I was infected around that time and, and was given 10 years to live. And so there was a lot of fear, there was a lot of uncertainty.
- [33:40]
Ryan Warner
Carl Bean marshals his musical relationships to help fight the AIDS crisis. I'm thinking particularly of Dionne Warwick, whom you invoked a little earlier. Daniel. So in this clip you will hear Carl first and Ms. Warwick second.
- [33:57]
Carl Bean (spoken/singing)
AIDS is a problem. It's a problem we do not have to run from, that we can stand still, take care of and solve with love from all of and we know that to be a fact. And with the help of Ms. Warwick
- [34:10]
Dionne Warwick
Foundation, I felt need to see what this HIV AIDS thing was. We would sit and Talk about the problem itself and the shortcomings that went along with it. And I felt that instead of sitting around the table, as I had a scholar of doing, as everybody else was talking about it, let's try to do something about it. So I got very busy. It is a disease that is killing, especially in our black areas, black people. One dies every two hours. We gotta stop it. We just have to.
- [34:53]
Ryan Warner
A clip from the documentary I Was Born this Way. It is about the singer and the clergy member Carl Bean. DANIEL When Carl Bean passed away, was most of the coverage the death of the singer of I Was Born this Way, or did people at the time understand what this singer had done in the latter half of his life?
- [35:21]
Daniel Younge
No, I think if you read the New York Times obit, it recognizes him as an activist who also sang this song, not a singer who became an activist. I mean, I think the song is the center of the film, and I think it's a wonderful piece of pop culture, and it, too, was very important, which we established. But, you know, Carl's work, both with the Minority Age Project and the church that he formed, Unity Fellowship, it literally saved people's lives. And, you know, I don't know if you can attribute that to the song, but the work that he did as representative Maxine Waters says in the film, changed the black community.
- [35:58]
Ryan Warner
Carl Bean indeed goes mainly from music to ministry, although those two things had always been connected for him to some extent before. We have Beatitude address this, because this is his life's work. Will you just say a few words, Daniel, about the denomination he founded? Carl Bean founded.
- [36:18]
Daniel Younge
It's called Unity Fellowship Church. It started in LA and it moved to New York. Beatitude bishop opened the church in New York, and then it spread to, I believe, 16 churches now, nationally and internationally. And I think it's worth saying that there's a Venn diagram where black civil rights and LGBTQ rights overlap, but Carl inhabits the space where Christianity overlaps with that. And Billy Porters, who is in the film, says that the first thing black queer people, the first thing they have to give up sometimes is God, because that community has been homophobic. And Carl inhabits a unique space where he's addressing black rights, queer rights and Christianity and Beatitude.
- [37:03]
Ryan Warner
You carry on this spiritual tradition very much. Why?
- [37:06]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
Because I believe in it. I believe in the message. I believe in the radical inclusion. I believe there are still an incredible amount of work that we have to do, even though society has come a very long ways in honoring our lives, many of our families are not that friendly to us. And so there's still a lot of work that needs to be done from the crib to the grave, because parents are often feeling very ashamed and. And guilty when they find that their son might be a little effeminate or. I'm hearing still a lot of horror stories over the tomboy girls that grew up and some of the things that their parents are feeling rather than being supportive. So there's still a lot of work to do. We're still in barbaric ages of this movement, and so I feel like Carl's legacy is relative. And the title of the song, I Was Born this Way, speaks volumes to choice versus a natural way of being right. That's a conversation and an argument that has not been resolved. And we're nowhere close. Oftentimes our community is treated as though we're not in nature's disguise. And so I was born this way is in and of itself, speaks volumes to the natural being of who we are.
- [38:32]
Ryan Warner
Daniel, you were getting at this when you were talking about the trifecta of something that affirms one's blackness, one's queerness, and one's Christianity. A theme of this film is, I think, the oppressed sometimes becoming the oppressor. I mean, you explore how the black community, itself, oppressed, can turn on its queer brothers and sisters, and then how the queer community can discriminate against some of its own. I mean, I think it's very fair to say that the queer community can be particularly racist. Was that a learning curve for you? What did you call yourself, a white CIS het suburban kid or something like that?
- [39:16]
Daniel Younge
Yeah. I am not from this community, and I should say, first of all, that I have a venerable African American co director on the film. Our lead producer is gay. The majority of key people on the film are LGBTQ identifying or African American or people of color. That's important to me, not just in terms of optics, but how you make the film. And I also think that that gives us the right to say some of these things and not whitewash or, you know, perhaps blackwash history in. In terms of making it very clean. And the truth is, there was racism within the gay community. There was homophobia within the African American community. This is a film about intersectional rights, and wherever there's overlap in rights, there's going to be conflict. And we wanted to. We wanted that represented in the film and not show this as a squeaky clean movement.
- [40:11]
Ryan Warner
Beatitude. Anything to add?
- [40:13]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
It is always interesting, particularly from the black community, how a group of people who was so marginalized can turn on its own. But in many ways I do get it that at the so called dawning of the fact that we have gay people in our community, of course they've always been there felt too many people. Okay, here we go with another issue that the black community has to contend with. Oh, and so as a community, this is the last thing we need. We don't need to, you know, we're fighting for civil rights and here comes this thing.
- [40:55]
Ryan Warner
Don't complicate. Don't complicate it, you know.
- [40:58]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So the pushback stems from the way that the black community views itself and its own identity. And now comes the shame yet again. And we're trying to overcome the shame of having nappy hair. We're trying to. To overcome the shame of being miseducated or under educated. And the last thing we need is the have to deal with same sex issues and of course, transgender siblings. I mean, that's just not even to be even to this day thought about.
- [41:35]
Ryan Warner
You know, that's such a. It's such a generous interpretation. Beatitude attitude is nothing if not generous, if not generous. All right, well, we're hearing that today, folks. Okay, Daniel Youngi. How bold a line can we draw between Carl Bean's I was born this way and Lady Gaga is born this way?
- [41:58]
Daniel Younge
Well, we don't have to draw that line. Gaga does it herself. And I found this story because I was researching a series on social action and music and. And thought of Lady Gaga's Born this Way being the ultimate queer anthem from my generation. And that's how I found Carl's story, because she went on the Howard Stern show and was very overt that her song, which is an original new song that she did, was an homage to this earlier song and an homage to the man who sang it after her
- [42:26]
Ryan Warner
own education about him. You know.
- [42:29]
Daniel Younge
That's right. Well, she's obviously been heavily involved in this community, but it was a friend of hers who is a co writer on the song who brought her to that song and was. It was an epiphany for her, which you'll hear in the. In the film.
- [43:02]
Carl Bean (singing)
I was gonna play the.
- [43:15]
Ryan Warner
Daniel, your film is very much driven by an extensive interview with Carl Bean as he sits in an overstuffed recliner. Talk about that recliner and how you had the foresight to get Bean on tape before we lost him. Him.
- [43:31]
Daniel Younge
Well, for those who watch the film, you'll see that this recliner is placed in his church and Carl seems to be speaking from his church when the reality is spoiler alert, that late in the film we learn that he's gravely ill and has not left his home in three years. So he's sitting in his home. But we just didn't want that kind of, like, downer and that humble environment that he passed away in. Unfortunately, we didn't want that to kind of inform the film and the fact that he should be celebrated and in the place that he created and have kind of a regal appearance in the film.
- [44:10]
Ryan Warner
You wanted there to be a sense of dignity on screen, I think.
- [44:15]
Daniel Younge
And also I just didn't want to tip our hat to where Carl ended up, which is, you know, beatitude. I get emotional thinking about how the humble way that Carl died, considering all the people that he saved and all the work that he did.
- [44:34]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
Yeah, I thought you all did a wonderful job in lifting that part of his life to honor his voice at the end in his own interpretation of his life. The timing was absolutely perfect. You know, it's. As a Christian, Jesus had some parting words.
- [44:57]
Ryan Warner
Yeah.
- [44:57]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
Even words that, I'm sorry, even for
- [44:59]
Daniel Younge
a heathen filmmaker like me, there were some better angels looking out for us.
- [45:06]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
Absolutely. I mean, the knowing Carl, the way that I did, his ability to do that in the last known stages of his life, he was very much aware of that was just a tremendous gift that he wanted to leave. He and I had conversations during the filming. So it was right on, man. It was really right on.
- [45:29]
Ryan Warner
Well, love is an enormous theme in his life and in this film. But there's another L word I'd like to invoke before we go, and that's liberation. So how about we end on a long lost B side to I Was Born this Way? Indeed. Billy Porter becomes quite an advocate for getting this song out. It is in the archives of the son of the beautician songwriter behind I Was Born this Way before. We hear it. And we'll hear the original B side, even though it was remixed later. But will you each share a few words about the tracks? Liberation? Daniel, go ahead.
- [46:15]
Daniel Younge
Sure. Even though this is a historical film, there's sort of a present day treasure hunt in the middle of it. And that is that Liberation, which was a B side demo recorded the same day as I Was Born this Way, written by the same woman and with the same disco vibe, was never released. And we thought lost to history. Actually, Universal is a partner on this film, and we dug through their vaults thinking that's where it should be. We thought that it had expired in. There was a fire that a lot of important archives burnt up. And then at the end of one of the interviews with the son of the woman who wrote the film, I asked about the fate of that master and he said, oh, you mean the one in my closet.
- [46:59]
Ryan Warner
Whoa,
- [47:02]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
eureka.
- [47:02]
Daniel Younge
He said, do you want to open it up? And I said, no, because at that point we had Billy Porter involved. And I said, keep that closed and let's get that on film, which it is in the film.
- [47:11]
Ryan Warner
Oh, that's such restraint from a filmmaker who knows there's more narrative to unfold and overrides any desire you'd have to immediately dive into the box.
- [47:23]
Daniel Younge
I think restraint is the euphemism here for a control freak, which we have to be as documentary filmmakers.
- [47:29]
Ryan Warner
Thank you both for being with us.
- [47:32]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
Thank you.
- [47:32]
Daniel Younge
Thanks for having me again, Ryan.
- [47:38]
Carl Bean (spoken/singing)
Liberation.
- [47:40]
Carl Bean (singing)
Liberation. I'm so glad you came. I'm no longer frustrated. Newly emancipated,
- [47:58]
Ryan Warner
The documentary I Was Born this Way, about the late musician and minister Carl Bean, screens at the Boulder International Film Festival tomorrow, followed by a panel discussion. We spoke with Oscar winning director Daniel Younge and Bean's contemporary, the Right Beatitude, Bishop Zachary G. Jones last fall. And that is colorado matters for now, with thanks to our crew, sandy bertulga,
- [48:35]
Daniel Younge
tyler bender, carl bielek, anthony cotton, pete kramer, andrea dukakis, zan huckpechone, matt herz,
- [48:45]
Right Beatitude Bishop Zachary G. Jones
tom hess, michael hughes, pedro lumbragno, shane
- [48:49]
Dina Sieg
rumsey, haley sanchez, chandra thomas whitfield.
- [48:53]
Ryan Warner
And I'm ryan warner. Thank you. Thanks for spending time with us at cpr news and krcc.