August 10, 2026: Creating a sustainable golf course that's wildlife, pollinator and plant-friendly

Summary

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Colorado Matters – August 10, 2026: Creating a Sustainable Golf Course that's Wildlife, Pollinator and Plant-Friendly

Hosts: Ryan Warner, Chandra Thomas Whitfield
Guests: Rebecca Huft (Denver Botanic Gardens), Joe McCleary & Mitch Savage (Colorado Golf Association), Emily Scott Robinson (musician), Ishan Thakor (CPR)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Colorado Matters dives into cutting-edge environmental stewardship at Common Ground Golf Course in Aurora, where the Colorado Golf Association (CGA) and Denver Botanic Gardens (DBG) collaborate to reimagine golf courses as havens for wildlife, pollinators, and native plants. The hosts also explore Kremmling’s community-driven response to a water crisis and showcase Ouray singer-songwriter Emily Scott Robinson's new album "Appalachia," blending musical reflections on place, resilience, and faith.

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Sustainable Golf Courses: Transforming Green Spaces into Wildlife Habitats

Location: Common Ground Golf Course, Aurora
Primary Guests: Rebecca Huft (DBG), Joe McCleary (CGA, retired), Mitch Savage (CGA)

Key Points & Insights

Urban Golf Courses: Underutilized Habitats (02:19–03:05)

• Rebecca Huft notes, “These [golf courses] are one of the biggest open spaces that we have in our urban areas. Also, a lot of the day, right, there actually aren’t people on this golf course and this is where animals are moving through.”
• Efforts are underway to restore "rough" areas (non-playing surfaces) with native wildflowers and grasses to promote biodiversity.

Addressing Perceptions: Partnership Skepticism (03:19–04:09)

• Ryan Warner raises the common critique: “The Botanic Gardens teaming up with the golf industry is gonna strike people perhaps as absurd and maybe even greenwashing...”
• Rebecca Huft acknowledges skepticism but emphasizes practicality and potential: “The fact is, this is some of the largest wildlife habitat that we have in the city. Can we make it the best that it can be?”

The Genesis: How the Partnership Began (04:20–05:37)

• Joe McCleary shares:
  • His experience photo-documenting native wildflowers after cattle grazing ceased at Saddle Rock Golf Course.
  • Personal ties with the DBG through plant societies, bringing new perspectives to the golf industry.

Innovation Hub: The Golf Course as Laboratory (05:37–07:05)

• Mitch Savage: “Everything that we do out here, whether it’s environmental or programming... it’s all based on using the golf course as a laboratory.”
• The course is a testing ground for turf, water conservation, and youth development programs.

Replicating the Model Nationally (07:33–08:14)

• Joe McCleary: “We know that this is the only relationship between a botanic garden, a state golf association, and a golf course in the United States.”
• Outreach with national organizations to export the model to diverse regions.

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Water Conservation and Drought Resilience

Challenges & Strategies (08:14–09:40)

• Ryan Warner: “Is part of the goal here to come up with even playing surfaces that require less water?”
• Mitch Savage: Emphasizes recycled wastewater use: “About 33% of Colorado’s golf courses utilize recycled wastewater... A lot of golf courses aren’t taking away valuable drinking water from residents.”

The Vision for Sustainable Courses (09:47–10:39)

• Rebecca Huft: “All around you, around every hole, is native ecosystem and native habitat. There’s birds flying overhead, bees pollinating the flowers... deer and fox on site.”
  • The goal: Integration of nature and recreation, benefiting players and wildlife.

Birds and Biodiversity (10:47–11:46)

• Joe McCleary: Regular birding groups find 40+ species in one day, with nearly 150 species documented, including bald eagles.
• Drought affects not only golf aesthetics but migratory birds dependent on water features.

Breaking Down Barriers with the Community (11:46–12:41)

• Ryan Warner: “A lot of what you’re talking about is dissolving the wall between the community and the course. Does that make sense?”
• Programs like “Golf in Schools” bring new users and educational opportunities to the property.
• Joe McCleary: “This is not only community asset, not only laboratory, but it’s a sphere... we’re balancing every aspect.”

Overcoming Skepticism and Sharing Success (13:02–13:57)

• Mitch Savage’s anecdote: A local birdwatcher “completely changed” her perception of golf courses after experiencing the habitat firsthand: “She just kind of shook her head and said, wow, who would have ever thought?” (13:57)

Resilience of Native Plants (14:04–14:28)

• Rebecca Huft: “These plants deal with drought. They deal with grazing... They can deal with some people walking over them.”

Golfer Engagement and Education (14:28–15:45)

• Rebecca Huft: “When we talk about how we’re studying plants and the insects that are here, we’ve only received positive feedback.”
• Mitch Savage: Plans to expand signage highlighting conservation efforts to engage golfers.

Bridging Cultures: Horticulture Meets Golf (15:48–16:59)

• Joe McCleary recounts presenting at ecology conferences and the importance of a “network that will be unbelievable in the future.”
• Rebecca Huft shares her own initial skepticism, transformed by field experiences: “Once we drove around the golf course, we did our dog and pony show... and a red tailed hawk landed above us. It was a sign.” (16:59)

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Kremmling: A Town Confronts Water Scarcity

Reporter: Ishan Thakor

Key Takeaways

The Crisis & Solution (17:51–20:37)

• Low snowpack and rapid melt left Kremmling with one functional reservoir; backup infrastructure failed.
• Strict water restrictions achieved a 45% reduction in town consumption.
• Downstream farmers/ranchers accepted significant reductions, even leaving fields fallow, to enable upstream municipal survival.
  • Jim Debell (ranch manager): "We're proud to be part of the community, you know, trying to help each other..." (21:06)

Regional Water Insecurity (21:42–22:42)

• Other Western towns faced similar or worse scenarios—some in Utah ran out of drinking water.
• Lindsey Defrates (Colorado River District): “This year has stripped away a lot of our assumptions that it'll be okay. You know, we've come right up to the edge of it's not going to be okay.” (22:03)
• Kremmling is fixing its backup pump to prepare for future drought years.

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Appalachia by Emily Scott Robinson: Song, Healing & Sense of Place

Guest: Emily Scott Robinson
Segment starts: 24:07

Roots & Spirituality

• Reflects on growing up in the Presbyterian church in North Carolina, now experiencing nature as church in Colorado.
  • “I think that the culture out here is more that nature is church for people, community is church for people.” (25:18–26:05)

Writing "Hymn for the Unholy" (26:32–32:10)

• Written during a healing, “stranded” winter retreat in the West Elk Mountains after divorce.
  • “The song...just started to pour out of me.” (29:16)
  • “I was finding that angle. I was beginning to see it in that way. I was able to start to find, through the writing, this perspective on it that had a lot more mercy and grace in it.” (31:55)

Memorable Lyrics

“Cause I’ve worn diamonds to the party, I’ve worn borrowed, I’ve worn blue
And I’ve done every single goddamn thing I swore I’d never do
Here’s a hymn for the unholy, for the savage and the true
You’ve only got one life, dear, heed the voice that calls to you.” (29:16)

The Rockies versus the Appalachians (32:10–34:39)

• Rockies: “The Rocky Mountains don’t care if you die in them or not. They’re so dangerous in many ways...They’re always putting you in your place.”
• Appalachians: “A softer and gentler quality of healing and wisdom and quiet and solace...a more motherly or nurturing quality.” (33:48)

Title Track "Appalachia" and Musical Lineage (34:39–37:53)

• Modal (Celtic) tuning imparts an “ancient” feeling, reflecting ancestral heritage.
  • “There is an ancestral lineage between Celtic music and the people who found their way to the Appalachian Mountains.” (36:19)
  • “These drone sounding songs...pulling us back to the center. That’s what I drew on.” (37:18)

Notable Quote

• “Even if you can’t name why it gives you that old feeling, but it feels ancient.” (37:53)

Community Resilience After Disaster (37:53–41:02)

• Hurricane Helene devastated her native North Carolina, but inspired extraordinary neighborliness and selflessness.
  • “I’ve never felt so close to my community...it changed the way people were showing up for each other.”
  • “It didn’t matter who you were or who you voted for. People were showing up for each other.” (39:21–40:48)

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Place, Change, and the Fragility of Community

Ouray, Affordable Housing, and a ‘Hug’ from the Canyon (42:03–43:10)

• Robinson praises her community’s effort to keep "regular working-class families" in Ouray with affordable housing.
  • “That matters so much, it’s changed my life.” (43:05)

"Dirtbag Saloon": On Vanishing Local Character (43:10–46:44)

• Song inspired by Linda’s Bistro in Paonia—quirky, cash-only, a testimony to Colorado’s rapidly changing rural towns.
• Lyrics:

“Linda’s is open on Fridays and Christmas, she lives in the back, it’s a cash only business...Everyone drinks here and no one makes trouble...If it ain’t gone yet, it’s going soon. Get your last round in at the dirt baby bag saloon.” (43:27–44:33)

• “It’s one of those places that if you know, you know...there are gunshot holes in the ceiling. It’s an old saloon.”

Honoring Influences, Cherishing Community (47:32–49:08)

• Signed to John Prine’s Oh Boy Records; would play "Dirtbag Saloon" for Prine as a nod to his storytelling legacy.
• Themes of blessings, gratitude, and tradition permeate her newest songs.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On perceptions of golf courses:
  “Golf courses may strike some as rarefied places...A lot of what you’re talking about is dissolving the wall between the community and the course.” – Ryan Warner, (11:46)
• On the mission:
  “Every space that we inhabit is an ecosystem. And our urban spaces have so much wildlife and potential. So let’s make it the best it can be.” – Rebecca Huft, (12:45)
• On partnership beginnings:
  “Once we drove around the golf course...a red tailed hawk landed above us. It was a sign.” – Joe McCleary, (16:59)
• On water scarcity:
  “This year has stripped away a lot of our assumptions that it’ll be okay. You know, we’ve come right up to the edge of it’s not going to be okay.” – Lindsey Defrates, (22:03)
• On leaving and loving:
  “I think that it takes a lot of courage to walk away from something that’s not working for both people...I do see that as a success.” – Emily Scott Robinson, (30:40)
• On musical tradition:
  “There is an ancestral lineage between Celtic music and the people who found their way to the Appalachian Mountains.” – Emily Scott Robinson, (36:19)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:19 Introduction at Common Ground Golf Course, wildlife habitat restoration
• 03:19 Discussing skepticism about golf-industry partnerships
• 05:37 "Golf course as laboratory" concept emerges
• 07:47 Nationalizing the golf-botanic garden collaboration
• 09:47 Recycled wastewater and drought adaptation
• 13:57 Changing public perceptions through birdwatching
• 18:57 Kremmling water crisis, solutions implemented
• 22:03 Regional water insecurity and changing assumptions
• 24:07 Emily Scott Robinson: Healing through music and sense of place
• 29:16 "Hymn for the Unholy" lyrics highlight
• 32:27 Comparing the Rockies and Appalachians
• 43:27 "Dirtbag Saloon" – ode to disappearing Colorado bar culture

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Conclusion

This episode showcases how unexpected partnerships—between botanic gardens and golf associations, between municipalities and ranchers, between artists and place—can foster sustainable landscapes, resilient communities, and new ways of seeing the land and each other. Whether considering the wild edges of a golf course or the wild heart of a mountain song, Colorado Matters reveals how Coloradans are reimagining what it means to thrive, together, in a changing world.

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Transcript

[Emily Scott Robinson]

The fatal shooting of a teenager at a protest in Seattle has gone unsolved for six years.

[Ryan Warner]

This is open in your face. How are there no answers?

[Emily Scott Robinson]

Our investigation has uncovered new evidence and witnesses who say they've never talked to police.

[Mitch Savage]

Did police ever call you?

[Emily Scott Robinson]

Not once. Listen to We Keep Us Safe, a new True crime series on the embedded podcast from npr.

[Ryan Warner]

When it comes to wildlife and water use, golf courses have room for improvement.

[Rebecca Huft]

These are one of the biggest open spaces that we have in our urban areas. Also, a lot of the day there actually aren't people on this golf course and this is where animals are moving through.

[Ryan Warner]

Today a one of a kind partnership between golfers and the Botanic Gardens. Then the town of Kremmling has pulled itself out of a water crisis.

[Ishan Thakor]

For now, they were able to cut their daily consumption by about 45%.

[Ryan Warner]

And on her album Appalachia, a Uray singer songwriter contrasts her hometown mountains with her adopted Rockies.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

We're always experiencing rockfall and avalanche. And I believe Edward Abbey famously said that the San Juan Mountains where I live are mountains that are in a rush to get back to the sea. They're always crumbling.

[Ryan Warner]

It's Colorado Matters from CPR News. I'm Ryan Warner. We'll start today's show in a laboratory, but you won't hear a centrifuge. Rather, I've come to Common Ground Golf Course in Aurora, what used to be the Lowry Air Force Base. Now balls do the flying here. How's this a laboratory, you might wonder. Well, this course is owned by the Colorado Golf association, and it's where they try stuff out different kinds of turf water conservation. They train young people to become caddies here, too. I hopped into a golf cart and headed onto the course to hear about an unusual collaboration between Common Ground and Denver Botanic Gardens. Standing in an unkempt patch is the garden's Rebecca Huft, retired sustainability officer at the CGA, Joe McCleary and current director of Agronomy, Mitch Savage. Becky, where have you brought us?

[Rebecca Huft]

So right now we're standing at one of the rough areas at Common Ground golf course.

[Ryan Warner]

Hole 15.

[Rebecca Huft]

Hole 15. We decided to try to improve wildlife habitat here, and our first project was to try to bring back some more pollinators. So here we put in some native wildflowers to try to improve the habitat,

[Ryan Warner]

because a golf course is not just the surfaces you play on, it is the spaces in between.

[Rebecca Huft]

These are one of the biggest open spaces that we have in our urban areas. Also, a lot of the day right there actually aren't People on this golf course, and this is where animals are moving through, and there's a lot of area that we can have native plants and have animals, birds coming in and having habitat. So the idea is to find better ways to work with these golf course spaces to improve the wildlife habitat.

[Ryan Warner]

And so what are the plant species around us?

[Rebecca Huft]

So there weren't a lot of native wildflowers here on site when we first started. We didn't remove the existing grass that was here, but we came in and we introduced a seed mix that has native wildflowers in it.

[Ryan Warner]

I am just gonna ask the skeptical question right here off the top. The Botanic Gardens teaming up with the golf industry is gonna strike people perhaps as absurd and maybe even greenwashing, because golf courses require water, they require land. People have strong feelings.

[Rebecca Huft]

People have very strong feelings. And we've had a lot of conversations about that throughout this partnership, being realistic about what this space is and what it can be. And I've been a conservation biologist for a long time. I also had not thought of this when I first started my career, and I've been really surprised by thinking in new ways and thinking about, if this weren't a golf course, what would it be? And the fact is, this is some of the largest wildlife habitat that we have in the city. And can we make it the best that it can be?

[Ryan Warner]

Because it could be apartments, it could be impenetrable surfaces. So you have to think about not just golf courses in a vacuum, but development in general.

[Rebecca Huft]

Right.

[Ryan Warner]

Well, this wacky idea, my understanding belongs to Joe McCleary. He's retired chief Sustainability Officer for the Colorado Golf Association. Joe, you originated the call to the Botanic Gardens?

[Joe McCleary]

Yeah, that's correct, Ryan. I worked for a long time with a member of the Botanic Garden staff when I was at Saddle Rock Golf Course. And after the golf course was constructed and the cattle were gone, I noticed a lot of native wildflowers flowering. And so I would photo document those. And then I'm of the Cactus and Succulent Society and the Rock Garden Society at the Botanic Gardens. So that introduced me to a wide range of people. I wasn't afraid to share what I did for a living. But like we're doing today, I would bring a lot of people out to the golf course and show them what was flowering so that they could see and appreciate it like I was appreciating.

[Ryan Warner]

So your former course had been ranch land?

[Joe McCleary]

Had been ranch land. Yeah. It's like I said, Saddle Rock Golf Course in the city of Aurora, and it was Used for cattle grazing.

[Ryan Warner]

And once the cattle left and the golf course came in, there were changes to the natural landscape.

[Joe McCleary]

Right. Those cattle weren't grazing off the plants, you know, right at ground level. The golf course allowed them to mature and essentially became an area where those plants could be observed. And we found some species that are a little unusual out at Saddle Rock. So the Botanic Garden has spent some time out there even in recent weeks.

[Ryan Warner]

Mitch Savage, director of agronomy here. This is not just any golf course. So the Colorado Golf association is in rarefied company in running its own course. You refer to this also as.

[Mitch Savage]

It's a laboratory.

[Ryan Warner]

A laboratory, yes.

[Mitch Savage]

That has been a shining star northern light objective for the CGA before I even got here. And to this day, everything that we do out here, whether it's environmental or programming, junior programs, adults, education, it's all based on using the golf course as a laboratory.

[Ryan Warner]

And that might mean the science, the plant science, the water science. It might mean training people to become caddies. It's about youth development. You don't see this as the typical course.

[Mitch Savage]

No, it certainly is not. And I. I had a little bit of that background education, and that was the reason why I applied for this job when there was an opportunity. And I fall in love with everything it stands for more and more each year.

[Ryan Warner]

You really have. It's not that you've had the Kool Aid. It's that you've had the Arnold Palmer. I guess you've really swallowed the Arnold Palmer.

[Mitch Savage]

I like to tell people I've been the luckiest person, I think, in this whole dbg, cga, common ground partnership. Because when I was hired as the golf course superintendent or director of agronomy here, I'm not gonna lie, my sole focus was down the middle. I was worried about the tees, the fairways, the greens. But because of people like Becky and Joe, I have learned a ton. And it has taught me to zoom out from the playing corridors of the golf course and look at the property

[Ryan Warner]

as a whole, the out of play areas of the golf course, and that these are living spaces. You know, it makes me think, Becky, as you mentioned, what else this could be? It's fascinating to think what it was. This, where we're standing, was an Air Force base.

[Rebecca Huft]

It was. So it was originally shortgrass prairie, and then it became Lowry Air Force Base.

[Ryan Warner]

And so this could have been a Runway.

[Rebecca Huft]

Otherwise, part of the golf course was a Runway, and that was part of the reconstruction.

[Ryan Warner]

Mitch, is the hope that what you learn here can be applied to other Courses.

[Joe McCleary]

Well, we know that this is the only relationship between a botanic gardens estate, golf association and a golf course in the United States.

[Ryan Warner]

Oh, wow.

[Joe McCleary]

So you're exactly right, Ryan. We've had conversations with the United States Golf association, the Golf Course Superintendents association of America, and several other groups to see how we can take this model and spread it to golf courses and golf associations and botanic gardens across the country. We've had conversations with people at the Morton Arboretum in Chicago, Atlanta Botanic Garden. So that's something Becky and Mitch and I have been working on, is how do we spread this message?

[Ryan Warner]

I want to ask specifically about water. So we are in a fantastic drought right now. It's been hot, it's been dry. Wildfires raging. Is part of the goal here to come up with even playing surfaces that require less water.

[Mitch Savage]

I'm glad you raised the water topic because it certainly is front and center and it's on everyone's mind this year more than probably in the past 20 years since we really kind of saw a drought like this. And when you talk water on golf courses, I think it's important to talk about sources of water, too, before you start talking about converting.

[Ryan Warner]

What are you tapping into?

[Mitch Savage]

Yeah, exactly. So what we're seeing now is, you know, golf courses that water with potable or drinking water, they're seeing the biggest restrictions they're having to cut back. Most golf courses are being asked to cut their water use by 20% over their last five year average.

[Ryan Warner]

I just spoke to the mayor of La Vida Colorado who says the golf course in town, there's not a green patch in sight.

[Mitch Savage]

Yep. So you're seeing some of that around the Denver metro area, for sure. Golf course such as us, we utilize recycled wastewater from the city of Denver, so we're not facing as severe of restrictions at this time. If the drought level were increased, we potentially could. And it's interesting to note about 33% of Colorado's golf courses utilize recycled wastewater, and that's significantly higher than the national average. So it's something we're pretty proud of. A lot of golf courses aren't taking away valuable drinking water from residents. We're using recycled, treated wastewater.

[Ryan Warner]

Yeah, that's fascinating because gray water is so controversial in homes. But it sounds like golf courses have paved a fair way.

[Mitch Savage]

Yeah.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay, Becky, paint a picture of the ideal golf course. What would you see if golf courses did everything they could?

[Rebecca Huft]

I think as you're walking around the course, playing your game right, there's still people out recreating, walking the course, playing Golf. But all around you, around every hole, is native ecosystem and native habitat. There's birds flying overhead, bees pollinating the flowers. There's butterflies. There's deer and fox on site.

[Ryan Warner]

Have you seen deer and fox here?

[Rebecca Huft]

Yes. Cool.

[Mitch Savage]

Okay.

[Rebecca Huft]

Yeah, there's hawks. There's all sorts of birds. Lots of insects, snakes. Yeah, you name it. They already are using this site. So how can we make it better? And I think if even the people who are coming out here to play golf and might not know what a native of grassland prairie looks like, you know, you can walk through it. That'd be the ideal.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

Right.

[Rebecca Huft]

Whatever habitat you're in, you get to experience being out in nature, also doing this game that you want to play, but also providing good habitat and hopefully

[Ryan Warner]

that hawk doesn't get whacked by a ball.

[Rebecca Huft]

I feel like the hawks are probably pretty smart.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay. Oh, they've adapted. Yes, they've adapted to this.

[Joe McCleary]

Then we have a birding group that comes out here once a month and twice a month during migration season. So this past Saturday, we were out. You think our group of carts was big. We had nine. 18 people came out driving nine Golf cars. We saw over 40 species of birds on the golf course and in areas owned by the golf course to the west. But you mentioned the drought. Yeah, the drought impacts those migratory shorebirds and ducks and waterfowl. And so the area to the west of the golf course, which is owned by the golf course, is really dry because it's a detention area for stormwater. So there were very limited shorebirds. So not only does the drought affect golfers, homeowners, others because of water conservation, but with limited precipitation coming from the sky, it affects migratory birds. But in one day, 40 different species. And I looked at the list, and I think I saw a couple new ones. So we're probably approaching 150 species, including bald eagles, that have been seen out on this property.

[Ryan Warner]

Ryan, you know, the theme I'm picking up from y' all is golf courses may strike some as rarefied places that, you know, maybe if they don't play golf, they don't have access to, or perhaps they can't afford. A lot of what you're talking about is dissolving the wall between the community and the course. Does that make sense?

[Joe McCleary]

Well, and that happens with the golf and schools program. So the golf association has staff that goes out to local schools, introduces individuals to the game of golf, and then at the end of that, in the spring, they come out to the golf course, and they have a field day where they spend time. Mitch teaches a little bit about agronomy. They get to hit balls on the golf course instead of hitting modified golf balls in the gym. That's what I'm saying. I think this is not only community asset, not only laboratory, but it's a sphere because we're balancing every aspect that we can to make it a community asset.

[Ryan Warner]

Well, sphere, is this an ecosphere, an ecosystem?

[Rebecca Huft]

Becky, this is definitely an ecosystem. Every space that we inhabit is an ecosystem. And our urban spaces have so much wildlife and potential. And I thinking about how we can make them better than they are and to maximize the spaces, because this is where animals and plants have to live. So let's make it the best it can be.

[Ryan Warner]

You know, Becky hinted earlier that she had some skepticism herself. As someone who is primarily concerned with plants and the animals, the fauna that feast on the flora, do you get similar resistance or skepticism when you talk to other courses?

[Mitch Savage]

I have a good story I could share, too. One of my favorite memories from this summer so far is one of the bird watchers who came out. It was her first time ever being out here. She rode in the golf car with me. She said she lived just up the road and I could watch in real time. Over the couple hours of her bird watching, her idea and her opinion about the value of a golf course in her neighborhood had completely changed. I caught her. I don't know if she intended for me to hear her or not, but at one point towards the end of the tour, she sat back down in the golf cart and she just kind of shook her head and she said, wow, who would have ever thought?

[Ryan Warner]

Now if I'm playing golf here and my ball lands where we're standing, it's not going to have been a good day for my game.

[Rebecca Huft]

No.

[Ryan Warner]

Is it going to have been a bad day for the plants that are trammeled on?

[Rebecca Huft]

No. The amount of trampling that happens when someone comes out to find a ball. If this is good habitat, you're not going to damage it.

[Ryan Warner]

But what if it's a really bad golfer? Really bad golfers.

[Rebecca Huft]

I still think these plants are robust. These plants deal with drought. They deal with grazing, you know, not here, but historically. Right. They've evolved to deal with all sorts of things. They can deal with some people walking over them.

[Ryan Warner]

Do golfers care about this? Do they notice it?

[Rebecca Huft]

We get stopped a lot when we're working out here and people ask us questions and they want to know what we're doing. They just don't know. Right. And they ask us if we're studying birds. What are we doing? And when we talk about how we're studying plants and the insects that are here, we've only received positive feedback. And people are so excited to learn that that's what's happening here at the golf course they're playing on.

[Ryan Warner]

And, you know, I think about my dad, who's just as avid a golfer as you can be. What he fundamentally loves about the game, besides I think its ethics, is the outdoors nature of it. And so the Venn diagram of golfers and people who love the environment, that strikes me as, you know, close to a perfect circle. Do you think that's true, Mitch?

[Mitch Savage]

Oh, absolutely. I've seen the same thing, too. It's all been positive. And then moving forward, my role or my next duties will be to work with my staff and make sure we start to put more signage out here so that it's visible for the golfers if they're going by or happen if they need to come out here. We started to put almost like you'd

[Ryan Warner]

see at the Botana cartons.

[Mitch Savage]

Exactly, exactly. And we have some of that around our clubhouse because we've been converting to native and adapted species around our clubhouse. So we have signs pointing out the partnership between us and the Botanic Gardens. But now it's time to start showing this off more, as well as we start to establish some of these areas that we've been working on for a few years, just to let people know what's going on.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay. It's hot as heck. Can we wrap this up? You have anything else?

[Joe McCleary]

I've got one of them.

[Ryan Warner]

One other comment. I'm sweating. So are you.

[Joe McCleary]

Oh, no. So am I. So I had the opportunity to attend two professional meetings when they were in Denver a couple years ago. Becky was an excellent host. So I went to the American Public Gardens meeting and the Restoration Ecology meeting, and on my badge it said Colorado Golf Association. So people wanted to know why I was there, why are you here? Talk about this project and what we were doing. And it was amazing. Becky had presentations there. I sat in the audience. I could answer questions. And really, that's the kind of thing we need to get out and share the message about what we're doing. And then I think we will go ahead and build a network that will be unbelievable in the future.

[Ryan Warner]

And you are building a network that has not traditionally been one.

[Joe McCleary]

That's correct.

[Ryan Warner]

These are communities, perhaps, that did not talk well.

[Joe McCleary]

And I think that's right. I mean, Becky, she was hesitant to come out to the golf course. But once we drove around the golf course, we did our dog and pony show and showed her the sights. And the whole thing, the whole conversation changed. And we were under a tree, a ponderosa pine, and we were having the final part of the conversation, and a red tailed hawk landed above us. It was a sign.

[Ryan Warner]

Well, thanks for changing my perspective, too. I appreciate the time. Shall we get into the shade?

[Mitch Savage]

Sounds good.

[Ryan Warner]

Joe McCleary and Mitch Savage of the Colorado Golf association, along with Rebecca Huft of Denver Botanic Gardens, we stood near hole 15 at common ground Golf Course in Aurora. And no, dad, I'm still not interested in playing. Coming up, why they've been trembling and crembling. This is Colorado Matters from CPR News. It's Colorado Matters from CPR News. I'm Ryan Warner. Now to a town where taps risked running dry, a function of drought and infrastructure issues. Kremmling sits about halfway between Silverthorne and Steamboat Springs. CPR's Ishan Thakor visited, then chatted with our colleague Matteo Schimfield.

[Mitch Savage]

Let's start with what you actually saw while you were in Kremmling. You got a tour from the town manager, Jen McPherson.

[Ishan Thakor]

Yeah, we started in her office, which I'll note has a giant map of the town's water supply. So in the winter, she used to have that map blocking her window. It was like Kremmling's water was literally her whole view. But from there, she drove me and our photographer up to the reservoirs that supply the town.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

Do you have enough legroom back there?

[Mitch Savage]

What did you guys find while you were up there?

[Ishan Thakor]

So the reservoir she took us to, they are super. Super.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

That ditch is one of the feeder ditches for Jones 2. That is Jones 2 right there.

[Joe McCleary]

Oh, wow.

[Ishan Thakor]

So they've known since last winter that things were going to be bad. You know, there just wasn't enough snow. And then whatever there was actually melted really early and really fast. And then one of the reservoirs actually hit deadpool and kept dropping. And that means that it is too low for them to pull any water out of. So they tried to dig out some of the ditches that feed into that reservoir to get a little more to trickle downhill. But that failed. So beginning in late winter, you know, the town had just a single reservoir that supplied all their municipal water.

[Mitch Savage]

Okay. Scary reality for folks in Kremmling, which is at the headwaters of the state's water supply. It actually sits next to the Colorado River. But based on what you've been telling

[Emily Scott Robinson]

us, that doesn't solve your problems.

[Ishan Thakor]

Not exactly. It does have a backup pump supply right on the Colorado River. They haven't had to use that in years, but they discovered this year that system was partly buried under sand and basically broken. And Kremling and a lot of other water users upstream, you know, they have this one other overarching problem, and it's that their water rights are what's called junior. Basically, they are in the back of the line to get water.

[Mitch Savage]

Okay, Colorado water rights, let's get into it. Who are they in line behind?

[Ishan Thakor]

So it's mostly agricultural users, you know, farmers and ranchers downstream. Down in the Grand Valley area near Grand Junction, they have what are known as senior water rights. You know, some of these stretch back into the 1800s. And this is part of the extremely wonky and complicated water loss system that we have in Colorado, basically. You know, in a nutshell, if there's not enough water left over after those users have gotten their share, Kremmling and hundreds of other upstream communities, they can be out of luck. They are not the only town that are in this situation. In general, a lot of the ag rights were established before those upstream towns and users really started growing. And as a result, they have a lower claim to that water.

[Mitch Savage]

So what is Kremmling doing about all this? I assume the taps have not actually turned off.

[Ishan Thakor]

Yes, this is actually a success story for the town. So first off, residents have done a lot to conserve. You know, the town went on really strict water restrictions in March, and as a result, they were able to cut their daily consumption by about 45%.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

Wow.

[Ishan Thakor]

Yeah, that is a lot better than us here on the Front Range. But an even bigger thing is that a lot of farmers and ranchers throughout the state have been making some big sacrifices. Those downstream users I was just talking about, they agreed to not use all of their water so far this year. They left fields fallow, they switched crops, and that allowed a lot of the other water users upstream to keep diverting water for their own purposes. There was also a rancher right up near Kremmling who dried up a hay field to send more water to the town. Jim Debell is the ranch manager there.

[Mitch Savage]

You know, we're proud to be part of the community, you know, trying to help each other, take care of each other and work together between the municipalities

[Joe McCleary]

and the ranchers, keep everybody going forward.

[Ishan Thakor]

And that's also what I hear is going to be the bigger picture story coming out of this drought. Water users this year, you know, they had to cooperate in ways that are fairly unprecedented. Since There just wasn't enough water to go around.

[Mitch Savage]

Another town in Colorado that's also in a water crisis is La Vida in southern Colorado.

[Joe McCleary]

You found that the story of that

[Mitch Savage]

town and Kremmling are being repeated all across the West.

[Ishan Thakor]

Yeah. You know, this is not just an isolated incident. In Arizona, the small town of Kearney came close to running out of water. In Utah, at least three towns actually ran out of drinking water. Lindsey Defrates, she's the deputy comms director for the Colorado River District and they advocate for Western Slope water users. She was pretty blunt when I asked her about how bad it's gotten.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

This year has stripped away a lot of our assumptions that it'll be okay. You know, we've come right up to the edge of it's not going to be okay.

[Ishan Thakor]

The scary thing is a lot of the things that got Kremling in some of these upstream towns and communities through this crisis, they're not permanent solutions. We don't get a really good snowpack this year that fills up the reservoirs, that raises the river levels next year. The choices that some places are going to have to make could be even worse. But to end on a happy, optimistic note here, for Kremmling, at least they are in the process of fixing that pump, you know, their backup water supply from the Colorado river. That's going to greatly help them shore up their supplies for future bad years.

[Ryan Warner]

CPR's Ishan Thakor speaking with Matteo Schimf of Colorado today. Ishan's coverage and our sustainable golf story are part of the new series Water Pressure. It continues at cpr.org and Colorado Matters continues in the next half hour with an ode to Appalachia written in the Rockies. Ryan Warn, I'm Ryan Warner. This is CPR News and krcc. This is Colorado Matters From CPR News, I'm Ryan Warner. Country folk musician Emily Scott Robinson makes beautiful music for hard times. The Uray singer songwriter just released Appalachia, a nod to her birthplace. The album opens with Hymn for the Unholy.

[Emily Scott Robinson (singing)]

In the quiet of the new year we will let our old dreams go and when the spring comes, if we're ready, we can plant new ones to

[Ishan Thakor]

grow

[Emily Scott Robinson (singing)]

but in the silence of this ending we will gather in the snow and it's okay for tonight, dear, there are things you do not know.

[Ryan Warner]

Robinson moved to Colorado for social work but found her calling as an artist. She says they're both healing professions. And Emily, welcome back to the show.

[Emily Scott Robinson (singing)]

Thank you.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

It is so lovely to be here with you today. Ryan thank you so much for having me on Colorado Matters.

[Ryan Warner]

Yeah, it's so lovely to have heard that track. Were you super churchy growing up?

[Rebecca Huft]

Yes.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

And what's funny is most people I knew who grew up in the south, church was just part of all of our childhoods. And it was a little bit of, like, the air we breathed and the water we swam in. And so I grew up in the Presbyterian Church, so it wasn't super intense religious background, but it was such a big part of my life. And so I have written throughout my catalog of songwriting. I've used a lot of that language and symbology, and I've used religion as something to kind of push against and work with as an adult now who's no longer a religious person or no longer in the church. But it was just a big part of my childhood.

[Ryan Warner]

You're not in the church. Is the church in you?

[Emily Scott Robinson]

Totally.

[Ryan Warner]

Yeah.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

Yeah, yeah. And I think it's funny. It was really interesting to move to Colorado and be in a culture that wasn't so steeped in Christianity. When I was growing up in North Carolina, when you moved to a new neighborhood, the neighbors would bring you banana bread or cookies, or they'd bring something over as a housewarming gift, and then they'd say, have you found a church home yet? And that is not something that's ever happened to me in Colorado. But I think that the culture out here is more that nature is church for people, community is church for people. And I think it's just really interesting to see how spirituality is such a big part of life and culture here in Colorado and the spirituality of being outside and being in the mountains. But the religious overtones are not as strong here.

[Ryan Warner]

I'm so glad you mentioned this, because when I moved to Iowa, I had people knocking on my door asking about my religious affiliation. And it hasn't happened in Colorado, which I suppose isn't to say that it couldn't, but just that it hasn't. I understand that writing that song was healing for you personally. So tell us about writing Hymn for the Unholy.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

I wrote this song on New Year's Eve in 2021, going into the next year, 2022, and in the fall of 2021, I both released my last full length album, American Siren. So I was releasing a new album and I was going through a separation and divorce, the end of my first marriage at the Ex. So it was a very intense period for me.

[Ryan Warner]

Roller coaster, huh?

[Emily Scott Robinson]

Such a roller coaster. And I was also going on tour in a lot of the same places and venues around the country where my ex husband had been with me previously. And although we had a generous and kind and respectful parting of ways, it was still just a period of grief and change and loss in a sense for me, a personal sense of failure and change of plans. And I was invited to a guest ranch in the West Elk Mountains of Colorado, sort of near Peonia. And I was brought in by this family who was having a lovely family Christmas vacation in the mountains. And I was brought in to do a songwriting workshop with them and play a private concert. And then I got snowed in. And the ranch was deep in the mountains and inside the boundary of National Forest. And because it was around New Year's National Forest crews were not out there plowing the roads or making sure it was accessible. And I had made the mistake. I hadn't put the winter tires on my car yet. So I got stuck there. I got snowed in. And the family said, well, why don't you just stay? There were all these lovely little cabins. And they said, please just stay and hang out and turn this into a songwriting retreat if you want. And so I did. And I stayed actually through New Year's Eve. And they were so kind. And it was this space and time where I felt like everything in the outside world, all the stresses lifted for a moment.

[Ryan Warner]

Yes, I love that kind of stranded.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

Oh, exactly. Oh my gosh. That kind of stranded, by the way, also just sounds like a title for a song.

[Ryan Warner]

If you use that, you pay me, Emily.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

I will, I will. You get 50% already off the top. That's the natural way. And. And so I was that kind of stranded. And it was actually incredibly beautiful. And I was with people who didn't really know anything about my life. And they were so kind and generous to me. And I stayed up late on New Year's Eve after we'd had dinner. And it was snowing and beautiful and there was a bonfire outside. And I just. This song him for the Unholy just started to pour out of me.

[Emily Scott Robinson (singing)]

Because we are standing on a mystery we are spinning through the sky like the ones who came before us into the wilderness we fly there's so much we have no hand in but look how hard we try I think the gods are laughing with us I think the stars are standing by. Cuz I've worn diamonds to the party I've worn bard, I've worn blue and I've done every single goddamn thing I swore I'd never do. Here's a hymn for the Unholy for the savage and the true. You've only got one life, dear. Heed the voice that calls to you.

[Ryan Warner]

You used the word failure, I think, in association with. With the separation, the divorce. Is there some way that you see the separation as a success now?

[Emily Scott Robinson]

Absolutely. And I think that it takes a lot of courage to walk away from something that's not working for both people. I don't need to really get into the lengthy thoughts that I have about the legal institution of marriage and how that sometimes traps people in situations that just aren't of service to either of them. But all this is to say that my first husband and I met when we were pretty young, and we spent almost 10 years together, and we loved each other and we helped raise each other in many ways. And so I see that as a success. After we parted ways and we both started to move on with our lives and met new partners, we were able to say to each other, thank you for those years. Thank you for that journey. And, you know, I see him as part of my family and somebody who I will always love as a family member and such an important person in my life and a best friend. Not everybody has that experience with divorce, of course, and it wasn't all sunshine and roses. It wasn't easy, but I do see that as a success. I saw it actually as a tremendously courageous act. And as I was writing that song, him for the Unholy, I was finding that angle. I was beginning to see it in that way. I was able to start to find, through the writing, this perspective on it that had a lot more mercy and grace in it.

[Ryan Warner]

You made reference to the idea of nature being church for you now. And I wonder if you would contrast the healing properties, the spiritual properties of the Rockies to the Appalachians in your native North Carolina.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

Wow. So when I think about the Rockies versus the Appalachian Mountains, which were the first mountains that I knew, the Rockies have such intensity. And I joke, but it's not really a joke that the Rocky Mountains don't care if you die in them or not. They're so dangerous in many ways. They're so intense. The weather patterns are so dangerous. You know, we're always experiencing rockfall and avalanche. And I believe Edward Abbey famously said that the San Juan Mountains where I live are mountains that are in a. In a rush to get back to the sea. They're always crumbling. There's such an intensity. Isn't that a great quote? There's so much uplift and sharpness and intensity in these mountains, and they're much younger mountains. They're more aggressive. When I think about these mountains, I think about the Rockies as mountains that are always putting you in your place. They're reminding you that you are small in a world that is so much bigger than you. And I don't mean that in a discouraging way. I think that one of the fundamental ideas behind religion or faith traditions is to remind humans that we are small and we are part of a great mystery, and that the world does not revolve around us individually, but that we're part of something bigger. And I think that the Rocky Mountains remind us of that, that every time we're outside. And that's why I love that. I love feeling small in comparison to something that's so much bigger than me. It's my favorite feeling, actually. And I feel that way sometimes when I'm in a song, when I'm experiencing a song or writing a song, I feel that I'm just transmitting something that's much bigger than me. The Appalachian Mountains have a softer and gentler quality of healing and wisdom and quiet and solace. It's not that you can't get lost and injured in the Appalachian, you know, speak to anybody who's ever hiked the Appalachian Trail, but those mountains have a more healing property and a gentler quality, one that feels a little more motherly or nurturing than the Rocky Mountains.

[Ryan Warner]

Why don't we hear the title track to Appalachia?

[Emily Scott Robinson (singing)]

Oh, my heart For Appalachia oh, my heart for these blue hills oh, my heart forever captured beating still Many nights I lay here sleepless Many nights I watch the stars Many nights I make my way home from afar. Oh, my heart swept down the river and though it all be washed away it's not the first time I've had nothing or knelt to pray. My people came from pain and famine A hundred days on a dark sea. You think I'd let some wind and water tear the roots from me?

[Ryan Warner]

There are aspects of that song that feel rooted in something really old.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

Absolutely. And one of the reasons this particular song sounds a little older is that it's in a modal tuning. So it's just. It's a Celtic feel to it. Yes. And there is an ancestral lineage between Celtic music and the people who found their way to the Appalachian Mountains. People from Ireland and Scotland were finding their way to the mountains of western North Carolina. Those were the places that looked the most like home.

[Emily Scott Robinson (singing)]

Yeah.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

If you were from the Scottish Highlands or if you were from Ireland. And so green and rolling hills and rivers and creeks and waterfalls. And so I found that just the simple guitar tuning, which eliminates the third. This particular song is an E. So it's just open tuning with the 1 and the 5. Sorry for the nerdy music theory. No, no, no.

[Ryan Warner]

I think it's so fun. It's over. I will just plainly admit it's over my head, but it will not be for some folks.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

Fabulous. Okay. That makes me happy. So the tuning is. It's an open tuning and it's modal. So it's just the one and the five. And that's an old feeling. We recognize that in Celtic music. These drone sounding songs, these stringed instruments with a drone string where the root, the tonic, is always in the background, pulling us back to the center. And that's what I drew on for quite a few of these songs I wrote in this tuning, which gives it an old feel. Even if you can't name why it gives you that old feeling, but it feels ancient.

[Ryan Warner]

Well, Appalachia is also a nod to the resilience you saw after Hurricane Helene in 2024. How is that to watch from afar, to see what was going on in your native North Carolina, and are your people okay?

[Emily Scott Robinson]

My people are okay now. And it was really sad and scary. And also I watched with quite a bit of wonder. I had just been in Brevard, North Carolina, which is one of the places that got hit the hardest, that area. And I had just been there for a songwriting retreat. And a week later, Hurricane Helene hit, and I heard that it was hitting, and then there was almost a news blackout for about 24 hours, which scared me and made me feel that it was far worse than anybody knew because everybody had lost Internet and cell service. And so there wasn't a lot of news coming out about how much damage there was or fatalities or injuries. And once people got news crews in there and once people got cell service back, we started to find out how badly it had hit North Carolina. And it's just that the flooding happened so quickly. And it's a part of the state where there's a lot of rainfall already. And so rivers just rose so dangerously fast that a lot of people's homes were swept away and neighborhoods and downtowns were just completely destroyed and flooded. The thing that I took away from all of this, it was unprecedented and very, very damaging and bad. But all my friends said to me, you wouldn't believe how everyone is showing up for each other. People are rescuing strangers, People are helping their communities. They're out in the streets they're cleaning up debris. They're taking people in. They're driving from all over the state to bring suppl supplies and aid. And people said to me, I've never felt so close to my community. I've never felt so much faith in the people around me and in humanity as I do now. And what they said was, I never want to forget how this feels and I don't want to go back to how it felt before. So it changed the way people were showing up for each other. In a time that feels very divided politically and very charged and very intense, it didn't matter who you were or who you voted for. People were showing up for each other. They were saving each other and helping one another. And that made me so proud. It was so moving to me. And it's the kind of thing that restores your faith in humanity when you see it is the way that people show up to help each other.

[Emily Scott Robinson (singing)]

Friend, come inside for a cup of coffee Come inside for a drop in. Come inside let me feed you Rest your weary head.

[Ryan Warner]

Emily Scott Robinson of Ouray is our guest and she has witnessed community resilience once again in the face of the nearby Gold Mountain fire. It is mostly contained and there are no longer available evacuations. After a break, she raises a glass to a Colorado bar from a bygone era. This is Colorado Matters from CPR News. It's Colorado Matters from CPR News. I'm Ryan Warner. There will never be another Dolly Parton, but I gotta tell you, Colorado's Emily Scott Robinson sure gives me Dolly vibes. The Western Slope singer songwriter has released Appalachia, her sixth studio album. You're based in Ouray, Colorado now. Telluride before that. Emily, that deep valley or canyon in Ouray, it feels like a hug when I visit, but I wonder if it ever becomes suffocating.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

I love that you asked that as I'm talking to you. I'm looking out my window right now at the canyon walls. I love the feeling of being embraced by the hug of the box canyon. It feels like we're nestled in here where we live. My fiance and I actually live in this really lovely neighborhood that is a neighborhood of affordable housing. Their homes that were built by a nonprofit called Rural Homes. They saw that Ouray was becoming a place that was really unaffordable and regular working class families couldn't buy houses here. So they built this neighborhood here of deed restricted affordable housing. And we were able to buy a little home. And so we're in a home on the river I get to look up at the canyon walls every day and I can look down the street and see Mount Abrams. That will never get old to me. I feel hugged by the canyon. And I also feel embraced by the community, by a community that cared enough to invest in affordable housing and allow us artists to buy a home here and to live here, that matters so much, it's changed my life.

[Ryan Warner]

Well, speaking of your connection to place, why don't we hear one of our favorite songs off the new album, Dirtbag Saloon? It's based on a bar in Paona.

[Rebecca Huft]

Yes.

[Ryan Warner]

Well, listen, and then I want to have you describe the watering hole for us.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

Okay?

[Emily Scott Robinson (singing)]

Linda's is open on Fridays and Christmas. She lives in the back. It's a cash only business. She charges for singles but pours you a double. Everyone drinks here and no one makes trouble we got minors and ranchers Rednecks and hippies Hotshots and cowboys Poets and lifties there's one thing that this whole damn bar can't agree on. We live here cause we don't like concrete or neon and if it ain't gone yet it's going soon get your last round in at the Dirt baby Bag Saloon the rich folks are squeezing us right out of room. If it ain't gone yet it's going soon

[Ryan Warner]

Hot shots and cowboys is such a great way to describe so many towns in Colorado. Is this your version of paved paradise?

[Emily Scott Robinson]

Oh, my gosh. I didn't even think about that until you said it. And it totally is. And I'm so honored by that association. 100%.

[Emily Scott Robinson (singing)]

Oh, good.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

This is exactly what it is.

[Ryan Warner]

Yeah. Are you afraid of losing something about Paeonia?

[Emily Scott Robinson]

Yes. I love Peonia so much as a town. And actually my fiance Colin works with the Paradise Theater in Paonia, and he's the person who took me to Linda's Bistro for the very first time. Linda's Bistro is. Is the bar in this song. It is a bistro. It does not serve food,

[Rebecca Huft]

but if

[Emily Scott Robinson]

you want to go to pay.

[Ryan Warner]

Oh my God. That's gotta be something they explain to customers every five minutes.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

It's so funny. But, you know, the thing about it is that most people don't know it exists until someone's brought you there because it is only open on Fridays. Linda lives in the back and she collects all these vintage clothes and all this old kind of Americana and collectibles. And the bar, Linda's is covered in antiques and western Americana and Victorian dolls. And the furniture is velvet parlor furniture. And there are Candles and hearts everywhere. It's so lovely. And there's an old opera piano in there that's sounds older than it probably is. You know, it's. It's really clunky and. And Linda runs the place and Linda's ladies, Linda's girls work there. And it's a cash only bar. And it's one of those places that if you know, you know, and if you get an invite there, you're cool. And Peonia is one of those towns that feel like one of the last Colorado towns that can sustain a bar like that. And it's incredible. I mean, there are gunshot holes in the ceiling. It's an old saloon. It's pretty amazing.

[Emily Scott Robinson (singing)]

I wish we could live here in sweet Harmony. But they tore down the rentals and clear cut the trees to build their 10,000 square foot second homes of. But who's gonna serve them? There's champagne and snow and if it

[Ryan Warner]

ain't gone, you're signed on to oh Boy Records, the home of the late John Prine, poignant storyteller whose lyrics were both absurd, surreal, authentic. He didn't shy away from social or personal subject matters. If John Prine were still around, which song from the new album would you play for him?

[Emily Scott Robinson]

I would totally play Dirtbag Saloon for him. Because of all the songs that feel the most like a John Prine song on this album, I think that is probably the one. Because I listen to John's catalog and I call that my own education in songwriting. I didn't go to school for songwriting, I didn't go to Berkeley. But I think that listening to John's catalog is truly an education and songwriting and the. The artists that you love and you listen to all their music for years and years, they become your influences, of course. And so Dirtbag Saloon. And I also think that Bless it all is another song that reminds me of John because it's just this collection of little life things. They're deeply poignant.

[Ryan Warner]

My goodness. We're going to end with Bless It All. We began with Hymn for the Unholy. You really can't take the church out of the girl.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

That's correct.

[Ryan Warner]

All right, Emily, thank you so much for chatting with us.

[Emily Scott Robinson]

Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much for having me on the show. I love listening to Colorado Matters. I listen every day when I drive. And I'm so grateful to you for having me today.

[Emily Scott Robinson (singing)]

Bless the friend who has you over for cup of tea. Bless your mama's Corningware from 1983, Emily

[Ryan Warner]

Scott Robinson's album Appalachia is out now. We spoke in March. That is Colorado matters for today, with thanks to these fine folks.

[Ishan Thakor]

Jack Armstrong, Tyler Bender, Carl Bielek, Anthony

[Emily Scott Robinson]

Cotton, Pete Kramer, Andrea Dukakis, Zan Huckpechone,

[Ishan Thakor]

Matt Herz, Tom House, Pedro Lumbragno, Daniel

[Emily Scott Robinson]

Masher, Shane Rumsey, Haley Sanchez, Chandra.

[Rebecca Huft]

Thomas Whitfield.

[Ryan Warner]

And I'm Ryan Warner at CPR News and krcc.

[Emily Scott Robinson (singing)]

Bless the big oak table Pass down through the family Bless your nana's hook Set you.