July 15, 2026: 'All aboard' CoCo, the Colorado Connector; Sauna complex planned for central Denver

Summary

Colorado Matters – July 15, 2026

Episode Summary: “'All aboard' CoCo, the Colorado Connector; Sauna complex planned for central Denver”

Overview

This episode explores the future of Colorado’s transportation and wellness infrastructure, highlighting the ambitious Colorado Connector (CoCo) passenger rail project, a planned civic bathhouse in Denver, community resilience in the face of wildfire, the realities of Arctic science logistics, and the hidden lives of urban bats. Hosted by Ryan Warner and Chandra Thomas Whitfield, the episode features a lineup of experts, community members, and on-the-ground reporters, providing insight into Colorado’s evolving landscape and the people shaping its future.

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The Colorado Connector (CoCo) – Front Range Passenger Rail Project

Main Guests:

• Ryan Warner (Host)
• Sal Pace (General Manager, Front Range Passenger Rail District and former state lawmaker)

Key Discussion Points:

• CoCo Vision and Timeline

  • Passenger rail service planned between Denver and Fort Collins by 2029, with eventual expansion south to Trinidad and connections up to Cheyenne, WY. ([01:53])
  • “We’re calling this our starter service from Denver through Boulder and Broomfield and communities in between… all the way up to Fort Collins. That’s by 2029.” – Sal Pace [01:53]

• Expansion & Multistate Collaboration

  • Long-term plans include service to Littleton, Pueblo, Colorado Springs, and Trinidad, with collaboration from New Mexico and Wyoming. ([02:22])

• Branding & Experience

  • CoCo’s branding features blue and orange colors (echoing the Broncos) and a fox mascot “to outfox I-25 traffic.” ([00:57], [01:25])
  • “I imagine personally hopping on CoCo from Pueblo… looking out the windows at another pile-up on I-25 as I’m on my Wi-Fi, feet up, casually going to Denver instead of stressing out another ride on I-25.” – Sal Pace [01:25]

• Station Plans and Connectivity

  • Focus on “anchors, not islands”—partnering with local municipalities to ensure walkability, bikeability, and comprehensive last-mile connectivity ([00:12], [03:47])
  • $1.5 billion projected for connectivity improvements over 25 years. ([03:47])

• Funding and Voter Approval

  • Proposal for new funding via a 0.333% sales tax on communities along the rail line; upcoming vote on ballot measure referral ([08:50])
  • “Only the communities where there are contemplated permanent stations… if you don’t live near a station, you’re not voting on it.” – Sal Pace [09:19]

• Public Support

  • Strong public backing (“2 to 1 majority at this point say they’re ready to vote for a revenue stream to fund this service”). ([05:00])
  • Outreach includes both urban and rural communities as well as African American communities. ([05:31])

• Infrastructure Partnerships & Eminent Domain

  • Utilizes existing freight rail corridors (BNSF and Union Pacific), minimizing need for eminent domain and accelerating delivery timetable ([05:57])
  • “No eminent domain, no condemnation that’s needed. It also means we have a faster delivery timeline.” – Sal Pace [05:57]
  • Stations’ land acquisition is up to local governments; eminent domain may be possible for those. ([06:41])

• Passenger Experience and Fares

  • Fare policy in development; goal is affordability, similar to RTD and bus fares ([07:49])
  • On-time performance incentivized for BNSF via higher payments ([06:59], [07:36])

Notable Quotes

• “Anchors over islands.” – Ryan Warner [04:33]
• “Just like Big Bird? We don’t tell you what Coco is. That’s up to you to determine.” – Sal Pace on CoCo's gender/persona [04:36]

Memorable Moment:

• The fox mascot and the idea of “outfoxing” I-25’s notorious traffic jams create a playful vision of commuter relief.

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Mile High City Gets (Yet) Another Marker

Segment Lead:

• Ryan Warner, Sandy Botoulga (Denverite), Dr. Jay Lemry

Key Points:

• Surveyors have designated the 17th step of the Colorado State Capitol as the new, most accurate “Mile High” marker, due to improved measurement technology and changing sea levels. ([10:01], [10:14])
• “Now we have more precise measuring technology and there’s also physical changes like rising sea level. That’s why the mile marker is shifting.” – Sandy Botoulga [10:27]
• The new spot is marked with a Sharpie until an official plaque can be installed. ([12:01])

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Wellness & Third Spaces: COBA Bathhouse in Denver

Main Guests:

• Adam Lerner (former museum director, COBA Bathhouse lead)

Key Discussion Points:

• Vision and Philosophy

  • Adam Lerner draws parallels between art museums and bathhouses as “hubs” for community and civic energy: “A way of creating a hub of community where people come together and feel something together.” [13:56]
  • Focus on “weak ties” and the benefits of third spaces for community cohesion ([15:05])

• Facility Details

  • Planned for an acre downtown near the Santa Fe Arts District, the five-building complex will feature over 13 thermal amenities, including mineral pools, saunas, cold plunges, rain room, outdoor saunas, and a large garden. ([13:13], [13:51])

• Sauna Culture & Accessibility

  • Addresses the appropriation of ancient wellness practices: “What we need to do as moderns is find out all of the wisdom that we’ve jettisoned… it’s a return to something simple.” – Adam Lerner [16:58]
  • Intends COBA to be accessible, with costs similar to a casual dinner, unlike pricier spas. ([17:42])

• Energy & Water Sustainability

  • Geothermal energy and solar power will be used; water consumption equivalent to a small hotel—“about 5% of the water usage of your average golf course.” ([18:38], [19:05])
  • Environmental abatement complete; construction set for an 18-month build. ([19:18])

Memorable Moments & Quotes:

• “We’re so good at movement in this city… But when do we slow down?” – Adam Lerner [00:43], reiterated at [15:45]
• “Have you swallowed some Kool Aid?” – Ryan Warner [18:03]
  • “I have certainly swallowed a lot of Kool Aid, but the scientific evidence is really strong about the health benefits…” – Adam Lerner [18:03]

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Community Resilience: Wildfires & Recovery

Segments:

Glade Park Outdoor Movie Nights & Fundraising (Mesa County)

• Summer movie nights raise major funds for the local fire department. The event resumed weeks after the deadly Snyder Fire, which claimed the lives of three firefighters. ([20:35])
• “Since 1981, these movie nights have been the fire department’s largest fundraiser. Tens of thousands of dollars annually, at least half its budget.” – Stina Sieg [21:22]
• “We all watch each other’s back, no matter who they are.” – Fire Chief Bill Perrin [24:29]

Advice from Wildfire Survivor Andy O’Connor

• Andy O’Connor shares her experience with post-fire survival: insurance, finding housing, profound sense of loss, and the importance of accepting help ([25:28]–[32:07])
• “Say yes. You have to ask for help.” – Andy O’Connor [27:50]
• “Don’t say any sentence starting with the words, at least…Instead, say two things: I’m so sorry. How can I help?” – Andy O’Connor [28:52]
• Emotional milestone: “As I sat there on a rock in a meadow, I finally felt it. Real happiness coursing through me…That’s a big milestone.” [31:38]
• Key practical advice: hang on to insurance settlements for rebuilding; recovery takes about two years ([29:58], [30:55])

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Science on the Ice: Medicine and Research in Greenland

Guests:

• Dr. Jay Lemry (University of Colorado, Emergency Physician, Arctic research medical director)
• John Daly (CPR Health Reporter)

Key Discussion Points:

• Role & Logistics

  • Lemry oversees health operations at Summit Station, Greenland, supporting earth and atmospheric scientists. ([33:57])
  • Describes the remote, harsh environment and the significance of atmospheric science using ancient ice cores. ([34:44])

• Climate Change Firsthand

  • “Greenland…is a bellwether for climate change… and sea level rise.” – Dr. Jay Lemry [41:23]
  • Observations of shrinking glaciers and unprecedented meltwater pools ([39:43])

• Wildfire and Health in Colorado

  • Predicted impacts: more intense wildfires, degraded air quality, water stress, and increased public health challenges ([42:03])
  • “This is a threat to our state and we should treat it as such. It’s an important policy issue. We should bring this to all of our legislators.” – Dr. Jay Lemry [43:06]

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Colorado Wonders: Where Do Denver’s Bats Sleep?

Guests:

• Jenny Brundine (CPR Reporter)
• Nicole Schwartz (listener and “bat spotter”)
• Paige Singer (Conservation Ecologist)

Key Discussion Points:

• Behavior & Habitat

  • Urban bats roost “in attics, eaves, bridges, and small crevices” ([44:38])
  • At night: bats seen swooping for insects over Denver parks and rivers ([45:03])
  • Bats use echolocation; one bat can eat up to a thousand insects per hour ([45:38], [46:51])

• Conservation Status

  • Bats face threats from white nose syndrome, wind turbines, shrinking insect populations.
  • “Bats provide big benefits from eating crop destroying insects to pollinating plants. Not bad for a creature that spends its days upside down and its nights eating mosquitoes.” – Jenny Brundine [47:52]

• Community Science

  • Colorado Bat Watch public reporting helps researchers protect bats ([47:48])

Memorable Moment:

• “I have bad attention span.” – Ryan Warner
  “Did you say bat attention span?” – Nicole Schwartz [47:12]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Approx. Start | Key Content/Guests | |--------------------------------------------|:-------------:|----------------------------------------------| | CoCo Front Range Passenger Rail Project | 00:04 | Sal Pace, Ryan Warner | | Mile High Marker Survey | 10:01 | Sandy Botoulga, Dr. Jay Lemry | | COBA Bathhouse/Sauna Complex | 12:54 | Adam Lerner | | Glade Park Movie Night & Wildfire Resilience| 20:35 | Stina Sieg, Fire Chief Bill Perrin | | Wildfire Survivor Advice | 25:28 | Andy O’Connor | | Arctic Science Health, Greenland | 33:40 | Dr. Jay Lemry, John Daly | | Denver Urban Bats | 44:10 | Jenny Brundine, Nicole Schwartz, Paige Singer|

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Closing Thoughts

This episode offers a multifaceted look at change—physical, cultural, and environmental—in Colorado. From bold vision in public transit, to reimagined third spaces, to lessons from climate and fire, and curiosity about urban wildlife, it emphasizes community-driven solutions, resilience, and the importance of innovation rooted in inclusivity and science.

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For More Information/Action:

• Colorado Connector: [More at the district’s official site]
• COBA Bathhouse: [Learn about the project and manifesto online]
• Colorado Bat Watch: [Report roosts and get involved: cpr.org]
• Wildfire recovery resources: [State and county info]
• Public health and climate: [CU’s Climate and Health Program]

“You just gotta get curious. There's a lot out there.” – Jenny Brundine [48:14]

Transcript

[Ryan Warner]

All aboard Cocoa. Three years from now, the Colorado Connector should be barreling down the tracks without leaving you in the lurch.

[Sal Pace]

We're not just pulling into Fort Collins or Boulder without somewhere to go, but we are partnering with the local municipalities up and down the line to include walkability, bikeability, so that these stations aren't just islands.

[Ryan Warner]

Their anchors service will require a tax hike for communities along the line then. A man who led museums for most of his career now swears by saunas. He's developing a massive bathhouse in the heart of Denver.

[Adam Lerner]

We're so good at movement in this city. We're always running, we're doing yoga, we're doing all sorts of sports and activities. But when do we slow down?

[Ryan Warner]

It's Colorado Matters. From CPR News and krcc, I'm Ryan Warner. Front Range passenger rail could barrel down the tracks three years from now. That's what Sal Pace envisions. He's general manager of the project dubbed Coco. The Colorado Connector. This train to be now has branding blue and orange reminiscent of the Broncos and a fox mascot to out Fox I 25 traffic.

[Sal Pace]

I imagine personally hopping on Coco from Pueblo. And I live in Pueblo and looking out the windows at another pileup on i25 as I'm on my wi fi feet up, casually going to Denver instead of stressing out another ride on i25.

[Ryan Warner]

I asked Pace, former state lawmaker, about the initial service between Denver and Fort Collins.

[Sal Pace]

We're calling this our starter service from Denver through Boulder and Broomfield and communities in between all the way up to Fort Collins. That's by 2029, then within five years of potentially receiving new funding. So if we pass a ballot measure this year, be in 2032, we'd have service to all stations on the line, including places like Littleton and Pueblo and Colorado Springs and places in between.

[Ryan Warner]

Today, I think was the first time I'd heard Trinidad mentioned so that it might go almost to the New Mexico border.

[Sal Pace]

That's part of our long range mission. That's not within five years, but we are building a new station in Trinidad because they're on the southwest cheap line and they don't have a station on their line. They are in our district and they're part of our mission. In fact, New Mexico just passed a new rail plan that identifies connecting to the Colorado Connector and creating a Front Range line, New Mexico, Colorado, all the way up to Cheyenne.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay, so this is a multi state conversation in addition to being multi city, multi county.

[Sal Pace]

Yeah, that's part of our long Range plans. But we do have representation from New Mexico and Wyoming on our board already, and we're talking with the dots in those states as we speak.

[Ryan Warner]

DOT's Departments of Transportation. I am trying to imagine the experience in Denver. Would this come to Union Station?

[Sal Pace]

Yeah, this is going to come to Union Station, but we're also contemplating special event stops for both South Broadway and i25 and the new Summit soccer stadium there, but also Burnham Yard and the new Denver Broncos. We're already going to be driving right by those. We might as well have special event stops for those two stadiums.

[Ryan Warner]

Talk about Fort Collins, for instance, because, you know, I think the looming question for me is the last mile problem. This is the idea that you take transit and then you're kind of left in the lurch when you step off. How big last mile problem does this present?

[Sal Pace]

Well, it presents an opportunity as well if we do it right. And we have modeled out spending over $1.5 billion over the next 25 years to create connectivity from each of these stations that's cumulative across all of the stations. And we're working with the local municipalities and we have signed proclamations or resolutions with almost all of the municipalities with stations already. And it's focused on the first mile, last mile connectivity. We're not just pulling into Fort Collins or Boulder without somewhere to go, but we are partnering with the local municipalities up and down the line to include first mile, last mile connectivity, walkability, bikeability, et cetera. So that these stations aren't just islands, they're anchors.

[Ryan Warner]

Anchors over islands. Is Coco a she?

[Sal Pace]

You know, just like Big Bird? We don't tell you what Coco is. That's up to you to determine.

[Ryan Warner]

You are counting hoping on further voter approval for this. What do your surveys of the market, of the customer base tell you about one, support and two, who would use this?

[Sal Pace]

Yeah. What I can tell you is overwhelmingly Coloradans think that this is a service that the state should have. And they think it will benefit the state because it, it gets cars off the road, which helps everybody. It helps clean up the air. That helps everybody. But beyond that, a strong majority by 2 to 1 majority at this point say they're ready to vote for a revenue stream to fund this service as well. And who would use this? Most Coloradans say they would use it at some point. Some Coloradans say they'd use it weekly or daily.

[Ryan Warner]

As I was mingling at this unveiling, I talked to a few consultants that, that you've hired to reach various communities. One, who is speaking to African American communities about the potential here. Another more conservative consultant whose job is rural outreach and who said the reason I back this project is because it does not rely on eminent domain.

[Sal Pace]

Yeah, well, I mean, we have a pragmatic approach to delivery, which means we're working with the private freight railroad industry to deliver this service. We are going to be leasing their tracks and their right of way to deliver service. There's no eminent domain, no condemnation that's needed. It also means we have a faster delivery timeline. That three year and five year timeline that I gave you earlier is because of our partnership with the freight railroads. We've already modeled out all of the potential capital needs with the freight railroad industry as partners. Partners. Having this pragmatic approach means. Yeah, there's no eminent domain, there's no condemnation, and it means quicker delivery service as well.

[Ryan Warner]

Can you say that for sure about the stations, that there won't be eminent domain?

[Sal Pace]

The stations are going to be the responsibility of local municipalities. There could be some need for eminent domain or condemnation for those stations.

[Ryan Warner]

What is the chance that I'm riding cocoa and. And we have to stop for freight rail.

[Sal Pace]

So the term sheet that we signed with the BNSF railway for the starter service, we've never had something like this in the history of the United states. They receive 50% greater rail access payment annually for meeting on time service delivery metrics. So they make more the more that the line is delivering on time for the passengers. So they become a partner in delivering service faster.

[Ryan Warner]

Interesting. You obviously pay something to these operators and the more they hold up their end of the bargain to keep things running smoothly, the more they earn.

[Sal Pace]

Exactly. And 50% more potential payment to BNSF Railway in our first term sheet for meeting on time metrics for the passenger service.

[Ryan Warner]

Do you have fares set yet?

[Sal Pace]

We don't have fares set. We do have a fare policy that we'll be rolling out in our delivery plan and it's based on making the train affordable for everyone to ride. We're contemplating within the RTD region being comparable to RTD fares. We also want to be equivalent or comparable to bus service as well. So we're talking about affordable service for this Citizens of Colorado.

[Ryan Warner]

What would you tell people who conflate Front Range rail and rtd? And you know, people are frustrated with RTD for a variety of reasons.

[Sal Pace]

Yeah, but we're also delivering a completely different model. We have modeled out the entire 190 mile corridor with Union Pacific and BNSF Railway at the table. We have a delivery plan that has been modeled for years. When Fast tracks was passed 20 years ago, that's when they started the negotiations with the freight railroads. We've already been doing it.

[Ryan Warner]

What's the stickiest wicket to getting this done?

[Sal Pace]

The most important piece is we have to find a permanent funding stream, the most likely source for that. And we're going to be taking a vote whether or not to refer a ballot measure as a board on August 28th and refer a ballot measure that could potentially, potentially generate a 0.333 sales tax, a 1/3 of a penny on a dollar purchase in order to fund

[Ryan Warner]

this ballot measure statewide or only for those counties touched or communities touched, only

[Sal Pace]

the communities where there are contemplated permanent stations for Colorado Connector. And so if you don't live near a station, you're not voting on it.

[Ryan Warner]

Hey, thanks for chatting with me.

[Sal Pace]

Yeah, thanks, Fran. Thanks for covering this.

[Ryan Warner]

Sal Pace of Pueblo leads the Front Range Passenger rail District. Branding for Coco the Colorado Connector includes a fox meant to outfox i25 traffic. I met him at the unveiling party.

[Sal Pace]

This train is a clean train. You know, that's train.

[Jenny Brundine]

This train is a clean train.

[Ryan Warner]

I said this train just in time for Colorado's 150th birthday, surveyors have determined the 17th step of the state capitol is Denver's newest mile high marker.

[Sandy Botoulga]

So there are three previous markers. They were on the 15th, 18th and the 13th, respectively, but they're not technically wrong.

[Ryan Warner]

Denverite Sandy Botoulga was there for the big reveal.

[Sandy Botoulga]

Now we have more precise measuring technology and there's also physical changes like rising sea level. That's why the mile marker is shifting,

[Sal Pace]

because it should be 2ft above the

[Dr. Jay Lemry]

current mark, about 2.2ft.

[Sandy Botoulga]

Brian Shaw, who is leading this project, he is the Rocky Mountain regional advisor for the National Geodetic Survey. He said he does not anticipate it moving for a long time.

[Sal Pace]

When you're doing survey measurements using leveling, you can determine height differences to the millimeter.

[Sandy Botoulga]

Brian had already set up a gps. Friday was the day where they were just making it super, super accurate. And it took a couple of hours because the crew was taking a bunch of small measurements that were tedious.

[Adam Lerner]

I got close.

[Sandy Botoulga]

I got 21044 because it's all relative to each other. These measurements.

[Ryan Warner]

That 1929 mark is the highest one.

[Adam Lerner]

So we know its height relative to where we started this morning and we know we need to drop down a

[Ryan Warner]

little bit to where the new mile will be.

[Sandy Botoulga]

We were all holding our breath. It was like, oh, My gosh. We're finally going to know exactly where the point is.

[Adam Lerner]

A mile which is 1,609.354.

[Sal Pace]

No, 344.

[Sandy Botoulga]

Steve Breidenbach. He is basically a celebrity of leveling and using this equipment. And Steve is doing the math by hand in a notebook filled with a bunch of numbers. And everybody was waiting on him to figure it out. And then Steve gets to his final number.

[Adam Lerner]

I get 0.22094, the official plaque or

[Sandy Botoulga]

whatever the government decides to put to commemorate the mile high marker that's not being put in until next year. So what the scientists did was they marked the spot with a Sharpie and that's the new mile marker for now.

[Ryan Warner]

A celebrity of leveling. Where else will you hear about someone like that but public radio? You heard Denverite Sandy Betulga there. We'll be right back to sweat it out. This is Colorado Matters from CPR News. It's Colorado Matters from CPR News. I'm Ryan Warner. He was a museum man through and through. Adam Lerner led Denver's contemporary art museum for years, a funky art space called the Lab. Before that, he left to run the Palm, Palm Springs Art Museum in Southern California. And Lerner is back in Colorado, but he has left the museum world for sauna. Hi, Adam.

[Adam Lerner]

Hi, Ryan.

[Ryan Warner]

Do museums and sauna culture have something in common?

[Adam Lerner]

At first it might not seem like they do, but I actually, I see the connection. I'm working on building a bathhouse in Denver, you know, a five building complex.

[Ryan Warner]

This is on an acre downtown.

[Adam Lerner]

Yeah, exactly. It's an acre of land adjacent to the Santa Fe arts district on 13th and Osage, next to the Japanese restaurant Domo. And I have a feeling that the bathhouse will have a very large civic impact. And really that's what interests me is, you know, when I was at the Museum of Contemporary Art, I love art, of course, and I love artists and I believe in the importance of it. But for me, art was essentially about creating, creating energy. And that's what interested me as a museum director. How to create a hub, how do I enrich civic life?

[Ryan Warner]

And how does schwitzing together create something similar?

[Adam Lerner]

Well, it really does. I mean, it's a way of creating a hub of community where people come together and feel something together. I mean, in many ways, it's a little bit like the ideal of what art museums strive for. They strive to be able to have people show up in one state of mind and leave it with another state of mind. And also, ideally, and feel more connected with each other. And that's the essence of a bathhouse, is it will have over 13 thermal amenities. So there'll be multiple, like mineral pools and saunas and cold plunges, heat slabs, rain room. There's outdoor saunas, 20,000 square feet of garden space for people to walk around in a campfire. It really is a civic place for people to gather and to converse. You don't have to talk to strangers if you don't want to. But there's something about sharing space with strangers that actually, scientists, they call it weak ties. And it has an incredible impact on our feelings of connectedness with others merely

[Ryan Warner]

being in the same room.

[Adam Lerner]

Yeah, it's like the barista that gives you coffee every day and the neighbor who talks to you about the weather. I mean, being in a shared space, sharing an experience with somebody, especially as you do that repeatedly, it creates a sense of belonging, a sense of, like, civic connectedness.

[Ryan Warner]

Do we not have these third spaces already in, I don't know, Botanic Gardens or in libraries? What's new here? I also just want to say Lake Steam on Colfax has been around for almost a century. I typed Sauna Denver into Google and got 22 hits on the first page alone.

[Adam Lerner]

Yeah, bathhouses are popping up all over the country now in these large format bathhouses. There's probably 40 cities in the United States that have bathhouses. You know, Denver, it's high time that we have one, too. And I think that we are an important part of that mix of what a city ought to have. When I was at the mca, it was so important to have a place that symbolized the creative growth of the city, you know, and it really was a symbol of the creative energy. And I feel like creating the bathhouse has a different impact on the city. I think it has an impact as a space for people to relax, for people to find time to decompress, calm their nervous systems. Yeah, like, we're so good at movement in this city. You know, we're always running, we're doing yoga, we're doing all sorts of sports and activities. But when do we slow down? And I really feel like that's something that we need now. And I'm really happy to be able to work with a team to provide that for the city.

[Ryan Warner]

You know, whether it's psilocybin or sauna, I'm mindful that ancient, often indigenous practices become enterprises for white people.

[Adam Lerner]

Yeah.

[Ryan Warner]

Does that apply here?

[Adam Lerner]

Yeah, of course it does. And you know what, though? What we need to do as Moderns is find out all of the wisdom that we've jettisoned and really figure out, like, what is the wisdom? That is basic, you know, how does nature help us live healthier, more balanced lives? How does water help us live more balanced lives? And that's what really this is. It's a return to something simple. And the great thing about a bathhouse is that unlike a spa, which will cost you a significant amount and maybe be a kind of treat that you do once a year, a bathhouse can cost you about as much as going out for a casual dinner or less.

[Ryan Warner]

The project you've joined, indeed, called COBA Bathhouse, you have a prototype in what looks like an Airstream at the moment. Online, you've published a manifesto. You call it that. And that word conjures a certain zealousness to me. Adam, have you swallowed some Kool Aid?

[Adam Lerner]

I have certainly swallowed a lot of Kool Aid, but the scientific evidence is really strong about the health benefits, you know, for stress reduction, for longevity, even trauma and depression, anxiety. But the feeling of feeling good is something that just gets you, grabs you.

[Ryan Warner]

I understand that the state believes in you as well to some extent. You've secured a grant related to geothermal potential. So let's talk about energy sourcing and water before we go.

[John Daly]

Sure.

[Adam Lerner]

We already drilled our first geothermal well and we have a very elaborate geothermal energy program in place, as well as solar energy. We don't get water from the ground, but we get energy. And our water usage is like a small sized hotel rather than a sort of big commercial production.

[Ryan Warner]

Interesting.

[Adam Lerner]

Yeah.

[Ryan Warner]

It's obviously tapping Denver Water as a customer.

[Adam Lerner]

Sure. We're about 5% of the water usage of your average golf course.

[Ryan Warner]

Yeah, you had that comparison at the ready, didn't you? What's the timeline briefly for copa?

[Adam Lerner]

Yeah, so we're done with our environmental abatement on the site. On the site. Hope to begin construction as soon as our demolition and permitting is done. And it's an 18 month build.

[Ryan Warner]

18 months. All right. Hey, museum man turned sauna spokesperson. Thanks for being with us, Adam.

[Adam Lerner]

Hey, thank you for having me.

[Ryan Warner]

Adam Lerner discussing saunas as third places. The former museum director is helping develop an acre sized bathhouse complex in central Denver called COBA and Colorado Matters continues in the next half hour with lessons learned by fire. I'm Ryan Warner, you're with CPR News and krcc. You're back with Colorado Matters from CPR News and krcc. I'm Ryan Warner. A beloved movie theater In Mesa county has a dirt floor and a sky for a ceiling. Outdoor movie nights have been a summer staple in glade park for 45 years. It's also the largest fundraiser for the local fire department. The movies recently resumed just weeks after the deadly Snyder Fire ignited. CPR's Western Slope. Reporter Stina Sieg takes us there.

[Stina Siegfried]

As the June evening starts to cool down, hundreds of people sit on lawn chairs and blankets in a large lot behind the Glade park fire department. They play bingo as they wait for Harrison Ford and a CGI dog to flash on the screen.

[Sal Pace]

Okay, somebody's gotta yell.

[Ryan Warner]

This one.

[Sal Pace]

Peyton Manning's number?

[Nicole Schwartz]

Yep.

[Sal Pace]

18i18.

[Stina Siegfried]

This is no drive in. Instead, it's like a giant community picnic with cornhole and Jenga and the movie the call of the wild. Once it gets dark enough at movies under the Stars, the family friendly films are free, but the food is for sale and it's popular.

[John Daly]

Say we have 400 people.

[Ryan Warner]

We probably grill 300 hamburgers all in three hours.

[Stina Siegfried]

Steve Flynn is flipping burgers and bratwursts in the back of an antique fire engine. He's a volunteer grillman and fireman. Everyone here is volunteering their time. Since 1981, these movie nights have been the fire department's largest fundraiser. Tens of thousands of dollars annually, at least half its budget. The department was one of the first on the scene after lightning sparked wildfires across the Colorado Utah border. It was the early morning hours of June 27. Fire Chief Bill Perrin remembers the awful wind well.

[Ryan Warner]

It was gusting 40 to 60 miles an hour.

[Stina Siegfried]

Perrin was one of nine local firefighters responding half his department.

[Ryan Warner]

And you could just watch the smoke boil in this huge column. And so that's a fearful sight to be standing that close. You know, they call it dragon slaying for a reason.

[Stina Siegfried]

That first day, the fire grew more than 28,000 acres and killed three federal firefighters. Two more were seriously hurt.

[Adam Lerner]

There's been a lot of tears shed in our department.

[Stina Siegfried]

There's also a lot of gratitude. Gratitude for all the firefighters who responded to the largest fire Glade park has ever seen. And gratitude for the surrounding community who keeps the department's vital fundraiser going.

[Sal Pace]

All right, four baked potatoes, guys.

[Stina Siegfried]

Back at movies under the stars, people line up for popcorn, soda and something called a Miller burger. A bun stuffed with a bratwurst and two beef patties. It's delicious, says Leo Moreno, but you

[Sal Pace]

need a shower pretty much after you finish it.

[Stina Siegfried]

He's got a baby in one arm and a box of burgers in the other. His two older kids sit on a blanket.

[Adam Lerner]

Actually, it's easier to come here than the movie theater.

[Sal Pace]

And my other kids, they can play

[Adam Lerner]

around so it's more convenient.

[Stina Siegfried]

Moreno's been coming for years and, like most of the crowd, drove up from the Grand Junction area. About half an hour of twists and turns. Nearby, Janice shepherd has a folding table setup so she can play dominoes with her friend. So I've been coming to the movie night since they used to have a white sheet up. Decades later, there's a real screen and better sound. But this has always been about more than just the movies. As the film starts up, there's this real sense of togetherness in the crowd. At their heart, these movie nights are about helping the firefighters who try to keep this corner of Colorado safe. When the movies return tonight, a moment of silence will be held for the three fallen firefighters. Volunteers will wear buttons with their faces. Fire Chief Bill Perrin never met them, but says all firefighters are connected.

[Ryan Warner]

We all watch each other's back, no matter who they are.

[Stina Siegfried]

Many people want to help his little department. Perrin says the best way to do that is to come to the movies.

[Ryan Warner]

It would mean a lot.

[Stina Siegfried]

Bring your own chair and a big appetite. All firefighters will eat for free. In Glade Park, I'm Stina Siegfried, CPR News.

[Ryan Warner]

Meanwhile, in southern Colorado, the Aspen Acres fire has claimed hundreds of homes. The giant blaze is roughly a third contained. Residents of Beulah were granted full access Tuesday to their charred community. When Coloradans lose everything to fire, I think of Andy o' Connor in Boulder. Her home burned down as a kid and then as an adult. The Four Mile Canyon fire struck in 2010. Over the years, O' Connor has shared lessons learned, and I thought we'd share one of those conversations today.

[Andy O'Connor]

Afterwards, there's the insurance rebuilding. If you're going to rebuild or not. It's a really disorienting time. And a lot of it, you actually learn to roll with, you know, you have a certain amount of control. But it really took me a year to feel like I had the process really moving forward. It takes that long to settle the insurance, figure out where you're going to. So it's a really all consuming process for many, many months after a disaster like this.

[Ryan Warner]

Well, let me focus in on one of those decisions. So where are you going to live?

[Andy O'Connor]

Well, first of all, if you have insurance, it's good to start working with your insurance company right away. It's part of your coverage to get a comparable dwelling. So sometimes people will think, well, we have to save money. So we have to go into something really small, and that's actually a separate part of your policy and that's covered by the insurance. So what you really want to do is get someplace that feels safe and comfortable. For myself, I stayed with a friend for a few days because I really wanted the company. And then I went into a small rental cottage.

[Ryan Warner]

Does it still occur to you, things that you lost?

[Andy O'Connor]

Yeah, absolutely. The other day, somebody was talking about graduate school because I went to graduate school here at CU in Boulder, and they were talking about their graduation pictures. And I got this very clear image of the beautiful box I had downstairs that had all the pictures of my graduation with my tassel and my hat and all of that. And I hadn't thought about that since the fire. I thought, oh, that's all gone.

[Ryan Warner]

Is there something you wish you'd have known or done shortly after the fire that you didn't and that you would encourage those who've perhaps lost their homes in this fire to think of or to do?

[Andy O'Connor]

I think one of the things is to really accept help from people, especially people who live in the mountains. We tend to be really self sufficient. We're hardy Colorado mountain people, and we're used to doing things on our own. And right after a fire, you're in such a state of shock and so many people are offering help that sometimes it feels overwhelming. And I know I had a tendency to say, no, no, I'll be fine. No, I'm okay. And it really took friends of mine to say, andy, you have to say, yes. You have to ask for help.

[Ryan Warner]

What kind of help?

[Andy O'Connor]

Help of food, clothing, temporary furniture, little things. I had people who cleaned out their junk drawers and gave me Ziploc bags that had pens and scissors and paper clips and things that you use every day because that kind of stuff is gone. Like, what is life without a junk drawer? So, you know, so just accepting help from people when they say, can I bring you food?

[Stina Siegfried]

Say, yes.

[Andy O'Connor]

You know, can I come over and just help you with paperwork? Can I make some phone calls for you? Yes. Would you like to go for a walk? Yes. You know, that kind of support instead of saying, no, no, I'm fine, I'm okay.

[Ryan Warner]

Let me turn the question of help around a little bit. What advice do you have for the rest of the people who haven't lost their homes, but are perhaps talking to people who have striking the right tone, asking the right questions, not being annoying or dismissive or retraumatizing?

[Andy O'Connor]

Right. One of the things that I think most people from the Four Mile Canyon fire experienced was people trying to comfort you but saying things that were inadvertently hurtful. So the advice I give to people who are trying to talk to someone who has lost everything in a fire is don't say any sentence starting with the words, at least. At least you have insurance. At least you all got out. At least you saved a few things, because that's not actually very helpful right after a fire, because the person is really experiencing what they have left lost, and they'll come to those conclusions on their own later. But what I tell people to do is to say two things. Say, I'm so sorry. How can I help?

[Ryan Warner]

Was there ever a point where you went on a buying spree that you'd lost so much you presumably had some kind of insurance settlement eventually and that you just went like Supermarket Sweep crazy?

[Nicole Schwartz]

No.

[Andy O'Connor]

No, because I'm rebuilding my home. And one of the things, as you know, and some people know, my house burned down when I was 12 years old. So I've been through this before. So I have the benefit of my mother's experience. And she said, honey, hang on to every penny for rebuilding your house, because what you think is a lot of money with a settlement goes very quickly if you're rebuilding or if you're going to buy something else. We fortunately had a lot of help from Boulder County. They brought in specialists to give workshops. One of the first things that people told us who had been through this before was that it's from start to Finish, it's about 22 months to get home. And you could actually feel the disappointment in the room when we heard that, because we all thought, oh, a year. It'll take a year. It's almost two years. And I think it's important for people who are going to support fire survivors and help them out know that this is a long haul for us. It really does take about two years to get home.

[Ryan Warner]

You've been keeping this blog, Burning down the House throughout this journey. I thought we might end on an excerpt from November of 2011. You write, I felt many things this year besides grief and loss and overwhelm. Gratitude, hope, optimism, compassion. But I must confess that real joy, real happiness has eluded me. I've been so afraid that I would never feel joy again. And. And as I sat there on a rock in a meadow, I finally felt it. Real happiness coursing through me. The kind of happiness that makes you laugh out loud, that cracks your face into a smile and makes you want to do a little dance. That's a big milestone.

[Andy O'Connor]

It was a huge milestone. Yeah. And I guess what I would say to other fire survivors is that milestone is waiting for you. And there are also many, many of us in the community who are close by who have been through this experience. You know, there are people who will say to you, I know how you feel, but in our case, we really do know how you feel. So if it helps to hear other people's experiences and you want to reach out, we're here for you.

[Ryan Warner]

I'll say that accompanying that post was a video, and it is a photo montage from the earliest days after the fire through the construction of your new home. And it's to the song smile, smile even though your heart is breaking.

[Andy O'Connor]

Yeah.

[Ryan Warner]

Thanks for being with us, Andy.

[Andy O'Connor]

Ryan, it's my pleasure.

[Ryan Warner]

Wildfire survivor and rebuilder Andy o' Connor of Boulder, there's one last piece of advice that she has shared with me I want to convey rather than ask a friend who's traumatized, how can I help? Maybe just do the thing. Give them the gift card, bring them the meal. Hand over the flowers.

[Sal Pace]

Smile though your heart is aching

[Andy O'Connor]

Smile

[Sal Pace]

even though it's breaking

[Nicole Schwartz]

when there are

[Sal Pace]

clouds in the sky, you get by.

[Ryan Warner]

This is Colorado Matters from CPR News.

[Sal Pace]

Through your fear and sorrow smile and maybe tomorrow you'll see the sun

[Nicole Schwartz]

comes shining through

[Sal Pace]

for you.

[Ryan Warner]

It's Colorado Matters from CPR News. I'm Ryan Warner, a Colorado physician who specializes in wilderness and climate medicine tended to scientists in Greenland. Once he got back, he spoke to cpr. Health reporter John Daly, University of Colorado

[Dr. Jay Lemry]

is the medical directors for the National Science Foundation's Arctic Research Program. And so we're up there supporting the scientists doing earth science work. They're doing amazing things with ice cores and neutrino observatory, and they basically have a science base on the top of the ice sheet called Summit Station. We have physicians up there, and part of our job was to just to make sure that we're providing a safe and healthy environment for the science to take place in a very remote and austere place.

[John Daly]

So then you're really there, if I get this correctly, as physicians rather than in some sort of scientific role.

[Dr. Jay Lemry]

We have CU physicians based there in the summer months, and I was there doing a health and safety tour, just looking at all the facilities and checking in on the health and wellness of the participants as well as our physicians up there on Summit Station. The facility is a very small science camp. There's probably a dozen different buildings and then small birthings that they have there for researchers. So many of them are in fish huts that you'd see on a frozen lake in Colorado in the winter. The work that they're doing up there is all Earth science, so lots of atmospheric science. It's actually an outstanding place to have an unadultered sample of the atmosphere in the Northern Hemisphere. There's no industrial processes around or anything like that. The ice cap there is two miles thick. And so a lot of our understanding of atmospheric science comes from the ice cores, which are almost like tree rings for atmosphere. And we can go back almost a million years looking at the actual atmosphere as it's been trapped and deposited in subsequent layers of ice and snow.

[John Daly]

What does it look like? You're just kind of like on a ice field. So for Coloradans might be like standing on a big field of ice near the top of a 14er?

[Dr. Jay Lemry]

Yeah, I think it's actually more like the eastern plains on a. On a very snowy day when the snow blunts the geography and you look and all you see is snow. And when I was there, it was cloudy, so it was layers of white and gray. Basically from the ground I was standing on to looking up at the sky and it was very difficult to distinguish the horizon and from that site, there's no other geographic features for hundreds of miles until you reach the coast of Greenland.

[John Daly]

And the scientists who are working there are. They're living in tents and cabins.

[Dr. Jay Lemry]

When they're there, they're not living in tents, they're living in fish huts. So kind of small hard shell birthings and buildings. And it's been. The base has been there since, you know, several decades. And so everything there has to be trekked in by a snowcat or a military plane.

[John Daly]

And so is there a physician or other medical provider there at all times?

[Dr. Jay Lemry]

Yeah, we're there supporting them and we'll just say, you know, several months they could be there and common things happen commonly. So really our capacity is to provide for urgent care. It's also a high altitude environment. It's at 10,500ft. So certainly the people that show up on day one or two from the coast, flying in from the coast, just like anyone going to the high peaks of Colorado will have to deal with altitude illness and so monitoring for that and treating them for that and then being there, you know, if there's a. For the. If and when. So if there's an illness or an injury, we have the capacity to take care of that as well. From usually mid spring, so around April until the end of the research season, which is third week of August, we have one of our physicians on the ice.

[John Daly]

How long does it take to get there and how do you get there?

[Dr. Jay Lemry]

We hitch a ride with the Air National Guard and the base that supports Summit station has special C130s that are military cargo planes with skis on them. And so it's a very specialized unit out of upstate New York. And we file in with researchers and workers and fly to either direct or sometimes we'll stop off in Goose Bay, Canada to refuel and then to the coast of Greenland and then to the top of the ice sheet commercial to basically Albany, New York, and then Goose Bay, Canada, a town called Kangerlusslack on the coast of Greenland. And then to the top of the ice sheet, which is about a two hour flight from the coast. Total time about 8 to 10 hours. We were doing a due diligence tour, so I was only there for two nights. And we were bopping around all the different sites in Greenland where the National Science foundation has operations. So we were on the coast and we actually also flew to Bitufic Space Base, that's the US Space Force in northwest Greenland. And we were there as well, checking out operations there to support research.

[John Daly]

Speaking of research, had a lot of federal cuts in the past year and a half or so. Is that impacting the programs there as well as the side of it that you're working in?

[Dr. Jay Lemry]

We know that science across the government, science funding has decreased. I'll say that the program has done well in new. Maintaining operational continuity. We've been able to do that. But certainly, yeah, the research funding at large has been well publicized that there's less of it for investigators. And many of our investigators come out of different universities. And so, yeah, that's something that has definitely happened in the last couple of years with Greenland. You know, it's a bellwether for climate change. We know that climate change is disproportionately impacting the polar regions in terms of parts of our planet. And many of the people who live there are very articulate in saying, you know, this space used to be full of snow, the glacier used to be here, and now it's receded several miles and that's happening all over the island. So we. And then flying over Greenland, a lot of the ice researchers I was with say, do you see all those pools of water on the ice and which were readily apparent from the airplane? And they say that the amount has never existed like that before. So lots of evidence to suggest that the Polar ice caps, and certainly Greenland is the largest polar ice cap in the Northern Hemisphere, are receding and getting smaller.

[John Daly]

As a scientist, as a Coloradan, how do you feel about seeing Greenland and thinking about what's happening to the Earth and to the climate?

[Dr. Jay Lemry]

Well, we know the Arctic is a fragile ecosystem and it's a bellwether for what we're seeing across the planet. It's a warming planet in the ice cap of Greenland is really what retains a lot of the fresh water on the planet. So there is a real threat if this ice cap melts over the next decades, that sea level rise. And that puts a tremendous amount of stress along the coastlines and the many people that live along the coast in terms of sea level rise and storm surges.

[John Daly]

So we've been having a very hot year in Colorado right now. What sorts of health issues are you going to be on the lookout for?

[Dr. Jay Lemry]

Yeah, in terms of health issues, you know, we think about heat stress for Coloradans who historically haven't had to deal with the intensity of the heat or the duration of a heat wave. We know that this is all going to drive wildfires to be more intense and last longer. And of course, that has a mortal threat to anyone near a wildfire, but also degrades air quality, you know, perhaps even for the entire state for weeks on end. And then there's droughts. So the water stress that we're seeing for Colorado communities, it's real. There are public health impacts of that, and we're going to have to address that. So what we're seeing is sadly what we have predicted for decades, which is that as this gets worse, the environmental stress we see, we're seeing it, and those have trickle down health impacts.

[John Daly]

What's your advice for Coloradans to deal with that and also policymakers?

[Dr. Jay Lemry]

My advice to Coloradans to deal with this would be this is a threat to our state and we should treat it as such. It's an important policy issue. We should bring this to all of our legislators. It should not be a bipartisan. It's just science. There are plenty of ways to mitigate this. The solutions we have are getting better and better every year. And so I think to have a bipartisan conversation to lean in to how we can make this less bad is gonna be an important thing in the future years.

[Ryan Warner]

That is Dr. Jay Lemry speaking with CPR health reporter John Daly. Lemry is an emergency physician at CU Anschutz. He also leads the School of Medicine's Climate and Health Program, Bats Appear on summer nights in Denver, zigzagging. For insect listener Nicole Schwartz wants to know where they spend the days. Well, CPR's Jenny Brundine met Nicole in her Baker neighborhood and brought a bat expert.

[Jenny Brundine]

Since bats are really hard to find in the day, we thought we'd start at night.

[Stina Siegfried]

Hi.

[Nicole Schwartz]

Hi.

[Sal Pace]

Very nice to meet you.

[Jenny Brundine]

Nice to meet you. Nicole Schwartz says she started noticing bats on evening walks. When I look up in the sky, I see bunches of bats fluttering around. I was wondering, where do they roost during the day? Where do they go? When bats disappear at dawn, they gotta decompress, otherwise known as roosting.

[Nicole Schwartz]

They want someplace that they're gonna feel protected during the day. Safe and protected.

[Jenny Brundine]

Paige Singer, a conservation ecologist with Rocky Mountain Wild, says in cities like Denver, that often means an attic or eave or other small crevices where bats can tuck themselves away. Near Daley park, just south of downtown

[Nicole Schwartz]

here you've got lots of buildings. The South Platte is not too far from us with lots of bridges.

[Jenny Brundine]

Near Daley park, they swoop down to the Platte river, using their wings to scoop up water.

[Nicole Schwartz]

They have the same anatomy as us with our arms and our fingers, but they've just got a membrane in between that help them fly.

[Stina Siegfried]

Very cool.

[Jenny Brundine]

Oh, my God, I wish I had that membrane. Their roosting spots are built right into the landscape. Paige says bats want very little to do with people.

[Nicole Schwartz]

Bats want as much to do with us as we want to do with them.

[Jenny Brundine]

There's one right, right over your head. The sun has set. The bats zigzag erratically above the park. Bats navigate by echolocation.

[Nicole Schwartz]

They are emitting sounds that bounce off of things and bring information back to them.

[Jenny Brundine]

We hunch over Paige's phone. This is really cool. A tiny echo meter is attached. It records the bats ultrasonic calls and turns them into sounds we humans can hear later and sounds we can see.

[Stina Siegfried]

It looks like sheet music.

[Sandy Botoulga]

It's really cool.

[Jenny Brundine]

The sounds and visual notations are distinct for each phase of snatching an insect.

[Nicole Schwartz]

So you've got your search phase, your searching corresponds. And then you've got your ability. So they're approaching. And then you've got your terminal phase where they're just going in and getting it.

[Jenny Brundine]

The device also identifies the species of bat flying above.

[Ryan Warner]

We're getting big brown bat and silver haired bat so far.

[Stina Siegfried]

So this is really specific and nerdy,

[Ryan Warner]

but are they actually nocturnal or are they crepuscular?

[Jenny Brundine]

I had to get Nicole to explain that word. Crepuscular means active at dawn and dusk. Colorado's insect eating bats are nocturnal. Larger fruit eating bats in the tropics, like the flying fox, are crepuscular. These bats are hunting insects around the park's lights.

[Nicole Schwartz]

One bat can eat up to a thousand insects in one hour.

[Sal Pace]

Wow.

[Stina Siegfried]

I can't even imagine that.

[Jenny Brundine]

Mosquitoes, moths and beetles. The buffet nobody really wants. Except bats. Nicole's keeping a close watch on the phone for the species of bats flying by.

[Ryan Warner]

I have bad attention span.

[Sandy Botoulga]

That's why.

[Nicole Schwartz]

Did you say bat attention span?

[Stina Siegfried]

God, don't do this to me.

[Andy O'Connor]

I thought you said bat.

[Jenny Brundine]

I didn't mean it for a minute. I forget. We are in the city.

[Sandy Botoulga]

God, I love Taylor Hart.

[Jenny Brundine]

A guy on an electric skateboard suddenly flies by playing an electric guitar. We love it. But not exactly a serenade for the bats. Along with noise pollution, Colorado bats face growing threats. White nose syndrome, wind turbines and shrinking insect populations. One effort to help is Colorado Bat Watch.

[Nicole Schwartz]

We actually don't know a whole lot about where bats are roosting.

[Jenny Brundine]

In Colorado, members of the public can report roosts to help researchers protect these mammals. Bats provide big benefits from eating crop destroying insects to pollinating plants. Not bad for a creature that spends its days upside down and its nights eating mosquitoes. The world is very cool.

[Ryan Warner]

You just gotta get curious.

[Jenny Brundine]

There's a lot out there.

[Ryan Warner]

And you know, you don't have to go to the mountains, right? You can go to your backyard.

[Jenny Brundine]

Paige says you don't need to worry about bats in your eaves. Just leave them alone. For more information on how you can help, from the flowers to plant to building a bat box, to seeing really cool photos, go to cpr.org I'm Jenny Brundine, CPR News.

[Ryan Warner]

What do you wonder about? Ask [e-mail] ColoradoWonders. And that's Colorado Matters for now. Thanks for spending time in our belfry. I'm Ryan Warner at CPR News and krcc.

[Andy O'Connor]

Ra.