July 24, 2026: Monsoon hopes; peculiar cemetery stories

Summary

Podcast Summary: Colorado Matters – July 24, 2026

Episode Theme:
From the urgent hope for monsoon moisture in a parched state to the peculiar histories and social significance of Denver’s cemeteries, this episode of Colorado Matters (hosted by Ryan Warner and Chandra Thomas Whitfield) explores Colorado's intersections of climate, water conservation, memory, and identity.

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Monsoon Hopes and Colorado’s Challenging Climate

Key Contributors: Ryan Warner (Host), Lisa Hidalgo (Denver7 Chief Meteorologist)

Key Topics & Insights

• Heatwaves & Wildfire Worries

  • Denver recently reached its first 100-degree day of the year on July 20, which is later than usual ([02:42])
    • "It's usually earlier. The earliest that we'd ever hit a triple digit day was on June 11th." — Lisa Hidalgo ([02:42])
  • Summer brings growing concern:
    • Heat advisories, air quality alerts, wildfires, flash floods, and mudslides—particularly aggravated by burn scars from wildfires

• Monsoon Season: Pros & Cons

  • Monsoon moisture brings relief, but risks rapid, localized downpours over fragile burn scars, causing mudslides ([00:15], [01:41])
    • "We're talking... rainfall rates upwards of around 1 to 2 inches per hour. That's a lot concentrated in a small area." — Lisa Hidalgo ([00:15], [02:07])

• Mixed Effects of Rainfall on Wildfires

  • While increasing humidity and rain help suppress fires and lower red flag warnings, rainstorms can also trigger more fires via lightning and promote new undergrowth—future fire fuel ([04:08])
  • "It's not clear cut, it seems to me." — Ryan Warner ([04:34])

• Drought and Reservoirs

  • Reservoir levels remain below normal; some improvement due to mountain rains, but western Colorado faces "exceptional drought" ([05:11])
  • Drought severity varies: one pocket on the eastern plains has become drought-free

• Snow Drought & Climate Change

  • Colorado School of Mines study: climate change makes "snow drought" (lack of winter snow) four times more likely; projections triple the probability by the 2050s ([06:15])
    • "When you look they said by the 2050s, that probability is almost three times more due to climate change." — Lisa Hidalgo ([06:30])
  • Highlights the need to think about climate on a decade-to-decade scale ([07:08])

• Hurricane Insights

  • While Colorado doesn't see hurricanes, the state is a hub for forecasting (Colorado State University, Fort Collins)
  • 2026 season: 55% probability of below-normal hurricane activity due to El Niño ([07:35])

Notable Quotes

• "Burn scars, that's fire makes the soil impenetrable for a while and everything runs off." — Ryan Warner ([01:59])
• "It's a perfect balance and at least we're starting to see things green up a little bit more." — Lisa Hidalgo ([04:36])
• Humorous aside:
  • "We do not have hurricanes here. Lisa Hidalgo, this just in." — Ryan Warner ([07:15])

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Water Conservation: The Promise of Graywater

Key Contributors: Molly Cruz (CPR Reporter), Erin Rolfe (Denver Resident), Drew Elmore (Denver Health and Environment Dept.)

Key Topics & Insights

• Urban Water Reuse: Graywater System

  • Denver resident Erin Rolfe reuses washing machine graywater to irrigate her yard ([09:21])
  • Prompted by years of drought and new water restrictions
  • City of Denver offers "Laundry to Landscape" courses to help residents install safe graywater systems ([10:15])
    • "We're empowering folks to do the work and...helping people do it in a safe and responsible way." — Drew Elmore ([11:29])
  • Denver is a leader; not all Colorado cities allow graywater systems (local opt-out is possible) ([13:10])

• Significance

  • Personal actions, like graywater reuse, could have significant aggregate impact as droughts worsen ([12:18])
    • "These water restrictions...are probably going to become more normal." — Drew Elmore ([12:18])

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Peculiar Cemetery Stories: Memory, Competition, and Colorado History

Key Contributors: Ryan Warner (Host), Mark Barnhouse (Historian/Author), James Cavoto (President, Fairmount Heritage Foundation)

Key Topics & Insights

• Denver’s Cemeteries: Layers of Story

  • Focus on Fairmount Cemetery, featured in new book Historic Cemeteries of Denver
  • Cemeteries, once mere burial grounds, became places to display individuality & wealth ([16:25])
    • Transition from crowded churchyards to "garden cemeteries" — park-like, landscaped (e.g., modeled after Mount Auburn, Cambridge MA) ([16:58])

• Strange Tales and Grave Misconceptions

  • The glass-windowed Cobb plot—subject of a local "ghost story" ([14:28])
    • "The urn got moved way in the corner...we thought, what's going on?" — James Cavoto ([14:46])
  • Ongoing discoveries of remains, especially when public parks (like Cheesman) are developed over old burial sites ([17:55])
    • "Yes, the park's crew occasionally finds bodies, or just parts of bodies." — Mark Barnhouse ([17:55])

• Competition Between Cemeteries

  • Fairmount vs. Riverside Cemetery; families moved their dead for prestige, neighborhood qualities ([18:49], [19:05])
  • Land, water rights, and industrial encroachment all factored into cemetery rivalry ([19:38])
  • Notable story: Riverside lost its water rights in a state Supreme Court case, leading to arid grounds ([20:33])

• Cenotaphs and Markers: When Stones Lie

  • Many markers (e.g., Nukasee Mahoney/Jehaun Sunbo Wootton) tell creative or false stories about the deceased ([22:21])
    • "She claimed to be the daughter of this man, but she would have had to have been 120 years old when she died..." — Mark Barnhouse ([22:38])
  • Cenotaphs mark people not actually buried there, e.g., lost at sea ([23:29])

• Notable Memorials

  • Nisei Memorial: Honors Japanese Americans who served in WWII while their families were incarcerated ([27:41])
    • "And every year, there's a huge event at the Nisei Memorial." — James Cavoto ([27:53])
  • Block 46: Grave of Governor Ralph Carr, who opposed Japanese internment ([28:20])
  • Mausoleums:
    • Tower of Memories at Crown Hill resulted in a Ponzi scheme and prison for the developers ([28:55])
      • "It was a classic 1920s get rich quick scheme." — Mark Barnhouse ([28:56])
    • Fairmount Mausoleum: Largest in Colorado, completed on time and under budget ([30:49])

• Historic Transitions & Modern Use

  • Cheesman Park: Once a cemetery, land was transformed to parkland after acts of Congress ([25:34])
    • "It actually took an act of Congress to formalize the transfer from the tribes to the city of Denver." — Mark Barnhouse ([25:56])
  • Fairmount as arboretum and wildlife refuge; community use encouraged, including dog walking clubs ([35:47])
  • The rise of cremation; today, 65% in Colorado choose cremation ([33:08])

Memorable Moments

• Animal Intrigue
  • Coyotes and foxes at Fairmount, with a "poodle incident" reminding visitors to leash pets ([36:44])
• Historical Webs
  • Connections: Alfred Packer (cannibal) is buried in Littleton Cemetery; his prosecutor is buried elsewhere in Denver ([32:21])

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Coloradan Identity: State Pride, Food, and Belonging

Key Contributors: Arlo Perez Esquibel Benta, CPR Reporters, Ryan Warner

Key Topics & Insights

• Colorado Pride & Values

  • 86% say protecting land, water, wildlife is vital to Colorado’s identity ([39:52])
    • "Protecting Colorado's lands, water and wildlife. 86% said that was very important." — Lori Weigel, pollster ([39:52])
  • More Coloradans are proud of their state (84%) than proud to be American (75%) ([41:06])
  • Pride varies by political identity—conservatives report more American pride; liberals/moderates, more Colorado pride ([41:44])

• Food as Identity

  • Green chili, beer, pueblo chiles, Rocky Mountain oysters, peaches/melons, and breakfast burritos cited as distinctively Colorado ([42:22])
    • "Breakfast burritos...I think there'd be plenty of other states that may have serious problems if Colorado tries to lay claim..." — Arlo Perez Esquibel Benta ([42:56])

• Civic Knowledge

  • 91% believe understanding how state government works is an important characteristic of being a Coloradan ([43:17]), but only 45% trust the state to "do the right thing" ([43:43])

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Names, Community, and Identity

Key Contributors: Nate Fernando Frescas (Host of Voices Unbound), Ryan Warner

Key Topics & Insights

• Personal Stories of Naming, Adoption, and Heritage

  • Nathan (Nando) Fernando Frescas shares his journey reclaiming his birth name as an adoptee, and how this prompted reflections on cultural heritage ([44:40])
    • "When I was adopted in 1979, the common thinking was full assimilation...I was always going to be a Heffel." — Nathan Fernando Frescas ([44:53])
  • Names carry personal and cultural meaning; stories of refugees and adoptees changing/adapting names explored in upcoming live event, "Voices Unbound" ([45:48])

• Broader Community Connections

  • Featuring state Supreme Court Justice Carlos Samor (immigrant from El Salvador), Lela Welch (adoptee from India), among others ([48:00])
  • Aims to spark discussion and reflection on inclusion, identity, and community in Colorado

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Timestamps of Key Segments

| Segment | Start | |------------------------------------------|-------------| | Monsoon, wildfires & weather discussion | 00:00–08:18 | | Water conservation/graywater homes | 08:33–13:10 | | Denver cemeteries & ghost stories | 14:02–37:01 | | State pride, identity, values poll | 39:33–43:43 | | Names, adoption & "Voices Unbound" promo | 44:40–48:42 |

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Notable Quotes

• "No other marker in Colorado has windows in it."
  — Mark Barnhouse on the Cobb plot's unique headstone ([16:12])

• "In a way, Riverside is the more accurate representation of our climate, as opposed to the garden park nature of Fairmont."
  — Ryan Warner ([21:17])

• "You can put two urns in a grave site...between two graves...our family plot holds eight full casket spaces, but it'll also hold 12 urns."
  — James Cavoto ([33:34])

• "If you can't pronounce my name, that's a you problem, not a me problem."
  — Ryan Warner ([47:50])

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Tone & Language

The episode maintains an engaging, conversational, and lightly humorous tone—balancing thoughtful reporting, local color, historical depth, and personal storytelling. Panelists and guests use accessible language while delving into scientific, historical, and cultural issues, inviting listeners to reflect on connections between personal identity, public spaces, climate, and community.

Transcript

[Ryan Warner]

From cpr news, this is colorado matters. Deadly wildfires and three digit highs have us longing for moisture. But even rain is a mixed bag when it pours.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

We're talking in some cases slower moving cells when we get the monsoon moisture. So you get rainfall rates upwards of around 1 to 2 inches per hour. That's a lot concentrated in a small area. And some of those burn scars, that's

[Ryan Warner]

in our regular climate and weather chat with Denver7's Lisa Hidalgo. Then the peculiar history of Denver cemeteries like the Ponzi scheme, the state supreme court case and bodies dug up and

[Mark Barnhouse]

relocated just as recently as 2002. In the Denver Botanic Gardens, which was the Catholic cemetery Mount Calvary, they found an arm bone in the Japanese garden standing amongst headstones.

[Ryan Warner]

We'll discuss the new book Historic Cemeteries a Denver. This is Colorado Matters from CPR News and krcc. I'm Ryan Warner. You know, weather conditions this time of year can be hard to keep up with. Heat advisories, air quality alerts, wildfires, flash floods, and as we saw on I70 outside Glenwood Springs and elsewhere this week, mudslides. This is the scenario Denver 7 Chief Meteorologist Lisa Hidalgo returned to from her summer vacation. Hello again, Lisa.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

Can I go back on vacation?

[Ryan Warner]

I understand seeing all of this occurring would make you long for Mallorca. Of all of the conditions I listed, what stands out to you most? Like, are we seeing any trends now

[Lisa Hidalgo]

that we're getting into end of July, we're starting to see more of the monsoon moisture. So likely heavier rains in areas. I mean, for the past few days we haven't seen much over the Eastern Plains. Finally tapping into that though, within the past couple of days. But it'll be the mountains that we're watching and after the fires and obviously the burn scars, mudslides are a huge concern.

[Ryan Warner]

Burn scars, that is fire makes the soil impenetrable for a while and everything runs off.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

Exactly. I mean, the other really key note to this is rapid rainfall rates. I mean, we're talking in some cases slower moving cells when we get the monsoon moisture. So you get rainfall rates upwards of around 1 to 2 inches per hour. That's a lot concentrated in a small area. And some of those burn sc. You know, I heard someone describe it. This was I think a good description. It's almost like a waxy surface, the burn scar. So any water that lands on it's just gonna run right off.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay, that's a helpful Visual. Denver hit 100 degrees for the first time this year, July 20th. How does that Compare to previous years and are we in store for triple digits again?

[Lisa Hidalgo]

It's usually earlier. In fact I was looking back the earliest that we'd ever hit a triple digit day was on June 11th. So this took it's sweet time to get that. Usually it's end of June that we start to see our record highs in the triple digits. So this was a little bit later. You know, I'm hoping we don't have any more triple digit days but it looks like we've got another one coming up this weekend on Sunday which could be our second triple digit day of the year.

[Ryan Warner]

Would that be any sort of record setter?

[Lisa Hidalgo]

No, not a record setter. I mean really this time of year we will see triple digit heat. 105 is the highest that it's ever officially been out at the airport. What we do watch out for what is rare is to get back to back triple digit days. That usually doesn't happen.

[James Cavoto]

So.

[Ryan Warner]

So that's something to be mindful of. You said the word monsoon. There's been a lot of talk about monsoon and the hope that comes with it. Certainly with the fires. I had to look this up. It's a word with Arabic roots. It comes from the word mossam meaning season.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

Season.

[Ryan Warner]

Are people's high hopes for monsoon being fulfilled when it comes to the question of extinguishing fires or preventing them? Or are these so short lived that they don't really make a difference?

[Lisa Hidalgo]

I mean, you know, we've been talking for months now about now getting into an El Nino pattern which would then bring some heavier rains with this monsoon. So I do think that we are getting into a better spot when it comes to precipitation, especially over the western half of the state. So I do think it is going to help.

[Ryan Warner]

There's always the question. I was having a conversation with a journalist who covers wildfires. There's always the conversation about whether a storm is on balance helpful or hurtful because storms also bring lightning which can trigger fires. And you might get a sprinkle that greens up the area a little bit and then just creates more fuel to burn. It's not clear cut it seems to me.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

No, and you're right, it is a perfect balance and at least we're starting to see things green up a little bit more. The nice thing is is when you get higher humidities that is really key when it comes to fire danger and red flag warnings. Higher humidities really help a with fighters there and then also getting some cooler temps out west too. So the pattern has shifted in a More positive direction this past couple of weeks.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay, so monsoon does bring humidity. I walked out of the newsroom the other day and it was really humid.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

A little muggy, right? A little sweaty. Yeah.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay, but that's good. Where do we stand on drought reservoir levels?

[Lisa Hidalgo]

When the new drought monitor came out, there are some areas across the state where it's improving. Reservoir levels are still below normal, well below normal there. The rains in the mountains have helped, I would say. There's prob areas that have benefited, spots like Dillon Reservoir. But when it comes to the drought map, there is still a huge section of western Colorado that's under some exceptional drought conditions. There's one pocket on the eastern plains where we are now drought free. So that's nice. But it is a little more severe across the metro area.

[Ryan Warner]

Good for that one pocket on the plains. I've been thinking a lot lately about wildfire as weather. I mean, it influences air quality, it leads to mudslides. As we've said on burn scars, fire is also part of the natural cycle, which we've long suppressed. Officials predicted a very active year. Seems like we're getting it.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

We are. I mean, it's been pretty active and we've had some big fires, too. I mean, you're looking down, you know, at the Aspen Acres fire. Some people just got let back to their homes. And so it's been quite some time. We are now, at least I think, getting a hold. When you look at where the firefighters are working, they're able to now get ahold of it with some of the rain that's come in. So at least we've seen some positivity there.

[Ryan Warner]

There is a new study of snow drought that comes from the Colorado School of Mines in Golden. It finds climate change made this dearth of snow four times more likely. What'd you make of the findings?

[Lisa Hidalgo]

What I thought was interesting. I mean, we talk about year to year, how different it can be here in Colorado. And since we've been looking at potentially this stronger El Nino pattern during the winter season, we've talked about there being heavier snow. So I think it would be a small bout of excitement to be like, yay, we get a lot of snow this season. I think you have to look at the longer impact of this. And what was a little scary from this finding was that when you look they said by the 2050s, that probability is almost three times more due to climate change. So that's scary. When you look at over the next 20 to 30 years, what does that mean?

[Ryan Warner]

That is that More snow. Drought is likely on the horizon when you look beyond a single year.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

Correct? Exactly. And I think when we do talk about climate change, that's what you have to look at, not year to year, but more, maybe decade to decade.

[Ryan Warner]

We do not have hurricanes here. Lisa Hidalgo, this just in.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

Wow.

[Ryan Warner]

This just in. It's nice when I can teach you something. We do have the preeminent hurricane prediction center at Colorado State University in Fort Collins. What are we seeing for their forecast as the season gets really underway? It goes till November.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

It peaks in September, typically. It's usually when the ocean waters are at their warmest. You know, as we get into the end of summer. We do have some smart people here in Colorado, don't we, up there in Fort Collins? We do. Right now it looks like about a 55% probability of a below normal year, which could be related to El Nino as well. In fact, the Pacific will typically see a higher than average number of hurricanes versus the Atlantic seeing a lower number when we see more of an El Nino pattern.

[Ryan Warner]

Lisa Hidalgo, I consider you one of the smart people.

[Molly Cruz]

Wow.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

I will take that because the compliments don't come.

[Arlo Perez Esquibel Benta]

Well.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

They're few and far between.

[Ryan Warner]

You know, I dole them out sparingly. Thank you. I missed you. I doubt you missed me.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

I missed you so much.

[Ryan Warner]

Lisa Hidalgo is Chief Meteorologist at Denver7. We speak monthly about weather and climate. A way to conserve water may already be running through your home. CPR's Molly Cruz has this story.

[Arlo Perez Esquibel Benta]

So this one here in the front is Loud Wings, and then this is Jessie. And this one with the big feathered wings is Airplane Dino. She must be off leg and egg rag.

[Molly Cruz]

Erin Rolfe is standing in her backyard tending to a small flock of chickens. She says admittedly, all four birds were named by a five year old, but they are just only a few of the many tenants that have taken up residence outside her home off of East Colfax in Denver.

[Arlo Perez Esquibel Benta]

I have some bees in my yard.

[James Cavoto]

There's a lot of herbs and plants

[Arlo Perez Esquibel Benta]

and some native plants in the area in the garden as well.

[Molly Cruz]

Rolf has spent the last five years transforming her yard into an urban oasis. But this year, one thing is top of mind for her water.

[Arlo Perez Esquibel Benta]

I think there's a lot of water

[Ryan Warner]

that we're wasting in our house.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

And so if I can divert laundry

[Arlo Perez Esquibel Benta]

water out into my lawn to feed

[Mark Barnhouse]

some plants, especially when we're on water

[Arlo Perez Esquibel Benta]

restrictions, I think it's a really smart

[Mark Barnhouse]

use to get a double dip in your water.

[Molly Cruz]

And Rolf isn't alone over the last few weeks, CPR News has received dozens of questions through Colorado Wonders asking how people can conserve water, especially after Colorado's unusually warm winter and historically low snowpack. For some residents, one answer may already be flowing through their homes. A few weeks ago, Rolf signed up for a class at Red Rocks Community College to learn how to reuse gray water from her washing machine to irrigate her yard.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Greywater sourced within our home comes from our laundry machine, our bathroom sink and our bath and shower.

[Molly Cruz]

That's Drew Elmore with Denver's Health and Environment Department. He teaches the city's new laundry to landscape classes like the one Rolf took, which shows homeowners how to safely redirect greywater into their outdoor irrigation systems.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Greywater, if it's not rerouted for reuse within the home, it goes to the sewer and then ultimately the water treatment plant. So here in Denver, that means it ends up at Metro Water Recovery and then it's treated and ends up in the South Platte River.

[Molly Cruz]

And just to note, greywater is different from the water that comes from our toilets or kitchen sinks, commonly referred to as black water, which usually contains higher levels of waste, grease and bacteria. Right now, Elmo is in Rolf's backyard along with a handful of other people, some standing in freshly dug knee high trenches while others are arranging a tangled of web of irrigation pipes across the dirt. Just hours earlier, most of them had been strangers, but they had one thing in common. Like Rolf, they had all taken Elmo's class at Red Rocks Community College.

[Mark Barnhouse]

We're empowering folks to do the work and I've found in the years that I've been doing this program, people want to to do things differently. They know what the solutions are. And so we're helping people do it in a safe and responsible way.

[Molly Cruz]

Elmore, who spearheaded the city's new program, says students will learn everything from how to build and plumb an irrigation system in their own backyard to learning all about greywater codes and regulations in Colorado. In some ways, installing the system at Rolf's home was their final exam. And besides making greywater systems more accessible and affordable, Elmore says one of his biggest goals for the program is to help people understand their relationship with water as a resource.

[Mark Barnhouse]

You know, the reality is we're getting warmer and drier and so these water restrictions that we're facing this summer are probably going to become more normal.

[Molly Cruz]

Denver is one of the first cities in Colorado to offer classes teaching residents how to reuse greywater at home. The four Hour Laundry to Landscape course is open to anyone living in the city and county of Denver, with most of the cost covered by the city and the Colorado Water Conservation Board. And for homeowners like Rolf, the goal isn't just saving water, it's making the most of every drop. As severe drought conditions become more common across Colorado, city leaders say small changes like these could make a bigger difference in the years ahead.

[James Cavoto]

Molly.

[Molly Cruz]

I'm Molly Cruz. CPR News.

[Ryan Warner]

Important to note that not every city allows for gray water. Under state law, communities can opt out. And indeed, we learned that is the case in Colorado Springs, where we answered another listener question in May. We'll take a break and then meet you at a cemetery. This is Colorado Matters from CPR News. It's Colorado Matters from CPR News. I'm Ryan Warner, and I've come to the state's largest arboretum that is Colorado's vastest collection of trees and shrubs. This spot is also a certified wildlife preserve. Can you guess where I am? Fairmont Cemetery in Denver, one of more than a dozen resting places featured in the new book Historic Cemeteries of Denver. Authors Mark Barnhouse and James Cavoto are here with me. Hi, gentlemen.

[James Cavoto]

Hi.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Hi, Ryan.

[Ryan Warner]

I don't usually conduct interviews in cemeteries, but here we are. Every headstone, every crypt here, every niche, every urn represents a life. And your book teems with names and stories from governors to madams to an Apollo astronaut. But I asked you to choose a plot for our meeting. Whose plot is this?

[James Cavoto]

This is the Cobb plot.

[Ryan Warner]

The Cobb plot. K, A, U, B. Cobb.

[James Cavoto]

That's right.

[Ryan Warner]

Now, this is a rare marker that seems to have glass in it.

[James Cavoto]

It has glass in it. And it has a bust of Mr. And Mrs. Cobb and the marker. And then below it, there's a piece that was added, and there's a story with that whole piece in itself.

[Ryan Warner]

A ghost story.

[James Cavoto]

A ghost story, yes. Basically, what happened is the granddaughter from New York, Fifth Avenue, I might point out, came and she said, I want to put my ashes there, below there. And I said she had the proof to do it, and you can't just do it. You got to have the information and the proof. So she checked all the boxes, but she bought an urn. And all of a sudden, the urn got moved way in the corner. We thought, what's going on? Originally, she had put the ashes in the middle of the grandparents, and then the urn got moved, shoved in the corner. And so we thought, what's going on? You know, so the ground screw was freaking out, the office was freaking out. We're all going, what's going on? And then about two years later, I'm in the office and somebody wanted to talk to the boss. So they got me. And these two old men said, remember the night we stuck in the cemetery and moved that old bitty's urn? I said, what old biddy? And they proceeded to tell me how they came in at night, which is impossible to come into this place at night. But they did it and they moved the urn.

[Ryan Warner]

Not a ghost? Not a ghost, but some late night prowlers pretty much.

[James Cavoto]

So, yeah, late night prowlers who had

[Ryan Warner]

people thinking this was a ghost.

[James Cavoto]

That was exactly right.

[Ryan Warner]

This is such an unusual marker, Mark. I mean, I have not seen anything quite like it. The glass, well, it's become a bit opaque and frosted over time. And there is, Mark, a ghostly quality to this.

[Mark Barnhouse]

There's moisture in it. It makes me think that there's something alive in there, possibly. What's special about this? And you know, I've been to all 14 of the cemeteries in our book many times over, and there's no other marker in Colorado that has windows in it.

[James Cavoto]

This is the only marker in the state.

[Ryan Warner]

Oh, really?

[James Cavoto]

Yeah.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay. You've chosen well. You write that cemeteries are places where people put their individuality and their wealth on display.

[James Cavoto]

Right.

[Ryan Warner]

But burial grounds weren't always that, were they?

[James Cavoto]

Not at all, no.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Originally, burial grounds would be next to churches. And sometimes, you know, if you go back to the burial grounds, say in Boston, up on the north end there, you'll find layers and layers of people in the same grave because they would just keep. They didn't have the land. But it was the 19th century when Mount Auburn Cemetery in Cambridge, Massachusetts was established, 1838. And the founders of that cemetery had this idea of creating what they called a garden cemetery.

[Ryan Warner]

This is a term I hadn't been familiar with until I read your book, a garden cemetery. The notion that a cemetery should almost

[James Cavoto]

be park like, that's exactly right. In fact, that was Fairmont was designed after Mount Auburn, and so was Riverside after Mount Auburn.

[Ryan Warner]

That's fascinating. So two of Denver's most prominent cemeteries are garden cemeteries, fashioned after the one on the east coast you're referencing.

[James Cavoto]

And I'll see now, the old cemetery has curves and things like that. Reinhard Susi was the landscape architect who designed Fairmont Cemetery. He also designed city and county building on the capitol grounds. Helping out here, Mark, he.

[Mark Barnhouse]

He kind of did a redesign of City park after it was established. He designed Cheeseman park. And yes, as Jim said, he did the state capitol grounds originally.

[Ryan Warner]

Well, you dropped the name Cheeseman, so we've got to go right to the fact that Cheeseman park. And I feel like this is one of the first things I learned about Denver when I moved here 20 years ago. Did you know that park used to be a cemetery?

[James Cavoto]

Yes, sir.

[Ryan Warner]

You go into that in the book.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Yep, we do. And every time we give a talk, we also say, now, I think everybody in this room knows this fact, but just in case you do know that Cheeseman was a cemetery and that, yes, the park's crew occasionally finds bodies, or just parts of bodies. Just as recently as 2002, in the Denver Botanic Gardens, which was the Catholic cemetery, Mount Calvary, they found an arm bone in the Japanese garden.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay. And you note in the book, really, if you go way, way back to the first peoples of this land, burial grounds really are all around us.

[Mark Barnhouse]

They are.

[James Cavoto]

Very much so, yeah.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Yeah. Native American burial sites have been discovered, usually by road crews or construction crews in various sites. There was one out on Smoky Hill Road a few years ago. There was one out by the old Heritage Square amusement park near Golden.

[Ryan Warner]

I hadn't realized how much cemeteries are about competition.

[James Cavoto]

Oh, yeah.

[Ryan Warner]

I mean, Fairmount opens as an alternative to Riverside Cemetery across town.

[James Cavoto]

Correct.

[Ryan Warner]

And there are families, in fact, that move their dead.

[James Cavoto]

That's right.

[Ryan Warner]

That say, I want to be over there.

[James Cavoto]

That's right. Well, in fact, for example, Iliff, which is just behind us over there. Their monument was originally in Riverside Cemetery.

[Ryan Warner]

The Iliff family.

[James Cavoto]

The Iliff family was there with the Isliff monument, which is like 17ft tall. I think it's huge. They took it apart by wagon train. It was moved to Fairmont, and the kids did it when they were both buried there from Riverside, from Riverside Cemetery. Put it here.

[Mark Barnhouse]

And it was the most prominent marker at Riverside. If you're familiar with the layout of that cemetery, there's a section, it's block seven, that has a circle in the middle. It was in the middle of that

[James Cavoto]

circle, still called the Isle of Circle.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Yes.

[Ryan Warner]

My goodness. And why would one have moved from Riverside to Ferma? Did that have to do with the desiccated nature of Riverside?

[Mark Barnhouse]

Well, it wasn't the desiccation at the time, because it's only been in recent years that it's been so dry at Riverside. It had to do with the fact that the stockyards were abutting its southern border and that other industrial uses were starting to crop up east and west of it. And it didn't have that rural, bucolic feeling that people wanted, especially Denver's more wealthy people wanted. And which is why the founders of Fairmount came out here, far away from the city.

[Ryan Warner]

At the time, there was a loss of water rights at Riverside.

[James Cavoto]

There was a loss of water rights? Yeah. The water. Riverside basically just pumped the water in from the canal. The stream was, you know, was right there when Fermont bought it in 1910. Once a year, you have to do something with the state telling you what you're doing. So, like Fairmont, we say our water rights are tied to the Island Canal, but Riverside was like, well, they're tied to this, we think. We hope, but we're not sure. It was a handshake, and that's what it was. It was just a handshake.

[Ryan Warner]

No official water rights.

[James Cavoto]

No official water rights. So we end up in the state Supreme Court fighting over the water rights.

[Ryan Warner]

This went to the highest court in Colorado.

[James Cavoto]

That's exactly right. And we lost. And so we kept watering. And Denver Water would sell us water, but it was costing a small fortune. When I was running cemeteries, Riverside maybe did 25 barrels a year, and now they maybe do three.

[Ryan Warner]

Wow.

[James Cavoto]

And you just can't support on that, obviously. So what they did is they were pumping the water in. Well, then the decision was made in the 19 early 20s to stop watering and let the riverside go back to the sustainable landscaping that it was originally. And if you think about it, because there's no water in Colorado, the whole state is arid.

[Ryan Warner]

Yes.

[James Cavoto]

And all of this is fake. God bless it, you know?

[Ryan Warner]

Right. In a way, Riverside is the more accurate representation of our climate, as opposed to the garden park nature of Fairmont.

[James Cavoto]

That's right. And Fairmont, our water rights. We pump water from the Highland Canal, and then we also. The Highland Canal has water when it's running. Yeah, that's the other thing. But we also have water rights. Down south of us, there's a shopping center. And years ago, Fairmont sold the surface rights to the shopping center but retained the water rights.

[Ryan Warner]

My goodness.

[Mark Barnhouse]

So water on Leedsdale and Quebec.

[James Cavoto]

On Leedsdale and Quebec, yeah. So water is pumped up from there uphill. And Emanuel Cemetery is back this way.

[Ryan Warner]

Emanuel Cemetery is the Jewish cemetery, essentially. Within Fairmont.

[James Cavoto]

Within Fairmont, that's correct. Yeah.

[Ryan Warner]

This is several cemeteries, Mark.

[James Cavoto]

Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah.

[Mark Barnhouse]

And, Jim, isn't it also true that Fairmount owns Windsor Lake, which is just southeast of the cemetery?

[James Cavoto]

We originally owned Windsor Lake. Yeah. We still own the lake, but the water surface is very low.

[Ryan Warner]

Fascinating. To think about water rights in cemeteries. Back to some of the stories here at Fairmont. Just because something's on a headstone doesn't mean it's true. Who is Nukasee Mahoney? Jehan Sunbo Wootun.

[James Cavoto]

Well, the truth or what the marker says?

[Molly Cruz]

Uh huh.

[James Cavoto]

The truth.

[Ryan Warner]

Did I pronounce that right?

[James Cavoto]

Pretty close. I was pretty good.

[Ryan Warner]

How would you say this?

[Mark Barnhouse]

Wootton is the normal pronunciation of that

[James Cavoto]

part of the book.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay. Nakasee Mahoney.

[Mark Barnhouse]

But that's how I. The other parts. You.

[Ryan Warner]

Jehan Sunbo Woton Wootton.

[James Cavoto]

Sunbo Wooten. Wootton. Yeah, Wootton.

[Mark Barnhouse]

So Uncle Dick Wootton was an early Colorado pioneer and he was pretty famous. If you look at the early histories of Colorado, you'll find his name for her story to be. The daughter isn't. Didn't she claim. She claimed to be the daughter of this man, but she would have had to have been 120 years old when she died because the time periods just don't match. And she was a part time prostitute. She did all kinds of interesting things.

[James Cavoto]

Lots of stuff. Yeah. The big thing was that she wanted to do something wonderful for herself. And so she bought the pot that the marker's on, then she had the marker designed. And the bottom line is she was a hooker from San Francisco.

[Ryan Warner]

And so the marker is not accurate.

[James Cavoto]

Not at all.

[Ryan Warner]

It isn't who she actually is.

[James Cavoto]

Not at all.

[Ryan Warner]

In your book you use the word cenotaph. Cenotaph with some frequency.

[James Cavoto]

Yeah.

[Mark Barnhouse]

A cenotaph is a marker for somebody who's actually not buried there. Maybe he was buried at sea or was buried in some other cemetery. There's a famous cenotaph at Riverside, a man named James Archer who was instrumental in starting what's now Denver Water. This big beautiful bronze thing on a pedestal. And he's actually buried in St. Louis. Over in the Emanuel Cemetery there's a fascinating marker for Paul Thomas Cullen, who was a. He was in the Air Force and his plane went down over the Atlantic Ocean southwest of Ireland. His wife, Reeva Hurwitz, she was Jewish, he wasn't. But so she's in Emanuel Cemetery. And then his cenotaph is the backside of her marker.

[Ryan Warner]

And in that case it's that the remains could not be retrieved.

[James Cavoto]

She wanted a place of reef, what it all came down to.

[Ryan Warner]

Yeah, a place of grief.

[Mark Barnhouse]

And she always thought, of course, that the plane was shot down by the Soviets because he was an expert in nuclear armaments. And the plane was filled with nuclear people. And the idea was that perhaps they'd all been kidnapped by the Soviets. Now that was never proven.

[Ryan Warner]

My goodness.

[Mark Barnhouse]

But it's never been unproven either.

[Ryan Warner]

Stories today about the historic cemeteries of Denver. It's the new book by Mark Barnhouse and James Cavoto. We're back in this next half hour with lesser known burial grounds and a stained glass marvel. This is Colorado Matters from CPR News. You're back with Colorado Matters from CPR News and krcc. I'm Ryan Warner. Let's return to Fairmont Cemetery where I met authors Mark Barnhouse and James Cavoto. Their new book is Historic Cemeteries of Denver. It's about the city's final resting places, past and present. Why was Cheesman dug up?

[Mark Barnhouse]

Cheeseman was dug up because Denver originally, that cemetery, which was originally called Mount Prospect Cemetery, was founded by General William Larimer, the Denver founder, back in 1858, the same year the city was founded. And he looked for a plot of land for a cemetery that was well outside of this town.

[Ryan Warner]

That would be the notion that Cheeseman park is well outside.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Yeah, that was the whole point.

[James Cavoto]

Think about it. Yeah.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Like all this, people don't want, didn't want to have cemeteries next to their, you know, where they lived. So he chose this spot. Now, of course, at the time it was not his to choose. It was owned by the Arapaho and Cheyenne people by treaty. It actually took an act of Congress to formalize the transfer from the tribes to the city of Denver. Then it took another act of Congress a few decades later after Denver had grown up around what is now Cheesman Park. And those houses were nice houses especially, I mean, you think about the Humboldt Island Historic District right on the west side of the park. Denver's well heeled did not want an unsightly, unwatered cemetery because they didn't have water there. And it wasn't a beautiful garden cemetery like Fairmount. It was just kind of a boot hill. So they pressured the city and the city said, yeah, we want to convert this to parkland. So Senator Henry Teller, who's actually buried right here at Fairmount over on Millionaires Row, shepherded a bill through the Senate and then it was later through the House and state or federal. Federal. Yeah. This had to be done at the federal level. Oh, goodness. To turn. And so that's why the original name of Cheesman park was Congress Park. It was because of Congress that we had this as official parkland. And then later, when the widow of Walter Cheeseman donated the pavilion, the beautiful pavilion at the top of the hill. They named the park for him, and then they took the name Congress park and attached it to a somewhat less developed section to the east.

[Ryan Warner]

Whoa. I had no idea. That's my neighborhood. I didn't even know that. So it was called Congress Park. Park.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Yes.

[Ryan Warner]

Cheeseman was.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Yes.

[Ryan Warner]

And then that was reapplied to another park. And it's all because it took acts of Congress to make these possible.

[Mark Barnhouse]

That's right.

[Ryan Warner]

Fairmont, where we stand, is home to the Nisei Memorial.

[James Cavoto]

Yep.

[Ryan Warner]

Tell us about it.

[James Cavoto]

The Nisei Memorial is dedicated to the Japanese war veterans who served in the United States military while their families were incarcerated during World War II.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Yes.

[Ryan Warner]

At places like Camp Amache.

[James Cavoto]

Exactly like camp. And every year, there's a huge event at the Nisei Memorial. One year, they did flyovers, all kinds of stuff. I used to go to Represent Fairmont, and they did flyovers, they did Japanese dancing. But then they also went from there to Ralph Carr's grave. And Ralph Carr is the only governor in the country that had the guts to stand up to Roosevelt and said, you can't do this. This is wrong.

[Ryan Warner]

Indeed.

[James Cavoto]

He actually didn't get reelected. It cost him the election.

[Ryan Warner]

And where is his grave block?

[James Cavoto]

46. I think it's 46.

[Mark Barnhouse]

I think that's right.

[Ryan Warner]

Elsewhere in Fairmont.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Yeah. It's only a few hundred feet from the Nisei Memorial.

[Ryan Warner]

It's an amazing thing to think about the web of history, how particular plots are actually connected.

[James Cavoto]

Oh, yeah.

[Ryan Warner]

In life, you know.

[James Cavoto]

Absolutely.

[Ryan Warner]

Now, there is an impressive mausoleum here at Fairmount. I love to wander its halls. You contrast it with the Tower of memories at Crown Hill Cemetery over on the west side, and you write the tower there resulted in financial disaster and prison sentences.

[James Cavoto]

Pretty much.

[Mark Barnhouse]

It was a classic 1920s get rich quick scheme. Essentially, George Olinger, the man who founded Crown Hill and who was Denver's leading mortician. Olinger Mortuary at 16th and Boulder in Lohi.

[Ryan Warner]

Yes. Which has become Linger, the restaurant Linger

[Mark Barnhouse]

the rest of the. Minus the O from his old sign. Yes. So Oldinger had gotten busy with real estate developments. For example, he developed Bonnie Brae neighborhood in Denver, Indian Hills up in Turkey Creek Canyon. So he turned over management to these three men who had this idea to build a mausoleum. They hired a team of about 30 salespeople who went door to door all throughout Denver and convinced people to buy shares for seven or eight dollars a share, telling them that it would rise to about $9 a share within a few years time.

[Ryan Warner]

Oh, that this would be an investment.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Investment, yes.

[Ryan Warner]

Not just claiming your spot.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Exactly. And they spent so much money on the salesman's commissions and also, of course, on the construction which had started by the time this all kind of unraveled, that they found themselves with an empty bank account.

[Ryan Warner]

And almost like a Ponzi scheme.

[Mark Barnhouse]

It was kind of like a Ponzi scheme. And they fled. They fled. Two of them were quickly apprehended. The third one was at large for three or four years. They finally found them in a barber chair in Chicago. And all three of them served time in Canyon City in the penitentiary.

[Ryan Warner]

My goodness.

[Mark Barnhouse]

They didn't finish the tower until the late 1940s, after World War II.

[James Cavoto]

And it's still not finished.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Yeah. If you go upstairs in the tower, your Denverite colleague Kevin Beatty has been up there. I remember his article from a few years ago. He took some interesting photographs. But you go up there and they never have put bodies in the upper part of that building.

[Ryan Warner]

My goodness.

[James Cavoto]

A friend of mine ran Crown Hill for a long time and he took us up there. You go to the elevator, and the island is just concrete.

[Ryan Warner]

In the tower of Memories.

[James Cavoto]

In the tower of Memories, yeah. Now, the contrast to that is the Fremont Mausoleum here.

[Ryan Warner]

Indeed.

[James Cavoto]

Which is the largest mausoleum in the state of Colorado.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay.

[James Cavoto]

Started in 1929. And I think this is maybe what Olga was thinking, because they tried their stuff in 1929. Our fair mausoleum was started in 1929. The budget was a million dollars. It was finished on time, under budget,

[Ryan Warner]

and it is impressive.

[James Cavoto]

It's gorgeous.

[Ryan Warner]

It also feels a bit like a bomb shelter. Like if we were under some kind of nuclear attack, I feel like that mausoleum would be a safe space.

[James Cavoto]

Actually, that's what we were told as employees.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Just go down into the basement. That's fine.

[James Cavoto]

You'll be fine. Yeah. You'll be fine. Yeah.

[Ryan Warner]

Why do you think the mausoleum is such a special place?

[Mark Barnhouse]

Well, besides the fact that you. When you first walk in, you see the names Bonfies and Boettcher right in their family rooms right in front of you. Two of the most famous names in Denver history. As you walk through, you find stained glass windows. The mausoleum has the largest collection of stained glass windows in the state of Colorado.

[James Cavoto]

Private site.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Private, yeah. We should specify the Basilica Cathedral. The Immaculate Conception probably has more square footage of glass, but Fairmount has more windows, and a lot of them were done by Watson Stained Glass Studio.

[Ryan Warner]

James Cavoto, this question's for you. You in this book, Historic Cemeteries of Denver also cover Fort Logan, Mount Olivet Catholic Cemetery, and nine smaller ones. Would you pick a smaller one you think is worth a visit?

[James Cavoto]

Littleton Cemetery.

[Ryan Warner]

Littleton Cemetery. You did not hesitate.

[James Cavoto]

Well, that's. I'm prejudiced. My family is in buried. Littleton Cemetery. Okay, well, Alfred Packer's buried. Littleton Cemetery.

[Ryan Warner]

Oh, the cannibal.

[James Cavoto]

The cannibal's there? Yeah. Yeah. And actually the guy that prosecuted the cannibal is here.

[Ryan Warner]

Again, these are the webs that can be woven. What do you feel when you're at Littleton Cemetery?

[James Cavoto]

Well, because my family's there, it's very personal. And I have my spot where the tree's by the tree. That's where the marker is.

[Ryan Warner]

And is that where you'll be buried?

[James Cavoto]

No, I have a family plot at Fairmont.

[Ryan Warner]

At Fairmont Y.

[Mark Barnhouse]

It's over by the Highline. You should go check it out.

[James Cavoto]

It's. Yeah, it's really. We have the marker and everything.

[Ryan Warner]

Have you thought about that mark in putting this book together, where you want to be?

[Mark Barnhouse]

Honestly, I'm too much of a procrastinator to think about that at this point. I'll think about it one of these days.

[James Cavoto]

Should I send you a reminder?

[Mark Barnhouse]

Sure.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay. Ever the salesman. Are people being buried as much as they used to be?

[James Cavoto]

Yes and no. Because people are cremated.

[Ryan Warner]

Yes.

[James Cavoto]

Nowadays, the cremation in the Colorado is about 65% right now.

[Ryan Warner]

My goodness.

[James Cavoto]

But also you can bury the ashes.

[Ryan Warner]

Yes.

[James Cavoto]

But for example, at Fairmont, you've got niches in the mausoleum. Yes. Which is like a wall, either glass front or marble front. You put the urn in there. You can go to something like that building Chapman, that one. Let's say if that had walls around it, like a circle, they put niches in the circle.

[Mark Barnhouse]

That would be called a columbarium.

[James Cavoto]

Columbarium is correct. Yeah. And you could also bury underground. You can put in a grave site. You can put two urns in a grave site. And between two graves. For example, if you go back to my plot, our family plot holds eight full casket spaces, but it'll also hold 12 urns.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay.

[Mark Barnhouse]

So there's flexibility depending on what your kids want to do.

[James Cavoto]

What the kids want to do.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Yeah.

[Ryan Warner]

Yeah. Or you could sublet.

[James Cavoto]

We can't. But we wouldn't. We might. Maybe for him. I don't know. We'll see.

[Ryan Warner]

I recall that there was a trolley spur that came to Fairmont.

[James Cavoto]

There used to be. Yep.

[Ryan Warner]

There used to be movies.

[James Cavoto]

Uh huh. There still are movies. The charts for the movies nowadays. But they didn't back in the day.

[Ryan Warner]

This was a destination, that this was a park.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Well, getting back to the idea of garden cemeteries.

[Ryan Warner]

Yes.

[Mark Barnhouse]

In the 19th century, people regularly went to cemeteries instead of parks because a lot of cities didn't have nice parks like City or Cheeseman. And they would come here with the picnic baskets. They'd visit their relatives, they'd spend the day.

[James Cavoto]

Yeah. We actually have pictures in our archives and the cemetery's archives of people came on picnics with their baskets and stuff. And actually a fair mine had a trolley.

[Ryan Warner]

Yes.

[James Cavoto]

At 8th and. Excuse me, 8th and Quebec. If, you know, when we go back out, if you look to the left as we go down the drive, you'll see Hamilton, Frederick Hamilton's monument. As in Hamilton Museum, the art museum and everything.

[Ryan Warner]

Oh, yes.

[James Cavoto]

Okay, him. Anyway, his monument is where the old station used to be for the train station.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Okay.

[James Cavoto]

But the train station would go to 8th and Quebec and turn around and come back and go back.

[Mark Barnhouse]

It would connect with the Denver Tramway Systems trolley.

[Ryan Warner]

We've been standing under the glorious shade of this tree. I mentioned that Fairmount is Colorado's largest arboretum.

[James Cavoto]

There's trees like this all over the place, and they have markers on them.

[Molly Cruz]

Well.

[Mark Barnhouse]

And you notice that it's a champion tree. A champion tree is the largest example of a particular species in the state of Colorado. And this is the common champion tree of this common buckthorn.

[Ryan Warner]

Common buckthorn. People may not feel they can come to a cemetery if they don't have a loved one buried there. But my impression from our conversation is cemeteries are open to people who are curious and respectful.

[James Cavoto]

That's exactly true. Exactly. Actually, the cemetery now has a dog walkers club. And as long as your dog is on a leash, you know, when you pick up after a leash. Yes, please, please pick up. Yeah. I can tell you some stories about that one. In fact, I'll tell you a cute story.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay.

[James Cavoto]

We have this lady, and she's a little tiny lady. Years ago, and she had a poodle, and she let her poodle run, go. And I would stop by as a manager and say, ma', am, please put your poodle on the leash. She swear at me, go to hell. You know, I mean, not a very nice lady. The boss stopped by and said, ma', am, please put the dog on leash. She said, go to hell. And then about six months later, she came in screaming at the office. And the lady in the office, her name was Rhonda, she called me and she said, jim, the dog lady's upstairs. She said, the poodle. I said, okay. She said, she wants to talk to you. I said, okay. She said, by the way, the poodle had eaten because we have wildlife.

[Ryan Warner]

Oh.

[James Cavoto]

And that's why keep your dogs out of leash because they're gonna get eaten.

[Mark Barnhouse]

There could be coyotes here.

[James Cavoto]

Coyotes. We had coyotes. Foxes. There's actually a book written about Fairmont foxes.

[Ryan Warner]

Wow. Ooh, got a bird. Speaking of wildlife.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Sounded like a J.

[James Cavoto]

It's right there.

[Ryan Warner]

Remarkable.

[James Cavoto]

Right there through the trees.

[Ryan Warner]

Gentlemen, thank you so much for meeting me here.

[James Cavoto]

Thank you for coming, Ryan. Thank you.

[Ryan Warner]

James Cavoto Sr. Is president of the Fairmont Heritage Foundation. With historian Mark Barnhouse, he's written Historic Cemeteries of Denver. I'll throw a picture of them standing next to that headstone with a window into coloradamatters.org that's where you'll find our podcast. This is CPR News. It's Colorado Matters from CPR News. I'm Ryan Warner, and this is the time in the campaign when the gubernatorial candidates announce their running mates. Unlike other states, we don't elect lieutenants separately. Republican Victor Marks hasn't named his pick yet, but Phil Weiser chose a Jefferson county commissioner, Leslie Dahlkemper. Ahead of that big reveal, I asked on social media for your wildest ideas for second bananas. Some of you want broadcasters in the role. Kyle Clarke of nine News, Brett Saunders, whom KBCO just laid off. One of you suggested the creators of South Park, Trey Parker and Matt Stone in what would be a throuple ticket. Then there are sports heroes. Nikola Jokic, John Elway, Deion Sanders, or maybe a Manning. And y' all don't seem to mind deceased candidates because Molly Brown came up and Alford Packer. I suppose they're hungry for a win. Yes, we can, Nabal. But by far the silliest suggestion you had, Blucifer. And yet for the Democrats, the slogan writes itself vote Blue. How do you feel about our state and this country as both mark big milestones this year? The Sesquicemi Quincentennial. I love saying that. Colorado turns 150 August 1st. And, of course, the US just turned 250. A new survey from the Colorado Polling Institute asked hundreds of Coloradans all kinds of questions about the place they call home. CPR's been to Berkeley, discussed the takeaways with Arlo Perez, Esquibel Benta. I'm curious, what stood out to you the most?

[Arlo Perez Esquibel Benta]

The pollsters asked a bipartisan group of voters about things like state and national pride. What Values make Colorado unique. And Arlo, hold onto your hat, all right? This is going to shock you. The poll found out that Coloradans care a lot about the state's land, water and wildlife.

[Ryan Warner]

Coloradans liking the outdoors.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

What?

[Arlo Perez Esquibel Benta]

I know, right? But when they ask people to rank what they thought was important to Colorado's way of life, the answers were pretty familiar. And here's one of the pollsters, Republican Lori Weigel. She's with Newbridge strategy. Protecting Colorado's lands, water and wildlife. 86% said that was very important. Almost everyone said it was at least somewhat important to the Colorado way of life, ensuring freedom and personal choice. Not that far behind that. Four and five said that was very important. Providing opportunities to thrive economically and socially. That was about three quarters. What might surprise you, we live in such a partisan political era. The values fluctuated a bit depending upon whether the voter is a Democrat, Republican or unaffiliated, but not by much. And one thing I found interesting, rooting for Colorado's professional sports teams was at the bottom of the list. Only 24% of voters saying it was very important. So sorry. Broncos, Rockies, Nuggets, Avalanche.

[Ryan Warner]

Sorry for sure. So if pride in our sports team was that far down, I'm curious. How do people feel about our state as a whole?

[Arlo Perez Esquibel Benta]

More people are proud to be Coloradans than Americans, 84% or at least moderately proud to be Coloradan. Only 75% proud to be an American. And 70% of respondents across the political spectrum think Colorado has succeeded at least a fair amount to achieve its founding ideals. And one of the things people said they're proud about in Colorado, the state's natural beauty tops the list. But you can also tell that politics does play a role in some of these answers about how much pride people feel. Here's Democratic pollster Kevin Ingham with aspect Strategic.

[Mark Barnhouse]

Two thirds of conservatives express Colorado pride.

[Ryan Warner]

Meanwhile, around nine in 10 moderates, liberals

[Mark Barnhouse]

and socialists, have Colorado pride. So conservatives are much more proud to be an American. But majorities say they are proud of both. Moderates are equally proud of both, and liberals look like the inverse of conservatives.

[Arlo Perez Esquibel Benta]

So pretty telling that when you do break it down by politics, some of this pride seems to follow whether or not your personal political party that you're a member of is in power.

[Ryan Warner]

Yeah, that doesn't surprise me at all. But enough about politics. Let's talk about the thing that really matters, the food.

[Arlo Perez Esquibel Benta]

Yes, some questions about what makes Colorado distinct. And people did bring up food and produce. It basically comes down to green chili and beer. So Rocky Mountain oysters. I remember vividly one man's comment was that he hadn't had them himself, but he thinks of those as distinctly Colorado. That was up at 9%. And our friends in New Mexico will be annoyed with us now because pueblo chiles was on this list as well. Colorado produce like peaches and melons also

[Ryan Warner]

got a shout out, as did our editor's favorite food, breakfast burritos.

[Arlo Perez Esquibel Benta]

Yes, 2% of voters said it was distinctly Coloradan. I love breakfast burritos, too, but I think there'd be plenty of other states that may have serious problems if Colorado tries to lay claim to breakfast burritos.

[Ryan Warner]

Yeah, Texas and California might want to have a call. So are there other interesting answers you want to flag before I let you go?

[Arlo Perez Esquibel Benta]

As someone who's covered state government and politics for my entire career, not sure what that says about me, but I do want to give a shout out to the 91% of voters who felt that understanding how the state government works is an important characteristic of being a Coloradan. So I want to thank those voters. I'll add, though, that only 45% trust the state government to do the right thing.

[Ryan Warner]

CPR public affairs reporter Benta Birkland there and Colorado Today co host Arlo Perez Esquivel with that new survey from the Colorado Polling Institute. You know what? Bring on the letters. I think breakfast burritos belong to us. What does your name say about you? Where do you find community and what shapes your identity? Questions we'll explore at a live event next week. CPR's Nathan Fernando Freskas will lead this discussion. In 2024, he changed his name to honor both his adoption story and his Latino heritage, which had taken a backseat. Nathan hosts Voices Unbound at History Colorado center in Denver. He's invited others to share their experiences, including adoptees, refugees and immigrants. Hi, Nathan.

[Nathan Fernando Frescas]

Hi, Ryan.

[Ryan Warner]

It's been two years since you changed your name. I remember how profound that was for you and for friends like me around you. How do you feel about that decision now and what kinds of responses have you gotten?

[Nathan Fernando Frescas]

Well, you know, I still spend a lot of time thinking about being raised in a white Midwestern middle class family, as it were, the Heffel family. You know, when I was adopted in 1979, the common thinking was full assimilation, right? You're one of us. You're no different than us. Love is all we need. So it was never discussed who my birth family was. There was never talk about the language that I could learn. And so it really was I was a Hefel. I was always going to be a Heffel. And as I got older, I learned about my birth mom and my roots in El Paso, that my birth name was Fernando. It wasn't Nathan. And after sharing the story, Ryan, I heard from a lot of people who have grappled with the same questions that I have about identity and belonging.

[Ryan Warner]

This inspired the live event you'll host Wednesday. How so?

[Nathan Fernando Frescas]

Yeah, so one of those people I met is Navang Sandoval. She founded a nonprofit called Refugees and Immigrants United. And one day we just met for coffee, and we ended up chatting for hours about our stories. She is a refugee. I am an adoptee. And, well, her story seems so different from mine. On the surface, we found so many commonalities between us.

[Arlo Perez Esquibel Benta]

Here's now, I'm a Vietnamese refugee, and

[Molly Cruz]

I lived on three different refugee camps before we landed on the United States.

[Mark Barnhouse]

So I didn't even speak a word

[Arlo Perez Esquibel Benta]

of English when I arrived in this country.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

And I've been in human rights advocacy

[Molly Cruz]

for over two decades.

[Arlo Perez Esquibel Benta]

So this topic is really close to my heart.

[Nathan Fernando Frescas]

So we wanted to open up this discussion to others in the community, and we're calling the event Voices Unbounding.

[Ryan Warner]

I imagine one topic that will come up is the meaning of names. Ryan is Gaelic for little king, which just feels far too grandiose for me.

[Nathan Fernando Frescas]

But again, that is the concept that someone named you Ryan. Right. The fact that that is so much of who you are. Right. It is the thing that makes us who we are. And so with me and my connection to my name, when I was placed in the foster system and then the adoption system, my name, Fernando, my birth name, was shortened to Freddy. Then when I was adopted, it was changed to Nathan. Right. For na, teachers simply wouldn't call on her at all in class.

[Ryan Warner]

N, G A is how she spells her name.

[Nathan Fernando Frescas]

That's right. And they couldn't pronounce that, and they chose not to pronounce that. They chose not to learn how to pronounce her name. So she just went without being called on. And later in life, people asked her to come up with a more American name so it'd be easier for them to remember and pronounce it. And so many people I've spoken to since I changed my name have told me about similar experiences.

[Ryan Warner]

Yeah, that's fascinating, because I always think if you can't pronounce my name, that's a you problem, not a me problem. Who else will be part of this discussion?

[James Cavoto]

Right.

[Nathan Fernando Frescas]

There's going to be more than just Nat and I. We're gonna be speaking with state Supreme Court Justice Carlos Samor. He is an immigrant who fled El Salvador with his family when he was just 13 years old, as well as Lela Welch, an adoptee from India. There's also gonna be some dance and music performances because I think culture plays such a big part of who we are as humans as well. And we're inviting folks to come watch and maybe even share parts of their own story, too. So this is a space for all of these communities that we're going to be speaking about.

[Ryan Warner]

Thanks so much for being with us. I call you Nando now and I

[Nathan Fernando Frescas]

you approve that I very much so.

[Ryan Warner]

Thanks, Nando. Thank you, Nathan. Fernando Frescas is CPR's senior host of All Things Considered. Voices Unbound, a conversation on identity and belonging, takes place Wednesday night at History Colorado Center. Tickets and [e-mail] events. And that is Colorado Matters for now. From CPR News and krcc, I'm Ryan Warner.