June 19, 2026: Summer solstice; Denver auditor wants your input; Pardeep Toor's short stories

Summary

Colorado Matters – June 19, 2026: Summer Solstice, Denver Auditor Wants Your Input, & Pardeep Toor's Short Stories
Original Airdate: June 19, 2026
Hosts: Ryan Warner and Chandra Thomas Whitfield
Podcast: Colorado Public Radio

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Episode Overview

This episode of Colorado Matters explores three major themes: the state’s record-breaking heat and droughts, how Denver’s auditor utilizes public input to crack down on waste and inefficiency, and librarian/author Pardeep Toor’s acclaimed debut short story collection, "Hands." The show provides practical information, local insights, and a moving literary performance, tapping into the lived experiences and challenges unique to Colorado and the broader immigrant story.

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1. Weather and Climate: Colorado’s Heat, Drought, and the Science Behind It

[00:28–09:14]

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Record-Breaking Early Heat

  • Pueblo hit 106℉, breaking previous records (01:50).
  • June 11 is the historical earliest day Denver has seen triple digits; “We haven’t quite hit that mark yet” (01:54, Lisa Hidalgo).
  • Southeastern Colorado repeatedly hit triple digits mid-June; more was expected (02:14).

• Unusually Warm Nights

  • Night temperatures high—70s and 80s at 6am—where “we would typically [see] 50s” (02:36, Lisa Hidalgo).

• Historical Warmth

  • December–March: Region experienced “the warmest winter in 130 years of record keeping” with averages 10 degrees above normal (02:48).

• Hotter, Drier Months Ahead

  • Climate outlook: “Above normal conditions … It’s going to heat up even more here over the next couple of months” (03:13, Lisa Hidalgo).

• Stratospheric Intrusion & Ozone Alerts

  • Complex weather leads to “tropopause folding,” causing stratospheric air—and increased ground-level ozone—to reach the surface (03:47).
  • “That combines, and it makes [air quality] even worse” on hot, sunny days (04:24, Lisa Hidalgo).

• Drought and Snowpack Catastrophe

  • “The entire state right now under a drought” (05:38).
  • Snowpack at “11% of median … basically non existent”; Dillon Reservoir so low “the dock is basically dirt” (05:59).

• Impacts of an Early Spring Melt

  • “Mountains in this region melted out almost all of their snowpack before April 1st. So this exacerbates the problem” (06:44, John Meyer).

• Hope (and Risks) in a Super El Niño

  • El Niño may “strengthen and be strong through [the winter] … which would lead to higher snowpack for us as well” (07:16–07:45).
  • Metaphor: “I think of the globe as almost like a lava lamp … constantly trying to balance itself out” (07:56, Lisa Hidalgo).

• Snow Drought

  • “We’ve experienced a snow drought … when precipitation has fallen, [but] not been in the form of snow” (08:21).

Memorable Quotes

• “You’re my smartest speaker, Lisa.”
  – Ryan Warner, 04:43
• “You got to accentuate the positive and eliminate the negative and latch on to the affirmative.”
  – Lisa Hidalgo, singing, 08:58

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2. Civic Engagement: What Should Denver’s Auditor Investigate Next?

[09:14–21:11]

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Public Input’s Value

  • Timothy O’Brien, Denver auditor, explains how resident tips have led to real reforms, such as the audit of the “All In Mile High” homelessness initiative.
    • “They underreported some of the expenditures to the tune of $20 million.” (10:04, O’Brien)
    • “Reported back to the city council … not that there were inappropriate expenditures, just that it wasn’t transparent.” (10:38, O’Brien)
    • “They have fixed it. … Every audit we do, we follow up to see if the recommendations … are actually implemented.” (10:50, O’Brien)

• How Audit Subjects Are Chosen

  • Combination of public suggestions and official channels (mayor, city council, peer cities).
  • “350 neighborhood organization meetings … since I’ve been auditor” for public input (13:35).
  • “You only have to have one good idea to make it a worthwhile trip to the fair.” (14:45, O’Brien)
  • 80% of audit subjects come from official channels, 20% from community outreach (15:01).

• Guarding Against Personal Agendas

  • “If I hear the same thing from a lot of parts of the city … I’ll look at attaching audit resources to that.” (16:00, O’Brien)

• Major Audit Categories

  • Financial, compliance, performance, and cybersecurity audits, including use of a “certified ethical hacker” (12:17, 12:44).

• Examples of Investigations

  • Denver International Airport: “82 million people went through that airport in 2025 … shuttle bus service, parking, the concessionaires, landing fees, gate fees, all of that we’re looking at.” (16:34–17:03)
  • Caring for Denver mental health/substance program and the handling of expense reimbursement (“$3,000 on alcohol alone”) (17:03, Ryan Warner/Jack Blumenthal).

• Effectiveness and Accountability

  • “The auditor does not have enforcement power … probably the power of the bully pulpit … being convincing that the issues we bring to the surface need to be dealt with.” (18:46, O’Brien)
  • Auditor’s office is itself audited every three years by a team from the Association of Local Government Auditors, always receiving a “clean report.” (19:18)

Memorable Quotes

• “I think you’re profoundly a nerd, Timothy. Thanks for nerding out with us.”
  – Ryan Warner, 21:04

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3. Literature: Hands by Pardeep Toor—Immigrant Stories & Short Story Craft

[22:21–48:06]

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Introduction to Hands

  • Author Pardeep Toor: Six interlinked stories about Hans, an immigrant navigating the American dream (22:36).
  • “The American dream doesn’t always work out. It’s not inevitable, especially as a South Asian … Hans exemplifies some nuance in that, that it’s never been harder to make it here.” (22:36, Toor)

• Personal Roots and Inspiration

  • Toor’s parents emigrated from Punjab, India, working blue-collar jobs in Toronto and the U.S. (23:44).
  • “The notion of being able to live a middle class life with someone delivering food is almost unfathomable right now, for sure.” (24:29, Warner)

• Themes of Visibility and Invisibility

  • Immigrants “kind of become invisible to our lives … there’s elements of invisibility where Hans is sort of guiding these folks around, not participating, but then also participating in a very meaningful and harmful way, despite his best intentions.” (25:10, Toor)

Memorable Read-Aloud: “Taxi”

[25:35–37:03]

• Hans, a taxi driver, deals with a mother and son bickering over destinations, hunger, cigarettes, and discipline.
• Hans sympathetically gives the boy money for chips, but also hides the boy’s jacket—“He needed the jacket more than the boy needed waffles. Hans hoped one day the boy would understand.” (approx. 36:40)

Notable Excerpt

• “In doing that, they kind of become invisible to our lives.”
  – Pardeep Toor, 25:04

Post-Reading Conversation: Writing Craft and Identity

[38:25–47:56]

• Ambiguity in Short Stories

  • Short stories offer “a quick glimpse of their life with almost no context … the ambiguity is intentional.” (38:25–38:43, Warner/Toor)
  • Hans is written as both sympathetic and self-serving; “He kind of keeps getting in his own way. … His need always comes before the needs of those around him.” (39:23, Toor)

• Origins & Writing Process

  • Stories arise from “a moment … then I write the story around it.” (40:49, Toor)
  • The title "Hands" plays on the mispronunciation of Hans’ name, symbolizing immigrant experience and misunderstanding (41:05).

• Names, Assimilation, and Adult Identity

  • Toor was called “Perry” growing up to fit in; reverting to “Pardeep” marks his adulthood and writing career (42:16–43:51).
  • “It was already the color of our skin, our religion, and it was like one more thing where if they can be avoided … As you get older … you’re like, whoa, that’s kind of weird.” (43:03, Toor)

• Cultural Representation

  • Hans as a Punjabi name, but with enough ambiguity to transcend specificity; “I didn’t want to get into cultural specifics … but loosely documenting the South Asian experience.” (45:03, Toor)

• Future Writing

  • Toor is drafting a novel where Hans is a secondary character, drawing world-building from both works (45:53–46:34).

• Against ‘Self-Actualization Myths’

  • “There’s this myth in American literature about the self-actualization story … it’s messier. And this collection isn’t simple. It’s nuanced.” (47:12–47:56, Toor)

Standout Quotes

• “I reverted back [to my real name] because I felt like my real name should be on my writing. But some folks don’t revert back and … keep the names that they have.”
  – Pardeep Toor, 44:42

• “[Life] is way messier.”
  – Pardeep Toor, 47:54

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Notable Moments (w/ Timestamps)

• Record Pueblo high of 106℉ [01:50]
• Stratospheric intrusion explained [03:47]
• Full-state drought revealed [05:38]
• El Niño and lava lamp metaphor [07:56]
• Denver auditor recounts $20M untracked in homelessness initiative [10:04]
• Caring for Denver audit, $3,000 on alcohol [17:03]
• Pardeep Toor’s insight on immigrant hustle and American dream’s difficulty [22:36]
• Literary reading of "Taxi" [25:35–37:03]
• Ambiguity and “messiness” in short stories/life [39:23, 47:54]

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Conclusion

This episode weaves together practical, political, and literary lenses to reflect the complex Colorado experience—from climate realities and civic engagement to identity and story. Both the data-driven and the deeply personal are center stage, painting a rich, sometimes uncomfortable picture of life and hope on the Front Range.

Transcript

[Lisa Hidalgo]

Each story you hear on Planet Money

[Pardeep Toor]

starts with a what happens if we refund tariffs? Why are groceries so expensive?

[Lisa Hidalgo]

At NPR, we stand for your right to be curious because the forces shaping

[Pardeep Toor]

our world can be hard to see.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

Follow NPR's Planet Money wherever you get your podcasts and start seeing how the economy really works.

[Ryan Warner]

Lava lamps and ants. We conjure up some strange metaphors in our regular weather and climate chat. Then what should Denver's auditor scrutinize next? He's asking the public whose suggestions have paid off in the past.

[Timothy O'Brien]

There wasn't really much of a plan at the front end of this initiative and the financial record keeping was a little on the sloppy side, I would say.

[Ryan Warner]

Later, librarian and short story writer Pardeep Toor, his new collection posits, what if the American dream doesn't work out?

[Pardeep Toor]

It's not inevitable, especially as a South Asian. You know, sometimes there's information about like, oh, they're the model minority, like their success is inevitable. And I think Hans exemplifies some nuance in that, that it's never been harder to make it here.

[Ryan Warner]

This is Colorado Matters from CPR News and krcc. I'm Ryan Warner. Mid June and Colorado's flirting with three digit temperatures. Is the heat here to stay? Going to ask Chief Meteorologist at Denver7 Lisa Hidalgo. We chat monthly about weather and climate here. Hi, Lisa.

[Timothy O'Brien]

Hi.

[Ryan Warner]

Put the recent temperatures into context. I know that we broke a record in southern Colorado.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

Yeah. In fact, on Wednesday we hit 106 in Pueblo. It beat the record high of 103. Not abnormal for southern Colorado. I mean, that would be a little early to be getting triple digit heat in Denver. But June 11th is actually the earliest that we've ever seen a triple digit day in Denver. We haven't quite hit that mark yet. So we've got some time to go.

[Ryan Warner]

It's been hotter earlier in metro Denver than this year.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

Exactly. But you're right, parts of southeastern Colorado, I mean, they were well into the triple digits midweek and more to come likely on Saturday.

[Ryan Warner]

One strange thing that happened this week, it was I think the warmest day of the week, which was Wednesday. The morning when I woke up did not seem to provide any relief.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

It was one of those weird mornings when you step outside and you think it's dark. But what time really is it? Because I mean, we were talking 70s and even 80s at about 6 o' clock in the morning, which we would typically this time of year be more so in the 50s.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay. That's a discussion of weather, the immediate, the local. But this is part of a pattern. Temperatures December to March were 10 degrees above normal across Utah, Colorado, Wyoming. Our region saw the warmest winter in 130 years of record keeping. Anything cooler on the horizon?

[Lisa Hidalgo]

No, you know, I was just looking at some of the climate prediction centers outlooks for the next one to three months and in both cases it looks like we're going to be under some above normal conditions. So temperature wise I think it is, it's going to heat up even more here over the next couple of months.

[Ryan Warner]

Air quality has been less than stellar. I don't know if this is still the phenomenon, but apparently earlier this was due to a stratospheric intrusion. I think I've been that at parties stratospheric intrusion. Will you unpack that for us as it relates especially to ground level ozone?

[Lisa Hidalgo]

I have been at parties with you. That is accurate. You are, you know, this time of year you'll see issue ozone action day alerts or we'll talk about them on air. So what happens is on some of these days you get weather phenomena which will create what's called a tropopause folding. We're right now in the troposphere where all of our weather occurs this ground level and then you get to the stratosphere and what happens is with certain weather phenomenon it will almost drag that down to ground level. So we get some higher concentrations. Obviously becomes unhealthy for some of the sensitive groups and so very typical this time of year.

[Ryan Warner]

Made worse if there is the burning of fossil fuels at the height of

[Lisa Hidalgo]

the heat in the sunny hot days. Exactly. That combines and it makes it even worse.

[Ryan Warner]

I had no idea that on ozone alert or action days we were pulling something from higher up down to us lowly little ants.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

Well, that's why I'm here, is to teach you something, Ryan.

[Ryan Warner]

I do feel like I'm being bounced back and forth between air quality alerts and and fire weather alerts. You know, I wake up, ask my smart speaker. You know, you're my smartest speaker, Lisa. But I do feel sort of bandied about.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

I mean it's kind of that time of year and I think we're just so. Our awareness is so heightened when it comes to wildfires now that we do have to look at it seriously each and every day. And the state can be so different. I mean you could be looking at chilly wet conditions on the eastern plains and hot dry weather on the western half of the state. So I feel like we're Always at point, some focused on at least one corner of the state. When it comes to some wild weather,

[Ryan Warner]

isn't the official start of summer. Isn't it nigh? Nigh? No, close. That's like Shakespearean for close.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

It is nigh. In fact, on Sunday, 2:24am It'll officially be summer with the summer solstice.

[Ryan Warner]

The drought map. Ugly. Ooh, it's ugly.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

It's bad. So it is released every Thursday. A week ago we had one tiny little pocket on the far eastern plains which was drought free. That section's now gone colored in the entire state right now under a drought.

[Ryan Warner]

And if you look at another map, and that is the snowpack map, there is often equally distributed ugliness.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

I mean, it's basically non existent at this point. We would, you know, as we get into mid to late June, really stop talking about snowpack because we would have been past some of our peaks there. But I mean the number's been abysmal. I mean, I think we're talking now 11% of median. And it's just been awful. I was just up actually at the Dillon Reservoir. Wow. The boats are off the water. They can't be in the water because the dock is basically dirt right now and they're all up on the side. It's wild to see and people walking around there and through the bed and it's a little scary.

[Ryan Warner]

Related to this, I want to dip into a recent press conference where these words stood out from a state climatologist next door in Utah. This is John Meyer.

[Pardeep Toor]

This year, because we had such a

[Timothy O'Brien]

warm March, rivers all the way around

[Pardeep Toor]

the region were experiencing peak stream flow way early. The mountains in this region melted out

[Timothy O'Brien]

almost all of their snowpack before April 1st. So this sort of exacerbates the problem,

[Pardeep Toor]

having not a lot of volume but

[Timothy O'Brien]

also arriving very early.

[Pardeep Toor]

And that exacerbates the water management side of the equation.

[Ryan Warner]

Super El Nino, though, is in the discussions right now. That sounds like a comic book crime fighter. Super El Nino. But a lot of folks are putting hopes on the moisture that it might bring.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

It looks good. I mean, I was just looking at some of the most recent ENSO data and.

[Ryan Warner]

Wait, what's enso?

[Lisa Hidalgo]

El Nino, Southern Oscillation. We're in an El Nino as we speak, but at this point it looks like it's going to continue to strengthen over the next few months and then strengthen even more so as we get into the winter months. Now keep in mind what this could lead to is more of an intense monsoon. Season for us, which would lead to some heavier rains potentially definitely helping out some of those reservoirs and then getting into the winter months, it looks like more than a 90% chance that it's going to strengthen and be strong through there, which would lead to higher snowpack for us as well. It also, though, leads to other problems across the world. You have to remember I think of our weather patterns and I think of the globe as almost like a lava lamp. Can we go back to the 70s, like a lava lamp, where it's constantly trying to balance itself out? So for some, this could be great. Others, that could lead to really higher heat and even more drought conditions.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay, so El Nino would not only speak to the potential for rain in monsoon, but decent snows in winter.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

Exactly. Some heavier snows for portions of the state, which would obviously give us the exact opposite of what we just had.

[Ryan Warner]

Right. By the way, this is a separate concept from just plain drought. But we've experienced a snow drought. That is when precipitation has fallen. It's not been in the form of snow.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

And we'll talk about, quote, a snow drought in regions where that's important. I mean, obviously they're not going to talk about a snow drought in Texas, but for communities and for regions that rely on snow to fill the rivers, fill the reservoirs, fill the groundwater, that's where that term comes in.

[Ryan Warner]

All right. I'm going to choose to focus on the positive and eliminate the negative. Thank you so much. Lisa Hidalgo, always a pleasure.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

You got to accentuate the positive and eliminate the negative and latch on to the affirmative. But don't mess with mystery in between. Ah, you got to.

[Ryan Warner]

Lisa Hidalgo is Chief Meteorologist at Denver7. We chat monthly about weather and climate. And we'll be right back with Denver's leading watchdog, who has a request for you. This is Colorado Matters from CPR News. It's Colorado Matters from CPR News. I'm Ryan Warner. Denver's financial watchdog takes suggestions. Auditor Timothy o' Brien is asking, what should we look into next? That piqued our curiosity. So did the fact that previous audits indeed came about because of resident recommendations. An auditor welcome to the program.

[Timothy O'Brien]

Good afternoon.

[Ryan Warner]

This sounds like a fishing expedition, but you've indeed gotten some pretty important bites casting your net across the city. Will you give us an example?

[Timothy O'Brien]

Well, I think a recent audit that came about through citizens and through the city council and through others was an audit of all in Mile High, which is the Denver Mayor's Initiative on the homeless. What we found there was that there wasn't really much of a plan at the beginning, at the front end of this initiative. And the financial record keeping was a little on the sloppy side, I would say. They underreported some of the expenditures to the tune of $20 million.

[Ryan Warner]

Oh, my goodness.

[Timothy O'Brien]

And when I say reported, I mean reported back to the city council. That doesn't mean that there were inappropriate

[Ryan Warner]

expenditures, just that it wasn't transparent.

[Timothy O'Brien]

Was not transparent. Correct.

[Ryan Warner]

Did they fix it?

[Timothy O'Brien]

They have fixed it. And we will know more when we do a follow up audit. Every audit we do, we follow up to see if the recommendations that were agreed to are actually implemented. So we'll know much more about the record keeping then.

[Ryan Warner]

Fascinating to me that that was a combination of interest from city council and that that bubbled up from the community as well. What was it that you were hearing from folks in Denver that confirmed this was perhaps something to look into?

[Timothy O'Brien]

I think the concern was people wanted to make sure that the services they received as taxpayers, as citizens, weren't being cut back in order to provide services to the homeless. And I don't believe they were. I mean, services in Denver right now are stretched a bit because the budget is tight.

[Ryan Warner]

Indeed. So is the bulk of what you do. Financial inquiry.

[Timothy O'Brien]

We do a number of different audits. We do what are called compliance audits. We do what are called performance audits. And that's where we really look to see are the objectives that are laid out, whether it's in code or whether it's in the budget. Are those objectives being achieved? And if not, why not? We make recommendations to improve that.

[Ryan Warner]

So it's qualitative, not just quantitative.

[Timothy O'Brien]

Correct.

[Ryan Warner]

Yeah.

[Timothy O'Brien]

We also do a lot of cybersecurity audits for the listeners out there. We don't publish those publicly because that would show the hacker where, look, vulnerability, if there was a soft spot. Correct.

[Ryan Warner]

Does that mean that you play as auditor, the malicious malware spy type, and look for vulnerabilities?

[Timothy O'Brien]

Absolutely. And we look for vulnerabilities and you play the hacker. We have a gentleman that is a certified ethical hacker.

[Ryan Warner]

On staff?

[Timothy O'Brien]

Not on staff, but we contract with them.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay. I'm learning things left and right here. You've taken this message of, you know, what should we look at next on the road? A Cinco de Mayo event, for instance. Is that fruitful? I mean, I can't imagine going to a fair or something ready to spill my guts about trash collection. But you get ideas on the ground that way.

[Timothy O'Brien]

We do get ideas on the ground. First the auditor is required to produce an audit plan by the third Monday in October for the upcoming calendar year.

[Ryan Warner]

So you have to announce what you'll be looking into.

[Timothy O'Brien]

Correct.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay.

[Timothy O'Brien]

And in order to do that, we. We are always gathering information about what risk might be present to the city that would inhibit the city from achieving certain goals and objectives. We interview the mayor, we interview members of the city council, we interview members of the mayor's cabinet. I go to a number of registered neighborhood organization meetings. I've been to over 350 since I've been auditor. Get input from the public there. And we also know what's going on in other municipalities around the country that we consider our peers. There's an association that we participate in

[Ryan Warner]

and must be a fount of ideas.

[Timothy O'Brien]

Yes, exactly. So we start pulling it together, say, the end of August, so we can have the report ready by October. At the end of the process, ultimately, it's the auditor's decision as to what gets audited and what does not get audited.

[Ryan Warner]

And the timing here then is that you will take in this public input. But does going to a fair yield ideas or is that just being.

[Timothy O'Brien]

You only have to have one good idea to make it a worthwhile trip to the fair.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay, one worthwhile idea. What would you say is the ratio of audits initiated through official channels versus community outreach?

[Timothy O'Brien]

Oh, I would say for 20, 26, 80% came through official channels rather than community input. But we are posting on social media, throwing the idea out there. I think the people in Denver know what services they want to get and they know whether they're getting them or not. And that's what we want to hear from people about.

[Ryan Warner]

Yeah. Where is the city perhaps falling short for you? I mean, that's intrinsic to the question, is it not?

[Timothy O'Brien]

Correct. Yeah.

[Ryan Warner]

How, though, do you avoid people with an axe to grind?

[Timothy O'Brien]

Well, you can't avoid them. They're out there all the time.

[Ryan Warner]

But, you know, when it comes to separating the wheat from the chaff and getting that agenda down, you know what your year of audits will look like. What do you look for to make sure that it isn't that someone has a chip on their shoulder?

[Timothy O'Brien]

Well, I'm not going to do an audit because somebody sends me an email. I'm not going to do an audit because somebody posts something on Facebook or some other social media. If I hear the same thing from a lot of parts of the city and county of Denver, I'll look at attaching audit resources to that. But some of the things we look at are certainly dollars spent that's a big one. Contact with the public. That's a big one. I mean, we're out at the airport all the time auditing at the airport. And there were 82 million people that went through that airport in 2025.

[Ryan Warner]

That's very naturally a place where a city enterprise is engaging with a huge number of people.

[Timothy O'Brien]

That is correct.

[Ryan Warner]

And dollars.

[Timothy O'Brien]

And that's what we're looking at are the enterprise activities out there, whether it's the shuttle bus service, the parking, the concessionaires, landing fees, gate fees, all of that we're looking at.

[Ryan Warner]

These aren't exactly tax dollars, but they are things that you pay when you buy a ticket or a Cinnabon.

[Timothy O'Brien]

They're public dollars. There's no question in my mind about that.

[Ryan Warner]

Naturally, there's friction between auditor and audited. You looked into Caring for Denver, as CPR News has it works on mental health and substance abuse. They say they reach thousands of people thanks to tens of millions of dollars from the city. In February, they appeared before your audit committee. One executive ostensibly spent as much as $3,000 on alcohol alone over the course of 75 meals. Let's listen to this exchange.

[Timothy O'Brien]

I guess my question is, having spent that money, do you feel perhaps that the organization ought to get reimbursed for what? Just absolutely didn't follow any kind of common sense. What the city regulations. In other words, I'm not talking about going forward. I'm talking about asking for the money back just like any business would do somebody. How do you feel about that? I appreciate that question.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

What I'll say again is the policies we had in.

[Timothy O'Brien]

No, I didn't ask you that. I'm asking you, do you feel that it's appropriate for you to reimburse the agency for the money that was spent? It's a very simple yes or no.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

I would say no.

[Ryan Warner]

Jack Blumenthal, a member of your audit committee doing the grilling there, what teeth do you have to force change? You talked about being able to do a follow up audit based on the questions raised in the initial one. But you're not exactly a law enforcement officer.

[Timothy O'Brien]

The auditor does not have enforcement power at all. Probably the power of the bully pulpit is part of it. The follow up process is part of it. But I think most important it's being convincing that the issues that we bring to the surface need to be dealt with and should be dealt with. And I know in Caring for Denver case they have made some policy changes that will prohibit people from being reimbursed for alcohol and things like that.

[Ryan Warner]

Is the auditor's office ever audited?

[Timothy O'Brien]

Yeah, we get audited every three years, as a matter of fact.

[Ryan Warner]

Who does that?

[Timothy O'Brien]

Well, there's a team of people from what is called the association of Local Government Auditors. There'll be an auditor, say, from Kansas City, an auditor from San Diego, an auditor from Portland, maybe five altogether. And they come in and they take a look at the work that we have done. They'll sample a few audit reports, and they'll say, all right, does the work that you have done support what's in this audit report and, at least under

[Ryan Warner]

my tenure, show your work?

[Timothy O'Brien]

Right. And I think under my tenure, we have always gotten what's called a clean opinion, a clean report on that. But I think it's important for the public to know that the auditor doesn't start with the answer and ask the staff to go out and collect information to support the answer. We start at the front end and we work towards whatever the answer might be.

[Ryan Warner]

Doesn't that mean you have to be good at changing your preconceived notions?

[Timothy O'Brien]

I think you have to be independent. I think you have to be objective. And that's what the audit standards that we adhere to call for.

[Ryan Warner]

When are you up for reelection?

[Timothy O'Brien]

I am. Term limited, and I will be out of office in 13 months.

[Ryan Warner]

Not that you're counting. Not that you're counting. Tim, thank you so much for being with us.

[Timothy O'Brien]

Well, thank you. If I could say yes, please. I have enjoyed this job tremendously, and I've got the best people in the country working in the auditor's office today. That's what makes it so much fun. That's what I'll miss about this job. Fun? Yes. I enjoy it. Yeah. The people that I work with, I enjoy working with.

[Ryan Warner]

I think you're profoundly a nerd, Timothy. Thanks for nerding out with us.

[Timothy O'Brien]

Thank you.

[Ryan Warner]

Denver Auditor Timothy O' Brien wants your ideas. Email auditorenvergov.org through the end of the month. You can also comment on his office's social media posts or catch up with them at community events. And Colorado Matters continues in the next half hour with a librarian who might just find his own book on the shelves. I'm Ryan Warner. You're with CPR News and krcc. This is Colorado Matters from CPR News and krcc. I'm Ryan Warner. When you grow up, people don't read aloud to you as much. That changes. Today, Broomfield author Pardeep Toor agreed to read from his new short story collection, Hands it's his literary debut. Tour chose the piece titled Taxi.

[Pardeep Toor]

It's about a taxi fare. Essentially, you know, the main character, Hans, is giving a ride, as taxi fares are, to a mother and a son, and things just sort of go from

[Ryan Warner]

there and tell us about the driver here. Tell us about Hans.

[Pardeep Toor]

Yeah, so Hans is the main character in my short story collection. It's six interlinked stories all center around Hans. You know, he's an immigrant trying to make it in America. You know, he sort of exemplifies sort of this all American hustle, but also that the American dream doesn't always work out. It's not inevitable, especially as a South Asian. You know, sometimes there's. There's information about like, oh, they're the model minority, like their success is inevitable. And I think Hans exemplifies some nuance in that, that it's never been harder to make it here. And it's not inevitable, it's not guaranteed. Despite his best hustles.

[Ryan Warner]

Is part of this about relieving yourself of some of the expectation that's been on you?

[Pardeep Toor]

Oh, that's interesting. So I'm not Hans, so I will start by saying that the author is not the narrator or any of the characters. I think it's more a reflection of my upbringing. I was brought up in a very blue collar family. Neither of my parents went to college. Neither of you know, they immigrated here and just worked the most blue collar jobs possible and often multiple jobs.

[Ryan Warner]

And where did they hail from?

[Pardeep Toor]

Punjab, India.

[Ryan Warner]

In Punjab, yeah.

[Pardeep Toor]

So northwest India. Then they immigrated to the suburbs of Toronto and then eventually the States. So, you know, my dad worked in a factory his whole life. He delivered pizzas for in the evenings. You know, he's only home two days a week in the evenings. And that wasn't out of neglect. It was out of necessity to try to make ends meet. And, you know, I think my parents, you know, immigrating in the 70s and then living through the 80s and 90s, you know, they were able to build a very middle class life from this labor. But I think Hans is an example of like, despite the effort, despite the labor, despite the best intentions, that it's still not enough. And I really do feel that's a reflection of the immigrant struggle now in America, definitely, but also the working struggle.

[Ryan Warner]

I mean, the notion of being able to live a middle class life with someone delivering food is almost unfathomable right now, for sure.

[Pardeep Toor]

I mean, they don't even call it a job anymore. What do they call it? The gig?

[Ryan Warner]

The gig economy.

[Pardeep Toor]

Now it's, you know, tell that to my dad.

[Ryan Warner]

You know, very naturally. Before you read the story, I see a parallel between the idea of delivering pizzas and of delivering people as a taxi driver. Is that a fair comparison to make? Is that accidental?

[Pardeep Toor]

No, no, it's not accidental. And I think it's indicative of how immigrants sort of become the middle people. Sometimes they're the ones driving the taxis, they're the ones delivering food. In doing that, they kind of become invisible to our lives. Right.

[Ryan Warner]

And invisibility in this story?

[Pardeep Toor]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's. There's elements of invisibility where Hans is sort of guiding these folks around, not participating, but then also participating in a very meaningful and harmful way despite his best intentions.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay, without further ado, Pardeep, you've set it up beautifully. We have to hear this story.

[Pardeep Toor]

Where do you want to go? The woman said, poking the boy in the arm. Burger World, he said. Not Burger World, she said. Let's go to Joe's Tacos. But I want Burger World. But mom wants tacos, so we're going to Joe's, the woman said. Hans glanced at the boy and then the woman. So? Hans said, you do what I say and I say Joe's, the woman said. Hans looked at the boy one more time. Why are you looking at him? I'm the one paying you. I'm sorry, ma', am, hans said. Hans started the meter and shifted the car into drive. The boy pulled out a plastic handheld game from his jacket pocket. A maze with a small silver marble inside. He gently maneuvered his hands to guide the marble to the hole in the center. Hans stopped at a red light. Can I smoke in the car? The woman said. No problem, hans said. Hans had smoked his last cigarette the previous summer on a riverbank about 20 miles west of the city. Even in the summer, the river was cold. Hans remembered the taste in his mouth from the last cigarette. He had accidentally put the lit side in his mouth. The butt left a permanent burn mark on the inside of his lips. It was the last time he had smoked or visited the river. Hans turned to the boy, who didn't look up from his pocket game. Do you have a light? The woman said. Hans pretended to check his pockets. He opened the glove compartment in front of the boy's feet and tried to quickly close it before the gun fell out. A book dropped on the boy's feet. The boy picked it up. On the COVID was an illustration of a man and a woman, their bodies entangled. The title of the book was Pleasurable positions. Hans grabbed the book and put it under his thigh. Hans looked back at the woman. She kicked Hans's seat while shuffling her legs side to side. Hans searched the compartment underneath the radio but couldn't find a lighter. I don't have one, hans said. I don't smoke anymore. Why did you stop smoking? The boy said. Health reasons, hans said. There's nothing wrong with my health, the woman said. The boy put the handheld game in his pocket and wiped his nose with his jacket sleeve. His shirt was too small for him. His wrists were exposed to the cold. His pants were stained with mud at the knees and around the ankles. Hans turned the heat up. Pull over here at Mario's store. I need a lighter, the woman said. Where Mario's? Right here. You're passing it. Turn, the woman said. The car slid on the ice as Han stopped in the middle of the turning lane. He looked in both directions but didn't see Mario's cars were honking at him. Mario's is on the next block, mom, the boy said. Keep going, mister. The woman leaned forward in her seat. She placed a cigarette in her mouth and twirled another one in her fingers. Don't you dare talk to me like that again, she said. I didn't say anything, the boy said. Like that. Just like that. Don't do it. Hans inhaled the anticipated stench from the burning cigarette. He swallowed his built up saliva and began to whistle in the car to mimic the act of blowing smoke through his lips. He merged with traffic and drove slowly to the next block. Did you use the patch, mister? The boy said. What? Hans said. The cigarette patch. To quit smoking. No, I quit on my own, Hans said. My sister helped me. She rubbed my legs with oils all night when I was in withdrawal. Why doesn't your sister help us, Mom? The boy said. We don't need anyone's help, she said. They might have a lighter over there, Hans said. He pointed to the store at the corner of the next intersection. The building's white side panels were stained with streaks of rust from the leaky gutters. A small handwritten sign in the window said Dollar Palace. That's Mario's, the woman said. It says Dollar Palace. Hans says it's Mario's, the boy said. The woman opened the car door before Hans finished parking and stepped into a puddle. She knocked on Hans window. He rolled it down. Do you want something? A bag of chips, she said. No, thank you, Hans said. Can I have a bag of chips? The boy said. Do you have any money? No, the boy said. Then the answer is no. The meter is running, Hans called after the woman as she walked away from the car. Hans looked at the boy. The boy stared back. What's in that book? The boy said. What book? The one under your leg. It's not mine. It's my partner Kanti's. What's in it? I don't know. Is it sex? Hans shrugged. My brother told me about that stuff, the boy said. I haven't read it. Hans said. You're lying. How do you know? My mom is a liar. I know liars. Hans reached into his pocket and pulled out a dollar bill.

[Timothy O'Brien]

Here.

[Pardeep Toor]

Go get yourself a bag of chips. The boy took the dollar and opened the door. He threw his jacket on the seat and sprinted into Mario's. Hans felt sorry for the boy. He was a child. He was hungry. Hans hit the buttons on the meter to try to stop the red analog numbers from ticking up, but the meter couldn't be paused. Hans turned on the radio, scanned the stations, and then turned it off. Feeling claustrophobic, he rolled down his window, stuck his head out, and took a deep breath. The wind stung his gums and cheeks. The cab smelled like cigarette smoke. He searched for an air freshener under the seat but couldn't find one. He scanned the COVID of the book and then put it back in the glove compartment. Hans rested his head on his window and tapped his feet to the music that was no longer playing. The salt and slush under his shoes swished from one side of the mat to the other. The door to Mario's opened and closed several times, but the woman and boy were nowhere to be seen. He saw more people exit Mario's than he'd seen enter. Hans lifted the boy's jacket off the seat. It reeked of smoke. He put it down. He picked it up again. He closed his eyes and looked away from the jacket. As he squeezed it in his hand. The fabric made a squishing noise in his fist. He looked at the door to Mario's again. He lowered himself in his seat and pulled the jacket to his face. Hans inhaled the burnt, smoky smell. He swirled his tongue on the inner fleece lining of the jacket. The putrid smell and taste of the fabric invigorated him like a cup of coffee in the morning. Hans chest shook. He sat up and saw the door to Mario's open. The woman and the boy were yelling at each other. Each carried a small bag of chips. Hans stuffed the jacket in the glove compartment on top of the sex book. The woman and the boy got back into the car. Off to Burger World now, the woman said. Hans waited for their doors to close. I thought we were going to Joe's Tacos, he said. I want Burger World, the woman said. She held a cigarette in her lips and rolled down her window. You said Joe's before, the boys said. What did I tell you about talking back to me? You said Joe's. I said Burger World, the woman said. Burger World, then Hans said. I guess, the boy said. The woman shifted forward to the edge of the seat until she was face to face with the boy. She grabbed the front of the boy's shirt. I warned you about this, she said. I warned you about talking so much. She let go of his shirt and slapped his chest softly three times. Turn this car around right now, the woman said. We're going home, Mom. I didn't say anything, the boy said. Hans looked down to see a cigarette in the cup holder between the two front seats. It must have fallen out of her mouth. We're going home, she said. Mom, please. Home. Hans put the car in drive and headed toward the lime green house. The boy put his head in his hands. Don't cry, the woman said. I'm not crying. I didn't teach you to cry. You always do this. Do what? The woman said. What am I doing? Nothing, the boy said. That's what I thought. They drove the rest of the way in silence. Hans sped up at yellow lights and rolled through stop signs. He parked in front of the house and stopped the meter. I didn't tell you to stop that meter, the woman said. We're home, hans said. You wait here. Keep that meter going. The woman and the boy exited the car and silently walked into the house. Hans gently picked up the cigarette from the cup holder. He was careful not to squeeze it between his thumb and index finger. The integrity of the shape was important. He examined it carefully from all angles. He sniffed it from one side to the other. He placed it in the glove compartment beside the boy's jacket. He licked his thumb and index finger. The taste of tobacco made him salivate. The woman and the boy stepped out of the house. They both got in the back seat this time. Hans looked at himself in the rearview mirror. His cheeks were red. Flakes of dry skin smothered his chin. We decided on Waffle Place, the woman said. I'm getting the Mega Meal, the boy said. Hans began driving toward Waffle Place. It was on the other side of town, in the opposite direction of Joe's Tacos and Burger World. Hans looked in the rearview mirror. The woman and the boy were cuddled up together. The boy smiled each time the woman tickled his arm. Hans turned on the radio. The boy stood in his seat and started dancing to the song. Put your seatbelt on, the woman said. She pulled the boy closer and sat him down in the seat. She buckled the middle seatbelt around his waist and put her arms around his shoulders. Her fingers tapped his elbow to the rhythm of the song. Hans stopped at a red light two blocks short of Waffle Place. Are you okay with the temperature? He said. I'm cold, the boy said. Hans directed the vents toward them and turned up the heat. It will take a minute, hans said. Where's your jacket? The woman said. The boy clutched his arms. I don't know, he said. The woman leaned forward and felt around the front seat. What's wrong? Hans said. Have you seen his jacket? What color was it? The woman turned to the boy. Answer the man. Blue, the boy said. Are you sure you brought it in the cab? Hans said. It's my favorite jacket, the boy said. The woman looked around the back seat. It's not here, she said. Stand up. The boy struggled with the seat belt. The woman grabbed it from his hands and unbuckled it. You hurt my hand, the boy said. Maybe you left it at the house, hans said. Stand up, the woman said. The boy stood in the seat, curving his neck to avoid the ceiling of the car. He stumbled forward in the seat when Hans stopped at the light. Where's the jacket? The woman said. I don't know, the boy said. Hans reached for the meter on the dashboard. He nudged the glove compartment closed again. We're here, hans said. Who told you to turn the meter off? The woman said. Turn it on. Why? Hans said. Start it again. We're going home. I want Waffle Place, the boy said. You're not getting anything until we find your jacket. Han circled the parking lot and turned back toward the lime green house. He looked in the rearview mirror. The woman was mumbling to herself loud enough for the boy to hear. The boy was crying. He made eye contact with Hans through the mirror. Hans focused on the road ahead. The boy stared at Hans every time he glanced at the rearview mirror. Drive faster. Stop milking the meter, the woman said. Hans drove faster. He needed the jacket more than the boy needed waffles. Hans hoped one day the boy would understand.

[Ryan Warner]

Taxi. From the short story collection Hands. We'll chat more about it with author Pardeep Toor after a break. This is Colorado Matters from CPR News. You're with Colorado Matters from cpr News. I'm Ryan Warner, librarian. Pardeep Tour of Broomfield is celebrating his literary debut. His new collection of short stories is called Hands. Before the break, he read from the piece Taxi. I had a few lingering questions. I think what sticks with me about this story is if you are in the position to drive someone from point A to point B or maybe to deliver their meals, you get this quick glimpse of their life with almost no context. And I have so many questions about this seemingly abusive mother, her loving, maybe temperamental child. Maybe they have questions about Hans and the gun in the glove compartment, the relationship to smoking. But no one actually gets any of these questions answered in these quick pairing ups, you know, pairings up.

[Pardeep Toor]

Yeah, I think that's the beauty of the short story. You're kind of dropped in. You know, you're dropped into this one scene in this one moment of life for all three of these characters, and you're.

[Ryan Warner]

It's both a literal short story in that this is part of a short story collection, but that is the experience of people in these roles.

[Pardeep Toor]

Right, right. And there's ambiguity there, but the ambiguity is intentional. Okay, Hans is driving the taxi. What's his origin story? How did he get here? Like, he doesn't seem to be very aware of what it's like to drive a taxi.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

Right.

[Pardeep Toor]

And then the same with the boy and his mom. You know, they really want to eat something. They can't seem to decide.

[Ryan Warner]

I'm so hungry for them. Get to the restaurant already.

[Pardeep Toor]

Exactly. And then it's just hard. Everything for everyone is hard. Making decisions is hard. You know, Hans is trying his best. He wants to stop the meter. You know, he's sympathetic to their struggle to find something. But he. He also still can't get over himself and serving his own needs at the same time.

[Ryan Warner]

Yeah, his needs, I guess, for the smell of cigarettes. So profound, he would steal a child's jacket.

[Pardeep Toor]

Yeah, and it's probably a metaphor for something larger in the collection. I mean, I see Hans as someone who's really trying to get better. You know, he's really trying to do the right thing. He's trying to say the right thing to his taxi fares. You know, he's trying to take them to the right place, but he kind of keeps getting in his own way. And I would say that's a theme of the entire collection, that his need always come before the needs of those around him.

[Ryan Warner]

When you write a collection of short stories, do you define for yourself short? Like you say, this can't be over

[Pardeep Toor]

15 pages not exactly. I mean, I write short in general. Sometimes too short, I think. But for me, how I write a short story is I'm always thinking a moment will come to me. So, for example, the first short story in this collection called Gatsby, there's a scene where Hans and Kanti are in the basement watching old wrestling matches, and they discover adult magazines for the first time. Like a very early 90s scene may or may not have been the story of my life, but that's up to the readers to decide.

[Ryan Warner]

So these are two young friends at this point?

[Pardeep Toor]

Exactly.

[Ryan Warner]

Adolescence, maybe.

[Pardeep Toor]

Yeah. Preceding this story. So before this story. And so I had that moment, I had that scene. And then I write the story around it.

[Ryan Warner]

That nugget.

[Pardeep Toor]

That nugget, exactly. So I don't really think about length. I think, okay, how do I get them in this basement? And then how do I get them out of the basement? And most of the stories in this collection originated from this singular moment. And then I write them in both directions.

[Ryan Warner]

The title Hans is so close to the word Hans for the character. Is that on purpose?

[Pardeep Toor]

Yeah, it's a play on, you know, the names of immigrants in this country. A lot of people in these stories call him Hans.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

Hans, yeah.

[Pardeep Toor]

Right. So it's just this classic mispronunciation of his name. And I just included that in almost every story. And then when I look back at them, I was like, oh, that's the title. Like, it's just a misconception of Hans and the mispronunciation of his name, which I think is indicative of the immigrant experience for a lot of folks.

[Ryan Warner]

Were people confused by Pardeep when you were growing up?

[Pardeep Toor]

Well, funny story, I wasn't Pardeep growing up. Like, Pardeep is my real name, but, you know, I was Perry for most of my life. So anyone who knows me before I started writing so before I turned 21, still calls me Perry. And it drives my partner crazy that when we were around family, that everyone's still calling me Perry. And then everyone I know after 21, friends, family, every new family, like partner's family, they call me Pardeep. So there's still this dichotomy in my life. And it wasn't until I started writing where I was like, wait, who the hell is Perry? Like, I should use my real name.

[Ryan Warner]

Who came up with Perry?

[Pardeep Toor]

It must have been my parents.

[Ryan Warner]

To fit in, do you think?

[Pardeep Toor]

I think so.

[Ryan Warner]

Or have you fit in?

[Pardeep Toor]

I think it was totally well intentioned. I think our parents wanted us to Fit in. Back in the late 80s 90s, when I was going through elementary and middle school, we were truly minorities in the population sense of being one of the only few Indian people in your school, in your class. I mean, I don't think Pardeep is hard to say, but I think my parents probably thought it was. So they wanted to shorten it and make it Perry. So.

[Ryan Warner]

And if not difficult to pronounce, which again, I don't think it is because it sounds like it looks, but it's clearly not a Western name. Right. So maybe is that what they were feeling about Perry versus Pardeep?

[Pardeep Toor]

You know, now I have to go back and call them and ask them tonight. I think. I think it was just generally about fitting in and fitting in one more thing. Like, you know, it was already the color of our skin, it was already our religion, and it was like one more thing where if they can be avoided. So again, I think their intentions were definitely pure. But as you get older and you start, you know, discovering yourself and discovering who you are, you're like, whoa, that's kind of weird.

[Ryan Warner]

Like, so the change back to Pardeep was a decision you made and this is your first book?

[Pardeep Toor]

Yeah.

[Ryan Warner]

Any question that Pardeep was gonna be on it versus Perry?

[Pardeep Toor]

Oh, none. None. No. And I started as a journalist after college, so I was writing news and writing online. And so as soon as I had a byline, I immediately went to Pardeep

[Lisa Hidalgo]

because I was like.

[Ryan Warner]

And how did that feel? Like the first time you saw it as a byline?

[Pardeep Toor]

It's weird. It's like another identity. Right. Again, it's not a better or worse identity.

[Ryan Warner]

Is it more adult?

[Pardeep Toor]

I don't know. I don't know. Is Perry a kid's name? I'm not sure.

[Ryan Warner]

Well, I don't know. It certainly was the name when you were a kid.

[Timothy O'Brien]

Right.

[Ryan Warner]

So there's a part of me that thinks, well, Pardeep is your grown up name.

[Pardeep Toor]

Right, right, right. It definitely feels. Again, I think it's most indicative when you're around folks that you've known before I was 21, and then people, you know, after 21, it's kind of a reminder sometimes that, oh, yeah, that was a huge part of my life, that name. And I think that was true for Hans too. Like, it's just something that happens. I think it's very common. I reverted back simply because I felt like my real name should be on my writing. But some folks don't revert back and. And they keep the names that they have.

[Ryan Warner]

Are we assuming that Hans is from Punjab as well? That his family is from Punjab?

[Pardeep Toor]

Yeah, loosely.

[Timothy O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Ryan Warner]

I didn't know Hans to be a Punjabi name.

[Pardeep Toor]

Oh, really? Yeah.

[Ryan Warner]

So it's funny, I think Hans and Franz and I think of like the Scandinavians.

[Pardeep Toor]

Right, right, right. I think there's some German history there as well.

[Ryan Warner]

Yeah. So it's really nice to be exposed to it in a Punjabi sense.

[Pardeep Toor]

Yeah. Hans is a very common Punjabi last name. My grandma's maiden name was Hunts, you know, so it's not uncommon. And I did want to maintain some ambiguity there. You know, of course, as an Indian author, my stories are about Indian folks, or at least this collection is. But I didn't want to get into cultural specifics. I didn't want to place it in a specific religion, you know, but loosely documenting the South Asian experience and I think that just gave me more freedom as a writer to explore themes outside of my immediate culture.

[Ryan Warner]

Are there moments when you're writing a short story where it occurs to you, if I tended to this garden more deeply, this could become a novel? Is that how novels are born, do you think?

[Pardeep Toor]

I don't know.

[Ryan Warner]

Do you have a desire to write a novel?

[Pardeep Toor]

So I have a novel, and Hans is a secondary character in the novel. In this, Hans sister is a part of this collection. But Hans sister and brother in law are the focal point of my draft novel that I'm working on right now. So he appears in the world, but it's mostly about sort of a dysfunctional marriage between his sister and his brother in law. And so he's part of a larger world that I built. And in fact, some of these stories came from the novel. Like stuff that didn't make it in the novel. I kind of extracted them. Cause I thought it was too tangential to the core story of the novel.

[Ryan Warner]

Oh, I'm fascinated by how nonlinear this experience has been for you.

[Pardeep Toor]

Yeah, it goes back to my writing style. And I don't know if this is right or wrong. I just think about this differently, you know, again, from these moments. Sometimes the moments aren't even the climax. Like, there's nothing interesting about teenagers in a basement hanging out. There's probably thousands of them in Colorado doing that tonight.

[Timothy O'Brien]

Right.

[Pardeep Toor]

Hopefully not looking at adult magazines, but you never know. And. But it's just building around these seminal moments. And I think that's probably pretty reflective of folks in general. Like, we have, all of us have these seminal moments in our life that we tend to remember or put more significance on than they deserve. And then, you know, we look at those as turning points.

[Ryan Warner]

Oh, then they deserve.

[Pardeep Toor]

Right, right. I mean, there's this myth, I think, in American literature about the self actualization story. And it's like, then, you know, he finished college and. And they knew who they were.

[Ryan Warner]

Yes. You know, journalists crave this. We'll ask a question like, when did you know you wanted to be a ballerina? You know, and it's like, well, that's not quite how life works. You just wake up one morning.

[Pardeep Toor]

Exactly.

[Ryan Warner]

But we crave that. Yeah.

[Pardeep Toor]

Because we want it to be simple. And life isn't simple. Right. And this collection isn't simple. It's nuanced. And what inspires us or what moments point us in either direction is. It's probably more trivial than movies and literature led us to believe. It's never a seminal moment.

[Ryan Warner]

It's messier.

[Pardeep Toor]

It's way messier. Yeah. Yeah.

[Ryan Warner]

As is your chronology of writing, which I love. Pardeep, thank you so much for chatting with us and for reading this story.

[Pardeep Toor]

I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.

[Ryan Warner]

Broomfield librarian and author Pardeep Toor. His new short story collection is Hands. He also teaches at Lighthouse Writers Workshop, And that is colorado matters for now, with thanks to our team. Tyler bender, carl bielek, anthony cotton, pete

[Pardeep Toor]

kramer, andrea dukakis, zan huckpechone, matt herz, tom haas, pedro lumbragno, shane rumsey, haley sanchez, chandra. Thomas whitfield.

[Ryan Warner]

And I'm ryan warner here with cpr news and krcc.