← Colorado Matters
Colorado Matters
March 11, 2026: Changing worry about climate change into action; Colorado's plan for NFTs to celebrate 150th
00:48:16
Loading summary
Transcript166 lines
- [00:05]
A
Two thirds of Americans say they're worried about climate change, but then you ask,
- [00:09]
B
do you think climate change will affect you? And the number drops by half. So we have to connect what's happening to the people and places and things we love. My insurance bill, my kids health, the cost of my groceries, the future in the place where I live and love. Even that isn't enough though, if we don't know what to do about it.
- [00:31]
A
Climate scientist Katherine Hayhoe of the Nature Conservancy on the tie between Big Oil and Big Tobacco. Then why Colorado celebrating its big birthday with NFTs?
- [00:44]
C
They were labeled by the Department of Treasury as a high risk asset because the truth is a lot of people lost money on them and got caught up in scams when they were at their height.
- [00:57]
A
It's Colorado Matters from CPR News and krcc. I'm Ryan Warner. Americans are broadly concerned about climate change and yet the US Is clawing back protections. So what gives? Atmospheric scientist Catherine Hayhoe has some thoughts and solutions. We caught up during her recent visit to Colorado with the Nature Conservancy. Welcome back to the program.
- [01:22]
B
Thank you for having me back.
- [01:24]
A
As a scientist, a professor and an evangelical Christian, climate education is a passion for you. I think of the web series you used to host, Global Weirding. Such a great title. But this presidential administration has managed to convince a significant number of Americans that trans people are a greater threat than climate change. Did you lose the messaging war?
- [01:49]
B
Well, unfortunately, I don't think those who care the most about climate change even showed up for the messaging war. So many people even today who are absolutely passionate about climate action and understand the full magnitude of the threat this poses, not just for our planet, but for people, for our future, for our health, for our water and food, the economy and the nature that surrounds us, they don't understand the value of messaging. Whereas those who do not want to do anything about climate change, they understand the value so much that they have heavily invested in anti climate messaging over the past 30 plus years. And that has led to the situation we find ourselves in today.
- [02:31]
A
They got a head start.
- [02:32]
B
They got a head start and they got a much bigger investment as well.
- [02:36]
A
Is that oil money? What are you talking about?
- [02:38]
B
Yeah, so there's this phenomenal documentary and book called Merchants of Doubt. It's kind of an amazing accomplishment. Such a small group of people have had an enormous impact on public opinion.
- [02:48]
D
We're the negative force. We're just trying to stop stuff.
- [02:50]
A
You don't fool me anymore.
- [02:53]
B
And in it, Naomi Oreskes lays out exactly how in the 1990s, the oil companies looked around and realized that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change had just released their first scientific report showing that climate was changing and humans were responsible. The United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change was signed by every country in the world in 1992. Levels of concern about climate change were growing equally among Democrats and Republicans in the United States. And they realized that their entire business model was based on digging up, processing, and selling fossil fuels that are driving the majority of climate change. And so they looked around, they thought, well, what could we do to possibly delay action as long as possible to still have a few more good years? And at that time, a number of professional PR experts had just lost their jobs with the tobacco industry.
- [03:45]
A
Aha.
- [03:46]
B
And were literally hired on by the fossil fuel industry to employ the same proven PR techniques, which actually proved to be much more wildly successful in delaying climate action than they were in delaying action to acknowledge the health risks of smoking.
- [04:03]
A
Of smoking. Well, the funny thing here is that nearly 2/3 of Americans say they're worried about climate change. You've kind of reflected that already, that they're experiencing it firsthand. Lord knows we're feeling it in Colorado with how dry and hot it's been. But our chief executive calls it a hoax. He's rescinding what is arguably the keystone climate rule. So do you explain the disconnect by saying the people in power bought the kind of tobacco industry line while the populace didn't as much, or what?
- [04:42]
B
Well, let's break out people in power versus, you know, the average person. Okay, so with the average person, like you just alluded to the Yale Program on Climate Change Communication finds consistently that about 2/3 of Americans are worried about climate change.
- [04:56]
A
Yeah.
- [04:57]
B
And those numbers are even higher in Canada and Europe and Latin America and other places. But we often assume that worry is enough. And what the behavioral science is showing us is that worry is essential. And, you know, if we're not worried about something, why would we want to do anything about it? But worry is not sufficient. So I think of it as the head, the heart, and the hands. So the worry is in our head. When you look at the data, people are worried about the future. They're worried about how climate change will affect future generations. People who live far away, plants and animals. But then you ask, do you think climate change will affect you? And the number drops by half. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's the head to heart gap.
- [05:41]
A
Yep.
- [05:41]
B
So we have to connect what's happening to the People and places and things we love. My insurance bill, my kids health, the cost of my groceries, the future in the place where I live and love. Even that isn't enough though if we don't know what to do about it. So I mentioned earlier, you know, two thirds are worried. Only half of those think it affects them. Do you know how many people actually know what to do about it?
- [06:06]
A
That is the hands, correct? In this?
- [06:08]
B
That's the hands.
- [06:09]
A
What do I do with my hands?
- [06:12]
B
Tell me 8%.
- [06:15]
A
That is to say what is rampant is a sense of I don't know what to do.
- [06:21]
B
That's exactly it. In fact, the folks at Yale went on to ask people who were really worried about this but weren't activated why not? And people said I don't know what to do or, or they said recycle, which don't get me wrong, is a good thing to do, but it is not going to fix global climate change. And they said too, nobody ever asked me to do anything. So they're like, you know, I look at what I eat, I look at what I drive, I, you know, I might try to get solar panels that we haven't shown people how. Our voices are the most powerful thing we have to change the system. That is entirely lacking.
- [06:55]
A
Is that the vote or is that writing a member of Congress?
- [06:59]
B
All of the above. It is using our voice where we live, where we work, the city that we're part of, the organization that we're part of, the school where we go or our child goes, the church where we might attend, as well as voting at the federal level, but also at the state level. And even for example, I live in Texas. One of the most powerful positions in Texas in terms of regulating heat trapping gas emissions is, is the railroad commissioner because they regulate the fugitive methane emissions from all the oil and gas activity in West Texas. And methane is much more powerful a heat trapping gas than carbon dioxide. So using our voice is so important. And we can use our voice first of all ourselves, speaking about it with people we know because it turns out that we don't talk about it. And the reason we don't is because people say, well I'm not a scientist and it's too depressing. But we don't need to talk about the science and we don't want to talk about anything that's too depressing. We want to talk about why it matters to our lives, the heart and what we can do about it, the
- [08:02]
A
hands, and then contrast that with the people in power.
- [08:06]
B
Okay, so that's a Different picture. Without naming any names, because I'm not a clairvoyant or a mind reader, I will just say that many people in power who publicly state that they don't think climate is changing, or if it is, humans aren't responsible. Or even if we are, it's not so bad, or we can't fix it, or they're even saying it's too late. Many of those privately would actually say, sure it's real and actually sure it's serious, but they believe that the solutions pose a greater threat to their power and wealth than the risks. And short term they might be right. They might be right, but long term they aren't.
- [08:47]
A
But this is the conundrum of human behavior, right? Like give me an apple now instead of five later, it is.
- [08:56]
B
They've done experiments on that too with kindergarteners, haven't they?
- [09:00]
A
Maybe that's what I'm recalling.
- [09:02]
B
So that's why our voice is so important. Because so often when we talk about climate action, we immediately again think of, well, I will eat more plants, I will buy a plug in car, I will try to get solar panels on my roof or sign up for a wind power program. Don't get me wrong, those are all good things to do if we have the resources to do them. And I do as many of them myself as I can. But if you just do the math, the number of people who have the resources, the time, and in some case it takes more money to do this too. There aren't enough of us to change the system. We need the easiest choice and the most affordable choice for everyone to also be the best choice. And that means we have to change the system. And to change the system, the most powerful thing an 8 year old child has and a 92 year old great grandmother has is our voice.
- [09:52]
A
I also think about the Nature Conservancy as one of the larger, probably more moneyed environmental groups there is. But you pale in comparison to the fossil fuel industry. So you must feel this David Goliath thing yourself.
- [10:09]
B
Oh, completely. So you know, I do a lot of my climate communication on my own as an individual. And I still remember, remember it was 2011 when I had written a chapter, the introductory chapter for a new book by Newt Gingrich, who at that time had just published Contract with the Earth and was wanting to publish a new book about how there are economically viable and positive constructive solutions to climate change for conservatives. And I'm absolutely on board with that. There are those solutions. So I had written this chapter and
- [10:39]
A
for Newt Gingrich Yes.
- [10:42]
B
Where he sat down on a sofa with Nancy Pelosi. You can see it on YouTube. And they both said, you know, we disagree about many things, but we agree that we need to take care of the Earth. So then he decided to run for president. And in the primary, someone stood up at a town hall meeting and said, you know, why do you, why do you have a climate scientist writing a chapter in your book? And he said, oh, I'm not doing that. I'm getting rid of her. And then immediately this torrent of attacks, that and hate and all kinds of things just came over me like an avalanche. And at the same time as that, I was reading a book called Climate Coverup written by a PR expert called Jim Hogan, who was unwrapping all of the classic, in some cases century old PR techniques that the fossil fuel industry has been using to muddy the waters on this for decades. And I felt like a Girl Scout ran a fight against the Marines. I was like, why am I even doing this? And then even like you said, the Nature Conservancy, the world's largest conservation organization, yet a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the power of the fossil fuel industry. How do we do this? We have to do this by being smart. And being smart today means, first of all, finding solutions that work for people and the planet at the same time. And second of all, it means using what we know of behavioral and cognitive science, science on how we as humans make decisions.
- [12:04]
A
Give us one example before we move on to some Colorado specifics related to climate policy.
- [12:10]
B
Sure. So often people ask me, how do I make people care about X in order to care about climate action? And I say, hang on a second here. Why do they have to care about the thing you care about? Does everybody in the world have to become a passionate birder or a winter athlete before they're allowed to care about climate change? Oh, let's instead figure out what they already care about. Because we are, sadly, at the point where no matter who you are, no matter where you live, no matter what you care about, something that you love, someone or some place you love is being affected by climate change.
- [12:45]
A
Yeah. It's not hard to draw the line.
- [12:47]
B
No. And so rather than trying to make somebody what we are for the reason we care, like I care because I'm a gardener, or I care because I'm a parent, or I care because I'm a, you know, winter athlete. Instead, we have to start, we have to figure out why they care and help them see how climate solutions enable them to be an even more genuine version of who they already see themselves to be, an even better steward of their land and even more thrifty business person, an even more conservative and independent person from an economic perspective.
- [13:16]
A
Climate scientist and educator Catherine Hayhoe is with us. She wrote Saving Us A Case for Hope and Healing in a Divided World. We spoke during her recent visit to Colorado with the Nature Conservancy. After a break, why beavers give her hope and what environmental policy has to do with inflammation. This is Colorado Matters from CPR News. It's Colorado Matters from CPR News. I'm Ryan Warner. She's the rock star of climate scientists. Let's get back to my conversation with Kathryn Hayhoe of the Nature Conservancy. We spoke during her recent visit in Colorado. The dismantling of ncar, the national center for Atmospheric Research, the recasting of the National Renewable Energy Lab, the cancellation of federal funds for green projects, the insistence that coal plants remain open. I'm starting to run out of breath, Professor. Are we in a blip or a new normal?
- [14:20]
B
Well, if you look globally, it is very clear that the giant boulder of clean energy is already rolling down the hill. Gravity is on its side. It's as if the assembly line is already constructed and Henry Ford is already rolling cars off the assembly line and we're trying to double down and invest on horses and buggies. That's the situation we're in today. But there's also no question from a scientific perspective that every year we delay, action carries a cost. There's an extra amount of carbon up there in the atmosphere, wrapping a blanket around the planet, causing us to be that much warmer than we would be otherwise. So that's why with all of the challenges that are going on today, what the Nature Conservancy does, especially we work in every state and in 80 other countries around the world, working with local groups, local counties, local towns, local watershed groups, that work continues. And here in Colorado, there's so much going on that is continuing on, everything from helping to figure out how to get the water people need from the Colorado river to timely example there.
- [15:27]
A
Doc, given the negotiations going on there
- [15:31]
B
have been in the Nature Conservancy has been involved in those making sure that the lands in Colorado are resilient, especially thinking in terms of wildfire risk, and then also making sure that when we build renewable energy, which is moving forward, that we're putting that in places where it makes sense, like old mining lands or places where the land is already disturbed and nobody's cutting down forest or disrupting, you know, migratory bird pathways to put that energy out.
- [15:57]
A
I think I hear you saying to some extent, listen, the leadership at the federal level is not embracing of the idea of climate change and fighting it. Let's recommit, let's deepen our roots locally in the states, in the communities. Is that an accurate framing?
- [16:16]
B
That is absolutely an accurate framing. Because for a very long time, well before this administration, I've personally worked with cities across the US Cities are very bipartisan. You have Republican mayors who understand that their flood risk is increasing, their extreme heat risk is increasing. Investment in nature based solutions can help to address both of those as well as improve people's health. There's so much that can be done at the state to the local level where people can actually see the benefits with their own eyes.
- [16:46]
A
Do you change minds these days?
- [16:50]
B
I, I think I do from the feedback I get. But I am not interested in changing the 10% dismissives minds. So we often think people are almost 50, 50. We think, you know, from all the yelling we hear online and all the horrible comments we see all the time online. I mean, I'm just speaking for myself though maybe you might identify with that too.
- [17:11]
A
I do.
- [17:12]
B
We often feel like it's sort of 50 50, but when we actually look at the data, it turns out that the majority of people in the US are alarmed and concerned. Then there's a big group who are cautious and they often have questions. They want to move forward, but they need those questions answered. And those questions might be, you know, are you really sure that it's not a natural cycle? And we could say yes, we've checked. If it were a natural cycle, it'd be getting cooler right now. Or in some cases they say, well, you know, what about China? I mean, we could do everything we could, but China is just moving ahead with all these new coal plants, aren't they? And then we can say, well, actually last year and the year before, China installed more solar energy in a single year than the US has in its entire history. It is going to be beating the pants off the US in the clean energy economy. Don't you think we should catch up? So they have these questions and those types of questions, when they're answered, lead to action. And then there's a tiny percentage that are disengaged. You know, there's about 5% of people who live under a rock. And to be honest, I'd like to be under that rock for a few weeks sometimes. Wouldn't we all? And then we have about 10% who are very, very doubtful. So kind of, you know, the hardcore media consumers where all they're hearing is sadly false information about climate and nature. And then at the very end, there's 10% dismissive to whom rejecting the reality of this issue is actually an identity for. For that.
- [18:39]
A
I'm so glad you used the word identity because I think to some extent positions that people hold are as much about who they think they are as what they believe or what they know.
- [18:54]
B
Exactly. And so with somebody who it's their identity, they could say, oh yeah, you know, it's just volcanoes causing climate change. And I as a scientist could say, no, actually, big volcanic eruptions cool the earth down. Instead we're warming faster and faster.
- [19:10]
A
Like after Mount St. Helens.
- [19:12]
B
Exactly. And Mount Canitubo and. And so on. But they don't hear me saying that. What they hear me saying is, you are a bad person. That's what they hear me saying, even though I'm not saying it. And so they react as if it's a personal attack. So I actually don't try to change dismissive lines. I think it really takes an internal miracle to do so. And rather than somebody telling you things. But for people who are cautious, which is a pretty big group of people, and then for some people who are doubtful but still willing to listen and engage those, they can definitely be shifted into the concern category. But remember, we've got all these alarmed and concerned people and we could have the whole world alarmed and concerned, but getting that to the head, heart and hands, we could have a hundred percent head alarmed. But imagine if only half of those understand why it matters. And imagine if only 8% of those are activated. That's not the point. The point is to activate people. And again, that's why I think these local solutions, like the Nature Conservancy does, like for example, mimicking the work of beavers to restore streams and wetlands. And in some cases when you do that, the beavers actually show up.
- [20:22]
A
I was going to say they come by because they're like, we recognize this party.
- [20:26]
B
Take this on to last summer, just in Colorado alone, we did 26 projects of Beaver mimicking habitat. And you can see those with your own eyes. You can go and actually look at them. You can see what difference it made to the landscape and to the water quality. And I really believe in the power of those very local solutions that we can see with our own eyes that really make a difference.
- [20:49]
A
And so many other species return when beavers do what they do.
- [20:54]
B
Exactly where do you go?
- [20:57]
A
You don't have to get specific and like ruin your favorite place, but where do you go outside that gives you connection, peace?
- [21:05]
B
First of all, I definitely do go outside because most of us know instinctively that when we've had the chance to spend some time in nature, that it actually does something to us. That's where we experience awe and wonder in the mountains. It's where we experience peace and relaxation and by water or in a forest. And what's really fascinating is medical science is starting to actually measure the impact of nature on our bodies. So you can be outside for 15 minutes and your cortisol, your stress hormone drops when you're outside for just 15 minutes. In Louisville, Kentucky, we teamed up, the Nature Conservancy teamed up with the medical school and with a local neighborhood that was a low income neighborhood that had very little green space due to historic racist redlining practices, which are present in Denver as well and other other Colorado cities.
- [21:56]
A
Often these are where highways zoom through.
- [21:59]
B
Exactly. Highways, factories, a lot of air pollution, a lot of concrete, high flood risk. Those places can be up to 15 degrees Fahrenheit, hotter during heat waves than a wealthy treed neighborhood in the same city. Hmm. And so we worked with this neighborhood to help them green their neighborhood. And the medical school measured levels of inflammation in people's bodies. And the inflammation is correlated with heart disease, with kidney disease, with stress, with even mental illness. And there was a statistically significant drop in inflammation levels after the neighborhood was greened.
- [22:37]
A
Amazing. I think of doctors writing nature prescriptions. I think there were examples of that. There's the long standing tradition in Korea and Japan of forest bathing and doc. I think what we should end on is a group of people that could probably most use a reduction in stress and inflammation, and that is the laid off environmental workers, regulators and advocates who are faced with an existential change at a place like NCAR or at a place like the formerly known as National Renewable Energy Lab, or whose grants are getting canceled, you must meet those people.
- [23:27]
D
I do.
- [23:27]
B
And my heart just breaks. And when you look at the statistics of how many scientists have been let go and dismissed by the federal government, it is absolutely shocking and appalling. And it is not only in climate, it's not only in renewable energy, it's in things like health, which you would assume would be nonpartisan. Since our health is the most valuable thing we have, and basic science research, even things like space exploration, we're looking at massive slashing of federal support and investment. In some cases, it's their actual positions in Some cases, it's their grant funding that people use to actually do the research, pay students, accomplish the. All of this work. It is heartbreaking because no one becomes a scientist just for the, you know, oh, I have, like, three career choices. I might as well become a scientist. No, everyone becomes a scientist because they are passionate about what they're doing, they believe in it, they love it, and they really want to make a difference for people and for the planet. And so it's. It's just absolutely heartbreaking to see some colleagues, you know, jobless for months and then finally getting a job driving a truck for Amazon, when instead they could actually be restoring streams to support healthy fish populations and clean water downstream for all the people who live there. It's like we're cutting off our nose. I don't even know to do what. I wouldn't say despite our face, but making decisions that really affect everyone, no matter who they are, no matter how they vote. I mean, a thermometer is not blue or red. It doesn't give you a different answer depending on how you vote. A hurricane doesn't knock on your door and say, you know, excuse me, who did you vote for in the last presidential election before it destroys your home. We do need politicians, of course, arguing over who has the best solutions to the challenges that confront us. But we really need to acknowledge the challenges that, you know, that they exist and use science to help us understand why they matter and what they're doing. And then we can start arguing over what policies we need to put in place. And again, sort of wrapping back to where we were. That is very much still happening at the local to regional to state level.
- [25:33]
A
Look locally, the concentric circles nearest you. Have you been recruited by other countries? I'm just curious, because we saw France, for instance, offering healthy sums to researchers. As the Trump administration began slashing federal science investment, there was a sense abroad like, oh, there's going to be a brain drain there. We can seize upon these folks. Have you been courted?
- [26:04]
B
Yes, I have been actively recruited multiple times, especially since I am Canadian and Canada is really working to bring a lot of the scientific expertise to Canada in all a whole range of fields, like I said, from medical to environmental to basic sciences. For myself, though, I live in Texas, and I do so out of choice because Texas is the front line in many ways. It is the most vulnerable state in the US to climate disasters, even more vulnerable than California. It has the most clean energy of any state. It's been the number one in wind, and it's neck and neck with California for the most installed utility scale solar. But it's also the home to the oil and gas industry and to many, you know, many elected officials who would do anything to oppose climate action. So in many ways, I just feel like that's the front line. That's where things are changing. And the contrast is just incredible to see the many points of hope that I get every day from looking what's happening in Texas, as well as really seeing what that struggle looks like as we are essentially moving into a new world. And just as we did before the Industrial Revolution, most of the work was done by humans and by animals. Before the Industrial Revolution, we didn't really have energy to do our work. And that was a huge transformation in our way of life. And now we are in a similar transformation with other technological issues such as AI as well. But we're in a huge transformation in terms of how we get and use our energy and how we value nature and everything it provides that sustains all our life here on Earth.
- [27:43]
A
Sticking around in Texas, but it feels nice to be recruited sometimes. Kathryn Hayhoe, thank you so much for being with us again.
- [27:52]
B
Thank you. It feels nice to visit you here in Colorado as well.
- [27:55]
A
She's an atmospheric scientist who wears many hats, chief scientist at the Nature Conservancy, professor at Texas Tech, and principal investigator with the Interior Department and National Science Foundation. And Colorado Matters continues in this next half hour with a crypto offer you can't refuse, except you absolutely can. I'm Ryan Warner. You're with CPR News and krcc. It's Colorado Matters from CPR News. I'm Ryan Warner. Colorado turns 150 this year, and the governor, in line with his tech bro Bonafides, wants to celebrate by auction. Auctioning off NFTs. This idea is raising eyebrows, says CPR's Haley May. Hi, Hayley.
- [28:41]
C
Hey, Ryan.
- [28:42]
A
What exactly is the plan here?
- [28:43]
C
Well, at a big tech conference last month, the governor announced that as part of the state's anniversary celebration, it would auction off 150 Colorado NFTs. And it all kicks off on June 1st.
- [28:55]
A
Okay, 150 of them in honor of the birthday. Probably worth reminding us what an NFT is.
- [29:03]
C
Yeah, definitely. The idea has been kind of out of the cultural lexicon for a minute, but the acronym stands for Non Fungible Token. It's basically a digital asset, often an image or a piece of art whose ownership is recorded on a blockchain. And if you're like me and you also need an explanation on that, it's basically a public ledger where people use cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin or Ethereum. And people often store NFTs in digital wallets so you can buy or resell them. The sort of meme surrounding this idea is that you're purchasing a jpeg.
- [29:35]
A
Okay, I understand the timing of this announcement raises questions. How so?
- [29:41]
C
Well, it's because the NFT boom, Ryan, really peaked around 2021.
- [29:44]
A
Yeah. I mean, this is what you said, right? That it's been out of the lexicon a bit. Okay.
- [29:48]
C
Yeah. So at the time, people were paying huge sums for NFT art, sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars. But since then, the market's really quite pooled, and many NFTs that once sold for these big amounts are now worth far less. So a popular example was bought by YouTuber Logan Paul for $623,000 in 2021. It's now only valued at 155 bucks. Oh, yeah, big loss.
- [30:16]
A
So he bought the equivalent of a decent home in Denver and now can barely afford to pay for groceries with it.
- [30:26]
D
Okay.
- [30:27]
A
And so as a result, there's a lot of controversy around these.
- [30:30]
C
That's right, yeah. They were labeled by the Department of Treasury as a high risk asset, because the truth is, a lot of people like Logan Paul lost money on them and got caught up in scams when they were at their height. Plus, just last year, DraftKings actually agreed to pay $10 million to settle claims that it NFT Marketplace sold unregistered securities to consumers, including some Coloradans who may just not have understood the risks.
- [30:56]
A
DraftKings is the online gambling platform.
- [30:59]
C
That's right.
- [30:59]
A
I mean, so even the idea that this is a gamble. You spoke with someone in the crypto realm about the state's auction and about NFTs in general. What do you have to say?
- [31:11]
C
Denver entrepreneur Danny Newman, who works in crypto and artificial intelligence, told me that the technology itself isn't bad or inherently scammy, but the NFT as digital art trend may have already had its moment. And because of that, the auction feels more like a promotional effort than a
- [31:30]
B
technological breakthrough, especially with how other NFTs at the federal level, with certain folks kind of went. It feels a little icky at this point, I would say.
- [31:40]
A
I think there was an interesting time for this. I think the NFT as art trend is just a little behind current times at this point.
- [31:49]
C
Newman said that blockchain technology still has potential uses for government, especially for things like record keeping or permitting systems, like we've seen in Nevada, for example. But he sees those kinds of practical applications as very different from selling digital collectibles.
- [32:05]
A
Don't want to get, quote, silly things confused with, you know, functional things.
- [32:10]
D
Okay.
- [32:10]
A
I mean, it's a birthday party. It can get silly. What does the state say about the purpose of these NFTs?
- [32:16]
C
The governor's office told me in an email that the project is meant to celebrate the anniversary and the state's goal of innovation. They also say these NFTs will come with perks. So things that maybe unlock ways for buyers to engage with the state.
- [32:31]
A
Like what?
- [32:31]
C
Well, we don't know yet. The state hasn't released details on exactly what those benefits will include. And the pricing for these NFTs has also yet to be announced. The they say that more details will be made available closer to that launch date on June 1st.
- [32:45]
A
Okay. What if it's an auction? It could go anywhere, I suppose. If the market for NFTs has cooled, what does success look like for something like this?
- [32:53]
C
Well, Newman said success would simply be if all of these 150 Colorado NFTs sell. But he cautioned that expectations for a dollar amount should probably stay relatively modest.
- [33:04]
A
And this would just go into the general fund or. We don't know.
- [33:07]
C
What we know is that this is going to benefit the broader celebrations of Colorado 150. They sent us over a list of the kinds of events that they're planning, but it's a little unclear as to exactly how this money is going to be used.
- [33:21]
A
Okay, maybe to buy some birthday cake for the state or something. Colorado calls itself the first state to launch NFTs. I guess. Before we go, Haley, big picture. Does that signal anything about the state's tech ambitions?
- [33:34]
C
I mean, look, Colorado's broader effort to brand itself as a hub for emerging technologies really does fit with this kind of an idea. Events like ETH Denver, which is that technology conference where the governor announced the auction, do draw a large blockchain community to the state every year. And let's not forget that Polis himself was one of the first politicians who took campaign donations through cryptocurrency. I think that's all the way back to, like, 2014.
- [33:58]
A
Yeah.
- [33:59]
C
So while the NFTs themselves may feel like, okay, maybe we're kind of late to the trend, the announcement does reflect Colorado's interest in staying connected to the tech and crypto ecosystem.
- [34:10]
A
But, you know, caveat emptor. Buyer beware. Thanks for being with us.
- [34:14]
C
Thank you.
- [34:15]
A
CPR's Haley Mae on the state's plans to auction off NFTs as part of the Sesqua Semi quincentennial. This is Colorado Matters from CPR News. RYAN It's Colorado Matters from CPR News. I'm Ryan Warner. A film about the late Colorado poet laureate Andrea Gibson is up for best documentary feature at the Oscars this weekend. Gibson died of ovarian cancer in July at 49. The comedian Tig Notaro was Gibson's friend and co produced Come See Me in the Good Light. We spoke in December. Tig Notaro, thank you for being with us.
- [34:53]
D
Thanks for having me.
- [34:55]
A
In this film, Andrea recites a poem that includes the words took the caution tape off my life, which I think really captures the essence of the documentary. Is this a film you can easily go back and watch, or is it one that you have to store away to some extent?
- [35:15]
D
Me personally?
- [35:16]
A
Yeah.
- [35:17]
D
Yes. After Andrea died, the first time I saw, saw the film, I was a little like, how's this going to go? But it was comforting. And that hasn't gone away. I've seen the movie 10 million times, all the different iterations of edits. And then again, as I said, after Andrea passed away, it just, I don't know, it's just remained a comforting film to me.
- [35:50]
A
Watching it as someone who didn't know Andrea, it made me miss someone I didn't know.
- [35:57]
D
I hear that all the time from people that not only do they miss who they never met, but they are just desperate to know this person and they can't believe that door has closed.
- [36:15]
A
Will you meditate a little on those words? Took the caution tape off my life. They really struck me.
- [36:23]
D
Yeah. I mean, everything was so precious to Andrea. And then also nothing was too precious. Like you could, you could watch Andrea's performance and be leveled and crying and so touching. Touched. And then you could go out afterwards and laugh so hard, inappropriately about that. Like, it was just one of the things that Andrea talked about was about how, like when you bend a garden hose.
- [36:58]
A
Yeah.
- [36:59]
D
And it shuts the water off in comparison to human emotion, that if you want that flowing, you got to take everything and that's the good and the bad that's going to come out of that hose once you release the wrinkle in it. The, you know, and that's, I think, the epitome of what Andrea was about was you could talk about anything, you could ask anything, you could laugh about anything, you could cry about anything.
- [37:31]
A
I'm so glad you brought up humor because Andrea Gibson is so funny and humor helps them through the terminal diagnosis. I mean, at one point they're in the hospital, I think maybe for a chemo session, and they're doing the disappearing thumb trick, saying the nurse should really look at this thumb problem more than the tumor. I wonder how much laughter played in into your connection.
- [38:02]
D
Well, I mean, the first thing that drew me into Andrea was like, what a cool looking person. I couldn't believe, like, when I was introduced to Andrea in 2001 and I was told Andrea was a poet, I truly was like, I think this might
- [38:19]
B
be a rock star.
- [38:20]
D
But after we got and. And after seeing Andrea performed, it was confirmed Andrea is a rock star.
- [38:27]
A
Well, and actually you point out in the film, one of the first slam poets to perform in rock venues. So that word holds a lot, you
- [38:35]
D
know, rock for sure. Absolutely. And yeah, after getting to know Andrea and getting kind of, I'm embarrassed to say, over the obstacle of seeing Andrea as a poet and being like, wow, that's not what I pictured for a poet. What the place that I really connected with Andrea was their sense of humor. If I can brag, that thumb removal trick that Andrew is doing, that was something where I told the director, I was like, I saw footage a while back of Andrea removing their thumb and that feels like it has to go into the movie. And so when I saw the second edit, I was like, oh, thank God. Because I felt like that's so the epitome. And if I can share also, yeah, I, I always make the joke of when I'm dying. I want people to say in my obituary that I lost my sense of humor in the end. Because I think it's so funny that people always talk about like, oh, and she had her sense of humor up until the end, which I'm. I'm sure is true, but it's just, it's like how many jokes are going off in the end of life? But when I was with Andrea in Andrea's last few days, and I crawled in bed to be next to them, Andrea turned to me with barely any energy in their body and pointed at this gross brown stain as I was crawling up to be right next to their body. And Andrea said, pointed at it and said, I don't know what this stain is, but we'll just blame it on Meg. Okay? It's like, oh, my God, I was so not expect it, like, hit me from behind. And I was like, oh, right. You are a funny, funny person, Andrea. I think Andrea died the following day, but it was. Oh, that was the epitome of somebody not losing their sense of Humor in the end.
- [40:42]
A
And you're speaking of Andrea's wife, Megan, also a poet.
- [40:48]
D
Yes.
- [40:49]
A
And very much the subject as well of this film, of their relationship, caring for each other. In fact, Andrea says at one point, and I'm paraphrasing, the trouble with my dying is I want to be there for men, and I won't be able to be there for her to comfort her about my own death.
- [41:13]
D
Yeah.
- [41:14]
A
Andrea's last shows were at Denver's Paramount Theater. They were booked months in advance, and Andrea wasn't sure that they'd even be alive for them or healthy enough to perform, but they were, and it's a crescendo in this documentary. And, Tig, you were a special guest at those shows. Can you describe the. I don't know, the electricity or the feel of the house?
- [41:41]
D
It was. I tell everyone, it truly felt like the Beatles reunited. People were. It was so palpable, the energy in that room. You know, not that this is great for artists and ticket sales, but you know how you can buy a ticket and resell it on online?
- [41:58]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [41:59]
D
Those tickets sold out so fast, and they were going for thousands of dollars each. This was two shows sold out immediately, and then what was left, people were actually buying those overpriced, scalped tickets up near $5,000 a seat.
- [42:27]
A
I think that part of the draw to Andrea is that they were a slam poet, but they weren't fussy or professorial or kind of ivory tower. There's a wonderful exchange between Andrea and Meg. It basically comes down to the joke that Andrea's a huge success in poetry, even though they only know five words.
- [42:52]
D
Yeah. Right now, Andrew is helping me edit my memoir. We edit each other very differently. Yeah.
- [43:01]
B
It takes me so, so long to write and sort of watch Meg write. Like she will just come up with
- [43:06]
D
this brilliant, beautiful writing in such a brief amount of time. That's the thing, Meg.
- [43:15]
B
You know so many words, but one
- [43:18]
A
day we're going to find out that
- [43:19]
D
all these words that Meg says are
- [43:21]
B
words aren't really words.
- [43:23]
D
Okay, let's take a vote. What's more weird, Me knowing words as a poet and a writer, or Andrea,
- [43:29]
B
poet laureate, knowing five? Do you know how good of a
- [43:34]
D
writer you have to be to write
- [43:36]
B
as many poems as I have with five words?
- [43:40]
D
Sorry, but, like, you have way more tools.
- [43:43]
B
It's like I just built a house with a screwdriver.
- [43:47]
A
Andrea's accessibility and humility is so apparent in this film. Did you feel that as their friend?
- [43:57]
D
Yeah, it's right There it's laid out like everything else. It's so hard to find people on this planet that lead with everything on the table and. Yeah, well.
- [44:15]
A
And probably more so in your line of work. I mean, I don't. I think there are a lot of heirs in Hollywood and in the industry. Is that true?
- [44:27]
D
I would say so. And, you know, what's really incredible is Andrea and Meg are obviously artists themselves, and when they came on to this film, not one time did either of them ask anybody, what is this film gonna be? And can I see what angle you're shooting? There was full trust and respect that was reciprocated with the filmmakers. And Ryan, the director, he came up to me is like, I have never. He's like, I've made 20 films. I've never had a subject, much less to not have a single question for me. They just lived their lives, and he captured it.
- [45:18]
A
Incredible. I wondered, were there moments where Andrea said, you know, turn off the camera. This is too much. This is too intimate. I'm too vulnerable. That's.
- [45:27]
B
No.
- [45:28]
D
Andrea would say, I'm having a really hard time, and I'm having a real deep cry. But you're welcome to come in.
- [45:36]
A
Take. You are a cancer survivor, and I wonder if that had anything to do with your interest in the project.
- [45:42]
D
I mean, I. I like to keep my foot in the world of cancer. I have that survivor's guilt, I think, especially losing an old friend and. And other people in my life actually, where I'm like, I cannot believe I am one of the lucky ones, you know, And. But I would say mostly when my friend Steph Willen, who is the. Is another producer on it, she and I were working on Andrea's podcast, trying to get it produced and edited, put out into the world, trying to figure out what the theme and message of the whole show was. And then Steph is the one that casually said, I feel like Andrea's life would make an incredible documentary right now. And I. It took my breath away. And I was. I couldn't believe I hadn't thought of it, but it mainly took my breath away because I knew how dynamic, and I just. I just knew. I just knew. And I know everyone that makes a project or a piece of art knows. They. They're like, oh, I know this will be good. And sometimes it's not. But I just really felt like this. I could see it to this very moment, I'm talking to you. What. What this movie could do.
- [47:08]
A
Wow. Wow.
- [47:09]
D
Wow.
- [47:10]
A
Well, Tig, thank you so much for remembering your friend with us.
- [47:15]
D
My absolute pleasure. Thank you for your time and for sharing about Andrea in this film. I'm so deeply proud of it and proud of Andrea and Meg. Oh, my God. And Meg.
- [47:28]
A
Comedian Tig Notaro, a friend of the late Colorado poet laureate Andrea Gibson. We spoke in December. Notaro's co producer of Come See Me in the Good Light. It's nominated for best documentary feature at Sunday's Academy Awards. The closing credits feature a duet by Sara Bareilles and Brandi Carlisle. The composition salt, Then Sour, Then Sweet was written by Bareilles with Gibson's words. This is Colorado Matters from CPR News and krcc. I'm Ryan Warner.
- [48:11]
D
She's a passenger van and a shortcut straight to the truth.