March 23, 2026: Colorado's prisons are nearly full but is more space the solution?; 'Prison Journalism Project'

Summary

Podcast Summary: Colorado Matters – March 23, 2026

Episode Title: Colorado's prisons are nearly full but is more space the solution?; 'Prison Journalism Project'
Hosts: Ryan Warner & Chandra Thomas Whitfield
Main Theme:
The episode investigates Colorado’s prison overcrowding crisis—why it's happening, the systemic impacts, and heated policy debates on how (or whether) to expand prison capacity. The second half spotlights the Prison Journalism Project and its collaboration with Pueblo’s nonprofit Star Journal, offering incarcerated individuals a platform for storytelling.

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Prisons at Breaking Point: Overcrowding and Its Causes

Overview and Context

• Colorado's prisons are nearly at capacity: Overcrowding affects not just inmates and staff but also local jails and the broader justice system.
• Legislative gridlock: Lawmakers are debating costly solutions like building more prisons amid a severe state budget shortfall.

Key Discussion Points

Experiencing Overcrowding First-Hand

• [01:33] Bente Birkland: Overcrowding leads to intolerable living conditions: "When the state has too many people in its prisons, difficult living conditions can quickly become intolerable.”
• [01:42] David Carrillo (former inmate): “You have individuals who are forced into cells that are designed for maybe one person. Now you have two people in that cell. ... It continues to put stress on the resources that are available, and these resources include space and accessibility, to hygiene issues, to communication with the outside world.”
• Carrillo notes the impact on rehabilitation, with classes canceled and students unable to attend.

Overcrowding Effects Extend Beyond Prisons

• [03:25] Kyle McKinnon: Overflow of inmates strains county jails, which were not designed for long-term incarceration.

Data Points and Official Concerns

• Prisons running at 97% capacity since last summer (2025): Target is 75-80% to run safely.
• 159 funded available beds in a system with 16,000 male inmates ([06:04] Moses Andre Stancil).
• Lawmakers and DOC officials express safety and staffing concerns.
• [05:27] Mark Fairburn, State Director of Prisons: “Anytime you’re gonna put more people than what’s supposed to be in a cell, it causes additional tension.”

Why Is Overcrowding Happening Now?

• Main reason: Fewer people are being released on parole, not more are being sentenced.
  • [07:16] Kyle McKinnon: “It’s not because more people are going into prison. It’s that fewer people are coming out.”
• Staffing shortages: Insufficient program/class availability holds up parole eligibility.
  • [08:29] Sgt. James Carr: “We don’t have enough correctional officers. ... Inmates don’t get the program support they need. Inmates lose hope and violence spikes.”
  • [09:04] Sgt. Carr: Some inmates fear release due to incomplete preparation: “They don't feel like they're ready to go out on the outside world, and they're actually scared to do so.”

Systemic Flaws in Parole Assessments

• [10:30] Faulty risk assessments: Incorrectly classified high-risk parolees as low-risk 98% of the time.
  • [11:01] Rep. Matt Soper: “It’s caused us as the legislature to not trust the process. ... You can't release anyone because you don't trust where the risk assessment was.”
• Technical parole violations leading to returns: Even minor infractions can result in reincarceration ([10:01]).

Policy Responses and Legislative Frustrations

• 2018 legislation to coordinate responses when prisons exceed 97% capacity has not had the intended effect.
  • [13:35] Sen. Mike Weissman: “That mechanism is, frankly, too narrow, too tight... It’s provided a minimal amount of relief.”

Short-term Stopgaps and County Jail Backlogs

• Overflow inmates are now held in county jails awaiting transfer.
  • [15:15] Sheriff Steve Reams: "We're holding sometimes between 30 and 50 inmates in my facility that are sentenced to the Department of Corrections and should be in the Department of Corrections.”

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Policy Stalemate: Expand Capacity or Reform the System?

State Budget Tensions and Lawmaker Perspectives

Legislative Funding Drama

• DOC’s request for funding additional beds was initially denied, then tentatively approved, showing political unease ([18:39]–[22:03]).
  • [19:01] Rep. Emily Sirota: “I want to know what it is the administration is going to do ... beyond just continued requests for more beds, building more prisons and spending more money.”
  • [19:31] Sen. Judy Amabile: “If people don't have access to these things that they need in order to be parole eligible, then I don't understand why we're not asking for money to get more treatment providers in there.”
  • [20:42] Sen. Barbara Kirkmeyer: “The issue is not going away just because you don’t want to fund it.”
• State audit highlights DOC’s lack of strategic planning ([21:02]).

Bigger Solutions—or Band-Aids?

• DOC is pushing reopening or building more prisons ([25:15]).
• [26:28] Sen. Judy Amabile: “I feel like it would be an obscene misuse of public funds to buy and build out a prison when we have hundreds of people waiting in our jails to get to a hospital…”
• Lawmakers must weigh DOC’s needs against competing demands like health care, education, and transportation ([27:12]–[27:34]).

Deeper Societal Questions

• [28:09] Kyle McKinnon: Debate reflects the “ebb and flow” of tough-on-crime vs. reform, with fears of appearing “soft on crime” persisting.
• [28:49] Kyle Giddings, Colorado Criminal Justice Reform Coalition: “Just locking up people isn’t actually a serious response to individuals who are struggling with addiction or ... maintain their jobs. ... That’s not serious. I wouldn’t even say it’s being tough. That’s being irresponsible.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• [05:27] Mark Fairburn: “They could not get out of their bed. ... They’re sleeping right next to the combo unit, which is the toilet, sink combo. What it also causes is tension, tension inside a cell.”
• [19:31] Sen. Judy Amabile: “If people don't have access to these things ... I was at Lyman the other day and I did hear people say, well, I need this thing ... I was denied. ... And so that's a real frustration, I think, for me and for others.”
• [22:44] Justin Bracke, JBC staff: “…the JBC, in my view, has been carrying a lot of water in this ... I think at this point, ... the JBC should just let things ... if that means letting things fail, then you let things fail.”

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The Prison Journalism Project: Giving Incarcerated People a Voice

Project Background

• The prison journalism partnership gives voice to those inside Colorado prisons and offers unique perspectives.
• [31:26] Tavion Williams (via Gregory Howell’s reading): “For 13 years, I lived in concrete giants... institutions where hope felt like contraband...”

Editorial Process and Community Impact

• Publishing essays requires collaboration and established relationships within prison facilities ([39:48] Gregory Howell).
• Proximity to “Prison Valley” in Cañon City, with 11 correctional facilities, shapes the community and coverage.
• Payment to incarcerated authors is seen as both fair compensation and workforce development ([42:41]).

Insights from Tavion Williams

• [33:34] Williams (own voice): Praises the “Beacon at Skyline” program for providing hope and rehabilitation—including time in nature and real educational opportunities.
• Williams reflects on identity, emotional regulation, and his growth as a writer:
  • “There’s some exceptional men behind these walls. ... All these fallen stars, endless potential. We’ve done wrong... but I’m a huge advocate for the guys inside having a voice, because if they don't say it, who else is going to say it?”

Changing the Narrative

• The project’s stories reveal a more human, restorative lens, challenging stereotypes from shows like “Orange is the New Black” or “Oz” ([42:21]).

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Community Journalism & Local Impact: The Pueblo Star Journal

Sustaining Local Journalism

• Pueblo Star Journal celebrates five years as a nonprofit local news source ([43:05]).
• Unique coverage—such as the Da Vinci Museum investigation—illustrates their bold approach.
• They highlight local crises, such as challenges with a new county jail and a childcare shortage ([46:56]).

Commitment to Independent and Culturally-Embedded Reporting

• The newsroom operates in a “news desert,” providing essential, locally relevant stories.
• Community ties (“the one degree of separation”) foster accountability and fresh ideas.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Topic | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------------|----------------| | Experiencing prison overcrowding | 01:33–03:11 | | Capacity and policy challenges | 04:11–06:38 | | Flaws in parole and risk assessment | 07:07–11:47 | | Legislative/policy responses and audit findings | 12:21–22:44 | | DOC/Lawmaker frustrations & planning | 22:44–25:15 | | Push for new prisons & budget debate | 25:15–27:34 | | Societal views on crime and reform | 28:09–29:49 | | Prison Journalism Project segment begins | 31:26 | | Tavion Williams' perspective | 33:34–37:34 | | Editorial process at Star Journal | 39:07–44:20 | | Innovations and local stories at Star Journal | 44:20–47:35 | | Childcare crisis coverage in Pueblo | 46:48–47:35 |

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Conclusion

This episode of Colorado Matters captures the intertwined crises of prison overcrowding, structural hurdles to parole, staff shortages, and fiscal dilemmas facing Colorado. It highlights the human side of incarceration through the Prison Journalism Project, while showcasing the value of independent, community-rooted journalism in Pueblo and across Colorado. The debate over “building more beds” versus pursuing deeper reform continues—and the stories of those living within the system may be essential to finding solutions.

Transcript

[Sam]

Sam.

[Ryan Warner]

It's Colorado Matters from CPR News and krcc. I'm Ryan Warner. The state's prisons are nearly out of space, and the effects go beyond the walls and fences. But solutions could be costly.

[Unidentified Host/Moderator]

This is not an easy conversation for any of us.

[Ryan Warner]

Let's delve into why and what state lawmakers are considering with Purplish. It's the podcast about policy and politics from CPR News and the Colorado Capital News Alliance. This time we join KUNC's Kyle McKinnon and CPR Public affairs reporter Bente Birkland.

[Bente Birkland]

When the state has too many people in its prisons, difficult living conditions can quickly become intolerable.

[David Carrillo]

You have individuals who are forced into cells that are designed for maybe one person. Now you have two people in that cell. You have enough showers in a living unit that is designed for, let's say, feedback, 50 individuals. Now the showers have to be able to provide for 100 individuals.

[Bente Birkland]

That kind of crowding is something David Carrillo experienced firsthand. He served three decades in various Colorado prisons. Now he visits prisons to teach economics to inmates. And he sees overcrowding play out in different ways.

[David Carrillo]

It continues to put stress on the resources that are available, and these resources include space and accessibility, to hygiene issues, to communication with the outside world.

[Kyle McKinnon]

That stress on resources means that Carrillo's classes sometimes get canceled. If class does happen, his students might face obstacles just getting there.

[Bente Birkland]

Colorado's prisons have been filled nearly to capacity for months, and prison cells are already tight spaces.

[David Carrillo]

If you could imagine, you live in your bathroom and now they put in another person in that bathroom with you, and the two of you have to live in that space. That becomes quite confining.

[Kyle McKinnon]

And when inmates start having to live like this, you can see that there's a problem there.

[David Carrillo]

And that problem then snowballs into other issues.

[Bente Birkland]

The result? Some state prisons are operating in crisis mode. They're running out of space. At the same time, they face a host of other pressures, including aging buildings, not enough staff or medical providers.

[Kyle McKinnon]

And as the prisons have filled up, the impacts have spread beyond their walls to put more strain on county jails. And lawmakers at the state capitol are raising concerns.

[Bente Birkland]

The Department of Corrections says it needs more money to increase capacity. But as the state struggles to fill a huge budget gap, policymakers are frustrated and reluctant to spend more money on the problem or without a long term solution. Kyle we opened this show talking about what crowding in Colorado prisons can look like, but I want to go into a little more details, starting with how long this has been Going on.

[Kyle McKinnon]

So it's been developing for a while. But last summer is really when things reached a breaking point. From July to August, the prison system was at more than 97% capacity.

[Senator Judy Amabile]

Wow.

[Bente Birkland]

Yeah, 97%. And I'd asked around as we were working on this episode, and from what I heard, the target capacity for a prison system is closer to 75 to 80%. So anything more than that and you start having the kind of issues we just heard from David Carrillo.

[Kyle McKinnon]

Right. And research shows that overcrowded prisons can result in real physiological and psychological harms for inmates, particularly when it goes on for some time. Infectious diseases can spread much more easily. Some studies have also found increased rates of death, suicide, and more inmates getting in trouble for breaking prison rules.

[Bente Birkland]

This can make prison more dangerous, not just for the inmates, but also the staff. And the crowding situation has everyone from DOC officials to state employees to some lawmakers really worried. This is how the state's Director of prisons, Mark Fairburn, described it to lawmakers. He talked about what happens when you add more people to a cell than it's meant to hold.

[Mark Fairburn]

They could not get out of their bed. They'd be stepping on someone else's bed. They're sleeping right next to the combo unit, which is the toilet, sink combo. What it also causes is tension, tension inside a cell. Anytime you're gonna put more people than what's supposed to be in a cell, it causes additional tension.

[Bente Birkland]

The Executive Director of Corrections, Moses Andre Stancil, told lawmakers that the biggest issue facing the state's prison system, short term and long term, is capacity.

[Moses Andre Stancil]

Right now we currently have 159 funded available beds. Out of all the beds that we have. 159 funded available beds.

[Bente Birkland]

159 open prison beds. That's in a system with more than 16,000 male inmates. So that's just a fraction of beds that are available for new inmates. DOC is asking for more money for hundreds more beds. And more recently, the governor's budget director came back to the budget committee and said it's time to consider a new prison.

[Unidentified Host/Moderator]

We may even need two prisons.

[Kyle McKinnon]

But lawmakers like Democratic state Representative Emily Sirota say they're tired of spending money on short term fixes without some kind of long term plan.

[Emily Sirota]

We have yet to see anything from the administration. And if their only plan is to just keep saying numbers go up, it's not good enough. It's not good enough.

[Bente Birkland]

I think it makes sense to start with the how do we get here Question, Kyle. How did Colorado end Up in this current situation, more inmates than the state can comfortably handle.

[Kyle McKinnon]

I'm glad you asked, Benta. On the most basic level, Colorado does have more people in prison than it did just a few years ago. But it's not because more people are going into prison. It's that fewer people are coming out.

[Bente Birkland]

So basically, the state isn't letting people out on parole as quickly as it used to.

[Kyle McKinnon]

Exactly. The state has something called discretionary parole when a prisoner is released before they've served their full sentence because they've maintained good behavior in prison and are determined to be a low risk.

[Bente Birkland]

You'd think, given how crowded things are, that the parole board would be eager to identify inmates who would qualify for this discretionary release.

[Kyle McKinnon]

You would think that. And in fact, under state law, the low vacancy rate is actually supposed to trigger a more streamlined process to make it easier to let people out on parole when they get close to their mandatory release date.

[Bente Birkland]

So why isn't that happening?

[Kyle McKinnon]

Well, in part, it's a problem of resources. DOC says it doesn't have enough staff for classes or treatment programs that many inmates are required to complete before their release. Here's Sergeant James Carr, who works at Sterling Correctional Facility.

[Sergeant James Carr]

We don't have enough correctional officers. Case managers, teachers, and maintenance workers are being forced to cover correctional officers as part of their regular schedules. That means inmates don't get the program support they need. Inmates lose hope and violence spikes. That makes our work more dangerous.

[Kyle McKinnon]

And James stressed that he views rehabilitation as a key part of prison to give people a chance to atone, but then get ready to reenter society.

[Sergeant James Carr]

Yeah, so I inmate was talking to me, they see the pro board hearing, but they haven't got all the classes done to do so. So they don't. They don't feel like they're ready to go out on the outside world, and they're actually scared to do so because they don't have all that classroom that they need. They just feel like they're not ready.

[Kyle McKinnon]

Related to the lack of classes. There's also a real challenge with making sure inmates get the mental health and addiction treatment they need before they can be released. DOC said they just don't have enough providers. So there's a backlog of inmates awaiting care.

[Bente Birkland]

So prisons are having delays in getting people ready for parole, people who would otherwise be eligible for parole. Once people are are on parole, though, our reporting has shown there's policies in place that make it harder to stay on parole, essentially.

[Kyle McKinnon]

Yeah, that's right, Benta. And one of the state's top criminal justice reform groups, the Colorado Criminal Justice Reform Coalition says it's been seeing a big jump in the number of people on parole being sent back to prison for it considers minor or technical parole violations like missed appointments.

[Bente Birkland]

Another issue with parole is the state has a big problem with the risk assessment it does to determine how much supervision people need once they are on parole.

[Unidentified Host/Moderator]

This is how the state of Colorado assesses the risk of those on parole.

[Bente Birkland]

A form with several questions that lead to scores seven sections in all. The more points, the more risk.

[Justin Bracke]

It's the idea if you're high risk,

[Bente Birkland]

you should get more intervention.

[Molly Cotner]

If you're low risk, you should get less intervention.

[Kyle McKinnon]

This is from nine news. It reviewed a sample of these assessments and found something that caught everyone's attention. The state employees who fill out those forms were getting them wrong about 98% of the time.

[Matt Soper]

Doc had been scoring people who were really high risk offenders as low risk. And so they weren't supervised, they weren't monitored, they were released early.

[Bente Birkland]

That's Republican representative Matt Soper and he sits on the Judiciary Committee.

[Matt Soper]

It's caused us as the legislature to not trust the process. And DOC is actively now going back through re evaluating all the low risk offenders to see whether or not they're scored appropriately.

[Bente Birkland]

Nine news found cases where parolees went months without face to face meetings with parole officers. A few of them committed violent crimes later. So Silper said it doesn't make lawmakers want to release more people early on Parol role until that assessment system is just revamped and they feel it's really

[Matt Soper]

solid, this process could take probably a year, year and a half at least to be able to go through. And that just means that you can't release anyone because you don't trust where the risk assessment was.

[Bente Birkland]

So you take all this together. Not enough resources inside prisons to help people get ready for parole and fears that the system is broken when they do get out on parole. You can see how the number of people behind bars has been growing.

[Kyle McKinnon]

And that said, as we mentioned before, the state does have policies that are supposed to help when prisons get too crowded.

[Bente Birkland]

Yeah, that's right. Back in 2018, lawmakers passed a bipartisan bill to institute what's called prison population management measures. Kind of a mouthful, but the basic idea is once prisons have operated at more than 97% capacity for at least a month, the state is supposed to kick off this coordinated response to bring the population back down.

[Kyle McKinnon]

As we said Benta, Colorado hit that mark back in mid August Once that happened. The governor, the doc, the parole board, state lawmakers, district attorneys, and others are supposed to start working on finding places for people to go.

[Bente Birkland]

Part of that is identifying low level or nonviolent inmates who are within a few months of their mandatory release date state or they might be eligible for conditional release and move them to available spaces in community corrections. So essentially halfway houses.

[Kyle McKinnon]

Right. But here we are. And what looked good to lawmakers on paper back in 2018 right now doesn't seem to have amounted to much. I asked Democratic Senator Mike Weissman about why this hasn't seemed to help alleviate the issue. He chairs the Senate Judiciary Committee.

[Mike Weissman]

What experience has shown is that that mechanism is frankly, too narrow, too tight, too constrained to really work optimally. And it's provided a minimal amount of relief in terms of screening some of the inmates out who were close to getting out anyway under law and who had been adjudicated by the parole board to not pose a risk to public safety.

[Kyle McKinnon]

Okay, to translate that into plain English, he says the law isn't very effective because it's more of a symbolic measure that overcrowding is happening and it doesn't offer much in the way of relief or solutions like swiftly moving people out of prison that qualify.

[Bente Birkland]

So what does Weisman propose? Because I think, you know, from what I'm hearing from folks, they obviously don't want something that's just symbolic. They want it to be effective.

[Kyle McKinnon]

Yeah, exactly. He is taking another stab at trying to manage the prison population. He's co sponsoring a bill to require DOC to sound the alarm earlier on overcrowding and keep lawmakers updated on what it's doing to move people already eligible for parole out of prison faster.

[Bente Birkland]

But a bill like that is definitely more about getting ahead of the issue in the future. It won't change the situation in Colorado prisons today.

[Kyle McKinnon]

So what is the short term solution when the state can't fit any more people into its prisons? One word. Jail.

[Bente Birkland]

There is a growing backlog of people who've been convicted, sentenced to prison, but they haven't gone to a state prison. Instead, they're sitting in county jails.

[Sheriff Steve Reams]

But in the most recent months, it's gotten up to the point where we're holding sometimes between 30 and 50 inmates in my facility that are sentenced to the Department of Corrections and should be in the Department of Corrections.

[Kyle McKinnon]

This is Weld County Sheriff Steve Reams. He did say that this isn't a new issue. Weld county has housed some state inmates in its jails for months now. But when I spoke to him in the fall, the numbers were high enough that it was straining his operations.

[Sheriff Steve Reams]

That's at the expense of the, well, county taxpayers. Even if the state reimburses a certain amount for the housing of those inmates, it's insufficient for what it costs us to do business at the county level and it's just not our responsibility.

[Bente Birkland]

A lot of sheriffs have been upset about this for a while. More than a dozen sheriffs sent a letter to the governor last July asking for, quote, urgent action to address DOC's use of county jails to house state inmates. As it stands right now, the backlog of people in county jail waiting to transfer to a State Prison exceeds 700

[Kyle McKinnon]

reams signed onto that letter. And he said it's not just a capacity issue for jails and it's also that these aren't places that were intended to hold people after they've been found guilty of serious crimes.

[Bente Birkland]

Right. I mean, keep in mind, not everyone at a jail has been convicted of a crime. Some people in jail never will be and many are awaiting a trial. They're considered innocent until proven guilty. That's a much different scene than a state prison.

[Kyle McKinnon]

So these stopgap measures are straining another part of the criminal justice system and DOC has a pretty straightforward solution. It's time to spend more on prison beds, but lawmakers are getting increasingly wary of cutting more short term checks.

[Bente Birkland]

And that's what we'll get to next.

[Ryan Warner]

Purplish with ben to birkeland and kyle mckinnon this time. And I'm ryan warner here with colorado matters from cpr news.

[Bente Birkland]

Sam?

[Ryan Warner]

It's Colorado Matters from CPR News. I'm Ryan Warner. Colorado's prisons are close to capacity. That's been the case for some time now. It raises a host of concerns, not the least of which is safety. What's to be done? Let's return to Purplish. Here Again, KUNC's Kyle MacKinnon and CPR's. Then to Birkeland.

[Kyle McKinnon]

In a way, the solution to prisons being overcrowded is pretty simple. Just open up more prison space to hold more people. But then you look at the cost.

[Bente Birkland]

And as we've talked about in nearly every episode of Purplish recently, this is not a good year to be a state agency asking lawmakers for more money. The legislature is already trying to close nearly a billion dollar budget shortfall. And last year the state cut about 300 prison beds and that was to save money.

[Kyle McKinnon]

So when the department came to the budget committee in January asking for more money to Increase bed capacity. It got an unpleasant surprise. The committee said no.

[Bente Birkland]

Democratic lawmakers said holding up this money is a way to push back on the Polis administration. Democratic Budget Chair Representative Emily Sirota explained her thinking.

[Emily Sirota]

I want to know what it is the administration is going to do and going to support beyond just continued requests for more beds, building more prisons and spending more money. In that respect. How are we going to take a more holistic view of this?

[Bente Birkland]

Another Democrat on the committee, Senator Judy Amabile, asked DOC why they're just asking money for more beds and not money to help people get out on parole faster.

[Senator Judy Amabile]

If people don't have access to these things that they need in order to be parole eligible, then I don't understand why we're not asking for money to get more treatment providers in there. I was at Lyman the other day and I did hear people say, well, I need this thing I got before the parole board. But because I hadn't been able to take this class, this treatment, I was denied. And so that's a real frustration, I

[Gregory Howell]

think,

[Senator Judy Amabile]

for me and I think for others on this committee.

[Bente Birkland]

And I want to add, yes, this request for beds is millions of dollars, but it's just a fraction of the overall Department of Corrections budget request. And the Budget Committee did approve things like payments to jails and money for contract medical staff. And that's so healthcare services are not going to be interrupted.

[Kyle McKinnon]

Well, interestingly enough, Benta, the two Republicans on the committee did, did vote for the funding, but said they're not happy with the Department of Corrections either. One of those two committee votes belongs to Senator Barbara Kirkmeyer.

[Senator Barbara Kirkmeyer]

The issue is not going away just because you don't want to fund it or whatever. I don't disagree with that. There should be better planning. I've said for a few years now that this is not that. This is one of the worst managed departments. This is one of the worst managed administrations that I've been around since 1992. So don't agree. I don't disagree that there needs to be better planning.

[Bente Birkland]

A state audit also backed up this need for more planning. It said DOC has, quote, not used a consistent, accurate and transparent methodology to develop and justify its budget requests. This audit recommends just a lot more planning to address root issues. So how to recruit staff, how to make sure the department can accurately calculate what progress prison capacity is going to be so the state can budget for the realities on the ground?

[Mike Weissman]

I think the audit was very thorough and we agree and we needed to improve. We don't disagree with that.

[Kyle McKinnon]

That funding denial did turn out to be a bit of legislative theater. My favorite. A week later, the Democrats reversed course and did agree to fund those nearly 800 additional prison beds. And the lawmakers who flipped and changed their minds said they were worried about safety within the prison system if they didn't approve that funding. But their underlying concerns remained.

[Bente Birkland]

We still have a bit of a cliffhanger here because the funding issue isn't fully resolved. So the budget committee returned to discuss prison beds, and this was in early March. This is a request as part of next year's budget. So it's the budget lawmakers are going to be passing this session. The committee once again voted not to continue funding even more prison beds.

[Kyle McKinnon]

I mean, even the nonpartisan JBC budget committee staff have been showing some exasperation with DOC and its lack of a strategic plan.

[Justin Bracke]

As far as I'm concerned, and what I can see in my time here in six years and in the historical record is that the JBC is the only one doing strategic work in this space.

[Bente Birkland]

But that's JBC staffer Justin Bracke.

[Justin Bracke]

The jbc, in my view, has been carrying a lot of water in this, and I think it's time to not do that anymore. I think it's not sustainable or practical in that. Yeah, I think at this point, the JBC should just let things, you know, if you get budget requests, deal with those as they come. Otherwise, let the consequences of the existing system play out. And if that means letting things fail, then you let things fail.

[Bente Birkland]

We should add that the union that represents the state employees working in these facilities also opposes funding the beds without a solution to increase staffing. A lot of staff are working overtime shifts, working really long hours. There's burnout, and it can be a very dangerous job.

[Kyle McKinnon]

Right. So it's tough on the staffers, and the DOC officials themselves are frustrated. Here's executive director Stancil again telling lawmakers there's just not much he can do to fix prison overcrowding when it's the larger justice system that decides who should be in prison and for how long.

[Moses Andre Stancil]

I'm always open to work with and collaborate with anyone that wants to address DOC concerns. I'm always available because we want to be a partner. As a director, I am not asking for more individuals, but I want to make it clear as a director, I don't have a lot of leverage to pull to reduce the population independently.

[Bente Birkland]

DOC officials argue the legislature itself has passed laws that are contributing to this problem. Republican representative Matt Soper has been in the Capitol for a while, and I asked him about that and he does think there's some truth to it.

[Matt Soper]

DOC is between a rock and a hard place. They have laws that they have to follow that we've passed here in the legislature. They have a culture that exists that in many ways is kind of a defeatist accepting culture, and they need to be able to start turning that around. But I'm seeing rays of sunshine. They have some really good new hires up at the top.

[Bente Birkland]

Soper points to the head of parole, a new hire that he thinks is really trying to make a difference. And a spokesperson for the poll is a Administration told me back in January that the executive branch does have a plan. They're trying to do things like protect the safety of staff and inmates and try to create programs that help offenders get back into communities faster and not recommit crimes.

[Kyle McKinnon]

Benta I heard from the administration that they're exploring different options, including a new prison. That would be a pretty significant move and a whole separate policy discussion.

[Bente Birkland]

And they're about to have that policy discussion. The governor's budget director, Mark Ferrandino, just brought the ask to the jbc. He said projections for the inmate population show that Colorado needs to start the process now to reopen one of the closed prisons in the state, since it'll take a while to get a prison up and running and able to accept inmates.

[Unidentified Host/Moderator]

We're in a tough situation and I think we want to try and find solutions both on the how do we get people out where we can and how do we make sure that we, both for the offenders as well as the staff, we have the right capacity levels to make sure that they are safe and can continue to be in a safe position.

[Bente Birkland]

This request just further frustrated some lawmakers like Senator Judy Amabile. Beds are one thing, but opening a whole new facility, much less two, that's something else.

[Senator Judy Amabile]

I feel like it would be an obscene misuse of public funds to build out to buy and build out a prison when we have hundreds of people waiting in our jails to get to a hospital, people who are criminally criminal justice involved.

[Bente Birkland]

Ultimately, this decision on prison beds doesn't rest solely at the feet of the Joint Budget Committee. It will eventually go before the full legislature when lawmakers discuss and pass the budget.

[Kyle McKinnon]

And there are plenty of lawmakers who philosophically oppose the idea of growing the corrections budget. Lawmakers like Senator Julie Gonzalez, a Denver Democrat, are looking at this DOC funding request and thinking what else in the state budget will take a hit if they give corrections more money? Would that money be better spent some other place?

[Bente Birkland]

Do we want to spend millions of dollars on private prisoners beds or do we want to spend those dollars on health care, education, transportation? It is very tough, especially in a tight budget year, to ask lawmakers to fund a new prison or two. I think we can expect a pretty fiery discussion when the full legislature debates the budget. Between this prison request and Medicaid cuts, there are a lot of really hard choices. Voices ahead.

[Kyle McKinnon]

This whole policy discussion really touches on something you see at the state legislature, that being the ebb and flow of policymakers views on crime and the criminal justice system more broadly. Over the last few decades, we've seen waves of tough on crime policies that send more people to prison and then the focus shifts to justice reforms to try to reduce incarceration and then back again to tough on crime. And several people I spoke with say that's a big factor here, including Kyle Giddings with the advocacy group Colorado Criminal Justice Reform Coalition.

[Kyle Giddings]

Everyone's scared of looking soft on crime, but we're asking the question for like, what does it mean to be serious about crime, though? Because just locking up people isn't actually a serious response to individuals who are struggling with addiction or individuals who are just struggling to like, maintain their jobs. That's not serious. I wouldn't even say it's being tough that's being irresponsible.

[Bente Birkland]

I think a lot of lawmakers do have compassion across the spectrum of people dealing with mental health issues and substance abuse issues. At the same time, there is this task of protecting public safety. Just a few years ago, Colorado ranked very high nationally for rates of violent crime and property theft. So it's trying to hold those two things, keep the system working, let people out who aren't a danger as fast as possible. But at the same time, you want to make sure that's accurate and you are keeping people safe. So it's such a difficult balance.

[Kyle McKinnon]

And we'll also have a new governor next year, and we don't know yet what way that will swing the pendulum or influence this debate.

[Ryan Warner]

Kunc city editor Kyle McKinnon and CPR public affairs reporter Benta Birkeland Purplish is CPR's podcast about policy and politics in association with the Capitol News Alliance. That alliance also includes the Colorado sun and Rocky Mountain PBS. And Colorado Matters continues into this next half hour with an indie newspaper in Pueblo that, among other things, publishes prison essays. I'm Ryan Warner. You're with CPR News and krcc. You're back With Colorado Matters from CPR News and krcc, I'm Ryan Warner. The Prison Journalism Project trains and publishes writers who are incarcerated, like Tavion Williams, who wrote about life at Sterling Correctional Facility in northeastern Colorado. We'll hear a snippet of his essay now read by reporter Molly Cotner. She forged a partnership between her paper, the Pueblo Star Journal, and the Prison journalism project.

[Gregory Howell]

For 13 years, I lived in concrete giants, Sterling Correctional Facility and Lyman Correctional Facility, prisons so harsh they etched themselves into your posture, your pace, your sense of possibility, institutions where hope felt like contraband and vulnerability was a liability, where I learned to keep my head down and my heart armored. Then in April 2025, I was transferred to a prison 50 minutes southwest of Colorado Springs called the Beacon at Skyline.

[Molly Cotner]

Indeed, Williams was in a pilot program called the Beacon at Skyline. It's focused, quote, on creating space for self improvement and an increased level of choice. He really writes about it beautifully. There were some poetic turns of phrase there. Why did you want to publish the essay?

[Gregory Howell]

Well, I think it's beautiful. He's telling a story that is not often told, and it gives us insight into a perspective and a truth that doesn't usually hit traditional journalism.

[Molly Cotner]

I mean, it's not easy one even to get into a correctional facility if you are a journalist. I mean, I don't have to tell you that. Maybe talk about how this increases access to a way of life versus what you could achieve as a reporter on the beat.

[Gregory Howell]

Yeah, I think that when we're talking about access, even as a journalist, I could not report this story from my position. There's no way that I could go in and tell this truth. I'm not there day in and day out.

[Ryan Warner]

Molly Cotner of the Pueblo Star Journal. She'll be back shortly to discuss the Prison Journalism Project and how her nonprofit paper has managed to keep its doors open for five years now in southern Colorado. First, though, Tavion Williams is no longer incarcerated. He's been in a halfway house since February. Here he is in his own words.

[Sam]

I spent the majority of my sentence those 13 years, six months, I spent the majority of that in Sterling. I've been to quite a few different facilities. And what makes Sterling just such a hard place to do time is there's no nature. You begin to forget the beauty of not just Colorado and the mountains, but just nature in itself. Then I get moved to Skyline and I walk out in the back and it's one of the most for those that have not been to Canyon City, it is one of the most Beautiful sightings ever. I walk onto the compound and I look around, I spin around 360 and I'm like, wow, look at the mountains. There's some exceptional men behind these walls. And you would never know it until you get there. Because I honestly, I've met the smartest, the best artists, some of the best athletes. You, you're back here and you're like, man, all these fallen stars, endless potential. We've done wrong. And for anyone that is listening, that may be a victim. I feel for them and I understand that they may feel, feel that, hey, they should just go in there and just be buried and die. I'm a huge advocate for the guys inside having a voice, because if they don't say it, who else is going to say it? There's so much that goes on that people will never know. I need to, needed help with identity. Identity was crucial. I didn't know who I really was. Secondly, I needed to learn emotional regulation. I mean, I see adults, we're adults, and we still struggle to navigate the emotional realm, whether it's developing a meditation regimen to aid you through life or being able to de escalate when you, you get angry, like you're going to feel things, emotions are going to come your way. It's. What do you do when they come? My first couple years, I wasn't even reading. I didn't even have a discipline to do it. I really wasn't educated. I was never this, this book smart type of kid.

[Senator Barbara Kirkmeyer]

Right, right.

[Sam]

I was never the one to just pick up a book. It took me one year to read one book. I told myself when I went to prison that it wouldn't be in vain. I feel extremely privileged to be who I am today. I published five books, but I also have 16 more children's books written and illustrated, all ready to go. One of the books is called Boys Cry 2. Anger. Anger go away. I wrote, wrote one called Rising Above Fear. And then there's one called Saying Goodbye. What I wanted it to be is a tool to help parents navigate the brittle conversation of death. Because although it's bleak, it's a reality and children are going to experience it, be it their grandparents or their pet, or maybe it's a tragic accident, they lose one of their fairings. And so how do we have these type of conversations? So fishing for potential literary agents and one step at a time, because there's so much that I want to do and I can't do it all overnight.

[Ryan Warner]

Writer, father and former prisoner Tavion Williams of Denver, his Essays with the Prison Journalism Project have run in the prison Pueblo Star Journal. After a break, we'll learn more about that collaboration and about this scrappy nonprofit newspaper. This is Colorado Matters from CPR News. It's Colorado Matters from CPR News. I'm Ryan Warner. We seem to hear non stop about the decay of local journalism. The nonprofit Pueblo Star Journal has managed to buck the trend. They're celebrating five years. Let's learn a bit more about their coverage and their work specifically with the Prison Journalism Project. I met reporter Molly Cotner in the newsroom on North Main.

[Molly Cotner]

Why did the partnership with the Prison Journalism Project happen? And I have to think at least the proximity to the massive complex in Canyon City, 11 correctional facilities, had something to do with it.

[Gregory Howell]

Absolutely. We have long been talking about the fact that we live in the backyard of Prison Valley here. And, you know, I mean, that's just where we exist. And so much of our town is influenced by that. How it came about was recognizing that they were doing the work that we wanted to do. Why not reach out to them? Why not talk with them and say, hey, what does this look like?

[Molly Cotner]

What was the term? I've never heard this term in all my years in Colorado. You called this Prison Valley?

[Gregory Howell]

Yes, absolutely. It's well known that Canyon City is called Prison Valley for exactly that purpose. There are so many correctional facilities, including the federal supermax. I mean, the entire kind of ecosystem is really built on these many prisons that exist there.

[Molly Cotner]

So just like maybe a few brass tacks, how do you get an essay like the one Tavion Williams wrote published? I mean, you've got to make an

[Ryan Warner]

inroad into the correctional facility. You got to find someone who wants to tell their story.

[Molly Cotner]

You've got a wordsmith with them.

[Gregory Howell]

This was the beauty of working with the Prison Journalism Project because they did a lot of that heavy lifting for us. They already have established working in prisons and correctional facilities and how they work with prisoners. And then they happened to say, hey, listen, we have somebody who is in your backyard and we're working already with this person. Would you be interested in what the essay looks like? And we said, absolutely, let's read it. Let's look through. It was really great. Is that we could provide some of our own feedback like editing. They did a really great job being our partner in allowing, allowing us to exist in that with them.

[Molly Cotner]

Are you looking forward to more voices?

[Gregory Howell]

Absolutely. Pueblo already we are looking at a new detention center that's being built and it is causing quite the stir. And so this is Very much part and parcel to everything that's happening right now with us.

[Ryan Warner]

What sort of detention center?

[Gregory Howell]

It's a jail. It's a new county jail. It's really interesting. It was turned down by voters twice already, and it's still being built. And there are ongoing questions about why it's being built, particularly with our town struggling financially, like for who it's being built. These are questions I think we have to ask and we've been asking, and why this is happening. And so absolutely, the Prison journalism project and our work, they coincide with one another. And I think those voices are important. They have to be out there.

[Molly Cotner]

Is there any more of the essay you'd like to read?

[Gregory Howell]

He also talks about the staff, which I think was so beautiful. He said, at most prisons, whatever comes out the tray slot is what you get to eat. No questions asked here. Those serving us ask what we want on our trays. The staff greet us with warm smiles. One of the servers, Ms. Bonnie, will occasionally ask us to perform a quick dance to get our food. There are no assigned seats for races or gangs. No sitting at a table with both of your feet on one side, prepared to jump up if something pops off. When I first arrived, I was startled when two staff members sat down to eat dinner with me. That's normal here. It feels like you're eating at a local restaurant.

[Molly Cotner]

And this is a picture of a prison as well, of a correctional environment we're not all that familiar with. It's not exactly what's depicted in, I

[Ryan Warner]

don't know, Orange is the New Black

[Molly Cotner]

or Oz or something Oz. Deep cut there. Okay.

[Gregory Howell]

Absolutely. I think that what we tend to think about when we think about justice or prisons strips away human dignity. I think this is just a really unique way of looking at justice from a restorative justice lens, but also like the ways in which Colorado is embracing that.

[Molly Cotner]

Was he paid for this?

[Gregory Howell]

Yes, he was paid our standard rate that we pay all freelance journalists.

[Molly Cotner]

Why was that important to you?

[Gregory Howell]

We think that it's important, I mean, to pay people for their work. This is also workforce development. It's providing professional materials for him to use as he's transitioning out of prison. It's really important. It's also about being fair.

[Molly Cotner]

Okay, stepping back. The Pueblo Star journal launched in 2021. So year five. I noticed that you've begun an editorial cartoon, Steel City Lucy. I saw a piece from you, Molly, about childcare independent small to medium town journalism. Are you gonna make it? How have you lasted five years?

[Gregory Howell]

You know, I think That's a great question. I think that this is something sometimes we probably ask ourselves too, like we're just crazy enough to keep pushing. We are also living in a news desert. Pueblo does not have great local storytelling.

[Molly Cotner]

That's a little dig on the chieftain right there.

[Gregory Howell]

It's not meant to be a dig on the chieftain. It's meant to be really factual. We don't have great local storytelling, really digging into the heart of our culture and our people. We're a really beautiful town. This is a town that gets forgotten by the rest of Colorado, too. But we're pushing all the time, and we come up with the craziest ideas and we say, why the hell not?

[Molly Cotner]

Do you want to give me a crazy idea you've done? I'm not trying to steal your story ideas, but I love that idea of, you know, it's kind of the journalistic equivalent of a writer's room, you know?

[Gregory Howell]

Absolutely. I think that we often pride ourselves in not being the traditional J School graduates. I mean, even though many of us did graduate from J School and the traditional J Schools. We have a museum that is going to be open here in Pueblo called the Leonardo Da Vinci Museum of North America. That museum has taken up the marketing that they are the first and kind of only da Vinci museum in North America. And that's not true. Gregory Howell and I, our managing editor and one of our co founders, we decided that we were going to track down the other da Vinci museums, and we have found them and we're interviewing them and we're looking at are they doing right? What are they not doing right? And we call it In Search of Da Vinci. And we've. It's real journalism, it's investigative journalism, and it's looking at those things, but it's to help our readers. But also it's one of those things where we sat around one day and we said, this can't be.

[Molly Cotner]

Anytime someone says, I'm the first, the best, the fastest, the oldest, the youngest, the strangest, I think, how do you know? But the point is that you're not buying the kind of eco devoiry chamber of commerce line about this presumably boost to the economy.

[Gregory Howell]

I think it's also just a testament to what we believe. We live in a somewhat small town. I know that it doesn't seem like a small town, but if you're from Pueblo, we call it the one degree of separation. Everybody knows everybody here, and I think we're just not afraid to rock the boat. And I think sometimes it's good for the people here to have their boat rocked a little bit.

[Molly Cotner]

So you've called other da Vinci museums. They plainly exist in North America?

[Gregory Howell]

Absolutely, yes. We've had interviews with them and we have a whole series of articles that are coming out.

[Molly Cotner]

Oh, before I let you go, just back to that childcare series I glancingly mentioned. You were one of just a few reporters in the country, I think, to get special support to cover the childcare question. Why did they choose.

[Ryan Warner]

No, knock on you.

[Molly Cotner]

Why did they choose you in Pueblo? What is it about the scene here that makes this a relevant conversation?

[Gregory Howell]

First of all, we have a childcare crisis here. Our economy, our culture. Specifically, we're looking at how friends and families and neighbor networks are actually stepping in to take care of the infrastructure that is lacking. We're really looking into those stories, the stories of the real people who are filling the gaps.

[Molly Cotner]

That is, if the social safety net doesn't exist through, say, government or even nonprofits, you start to see almost like informal webs created. I don't want to sound too sociological, even though I do.

[Gregory Howell]

Well, first of all, I love the sociological because I'm a sociologist, so that's beautiful. But yes, absolutely, you see those networks start to step in, and that is also linked to culture here. We have a culture in Pueblo where family ties, taking care of one another. That's something that is really built into the cultural fabric here. And I think that IRE really saw the benefit in doing that.

[Molly Cotner]

Ire? Investigative reporters and editors.

[Ryan Warner]

Thank you so much for chatting with me.

[Gregory Howell]

Thank you so much for coming.

[Ryan Warner]

Coming reporter Molly Cotner speaking with me in the newsroom at the Pueblo Star Journal. The nonprofit digital and print publication is marking five years. They recently teamed up with the Prison Journalism Project,

[Molly Cotner]

And that is colorado matters

[Ryan Warner]

for now, with thanks to our team.

[Kyle McKinnon]

Sandy butulga, tyler bender, carl bielek, anthony cotton, pete kramer, andrea dukakis, zan huckpechone,

[David Carrillo]

matt herz, tom hess, michael hughes, pedro

[Sam]

lumbragno, shane rumsey, haley sanchez, chandra thomas whitfield, and.

[Ryan Warner]

And I'm ryan warner. Thanks for spending time with us at cpr news nkrcc.