May 11, 2026: A Colorado Iranian shares her dad's life in war; Gardening in a drought; The art of tattoos

Summary

Colorado Matters - May 11, 2026

Episode Summary: A Colorado Iranian Shares Her Dad’s Life in War; Gardening in a Drought; The Art of Tattoos

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Overview

In this episode, hosts Ryan Warner and Chandra Thomas Whitfield delve into a trio of distinct yet timely topics relevant to Colorado and beyond. The show opens with a moving exploration of contemporary life in Iran through the eyes of a local Iranian professor and her father living in Tehran. Next, the focus shifts to practical advice for resilient gardening amid Colorado's intensifying drought. The episode concludes with a look at the hidden history—and artistry—of tattooing in Colorado, centered on a new museum exhibit and an in-depth conversation with a tattoo historian.

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1. A Glimpse Into Modern Iran: An Iranian-American Professor Shares Her Father’s Story

Segment: 00:00–13:44

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Everyday Realities in Iran

  • Shadeh Dashti, an engineering professor at CU Boulder, discusses regular, open conversations with her father still living in Iran.
    • Her father's perspective: hopeful yet recognizing most around him are not. Sees government support rallies as staged, with widespread real opposition.
    • “They bring their own supporters to the streets and display strong signs of support for the new Supreme Leader… The real people...are fed up by it.” — Shadeh Dashti (01:51)
  • Government repression affects everyone; most stay silent due to fear for their children’s safety.

• Impact of War and Internet Shutdown

  • Recent U.S. and Israeli attacks killed Iran’s Supreme Leader; severe repercussions for dissent.
  • Iran's government habitually shuts down the internet during unrest—ostensibly to counter espionage, but functionally to control information.
    • “Instead of caring about the safety of their own people during a military attack, the first thing they did is shut down the Internet.” — Shadeh Dashti (04:15)

• Economic Collapse

  • Not a lack of food or medicine, but astronomical inflation—basic foods like meat, eggs, and dairy now luxuries.
    • “Even within one week...Eating meat has become a luxury for most families.” — Shadeh Dashti (05:32)

• Protest Movements and Brutality

  • January protests—the largest since 1979—met with brutal, deadly force: “There are claims...in the order of 40,000 people were killed... Most people that you would talk to, they know somebody who has been killed. People that are like teenagers, 12 year olds, 15 year olds...the bravest of, you know, people were murdered.” (08:06–08:54)
  • Motivation for older generations: make amends for the mistakes of 1979 and not pass on pain to their children.

• Cultural Contradictions and Hope

  • Iran’s daily life is full of contradictions: ongoing violence and repression, juxtaposed with the country’s rich cultural legacy and the empowering role of women behind closed doors.
    • “Whenever I think about those days, I...remember a combination of incredibly beautiful things next to incredibly ugly things.” — Shadeh Dashti (09:52)
  • Despite repression, the young generation combines ancient values with modern thinking, offering hope for a different future.

• The Need to Speak Out

  • A pivotal change after the Woman Life Freedom Movement—if young children are risking everything, “what am I? Who cares about my safety?” (12:54)

Notable Quotes

• “He just wants to make sure that he gets out as much information as possible because it’s more important to him to get that voice out than to be worried about his own safety.” — Shadeh Dashti (03:23)
• “This is a mistake we made in 1979, and we want to go fix it and not transfer the pain to the next generation.” — Shadeh Dashti (06:41)
• “The next generation is...an interesting blend that I don’t remember...It’s a very interesting generation that just gives me hope for the future.” — Shadeh Dashti (11:41)

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2. Gardening in a Drought: Practical Advice for a Dry Year

Segment: 13:46–27:15

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Choosing Water-wise Plants

  • Sam Nilsen, head grower at Phalen Gardens in Colorado Springs, shares her favorite drought-tolerant plants:
    • Native Colorado plants like Apache Plume and Rabbit Brush.
    • Plant Select varieties like Denver Daisy and the new Moroccan Pincushion—“She’s a little low-growing matte [with] big pink firework looking flowers. They’re really fun.” — Sam Nilsen (19:14)
  • Importance of "Coloradoscaping" or “xeriscaping”—gardening with local, drought-resistant species.

• Heat/Drought-Tolerant Edibles

  • Herbs: thyme, oregano, rosemary, sage. Vegetables: okra and hot peppers thrive in heat and need less water than standard garden fare.
    • “Instead of lettuce, I would try doing Swiss chard and kale—they can take a little bit more drought and heat.” — Sam Nilsen (20:19)
  • Avoid: cucumbers, big tomatoes (cherry types are better), squash, and especially basil (“she is a water lover”).

• Gardening Under Water Restrictions

  • Deep, less frequent watering is recommended—extending the interval increases drought resilience but requires more attention: “Try doing [watering] every three to four days, watering them really deeply and then less frequently, and just keep an eye on how long it does take them to droop.” (24:43)
  • Drought-stressed peppers, in particular, can produce more intense flavor as a “benefit of stress.” (25:13-25:25)

• Pest and Disease Management

  • Drought increases pest and disease risk if plants become too dry; watch for the fine line between "drought-tolerant" and "too dry."

• Tree Care Q&A

  • Advice for apple trees: Remove "suckers" from the base to allow the main tree to thrive; products like "Sucker Punch" can help (22:43–23:15).

• Fertilizer Shortages

  • Some fertilizer brands are hard to get due to rising costs and shipping issues: “They're trying to charge us just astronomical numbers for that freight.” — Sam Nilsen (22:06)

Memorable Moments

• Lighthearted banter: “You watch your mouth, Sam.” — Ryan Warner in response to “suckers” (22:48)
• “Other gardeners might turn to fake plants to dress up their yard. Is that a good idea or is it just like a big bait and switch for pollinators and those little hummingbirds?” — Ryan Warner (25:44)
  • Sam Nilsen: Not a good idea; real plants support pollinators and nature.

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3. The Art of Tattoos: Colorado’s Hidden Tattoo Heritage

Segment: 27:17–48:42

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• History of Tattooing in Colorado

  • Guest Scott Boyer (tattoo historian, Yellow Beak Press) discusses “Colorado Nick” Wisner, a famed tattoo artist whose work is featured in a new exhibit at the Pioneers Museum.
    • Nick tattooed WWII, Korea, and Vietnam era soldiers, mainly in Colorado Springs, but worked across the U.S.; always returned to Colorado.
    • “He was a war era tattooer, primarily based out of Colorado Springs...tattooed across the street from Sailor Jerry in Hawaii.” — Scott Boyer (29:02)
  • Nick’s mother played a pivotal role in his life; a “Mother” sparrow tattoo enlarged in the museum honors this (30:07–30:31).

• Tattoo Techniques and Culture

  • Flash sheets: Painted “menus” of tattoos used by artists of Nick’s era. Customers picked designs, and the artist applied the corresponding stencil.
    • “A unique painting style where the tattooer would actually use their spit to draw out gradients in color and black shading.” — Scott Boyer (30:44)
  • Tattooing was once working-class, itinerant work; artists often traveled with all their gear in boxes or trunks—some virtually self-built machines (35:11–35:57).

• Motifs, Themes, and Legacy

  • Strong motifs: Hearts, birds, power animals (eagles, panthers), patriotism, women, weapons—reflecting the wartime zeitgeist.
    • “You see a lot of what people call power animals. Eagle, panther, tiger...Some of Nick’s best work, in my opinion, are his eagles.” — Scott Boyer (37:29)
  • Tattoos as lived history: “All their clients are living embodiments of their life’s work.” — Ryan Warner (42:09)
  • Significance of documentation: Tattoos are impermanent (fade with age/death of client); preserving flash sheets and memorabilia is crucial for legacy.

• Shifting Perception and Stigma

  • Tattooing’s journey from upper-class/high-art in Japan to Western working-class subculture and eventual mainstream acceptance.
    • “I think it’s important...people are going to understand that, wow, these guys were skilled artists. They were craftsmen at what they do, and they operated kind of in the shadows and under the radar.” — Scott Boyer (39:41)
  • Now, museums are acquiring flash sheets and old equipment as folk art.

• Tattoo Stories and Lasting Impact

  • Tattoo designs endure through time as both living and visual art; the show includes Boyer getting a Nick Wisner flash tattoo at the exhibit.
    • “It just seemed fitting as a way to close off the exhibit.” — Scott Boyer (40:15)
  • The process of researching and assembling the book and exhibit took a decade, bearing personal and historical significance for Boyer.

Notable Quotes

• “When a tattoo artist dies, all their clients are living embodiments of their life's work.” — Ryan Warner (42:09)
• “This is a part of our history that people may not know about.” — Scott Boyer (46:45)
• “You look at these designs and think, like, where was Nick at when he painted this? What was he trying to convey?” — Scott Boyer (47:34)
• “Any good artwork has energy like this. But to me…these designs being replicated in modern times is really how these guys' legacy gets to carry forward.” — Scott Boyer (41:35)

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Notable Timestamps

• 01:51–06:18: Shadeh Dashti on life, fear, protests, and economic crisis in Iran.
• 13:46–20:54: Drought gardening best practices and plant recommendations.
• 22:43–23:15: Apple tree sucker management.
• 27:17–31:15: The artistry and history of Nick Wisner, tattoo flash sheets.
• 39:41–41:35: Stigma, legacy, and art of tattooing; how museums are reshaping perceptions.
• 42:09–42:20: Reflection on living legacies of tattoo artists.

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “Imagine there are claims…that say in the order of 40,000 people were killed…most people you talk to know someone who has been killed.” — Shadeh Dashti (08:54)
• “Trade your basil, perhaps, for thyme.” — Ryan Warner (21:32)
• On museum walls: “If I go to the Louvre and I see the Mona Lisa…this is a chance to have history emblazoned on your body.” — Ryan Warner (41:13)

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Tone and Approach

• The episode moves gracefully from heartfelt and sobering (Iranian stories of resilience and survival), through practical and accessible (gardening tips laced with humor), to reverential and energetic (the often-overlooked artistry and colorful history of tattooing). The hosts foster a space for expertise, personal anecdotes, and nuanced storytelling.

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Final Thoughts

With this episode, Colorado Matters offers listeners a compassionate window into global events with local resonance, immediate and actionable advice for navigating environmental challenges, and a revelatory appreciation for art forms hidden in plain sight. The interviews are informative, engaging, and full of subtle humor and humanity.

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Transcript

[Ryan Warner]

From cpr news, this is colorado matters. A Colorado professor is often on the phone with her dad in Iran, getting a glimpse of life there and of death.

[Shadeh Dashti]

Most people that you talk to, they know somebody who has been killed.

[Ryan Warner]

Then. Drought is an opportunity to choose water wise plants.

[Sam Nilsen]

We have a new one this year. It's called the Moroccan pincushion, and I love her. She, she's a little low growing matte foliage, and then she shoots up these big pink firework looking flowers. They're really fun.

[Ryan Warner]

The head grower at a Colorado Springs nursery also steers us clear of some plants that are just too thirsty. And a museum opens its doors to artists with tattoo guns.

[Scott Boyer]

People are gonna understand that, wow, these guys were skilled artists. They were craftsmen at what they do. And they operated kind of in the shadows and under the radar of most people.

[Ryan Warner]

This is Colorado Matters. From CPR News and krcc, I'm Ryan Moerner. As much as we hear about Iran, there's a lot we don't know about daily life and politics there. The Internet's largely been shut down and Iranians fear retribution if they speak out. Sade Dashti is a professor at the University of Colorado, Boulder. She speaks regularly with her father who lives in Iran. She also spoke with our Andrea Dukakis.

[Andrea Dukakis]

You grew up in Iran and then moved to the US in 1999 when you were a teenager. And you speak with your dad fairly often. And unlike a lot of people there, he shares his views freely with you about the government and the situation there. Now, what kind of a picture does your father paint about what it's like to live in the country these days?

[Shadeh Dashti]

Well, a complicated picture that doesn't, doesn't show one view. He generally thinks that things are going to get better. He's hopeful, but many don't share that view. He sees, you know, on a daily basis going to the streets kind of like a show played by the government. They bring their own supporters to the streets and display strong signs of support for the new supreme leader. And then at the same time, the real people that are the same people who came out for the protests in January, they're very much against this government and they're fed up by it. So it all exists. And there are people who are extremely against this regime, but they're also not happy with the war. There are people who were hoping for an external intervention, and they became more hopeful with the US Attacks. And there are people who are a very small minority that actually support the government. They all coexist.

[Andrea Dukakis]

Right? And you Mentioned the new supreme Leader. I should say that the war and the attack that the US And Israel launched on Iran killed the former supreme leader. Is your father concerned about the possible repercussions of speaking out and talking to you freely about these issues? Issues?

[Shadeh Dashti]

You know, I asked him if he's worried about talking about the government and he said no. Everybody else that he knows is worried and they're cautious, rightfully so, but he doesn't care. He just wants to make sure that he gets out as much information as possible because it's more important to him to get that voice out than to be worried about his own safety. And, you know, granted, he doesn't have any children in Iran, so it's just him. I'm outside and I'm an only child. So most people who are silent is because I'm worried about their kids, according

[Andrea Dukakis]

to him, that there could be reprisals against their kids if they speak out?

[Shadeh Dashti]

Yes.

[Andrea Dukakis]

What does your father say and what do you hear others saying about how the lack of Internet access has affected them?

[Shadeh Dashti]

Oh, it has devastated so many that I know many depend on the Internet for their livelihoods. And you know, Iran's government, their first response to protests internally is usually to shut down the Internet so that they can basically control the narrative to the rest of the world. Now, since this war began, they followed a similar strategy under the claim that they want to avoid spy activities or control by foreign governments on spies and foreign agents inside Iran that are causing turbulence. But I think Iranians generally know better than that. This is just a common strategy of the government. Instead of caring about the safety of their own people during a military attack, the first thing they did is to shut down the Internet. Please me. That has been devastating for many small and large businesses in Iran.

[Andrea Dukakis]

And many say the Internet blackout in Iran is the country's effort to hide what's happening there. The economy in Iran has really faltered in recent years and it's only gotten worse since the war started. What have you heard about the prices of things there? Food, for example.

[Shadeh Dashti]

Yes. So what I read and what I hear from my own dad and cousins is that it's not that, at least up to this point, that there is a lack of various food items or even medicine. But everything has changed in terms of inflation. It's mind blowing. It's incredible how much the prices are changing. Even within one week. Many who were completely well off before this war are now struggling to put food on the table. Eating meat has become a luxury for most families. Eggs, dairy products that Kind of thing. It has become a luxury.

[Andrea Dukakis]

I want to go back to January, when Iranians took to the streets to protest the government, the Islamic Republic. The government responded with a brutal crackdown on protesters, shut down the Internet, and it's estimated thousands of Iranian citizens were killed. What, if anything, have you heard from your dad about that time?

[Shadeh Dashti]

Yeah, so he also participated, along with many others that I know. And I was worried because they usually, you know, the minimum they do is with pure gas. And my dad has lung conditions. And also it's hard for him to run when he needs to. So those are things that, you know, I was on my mind personally. But many in his generation keep saying that this is something. This is a mistake we made in 1979, and we want to go fix it and not transfer the pain to the next generation. The next generation needs to build the country. We need to go fix our own mistake. So I've heard that a lot from my dad and many in his generation. So I think the protests were the largest that we've ever seen since 1979. Iran is a pretty vibrant young population overall, and there are protests almost every year, but this one had a different flavor. And the main message was that we're done with reform and we want a change in the regime to work toward a secular democracy.

[Andrea Dukakis]

1979, I should say that's when the Islamic Republic came to power. I wonder if you were surprised at the level of brutality that occurred during that crackdown in January.

[Shadeh Dashti]

Yes and no. Every time there are protests, for example, the Women Life freedom Movement in 2022, there was again, you know, massive crackdown on the protesters. Many thousands of people were prisons, and then many were executed and continue to be executed. And this happens every few years. So this is not new. The scale of it was new. And the level of brutality, the way they killed people, child, you know, woman, doesn't matter. Everywhere, imagine the scale of how many tens of thousands they have killed, how many they are still executing and how many are still in prison with the claim that they're spies. This is really a different scale that we have never witnessed in Iran's modern history. So it was a major shock to the system. You know, imagine there are. There are claims, reputable claims, that say in the order of 40,000 people were killed. And, you know, it's really hard to verify this. And then the numbers really vary all over the place. And I can't say for sure what that number is, but it was very, very high. And most people that you would talk to, they know Somebody who has been killed. People that are like teenagers, 12 year olds, 15 year olds, beautiful people, the bravest of, you know, people were murdered. So it was a shock in terms of the severity and the scale of it.

[Andrea Dukakis]

You grew up in Iran and were born just after the Islamic revolution in the late 1970s. What do you remember about life in Iran back then?

[Shadeh Dashti]

Whenever I think about those days, I. It brings to my memory combination of incredibly beautiful things next to incredibly ugly things. So I was raised during essentially the eight year long war between Iran and Iraq. Many died in that pointless war, but it helped the Islamic Republic consolidate power, unfortunately. And there were often scenes of them hanging opposition groups, young people that were a part of, you know, let's say a communist party or another party that worked against the Slavic Republic. There were hangings in the streets. And I remember those scenes as a child. And, you know, that's in addition to the war and you know, just the violence of what that leaves. But next to that, there are memories of, you know, an ancient civilization that has one of the first records of human rights. That's Iris the Great. We would see these things, we would see ancient ruins of the Perspolis, incredible architecture, incredible art colors, just so much beauty in poetry and philosophy. And, you know, the value of education, you know, in the culture, the woman power, you know, that's so contradictory to what you would see advertised and taught by the government. But inside the homes, you know, culturally, women actually have a lot of power. So these are some things that, you know, the contradictions that I was raised with.

[Andrea Dukakis]

And do you have the sense that that's changed dramatically since you left the good parts?

[Shadeh Dashti]

I, I think the good things in some ways have gotten better. I see that the level of sophistication and education has amplified quite a bit. And the young generation is kind of at least presenting an interesting balance of ancient values and culture and modern science and art and philosophy. That is an interesting blend that I don't remember at least being exposed to when I was growing up. It's a very interesting generation that just gives me hope for the future. It's such an incredible mismatch with the values that the regime is trying to enforce. There's just absolutely no surprise that there's so much clash between the two, the people of Iran and the government, and it's just a matter of time. I think that they would need to submit to the people.

[Andrea Dukakis]

Why do you want to speak out now? Do you think if people outside of Iran speak out against the government that something could change?

[Shadeh Dashti]

You know, everything changed after the Woman Life Freedom movement. I think that was the first time we saw even, you know, a five year old or seven year old in the streets chanting woman Life freedom and speaking out against the government and these children at that age getting shot and killed by the government. That was a major change in many of our perspectives. And we just felt ashamed to be silent just so that we could return and see my father. I never spoke out before then and that was just a wake up call. We just decided that, you know, if a seven year old is speaking out, what am I? Who cares about my safety?

[Andrea Dukakis]

Shade, thanks so much.

[Shadeh Dashti]

Thank you. It was my pleasure.

[Ryan Warner]

My colleague Andrea Dukakis speaking with Shadeh Dashti, an associate engineering professor at CU Boulder. Her father lives in Iran. We'll be right back to answer your spring gardening questions. From apple trees to Water wise herbs, this is Colorado MATTERS from CPR news. Far be it from us to make you move on too quickly. We know some of you lost precious trees to the spring snowstorm, but we'd like to pick up the fallen branches and focus on the garden you want in the months ahead. Also, it's gonna be like 90 degrees. This week. I traveled to Phalen Gardens in Colorado Springs to meet up once again with head grower there, Sam Nilsen. She's going to answer my questions and yours. Sam, we could have stood anywhere in this sprawling greenhouse, but you chose this spot. Why?

[Sam Nilsen]

I chose this spot because I love nasturtiums. I think they're beautiful. They're edible. They're great for helping with aphid control. And we're also standing by some Kufia vermillionaire, which is one of the best hummingbird attracting annuals on the market. She's fabulous.

[Ryan Warner]

Kufia.

[Sam Nilsen]

Kufia.

[Ryan Warner]

Ver.

[Sam Nilsen]

Vermillionaire.

[Ryan Warner]

Vermillionaire. And kufia has this flower that looks as though it's made as a sleeve for a hummingbird's beak.

[Sam Nilsen]

Exactly. Yes. And that bright orange, when the plant is full, it's just orange from so far away. And they can see it and they come right to it. They love it.

[Ryan Warner]

What do nasturtiums taste like?

[Sam Nilsen]

They're kind of spicy and lettuce Y. Yeah.

[Ryan Warner]

And they come with magic powers in terms of pests.

[Sam Nilsen]

Yes. They are a good bunker plant, essentially. So people will plant them around their vegetable gardens and the aphids will be more attracted to the nasturtiums than anything else. So you'll still have the aphids, but they in theory, will all be on the Nasturtiums doing their thing there and everything else will be okay.

[Ryan Warner]

You know, this reminds me of the advice I got from a behavioralist about my cat. You can't just tell a cat no. You have to tell a cat yes as well. With aphids, it's not just saying, don't go here. It's providing an alternative.

[Sam Nilsen]

Exactly. Yes. You're always going to have them. Some people don't even realize they have them, but they are there. And so giving them something that they can say yes to and getting them off everything else is a great option.

[Ryan Warner]

I want to know what your life is like right now. I mean, it's all about inventory, isn't it?

[Sam Nilsen]

It is. People want certain things. We've got trucks coming in three to four a week. It's kind of a crazy time. We've been much busier, much earlier than we could have ever imagined.

[Ryan Warner]

Is that in part because of the warmth? The early warmth, yes.

[Sam Nilsen]

People wanted to start planting as early as they could. Especially we've been seeing it with our shrubs and perennials. More things have been ready and out for sale, so they're buying them and the vegetables. We couldn't have predicted this weather, so we did our normal plan. But people wanted tomatoes in March, which is abnormal.

[Ryan Warner]

People wanted tomatoes in March. Now, do these folks get bit in the rump by, you know, that snowstorm we had the other day?

[Sam Nilsen]

Yes, I am seeing people who were here in March looking for that kind of stuff, finding some. Some stuff we had available and they're now coming back because they put them out too soon and it got snowed on or killed by the cold.

[Ryan Warner]

What are the predominating questions you have from folks headed into a late spring and summer that is likely to be very, very dry and in which we're seeing any number of water restrictions in communities?

[Sam Nilsen]

That's basically the questions is people asking, you know, how they can keep their things alive or what they should or shouldn't plant with this drought that we're most likely going to experience or how to kind of handle this watering and the restrictions that we're going to be under.

[Ryan Warner]

Well, let's start with what we can plant the positive as opposed to what we should avoid planting what is beautiful and water wise.

[Sam Nilsen]

This is a great question. This is the best year to start planting natives in your yard. Colorado natives are so drought tolerant. They are so heat tolerant, and I wish everybody would plant natives. There's also a plant select program. Those are also very drought and heat tolerant. So if you can't Find natives as much. The Plant select program is also a great option to go. They'll still be very lush, beautiful blooming perennials.

[Ryan Warner]

And how do I find Plant Select?

[Sam Nilsen]

They all have a certain stick tag in them. It's like maroon and it very largely says plant select. We have to use those stick tags so people know we have a whole display full of them. I think a lot of places will keep them together.

[Ryan Warner]

Want to give us an example or two that has razzle dazzled you as

[Sam Nilsen]

far as natives go? I like Apache Plume. She's one of my favorites. Or Rabbit Brush is another really good one. And then in the Plant select program, you've got your classic Denver Daisy. She's considering considered a Plant select plant. And then we have a new one this year. It's called the Moroccan Pin Cushion and I love her. She's a little low growing matte foliage and then she shoots up these big pink firework looking flowers. They're really fun.

[Ryan Warner]

Oh, the pin cushion is immediately visible to me.

[Sam Nilsen]

Yes, they're really cool.

[Ryan Warner]

Say those first two that were Colorado

[Sam Nilsen]

scaping, the Rabbit Brush and Apache Plume are both considered natives here and we do sell both of those.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay. I read an article that Denver Water, which coined the phrase xeriscaping, meaning to landscape with what is, you know, native to your area that is now out the window even though Denver Water coined it and that we're supposed to say Coloradoscaping now. Is this a term you use either of those?

[Sam Nilsen]

Frankly, xeric scaping I'm definitely more familiar with. I like Colorado scaping. I haven't heard that one as much.

[Ryan Warner]

Listener Chris Stevens asks, what are some vegetables and herbs that can tolerate the summer heat and Denver's water restrictions?

[Sam Nilsen]

Yes. So herbs, thyme, oregano, rosemary and sage are really great options. They are all pretty drought tolerant. And then as far as versus vegetable goes, I've heard okra is quite drought tolerant. I've never done it myself, but I've heard a lot of people doing that this year. Hot peppers, chili peppers, they like the heat and drought. They can take that. And then instead of lettuce, I would try doing like Swiss chard and kale. They can take a little bit more drought and heat than your leafy lettuces can.

[Ryan Warner]

Interesting. It makes sense that they'd be heartier. They feel heartier in my stomach.

[Sam Nilsen]

Exactly. Yes.

[Ryan Warner]

What should we avoid in a dry year that maybe we're accustomed to planting in Colorado?

[Sam Nilsen]

This one makes me a little sad because it's my favorite things. But cucumbers they really take a lot of water. I wouldn't recommend trying those too much this year. Tomatoes can kind of go either way. Cherry tomatoes require less water, so that would be a better option than like your big beefsteak tomatoes, but they still like quite a bit of water, squash. And then as far as herbs, basil is your biggest moisture lover, which is also really sad. Everybody loves their basil, but she is a water lover.

[Ryan Warner]

Trade your basil, perhaps, for thyme.

[Sam Nilsen]

Love it. Great option.

[Ryan Warner]

There's been talk globally of fertilizer shortages and rising costs associated with that. Are you seeing that locally?

[Sam Nilsen]

To an extent, yes. We carry a lot of different brands of fertilizers, so we're seeing certain ones having a harder time or they'll take longer to get to us. But definitely the rising costs in all areas. Obviously, we all know gas prices are insane right now, and we are seeing the freight on everything, and that's what's getting us.

[Ryan Warner]

Yeah. And you've made reference to the fact that you've got trucks coming daily. They're burning fossil fuels.

[Sam Nilsen]

They are. And so some of them, you know, we try to buy as much locally as we can, but unfortunately, some of them are coming out of state and they're trying to charge us just astronomical numbers for that freight.

[Ryan Warner]

Listener Marion Cox asks. I have two apple trees about 5 to 6 years old. Both have many little sprouts growing at their base. On one tree, a honeycrisp. Those sprouts appear healthier than the tree itself. Itself. What's the best way to deal with these sprouts?

[Sam Nilsen]

So those little sprouts are going to be called suckers, and that's very normal for most trees to send them.

[Ryan Warner]

You watch your mouth, Sam.

[Sam Nilsen]

We don't like the suckers. They do take a lot of energy, way more energy away from the host plant, the main plant, than they need to. So keeping up on getting those cut off and sending that energy back to that main tree in time will help it look better again. And they do make products. One is called, like, Sucker Punch, and you can put them on there after you cut them off, and it helps keep them at bay. And then all that energy will go back to that main tree.

[Ryan Warner]

Sucker Punch. Best gardening brand name I think I've ever heard. What are suckers?

[Sam Nilsen]

They essentially are just little offshoots they're trying to spread, essentially. The trees want to take up as much room as they can, but it does take a lot of that energy away, so. So we always encourage cutting them off and keeping it focused on just that one plant.

[Ryan Warner]

They are of the tree, though.

[Sam Nilsen]

They are, yeah. They're just basically little baby apple trees. Trying to apple tree.

[Ryan Warner]

Trying to apple tree. Is that pruning that you're describing?

[Sam Nilsen]

Essentially, yeah, it is a form of pruning. It's not as tedious as your other pruning that you do throughout the year. These you can really just go cut back and get rid of them. You don't have to put a product on them, but it definitely will help help keep them away longer.

[Ryan Warner]

Do drought conditions make plants, even ones adapted for this climate, more susceptible to disease, to pests?

[Sam Nilsen]

It can. There is a pretty fine line between tolerable drought and not tolerable drought. So kind of letting your plants go a little bit more dry and keeping an eye on them, they might wilt a little bit, but if you catch them as they're wilting, they should be okay. It's when you let them go way too dry that you might see more pests or diseases coming in. And if you're doing that very frequently, you definitely can increase the pest and disease risk.

[Ryan Warner]

Is there a way to determine what's crossed the line?

[Sam Nilsen]

It's kind of tricky. I've been telling people this might be the year that we have to pay a little bit more attention to these plants because again, that fine line of like the brink of death versus just a little bit drought tolerant. So if you're used to watering your garden maybe every other day or every two days, try doing it every three to four days, watering them really deeply and then less frequently, and just kind of keeping an eye on how long it does take them to droop and that kind of stuff droop.

[Ryan Warner]

Now there is opportunity in stress as well. Earlier you mentioned peppers, for instance. I think of peppers as thriving in tough conditions that that may improve the taste.

[Sam Nilsen]

In fact, it does. Yes. Hot peppers, especially like those chili peppers or any of the just really hot ones, they actually like a little bit of stress. You're exactly right. And that's where that kind of fine line comes in. If you are letting them go way too dry, you might see aphids coming in, but they can take a little bit of drought and stress for sure.

[Ryan Warner]

Other gardeners might turn to fake plants to dress up their yard. Is that a good idea or is it just like a big bait and switch for pollinators and those little hummingbirds?

[Sam Nilsen]

I don't think it's a great idea. The pollinators do see them and they want to come get to them and they just can't and they don't know that till they get there. So that's kind of where that opportunity. Opportunity to maybe get some natives or those plant select plants in your yard. Give those a try. Those will help attract more native pollinators as well.

[Ryan Warner]

Why don't you leave us with something we can't even see yet that's coming on a truck that you're excited about?

[Sam Nilsen]

My favorite thing, we're actually growing it on this year. So hopefully within the next couple weeks it'll be ready.

[Ryan Warner]

But wait, what does that mean, growing it on?

[Sam Nilsen]

We grow a lot of stuff in house, so starting in February, we'll get little baby plugs and we pot them up into bigger plants. And that's kind of this first round of crop you see here. And then we'll order stuff in as it sells. So we're growing on a type of echinacea. It's the Sunseekers series. And they're just these like big pom pom poofy bright, vibrant flowers. They're beautiful and I'm so excited to get them.

[Ryan Warner]

When I think of echinacea, I think medicinal. Do they have those qualities?

[Sam Nilsen]

These ones I don't believe do. They are a hybrid. So they're still a good pollinator. Obviously not as great as all these natives. I'm like preaching, but. But for fun. Hybrid new. She's a really exciting one.

[Ryan Warner]

She sounds it. And thanks to you for being with us and meeting us in the greenhouse.

[Sam Nilsen]

Thanks for having me.

[Ryan Warner]

Sam Nielsen, head grower at Phalen Gardens in Colorado Springs. A note. The nursery is an underwriter, which has no bearing editorially. And Colorado Matters continues in this next half hour with tattoos that have landed in a museum. I'm Ryan Warner. You're with CPR News and krcc. If I say Western art, maybe you imagine a painting of a canyon or sculpture of a bison. Scott Boyer hopes you'll think of tattoos. Tattooing in Colorado has a longer and more complex story than most realize, he says, across pool halls, military barracks and mining camps. We met at the Pioneers Museum in Colorado Springs, where the show Colorado Nick has opened about one artist in particular. Boyer's written a companion book. Scott, thanks for meeting me.

[Scott Boyer]

Yeah, no problem. Thanks for having me.

[Ryan Warner]

You have one or two tattoos?

[Scott Boyer]

A couple.

[Ryan Warner]

Why do you gravitate to body art?

[Scott Boyer]

First off, for me, it's been like a kind of a lifelong primal urge. I was obsessed with tattoos from a young age. I remember getting in trouble at the grocery store for staring at a man in line in Front of us with a bunch of old tattoos. I remember in elementary school going through all the National Geographic magazines and finding every issue that I knew had tattooed people in it. I just had like a. A draw to tattooing my entire life.

[Ryan Warner]

I love your use of the word primal. Okay, who's Nick?

[Scott Boyer]

Colorado Nick Wisner. His real name is Leonard Newell Wisner. He was a war era tattooer, primarily based out of Colorado Springs.

[Ryan Warner]

But World War II.

[Scott Boyer]

Yes, World War II. Primarily in Korean War and Vietnam. So he was largely based out of Colorado Springs. Born in Victor, went to college in Denver, traveled a lot, as most tattooers did during war times. Tattooed across the street from Sailor Jerry in Hawaii, tattooed on State street in Chicago as well as a bunch of other places, but always seemed to kind of find his way back to Colorado Springs and had that as his home base for years.

[Ryan Warner]

This exhibition at the Pioneers Museum, Colorado, Nick Allegro of tattoo art in Colorado Springs. And there's a giant tattoo of, I believe, a sparrow.

[Scott Boyer]

Sparrow, yeah.

[Ryan Warner]

And the word mother with some floral motif. I gather this is Nick's. Why did you decide of all of the tattoos you could have made larger than life to place this one on the wall?

[Scott Boyer]

Well, I think his mother played a really pivotal role in his life. You know, she was a single mother, raised him on her own. And what drew him back to Colorado over and over was his family. His mother was here. She was like an important figure in his life and is featured pretty heavily in the book. There's a lot of family photos of them together.

[Ryan Warner]

Is this a tattoo he had?

[Scott Boyer]

No, this is off a flash sheet he painted and we selected it off the wall right there.

[Ryan Warner]

So a flash sheet. Help us understand what that means. These are sheets of individual tattoos. You've got 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 times 3, 36 in this case alone.

[Scott Boyer]

A flash sheet, when it pertains to a tattooer of Nick's era, they are hand painted watercolor paintings, done typically on illustration board, sometimes on watercolor paper. A unique painting style where the tattooer would actually use their spit to draw out gradients in color and in black shading. And it was just basically a menu for the customer to come in, pick a design off the wall. The tattooer would use a number off the flash sheet, find a corresponding stencil, and apply the tattoo.

[Ryan Warner]

The notion today of getting a tattoo that is customized, that is something you want unique to yourself. That's a more contemporary idea.

[Scott Boyer]

Yeah, I think that was made a little bit more popular and in the 70s and 80s, primarily. Most people credit Ed Hardy with sort of changing the industry into like, a full custom sort of approach to tattooing. But the guys from Nick's era, they typically worked off what, you know, the menu that was on the wall. That's what they did. There was exceptions to that. They did larger scale, full body tattooing on people. If someone really wanted something custom, they could do that, but that's not really the way the craft was approached at that time.

[Ryan Warner]

He is born NICK WISNER In 1914, as you say, in Victor, Colorado. How quickly does the electric tattoo gun enter his realm?

[Scott Boyer]

The electric tattoo machine technically was invented around, you know, roughly around the time he was born. And tattooing, I think, as far as I could tell through my research, came into his life when he was of college age and living in Denver. He somehow picked up the craft then. And I'm unsure. I was unable to determine who he picked up the craft through, like, who he apprenticed under, but I have some suspicions as to who it was because there were tattooers that lived close to where he lived at the time, and there were connections within some of their designs appeared in his flash later on. So I think there's a connection there, but I'm hesitant to make any definite statement as to that. But he picked up the craft as a young man. He worked in the gold mine in Victor, worked in several mines throughout his life, worked at the Gates Rubber factory in Denver, that is to say, doing

[Ryan Warner]

mining and doing rubber production.

[Scott Boyer]

Yeah. So his father was a gold miner in Victor. His father left, and then Nick picked up that trade as well and ran a pressure drill in the Victor Gold Mine. You know, When World War II happened, Nick actually worked in Arizona in the Copper Queen mine. And that's part of the reason he wasn't drafted into the war was he had silicosis of the lungs from working a pressure drill for so many years. And they needed to keep infrastructure jobs going. They needed copper for the war effort.

[Ryan Warner]

You described Nick as somewhat itinerant. He went all over doing tattoos, but that's partly because he had other lines of work in various places, right?

[Scott Boyer]

Yeah, partially. Early on in his life, you know, he worked in a mining camp several places in Arizona, all over the United States, honestly. And then tattooing was a side hustle firm, which was pretty common for tattooers of that time. But, you know, as. As the war continued on, there was money to be made, and Nick, much like a lot of tattooers of his era, gravitated towards large military bases. So Norfolk, Virginia, Hawaii, San Diego. And, you know, Colorado Springs was always a big military town, so there was plenty of work work here for him as well.

[Ryan Warner]

Do you see the connection between a tattoo gun and the pressure drill?

[Scott Boyer]

That's interesting. I never thought of that until you brought it up, but yeah, yeah, very similar.

[Ryan Warner]

And in these spots, did he have a tattoo studio or, you know, what we might have referred to as a parlor.

[Scott Boyer]

His most famous location in Colorado Springs was a place called Recreation Billiards. It was a. A billiards hall on Colorado Avenue between Nevada and Tejon. And that area of town was geared towards gis, so it was bars, tattoo shops, billiards halls, things like that. And so he operated out of the back of the billiards hall, which was pretty common for that era.

[Ryan Warner]

Now behind you is almost looks like a mobile tattoo box. It says Alexander the Great, Colorado's only freehand tattoo artist. Is this something someone would have traveled with?

[Scott Boyer]

Yeah. So it was pretty common for tattooers of that era to have what they called trunks or travel trunks. Nyx is actually over here on the wall as well.

[Ryan Warner]

Oh, that's Nyx. Okay, I'm gonna take a closer look at this. I'm seeing Vaseline, I'm seeing aftershave, Isopropyl alcohol cement for plastic models.

[Scott Boyer]

This is what's left of his tattoo kit that, as far as I can tell, was built in the 40s and he tattooed out of until he passed in 1980. Like he, he tattooed all the way up until the end of his life. But this is a hand built tattoo trunk built for travel so that he had everything he needed. The rheostat is built from a lionel train set, rheostat, and a foot switch that controls the tattoo machine.

[Ryan Warner]

So this box not only held tools, but it had. It had the power.

[Scott Boyer]

Exactly, yeah. So a lot of tattooers of that era tattooed off batteries, but he also had a power supply that you could plug into the wall. It was really built for travel. Even has his old needle making kit in there, some of his dry powdered pigments as well.

[Ryan Warner]

My goodness, it's a fascinating thing to look at this box and, and think how much skin this placed art on.

[Scott Boyer]

Yeah, it's pretty interesting. You can even see his fingerprints in the vaseline. There's still aftershave in the bottle over there, and there's an eye loop and a jig that he used to solder needles.

[Ryan Warner]

Oh, my gosh. The notion of the fingerprints and the vaseline. Did you ever meet Nick Wisner?

[Scott Boyer]

No. He passed away the year I was born, so, no, I never had a chance to. I met his son and a bunch of his family. A bunch of people have been tattooed by him. But no, I never got the chance to, unfortunately.

[Ryan Warner]

Would you say that he had a particular style?

[Scott Boyer]

Absolutely. Yeah. He had a really interesting style. It was very bold and straightforward and unique to him.

[Ryan Warner]

If there are motifs going on, it's hearts, birds, flowers, animals that would tear you apart, animals that are off limits, cutesy, patriotism, women, weapons, swords, anchors. What themes emerge for you as you look at these flash sheets?

[Scott Boyer]

To me, when I look at these, it just looks like a distillation of the time period. You have to figure this is wartime. People were more religious during that time. People were more patriotic during that time. So you see those motifs come kind of shine through. You see a lot of what people call power animals. Eagle, panther, tiger, things like that. Those shine through for sure. I think, you know, some of Nick's best work, in my opinion, are his eagles.

[Ryan Warner]

Oh, gosh. And then the notion of getting your sweetheart's name or your mother's name tattooed on yourself.

[Scott Boyer]

There's people that are going to want to come in and want a memorial tattoo for a loved one. A lot of these people were soldiers, so, you know, they're separated from their family and they want to think of them while they're at war.

[Ryan Warner]

Tattoo historian Scott Boyer is with us at the Pioneers Museum in Colorado Springs. We're touring the new show Colorado Nick. Still to Come Stigma. This is Colorado Matters from CPR News. Let's return to a celebration of tattoo artistry at the Pioneers Museum in Colorado Springs. We're visiting the new show Colorado Nick. It is principally about the late Nick Wisner, born in Victor in 1914. Our guide is Scott Boyer, co curator and author of a companion book. When I see people with tattoos today, and I've got one, a lonely tattoo on my left arm, I just think of them as conversation starters to get people to take tell their stories. Does that resonate with you?

[Scott Boyer]

Not for me. I generally don't like talking about my tattoos too much. It's more like I get them for me, not to discuss with anyone else necessarily, but I love knowing that.

[Ryan Warner]

What does it say that the Pioneers Museum dedicated a space to tattoos? Do you think it tells us something about stigma, about it melting away, about mainstreaming of an art that was perhaps relegated to a certain corridor at a certain time in history?

[Scott Boyer]

Yeah, I think it's important. For me, it was important to showcase these tattooers that existed during that time, because what they were doing is important as any other kind of folk art that was happening at the time, but it was just kind of stigmatized. So my hopes is with. With doing this exhibit that people are going to understand that, wow, these guys were skilled artists. They were craftsmen at what they do, and they operated kind of in the shadows and under the radar of most people.

[Ryan Warner]

Are people still getting Nick Wisner's tattoos?

[Scott Boyer]

Absolutely. I just got one on my neck actually, at the exhibit.

[Ryan Warner]

Will you describe it?

[Scott Boyer]

It's a little what they call a stinker skunk, and it's off one of his flash sheets over here on the wall.

[Ryan Warner]

Kind of a Pepe le Pe.

[Scott Boyer]

Yeah, kind of. One of his nieces told me her uncle had it on his arm. And I've always been drawn to cartoon tattoo design, so it just seemed fitting as a way to close off the exhibit.

[Ryan Warner]

How do you like it?

[Scott Boyer]

I love it. Yeah, it means a lot to me.

[Ryan Warner]

How would you describe Nick's place in tattooing in the United States? Is this a name that if you dropped in a Boston or a Hawaii where he worked, or a Chicago, is that a name that would be recognized?

[Scott Boyer]

I think now, yeah. Now that the book is out, you know, a lot of tattooers now that tattoo in the traditional style, like to revisit these older designs and kind of rework them. And I think that's a really important part of these old timers legacy, is their designs carrying on and becoming part of like the tattoo lexicon, you know, like the tattoo language of the modern time.

[Ryan Warner]

I'm so glad you mentioned this, because if I go to the Louvre and I see the Mona Lisa, that's an experience of me taking something in and maybe walking away with something emblazoned. In my mind, this is a chance to have history emblazoned on your body. Which feels more poetic or profound somehow.

[Scott Boyer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do think it's poetic for sure. These designs being replicated in modern times is really how these guys legacy gets to carry forward.

[Ryan Warner]

And though you didn't know Nick Wisner, you do know plenty of people. And you would see, I think, in your younger years, people with his tattoos carrying on that legacy.

[Scott Boyer]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I would see people in the grocery store, hardware store. My friend Snake Yates, who tattooed in Colorado Springs for 50 years. Some of his first tattoos were done by Colorado, Colorado, Nick. A bunch of Nick's family members have sent me tattoos that he did on their family.

[Ryan Warner]

Gosh, it's never really occurred to me that when a tattoo artist dies, all their clients are living embodiments of their life's work.

[Scott Boyer]

Yeah, and that. And that doesn't last forever. We're kind of at the tail end of where his work is still going to be around. And so what's left behind are these paintings. A lot of the ephemera. That's the stuff that really lives on. That's why I think it's important to photograph those tattoos and document this history because it's finite.

[Ryan Warner]

I think it's so lovely that you use the word painting, because I think of perhaps the simplistic tattoo that I have is really more of a series of lines or an illustration. But will you speak more to the notion of these artists as painters?

[Scott Boyer]

I consider them folk artists. You know, these guys existed in a time where the supplies largely had to be handmade by them. They had to solder their own needles, mix their own pigments, all that stuff. So you had to also design your own flash and, and sell it to customers. So these guys not only had to be tattooers, they had to be painters, mechanics of their own machines, being able to build their own equipment. And I think that's a really interesting part of this whole story that kind of most people don't realize. And I think by showcasing a lot of these flash sheets, people come in and see like, wow, these guys could paint.

[Ryan Warner]

You know, why don't we talk a little bit about stigma? Because I use that word. You did echo it. What was it? Where is it headed?

[Scott Boyer]

When Japan opened up to the west, tattooing was considered a high society thing. A lot of European royalty had souvenir tattoos from Japanese tattoo masters. The Japanese had been doing large scale high end tattooing since the IDO period. So it was a high society thing for a period of time. And then the electric tattoo machine was invented and it became even more of a working class thing. And you start seeing it on sailors, military people. And that's really the era that Nick came out of, is that shift of when it went from, you know, a boutique high end thing or something specific to Japan and then transitioned into like a working class thing. And I feel like that sort of carried an unfortunate negative stigma for a while. And I think, you know, with tattooing being so popular and being on TV and being such a commonplace thing, now that stigma is wearing off.

[Ryan Warner]

Do you ever mourn the fact that you'll eventually run out of skin to tattoo?

[Scott Boyer]

I mean, yeah, I'm kind of at that stage now and I'm just like lasering the things I got when I was younger. So that I can get things that fit better with the style that I like now. But yeah, for sure. I'm already like at the cusp of that and I don't, I don't like it.

[Ryan Warner]

What is something you have learned along the way? Because I gather you went into this already with a lot of knowledge. But what was an aha moment as you put this together, both the book and, and the exhibition?

[Scott Boyer]

Well, I own Yellow Beak Press and we do tattoo history books. So we typically do like art books, slash biographies of war era American tattooers. And this is our 12th Colorado Nick is our 12th book. And I've wanted to do something that was focused on Colorado for a really long time. So that sort of drove my curiosity about Nick in general. And he was a really obscure figure within American tattooing and it took a lot of work. A lot of the books I've done were on bigger name tattooers of that time. So the research came a little bit easier. Finding their artwork was easier. Finding people that knew them was easier. Nick was an obscure figure. And so it took 10 years of work and research for me to do this book. And I really, of all the books we've done, it's the most effort I've put into any project ever. And so it really means a lot to me. And, you know, as we're doing this book, the aha moment for me was realizing that, you know, this story's bigger than Nick as far as Colorado Springs go. There are people that he worked with that he worked alongside that I feel like their story needed to be showcased as well. That's why the exhibit showcases people like Quincy Lee Cooper, his apprentice Curly Pope, his co worker Leon Miller, who was a work next door to Colorado Nick and ran a supply business out of Colorado Springs. Alexander the Great, his competition. He worked down the street. Snake Yates, who got his first tattoos from Colorado Nick and tattooed on up until like 10 years ago.

[Ryan Warner]

It occurs to me though, if you run out of skin, you won't necessarily run out of wall space because this, to you, is art that ought to be displayed.

[Scott Boyer]

That's one thing about this stuff. I try and treat it in an archival manner. So I like to keep, keep it out of the sun if I can, unless I'm, you know, showing it to somebody. But this is a really neat way to share it with the Colorado Springs public, let them know that this stuff exists. This is a part of our history that people may not know about. Yeah. So it feels really good to have it all in one space and this stuff in in my opinion, carries an energy to it. Like, when you look at it, I think about the shop it hung in, what it saw. Well, all the crazy things that happened in there. Say you pull an old flash sheet out of a box box, it's typically stained with tobacco smoke and things like that. So it has, like, a scent and a feel to it, and you can just tell that it's lived a life of its own.

[Ryan Warner]

This is a sensory experience as you are digging through these archives.

[Scott Boyer]

Yeah, yeah, I think so.

[Ryan Warner]

And it's not just visual, is the point.

[Scott Boyer]

Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, getting back to it, having its own energy. I think any good artwork has energy like this. But to me, you know, you look at these designs and think, like, where was Nick at when he painted this? What was he trying to convey? You know, what. What were the sellers on these sheets who were picking these designs? That kind of stuff. That's the stuff that I like to think about.

[Ryan Warner]

I invoke the Louvre. Do you think that tattoo art ought to be in the finest museums? Has it been lately?

[Scott Boyer]

There's been a lot more museums buying, you know, vintage tattoo memorabilia, which I think is important. I think this stuff being recognized as true folk art is like a step in the right direction for sure.

[Ryan Warner]

Scott Boyer there. He runs Yellow Beak Press. He helped put together the new show Colorado Nick A Legacy of Tattoo Art in Colorado Springs. He's also written a companion book. The exhibit runs for a good long while at the Pioneers Museum. A note that the museum's a sponsor, which has no bearing on our editorial choices. Thanks for joining us today, and thanks to the Colorado Matters team.

[Scott Boyer]

Sandy Batulga, Tyler Bender, Carl Bielek, Anthony Cotton, Pete Kramer, Andrea Dukakis, Zan Huckpechone,

[Ryan Warner]

Matt Herz, Tom Hess, Michael Hughes, Pedro

[Shadeh Dashti]

Lumbragno, Shane Rumsey, Haley Sanchez, Chandra.

[Sam Nilsen]

Thomas Whitfield.

[Ryan Warner]

And I'm Ryan Warner at CPR News and krcc.