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Colorado Matters
May 14, 2026: In-depth with gubernatorial candidate Michael Bennet ahead of Democratic primary
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- [00:04]
A
US Senator Michael Bennett wants a new job to be governor of Colorado. He says this is where the most exciting, most important work is to be done.
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B
I meet people every single day who are in tears in my town halls who are saying to me, Michael, we thought we were going to have a family. We're never going to have a family. Or meeting people who say we had one kid, but we're never going to have another kid because of the cost of child care, because of the cost of housing, because of the cost of health care. It is breaking my heart.
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A
We heard from his Democratic primary opponent Phil Weiser yesterday. We asked both about their boldest idea for Colorado and how they'll achieve it. Plus water, artificial intelligence and state spending. This is Colorado Matters from CPR News and krcc. I'm Ryan Warner. He's one of a hundred now, but wants to be one of 50. Democrat Michael Bennett hopes to leave the U.S. senate and become Colorado's governor. The 61 year old is a former superintendent of Denver Public Schools. He helped run the city under Mayor Hickenlooper and he worked in the private sector with telecom and media mogul Phil Anschutz. Yesterday we heard from Senate's primary opponent, Phil weiser. Head to coloradomatters.org if you missed it. Senator, welcome back to the program.
- [01:34]
B
Thank you so much for having me.
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A
What's your boldest idea for Colorado and pesky follow up? How will you achieve it?
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B
Well, I think the boldest idea is that nobody, no working person should have to spend more than 30% of their income on housing. Because I think that anybody who is spending more than 30%, which is many working people in Colorado, they can't afford a middle class life. So I think as a state, we should have that as our objective.
- [02:02]
A
Okay, let's get specific. Let's imagine someone in the Roaring Fork Valley. Perhaps they're in an industry that caters to the billionaires of Aspen. Maybe they're driving from Glenwood Springs or farther. How do you help them keep their housing at 30% or below?
- [02:20]
B
Well, that's a great point because in the Roaring Fork Valley, that's one of the places in Colorado where over the last decade it's become impossible. I was recently out there meeting with families who were able, through philanthropy and through a lot of collaborative efforts, buy the mobile home park that they're living in there. And now there are three generations of people who have been working in Aspen for generations who now know that their families are going to be able to be raised right outside the elementary school At Basalt, they're not spending more than 30% of their income on housing because a community came together to, to make sure they could stay there. Alternative, a community group together. What would a governor, an entire Roaring Fork Valley. This isn't just a governor's job. This is 6 million people that are Colorado. We have to commit to this. Let me give you another example. When I first started going out to the Roaring Fork Valley, I would meet teachers all the time who would say to me, we live in the most beautiful place in America. And what's awesome about this place is I can teach in Carbondale, I can teach in Basalt, I can teach in Aspen and, and I can work at the resort in the winter and I can get by. Today when I'm out there, people are literally in tears because the only way that if they're a teacher that they can afford housing is if they win a housing lottery run by their school district. That's the gilded age we're living in today. And so whether it's the Roaring Fork Valley or whether it's Grand Junction or whether it's Denver or the Eastern Plains, I think we need a statewide commitment to say it is a purpose of the state of Colorado, not, not to have people have to spend more than 30% of their income on housing. And we're going to do what's necessary to get there. What's necessary to get there. Cut red tape, what's necessary to get there. Align the approval processes at the state and local level and at the county level to make sure that we're speeding the building of housing rather than making it slower. Use the balance sheet of the state government to underwrite workforce housing so that we, we can make it cheaper for people that are financing it by basically putting a level of mezzanine debt in instead of out of state equity that costs a lot more money. I mean, make sure that the requirements for building housing and lot sizes and things like that favor starter homes and condominiums as opposed to large lot sizes in houses. There are a lot of things we can do, but I think it's really important for us to have a view you that that's actually a mission for us as a state.
- [04:58]
A
I'm going to harken back to the debate that I co moderated in which you said you thought the current administration, the polis administration, had gone a bit too far with the notion of state power in local zoning. So I'm hearing you say housing is a priority, but you would do it differently from the current sitting administration.
- [05:22]
B
Well, I Think we definitely need to do it differently because as again, as a state, I don't lay this all on Jared Polis shoulders. As a state, we have become one of the most expensive states in America for housing. The governor doesn't control interest rates. There are lots of things governors don't control. As a state, we have to build a culture that says we're going to build more starter homes for the next generation, we're going to build more condos for the next generation.
- [05:50]
A
But you would use that state power differently.
- [05:52]
B
Well, here's what I believe. I think that it is really important for us to have deep collaborative relationships with communities across this state. I know the county commissioners, I know the mayors, I know the development community in Colorado. And I think I can bring them together with a series of objectives like the one that I just described to allow us to collaborate in a way that will get us to the right result. I do not think a command and control and answer from the governor's office in Denver is ever going to solve this problem or any other problem that we have to work on.
- [06:29]
A
Okay, the term red tape, that red tape is getting in the way of housing. Would you be more specific? And I don't know. Red tape strikes me as such an easy monster under the bed, you know.
- [06:43]
B
Well, it's a real monster under the bed. I mean, there's a reason why we are having a hard time building housing for working people in Colorado. And it's because the private sector can't build it and make a profit on it. And if they can't make a profit on it, they're not going to build it. Which is why as a state together we've perfected building rich people housing, but we haven't built working people housing. And when things are delayed six months, a year, two years, none of that is an exaggeration. That's those are common delays in the state of Colorado. You run into real trouble. Our labor costs are high in this state. Our materials costs are high in this state. It's why we need to put a premium on the idea of trying to reduce regulation where we can and creating certainty where we can.
- [07:31]
A
And then you talked about using the sort of full faith and credit of the state and this is me paraphrasing, so correct me if I'm wrong, as some sort of guarantee or surety as people in embark on projects as opposed to out of state capital.
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B
Right.
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A
Just be more specific about that.
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B
It is the idea that we could use the state's balance sheet to be able to underwrite debt that would allow the cost of affordable housing or the cost of workforce housing to be cheaper than if it has to rely on the more expensive equity returns that out of state folks commonly require.
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A
A few years ago, Vail used bighorn sheep habitat as a reason to block a proposed workforce housing development. Is that red tape?
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B
Well, look, Ryan, here's how I look at this. I think that we have to decide whether we're serious about the next generation of Coloradans living here or not. I mean, I think it's a moral imperative. If you sit down with people that are 20 to 35 years old in Colorado, they are incredibly angry because my generation of Coloradans has benefited mightily from a real estate market that has benefited us hugely. And they believe that there's never going to be room for them in the state of Colorado, whether it's Denver or Steamboat or Durango, it doesn't matter.
- [09:02]
A
You know, it's interesting. This sounds a lot like what I've heard from the congressman on the Western Slope Jeff heard, who talks a lot about the break drain he sees in the Grand Valley with a lack of jobs and an inability to stay in that place.
- [09:19]
B
He's right. He's right. And we're now seeing, Ryan, for the first time since I really moved to Colorado, businesses leave our state. And they're saying to me part of that is the red tape that we were talking about earlier are different forms of it. But it's also true that you can meet engineering firms, for example, I commonly do today, who are telling me that the housing is so expensive in Colorado they can't draw people here anymore and therefore they're going to have to go somewhere else. I think that's an incredible opportunity for us because I think that the business community in Colorado and the families in Colorado share a lot of the same interests when it comes to building affordable housing, when it comes to having more affordable healthcare and childcare in this state.
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A
Okay. The flip side of this is the more affordable you make housing and the more bountiful you make housing, the less perhaps those who already have property, the less value they have on the balance sheet. Right. Isn't that the fundamental tension? So what do you tell those boomers who've done so well as you've described it, hey, this is going to be.
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B
I'll tell you what these young people are saying to me. They're saying, you boomer. That's what they're saying to me because they want to know they can live in this state and they deserve to be able to live in this state. We have to resolve this tension in favor of the next generation of Coloradans. And I've said that over and over. I'm the only person running for governor in this state who has said that, who has said that. I am willing to understand that those of us that have been so fortunate to be on the beneficial side of that real estate transaction may have to be willing to give up a little bit of the value we've accrued for, for our kids to be able to live in Colorado, for working people to afford to be able to live in Colorado. And I think most Coloradans agree with that. I think most Coloradans believe that we cannot have a sustainable state if working people can't afford to have housing in this state.
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A
Is there a fiscal note to this idea that is, is there actual state money that would have to go towards this? And how do you do that? When the state is.
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B
Well, there is, there are housing programs that the state administers. Some of that is pass through money. And I've said that we should consolidate those programs to make them as efficient as possible to have a one stop shopping in effect at the state level. I'd like to align the work that we're doing at the state with counties and with municipalities all over Colorado. And I want the private sector development community and the nonprofit development community that's so critically important to building affordable housing in Colorado to all sign up to this mission that we are going to make sure that we build enough housing in Colorado that working people don't have to spend more than 30% of their income in housing. We would be the first state in America to do that. And I think that if you are concerned, I mean, if this isn't just a matter of rhetoric, if it's not just a matter of wishing it were true, but were actually our commitment to the next generation of Coloradans, we would say as a state, we're going to sign up to that idea.
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A
One tool potentially that any number of listeners have asked about, especially those interested in renting, over buying and keeping rents, perhaps below that 30% threshold, is whether the state should repeal its ban on rent control. Is that a mechanism you'd rely on?
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B
I haven't said, I've said we shouldn't rule out any mechanism. I have my doubts whether rent control will work and I have my doubts whether it will actually result in there being more housing built, which I think is the fundamental problem that we have. But I think that we shouldn't rule out any mechanism.
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A
Democratic gubernatorial candidate Michael Bennett's with us this hour. The primary's June 30th. Still to come, Bennett laments Colorado's management of Medicaid and the state's now perennial budget gaps. This is Colorado Matters from CPR News. It's Colorado Matters from CPR News. I'm Ryan Warner. There's a governor's race this year. The primary is June 30th. This week we're hearing from the Democrats. Yesterday it was Phil Weiser, currently state attorney general. Today it's his opponent, US Senator Michael Bennett. Let's talk about the state's financial predicament.
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B
What are you talking about?
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A
What am I talking about? Well, it seems to me that the story of session after session are these giant budget gaps. Whom or what do you blame fundamentally?
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B
Well, I blame all of us for not grappling with the fiscal crisis that we're facing as a state. Donald Trump has obviously made matters much, much worse with the big beautiful bill. And Colorado has been hit in a way even harder than most other states for two reasons. One is because of Trump's attack on Medicaid, but the other is because the state's revenue outlays are tied to the decisions that are made by the federal government. And you tie those two things together and you get a massive budget deficit, which is what we're facing right now. And hanging over that is the continuing annual increases in health care and the effect of TABOR and other constitutional constraints on the ability of the state to be able to not just balance its budget but invest in the future.
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A
What does a Bennett administration do about this that a polis administration heretofore hasn't done?
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B
I think heretofore what we've done is manage this as a year, one year crisis at a time. What I'm hearing from Colorado is they're sick and tired of it being done as a crisis one year at a time. They want us to have a strategic view over the next 10 years about how we're going to get control of our health care costs, which we have to do, and how we're going to invest in education, which we have to do. And I think that is going to require us to have a deep conversation with the people of the state of Colorado about how we deal with the 40 year old shackles that are the result of a political settlement that was made when TABOR was passed.
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A
Okay, do you want to start with tabor? So you have said that you're open to rework TABOR in some way, but in some way is sort of the billion dollar question. So give us one solid TABOR change you think could be brought to voters with the idea that any change should
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B
TABLE well, all the TABOR suggestions that have been brought to voters have been rejected by voters because we have not built a coalition of people to make the change that is required. So I think that what we need is a governor that has the experience working through really, really sophisticated and difficult fiscal chall. Spent my entire career doing that like no previous governor in Colorado has. So I bring that to this discussion. I've said that I would start the discussion of TABOR in red rural Colorado, not urban blue Colorado because people have deep concerns in those parts of the state about, on the one hand, loving the relative low taxes we have, but are deeply worried about the fact that in rural Colorado we can't afford to hold on to teachers. Be a useful place to begin the conversation. And what I've said about TABOR is that I'm open to everything except taking away the right of taxpayers to approve tax increases.
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A
So I think you're hearkening back what probably to the Owens administration, the last Republican governor who was able to broker a bipartisan statewide compromise that eased some of the TABOR restrictions. Are you Owens 2.0 in this regard?
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B
I wouldn't put it that way, but I would say that there's I think that look, when we are facing as a state and this is going to sound unrelated, but when we're facing as a state the incredible challenges that we're facing with things like water and things like wildfire and when we were facing the political divisions that we are seeing nationally in America, there is a huge desire in our state for the 6 million people to find a way to work together to make this state sustainable for the next generation of Coloradans. And that means having a fiscal strategy that actually lasts longer than one legislative session. It means having a goal for housing that can lead us to a place where people aren't bankrupting themselves just for the privilege of living in Colorado. It means having a health care system where we're not just accepting automatic 9% a year increases in Medicaid because it's completely unvary managed by the state of Colorado. It means that we have an agreement between the Western Slope of Colorado and the Front Range of Colorado finally to put in place voluntary conservation measures and infrastructure that we need so badly to be able to deal with the water crisis that we have. That's what's so exciting to me about this moment in our country's history and in Colorado's history, I think people are so sick and tired of the failure of us to deliver for the next generation of Coloradans, and we have the opportunity to do it here.
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A
Did you use the phrase completely unmanaged when it came to Medicaid in Colorado?
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B
I did, yeah.
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A
Would you expound on that for me?
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B
Yeah. I think it's been completely unmanaged in our state. We have to develop. In fact, it's literally been unmanaged because unlike a lot of states, we've never had a system of managed care in Colorado that's focused on keeping patients, well, focused on primary care, focused on getting people access to primary care physicians and to the lab tests that they need to be able to take care of themselves.
- [19:38]
A
The federal government is investigating Colorado and its relationship with Medicaid. Do we deserve that investigation?
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B
I certainly wouldn't. I would. I have no comment on that.
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A
Okay. What does it look like if Senator Bennett becomes a governor?
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B
Bennett? I'm not seeing any.
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A
What does management look like?
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B
It looks like making sure that we are focused on the interests of patients and their medical providers, doctors and nurses, instead of on insurance companies and rewarding private equity firms that are sucking the Medicaid budget dry. And it means, perhaps more than anything else, making sure we're focused on giving people the tools to be able to take as good care of themselves and their families as they can.
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A
And then beyond Medicaid, the annual increases are sometimes jaw dropping.
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B
It's insane for folks. I mean, it's insane.
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A
What power does a governor fundamentally have in a system that is so built
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B
on national and even international immigration? That is a great question. And I'm wrestling with trying to figure out what the limits of it are. Because you don't control drug prices from Colorado. You don't control the big parts of the insurance market that are not governed by Colorado. But we do have the opportunity as a state to allow other folks to buy into the state insurance system. I think that's something that I've called for that might make a big difference to county workers and to municipal workers.
- [21:16]
A
A Colorado option.
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B
Well, that's another piece of this, is that I'm the only candidate in this race that suggested that we should have a true Colorado option that would allow people to be able to not buy private health insurance and instead buy a public option that would be supported by our state.
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A
And so just to put a finer point on this, you're talking about an option for government workers and then an option for the rest of us.
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B
Exactly.
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A
Is that Right.
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B
And the rest of us, by the way, includes people that are coming off their parents health insurance. You know, I fought really hard to pass the Affordable Care Act. In fact, when I voted for that bill in 29 and 10, I forget what it was. The Republicans were absolutely convinced that I would lose my Senate seat because I had supported the Affordable Care act so vociferously. And I'm proud of the work that we did on that. But now we've got 16 years of medical inflation and people that are coming off their parents health Insurance who are 26 or 27 years old are saying to me, Ryan, what am I supposed to do? Take two or three jobs to pay for my health insurance? And they're right. It's preposterous. By the way, it goes back to your observation earlier, which is that, you know, how much is national and how much is state as a country, as a nation, there's no question in my mind that we should have a universal health care system. There is no question in my mind that we could cut our healthcare costs dramatically and improve the care that we were delivering if we had, you know, the chance to be able to do that in D.C. right now, we're not going to be able to do that in D.C. and I hope Colorado can, where we can, we can set an example for being much more focused on patients needs, much more focused on trying to support our doctors and nurses, and less focused on bureaucracy and our healthcare apparatus.
- [23:09]
A
If Democrats are successful in the midterm elections, perhaps retake the House, retake the Senate, you won't be there to achieve what you said could happen on a national level. And so I know this is a question you've answered ad infinitum on the campaign trail, but why is Michael Bennett better positioned at the state Capitol than the federal one?
- [23:35]
B
I think that this is where the battle really is right now. I love Colorado. Susan and I moved here and were able to live the American dream here. We really were. There was never in doubt. And I meet people every single day who are in tears in my town halls, who are saying to me, michael, we thought we were going to have a family. We're never going to have a family. Or meeting people who say, we had one kid, but we're never going to have another kid because of the cost of child care, because of the cost of housing, because of the cost of health care. And just to put a finer point on it, because health care costs $27,000 a year on average for families, because child care costs $20,000 a year for families because groceries cost $1,500 a month for families because there are mountain towns where no working person is less than 40% or 50% of their income on housing. It is breaking my heart. And Ryan, I think this is part of the economic challenges that have elected Donald Trump twice in this nation. And we have to address these fundamental challenges.
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A
And do you feel powerless to help or less powerful than you wish to help in the Senate? Am I hearing that you think you can be of more.
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B
I believe I can be of far greater use to the people of Colorado than I can in the seat that I am in right now by running for governor. And I would also say, Ryan, obviously, you know, you would expect me to say this, I suppose. I think that I have the experience that Colorado needs right now. I mean, I have spent my life working on incredibly hard, challenging problems in the private sector and in the public sector. I have never been somebody who has defended the status quo. It's always been about change and it's always been about making hard decisions. It's been about telling the truth when that hasn't been easy. When I was in the private sector, when I worked for the city and county of Denver, especially when I worked in the Denver Public Schools, and in the time that I've been in the Senate, that is a really unusual set of experiences to bring to bear to the challenges that Colorado is facing. And by the way, I don't think, you know, I or Colorado would be giving up national leadership as a result of that. I think Colorado is in a position hopefully to be able to set an example for the rest of the country when the country needs it.
- [26:04]
A
If you're elected governor, you would choose your successor in this Senate. Colorado has never sent a woman to the U.S. senate. We've never had a woman as governor. Is that something you'd seek to change in choosing?
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B
We certainly are long overdue having a woman as governor and a woman in the Senate.
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A
You could change that.
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B
We have. Well, I have to get there first, and I hope that people will help me get there because I hope that you have a sense of how high I think the stakes really are here. And Ryan, I'm not doing this to fill a seat or to fill this
- [26:40]
A
seat, but let me ask about that seat because it's a core question. If you win, would you like to put a woman in that seat?
- [26:47]
B
What I will say is I have not said anything about that except that I think the likelihood is that it will be somebody of a younger generation than I am. And I think that we have an incredible bench in Colorado, an incredible bench of politicians, an incredible bench of public servants that are not even in politics. There's an amazing array of people to be there. And I think it's going to be incredible for Colorado to have a new governor and then also have new representation in the Senate from another generation. I don't think we need one more person dying on the floor of the US Senate to prove their worth.
- [27:32]
A
Phil Weiser in the debate called I know. Young for a senator.
- [27:36]
B
I know.
- [27:37]
A
Yeah.
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B
What a compliment.
- [27:38]
A
It's all relative.
- [27:39]
B
What a compliment.
- [27:40]
A
When you get to the U.S. capitol, you know you were appointed to the seat.
- [27:45]
B
That's true.
- [27:45]
A
So why is it that the Senate craves youth, but the governor's mansion craves, you know, wizened experience?
- [27:55]
B
I don't. I guess I'm trying to understand the premise of the question.
- [27:59]
A
You're saying that you want to appoint someone younger to the Senate. So you're thinking that the Senate can benefit from some youth and moxie, but then you're saying, but we need, you know, someone older and wiser as well.
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B
I'm not saying older. I'm not that old.
- [28:14]
A
You're probably not saying wiser, given that. That's exactly the devil entendre.
- [28:19]
B
But in any case, what we want are people that are in these jobs for the right reasons. They're people that understand that they are there to serve the people that have elected them, not themselves. And by the way, that's an unusual turns out, that's an unusual approach to the work. I think having people that, that have a wide range of experience is really valuable, and that's something I've always believed. Ryan, when I was first appointed to this job, sometimes people would say to me, you're not qualified for this job. And I'd say, why do you say that? The Senate job, they said, well, because you've never run for office before, which was true. I had never run for office before. And I can't tell you how lucky it has been to have had a life outside of politics, a life in business, a life especially in the schools and classrooms of Denver and throughout Colorado, to be able to bring that different perspective. And now the chance to be able to bring that to the governor's office with three terms worth of politics at the highest level, governance at the highest level, an institution that admittedly isn't working as well as it should, the U.S. senate, I'm not going to deny that. But what I know is that there's no one riding to our rescue. There is nobody who's going to fix the affordability challenge in Colorado except for Colorado. There's nobody who's going to fix our political system in Colorado except for Colorado. And what we've been doing for the last 20 years is not going to work for the next 20 years.
- [29:55]
A
Businessman turned school superintendent turned mayoral chief of staff turned US Senator Michael Bennett is with us. He hopes to become Colorado's next governor. Bennett's campaign reached out to us after we taped with a little more to say about Medicaid. Quote, michael does not believe an investigation from the Trump administration will help fix any problems. They'll only make things worse. Colorado is fully capable of addressing its own challenges. The state is already taking critical steps and, and as governor, it will be Michael's top priority, not just to fix it, but build a better system, end quote. We're back in this next half hour to discuss artificial intelligence and whether Colorado needs an additional prison. I'm Ryan Warner. You're with Colorado Matters from CPR News and krcc. You're back with Colorado Matters from CPR News and krcc. I'm Ryan Warner. Let's return to gubernatorial hopeful Michael Bennett. We heard from his Democratic primary opponent, Phil Weise yesterday. How would you like to see artificial intelligence regulated in Colorado? Now, I know that's a broad net, right, because it can include data centers, it could include AI in the classroom, not something you had to contend with necessarily when you were superintendent. We're talking about commerce as well. What should the state be mandating and what should the state get out of the way for?
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B
We're going to have to learn the answers to those questions. We are in a, this is a brave new world that's starting. And you can see the politics of it sort of following the politics of almost everything these days, which is everybody occupies their corner. So you have one corner now on AI that says we're going to finally achieve their nirvana that the ancient Greeks hoped that we would achieve. We're only going to have to work two days a week and the rest of the time we'll just tend our olive trees and read books.
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A
Not sure how I'm going to pay for my mortgage, but okay, you know
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B
that you'll be able to it'll pay itself. Oh, I see in that world. And then there's another side that says it's all just going to be mayhem and destruction and everybody is going to be totally displaced in this workforce. The truth is obviously going to lie somewhere in between. And Colorado is going to have to be nimble in the way that this is regulated. Colorado is going to have to regulate it in a way that protects consumers, protect civil rights, addresses probably with the federal government if it's ever functional. Again, the workforce dislocations that we're going to face because Colorado is not going to be able to do that only by itself and also provide the opportunity for AI firms to succeed here in Colorado.
- [32:46]
A
You want that, you want AI? Absolutely.
- [32:49]
B
To be on the cutting edge of developing healthcare solutions. And you mentioned education, the delivery of state services. I mean, there are probably many ways that, that this new technology can be used to benefit our lives the way other technological revolutions.
- [33:07]
A
And so when it's doing that crunching, you know, for state services or helping kids in a classroom. Do you hope the data centers are in Kansas?
- [33:16]
B
I think that we're. We on the terms of the data centers. We need to make the right decisions for Colorado. And again, we're really at the, at the cutting edge of this. The question is going to be, can we have them here without driving up other people's electric rates? Can we have them here without creating resource issues that we're already contending with?
- [33:38]
A
Don't we know the answers to those? We know that they increase air pollution and they need water.
- [33:42]
B
I think we're learning the answers to those. Ryan and I want us to be smart about the way we approach it, not reactive about the way we approach it. I think a lot in this context, I think a lot about the fact that nobody, nobody has had a negotiation with Mark Zuckerberg over our data. No one in America has had a negotiation with Mark Zuckerberg over our data outside Europe. Yeah. Over our privacy, over our kids mental health. When I was the superintendent of schools in Denver, we never had a single conversation about the epidemic of mental health among our kids because we weren't having one yet. Now, 15 years later, it's everywhere. Because of social media, because of COVID because of the economic dislocation that people are feeling. And it's one of the reasons why I've always said that we should have in D.C. a new federal agency to actually regulate these guys, to be able to do it in real time, to be able to do it in a thoughtful way, to do it in a way that's much better than Congress would ever be able to figure out how to do it.
- [34:49]
A
But you build a state level Congress,
- [34:51]
B
Colorado is going to have to have an nimble approach to this. This can't be something where, you know, we pass something one year in A legislature and then hope 10 years later we're going to catch up to a decision that was made before. This is going to require, and it is. I think this is exciting, Ryan. It's going to require us to get out of those political corners and into a place where we're actually confronting the reality that especially our kids are going to be confronting. Parents and kids in Colorado are not saying to me, build a moat around Colorado, keep this technology out. They know that you can't build a moat around Colorado. But they want to make sure their kids are prepared to benefit from this. And they're worried already that their kids are not being prepared to succeed in the economy that they're inheriting as it is. Which by the way, is another reason why we should be thinking not how we keep everything the same, but how we actually innovate our school systems.
- [35:51]
A
I appreciate the description of the problem and I want to get to the how once again. So I hear perhaps the creation of a new state agency that's nimbly answering these questions. Do you like the idea of these moratoria that are in place locally that say, you know what, we have to consider these things before we welcome you to build them. Just get a little more.
- [36:15]
B
I would just say that I think that we should be thoughtful and, and approach it reasonably. That's what we should do. That is what we should do. That's what people want us to do. Okay.
- [36:31]
A
Thoughtful, reasonable.
- [36:34]
B
Well, that's the opposite of the approach that we've been taking here, which has been for people to go to their corners, their respective corners that may or may not have anything to do with reality and just, you know, fight it out on social media. I'm not sure that's going to get us where we need to go.
- [36:52]
A
Governor Polis says the state needs at least one new prison. Does it?
- [36:57]
B
I would much prefer that we didn't have to build one new prison. I think that I believe for a very long time that as a nation we've over incarcerated people. And I believe as a state that's true as well. I think we should do a better job of making sure that, that we have the chance for people that are in our system of prisons to have the opportunity to rehabilitate and to have the opportunity to re. Enter our society, reenter our community. And it's not my sense that we've done that very aggressively or.
- [37:32]
A
Well, do you think that this has been a tough on crime, democratic administration? Where do you.
- [37:40]
B
I wouldn't say you're saying that about the Polis administration?
- [37:43]
A
Well, I mean it's been in power for eight years.
- [37:47]
B
I just don't. I think that as a country in general, we have over incarcerated people compared to any other industrialized country in the world.
- [37:56]
A
But when it comes to state prisons, what do you do to make a change there?
- [38:01]
B
Well, I think that we need to do more to make sure that when people come in, they have the opportunity to be able to acquire the skills they need to succeed outside. And that we're using our system of incarceration to help people improve their lives, not just have a dead end of incarceration.
- [38:22]
A
You see a dearth of those programs in Colorado's facilities.
- [38:26]
B
It's not my sense that there's been a focus on that.
- [38:30]
A
Colorado has sued the Trump administration dozens of times. So much so that extra funding was needed for the attorney general's office. The ag, your opponent in this race, has also recovered funds. The administration clawed back. How do you see Colorado's approach? It's sort of legalistic approach to fighting back against the Trump administration?
- [38:54]
B
Well, I think we need to use every approach to fight back against the Trump administration.
- [39:00]
A
What tools would be in your toolbox as governor as any number of Colorado institutions are under attack? You know, be it the national labs here.
- [39:11]
B
Yeah, I mean, and this is something I've been leading in the Senate. I mean, with the fight against Trump on ice, the fight against Trump's attack on healthcare, Bobby Kennedy's insane anti vax stuff, the fight against their attempts to take away our public lands. And that fight will continue as governor of Colorado. And I'm looking forward to it. Not just because I'm not scared of a fight like that. I've spent my life running toward fights like that, but also because I don't think it's enough. I think what we also need is a vision about what the future of this state is going to be like. A vision for our kids and for our grandkids and for the country itself. I've said, I said the other night when we were having the debate that if Colorado elects me governor, I want to promise to them that the future of our state will not be defined by Donald Trump or by Trumpism. The future of our children will not be defined by Donald Trump or Trumpism. We have the ability to define the future for ourselves and for our children. And I think the most important thing we can do is create an economy that when it grows, it grows for everybody, not just the people at the very top, but the federal government has
- [40:29]
A
a lot of power. I mean, Be it highway funding, no question, be it the federal presence here, the federal laboratories. So I appreciate what you're saying, but to, at a certain extent, you're hamstrung, aren't you?
- [40:44]
B
What is the question in that where you asked the question, you're hamstrung, meaning
- [40:48]
A
what tools then are at your disposal?
- [40:50]
B
Well, we will survive. I look at it this way. We will survive the cuts that Donald Trump has made. I think we should fight against all of them. And I have, whether it's the labs that you're talking about or the Arkansas Valley conduit, which is something, believe it or not, Lauren Boebert passed unanimously through the House of Representatives and I passed unanimously through the Senate, and Donald Trump vetoed. But we cannot capitulate to Donald Trump's lawlessness. Colorado cannot capitulate to his lawlessness. And I would, would not, as governor, cut any deals with him that resulted in our getting more of that sort of funding if we were willing to, for example, let Tina Peters out or do other things that he wants us to do. Because I think lawlessness breeds more lawlessness. And that is very much what's at stake in America right now. We have a president who thinks nothing of punishing blue states and rewarding red states. That's not the American way. We have a president who is enriching himself, you know, to the tune of $4 billion with crypto, and thinks nothing of doing that. We have a president who has started a war in Iran without consulting with the Congress or meaningfully with our allies. I mean, I don't believe that that is where the American people are going to be in the long haul when it comes to our democracy. And in the meantime, what's critically important is that Colorado doesn't lose sight of the mission that we have for our state, for our families.
- [42:36]
A
The voice we're hearing could be Colorado's next governor. Democrat Michael Bennett must first win June 30's primary, then the general in November. For perspective, it's been 20 years since a Republican held the job. When we come back, trains, bikes and automobiles and why Senator Bennett calls Israel the one essential country. This is Colorado Matters from CPR News. It's Colorado Matters from CPR News. I'm Ryan Warner. Jared Polis is term limited. And this year, Colorado chooses his successor. If voters go with a Democrat, then it'll either be Phil Weiser or Michael Bennett. We heard from AG Weiser yesterday. Today, Senator Bennett, let's talk about transportation. I realize this question is a bit of a polemic Is it about highway expansion or is it about bike lane expansion?
- [43:32]
B
I think we need to not be polemic about transportation or transit. I just believe that. I don't see it that way. I think that we have had ever diminishing resources when it comes to transportation. That goes back to the tabor conversation we were having earlier, in part. And I don't think we have the luxury to treat these things as two separate things. I don't think we have the luxury of treating transportation as one thing and transit as the other. The citizens of Colorado, the taxpayers of Colorado who fund both, see them as an integrated whole. And that's how I look at them, too.
- [44:10]
A
And where will your emphasis be? So, for instance, in this preceding administration, there's been a lot of folks focus on electrifying the fleet, for instance. Is there a priority you bring in terms of transportation?
- [44:26]
B
There's a lot. There are. There are a lot of rural roads in Colorado that have not been paid attention to recently, and I think we need to pay attention to that. And I. I would say also that I'd like to see us focus on RTD and trying to improve the service that is provided by that enterprise.
- [44:45]
A
Any ideas you'd throw out on rtd?
- [44:49]
B
Well, I know there's some efforts right now to try to improve the governance of rtd, and I think that would be a welcome step.
- [44:56]
A
Colorado's governor has almost nothing to do with American foreign policy, but we got a lot of questions about some foreign policy votes you've cast. Senator, your support for military funding to Israel has come under scrutiny. How do you defend your record to Coloradans who feel a moral red line is being crossed in Gaza?
- [45:18]
B
Well, I have been a strong supporter of Israel the whole time that I've been in the Senate, but I think that, Ben, you've called it the one
- [45:26]
A
essential country on the planet.
- [45:29]
B
I have. I did say that. I said that on the floor of the Senate in the context of my mother's experience in the Holocaust. She was born in Warsaw in 1938. Her entire family was killed except for her and her parents and an aunt. And I think it's important for people to know, too, that she was separated from her parents for three years during the war, which has a profound effect. And that's what I meant. When an essential country, given the history of antisemitism in this world and given the particular history of the Holocaust, and I stand by those remarks, I think that Benjamin Netanyahu's prosecution of the war in Gaza has been horrific. I think that he has pursued it in a way that has benefited his domestic politics and has created devastation in Gaza that cannot be justified or defended.
- [46:31]
A
Is there any part of your tenure in the Senate that you think helped contribute to the monster you see created in Israel?
- [46:37]
B
I wouldn't. No, I wouldn't. I do not agree with that.
- [46:41]
A
Uh huh. And so what? Put your Senate hat on for me now because there are folks wondering about your policies here in the Senate as they decide who to vote for for governor. How do you see your role currently in effectuating some change at the top of Israel?
- [47:01]
B
I think that's a great question. I voted against the last National Defense Authorization Act. I voted for 15 of those in a row and I voted against the last one because Donald Trump was massing his armada, as he calls it, off the coast of Venezuela and he had not come to Congress for any approval for that. I voted against, against the subsequent appropriations bills that fund Donald Trump's Defense Department. Both of those are votes that are different from some other Democrats in the U.S. senate. The last time we had a vote on funding, on sending weapons to Israel, I voted against it because that was consistent with the vote that I had taken to keep these weapons from Donald Trump. And I felt that it was consistent to say that if I was going to deny Donald Trump those weapons, Benjamin Netanyahu should be denied those weapons as well.
- [48:03]
A
On similar grounds.
- [48:05]
B
On similar grounds.
- [48:06]
A
Senator, thank you.
- [48:07]
B
And by the way, let me just say on Ryan, I think it's a very important point. I believe very strongly that there should be constraints on Donald Trump and his exercise in foreign policy. I believe that there should be constraints on Benjamin Netanyahu and his exercise on his war powers. And I think right now they have been unconstrained in ways that are enormously problematic for the Middle east and for the world.
- [48:34]
A
Thanks for your time, Senator.
- [48:35]
B
Thank you so much for having me.
- [48:37]
A
US Senator Michael Bennett is running for governor. He faces State Attorney General Phil Weiser in the primary June 30th. We heard from Weiser yesterday, and both interviews are at ColoradoMatters.org. With producer tom hess. I'm ryan warner. This is cpr news and krcc.
- [49:16]
B
Sam.