Nov. 21, 2025: A snowless Metro Denver; New CEO takes root at Botanic Gardens; Local 303 celebrates 'Autumn'

Summary

Colorado Matters – November 21, 2025:

A Snowless Metro Denver, New Denver Botanic Gardens CEO, and Local 303 Celebrates 'Autumn'

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Overview

This episode of Colorado Matters, hosted by Ryan Warner and Chandra Thomas Whitfield, covers three main topics:

1. Denver’s historically snowless autumn and changing weather patterns.
2. A conversation with Donna McGinnis, incoming CEO of Denver Botanic Gardens, about accessibility and adapting to federal arts funding cuts.
3. Local 303's November music lineup, highlighting emerging Colorado artists and bands perfect for the autumn season.

The episode also touches on questions about Colorado's current economic outlook—are we stealthily entering a recession?—and a federal mineral survey project in rural Colorado.

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1. Denver’s Snowless November & Weather Patterns

Guest: Lisa Hidalgo, Chief Meteorologist, Denver7
Segment starts: 00:47

Key Points & Insights:

• Snow Drought: Denver's autumn continues with almost no measurable snow. Current statewide snowpack is at only 32% of normal (01:42).
• Balmy Weather: The latest storm brought rain to the Front Range instead of snow; mountain snow is also lagging badly (01:42).
• Storm Dynamics:
  • The arriving system was a "closed off low" lacking cold Arctic air, limiting its snow potential (02:21).
  • Absence of a strong jet stream kept winds calm—avoiding fire danger, but also eliminating snow opportunities (02:54).
• Warm & Dry Records:
  • If trends hold, this could be one of the warmest Novembers on record for Denver (03:41).
  • Precipitation for 2025 is slightly above average due to strong spring snows and summer rain, but autumn has dried out.
• Waiting for Snow:
  • This is the second-latest occurrence for the first measurable snowfall, behind only December 10, 2021—the start of the Marshall Fire tragedy (04:39).
• Ski Industry Outlook:
  • The ski season start is unusually delayed, reminiscent of 2016–17, a year that rebounded with late snows; hope remains for a pattern shift bringing more snow (05:15).

Memorable Quotes:

• Lisa Hidalgo (about measurable snow):
  “We are definitely waiting for that... With this system officially at the airport, it now puts us in second place, the second latest snowfall ever on record...” (04:39)
• Lisa Hidalgo on changing climate:
  “As a kid, we grew up in Colorado expecting it to snow on Halloween... The overall picture, it’s become a little harder to predict what’s gonna happen in a season.” (06:20)

Noteworthy Timestamps:

• 01:42 — Explanation of snowpack and the current storm’s limitations.
• 03:41 — Warmest November record; precipitation context.
• 04:39 — Historical context for late snowfall.
• 07:07 — Thanksgiving weather preview (“Weather-wise, like I said, pattern is shifting...better chance for some mountain snow.”)

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2. Colorado’s Economic Pulse: Are We in a Silent Recession?

Guest: Brian Lewandowski, CU Leeds School of Business
Segment starts: 08:10

Key Points & Insights:

• No Clear Recession—Yet:
  • Despite volatility in the stock market, economic data doesn’t conclusively point to a national or Colorado-specific recession (08:49).
• Mixed Economic Indicators:
  • National GDP growth remains positive, consumption is up, but job growth has halved compared to previous years (09:40).
  • Average national job growth: 76,000/month in 2025 vs. 154,000/month in 2024.
• Labor Supply Constraints:
  • Immigration policies (including tighter H1B and visa programs) are slowing labor-force growth, presenting long-term risk (12:04).
  • Aging population is a compounding demographic headwind.
• Colorado Specifics:
  • 15 years of top 5 economic performance now shifting to mid-tier rankings:
    • 2025: 22nd in GDP growth, 34th in employment growth, 29th in income growth (13:43).
  • Slower, but still positive, home price growth—now 50th in the nation at ~1% year-over-year (15:04).
  • Positive spin: metrics are improving compared to last year, although growth is slower.
• Other Factors:
  • Effects of federal government shutdown and tariffs have caused measurable disruptions.
  • Ongoing declines in federal employment: 2,700 jobs lost year-over-year in Colorado; government shutdown cost ~$15 million/day in lost wages locally (16:02).

Memorable Quotes:

• Brian Lewandowski:
  “This pace of growing jobs has been cut in half in a single year. And this is the slowest pace of growth that we've seen really since the pandemic.” (10:30)
• On home prices:
  “6% growth is not a sustainable growth rate for home prices in perpetuity… we’re now last in terms of home price growth.” (15:04)

Timestamps:

• 08:49 — Recession assessment.
• 09:40 — Mixed economic indicators.
• 13:43 — Colorado’s economic ranking shifts.
• 16:02 — Impact of government shutdown and federal employment.

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3. Federal Mineral Survey Over Rural Colorado

Reporting: Shawna Lewis & Jamie Jones (USGS Earth MRI Project)
Segment starts: 18:36

Key Points & Insights:

• Aerial Mineral Survey:
  • Helicopters equipped with sensors are flying low over Colorado to create detailed geological maps identifying mineral deposits and groundwater flows.
• Critical Minerals:
  • Interest in rare earth elements (critical to modern technology/national security) drives this federal research (19:51).
  • The U.S. currently has only one operational rare earth mine in the West; efforts aim to reduce dependence on Chinese supply and unstable foreign markets (20:10).
• Mine Waste as Resource:
  • Survey also checks if waste from old mines contains valuable minerals.
• Criticism from Environmentalists:
  • Aaron Mintzes (Earthworks) calls it an “unjustified minerals rush fomented by a purported but false emergency fabricated by the president…” (21:10).
  • He argues the mining regulatory system is outdated and fails to protect communities, especially Indigenous groups (21:44).

Memorable Quotes:

• Jamie Jones (USGS):
  “China is the dominant player in the rare earth market, and they have shown through export controls that they are willing to manipulate that market…” (20:10)
• Aaron Mintzes (Earthworks):
  “What we have is an absolute unjustified minerals rush fomented by a purported but false emergency fabricated by the president…” (21:10)

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4. New CEO at Denver Botanic Gardens: Donna McGinnis

Segment starts: 22:41

Key Points & Insights:

• Inclusivity & Accessibility:
  • McGinnis discusses how botanic gardens must be “everyone’s garden,” not just for the affluent or botanically literate (23:29).
  • Barriers include cost, transportation, and cultural/language inclusivity.
  • Her previous work in Naples, FL included multilingual signage and outreach (English/Spanish/Haitian Creole), partnerships with community leaders and local clergy, and celebrating diverse cultural events like Dia de los Muertos (25:11).
• Field Trips and Community Trust:
  • Overcoming “is this for me?” by arranging group transportation and collaborating with trusted local nonprofits (27:36).
• Leadership & Legacy:
  • Praise for predecessor Brian Vogt’s ambitious expansion and focus on equity and leadership development in public gardens (31:31).
  • Emphasis on workforce diversity, mentorship, and career pathways within public horticulture.
• Adapting to Funding Changes:
  • With federal arts/science funding shrinking, McGinnis stresses the need for diversifying income streams, focusing on individual donors, sponsors, and foundations (32:57).
  • Denver Botanic Gardens is “better situated than most major gardens” to weather these changes (33:41).

Memorable Quotes:

• Donna McGinnis:
  “It needs to be everybody's garden. It needs to be a garden for all.” (23:29) “You can't just go around town handing out tickets and expect a diverse audience to come.” (24:53) “If I have one piece of advice to share from the tropics, it is don't put an ice cube on your orchids to water them.” (29:51) “...we need to make sure that our workforce matches the people in our community.” (31:31) “It has probably weathered this change better than most of the large gardens in the US who really had all of their eggs in that federal grant basket.” (34:04)

Timestamps:

• 23:29 — Making Botanic Gardens accessible for all.
• 25:11 — Multilingual outreach and cultural celebrations.
• 29:51 — On the trials of growing (and killing) orchids.

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5. Local 303: Celebrating 'Autumn' with Colorado Music

Guests: Alicia Sweeney (Indy 102.3 Local Music Director); musical performances by Autumnal, Gasoline Lollipops, Broken Record, Photo Atlas, and Best Man.
Segment starts: 35:22

Key Points & Insights:

• Autumnal:
  • Fort Collins' “fuzz folk” act releases their debut album “The Seed Becomes Exposed”—music described as warm as your favorite fall sweater (36:04).
• Gasoline Lollipops:
  • Gothic Americana, classic Denver band still making an impact (38:38).
  • New record “Kill The Architect” explores singer Clay Rose’s journey of self-acceptance.
• Broken Record:
  • Once a DIY basement emo project, now a full indie band—recent single “T60” is a “total rocker” (41:23).
• Photo Atlas:
  • Dance-punk band reunites after a decade—track "Just Keep Moving On" (43:26).
• Best Man:
  • Heartfelt, folk-inspired singer-songwriter Emily Eicher (Best Man) uses music as therapy and an embrace of vulnerability, highlighted by the song “Look at What You Did” (45:05, 47:46).

Memorable Quotes:

• Alicia Sweeney:
  “It’s like your favorite fall sweater, in my opinion.” (36:31)
  “We contain multitudes, and the Colorado music scene truly contains multitudes.” (42:13)

• Ryan Warner (“Tank Punk” moment):
  “[Broken Record’s] new single: I’m calling it Tank Punk.” (42:07)

• On Best Man’s track:
  “This one ... holds both the ache of loss and the beauty of falling in love ... she started living her own truth, she came out as gay, and this song was born from that experience.” (47:50)

Timestamps:

• 36:04 — Autumnal “fuzz folk” and seasonal music reflections.
• 39:19 — Gasoline Lollipops and gothic Americana.
• 41:23 — “T60” from Broken Record.
• 45:05 — Best Man (Emily Eicher) and “Look at What You Did.”

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Notable and Memorable Moments

• Lateest Snowfall Context: “With this system officially at the airport, it now puts us in second place, the second latest snowfall ever on record...” (04:39)
• On barriers to participation in gardens: “Sometimes I don't know if that's for people like me. That can be something that's really important to address is being welcoming in language and culture and food and all of those things.” (23:29)
• Best Man’s theme of vulnerability as power: “She wants to show people that softness isn't weakness. That vulnerability is power...” (45:05)

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Musical Interludes:

• Autumnal – “Seed Becomes Exposed” & “Radio Silence” (35:22 – 37:18)
• Gasoline Lollipops – “Humanity” (39:19)
• Broken Record – “T60” (41:23)
• Photo Atlas – “Just Keep Moving On” (43:30)
• Best Man – “Look at What You Did” (45:04, 47:50)

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Episode Structure / Timeline

• 00:47 – Denver’s snowless autumn & climate chat with Lisa Hidalgo
• 08:10 – “Silent Recession” with Brian Lewandowski
• 18:36 – Federal mineral survey over Colorado
• 22:41 – Interview with Donna McGinnis, Denver Botanic Gardens CEO
• 35:22 – Local 303 music segment: New bands perfect for Autumn

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Overall Tone

The episode combines earnest, thoughtful interviews with a sense of local warmth and gentle humor, particularly in the music segment. Discussions are data-driven yet accessible, and guests frequently share personal insights.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode examined key environmental, economic, and cultural cross-currents in Colorado as 2025 ends: unusual weather, new nonprofit leadership, the complexities of economic uncertainty—and the joys and anxieties of both gardening and local music as the holidays approach. The candid stories from scientists, economists, and artists alike offer a layered portrait of a state in transition.

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Transcript

[Ryan Warner]

We used to be at the top.

[Brian Lewandowski]

Now we're in the middle by any economic metric. For about a 15 year period, Colorado was among the top five states nationally. Take a look at a short term, just one year and our rankings look a lot different. For employment growth right now we ranked 34th. For personal income growth, 29.

[Ryan Warner]

We take Colorado's Pulse in a new series, silent Recession. Then, as the federal government shrinks support for arts and science. Denver Botanic Gardens is well situated, says its new CEO.

[Donna McGinnis]

It has probably weathered this change better than most of the large gardens in the US who really had all of their eggs in that federal grant basket.

[Ryan Warner]

And we hold out on holiday music for a tad longer. In the local 303. It's Colorado Matters from CPR News. I'm Ryan Warner. For the Front Range. Some rain, no real flakes. The storm that has rolled in won't break metro Denver's snowless streak. That could change next week, says Chief Meteorologist at Denver7 Lisa Hidalgo. I cycled over to her station in positively balmy temperatures Thursday for our regular climate and weather chat. Welcome back to Colorado Matters.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

Thank you. Glad to be here and to talk all things. Kind of winter, right?

[Ryan Warner]

Kind of winter, I think sums up the season. This is not a snow packed storm, nor will it maybe affect the snow pack much, a little.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

In fact, most of the snow that we're going to see with this system falling in the mountains, especially down over the sea, southwestern corner of the state where actually they've had some decent numbers down in through the Dolores San Miguel river basin there at about 50% of average when it comes to snowpack. But when you look at the statewide number, we're down to about 32% of normal right now. It's been a very slow start to the season.

[Ryan Warner]

I mean, we are just careening towards December. It seems that this storm ought to be bringing snow rather than rain. What are the factors there? And there were signs early on that this storm might be a little bit.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

Of a weakling and not cold enough. That's exactly right. When we watch storms approaching Colorado, there's two different kinds of scenarios. We have this, which is a closed off low, which is basically its own little system rolling in from the west, which can bring a lot of moisture. But the problem is we don't have the cold air impacting it. We also have when we see the jet stream take a huge dive when we get a storm like that. That's a completely different stor because we're not only talking about moisture, we're also Talking about colder air coming in from the Arctic. And that combination is what would have given us a much better chance for some snow here in town.

[Ryan Warner]

The jet stream is not playing a role in this system.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

Correct. You know, typically the winds will kick up before a storm hits, Right? We get the warm, windy day right before the storm rolls through. We didn't see that with this system because we didn't have that front edge, that cold front, the edge of that jet stream rolling through to kick up those winds before the system rolled through. So actually, scenario wise, this was better because we didn't see the gusty winds. If we had, we probably would have seen some higher fire danger because it is so dry. So we didn't see that. But good dose of moisture. I mean, at this point, I kind of don't care how it's coming down. I just want some rain or snow across the state to, to bring those drought numbers down.

[Ryan Warner]

Where are we in terms of warmth and dryness on the Front Range in relation to records into November?

[Lisa Hidalgo]

Late November, typically by the end of November. So we're talking, what, week and a half out now here we would be at over a foot of snow in Denver. That would be our average by the end of November. So obviously nowhere near that number. Precip wise, when you look at our number from the beginning of the year, from January 1st, we're actually about an inch above normal. A little over an inch above normal. That's due to better snows that were from, you know, last spring and some good rain over the summer months. But still then things have dried out. So precip wise, we're still a little bit above normal when it comes to temperature. I just looked at the stats on that. If our temps were not to change here through the end of November, we would be looking at probably the first or second warmest November ever on record. Now we have some time here where those temperatures are probably going to drop us down, but I'd say we're going to at least be on the top 10 list when it comes to one of the warmest Novembers ever on record.

[Ryan Warner]

For measurable significant snowfall in metro Denver. I mean, essentially, we're still waiting.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

Oh, yeah, we are definitely waiting for that. I mean, you're looking at now dates that are pretty wild without getting snow. With this system officially at the airport, it now puts us in second place, the second latest snowfall ever on record, just behind December 10th. And that was back in 2021, which was the year of the Marshall Fire. So you hate to see us following In a trend under a year like that, when we had such devastation in.

[Ryan Warner]

Late December, I know that you recently met with folks involved in the ski industry. Do you have any sense of what the picture will look like for skiers and snowboarders this season?

[Lisa Hidalgo]

It is a late, super late start, obviously to the skis and snowboard season. But, you know, everybody stays optimistic because we have had years. In fact, I think this is going to be one of the driest, slowest starts to the ski season since the 2016, 2017 year. Keep in mind, that year we had some crazy late season snow. So our numbers actually really came up above normal that year. So a lot can change. We can still see an awesome ski season. People are still going to be enjoying the high country, and we do have a better pattern shift. I'd say we're finally starting to see a shift in the pattern where we're going to get more snow in the mountains.

[Ryan Warner]

The Colorado Climate center, which is based at CSU, finds the 2025 has been the 10th warmest year on record in their 130 years of data collection. And I got to thinking about the Longview here, Lisa, because you grew up along the Front Range, is your overall sense of weather here changing? I mean, do you think of it differently as what you experienced as a girl?

[Lisa Hidalgo]

I don't remember those years well, Ryan.

[Shawna Lewis]

It was so long ago.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

You know, it does feel different. I feel like as a kid, we grew up in Colorado just expecting it to snow on Halloween. You expected there to be snow on Christmas, you know, and maybe that was just me as a kid. I would say the overall picture, it's becoming a little harder to predict what's gonna happen in a season. I think our seasons do become a little trickier now with these predictions. And this year, you know, we're talking about a weak La Nina, which would typically lead to wetter than average conditions over the northern and central mountains and then drier conditions down to the southwest. But what's funny is, like I said, that southwestern corner actually has some better snowpack now than the north and central mountains.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay, I want to ask specifically about Thanksgiving. Should we be taking a lovely stroll after we've eaten too much turkey or tofurkey?

[Donna McGinnis]

Yeah.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

No matter the weather, you should be working some of that off. Yeah. Weather wise, like I said, pattern is shifting. So next week, so far it looks like we are tracking another system Wednesday into Thursday, and that would bring with it a better chance for some mountain snow. And we're gonna see chances off and on over the next five to seven days in the mountains. So crossing our fingers that things are changing.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay, so maybe some snowshoes if I go for the walk?

[Lisa Hidalgo]

Yes, yes. Or maybe some wellies. Remember, we're back to the welly talk.

[Ryan Warner]

Thanks for chatting once again about climate and weather.

[Donna McGinnis]

Yay.

[Lisa Hidalgo]

Let's go, winter. I'm just gonna be the rah rah, the cheerleader in the corner hoping for more snow.

[Ryan Warner]

Lisa Hidalgo is Chief Meteorologist at Denver7. After a break, we take a stethoscope to Colorado's economic heartbeat. This is Colorado Matters from CPR News.

[Shawna Lewis]

Support for Colorado Matters comes from the.

[Donna McGinnis]

Denver foundation, celebrating a century of impact.

[Shawna Lewis]

Building lasting legacies and stronger communities right here in Colorado. Learn [e-mail] this is Colorado Matters from.

[Ryan Warner]

CPR News and KRCC. I'm Ryan Warner. Is Colorado teetering on recession? Might we already be in one? Our new series, Silent Recession, puts these questions to people in power and people affected. The answers are complicated. Brian Lewandowski gets us started. He heads the business research division at CU's Leeds School of Business. And welcome back to the program, Brian.

[Brian Lewandowski]

Hi, Ryan. Nice to be back.

[Ryan Warner]

I'm seeing words like volatile and wobbly to describe the stock market. Have we seen enough? Are we in a recession?

[Brian Lewandowski]

I don't think there's real clear consensus on if we're in a recession. There's a whole host of factors that go into deciding if we are. My personal opinion right now, looking at the data, is that we're not in a recession as a nation. You can have states that are going through their own little business cycles. You can have industries that are going through their business cycles, and you have individuals that are impacted in many different ways. So you've got some people who might be out of work right now or people who are struggling to make ends meet. And so the economy probably doesn't feel great to everybody right now. But when we take a look at the broad data, it doesn't necessarily suggest that we are deep in a recession at this point.

[Ryan Warner]

Now, to this question of teetering, are we seeing indicators that one might be be nigh?

[Brian Lewandowski]

Again, I think the data's mixed. So I think when we take a look at some of the broad indicators, such as GDP growth, we had a really strong quarter in the second quarter. We were supposed to have the third quarter data by now, and it was delayed by the government shutdown. But expectations are that it was another fairly strong quarter of growth. The one indicator that I am continually looking at that we got a Glimpse of of is the national jobs report, and that made a little bit of a. An about turn and posted decent growth for the month of September. Then other indicators that we're looking at is consumption. And national retail sales continues to climb. So we see consumption up, we see a little bit of elevated inflation right now. But as we sort of take a look at this basket of metrics teetering, I wouldn't necessarily say that we're teetering on recession. I think there are factors, though, Ryan, that that could tip us there. I think a factor that can push us a little bit closer to a recession is if we see employment start to really evaporate. And we had signals of that in June and July and August where we had pretty slow job growth. And then it rebounded in September. And just to give you an indication of what that is, for the first nine months of 2025, the average job growth nationally per month was about 76,000 jobs. Compared to the same period a year ago. We had 154,000 jobs added per month. So this pace of growing jobs has been cut in half in a single year. And this is the slowest pace of growth that we've seen really since the pandemic. So I think that's a little bit worrisome that we see slow job growth. I think there's also reasons for this immigration policy constraining labor supply a little bit. And then also we hear from businesses over and over again about this period of uncertainty that we're in. And perhaps that period of uncertainty is causing businesses to pause a little bit on hiring, pause a little bit on investment within the economy.

[Ryan Warner]

Can we go maybe a little deeper into this notion of immigration enforcement making a dent? How did you phrase it?

[Brian Lewandowski]

On labor supply.

[Ryan Warner]

Right, labor supply. Yeah. Translate that for us.

[Brian Lewandowski]

So the growth of that labor supply has partially been fueled over the last several years by immigration, H1B visas. Very high skilled people coming into the country and working, for instance, at universities, they become part of the labor supply as well. Perhaps as some of the undocumented workers. It's sort of hard to understand where they're captured in the data. Nonetheless, if we are staving off that immigration into the country through these visa programs, that has a limiting factor on growth in our labor supply. We already have a pretty slow population growth within the country. So thinking about retirees and slow population growth, we have a demographic headwind that will impact labor supply not just in the short term, but in the long term. The question there is, how will we fill the jobs in the Future with a limited growth in labor supply.

[Ryan Warner]

At the beginning of this conversation, you said it's possible that there are these state level economies that function that look different from maybe the country as a whole or the global economy. So what do you see when you look at Colorado?

[Brian Lewandowski]

First, when we take a look back over the long term to the great financial crisis that really wrapped up around 2010, Colorado emerged from that as one of the strongest economies in the country. And so by almost any economic metric, for about a 15 year period, Colorado was among the top five states nationally.

[Ryan Warner]

I remember those days, Brian.

[Brian Lewandowski]

Right. And so then we, we take a look at a short term, just one year, and our rankings look a lot different. So for real GDP growth, we're more in the middle. We're 22nd in the country. For employment growth right now we rank 34. For personal income growth, we ranked 29th. There's a little bit of a positive story here. One is that all of these metrics are growing, so Colorado is still in a growth cycle. And also when I compare Colorado's one year growth today to Colorado's one year growth a year ago, our ranking has improved for some of these metrics. So we may still have a slower growth rate than we had a year ago, but we've sort of improved in our relative standing for some of these indicators.

[Ryan Warner]

Is it possible that things were just so good for so long that you plateau at a certain point, or if not plateau, that the growth slows?

[Brian Lewandowski]

Right. We kind of think about this. It's hard to maintain the sort of fast growth on growth that we were having for so many years. For instance, from around 2010 through 2023, Colorado had the fastest home price appreciation in the country. Our roughly average growth rate over that period was about 6%.

[Emily Eicher]

Wow.

[Brian Lewandowski]

6% growth is not a sustainable growth rate for home prices in perpetuity. And we see the other side of that a little bit with home affordability in the state. So now when we take a look at home price growth year over year, in 2025 for 50th, it's still growth. It's still about 1% growth year over year. But instead of being first like we were over that sustained period of time, we're now last in terms of home price growth.

[Ryan Warner]

I can hear people say, thank God, cool it already. Especially the ones who want to buy a home.

[Brian Lewandowski]

Yeah, if you're from the outside looking in, you sort of welcome this lower home price growth.

[Ryan Warner]

I want to talk about a few other specific factors. Because we invoked immigration tariffs, the shutdown how do those affect the economy? Do we know that yet?

[Brian Lewandowski]

There's indications of how some of these disruptions have impacted the economy. So at the national level, what we saw in the first quarter of this year was this phenomenon of front running the tariffs, this huge wave of imports as companies were trying to get goods into the country before tariffs took effect that actually ended up dragging down first quarter economic growth. And we saw that normalize in the second quarter. And so those are some of the distortions that we can see and we can measure. What we've also seen is a decrease in federal employment. And this is something we can measure within Colorado. We know that our federal employment is down about 2,700 jobs year over year within the state with the government shutdown. We really went through this blackout period with public data. So there's sort of indications of the disruptions, but the economic impact of that hasn't really been measured. When I do a rough estimation, Ryan, of the impact of federal workers not being paid, it costs about $15 million a day in income in Colorado. Just as those 40 some thousand employees are not earning their daily wages, a lot of that with the budget resolution, a lot of those wages will be paid back. So some of the things that those workers maybe would have been buying but they held off on, such as going out to restaurants or taking a vacation and staying in the hotel, those offerings expire. Right? You can't sort of redo a restaurant sale. But other things are pent up demand. So maybe they needed to buy a new appliance or something. Those are really delayed purchases. And so with that income restored for those furloughed workers, we should see very little disruption in those delayed purchases.

[Ryan Warner]

Hey, thanks so much Brian for this table setter for our new series.

[Brian Lewandowski]

Thanks for having me, Ryan. Appreciate it.

[Ryan Warner]

Brian Lewandowski heads the Business research division at CU's Leeds School of Business. We spoke for our series on air and online. Silent recession. Helicopters are flying over rural Colorado with something attached. They're part of a federal survey to find minerals. KRCC's Shawna Lewis reports.

[Shawna Lewis]

A helicopter takes off from a small airport in Salida. On it, a device inside a long boom attached to the nose of the craft reads the earth's magnetic field. In the cockpit, there's more equipment for different measurements. The pilot flies a grid pattern low over the landscape. After processing, the data collected eventually gets to Tien Grau, a Colorado based USGS geophysicist studying the region.

[Donna McGinnis]

The idea is to do geologic mapping from the air by measuring various fields Those properties tell us something about the.

[Shawna Lewis]

Rock types that are down there, Grau says. This new data will give them far more detailed geological maps than previously available, she says. Along with looking for minerals, there are other applications trying to understand where the.

[Donna McGinnis]

Groundwater flows on the subsurface landsite hazards.

[Shawna Lewis]

Geothermal exploration Jamie Jones sets the strategy for the Earth MRI project at usgs.

[Jamie Jones]

The decisions that we're charged with making right now relate to critical mineral resources. Do we have domestic supplies of critical mineral resources that we know about? Are there potential critical mineral resources that we don't know about?

[Shawna Lewis]

Jones says interest in rare earth elements and critical minerals has grown because they're essential in modern technology and have national security applications. He says there is one operating rare earth element mine in the western United States, but there's a push to find more domestic sources.

[Jamie Jones]

Otherwise, China is the dominant player in the rare earth market, and they have shown through export controls that they are willing to manipulate that market to control the availability of those materials. And so that was the set of commodities that sparked some of the original concern and recognition that we are dependent on other nations for our essential supplies of mineral commodities.

[Shawna Lewis]

The administration has also tasked the Earth MRI project with helping to determine if the waste left over from old or existing mines contains some of these materials.

[Jamie Jones]

Mine waste presents an opportunity to perhaps look at something that's already been concentrated. It's easier to move.

[Shawna Lewis]

But he says quantities could be small. And not everyone agrees with this overall push to look for critical minerals and rare earth elements. Aaron Mintzes is with Earthworks, a national group focused on preventing the adverse impacts of mineral and energy development.

[Jamie Jones]

What we have is an absolute unjustified minerals rush fomented by a purported but.

[Brian Lewandowski]

False emergency fabricated by the president, and that's perpetuating a series of executive orders.

[Shawna Lewis]

He says those orders relate to some recent proposed mining projects that have had very short public comment periods, as little as a couple of weeks for a uranium mine in Utah.

[Brian Lewandowski]

What we need is an update to.

[Jamie Jones]

Our mining statute, which is from 1872 and is deeply unfair to communities directly.

[Brian Lewandowski]

Impacted by mines, particularly indigenous communities. It's very difficult to stop a mine. The government can rarely say no to a mine.

[Shawna Lewis]

Minsis concedes that China has captured much of the minerals market for a long time. But he says the Earth MRI program itself shows that these materials can be found elsewhere, including in mine waste. He says that, too, needs better regulation. Industry scientists and others will use data from Earth MRI to evaluate whether the resources can be economically obtained here in the United States. Shanna Lewis, KRCC News and Colorado Matters.

[Ryan Warner]

Continues in the next half hour to ask a new CEO, how do your gardens grow?

[Emily Eicher]

Ryan?

[Ryan Warner]

I'm Ryan Warner. You're with CPR News and krcc. It's Colorado Matters from CPR News. I'm Ryan Warner. Roses are red, violets are blue. The Denver Botanic Gardens has a new CEO and Donna McGinnis. Welcome to the program, Ryan.

[Donna McGinnis]

It's great to be here.

[Ryan Warner]

You were selected after a quote, intensive six month search. Your predecessor, Brian Vogt, died of cancer. Donna, you're leaving Naples Botanical Garden. That's one of the wealthiest communities in Florida and frankly, the country. I was caught by a quote in the announcement of your Denver selection. I have a passion for removing barriers that may prevent some from visiting. What does that look like for Botanic Gardens?

[Donna McGinnis]

What we're talking about is it needs to be everybody's garden. It needs to be a garden for all. And that's part of the job of these spaces. We're often the place where people come to celebrate, maybe to come to a special event. Maybe you come every year with your mother on Mother's Day. We're often a place that you reflect maybe after a tough diagnosis or something difficult that's happened in your life. Very often we're the place that people go for a remembrance when something's happened in a community. And we're a great place to learn and to recreate when it comes to being available to everybody. I really admire how this garden has done that. Sometimes it's economic barriers, can I afford the entrance fee with the budget I have set aside for fun and recreation. But sometimes it's transportation, which is, can I get there Sometimes I don't know if that's for people like me. That can be something that's really important to address is being welcoming in language and culture and food and all of those things. I think we know in the garden and museum world that you can't just go around town handing out tickets and expect a diverse audience to come. You have to really define yourself as a place that is for you and welcoming to you. And this garden is exceptional at that.

[Ryan Warner]

What's an example of that? I'm so struck by that phrase, is this a place for me? I mean, growing up, my sense is that Botanic Gardens were always very rarefied, you know, and what does it mean to tell someone, yes, this is for you?

[Donna McGinnis]

You know, I'll give you an example from my experience at the garden in Naples. It is a community that has, which you might not expect, a very large Haitian expat population. It's one of the largest populations of Haitian expats is in Florida. And Haitian Creole is the third most spoken language in the state. English, Spanish, Haitian Creole. And we knew that in our community that was an audience that wasn't showing up. And in working with leaders and opinion leaders in that audience, we came to understand that language was going to be very important. So at this garden you'll find everything in English, Spanish and Haitian Creole. And that we celebrate Haitian Flag Day and that we're closely connected with the pastors of the Haitian churches because that's sort of the central community connection. And I think what you see happening at Denver Botanic Garden is very similar. Like even most recently the huge celebration of Dia de los Muertos.

[Ryan Warner]

Do you grow plants there that are special to Haitian Creole culture?

[Donna McGinnis]

Well, the garden that I'm coming from in Naples, you know, we're far enough south in Florida that we're more Caribbean than North American in a lot of ways. So we grow the same plants and trees. Probably the closest connection is with fruit trees. When a multi generation Haitian family will visit, you'll often see the elders talking about, I had this in my yard. You know, this is part of something we used for celebrations, part of our diet. So I think the food connection you'll find across the board is often the entry point.

[Ryan Warner]

I lived in southwest Florida for a time and I was always struck that just outside of Naples is Immokalee, Florida, which is where most fast food tomatoes are grown and of course picked by farm workers. And I was thinking in preparing for this interview that that is a growing and harvesting tradition of its own on a massive scale mere paces from you. Did the botanical gardens in Naples reflect that working class tradition in some way?

[Donna McGinnis]

Absolutely. So it's about a 45 minute drive from Naples, but it is a world away. But it is part of our community that should be reflected here and those students should have field trips here. There is a lot of great crossover in food in general, but in agriculture in particular, and new methods and new research. But the residents of that community were not part of our audience. Number one, the transportation was a significant barrier, but also it was not even so much is that a place for us. But it's like, why would I add that to the list of things I might do with my family on a Saturday? So we adopted something that Denver had already been doing, which is funding that transportation and making sure that there was transportation for a group of people to come. And when you invite a group of people to come together. And especially if you connect nonprofit agencies they already trust and work with, such as Salvation army or, you know, a local chamber of commerce. And I have to say, if you throw in food, then you've got it.

[Ryan Warner]

Yeah, I tend to show up to things that offer food. I get it.

[Donna McGinnis]

That's right. That's right.

[Ryan Warner]

And it sounds like you say that's one something that Denver has been doing and that I suspect you will support and carry forward. I can't recall ever asking a guest this, but what's your favorite plant? Donna McGinnis.

[Donna McGinnis]

Oh. So I grew up in the Pacific Northwest, and I'm really a tree person, so I would say the Sitka spruce, which is this fantastic evergreen, is probably my favorite here.

[Ryan Warner]

I'm going to Google. What is it? Sitka, like Alaska?

[Donna McGinnis]

Yep. Sitka spruce.

[Ryan Warner]

Oh, it's quite lovely. Oh, goodness. Its evergreen needle pattern is unusual, isn't is?

[Donna McGinnis]

And it's one of those, you know, when I go back to visit my family and you're driving on the highway in western Washington, it's just one of those things that you see in the mountains, but then even lining the highways as you head for home. So it's just sort of one of those beacons for me.

[Ryan Warner]

Will you tell us about a plant you've killed?

[Donna McGinnis]

Okay, so I will admit I am not a plant expert, but I have other talents that I bring to a botanical garden. So I would have to say my learning curve with orchids living in Florida was a little bit dicey. And so I tried so hard to grow orchids. And then I came to understand that you can try too hard and love them to death. If I have one piece of advice to share from the Tropics, it is don't put an ice cube on your orchids to water them. So once I just sort of stepped back and let the orchids do what they wanted to do. And, you know, in Florida, you can leave them outdoors, then they flourished. But I have to admit, I killed many an orchid in my early days. Orchids are sort of like cats. They're going to bloom when they want to, and they don't care when you want them to bloom.

[Brian Lewandowski]

Yeah.

[Ryan Warner]

Orchids are the divas. I think of the.

[Donna McGinnis]

They are. They are gorgeous. They deserve all of that hype.

[Ryan Warner]

Your predecessor, Brian Vogt, has been described by one source I spoke with as astonishing and ambitious. He made everything from the parking facility at Denver Botanic Gardens, which is like, it's hard to just call that a parking structure. It's like a parking structure. Befitting a botanic gard, he made the Friar Newman center possible, which features exhibit and research space and a theater. According to the dbg, attendance and membership are inching up year over year. So, Donna, do you keep a steady course or do you head in a new direction?

[Donna McGinnis]

You know, that is really a good question. I would say Brian did amazing things with that garden and really in the Denver community, But what people might not know is how much he did just for the field of public gardens as well. And he really challenged us as a field to be champions of nature, to address the challenges of climate change, how we should be educating people, how we should be putting solutions forward. And he also opened people's eyes to who we have in the public garden industry, both in terms of horticulture, but in a lot of the different professions that are involved in running a public garden, from the science to the visitor experience. And said we need to make sure that our workforce also matches the people in our community. It needs to be more diverse. We need to be thoughtfully thinking about who we're bringing up, who we are training to be leaders and giving them a career path. So those are some of the things that are on my mind before we go.

[Ryan Warner]

You co wrote a 2024 book about museum fundraising. This was before a massive federal disinvestment in science and the arts. Is what you wrote, and is your knowledge base moot as a result of these changes, or is there a relevant lesson you might share with with us?

[Donna McGinnis]

Oh, gosh, you know, I think it's more important than ever. And it really was about helping smaller organizations and early career professionals who wanted to be leaders understand what is fundraising and how do I get started with it. But I think now, especially with the cuts that we're seeing at the federal level, it becomes more important than ever for us to diversify the funding sources that we have and to really be focused on the individual people who really care about this work and making it happen. And it is everything from the member that renews every year and wants to come participate at the garden to the companies who want to be sponsors, but also those thoughtful individuals and foundations who get maybe the science or the investment in the next program, and they're willing to put their dollars there. The Denver Botanic Gardens does that very, very well. It has probably weathered this change better than most of the large gardens in the US who really had all of their eggs in that federal grant basket.

[Ryan Warner]

Oh, interesting.

[Donna McGinnis]

Yeah.

[Ryan Warner]

Well, Donna, I hope you weather the transition from humid to bone dry with some success, because, boy, are you moving Growing zones I am.

[Donna McGinnis]

And elevation.

[Brian Lewandowski]

Yes.

[Donna McGinnis]

So my home in Florida that I am leaving is at 11ft above sea level.

[Ryan Warner]

Well, I suppose I could have formed a question about challenges you'll face, but you just did it for me. Hey, Donna. Thank you so much.

[Donna McGinnis]

You're welcome.

[Ryan Warner]

Donna McGinnis will become the new CEO of Denver Botanic Gardens February 2nd. We'll be right back with autumn, the season, and the band. This is Colorado Matters from CPR News. It's Colorado Matters from CPR News. I'm Ryan Warner. The Mariah Carey memes are creeping out Distant and then a little bit closer Echoes of All I want for Christmas is you for now, though, we are going to ward off the holiday music with some alternative programming.

[Emily Eicher]

Pools on the ground around my feet A mirror of silver of silver silver I don't believe that I'm a quitter I don't believe that I'm a quitter I'm. I can't seem to leave things to sit and simmer.

[Ryan Warner]

Time for some local Music selections from indy1002.3's Alicia Sweeney, the great curator of Colorado crooners. Hi, Alicia.

[Brian Lewandowski]

Hello.

[Ryan Warner]

For November's Local 303, you just had to feature a band named Autumnal. Again, we're not only warding off the holidays, but apparently winter. Tell us about what we've been hearing.

[Alicia Sweeney]

Well, autumnal tis the season. Ryan. This is the Fort Collins Fuzz act that has finally released their debut album.

[Ryan Warner]

Wait, wait, wait. Fuzz act?

[Alicia Sweeney]

Yeah, fuzz folk act. You know. No, it's a little bit fuzzy, a little bit folky. Imagine, like, wearing your favorite fall sweater and. Right. That's what their voices sound like when we were just listening.

[Ryan Warner]

Fuzz folk.

[Emily Eicher]

Okay.

[Alicia Sweeney]

Fuzz f. Folk. So they've been on my radar for a few years. I've caught them live at some festivals and local shows, and now they have been working on their debut record. It is finally out. It's perfect for this time of year and these nostalgic songs. It's like your favorite fall sweater, in my opinion.

[Ryan Warner]

Fuzzy. Warm fuzzy. What's the name of the record?

[Alicia Sweeney]

Well, the new record is called the Seed Becomes Exposed.

[Ryan Warner]

The seed Becomes Exposed. Didn't you grow up in Fort Collins?

[Alicia Sweeney]

I did. So this is a lovely hometown band for me.

[Emily Eicher]

Aw.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay, I am just craving another one from Autumnal. The name of this track, also from the new record, is Radio Silence. Now, that's usually something we try to avoid.

[Emily Eicher]

I had dreams I don't remember But I know they were a few of all, all the ways you Used to hurt me and the things we used to do Now I'm home again Last I had been away too long I got lost While I was driving in the town where I am from 40 minutes of radio silence the empty studio was quiet Driving through the snow excited I knew home was close again after being gone forever I just want to see a friend.

[Ryan Warner]

Ooh, the harmonies on both of these tracks, it's also interesting that something can sound forlorn, but also kind of cute. Okay, our next pick. Your next pick comes from a band we feature just recently on Colorado Matters. Alicia, why have you brought Gasoline Lollipops to our little listening booth?

[Alicia Sweeney]

Well, this is one of those bands that consistently impresses with each release. And at this point, Gasoline Lollipops is one of those bands that I root for to transcend aud beyond Colorado to kind of show the world that this classic Denver sound of gothic Americana that I started chasing in the 90s, that gained attention across the States and in Europe back then, that this 90s Gothic Americana is still alive. And you know, as I say this perhaps Gasoline Lollipops. Clay Rose is our modern day answer to David Eugene Edwards from 16 horsepower from the 90s that is so beloved and called one of the godfathers of gothic Americana.

[Ryan Warner]

I want to hear humanity. I think this will embody very well the genre. Outside it's hot, smoke fills the air? There's a fire down the block, nobody cares the only man at church is bum on the stairs? I guess you can't go to hell, you're ready there. I said hey, humanity, you look a lot like me? You look a lot like me when you're down in that hole that you dug on your knees? But don't it feel like a drug when it puts on the screen? The track is humanity. The new album is Kill the Architect. And it's just lovely how Clay Rose discusses this album as a manifestation of his journey to accept his more feminine side. Okay, the band's been on the Colorado scene for a decade or so. Alicia, do you want to throw something, someone into the mix who's on the rise?

[Donna McGinnis]

Yeah.

[Alicia Sweeney]

In the local 303 this month is a band that I've heard whispers about over the last several years, and they're called Broken Record. And I was told by one of my Colorado music buddies that I have to catch them live because they didn't have any music out. So I seeked out the group, saw them live, fell in love with them, and they've now gone from DIY basement emo Project to full fledged indie rock band and they just put out a new album. And I want to share a little bit of this album with you. This is their new single called T60 that we've been highlighting this month, and it's a total rocker. They have undeniable melodies together and it kind of lifts the band's sound from DIY to some new heights. You're going to hear it in some of this feedback on the guitar solo.

[Ryan Warner]

I don't know if this is a reference to the T60 light tank from the Soviet Union. Any idea?

[Alicia Sweeney]

I believe it is.

[Emily Eicher]

I woke with sun in my eyes Stunted by my choice to do it Sleep with Share a stupid curse oh, well, I miss you.

[Ryan Warner]

Put up her own. Okay. I'm calling it Tank Punk. Tank Punk.

[Alicia Sweeney]

Punk. I'm into it.

[Ryan Warner]

I mean, you're just throwing genres left and right, Alicia. I get to make one up here and there.

[Alicia Sweeney]

Well, you know, I love the idea of we contain multitudes, and the Colorado music scene truly contains multitudes.

[Ryan Warner]

This is a tough transition to go from that kind of punk sound to even invoking Thanksgiving. But indeed, the holiday's almost here, and I think the theme of your next selection, reunion, resonates with the idea of families coming together. What's the story here?

[Alicia Sweeney]

Well, the photo atlas. Now, this is a dance punk band from Denver, and they started in 2004 and then played for like a decade, not only in the Denver music scene, but across the country. They had a lot of traction and then they called it quits for a decade and then they reformed. And this group is fronted by Alan Andrews Jr. And they really were a local favorite in the early 2000s indie rock scene. They would throw these dance party live shows. They had this DIY attitude. And they're back and just as excited as ever and a little bit more mature as ever with writing and recording new music together.

[Ryan Warner]

Reunited. And it feels so good.

[Alicia Sweeney]

Oh, yes, it does. And the band is so excited to be back together. Here's their song. Just keep moving on.

[Emily Eicher]

The wrong. You never seem too far out Maybe there's no difference Maybe you're too far away Far away. You're okay, you're okay. But now we control. Just keep moving. Someday we. For now, we got to just keep moving on. Maybe it's the time.

[Ryan Warner]

Alicia, I. I don't know if I'm picking up on a theme, but, girl, do you have some. Maybe a little angst to work through before the holidays arrive? You doing okay?

[Alicia Sweeney]

I feel seen, Ryan. Thank you. It's been A tough one.

[Ryan Warner]

Well, it's nice to get the rage out a little bit and then calmer heads prevail. At the Thanksgiving table, perhaps.

[Alicia Sweeney]

Absolutely. And again, we contain multitudes.

[Ryan Warner]

Okay, rounding out this month's lineup, an Arvada artist. You've saved the best for last, as it were.

[Donna McGinnis]

Yeah.

[Alicia Sweeney]

Best man, this is the Tender hearted folk project from Emily Iker, who just debuted this year. And she's originally from Michigan and has been in Denver for a while. And her music has always been a kind of therapy.

[Emily Eicher]

I don't care what we do. I can't wait to spend my time with you.

[Alicia Sweeney]

And so with Best man, she invites listeners into her therapeutic space. And she wants to show people that softness isn't weakness. That vulnerability is power, you know, tugging at her heart with those things. And every lyric that she writes, she says is pulled straight from the seams of her real life experiences. And I want to say that you can catch Best man live at this month's Local 303 meetup, which is on Monday night, November 24, Skylark Lounge.

[Emily Eicher]

I try to distract you it's not that you want me Me too. But I hope that you like it Cuz I want your attention too oh.

[Ryan Warner]

This is going to be a treat to see live. And Alicia, folks who show up to this month's Local 303 meetup to see Best man and its creator, Emily Eicher, they're going to have an opportunity to bring a little of their own sweetness.

[Brian Lewandowski]

Right.

[Alicia Sweeney]

I want to mention if you attend our meetup this month, you can feel good and help us make a big impact for Youth on Records dinner table project. We're accepting food donations for their dinner table boxes and collecting items at our meetup as well. And it'll help impact the young music community. And I'm going to bring all those donations to Youth on Record and help put together these meal totes myself.

[Emily Eicher]

They forgot to change mine. I'm an open book. When you don't look.

[Ryan Warner]

I'm not letting you go, Alicia, until you tell us what this song's about.

[Alicia Sweeney]

This one is look at what you did. And it's really a haunting track from Best man that holds both the ache of loss and the beauty of falling in love. And I want to mention that this song by Best man is one that she wrote when she. She started living her own truth. She came out as gay. And this song was born from that experience.

[Ryan Warner]

Alicia, thank you so much.

[Alicia Sweeney]

Thank you.

[Ryan Warner]

Happy Thanksgiving.

[Alicia Sweeney]

You as well.

[Emily Eicher]

It would be worse if you'd waited. You can't keep it, That would be far more worse.

[Ryan Warner]

Alicia sweeney is local music director at our sister service, indy 1023. Catch her and best man at this month's local 303 meetup Monday at denver's skylark lounge. Thanks for spending time with us, and thanks to the colorado matters team.

[Brian Lewandowski]

Team tyler bender, carl bielek, anthony cotton, pete kramer, andrea dukakis, zan huckpeccione, matt herz, tom hess, michael hughes, pedro lumbra, shane rumsey, haley sanchez, chandra thomas whitfield.

[Ryan Warner]

And I'm ryan warner at cpr news and kr.

[Emily Eicher]

Simple when you're falling for her, you try to ignore it, but she's pulling at your shirt.

[Donna McGinnis]

This is cpr news 90.1 fm, kcfr denver 1490am, kcfc boulder on hd at 90.1 fm. And on your smart speaker, say, play cpr news.