Compact Podcast: “Extreme Home Makeover: MAGA Edition”

Date: January 27, 2026
Host: Geoff Shullenberger
Guests: Ashley Frawley, Matthew Schmitz

Episode Overview

This episode dives into two headline topics: the tense events surrounding recent ICE raiding and shootings in Minnesota, and Donald Trump’s literal and symbolic remaking of the White House aesthetic. The discussion is grounded in analysis of events, media responses, and shifting political/cultural moods, with both rigorous disagreement and humorous asides.

1. Minnesota ICE Shootings: Crisis, Escalation, and Blame

Background & Key Events

• Two recent federal shootings (Alex Preddy and Renee Goode) amidst anti-ICE protests in Minnesota.
• Compact’s Alicia Nieves wrote “How Pro-Immigrant Activism Turned Dangerous,” cited as a highly detailed, prescient piece on the changing nature of protest and law enforcement response.

Shullenberger’s Framing & Hesitations

• (03:40) “There’s been a lot of justifiable horror at the shootings [...] Clearly Donald Trump is trying to recalibrate.”
• Emphasizes the complexity of assigning fault without all evidence.
• Sees hope in potential de-escalation through leadership shuffles (Greg Bevino out, Tom Homan in at ICE).

Frawley: Outrage and the “Turning Point”

• (05:24) “How could you watch this video and say, we haven’t seen all the angles? Come on. Really? [...] You’ve got these trigger-happy, almost certainly very little training bandits...”
• Calls out what she sees as a “clear as day” misuse of force, poor training, and a “just really galling” incident.
• Feels this marks a deeper turning point—even for Republicans viewing the video.
• (06:59) “They executed a man in the streets because they got these fun little toys and they wanted to play with them.”
• Suggests the killings are symptomatic of failed training and militarization.

Schmitz: Journalistic Hedges & Broader Questions

• (07:48) “It seems clear to me that the agents acted wrongly. But in terms of assigning blame or culpability, that’s where I hesitate.”
• Draws sports metaphor: things often seem clearer in hindsight than chaotic real time.
• Notes that deploying Border Patrol agents outside their usual context may have contributed to problems.

Training, Recklessness, and Escalation

• (10:58) Frawley: “There’s something called a kill pause... in that split second before you kill somebody, you are supposed to pause.”
• Critiques both the real-time event and the underlying culture/training, referencing Al Jazeera’s reporting on training documents that allegedly prioritized “how to use deadly force without getting in trouble” over de-escalation.
• Suggests the mindset is “not trying to de-escalate.”

On Blame and Protest Tactics

• Both speakers note danger of escalation on both sides—officers untrained or poorly trained, and activist tactics shifting from legal assistance to direct confrontation.
• (15:03) Frawley: “You’ve got poor training it seems to me—and these escalating tactics. Both sides escalating, and then you get this awful situation.”

Meta-Analysis: Social Perception and Polarization

• (16:13) Schmitz: “The presence of video evidence won’t lead to consensus. It will almost just create further grounds for disagreement and contention.”
• Suggests the need is not only for well-trained officers but also less combustible activist–state showdowns.

Systemic Impasse: Escalation and Legal Gridlock

• (18:24) Frawley: “It’s just sort of these competing attempts to control immigration... creating an impossible situation because at the end of the day, a country does have to control its borders.”
• Laments a stalemate: “States are less and less able to control their borders [...] This is leading to crackdowns.”
• Discusses the “arms race” in activism and enforcement internationally.

The Second Amendment Angle & Trump’s Narrative

• (23:33) Frawley: “...for a lot of people, this is the end point. But I don’t think that’s the end of Trump loyalty. I think we'll see that down the road when people eventually have to come to terms with... material life gets worse.”

2. Trump’s White House Makeover: Gaudy Aesthetics & Cultural Meaning

Description of the Makeover

• (24:35) Schmitz: “The White House continues to undergo a facelift and spray tan under the direction of Donald Trump [...] far more portraits in the Oval Office, more flags. Prominent color being gold...”
• Notably includes:
  • Gilded frames with Trumpian captions
  • Joe Biden’s “portrait” replaced by an auto-pen signature machine
  • An intentional, over-the-top embrace of “gaudiness”

Frawley’s Reaction: Tacky but Honest

• (26:57): “He’s such a cliche of the nouveau riche... It does look really, really gaudy. But you know what? If I hadn’t seen pictures of his apartments... I honestly wouldn’t know the difference.”
• Finds a kind of performative honesty in the exuberance—admits a grudging “part of me loves that it’s this in-your-face kind of gaudiness.”
• Jabs at the White House designers “playing house,” pulling stately objects out of storage to create the Trump-ified aesthetic.

Schmitz’s Aesthetic & Historical Defense

• Invokes art historian Johann Winckelmann’s “noble simplicity and silent grandeur” as the traditional White House ideal.
• (29:35): “Trump, I think, is deviating from the Winckelmann line. Where is the noble simplicity? It’s not simple... it’s shouting.”
• Offers a twist: Even classical Greek art was garish when new—noble simplicity was a later projection. Maybe Trump’s gaudiness is more honest to American exuberance than austerity is.
• “If America ever does achieve greatness, it will be somewhat kind of Technicolor or gilded..."

Satire & Cultural Capital

• (33:16) Frawley: “I feel like Trump is kind of serious in his attempts to gild everything, but it’s a country that’s not taking itself seriously...”
• Frawley and Schmitz compare America's attempts to French (successful) and Latin American (less so) stately palaces—arguing Trump's White House falls somewhere in between.

The Meaning of Taste in Decline

• (36:27) Schmitz: “Perfect taste can go along very well with decline.”
• Frawley: “Let’s have gaudiness that has some real material exuberance behind it. Gaudiness for everyone—everyone gets gilded portraits in their houses!”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• (05:24) Frawley (on the ICE shooting):
  “You can just see the M.O. The guy wasn’t even paying attention... That was his permission to unload. It was an absolute mess. And they, they executed a man in the streets because they got these fun little toys and they wanted to play with them.”

• (07:48) Schmitz (on hindsight):
  “When you watch things in slow motion or afterwards, they appear more obvious than they did in the moment.”

• (10:58) Frawley (on police training):
  “You are trained specifically to have a pause, to have a pause before you use lethal force. And it was quite clear that there was not that pause.”

• (16:13) Schmitz (media analysis):
  “The presence of video evidence won’t lead to consensus. It will almost just create further grounds for disagreement and contention.”

• (24:35) Schmitz (on Trump’s White House):
  “The White House continues to undergo a facelift and spray tan under the direction of Donald Trump, real estate mogul and tastemaker extraordinaire. He has added gilding everywhere, of course.”

• (29:35) Schmitz (cultural critique):
  “Trump, I think, is deviating from the Winckelmann line. Where is the noble simplicity?... It’s sort of shouting its grandeur or greatness.”

• (33:16) Frawley (on seriousness):
  “It’s so over the top, like nobody is serious with that... I feel like Trump is kind of serious in his attempts to, like, gild everything, but it's a country that's not taking itself seriously.”

• (36:27) Schmitz (summation):
  “It looks bad, but... I will take art that looks bad for if it goes along with a kind of more genuine national exuberance... perfect taste can, can go along very well with decline.”

Key Timestamps

• [03:35] Minnesota shooting context, Compact’s reporting highlighted
• [05:24] Frawley’s sharp condemnation of law enforcement actions
• [07:48] Schmitz’s legal caution and reflection on video analysis
• [10:58] Detailed critique of police training and escalation, Frawley
• [15:03] Echoing Compact’s critique, escalation as systemic problem
• [18:24] Discussion of legal activism vs. state authority, Frawley on the “arms race”
• [23:33] Second Amendment, narrative cracks in Trump’s base
• [24:35] Introduction of the Trump White House remodel segment
• [26:57] Frawley on the new decor—“cliche of the nouveau riche”
• [29:35] Schmitz invokes Winckelmann and the deeper historical meaning of taste
• [36:27] Reflection on taste, exuberance, and national character

Final Takeaways

• ICE Shootings: The episode offers a nuanced but passionate debate about culpability, the dangers of escalation, and the failures of both activist and state tactics. Both agree the outcome was avoidable and tragic.
• Trump’s White House: The second half pokes fun at, but also probes, what Trump’s gilded aesthetic says about American society—arguing it might be more honest (and funnier) than the nation likes to admit.
• Big Themes: Escalation vs. de-escalation, how media and video evidence deepen division, and what symbols say about the shifting American self-image.

For further reading, the hosts strongly recommend Alicia Nieves’s article, “How Pro-Immigrant Activism Turned Dangerous” at Compact.