B (3:08)

Hello?

A (3:08)

Yeah, I'm here. Wow, you light up a room. All right, listen, you had that coming, you know you did. I know. No, you're a fantastic fellow.

B (3:17)

Hey, thanks.

A (3:17)

Yeah. And you're about to move into a new apartment. I'm very happy for you. But you made the mistake of showing me a video of your apartment and all I've done is give you a hard time. I was excited. We were together. Whenever I got the email that we got approved and I was like, oh, here's the new apartment. And ever since then, I've regretted everything I have because I used anything I saw in the apartment. It's very nice. It's two floors, it's got two balconies. And I start to go after him like, oh, two floors, huh? What am I paying you? Oh, God, you've got two balconies. I don't have two balconies. And so anytime you open up to me as a friend, I quickly use it against you. Yes. You know what? I don't want to speak anymore about our trivial matters because I am over the moon about today's guest. Very excited. This is a guy who I have a lot of respect for. I have a lot of respect for him. And we have worked in a similar profession and we have a lot of things I think in common. Uh, and I just. I've always heard he's a lovely guy. And I'm so excited that we get to chat. So let's get right into it. My guest today is an actor, He's a comedian, he's a talk show host who now has a new book. And I've read this book and it's great. It's titled A Memoir. I am just. Well, this isn't a job. This is just a really fun thing I get to do. Arsenio hall. Welcome.

B (4:53)

Relieved.

A (4:54)

Relieved? Why relieved?

B (4:57)

See, I should have prepared. Okay, being totally honest, if you have to take it out, take it out. Last night, me and Howie Mandel arrived in Beverly Hills to do a benefit for abused animals with Jay Leno.

A (5:13)

Yeah, yeah.

B (5:14)

So, because this is last night, about 8 o', clock, and I am thinking get to bed, get up tomorrow, do cones. And I'm looking at Jay in this green room, and I don't keep up with all white folks business, you know?

A (5:29)

Well, guess what? I do. I only keep up on white folks business.

B (5:37)

But I do remember that you all had friction.

A (5:41)

Water under the bridge.

B (5:42)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, Jay is. Your friends are laughing.

A (5:49)

Water under the bridge.

B (5:51)

But I thought about it, and I'm like, wow, I hope Conan doesn't hate me, you know, because.

A (5:56)

What?

B (5:57)

No, no, because I, you know, Jay is like a big brother to me.

A (6:00)

Sure. Yeah.

B (6:01)

And we fought, too. Me and Jay, we're like Cain and Abel. We're brothers, but we have.

A (6:07)

Which one gets killed?

B (6:08)

He does. He does. I'm the fighter.

A (6:14)

Jesus Christ. No, no, no. I. Honestly, I'm. I'm just. I. This is going to sound so corny, but I am so happy with my life, and I get to do the things I want to do, and I honestly don't think about any of that stuff. I really don't.

B (6:33)

And white folks business, I honestly don't know what happened. But I do remember there was something. I was breastfeeding back in that era. You know, we just had a baby.

A (6:44)

You were a medical miracle. How did you. You're actually lactating. Right? You know, listen, I so want you just to be a happy person in the world, because I was telling Adam today that I don't know when I've had a guest. I mean, I filled my book with things I want to talk to you about. I read your book, your memoir. It's fantastic. Thank you. It's great. I mean, really great. And you have such a unique story, and you're so honest in this book about everything, about how you were feeling. And one of the first things you address in the book is you say, I want to write this book because I want to clear up some misconceptions. And one of the misconceptions about you is there are people out there that think you're a recluse. And you are not a recluse. You know, you might be hanging out with the wrong people, but you're not a recluse. And I'm talking about Howie Mandela. No, but. No, but Arsenio, you wrote this book to sort of tell your story, and it's a crazy story. It's a fantastic story.

B (7:57)

Yeah, there are a lot of things that I'm sure people will read and say that couldn't have happened. I mean, he was a magician. Johnny was a magician, so he thought I'LL do. He was outside a park after playing basketball with Mark Jackson, and he saw Muhammad Ali doing a magic trick with a Kleenex. You know, sometimes it sounds amazing and hard to believe, but I think I've just been blessed with an incredible life, which is why I was so cool going home after quitting the show and chilling.

A (8:28)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, first of all, you and I both know what these shows take. And then you were dealing with a lot of stuff that I never had to deal with. So I take my experience, which I thought was really difficult, and I love the job as you did, but it's difficult. It's draining. It takes everything you've got. And then I think, okay, but Arsenio is dealing with a whole other layer that I didn't have to deal with. I mean, you've got. When you're doing your show, and we'll get there, because I want to do a little of your origin story, but I want to get to, you know, it's 1989, and people forget that your show starts in 1989. And even though that sounds like it's the modern era, there's still stuff happening in 1989 where you're getting network notes like, don't say brother so much on the show. Don't go into the audience too much because there are a lot of black folks in the audience. You're getting notes like that. I think about that calculation, you dealing with that kind of stuff on top of everything that I know about. And I think that's an achievement to be present for all that and keep your spirits up and do a great job.

B (9:47)

Yeah. And, you know, my desire was to do the show and put people in the mix that weren't in the mix. You know, when I was a kid, I'd watch the Tonight show or, I don't know, Dinah Shore.

A (10:00)

You also watched a lot of daytime. You watched Merv Griffin.

B (10:03)

Oh, yeah.

A (10:05)

And it's. It really. And Mike Douglas. And you know what? There's a lot of young people who don't know those people. Those were guys that had talk shows in the daytime, and they had a certain kind of energy that I think you brought consciously or unconsciously into late night, which is you didn't have a desk. Cause those guys didn't have a desk. You.

B (10:30)

And by the way, when I took over, Joan Rivers had a desk. And my producer, you know, my dream weaver, she made me get rid of it because she came to see me do standup one night, and she says, I don't Want anything in front of you in case you want to stand up, in case you want to move forward. And it will create who we are.

A (10:49)

Yes. You know, you. I mean, this is Marla Kell Brown. Is that right? Who You're a really good friend and your producer. The two of you had this mission in mind, which is. And I just want to take people back for a second. Cause we're talking about it. We might as well talk about it now, and then we can get to the other stuff. I remember when your show came on. People can forget how revolutionary that was. You came out and you were doing a show that was completely different from anything that was going on.

B (11:18)

And in all fairness, you talked about daytime energy. There was a lot of things that I picked up, things on my hard drive from my childhood. There were times when I remember a specific day looking and seeing this new rapper that I knew about, but the public didn't quite know about yet. And his name was Fat Joe, and he was with a friend who was on the show that day. And I remember thinking, Ed Sullivan used to have Diana Ross stand up. So the mass public didn't know who he was. But my audience needs to know. And that is what I thought my job was. And I was like, you know, I didn't say it like, over there in section B. Yeah, yeah. You know, I didn't do it that way. But I said, yo, Fat Joe, stand up. Take a bow. And that was from my childhood, seeing Ed Sullivan say, Diana Ross, take a bow.

A (12:06)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

B (12:08)

Horrible Sullivan.

A (12:08)

But, you know, I didn't know that was Sullivan.

B (12:11)

Yeah, I know. You thought.

A (12:13)

I thought it was the guy.

B (12:14)

He's doing Merv again.

A (12:15)

Yeah. Or someone struggling with a neuromuscular disease. That's what I was getting.

B (12:20)

And I thought a problem with.

A (12:21)

Yeah. But I think the thing that I always really admired about you and to this day, is that at a time when everyone thought these late night talk shows are this certain kind of thing, you came along and you said, I'm gonna do what's right for me, what feels comfortable for me. Now that sounds like an easy thing to do. I remember one of the first times I met Johnny Carson and he gave me advice. He said, just be yourself. Until he saw who I was. Then he said, have you got anyone else you can be? But. But it sounds like an easy thing to do. It's one of the hardest things to do in the world. And you came along and you and your producer Marla, and you're just like, this is what the Set's gonna look like there's gonna be no desk. We're not doing that. This is going to be a party. This is going to be everything that I've wanted my whole life. Because in your book, you detail that even as a kid, you're pretending to be Johnny Carson. You're pretending to be a talk show host. You, Oprah would say you manifested this, and you really did. I mean, it's pretty incredible.

B (13:33)

I do a talk show in my basement, the ghetto of Cleveland. I'm also a magician. That is a recipe for getting your ass whipped every day. Every day you walk to school, you gonna get your ass beat. You know, give me a quarter. But do a trick with it first, motherfucker. You know, that was my life.

A (13:54)

They hit you and three pigeons fall out of your sleeve.

B (13:58)

Absolutely.

A (13:59)

That's so fantastic. No, you were. I mean, we're gonna just jump around because that's the kind of interview this is gonna be. We're gonna jump all over the place.

B (14:07)

But this is gonna be a jazz interview.

A (14:09)

Jazz interview. And everyone loves jazz.

B (14:14)

That's a good point.

A (14:14)

You go in. You go in with the things that you wanted to do, and you did them right away. You were completely yourself. And it was a phenomenon. I mean, the show was. It's all anybody was talking about. It was a big hit. And one of the things that people forget because TV is so different now. It's not even called TV anymore. It's just there's entertainment everywhere on all these different platforms. Back then, it was next to impossible to crack into one of these shows you do and you say, I'm gonna do this completely my way. And I remember the guests. I mean, these were not people you ever saw on television.

B (14:54)

And these are the people you saw that they weren't making me turn down. Like, I was having Ice Cube stop by the studio and say, yo, dawg, look at this and tell me what you think you know. And it would be him performing with nwa. And I'm like, I can't even say the title. You know, Niggas with attitude. And I went to Paramount, I tried to get them on. So there were people you didn't see because early on, because you couldn't get him on. Well, yeah, Paramount wouldn't let me put NWA on. Eventually, I brought Ice Cube on and Dre on and Eazy on separately after they broke up. But in the beginning, Paramount would just say no. After the show took off, I would push harder and say, like, I went through the same type of meeting when Ice T came up with Cop Killer. And I'm like, I want to do Ice T. And I want to let him explain this whole thing he's going through right now with this album. And they said, no. And I said, no, we're doing this one. I stopped letting them say no because I had a little bit of power. And I'm like, I got to do this. Otherwise, I. Merv.

A (16:09)

Yeah, you got to get the power first, you know, and you got the power, and you start to exercise it. And I'm just going to. Because this blows my mind. I was. Again, I love the book, but your guests. Muhammad Ali, Jesse Jackson, Miles Davis, Michael Jackson, biggest star. One of the biggest stars in the history of the world. You got Mike Tyson, Whitney Houston, Maya Angelou. And she was so nervous. Is this true that, you guys. She wanted backstage. She needed a little something to calm her down. Yeah.

B (16:41)

And I think we were at this point where our green room wasn't supposed to have liquor in it, because something had gone wrong. And she knocked on my door, and she says, hi, baby. Can we talk for a minute? And she comes inside, and I offer her a drink of what I have. Cause somebody, a talent coordinator had told me, you know, Maya wants just a little toddy to relax her. And it became a tradition whenever she came on the show. You know, me and Maya went in and had a little sip together. It relaxed us.

A (17:14)

What do you have? I'm just curious.

B (17:15)

It was a brown liquor. I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was probably that stuff in the purple B. You know, it's that brown stuff that goes. I think that's what I had. Crown Royal. Yeah, Crown Royal.

A (17:27)

Yeah, I did that. But it was cough syrup. What? And it wasn't Maya Angelou. It was Al Roker. Oh, wow.

B (17:38)

That's a party.

A (17:39)

I was working a different thing, you know, but you had these people on. You had this music on. And there was. I mean, I remember nights where it was an event. I remembered I could be making this up. But I seem to remember a night where, like, Eddie Murphy's there, and, you know, Eddie's the biggest thing on the planet. You know, I think Michael Jackson comes by and you're looking at, oh, you

B (18:04)

know, back in the day, I used to host the MTV Awards.

A (18:07)

Yeah.

B (18:08)

And, like, I think I did it for three years. But one of those years, Michael couldn't come to the MTV Awards. So we made a deal that the award he was getting would be given to him on my show the next week. And there was Also an award in the film world for Eddie. So I'm like, let's see if Eddie will come. And Michael and Eddie can kiss each other's ass, you know? No, Michael and Eddie, okay.

A (18:37)

I tune in for that.

B (18:40)

Michael and Eddie can each give the other an award. And that's how we did it. Michael said, eddie is the best comedian in the history of.

A (18:49)

You know.

B (18:49)

And Michael gave him. And Eddie is like, yeah. Oh, Michael, so this one's for you. And Eddie gave him. And it was the best segment ever. Yeah. So especially when me and Eddie are out there. And Michael walks out. We knew he was walking out, and it fucked us up.

A (19:09)

You know, it's like that was an event people talk about. Everyone's trying to make events happen on tv, and I think they're fewer and farther between. They don't happen that often. But you come along at this moment. This is just unprecedented. This is unprecedented. And you brought all of these entertainers that meant so much to you, and you. You bring them. You're so true to what you want to do that you start getting it from both sides. You get white people saying, or white. It's a network note. I think sometimes it's not a network note. I shouldn't say that. The show is too black and you're too black. Okay. Was that a thing that was actually said to you?

B (19:52)

Oh, yeah. We talk in meetings. Nobody could text back then because it hadn't been invented. And they would not only tell me, you're too black, but they would give me examples of what I shouldn't do. And, you know, you mentioned one earlier. Stop calling everybody brother. But that was an interesting meeting because I went over to an executive's office, and they said I was listening to the show because executives would have monitors on watching everything. And the executive said to me, stop calling your guest brother. And I said, what do you mean? I said, tonight, I'm listening to the show, and all I hear is, brother this and brother that. And that sounds like it's not inclusive to your larger audience. And what they didn't do was pay attention to who I was talking to. Cause I was calling Mark Wahlberg brother. He was with Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch.

A (20:45)

Yeah.

B (20:46)

And so what they learned with me is, yeah, there are a lot of things I'm doing that maybe need to be ironed out or changed, but pay attention. Cause I call everybody brother. And some of this stuff, if Mr.

A (20:57)

Rogers was on, you'd say, hey, brother.

B (20:59)

Yeah, that's.

A (20:59)

Yeah, yeah.

B (21:00)

Me and Mr. Rogers had identical jackets that we picked out for the show one night. And I'm like, brother Rogers.

A (21:09)

Yeah. But, you know, that's. You get that. Okay. Which people would probably.

B (21:15)

And one more thing. And you know, the hardest part? The hardest part is when black people come at you. They come at you with bars and spit. Like, when Ice Cube was mad, he found something that rhymed with Arsenio, you know, and released a track. You know, people ask me, yeah, you know, when you. Now I'm thinking, see, when you make Streisand mad, it's not as much a problem.

A (21:41)

Yeah. You know?

B (21:41)

Yeah. Yeah. But Ice Cube, that motherfucker was what

A (21:46)

I wanted to talk about.

B (21:47)

You know, people ask me if I like the bicentennial. I hate it. And I hate Arsenio. It was some shit like that.

A (21:59)

It wasn't his best rhyme. But, you know, that's the point I'm making, is that you. Yes, you're getting these notes from white people saying it's too black. But you're also at the same time getting flack from the black community saying it's not black enough. And you get some flack from, you know, Spike Lee, and you get some flack from some other people who say, this hasn't gone far enough.

B (22:27)

And why is Ed Asner on before me? Excuse me? Why? This is the black show, Right?

A (22:32)

Yeah.

B (22:33)

I thought things would be different. Why the fuck is Ed Asner coming out before me on the black show, too?

A (22:38)

Yeah.

B (22:38)

You know, and it was rough. Cause I have a flaw in my personality. I love to please. I love to make people happy.

A (22:45)

I know what you're talking about.

B (22:46)

I want them to go home. You know, I want Mike Epps to go home happy. You know, and sometimes you just can't make everyone happy. But I tried for six years.

A (22:55)

Well, this is the thing, is that you're in this bind because you can't make everybody happy. You just can't all the time.

B (23:04)

Spike Lee was angry because I simply couldn't give him the day he wanted. You know, sometimes when you're rolling out a movie, if the movie opens tonight, back in the day, movie opens tonight in the theaters, Spike wants to be that Friday night guest. Also knowing, you know, and this is just an example, also knowing, say, for instance, that more people might watch on a Friday because they don't have to work on a Saturday. And sometimes numbers on a Friday are better than Monday. But he had a specific day he want, and we were already booked with our first guest out, and he got angry at me. And, you know, and that stuff happens every day back then. You build up a thick callus on your heart because you get attacked every day by somebody for something. Okay.

A (23:46)

That I don't believe because you strike me. I think there are some similarities between us. I think that I try to pretend things don't hurt me, but they do. And I know you, and everyone knows you to be a really decent, good person. I think that it did really bother you, probably, to get. It hurts because you're so trying to make everyone happy with this show, and then suddenly you're thinking, okay, I accept that there's a white executive who doesn't understand, but I would. Spike Lee, white executive.

B (24:23)

You say, I want to do two numbers with Bobby Brown, and they'll say, the model. And you realize your struggle is

A (24:34)

ready

B (24:34)

to go straight uphill. It's gonna be hard, you know.

A (24:44)

Support for today's episode comes from Square, the system powering, like, half the places you go. Hello? Yeah. If you've ever tapped to pay and thought, whoa, that was fast, it was probably Square. Whether you're selling lattes, cutting hair, detailing cars, or running a design studio, Square helps you run your business without running yourself into the ground. Square is the platform behind the scenes of so many businesses you already love. It gets them connected to a system to make payments, manage inventory, run payroll, send invoices, track it all in one place. This isn't just a point of sale. Square includes hardware that works in person and on the go. I mean, it's incredible. I see square all the time when I go out there. Me, too. And I'm out there a lot. Yeah, you are out there. You're out there on the streets. Yeah, with the streets, with the people. And I am doing business. I am bartering, I'm exchanging, and all the time, they use Square. And you know what? It's fast and it's easy. And I wish it existed in an earlier time. Yeah, would have really helped us. If you're starting a business or running one that deserves better tools, Square helps you sell, manage, and grow without slowing down. Right now, you can get up to $200 off square hardware@square.com. go Conan. That's sq u a r e.com g o Conan. Run your business smarter with Square. Get started today. I'm told it's important to treat your employees well. I'm not sure I'm ready to do that yet, but word has it it's a good thing to do. Justworks helps small businesses support their teams with everything from HR to offering better Benefits. Whether you're higher rank, automating payroll, expanding globally, or tackling compliance, these are things I do every day. You're. You're really. You're in charge of all that stuff. Wow, that was not helpful. It really wasn't. But whatever. Whatever you're doing just works, offers 24,7 support from an actual human. Hello, actual human. No. Bleep, bleep, blurp, blur. That means you can hire and manage talent without juggling multiple platforms or hidden fees. And get your team access to premium benefits like health insurance, 401k and commuter perks. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, baby. And you are really adding nothing. And with transparent pricing, you always know what you're paying for. Go to justworks.com to learn more. They do your human resources right, so you can do right by your people. Just works for your people. You know, I value hard work. I just do have an incredible work ethic.

B (27:07)

Yeah.

A (27:08)

And that brings me to Nutrigrain. Nutrigrain is a hard working snack. Okay. I was wondering where you were. Fits into real well. Of course, the minute David knew. The minute I said hard work, he knew Nutrigrain was coming. It's a hardworking snack that fits into real life and it helps hardworking people get it done. Let me explain. It's made with 10 grams of whole grains, 10 vitamins and minerals and no high fructose corn syrup. Yeah, Nutrigrain's portable and I demand that of a snack. Yeah, I demand that it be portable. Sometimes a great snack will come out. And it's over £600. I can't lug that around. £600. Great for a grab and go option. Busy. I'm going to grab my Nutrigrain bar. Chomp, chomp. And I'm doing my best work ever. Yeah, you can choose between strawberry flavored Nutrigrain for a delicious classic or new Nutrigrain Crunchy for something new. You didn't see that coming, did you? Do you guys think you're hardworking enough to merit these new Nutrigrain bars? Of course. Obviously, I don't know. I don't know if there's more hardworking assistants. Okay, tell me what you do and I will assess if you're hardworking enough. You know what? You look really nice today. I massaged your ego, which is important because you go up in front of an audience. So you don't mean it?

B (28:21)

No. Horrible.

A (28:23)

I look terrible. Yeah. Okay, well, you know what? That does take a lot of energy. To lie to a man with an intelligent, incredibly fragile ego. Yes. And you've been doing that for years. For years. That's a ton of work. I think you might merit a new Tigray barber. Let's see about David Hopping. David. What do you do?

B (28:41)

David?

A (28:41)

I want to state the obvious. You're here right now, which means that this recording was in your calendar. There you go. You do my calendar. So you think you are hardworking because you clicked into a computer and typed you know what? And then hit save. I'm proud of both of you. You're welcome. You're both hard workers. Yeah. Find nutritious and always delicious Nutri Grain bars at your favorite store or online retailer today. And look for new Nutrigrain Crunchy bars in stores near you. Going back to your origin story, your dad was a preacher and very charismatic, performing preacher. And you're looking up, admiring this guy. And you talk in your book about how it meant the world to you to try and please him, and that you're still trying to do that to this day. You go through. And I know what you're talking about, because my parents are very loving. I wanted attention from them. I wanted to make them laugh. And that is kind of the chemistry behind everything you do. And here I am all these years later, and they're gone. But I do think there's still part of me that's trying to win them over. And so there's so many things in your book where I go like, oh, my God, I understand. My dad's a microbiologist. He's not a preacher, but it's the same thing.

B (30:09)

Did he want you in the family business?

A (30:11)

I kind of think he wanted all of us to get into one of us to be a doctor. And then he quickly saw these idiots. I don't want them operating on me. So he was happy that I got into comedy.

B (30:24)

But, I mean, my dad wanted me to be a preacher so bad, Conan, that he would bring me holding my hand into the pulpit on a Sunday morning and sit me down next to his guest pastor or assistant pastor. And so my life was watching the congregation and watching my dad from the back. As a matter of fact, in Coming to America, when I told John Landis about my background. John Landis, the director of Coming to America, he created these shots when the preacher's on stage at the Black Awareness Pageant. He created these shots that were really me describing to him my experience watching people. Yes, Lord, that's what I saw. I saw that lady. I saw my dad from the back, you know.

A (31:05)

Well, you know, I was. Again, we're jumping around. But I love this. Cause I have it in my notes. Like, Coming to America with.

B (31:12)

This is how my standup is.

A (31:13)

Yeah, yeah, I know.

B (31:14)

It's just like Miles Davis with some kind of Fentanyl of a. Yeah. You know, it's like.

A (31:18)

But this I. Like, He leaves the stage and then he leans back in. I'm sorry, but no, but this is.

B (31:35)

This is.

A (31:36)

This is how it's going to be. Because this is the best way. But I have Coming to America like, 75 exclamation points. Because, yeah, Eddie's great in that film. You are so good in that movie. That is such a great performance. And I remember when you were the preacher, and I didn't know that your dad was a preacher. And then I read in your book that of course you could play that part, but I think you channeled your dad.

B (32:01)

My mother was a male barber, so I was able to channel that, too.

A (32:04)

Channel her in the barbershop, I mean. And I also didn't know that you made Coming to America while you're waiting to kind of hear about whether or not you're gonna get your own show. And there's this downtime. And that's when you and Eddie, who were friends at the time, and he brought you in, and suddenly you're making this movie together. That's some project before you start your big show to send you coming to

B (32:27)

America to do Coming to America. Down. We went and pitched it at Paramount, and they said, no, thank you. And we were like, give us some notes. What should we do? And they were like, we're not sure, but, you know, it's a fish out of water. We've seen this a billion times. And Coming to America at that time didn't have the barbershop, it didn't have the preacher. It didn't have Eddie as the old Jewish man. It was a guy named Ned Tannen, I believe, who was running Paramount, who eventually gave us notes. And he said, everybody wants to see Eddie do characters again. Everybody misses snl.

A (32:59)

Yeah.

B (33:00)

How about if the people you meet in America are played by Eddie? And I was sitting there saying, could I get y' all a drink? And. And it's Eddie that said, hey, I saw Arsenio Du stand up on this HBO thing. And he does this thing about Jesse Jackson. I know he can do a great preacher, and we can come up with some barbers. And Eddie came up with the specific characters. And I just sat there shaking. Cause I'm like, I gotta do characters with Eddie Murphy. That's like saying, you know, check Jordan, you know, lock that motherfucker down. You know,

A (33:45)

whoa.

B (33:46)

So I was a nervous wreck, sure. Going into commissioners.

A (33:50)

But you know what? You're great. You're great in it. It really holds up. And this I need to explain to people. Cause I don't know if people understand the trajectory. Cause it's really fascinating. There's a whole part of your book I think people should read because it's really lovely about you as a kid. You take up magic. We also have something else in common. I was a different kid, as you can imagine, and you were a different kid. We both had names no one had ever heard before.

B (34:19)

Yes, yes.

A (34:20)

So you're Arsenio, I'm Conan. I don't know if you have the same thing, but my dad didn't even know about Conan the Barbarian. That wasn't a big thing when I was growing up. It wasn't like a known thing yet. So people used to get really hung up on my name. And I'm a strange kid with like a giant pompadour. And they're like, what is this Conan guy? And I swear to God, sometimes if they give you a name like that, it makes you become something interesting. It's a weird theory, but you're a one name celebrity. Even when you're a kid, you're Arsenio. Yeah. And people must have thought, what the hell is an Arsenio?

B (34:54)

Yes, yes. Because there are no Arsenios anywhere.

A (35:00)

You know, There never has been an Arsenio. We've done a national manhunt for an Arsenio.

B (35:05)

I did something like that like a few years ago. And there are like 18 of them now worldwide, and a lot of them were born around when the talk show was on. But back in the day, you in Cleveland and you at the basketball court in the ghetto of Cleveland, and people are picking up and it's like, I got Leroy. Let me have no neck. Tyrone, you with us? Arsenio.

A (35:32)

And you're there in a magician's hat. Yeah, yeah. Arsenio's got. In a magician's hat.

B (35:38)

Yes.

A (35:39)

And you're like, like, look what I can do.

B (35:41)

I'm like this motherfucker with a Kate Duncan on paper, you know, and you.

A (35:47)

And, and people need to know. You were, you were really serious about. You were really serious about the magic. And you took the magic pretty far. You were good. And you were getting up on stage

B (35:58)

and you were getting on TV shows.

A (35:59)

Getting on TV Shows as a magician. I mean, people don't know that you were a. The real deal. They flew me to.

B (36:06)

They flew me to New York, the first time I ever left Cleveland. They flew me to New York to do a PBS show, and I did my vanishing candelabra, which was something I'd never done on television.

A (36:20)

So you're that guy. And then at one point, someone sees you do your act, and you, of course, funny is in your bones. You were being funny in between the tricks you were doing or the illusions you were doing. And someone said, more of that. The comedy. You should be doing the comedy.

B (36:38)

It kind of hurt my feelings, though. Cause back then, my soul is. You know, I'd had dinner with Harry Blackstone Jr. Yeah, you know, my soul was that of a magician. And when this guy, Hank Morehouse in Ypsilanti, Michigan, says to me, you should get rid of the magic. And do you know what a standup comic is? You should be a standup comic. Cause I would take tricks. Like, I had a trick where you tie two handkerchiefs together. We call them silks, and I put the handkerchiefs in your shirt, and then I take another silk. Which, by the way, this became what Ali was doing in front of the playground when you saw him.

A (37:18)

Yeah. You saw him. Yeah.

B (37:19)

So I do this. This silk disappears, and it appears between the two that are put down here in your shirt. But what I would do is I would do the trick twice. The first time, I'd get a lady from the audience. I put the two silks in her shirt, and when I first pull them out, her bra comes out in between the two silks. And I'm 10.

A (37:43)

Yeah, you're 10.

B (37:46)

You know, tell me.

A (37:47)

Get it straight. You were canceled at 10. Wow, that's hard to do.

B (37:51)

And now you can't even. You can't even touch a lady's.

A (37:54)

Oh, no.

B (37:55)

You know, so this guy was saying, you're making adults laugh. And I remember. And then I do the trick again, and I make it happen correctly. The silk appears in the middle. And I remember Tony Lipford, a little girl who lived in my building. When I went to New York to do this and went to Colon, Michigan, to do the convention, she would let me use this training bra. And it was important. Cause my mother's bra and all my aunt's bras, they were like parachutes. They were huge, you know. You know, I had. You know, my Aunt Mabel, she never had a brush. Bank account. My amazing. She used to have $400 and a Kleenex.

A (38:40)

At church, you pull the bra, $30,000 in quarters go flying.

B (38:46)

And two people died from suffocation. But Tony Lipford loaned me a little training bra. Cuz we were the same age. And it was one of those bras that almost has no cup Y, you know, and that, that was easy to use and make that trick work.

A (39:01)

So someone sees you, you start doing standup. And this is when your life takes a major change. Cause you're doing stand up, you're getting really good.

B (39:10)

By the way, in Cleveland, while I'm watching TV one night, my grandmother's in Cleveland at the house I'm living in. I'm in Kent at Kent State. I'm watching TV and I see a street. You know how they interrupt the news? I see a street and it's on fire. And these houses are burning. And one of them looks like a house at the corner of my grandmother's street. And I realize the whole neighborhood's going up. That's my grandmother's house. I jump in a car and I drive from Kent State to Cleveland. My house burns down that night and that's where all the magic equipment was. So I was forced to get funny and get more bras.

A (39:47)

Yeah, but it's like divine intervention again. It's like, okay, I'm gonna be a standup. And you start to get to the point where you could get potentially a booking on the show. Tonight's show with Johnny Carson. But their booker's like, yeah, you're not a Johnny guy. You're not a Johnny guy. Which you know, is now sounds ridiculous and insane, but I get it.

B (40:15)

The show had a distinct personality. You know, you have a stationality. I wasn't surprised when I saw Deon Cole on your show. You have a stationality that's very specific to your brand of humor and your demographic and everything. And for me, I got that Bobby Kelton and Argus Hamilton, those were Johnny guys.

A (40:34)

Those are the gatekeepers. The Tonight Show.

B (40:36)

Yeah. And Johnny liked them. Tom Driessen had done 4,000 Tonight show appearances. And I waited for Joan to go on one Monday. And I knew I was probably more a Joan guy. And I got on the first time with Joan and then got to sit with Johnny when I come to America.

A (40:54)

Coming to America. So to instruct everyone who doesn't know, this interesting thing happens. Joan Rivers is a frequent guest on Johnny Carson's Tonight Show. She gets offered her own show. She does it causes a major feud with Carson. Cause he does not like that she's on Fox. She does a show in it implodes. It doesn't work. It comes apart. But you had gone on that show as a standup. As a standup, you had been successful on that show. And then when Joan leaves, they need someone to kind of. This thing's still on.

B (41:24)

They got 11 weeks with just a set, and Joan leaves. She's not coming back, I think Edgar, her husband, killed himself.

A (41:31)

He did, yeah.

B (41:33)

So that ship had sailed, and they went through a lot of guys letting them have the show for one night, from Wally Cox to Malcolm Jamal Warner to Suzanne Somers. Because I remember Suzanne Somers did very good. And in the end, they were choosing between me and Suzanne Somers.

A (41:51)

Wow, that's so. So you come on, and then they more or less say, hey, Arsenio, you're really good at this. Why don't you just. This show is ending, but why don't you take over till it ends? Now, here's the thing. You don't know. That show ends, and there's kind of a feeling like, wow, that Arsenio guy did really well. He's gonna come back. Okay. And here's the thing. You don't know. There's a replacement show after Joan's show.

B (42:15)

Wilton North.

A (42:16)

The Wilton North.

B (42:17)

I do know this now.

A (42:18)

Okay, so the Wilton North Report gets announced. This guy is gonna put on a show. There's no host for it yet, but they get some writers before they even have the host, which is kind of unheard of. And I get this call, and my writing partner and I go in and we get offered jobs to write. We need work. We haven't worked in a bit. So we say, sure, we'll do it. We don't know what this is. Who are the hosts? They say, we don't know yet. We're gonna find them. And so one of the first meetings we had, you were still, I think, finishing up your show. And we were just having an early introductory meeting. I leave and I heard there's. And I goes, is there anything to eat around here? And they go, yeah, there's a snack room in there. I go into the snack room, and I see you, and you were at the refrigerator getting something. And I said, oh, I knew who you were. I'm like, that's the guy who's been,

B (43:04)

you know, you weren't holding down the fort.

A (43:06)

You were holding down the fort. And I was like, oh, hey. And you were so nice to me. You were like, oh, hey. You were very gracious, and you were

B (43:12)

like, I am so glad this story goes like that.

A (43:16)

No, no.

B (43:17)

Scuse me. White me. Well.

A (43:20)

Well, you did call me white meat. But you were very nice about it. You were like, you are really white meat. And I'm like, well, yeah. And then, no, but I remembered you being really nice. And I went back to the room and I went, oh, hi.

B (43:35)

Hi.

A (43:35)

Cause I was, you know, super young, and there's a guy who's been on TV for a couple of weeks. And I knew I recognized you, and that's like a big deal. So I was like, oh, I just saw the. You know, the guy. Is it Arsanio? You were just new. So. So we work on that show. We're way behind the scenes. It implodes.

B (43:53)

It doesn't work. And they hired two DJs from Northwest. Right?

A (43:57)

San Diego.

B (43:57)

San Diego.

A (43:58)

There were two DJs from San Diego. And they hired them. And it wasn't their fault. It was just a weird. You gotta start with the person. You gotta start with the person for a talk show.

B (44:10)

You all know. Cause you work for Conan. But that guy is the engine. You can take a body of a car. We've seen this done. I saw Jay Leno.

A (44:21)

Don't apologize. You know, that's your problem. That's not my problem.

B (44:28)

I know this guy who's a mechanic, and he put a helicopter engine in a truck. Sure.

A (44:35)

Yeah.

B (44:35)

And it ran different than a Chevy.

A (44:37)

Yeah, yeah.

B (44:38)

The motor. We're the motor.

A (44:40)

So this mechanic, he was like. He was like, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna take it. Helicopter engine. Put it in a Chevy. Chevy Chevette. Why are you doing that? I don't know. It just seems like it's gonna cost a lot of money and waste a lot of time. So I thought maybe I'd do it. But anyway, whatever this guy's name is, he's having fun. That's the important thing.

B (45:03)

This is what I was afraid of. This is whatever. Oh, my.

A (45:07)

But so this could be my favorite episode ever. Seriously. And I have this man to thank. But, you know, so I met you. Then they decide, okay, this Arsenio kid has something. And Paramount, you get the syndication deal and your show starts. And here's the thing people have to remember. Cause I remember this very well. Your show started, I think, at the very beginning of 1989, like early January.

B (45:40)

Yeah. I wanted to get away from the September cluster.

A (45:43)

That's when they make cluster. That's when they make everyone. That's when I had to go, September 13th. It's when a lot of shows start. You show up. It's like second week of 1989. And it is a smash immediately. And here's the thing that's really interesting. You talk in your book about. Your ratings were huge. I think you were second to Johnny that first week. But what you had is you had 35 and younger. Your demo was through the roof. And what's interesting is that was good news for you then. But what you couldn't possibly know is today, to have a demo like that, that means you're on the air for the rest of your life. The demo is more important than how many people are watching you. And I think you existed at a time for advertising. For advertising. Because, you know, now, I mean, for a chunk of my career, it's the demo that saved me. It wasn't that everyone in America wanted to see me. It's the young people who buy things wanted to see me. And that's what made a difference and saved me. I think that you were in a much more difficult time where you had a great demo, and then you're also expected to get everyone in the country watching you, which is complicated. Do you know what I mean? I mean, first of all, you were. I just think that that was a challenge. You had that impossible. No show can pull off today. No show can do that. Yeah.

B (47:09)

You know, even. Even when you deal with the world of comedy. I had an audience that was loving when I bring on a new guy like Chris Tucker.

A (47:17)

Yep.

B (47:18)

But if you like Chris Tucker, you probably don't like Argus Hamilton. You know, it's a different thing.

A (47:26)

Yeah.

B (47:27)

And for me to be a different show every night is very complicated. It was tough to balance it. And they were telling me, especially around the time when Johnny was about to leave, they were telling me, if you do the right show, you can inherit the king's kingdom.

A (47:45)

Right.

B (47:45)

They'll come here when Johnny leaves, because we don't even know what they're gonna do and who they're gonna replace him with. That was all a mystery. So they were really pressing me at that time. Cause, like, I would get a call from Michael Bivins of New Edition, and Michael Bivens would say, I just signed four guys out of Philly called Boyz II Men, and I'm not finished with the album yet. But I would love to tell them that when we finish, they're coming on your show and it'll inspire them. And everything I said, even better than that, Mike, bring them next week. And I've always wanted to put the Temptations on because I used to tour with them, and they were my Heroes. I want to put Boys to Men in the Temptations altogether. Like, I want to have 40 niggas doing choreography, you know, and so let's have the Temptations and Boys to Men. And it's a beautiful line of men performing the old, the new.

A (48:37)

Yeah.

B (48:37)

Boys to Men's idol, my idols, and. And stuff like that. Paramount was like, you're not gonna get Johnny's audience doing this.

A (48:44)

Right.

B (48:45)

You know, and. And so they wanted me to change my Persona. I remember one time them saying, could you get rid of the earrings? You know, but that happened. And by the way, that's not a black thee. I've seen producers tell Howie Mandel to take off his earrings, you know, or make them smaller or whatever. That's just what they think the culture in America wants to see. And I would have, like, a nice jacket, but my jeans would be ripped, you know, and they were like, there's no reason to have your jeans ripped. You know, one time I carved Adidas stripes in the side of my head. Cause that was happening then. Not for y', all, but,

A (49:27)

you know. Yeah, yeah. David, what did you have carved into the side of your head? Yeah, yeah. The lyrics from Frozen. Yeah, just like, let it go, Let it go. Let it go around his head. That's hilarious. Really cool. He was in a different culture than

B (49:41)

the Midwest, but you can imagine when you do something like that, they're like, yo,

A (49:47)

but here's the thing. They forget that this idea that you have to get everybody into the tent is incorrect. If you want to be ruthlessly yourself, which you understood. And it's always been my credo. You got to do your thing. And if it doesn't work for you or if it doesn't feel authentic, it's your job not to do it. But you are doing television at a time when you're at the forefront of a lot of this, you know, I mean, there were a lot of people who. The first time they saw. I mean, a black person with their own show, and it's a late night show, which is. It's just unheard of. So you're the first person doing that. And the first is hard. You know what I mean? And you must have so many people that have come up to you over the years and have said, like, no, I grew up watching you. And I saw whatever my values, what I liked reflected back at me, and that's massive.

B (50:44)

Yeah, I get enough love in the streets that I never have to work again, man. And you forget. You forget. Somebody reminded me in Vegas. I go to see Bruno Mars. And the dude backstage says, I remember when you put him on. And I forget things like that. Bruno Mars was like an embryo, you know? I mean, they were.

A (51:07)

He was born on your show. Yeah.

B (51:09)

Yeah.

A (51:10)

You delivered him.

B (51:10)

Oh, he was. He was performing and slipped in some placenta when he did this one.

A (51:18)

But you know what? He made it look cool.

B (51:19)

Oh, yeah.

A (51:20)

He slid all the way across the stage.

B (51:22)

Yes, that Bruno. But, you know, his dad and the people around him were kind of secretive about his actual age. But I think he was, like, five, you know? And I still have people come up and say, dude. And the cool thing also is they're not always black. Sometimes it's a white dude who's a lawyer who says, we used to stay in and watch you. Then we'd go out on a Saturday night back east, you know.

A (51:47)

Well, here's the thing you knew. What I could tell is something authentic and new is happening here. And that has nothing to do with race. That has nothing to do with. This is just someone who knows what he wants to do and has a vision and is expressing himself and bringing all these different people in. And. And it wasn't just. I mean, you have people like Prince. You have all these incredible performers. Come on. Who weren't doing other shows. But Madonna is coming up. People that don't do these shows are showing up on Robert De Niro. That was his first talk show.

B (52:25)

Yeah. I knew I could get him, though. Cause I had a lot of black women on the staff. And I said, if he's gonna do a show, it's gonna be this show. I got a lot of sisters named Tookie on the staff, you know, and at the same time. At the same time, while Tookie.

A (52:50)

Hey, we gotta. Where's my Tookie? Where's Tukey?

B (52:55)

At the same time, while this is going on and I'm experiencing this life, I'm leaving the life, you know? And there are other people on the lot, like Ted Danson doing Cheers or Mary Hart doing Entertainment Tonight. I leave the lot one night, and the guards ask if they can search my car. Because some instruments from my show, stage 29, the posse, the band, Some instruments have been stolen. And we're supposed to search all the cars leaving the lot tonight. And, of course, that's when I become black, you know, that's when I get too black. Because you were the host.

A (53:31)

Yeah. Of the most successful show.

B (53:36)

And don't get me wrong, I'm sure Mike Douglas steals, you know, from time to time when he was here on Earth. But it was just. Sometimes you're going through stuff and that's the straw that broke the camel's back in a moment. And I did things that I should not have done, but. But I was like, you're not searching my motherfucking car. Did you search Ted Danson's car? You're not searching my fucking car. I'm a part owner in my show. And the instruments that were stolen, that's money out of my pocket, motherfucker. I don't steal my own shit. And they give me that shit free. If you want a E3 or a clavinet, you know how many bass guitars I have at home. And Fenders just. We're sending you another Jazz and a Precision in the mail, you know, so it was just absurd. And me and this guy that I was rolling with, we break the gate. You know, the gate that goes up and down, we broke that motherfucker off. Those are not very strong, those gates they need.

A (54:38)

You know, I think everyone's on your side on this gate breaking thing, but,

B (54:42)

yeah, so I got in a lot of trouble for the problems at the gate that night, but I was just.

A (54:49)

You got it. That's insane. Yeah.

B (54:52)

You know, but Lucy Soulhaney called me the next day and she's like, come over and let's talk about what happened at the gate last night. But I was pissed, and I didn't handle it right. And if a young comic asked me for advice, I'd say, you know, don't get into it with the guards and don't break the gate off if they say you can't leave, you know. But I was like, you gonna hold me? You're not. It's not gonna happen. You're not searching my car and you're not keeping me here.

A (55:15)

I thought it was amazing doing your show. And the LA riots start. And I lived in LA then, and it was. That was. I think I was working on the Simpsons when the LA riot. I was. I was working on the Simpsons. And we're on the second floor working on the Simpsons. And we can tell things are, as you know, the air.

B (55:37)

Where was the office?

A (55:38)

We were on the Fox lot.

B (55:40)

Cause you could look, you could go on the roof of some of those buildings and see smoke from some of those.

A (55:44)

That's what happened is we started to hear. We heard about the verdict. We hear that there's violence breaking out. And of course, whoever was running the show at the time was like, well, we gotta get this, you know, what does Marge say next? We don't know what Marge says next. And some of us are thinking, can we just go check the tv? Hold on. Does Homer speak here? I think it should be Marge's line. And then someone went out to get a cup of water or something and was standing on the balcony and saw just all this smoke. Yeah.

B (56:14)

And at some point, we're all watching TV and we see Reginald Denny dragged out of a concrete truck.

A (56:21)

He's dragged out of a truck and hit over the head.

B (56:24)

Cinder blocks.

A (56:24)

Cinder blocks. Yeah.

B (56:25)

Yeah.

A (56:26)

And it was. You know, So I jumped in my car at the Simpsons, and I drive back to my apartment. Cause the guy said, let's figure out that margin later. Everybody go home. And so it was a very strange, upsetting, obviously, time. And you were advised, well, you can't do your show. Yeah. And you said, I'm doing my show. And you had very strong reasons for why you thought it's important for me to do my show right now. Which were.

B (56:57)

But yet, by the way, as an ep, I understood where they were coming from. They were talking about insurance. They were talking about somebody getting hurt. You know, I got what they were saying, but I also got that this ain't the time to shut up and dribble. You know, this is a time for an entertainer to use his vehicle in some way. And I understood that at that point, I thought, maybe this is the night I book somebody like Farrakhan, or I gotta book somebody that can reach the brothers out in the street. Because I think we're about to tear up our own neighborhoods.

A (57:33)

Yeah.

B (57:33)

And obviously, everybody thought that would distract from what I'm trying to do and what's going on, and it would be bigger than the riots. And I said, oh, yeah, yeah, No, I get that. And so we got Tom Bradley, Sean Penn, popped by, Sinbad, everybody. And then I invited like 200 members of First AME, my church. So I put my church. They signed waivers, and everybody sat in the audience. And we did the show that night, which. A billion things are going through my mind because I also remember Tom Bradley, Sean Penn brought a guy with him, and Paramount sent a lawyer out to say, the guy with Sean Penn, we can't talk to him, so don't go over there. And to this day. Okay, okay. I had so much on my mind to this day, I wonder who that guy was. And it's also interesting because from Ice Cube to Minister Farrakhan, I look now at what you guys are going through and being told what to do, what not to do, who to book with. Colbert and who not to book. And Trump wasn't in my mix. But it's funny. Cause I never thought to publicly talk about me being censored or publicly talk about them not letting me have someone that I want to have, because politically that person is wrong or whatever. I also remember when I booked Bill Clinton, I grew up thinking that you always bring the other side. And I thought that was a law. But I guess it's changed or it's vacillated a little bit these days. But I remember putting an offer out to Mr. Bush, you know? Cause I wanted both of them.

A (59:08)

But he can't play saxophone.

B (59:09)

He can't play saxophone.

A (59:10)

I mean, tell me about another thing that's in history books. Bill Clinton with the Ray Bans playing saxophone.

B (59:16)

My Ray Bans and my tie.

A (59:17)

Yeah. On your show that hadn't happened. You know, I mean, all these things were happening that were resonating throughout the country. I mean, that's a moment that's gonna endure. And the thing I'm thinking about is your instinct about have the other side. I think you had this idea of, let's open up the house, invite everybody in and see what happens. And if you lead with goodwill. And that's the. Because you were always about goodwill. If we lead with goodwill and we get everyone together in a room, I don't have to agree with everybody. But this is gonna be interesting. And to me, that's a nice sentiment. And sometimes now people get so locked into being angry about everything that we're not inviting the other people in.

B (60:01)

Yeah. I remember having the first openly gay standup comic on a young lady named Leah DeLaria who went on to do Orange is a New Black.

A (60:10)

She's great. She's terrific.

B (60:11)

She walked out and she said, I'm

A (60:12)

a big dyke, you know?

B (60:14)

And I'm like, whoa. I know. Paramount will be over later after the show to talk to me.

A (60:20)

They're no longer worried about the gate.

B (60:21)

Yeah, yeah, forget the gate.

A (60:23)

What the hell was that?

B (60:26)

Yeah, it was so. It was tough. It was a tough time because they didn't want any of that. They wanted me to just cool out, dude, and wait for Johnny to leave.

A (60:36)

Yeah. On ebay, every find has a story. Like, if you're looking for a vintage band tee, the one you wore everywhere until you lost it. Womp, womp. Or your brother Neil burned it.

B (60:56)

Aw.

A (60:56)

Now you're on ebay. And there it is. The things you love have a way of finding their way back to you, especially on ebay, from rare collectibles and Vintage cars to designer fashion. It's all there. You can find it if it's out there, and it can be back in your loving arms. Shop eBay for millions of finds, each with a store. EBay. Things people love. Sometimes staying home just feels easier. Yeah. You know, I'm tired from a long day of podcasting. The muscles ache sore. Oh, from podcasting. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Mostly my jaw, but also, for some reason, legs and buttocks. So sometimes a simple. Yeah, I'll come by. It's perfect for bringing a pack of Miller Lite. And when things go from low key to legendary, everyone knows it's Miller time. I love saying that. You know, you've had some legendary times with your bros, right? Well, I've got a squad. I call them the squad. And I get together with whether it's. Whether Bob Zebnik or Rodman Flender, Greg Daniels. I get together with my bros and we grease up our bikes, we hit the highway, and then we, you know, when we're done and we put our bikes away in a responsible manner, we enjoy a Miller Lite. Legendary. Cheers to legendary moments with Miller Lite. Great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com kona to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some real light. Pretty much anywhere they sell beer. If they don't, they don't sell beer. You know what I'm saying? It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Now, one of the things that I didn't know is that you decide you do this for six years, which is a real stretch. These are hard shows, and you're doing it. As I said, you're carrying a heavier backpack, certainly than myself and other hosts

B (62:51)

or a different backpack. Because I also don't like to put myself in a position where, oh, it's tougher for me. Everybody has some burden to bear.

A (63:01)

That's fair. I'll give you that. That's fair. But reading your story and seeing what it is that. That you were dealing with, I have crazy respect, I'll put it that way.

B (63:13)

Thank you.

A (63:14)

Crazy respect for what you did and that you always kept it. Like I say, the emphasis on goodwill and let's try it, you know, that spirit of let's get boys to men and the temptations and see what happens. That's a beautiful thing. What I didn't know is that you start to burn out. You're like, I think I've gotta stop Doing this. I've gotta stop doing this. I need to put this down. And you go to Paramount and you write them a letter and you say, I'm going to leave. And they say, okay, well, don't say anything about it yet. And they sit on the letter and they tell you, you can't tell anybody. So you keep doing your job, but you have every intention of leaving. And then they announce that they're ending it, which is. I don't have another word. It's just a shitty thing to do.

B (64:02)

I don't think they realize how important truth is in the long run. You know, in that moment, it's like, ha, ha, we beat you. But they don't realize I'm a human being. I'm a person with a legacy. And I want to inspire people to know. Not just black kids, but to know dream and you can win. And I want my story to reflect the truth of what that journey was like and what that ending was like. I've seen two books. My son is involved with a bookstore in Leimert Park. And, you know, I raised him right. He could have done it in Beverly Hills, but he's doing it in Leimert park, doing a lot of business over there. And one day he shows me two books that are about me. And it's one of the times when I said, I gotta write a book. I just didn't know how to go about it because I realized I don't even know these books exist or who these authors are. We tried to search one of the authors, and it's not even a real name. It was written under an alias. And I'm like, she didn't even want me to know she was telling this stuff about me, you know? So I really wanted to leave a book on this earth that I wrote about me.

A (65:07)

And it's also. It's really important for people to know that you were like, this now needs to end. And I want to end it and go out on my note. And then.

B (65:17)

And I put the letter in the book.

A (65:18)

Oh, it's there.

B (65:20)

And it's. Remember when you used to fax things and it was on that kind of paper that, like a cocaine dollar bill rolls back up after. Remember that paper?

A (65:28)

Oh, do I know do.

B (65:32)

And it was that kind of that old, horrible paper. And it doesn't last. Well.

A (65:38)

And that creates a misconception that. Oh, because, you know, you very publicly disagreed with a lot of the things that Farrakhan was saying, and rightfully so. But you wanted to confront him about those things. And talk about it. And of course, that got everybody freaked out. And so there was this perception that Paramount was saying, because you talked to Farrakhan, your show has to go. When you had sent them a letter long before saying, I'm ending this show.

B (66:12)

Yeah. And they told me, they said, let's get together with a publicist. Let's decide the way to position this and how to send out. Back then we would send out a press release, you know. Now you tweet.

A (66:23)

Yeah.

B (66:24)

Or you do Snapchat, so they don't have it next month. You know, I didn't quit.

A (66:29)

What the fuck y' all talking about? Show me.

B (66:32)

Yeah.

A (66:32)

Show me where I quit.

B (66:34)

I want receipts. But they kind of fucked me over. It was like a relationship that.

A (66:43)

That's how these things tend to end. I have to tell you, these talk shows. Yeah. Yeah. They tend to end that way.

B (66:49)

You've kind of been through yours with the negative. Yeah.

A (66:51)

You go through this stuff, but. And then they have more power and

B (66:54)

more ink than us, so they're always good.

A (66:55)

But then you realize that, you know, I think, like you, I've always tried to take the attitude I was really lucky, just very lucky person that easily could not have come my way. And I think I'm a hard worker and I think I have some ability. But mostly it's a lot of luck. And people need to hear that. Yeah. And I.

B (67:16)

It's not just talent. I saw Prince get booed when he first hit. I think he was opening for the Rolling Stones. Nobody had more talent than Prince. But it's luck and timing that goes with that talent. I know a lot of talented people, funny people, great musicians that struggle.

A (67:35)

Yeah. And trust me, I've made it a life's mission to say you can maximize your chance of getting luck by working really hard and by being a pleasant person to work with. But this book also makes it clear that you were. You were working so hard, and you had all these different arcs before we got to know you. And, I mean, I didn't know anything about the magician stuff. It maybe wanted to cancel this book. You know what I love, too? That's in the book. The time that you're outside a comedy club and you don't know Eddie Murphy that long. You guys are just. And you're, like, hanging out by a parking meter outside the comedy club.

B (68:14)

Hadn't met him at all.

A (68:15)

Hadn't met him at all.

B (68:16)

Yeah.

A (68:16)

And Kenan Waynes.

B (68:19)

Kenan Wayans is going to introduce us.

A (68:22)

Yeah. And you're chatting with him and you confess to him that you were. Spent a lot of your career as a magician. And then he confesses to you that

B (68:31)

he was a ventriloquist. Yes. And here's another crazy part. I talk about this in the book There's a Night. And you'll relate to this. This is just for me and you right here. You ever ask the guest that question and they've decided that what their pre interview had in it or whatever their publicist told you, they don't want to talk about that? Yep, yep. So I say to my friend. Cause I know this is a great area.

A (69:00)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

B (69:01)

And I know that he, you know, at home, I know we've smoked a joint at some point and he's done, send your wences. Yeah, yeah, you know, I know. I've seen the shit.

A (69:11)

Yeah, sure he has, right?

B (69:12)

Yeah. And that shit is funny.

A (69:14)

And this guy could afford a dummy,

B (69:17)

but instead a little lipstick right here, you know? And so I say to him, and I know I can lay back because this is gonna be two minutes. And I say, so you were a ventriloquist? And that motherfucker says, no. Yes. But you were a magician. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And we go from there. And I couldn't believe he bagged me like that. But he didn't want to do that shit.

A (69:50)

Yeah, yeah.

B (69:51)

You know, he didn't want to talk about. But recently I've kind of been exonerated from the house of lies because he did a documentary recently.

A (70:02)

Yes, that's right. Yeah.

B (70:03)

And in the documentary, motherfucker decides to tell the truth, you know, but their

A (70:08)

law on tv, in that moment, he left you hanging.

B (70:12)

Oh, man. And you have no idea. I didn't feel exonerated until recently when he's on his little documentary and he's got a Richard Pryor and a Bill Cosby ventriloquist dummy. And he said, this is the wife of King. And he said, I don't know why this motherfucker put people to sleep like that.

A (70:34)

And he's doing this.

B (70:35)

And I'm like, yes, yes. I told you, motherfucker. He was a ventriloquist. Lying faster.

A (70:42)

You know, that's when you're yelling at your TV at three in the morning.

B (70:46)

Yes.

A (70:46)

They have to take you away. Oh, yeah, yeah.

B (70:49)

My woman puts me in another room. Let me go. Let me go.

A (70:56)

What's a better episode than this episode? No, this is fun.

B (70:59)

No, you've had some. You've had some fun stuff.

A (71:01)

Yeah, yeah. Guess what? What? I don't know. I don't know, this was. This is just insane. We gotta. I mean, we gotta do a part two sometime. We really do. Yes.

B (71:11)

How long have we been in here?

A (71:12)

Hour and five minutes. Hour and five minutes. This is much more than we do. It's usually like 40 minutes.

B (71:18)

Stand up would go like that. Yeah.

A (71:19)

But you know what? We gotta do a part two sometime. I just want to make sure. You gotta get this book, Arsenio A Memoir. Because it's beautiful, it's really funny, it's an incredible story.

B (71:32)

And even if they don't read. Get the book.

A (71:34)

Get the book. Cause you can if you've got a table that's uneven in your home. Yes. Yeah. Or the microwave, you want it to sit on something sturdy or.

B (71:45)

I hate to quote other comics, because sometimes that can be perceived as stealing. But I love Chris Rock's take on books. You know, it's like, hide your money. Cause that's the last place a nigger

A (71:57)

gonna look, you know?

B (72:00)

So get the. And put something in it to hide.

A (72:05)

It is. I was so excited today for you to come in. And I'll tell you this, too. I have so many friends, so many writers of mine, people I know who are standups. They've worked with you. They've bumped into you universally. Everybody says you are unfailingly nice person. You're a really good person, and that means the world to me.

B (72:28)

Except that guard at Paramount.

A (72:30)

Oh, come on. I think I'm on your side.

B (72:35)

I try to treat people the way God would want me to treat people. And I know that sounds corny, but also. No, it doesn't.

A (72:40)

It doesn't.

B (72:41)

Okay. You know, but that's where I'm from. That's who I am. And I try. I've fallen short in my life many times, but when I came up, nobody says good things about Cosby anymore. But I remember a time when you could pop by Cosby's dressing room in Atlantic City or in Vegas. And I've had Jerry Seinfeld agree with this. He would sit and talk to you for four hours, give you advice. We'd have conversations. Richard Pryor. I remember one time I opened for Chaka Khan at the Universal Amphitheater, and I was so proud to tell Richard I got a gig, you know, and we're at the Comedy Store. Richard's working on his special, and he says, I'd like to come to that. And I say, really? I can leave your tickets. And I leave him and his guy Rashawn, his body man, two tickets. And Richard comes early and Watches me. And then when Chaka comes on stage,

A (73:31)

once you get started,

B (73:34)

Richard gets up and comes in back. And I know he loved Chaka Khan on a couple levels, you know, not just music, but he's a Renaissance man. He's a Renaissance man and a Coxman. And he loved him some Chaka. But he came backstage to tell me, you did a great job.

A (73:54)

That was why.

B (73:55)

And that's the greatest moment of my life, that Richard took the time to come to the amphitheater and then got up and came backstage after the opening act left the stage. So I try to treat young comics and young entertainers that I meet the way the legends taught me, the way the legends treated me. I remember having Quincy Jones come to watch me at the Roxy. The next day, he calls me, has me come to the studio, and I sit with him while he masters something called off the Wall.

A (74:23)

Oh, wow.

B (74:24)

That we didn't even know. And he's going. He's like, listen to this. This is Sheila E. Hidden different soda bottles with different levels of water in it, and it makes different noise. And it's dink, dink, dink, dink, dink, dink, ding. And he just plays that part. And I think it was the beginning to don't stop till you get but sitting there and he said, yeah, man, Michael coming back, man. He come back home, you know, and then he played a song. He says, you're from Ohio, right? This is the first time I've ever met him. You're from Ohio, right? And I'm like, yeah, John Levy told me you're from Ohio. Let me play you something else. He plays a song called Find 100 Ways, and he says, this is just a scratch track by a guy who's letting me hear how it can sound. And I said, what's his name? He said, his name is James Ingram. He's from Ohio. He's from where you from? And I'm saying, let him sing it, you know? And he says, yeah, yeah. This is my first day with the demo. And he. He puts on his album, find 100 ways, and just once, and allows the guy on the scratch track, the demo, James Ingram, to sing it. And James becomes a huge star. Those kind of moments are incredible blessings. And all I can do, in fairness, is try to return them every time I get the opportunity with a young man or young woman.

A (75:35)

I always hear you do that. You do that relentlessly and with great kindness. And Arsenio, we're gonna have to do a part two at some point because you have there's so much more to talk about. There really is. You've got so many words.

B (75:50)

Like they say in our business, we get off script.

A (75:53)

This was not a script. This was me loving the book and then talking to you about it.

B (75:57)

I appreciate it.

A (75:57)

And being really excited that you're here and fanboying a lot. So that's me being me.

B (76:03)

I'm a fan. You remember I came up to you.

A (76:05)

Were you outside the Four Seasons Hotel?

B (76:07)

Yes, I was.

A (76:07)

You came up to me and I was like, AR walked up to me, but so nice to me. Yeah, I'm always that way. You're.

B (76:14)

You're above the crowd wherever you are. You know, there's a lot of little guys with. With uniforms running around. I'm like, look at Conan above all the uniforms. How are you? I didn't. I didn't realize you were that tall.

A (76:26)

No one does. I have the personality of a very small man.

B (76:29)

Yeah, but in the paint.

A (76:31)

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Please, Arsenio, please come back, okay? Because people are gonna love this episode and we gotta keep it going.

B (76:41)

Okay. Thanks for letting me come.

A (76:42)

Are you kidding? Thank you. All this.

B (76:44)

He looks like one New Kids on the Block, you know?

A (76:49)

Eduardo, who do I look like? Which one?

B (76:53)

Oh, there's a dude and New Kids on the Block who looks like you. I'll say that my sisters loved New Kids on the box. Yeah, you look like his son. Cause he's spy fit, but I think he's 80. But you look like the son of one of new and one of Mark Wahlberg's guys. Anyway, but I hope we're off the air at this point.

A (77:17)

Conan o' Brien needs a friend. With Conan o', Brien, Sonam of Session and Matt Gourley produced by me, Matt Gourley executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross and Nick Leow. Theme song by the the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer. Samples, engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Bautista and Brit Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up@siriusxm.com Conan and if you haven't already please subscribe to Conan O' Brien needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded. Foreign. LinkedIn hiring pro can't predict the future, but it can help you feel confident about future hires because Hiring Pro combines real time insights and candidate Data from the LinkedIn network with the criteria you've set for your role to deliver you a list of top fit candidates. Businesses who use LinkedIn are 24% less likely to reopen a role in the next 12 months. Hire right the first time with LinkedIn hiring pro post a free job today@LinkedIn.com Pandora. You survived the Miami weekend, nailed the speech and maxed out your credit card in the name of friendship. Now you've got one hangover, four pastel dresses and zero reasons to wear them again. Sell them on Depop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the reason. Rest and you at least get some of your dignity money back. Someone on Depop wants what you've got. Start selling now Depop where taste recognizes taste.