Charlie Sheen

Summary

Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend – Charlie Sheen

Release Date: October 6, 2025
Host: Conan O’Brien (A), with Sona Movsesian (B) and Matt Gourley (D)
Guest: Charlie Sheen (C)

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Episode Overview

In this lively, revealing, and often hilarious episode, Conan O’Brien welcomes actor Charlie Sheen to reminisce about their long-standing rapport, Sheen’s legendary Hollywood journey, and the highs, lows, and lessons learned along the way. The conversation weaves through Charlie's childhood, breakout roles, Hollywood family dynamics, battles with addiction, working on "Two and a Half Men," brushes with near-misses (like almost starring in "Karate Kid"), and the importance of honesty, survival, and laughter. The mood, as always, is playful, fast-paced, and candid.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Conan and Charlie’s Comic Chemistry

• Conan recalls meeting Charlie before "Two and a Half Men," immediately sensing his comedic prowess, and being surprised by how quick and funny Charlie was given his leading-man looks.
  • Quote: “You were born with that head and I was born with this head. That infuriated me.” (10:33)
• Both agree their sense of humor and timing clicked instantly, which is rare in Hollywood pairings.

2. Growing Up in ’70s Hollywood & Super 8 Films

• Charlie shares Super 8 home-movie stories, made with his brother Emilio, Sean Penn, Rob & Chad Lowe, and others—just regular kids making gory "epics" before they were famous.
• Time spent on the "Apocalypse Now" set with his father (Martin Sheen) dramatically shifted Charlie’s filmmaking interests from innocent pranks to gory, action-driven scenes.
  • Quote: “Our prop department just being guns and blanks and blood. That was it.” (19:31)
• Conan riffs on nostalgia for helicopter-free childhoods.

3. Brat Pack Envy & Motivation

• Conan describes witnessing Charlie’s famous friends (Emilio Estevez, Demi Moore, Rob Lowe) in LA and feeling left out—a sensation Charlie says he shared at the time.
• Charlie describes feeling like “just taking up the rear,” serving as the valet on nights out, and letting his "inner bear" get poked, lighting a fire for his own fame.
  • Quote: “It lit a fire you could see from the moon.” (22:47)

4. Hollywood Breaks, Missed Opportunities & Family Dynamics

• "Karate Kid" Near-Miss:
  • Charlie was offered the lead in "Karate Kid" but turned it down out of loyalty to a prior commitment to "Grizzly 2," on the advice of his father, Martin Sheen.
  • He describes deep jealousy and relief upon seeing Ralph Macchio’s performance, realizing he may not have been the right fit after all.
  • Quote: “How would I have done that at all? … I think I kind of dodged a bullet here.” (58:34)
• Conan and Charlie discuss how “missed” gigs often end up aligning with your real fate.
• Family Choices:
  • Charlie reveals he had to “sell” his dad on using "Sheen" instead of Estevez as a stage name, thinking it better for his career, and how Emilio and Martin supported his documentary but didn’t appear in it to keep the focus on his story.

5. Addiction, Recovery & Hollywood Survival

• Charlie speaks honestly and humorously about his struggles, his survival instincts, and the luck involved in not succumbing (especially having never used fentanyl).
• Discusses the “business model” of rehab relying on relapse, echoing themes from Matthew Perry’s memoir—which deeply resonated with him.
  • Quote: “That sort of the business model is to rely on relapse. … And I'm going to get yelled at for saying that, but … it's true.” (34:14)
• Touching segment about his brief friendship with Matthew Perry, missed connections, and shared traumas, including the line:
  • “Veterans of the unspeakable” (Downey, 36:34).

6. "Two and a Half Men" & Comedy Craft

• Conan expresses admiration for Sheen’s unique sitcom comic style, which Charlie says drew some inspiration from Ted Danson but with a darker, more forgiving edge.
  • Quote (on his sitcom character): “I had confidence that what—whatever—that my character would wind up doing, that he would ultimately always be forgiven.” (39:01)
• Charlie addresses the rumor that his on-screen romantic exploits mirrored his off-screen life: “Anybody you see me dating on the show is just on the show, which kind of sucked.” (40:17)
• Conan and Sheen reminisce about real chemistry with John Cryer, reflecting on the ups and downs of their working relationship, and how Cryer’s involvement in the new documentary was important.

7. Hollywood Anecdotes and Generational Reflections

• Charlie shares the story of being passed over for "Platoon" in favor of Emilio initially, and how there was never sibling rivalry about it.
• Tells a poignant story about a childhood encounter with Roy Scheider (“Chief Brody”), later connected via Holland Taylor.

8. Genuine Moments and Notable Gifts

• Charlie gifts Conan his Arby’s “free food for life” card, inspired by past McFlurry jokes on “Spin City” and Conan’s show. Despite never having used it, he’s kept it for 20 years.
  • Quote: “Here’s the good news. I’ve never used it.” (66:35)

9. Honesty, Survival, and Empathy

• Conan closes with heartfelt gratitude that Charlie’s still here, noting the tragic losses of so many (Matthew Perry, etc.) and expressing appreciation for Sheen’s candor and humor.
  • Quote: “I’m really glad you’re still here. Because we lose all these people. We lose these beautiful people. … I’m just very grateful that you’re just still with us.” (68:17)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Hollywood Childhood:
  • “You’re making these innocent films, and then you go off … to shoot Apocalypse Now. … Your oeuvre completely changed.” (19:21, A)
• On Addiction/Rehab:
  • “That sort of the business model is to rely on relapse. … I’m going to get yelled at for saying that, but … it’s true.” (34:14, C)
• On Two and a Half Men:
  • “I had confidence that … my character would wind up doing, that he would ultimately always be forgiven.” (39:01, C)
• On Early Career Jealousy:
  • “It lit a fire you could see from the moon.” (22:47, C)
• On Being Honest:
  • “You are. Honest to a fault.” (23:29, A)
• On Surviving Hollywood:
  • “I’m really glad you’re still here. Because we lose all these people. … I’m just very grateful that you’re just still with us.” (68:17, A)
• Gift to Conan:
  • “Here’s the good news. I’ve never used it.” (66:35, C)
• Sibling Casting:
  • “It's the only role that ever—where our penises touched.” (50:36, C, riffing on brotherly competition for a role)

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Important Segments (with Timestamps)

• [10:21] – Conan & Charlie reminisce about their first meeting and discuss Charlie’s quick, dry wit.
• [16:25] – Discussion about childhood Super 8 movies and changing tone after “Apocalypse Now.”
• [21:55] – Charlie describes feeling left out in the Brat Pack days and how it motivated him.
• [32:21] – Story about Roy Scheider and the value of closing old circles.
• [34:14] – In-depth honest talk on addiction, rehab, and the dangers of relapse-driven “business models.”
• [38:16] – Appreciation for Charlie’s sitcom style on "Two and a Half Men."
• [47:18] – Conan recalls Martin Sheen's comedic guest spot on late-night in the early '90s.
• [54:30] – Charlie almost lands "Karate Kid," but declines out of principle—then reflects on that decision.
• [58:34] – Describes his sense of relief after seeing Ralph Macchio’s performance.
• [66:00] – Gift of the Arby’s card and story behind it.
• [68:17] – Conan expresses gratitude for Charlie’s survival and candor.

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Tone & Language

• True to Conan’s style: fast, irreverent, self-deprecating, and affectionate.
• Charlie is candid, quick-witted, reflective, and unflinching in self-analysis.
• Plenty of inside jokes, playful ribbing, and unexpected sincerity—balanced with Hollywood anecdotes.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode is a testament to the power of humor, honesty, and survival in Hollywood. Charlie Sheen and Conan O’Brien’s rapport brings out some of the best stories from Sheen’s storied life, revealing deep truths beneath the laughter. The tales—of missed movies, sibling rivalries, addiction and recovery, sitcom fame, and the absurdities of showbiz—shine with honesty and empathy. It’s a must-listen for fans of both comedy and classic Hollywood gossip, and a striking portrait of a famously wild life with a hopeful, redemptive note.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But also, there's so much you got to worry about and think about. Homes.com is home shopping the way it should be? Yeah. It's more than a website. It's your partner in finding the perfect home. Get to know potential neighborhoods with Homes.com's comprehensive neighborhood details. That's good to know.

[B]

You don't want to buy a house and everyone sucks.

[A]

No, it's the worst when you buy a house and everyone sucks. Homes.com features the listing agent on each listing so you can easily connect. Plus agent directory and profiles offer a detailed look at each agent's experience so you can find your perfect match. Sometimes someone's like, yeah, sure, I'm a housing agent. And you're like, really? You don't look like one. You know what I mean? You're just. You're wearing like a towel. What's going on? You're soaking wet.

[B]

He'd live there.

[A]

Yeah. Go to homes.com to learn more. You want the facts. That's not their slogan. I just made it up. Homes.com. we've done your homework.

[C]

Hi, my name is Charlie Sheen.

[A]

I love that you. Very few people struggle with their own name.

[C]

Well, no.

[A]

Charlie.

[C]

How are you, Charlie Came up with the. Fill in with the. In the middle of my name.

[A]

I'm using all of this. I don't care what you say.

[C]

I hope so. Yeah. Hi, my name is Charlie Sheen, and I feel enchanted about being Conan o' Brien's friend.

[A]

I love that. Yeah, I like that a lot.

[C]

I haven't used that word since childhood. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Fall is here Hear the yell back to school Ring the bell Brand new shoes Walking blues Climb the fence Books and pens I can tell that we.

[A]

Are gonna be friends Yes, I can.

[B]

Tell that we are gonna.

[A]

Hello and welcome to Conan o' Brien Needs a Friend, the podcast that gives life meaning. Sona Fsessian joining me along with Matt Gourley. Hi. And Sona, I understand you've got a big gig coming up. Do you want to talk about it?

[B]

Yeah. We were talking about a podcast recording we have coming up that I have to miss because I'm going to this episode. Oh, just kidding. Oh, I'm missing this episode.

[C]

You're missing this cause.

[B]

Oh, so you won't see me or hear me in Charlie Sheen's episode because they know it's Charlie Sheen. I'm pulling a cone and I'm like, do they know?

[A]

I'm sorry. I'm from the old school of show business where you. Voila. This is the new world of magic where they tell you how the trick works. Start with it going.

[D]

And tonight's guests are.

[B]

I know, I know. Nothing was ever a surprise.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Don't reveal how ignorant I am of my own life. I don't even know who I am at this point, so. But anyway, I'm going to try and clean my. My job is to clean up this. This brambled brush.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. You are going to miss the interview today because. Yes, you have to go on a big gig. Tell us what the gig is.

[B]

I'm doing a speaking engagement at a convention for assistance. Why are you laughing so hard? I was your assistant for 12 years.

[A]

You are terrible.

[B]

How dare you.

[D]

Why is there also a convention for assistance?

[B]

Because it's an important thing to bring us all together. We are the most powerful people in the entertainment community. I get that.

[C]

But this is gonna make me sound.

[A]

Really ignorant probably to a bunch of assistants speaking. She's the one who's laughing.

[B]

Stop laughing. All the assistants stop laughing.

[A]

I've been assistant.

[B]

I kept you alive for 12 years. I kept you alive. I kept you alive.

[A]

This is the greatest thing I've ever heard.

[B]

I got you to where you needed to be. I, I, I forgot what else I did.

[A]

I'm pretty sure, like, I welcome everybody to the convention of non killing murderers. And our speaker today is Genghis Khan. Genghis, talk about your life of not killing and not murdering. No violence.

[B]

These are my people. These are my people now.

[A]

Are you there? Is it kind of ironic that you're going. People know you wrote a book called World's worst Assistant.

[B]

Yeah. You wrote the forward for it.

[A]

I know. Yeah, you laugh.

[B]

You laugh at you. You did this. You laugh at. You.

[A]

You laugh at.

[B]

You enabled this. You'd laugh. You.

[A]

Is this a preview of your speech? Hey, number one rule of being assistant. You laugh. You. You laugh. You. What are you talking about? You're incoherent.

[B]

What I'm saying is you enabled me for 12 years.

[A]

Okay, sure. All right.

[B]

What do you mean, sure?

[A]

I mean, yes, I agree with you.

[B]

I don't think you ever reprimanded me. You just made all the time.

[A]

Right, but what I'm saying is, given that all of that is true, you still should not be speaking to thousands of assistants and putting your imprint on.

[B]

Their minds how I am. I am a success story.

[A]

In spite of yourself.

[B]

That's true. But I assisted a high profile individual for a very long time.

[A]

Very true, very true.

[B]

And I got you to where you needed to be. Yeah. What do you mean, yeah, I did.

[A]

Good debating skill. What do you mean? And the winner was debater.

[B]

I was. I was a champion speech. I didn't debate.

[A]

She didn't debate. Because debate involves logic and doing a little reading ahead of time. She was really good at going, oh, me?

[B]

No, you.

[C]

You look at you.

[A]

You look at you.

[C]

You look at you. You look at me funny.

[A]

Me funny. You.

[B]

You laugh, you. And you know, you did this. You did this.

[A]

You enabled champion once again is sonom of session.

[B]

No, for real. I came into this ambitious and then you started making fun of me. Very early on you said it sounded like I was arguing with Dracula when I was talking to my grandma on the phone.

[A]

It was your mother. And it broke and it did sound like arguing. You were going, blah, blah. And it did sound like, you know, Dracula the auctioneer. And I just commented on that and I thought was a very sensitive way.

[B]

Are you proud of what you've done to me?

[A]

Yes. I think it's really funny.

[B]

Is it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is it funny for you?

[A]

Yes, because you, you funny, you.

[B]

You. You funny, you.

[A]

Well, you win that one too. God, you're good.

[D]

What's the subject of your speech going to be?

[B]

It's not. It's a Q and A. I don't even have to have a prepared speech. I'm just going to have good conversation with someone, which is nice. It's called the EA Mafia. And you know, they're like, it's a. It's going to be in Palm Springs. It's going to be lovely.

[A]

Okay, I'm going to say this at the risk of ruining all our good fun. You were a remarkable assistant and. No, listen, I will say this on some of the specifics, a disaster. But the important thing is Sona would have jumped in front of a bullet for me. She would have. She's incredibly, incredibly loyal.

[D]

Why would you have done that?

[C]

I don't know.

[A]

To protect. Just so she could get overtime to protect my paycheck.

[C]

I don't know.

[A]

She'd be like, well, I'm shot now, so that's double overtime for the length of my recovery.

[B]

Can I say something, though? You compliment David hopping way more than you've ever complimented me. You always tell me he's doing a good job. Yeah, I taught him everything he knows.

[A]

I don't think that's true.

[B]

It's true.

[A]

No, he. He took over, and you were like, good luck to you. You do. You. You do. And then you jumped out a window and landed in a big hummus truck. Oh, that sounds good. I want to get it.

[B]

I want some of that.

[A]

That actually sounds really nice. Listen, no, I'm going to finish my nice thing.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yes, please. Incredibly loyal, very street smart. Savvy, really funny, and we had a blast. I had a blast working with you. I think 95% of the time we were doing bits. But, yeah, helped keep me sane. Or kept me insane. I don't know which. But, Sona, I love you and I owe you everything.

[B]

I love you, too. I'm serious, too. I really miss working with you on a daily basis.

[A]

But back to how terrible you were at this. You know what?

[B]

No. We were so close to a nice moment. Awful.

[C]

Come on.

[B]

Come on.

[A]

My favorite quote is the. We did a remote that you can look up on YouTube, I'm sure our website. Whatever. I don't know how things work. YouTube? What's that? YouTube. It should be on YouTube. YouTube's still a thing. Okay. On the tube, you can look it up. But when you and I worked with someone, the HR rep. The HR rep. Blaire, I think.

[C]

Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, that's right. Her name is Blair.

[A]

And you said. And you weren't making a joke. You say. I just think I have a mental block against assisting him. And I said, you are my assistant.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And it was such a great moment, because I think that's true. But it also, in a great way, worked.

[B]

It did work. It worked. And we're pals for life.

[A]

We are pals for life.

[B]

I'm a barnacle.

[A]

Also. I'm proud of you. I'm really glad that you're doing this, and I think those people are lucky to have you.

[B]

Oh, my God. Thanks so much.

[A]

And I'd like a piece of. What are you getting paid?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Can I get a little something?

[B]

You can't get it. No, that's mine. Don't do that.

[A]

I just want to wet my beak. I want to wet my beak.

[B]

No, don't do that.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

No. Stop. Stop. Doing that.

[A]

Ew. I love Wet My Beak Godfather too.

[B]

I don't like the sound effects.

[A]

Those are awful. Awful. My guest today, we gotta get into it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, there's no time to screw around. Maybe he wants to wet his beak.

[D]

That's all we've been doing, is screwing around. Just so we're clear.

[A]

I know. That is actually the job definition. That is what we do. Quit screwing around. We gotta get back to screwing around. My guest today is an actor whose new memoir, the Book of Sheen is out now. He also has a two part Netflix documentary titled AKA Charlie Sheen. Charlie Sheen, welcome. I want to make it clear to all my listeners, I met you years and years ago. You came on. I didn't realize you came on my show eight times.

[C]

That's amazing.

[A]

You came on the show a lot. And the first time I met you, my immediate reaction was, and this was long before Two and a Half Men.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

My reaction was, damn, this guy's really funny.

[C]

Oh, right on.

[A]

And I remember clicking with you right away just about how funny you are, which enraged me because you were born with that head and I was born with this head. That infuriated me that you were so quick and verbally dexterous. Your delivery is so dry. You have the features and, of course, the career of a leading man actor.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

But you are so funny in ways that could surprise because it's not what I expected coming out of you. And I think that served you really well over the years. Thank you.

[C]

And now speak to that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

How do you. What can I say?

[A]

Where do you go from there?

[C]

What can I say that you didn't.

[A]

Well, you could say, no, no, no, you're wrong, Conan. It is you. Right, Right. There's that. Who is the true master? Of course you haven't done that.

[C]

It was you, though, when I discovered that, that we had, like, instantly we had a comedic rapport and we understood each other's rhythms and timing and sensibilities.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[C]

And that doesn't usually. That's rare.

[A]

No, it was so much fun. I remembered, you know, there was always, as, you know, you generate all kinds of stories. And at the time, there was some story about how you liked feet, you know, ladies, feet.

[C]

Oh, right. We did it with Andy.

[A]

Yeah. And our producer, Frank Smiley said, and, you know, we thought, well, we'll pitch you this thing. And I thought, well, you know, Charlie Sheen might just get mad and punch us. It was all about us showing you different feet and you rating them.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And you were like, of course yes, let's do that. And then you did it. And you were really funny. And to me it's. Oh, he's really fun to play with. And there's so many ways that I. First of all, a lot of similarities. You and I were. When you talk about who really partied hard in the 80s and 90s, it's always Charlie Sheen, Conan O'.

[C]

Brien. Well, yeah, I mean. And not always in that order.

[A]

Not always in that order. No, no.

[D]

I'm sure he didn't party and you didn't just clean up.

[A]

Yeah, no, no. I. And Charlie will bear this out, but there was not a moment in his hard living times when I wasn't right across the room. It was me, Nick Cage, and you. And I was.

[C]

And Sean Penn, of course.

[A]

And Sean Penn. And I remembered you guys sometimes saying, conan, slow down.

[C]

Yeah, but that didn't matter if you never listened to us. But if you're gonna set up.

[A]

Yeah, that's why when I watch the documentary, read the book, I'm like, hey, where am I, man? I was there often leading the way.

[C]

Well, as litigious as you've been in the past, we were like, let's just disappear him. And we did. And I thought you'd see that as a compliment.

[A]

You know, my wife, very appreciative. My kids, so glad not to be mentioned. It's so funny. Cause you've always made me really laugh. And you've had this unusual career where you know these films, these iconic films that you were, that you were in, and then where you're playing, it's heavy roles and leading man stuff and, you know, Oscar winning, you know, Platoon and you're in Wall street. And then you have this, we were talking about it, Major League and the Hot Shots, where you got to show this other muscle that most guys in your position didn't. Wouldn't have had that kind of flexibility.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

And you probably knew all along I could do that if I had to. Or did you not know?

[C]

Well, the Hot Shots movies, I. Going into it, I was gonna be borrowing from the late, great Leslie Nielsen.

[A]

Yes. Yeah.

[C]

And I just. I kind of. Cause I saw those films as a child or as a young teenager, like with Emilio in Westwood on a Friday night, watching Airplane. It was the first time when I thought, oh my gosh, someone else gets my sense of humor.

[A]

And when I saw that, I thought, oh, yes, this is what it is. Your eyes don't twinkle when you say it. You have to have the 10,000 yard stare. Everything you brought to any of their. Your serious movies you now bring to this. But what you're saying and doing is quite absurd.

[C]

Right. So I have to kill those jokes. Like I killed Sergeant Barnes.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

I just came up with that. That's amazing. And then I had another.

[A]

Very good.

[C]

Thank you, thank you. I just. That's a fresh one for me.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[C]

And then I just realized that you're talking with us, too. I don't mean that demeaningly, but you don't have to. You're part of the triangle.

[A]

You know what? We discourage him as much as possible.

[C]

Okay. Okay. Because I don't want to be like, he's the only one that matters.

[A]

You really don't? No.

[C]

Charlie, you had a show.

[D]

Not really.

[C]

Are you filling in for someone today? No, I've never met this guy before in my life.

[A]

No? No. He was here to fix the H vac.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

And we said. He said, this chair is comfortable. I said, well, have a seat, and said, this is true.

[D]

I did see Platoon when I was in sixth grade. Six times. In the theater.

[C]

In sixth grade.

[D]

Middle school.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

And I was obsessed with that movie you saw.

[B]

How many times?

[D]

Six times.

[C]

Six times.

[A]

So you have. I mean, that's a lot of money in Charlie's pocket that came directly, and.

[D]

I'm here to get it back.

[A]

You were dissatisfied, but you couldn't stop seeing it.

[C]

That was a lot of money in Oliver's pocket. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, how cute.

[C]

I didn't have any ownership back then, you know. Of course.

[A]

Right. But one of the things that, you know, between your book and the documentary, both of which I've found fascinating.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

One of the things that I connected to on a personal level was because we're the same vintage, I grew up, came of age in the 70s as a kid.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

And in the documentary, you're showing a lot of footage from your Super 8 films that you're making. And I recognize the jeans. I recognize the shirts, the jackets. I also recognize this idea that there were no helicopter parents back then. You just did whatever you did all day long with your friends.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

My parents never knew what I was up to or what I was doing. In my case, not much. In your case, a lot. But I was looking at those, looking at your Super 8 films, and I was thinking, yeah, I remember this part of my life that resonates with me so powerfully. Killing time with your friends. Only in your case, your friends are Sean Penn and his brother Chris. Chris. Your brother Emilio. You're. I mean, it's A who's who of very famous actors that you're clowning around with, only you're doing the same shit that I was doing in Brookline, Massachusetts, with my brothers, only we didn't go on to become iconic movie legends. You guys did well.

[C]

Yeah. And there's two people that are missing from the dock only. Cause they joined the party late. And the choice in the dock to focus on that specific capture of time. And that was Rob and Chad Lowe. So they were also right down the street. It was like, what was in the water?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

What was in that point? Do more.

[A]

And was Rob moisturizing back then as a child?

[C]

He must have been. He must have been. Yeah.

[A]

It just. That guy kills me.

[C]

What is.

[A]

He'll be my face rotting like a pumpkin in the hot, late October sun. And I've had talks with him, and I remember I was talking to him once, and he reached into his pocket and it came out, and there was, like a little packet in there. And he was like, squeak, squeak, squeak.

[C]

Is that true? Did that happen?

[A]

I think it happened. I think it happened. But he, you know, some internal clock went off that must moisturize. But yes. I don't know if he'll outlive me, but his face will outlive me by 120 years.

[C]

All of us. Yeah, all of us.

[A]

Yeah. But one of the things that was fascinating about watching the doc was you're making these very innocent films with your friends. Then you go off because your dad, Martin Sheen, is going to shoot Apocalypse Now. You and your family join him. When you come home from Apocalypse now, spending a long time in the Philippines, your films change in tone, and you actually have some of the props from Apocalypse now, like a severed hand. You brought stuff back, and suddenly all of the films go from, ha, ha, oops, we fell down. Oops, I went boom. Yay, hippie.

[B]

Woo.

[A]

And then you come back from shooting that, and it's people shooting themselves, shooting each other, hands flying, body parts.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Your oeuvre completely changed.

[C]

It did. It did. Yeah. I. I guess the. The violence, the pure spectacle, the sheer amount of blood and body parts. Yeah. On Apocalypse, like, just like a. You know, like on a Tuesday, you know, just seeing that and. But also starting to, like, get. Get in touch with, you know, not. Not with the emotional aspects of fx makeup and gore and all that, but with the technical, filmic versions of it, you know, and. And then wanting so badly to. To. To emulate that and bring that home. And then basically it went from the stuff you talked about to our prop department just being guns and blanks and blood. Yeah, that was it.

[A]

I mean it's really funny to see that change some of that's age. But also you were just on the set of Apocalypse now for a long time, right? There's skulls everywhere.

[C]

There's skulls everywhere. The heads. You're looking at the heads. I mean there's a lot.

[A]

This is you at catering. Yeah, there's just skulls and bodies and I'm just here for a taco.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You had these friends who were becoming famous and then you had your brother Emilio becomes very famous, huge star. And then there's the whole Brat Pack phenomenon. All those guys and gals. And I remembered I came out to LA in 85 and I have a very clear memory of working at Sunset Gower Studios as a 22 year old walking up the street to make a deposit at the Wells Fargo on Sunset in Hollywood. And all of a sudden I saw this Jeep open. Jeep roar passed and it was Emilio and Demi and Ro. They were all, and they were all going, yay. And they went by me and I remember thinking, oh boy, if only I could be in that Jeep. That's how I talked back then. Of course, Surgery. We all did your early movies where you're like, I'm gonna go to Wall Street. So glad they did ADR and fixed that. Yeah, you are around that. And I was thinking, oh right, you'd have been around the rat, but no one knows who you are yet. And what did that feel like?

[C]

It felt awful. Yeah, it felt, I felt like I was just, you know, taking up the rear. I felt like a valet on certain nights even when I was in the mix. Like we'd start at the Hard Rock Cafe and then we'd get, you know, wherever the night took us to all the VIP lounges and all the special places where you, you know, try to hang out with the Untouchables, you know, not, not, not the band, like, you know, actually. Yeah, super famous people. But I never. It, it felt the, the worst was when all the attention from all, all the pretty girls, you know, and, and they would all go home with them, you know, and I would just go home. And it was, and I just. But it was in. I think there's a line in the book that my, my, my inner bear had been poked and it, and it, and it lit a fire you could see from the moon.

[A]

You know, you knew on some level because had you been a different person, you might have said, well, gee, I'd like to be in Their situation, But that's not really my thing. It almost seems to me like you had this subconscious knowledge I'm supposed to be one of the people that everybody knows.

[C]

Well, that. Or at least be part of all of the perks. You know, I didn't give a shit about acting. I was looking at that just like, you know, if I can just give.

[A]

A shit about acting, if I could.

[C]

Just get a job that everybody, like, you know, lines up to go see.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Then that's how my nights will end. I mean, seriously, that's kind of the inspiration.

[A]

You are. Honest to a fault.

[C]

Thank you. Thank you.

[A]

I only got into comedy to do good works.

[C]

Right. I know.

[A]

In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. I'm not familiar with these perks you speak of. Now, if you excuse me, I have nine Bentleys duct taped together. I'm going to drive home.

[B]

Bl. I've been to your apartment many times. Look, I don't know if you know this, but I'm an interior decorator now.

[A]

I've heard. Yes.

[B]

Specifically with Ashley.

[A]

And you have great taste.

[B]

I think you need to ju it up a little bit, okay? Especially your sofa. Your sofa is horrendous.

[A]

I play a lot of video games. Honestly, the couches are sagging and it's. My back is really hurting. So I really could use some new furniture and your help in picking out something that's going to look nice and it's going to last me for a long time.

[B]

I picked out a few sofas that I think might fit your vibe a little bit.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

This has a recliner. It's got lights on the bottom, and it's got cup holders.

[A]

Ooh, I like this a lot. Now, would you see me as a leather guy or a cloth guy?

[B]

Look, I run hot.

[A]

I'm sweaty all the time.

[B]

Me. You know what? I'm not even going to make fun of you for that, because so am I. That's what friendship's all about. Sweating together. Let's see the next one.

[A]

Ooh, I like this a lot. I like the speaker in it. I like the color. I like the cloth. Yeah, here's the thing. I don't want to go to the store to pick this up.

[B]

I understand. And this is the beauty of Ashley. Ashley provides fast, reliable white glove delivery right to your door.

[A]

That's great. I think when I see this, it's not just a new sofa. It's a new life.

[B]

It's a new beginning.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

Visit your local Ashley store or head to Ashley.com to find your style.

[A]

This podcast is supported by FX's English Teacher. You love the show, don't you, Sonna?

[B]

I love this show.

[A]

I haven't checked it out yet, but I hear it's great.

[B]

It's great.

[A]

Last year's critically acclaimed series returns to follow Evan, Gwen and Markie as they vie for their students divided attention. See why Cosmopolitan calls its premiere season a Masterclass of Comedy? FX's English Teacher. All new Thursdays on FX. All episodes now streaming on Hulu. Fall is here and that means fall clothes. I love fall clothes.

[C]

Me too.

[A]

But this is something we really agree on. Well, this is something we really got because I like to cover as much of my body as possible and most people agree I should. Macy's Fall Fashion Guide is your one stop shop for the season's biggest trends curated by Macy's style experts. Think Weekend in the country. The new boho and statement luxury. For her that means romantic flowy dresses from cece, sheer looks from Inc. Luxe leather by Donna Karan and Karl Lagerfeld, and bold animal prints from Anne Klein, Steve Madden and more for him. Well, Levi's bomber jackets, vintage inspired denim statement loafers and relaxed suiting from Hugo Boss and Michael Kors. Shop now@macy's.com or in store today. There's so much. I really recommend the documentary because there's so much in it. Yes. There's all these harrowing tales that you have. There are moments where I as you. As your star rises and you're self medicating and you're getting into all kinds of stuff where I'm like, okay, that's not me. Like there's a scene where you're actually being very valiant. You're trying to help a woman out who's in a bad situation. She's in a house with kind of a violent guy.

[C]

Oh, right, right, right. Yeah.

[A]

And you say, well, I went to the. I knew she was in there with this tough guy, so I went out to my trunk of my car and popped it open and I took out my. And you know the exact. I do, I do make and model of the gun.

[C]

Yeah, it was an HK P7M13.

[A]

Okay. Not the way I go. I go for a Glock M89 44B carry the three.

[C]

They were sold out of those.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

The day I bought the hk.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. No, no, no, that's right. I think of it, I was just a lady's handgun. But anyway, it shoots bubbles. What do you. What do you want? No, you, you, you.

[C]

Yeah. Why Was I so specific about that? In the dock.

[A]

In the dock, it stood out to me. Like, you rattle off the name of the gun and you, like, chamber around and put it in your waistband. I'm like, okay, you're an actor. What are you doing?

[C]

Well, you know, rolling through a dangerous neighborhood. Right. So I figured I should pack a little heat.

[A]

But it's in the trunk of your car.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Could you pardon me for a minute, sir? I'll take care of you. If you don't mind, I'll step out of the car, get my. In the trunk. If you don't mind.

[C]

Yeah. Wait, all my. My. My wallet's in the trunk. Hey, buddy. No, but it still came in handy.

[A]

It did.

[C]

That was a tough guy moment, though. That doesn't really speak to, like, who I claim to be or. Or. Or want to be. But it did feel dangerous enough that I needed to be armed.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

In that moment, in that. In that creepy place to help her out.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I just. I'm really glad I didn't have to shoot anybody.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. Because that's when it gets confirmation.

[C]

I mean, it gets.

[A]

No, I say it would be good if you shot up the place.

[C]

Okay. But that's when it gets messy.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

You know?

[A]

Yeah. Yes.

[C]

And I do not. And not like our Super 8 movies.

[A]

Right, right. This is the real thing.

[C]

Is that it's just disallowed. Are we, like, not.

[D]

I don't see any issue.

[C]

I have no issue with it at all. Just nicotine.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

No, it's all.

[A]

I mean, I'm fine with it.

[D]

Vape away.

[A]

Okay. No, I was going to say he was doing something else since it's audio. Yeah. He said, is this okay? And he started removing his clothes.

[C]

Can you imagine? He just pulled out a heckler and Cox. Seven, nine, B.

[A]

Is this okay if I fire upon Conan?

[C]

Amazing.

[A]

Yeah, it's fine. Yeah. I don't have a problem with it.

[C]

But back to that night. Yeah. With Sandy. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I'm not doing this in any particular order. It's just as things come to me. And one of the things that comes to me is. Which makes me sad, but you are very evocative of another very handsome, very talented, extremely verbally funny person that I got to know a little bit. Not super well, but Matthew Perry.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[A]

He came on my show just as Friends was hitting, and he got there early, and I remembered us just chatting in 30 Rock in the hallway and laughing, taking a little walk and laughing. And, you know, and I just thought, damn, this guy's so as you are verbally dexterous. Funny. Then I find out that you guys actually became friendly before he passed away. We did. Which makes complete sense to me.

[C]

Sure, sure. I wish that I had stayed in better touch with him or just stayed more available or his orbit was a. Was a hard one to. To penetrate, you know, Or. Or his. His ecosystem or whatever, which isn't unsurprising because, you know, when people need to be insulated to. To. To. To hide or protect the things that they're. That they're doing. Yeah. The less people getting past the velvet rope, the better, you know? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, that makes sense. I just.

[C]

But I read his book and I read it in a day and I just. I started it and I was like, okay, I don't want to do anything else until I finish this. And then I wanted to reach out to him and then, you know, kids and stuff in life, and I was like, ah, call him tomorrow. Ah, call him next week. But I wanted to just congratulate him and have a laugh about how I was included in his book, that there's one line where he says, fuck Charlie Sheen. I'm going to be just as famous one day. You know, he was, like, using me like I used Emilio and Rob and dad and the rest of them, you know, And I never got to reach out and first of all, thank him for that and congratulate him on the book. And then he, I think, died a month after I read it. Yeah. You know, it was that there was a moment in my childhood. There was a coffee house in Malibu, and it sits like it was there for years. And they finally tore it down, like the get rid of everything cool. Right? And I think I was 11 or 12, I had decided that Jaws was the greatest film ever made. Right. And I saw it in the movie theater a hundred times, like, in a movie theater because it played in theaters for a year or longer. So anyway, in the middle of that, probably 40 showings into that, right. Dad drops me off at that diner and I go inside. He said, I'll park the car and I'll join you in a minute. Right? So I'm waiting for him, and a person sits down next to me and I turn and look at him, and it's Roy Scheider.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[C]

It's Chief Brody. And I'm frozen. I don't know what to do. I literally don't. I. We don't. There's no languages available. There's no. I mean, I'm 12, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And. And then he was there, just briefly. Dad took a while with the car. They knew each other from New York. That introduction could have been like, oh, hey, by the way, it's my son, right. He leaves, dad shows up, and I say, chief Brody was just here, right? And he says, ah, it's too bad. I know him. I could have introduced you. So then. So I never got to tell him that. Right. And I was always like, jesus, if I ever saw. You know, if I ever see him out in the world, then, you know, I'll say, wow, as a child in this thing. But during Two and a Half, Holland Taylor played my mom. She knew him, and so she got that message to him.

[A]

Oh, that's good.

[C]

Yeah. Before he passed, you know. But it was another one of those things. It was with Matthew that it was kind of. It reminded me of the Scheider. Scheider. Missed opportunity.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Matthew wrote very honestly about his experiences and must have rang a lot of bells with you about those demons and what it's like.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

To have that kind of. To be wrestling with that level of addiction.

[C]

Yes. And his story, I think, took us more through a lot of the, you know, just a lot of the stuff that. That he dealt with, specifically with rehabs and with detoxes and with that whole world that tends to cycle people. You know what I'm saying? That sort of the business model is to rely on relapse. Yeah. And I'm going to get yelled at for saying that, but there's. It's really true, you know, and then they.

[A]

They can probably happen insidiously where it starts out one way, but then things can become a business.

[C]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

And then you want to return customer sometimes. And I mean, I'm not. I'm. I'm asking. I'm not telling because I don't know.

[C]

Yes, yes, that, that, that. That is accurate.

[A]

Okay, well, the lawsuit's on you then.

[C]

Yeah, that's fine. It's fine.

[A]

Once again, in that.

[C]

To the stack.

[A]

There's actually seven stacks behind you of lawsuits, but I.

[C]

But I could relate to a lot of that and just being at the mercy of people all the time and just giving away, giving up your power and giving up your agency and giving up just the.

[A]

The.

[C]

The. The light that makes you special, you know, and it just. That just being dimmed, you know? Plus, I never did the freaking drug that he, you know. Was it ketamine? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The other thing that I'm. I'm grateful that, you know, I was never involved. My Heavy struggle. Use never included Fentanyl.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So that was never.

[A]

There's a good chance you wouldn't be here.

[C]

Exactly, exactly. Yeah. My ex wife, Brooke was engaged to a guy who had a nice business, you know, former athlete, young dude, good looking, but couldn't stop getting loaded and wound up in rehab again and scored dope some cocaine in rehab and went into the bathroom and did a couple big lines and died on his way to the floor. So it's like. And that was Fentanyl?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, and I just think about, my gosh, how many situation was I in where, you know, we couldn't like order the fentanyl test strips on Amazon back then.

[A]

Right.

[C]

I mean, it was just as you.

[A]

Can now you're saying. Well, yeah, yeah, you can, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. I thought you meant orders. Fentanyl on Amazon.

[C]

No, the test strip.

[A]

Oh, damn it. For a second I was like, well, hold on, my phone's right here.

[C]

We're wrapping early.

[A]

Yeah, I misheard you. But it's not like today when you can just get Fentanyl on Amazon. There's another lawsuit, but not me again. You. Yeah, you Talk about. There was a great quote where you said that you and Matthew Perry. I had a friend of yours that described you guys as veterans of the unspeakable.

[C]

Yeah. And that's a Downey quote.

[A]

Is it Jim Downey?

[C]

No. Robert Downey Jr. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah, that's a Downey quote.

[A]

Most people say Downey quote, and I go to Jim Downey. That's awesome. Comedy writer.

[C]

That's awesome.

[A]

And you go to that other Downey who no one knows. Maybe one day there's another really funny, very funny, verbally dexterous guy, Brian. Actor.

[C]

No, And a lovely man.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. But it's.

[C]

I gave him a new nickname in my book. I call him Bobby D.J. oh, that's pretty good, right?

[A]

I like Bobby D.J.

[C]

That rolls right off the tongue, right? Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Bobby DJ okay, well, I don't have one of those. I have a. I'm not gonna say guilty pleasure because usually when you say, oh, I watch these comedies on reruns, but I'm friendly with one of your directors on Two and a Half Men. Jamie Widows.

[C]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Who's a lovely guy?

[C]

One of the great people ever.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, He's a lovely guy. He's hilariously funny. A lot of you will know him. Like, wait a minute, how do I know that? You know, great TV director, but Animal House, he's in Animal House. He's Hoover. I Believe. Oh, in Animal House, you know. Well, now, hold on a second, Dean. You know, you sit down. Smart. You know that smart guy.

[C]

And he tells great stories from that set.

[A]

He has great stories about Belushi. He has great stories. I mean, I got to get him on here to tell those great stories, but his price is high. So.

[C]

Wait.

[A]

Anyway, he talks about you should be.

[D]

Getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[C]

Interesting. Wow. They skipped that part.

[A]

Yeah. Just skipped it. It'll be big. Two and a Half Men. Anytime that show is on, I'll watch it.

[C]

Seriously?

[A]

Yeah. Because your character in that is funny, in a way. Because I'm such a comedy nerd. I'm like, this is a little different. I'm trying to think of who else has been funny in this way. It feels very original to me to be playing that rhythm on a sitcom. It just felt unique to me. You feel like there's some precedence for it?

[C]

Well, yeah, I was borrowing or honoring parts of it from Ted Danson.

[A]

Right. From Cheers. Yeah, but it's darker.

[C]

It is darker.

[A]

It is darker. Had to be somewhat likable.

[C]

Of course.

[A]

That didn't seem to trouble your character at all, being likable, you know, like, you still like your character. You're not afraid to say the most horrendous things.

[C]

Right. Because I had confidence that what. Whatever. That they. That my character would wind up doing. That he would ultimately always be forgiven.

[A]

I've watched the blocking on that show. I think you burn 4 calories an episode. You're always very comfortably dressed, and you're always. Usually sitting one leg crossed over the other with a beer. And then other people can have complete meltdowns, or John can have a complete meltdown. Sure. You're watching. You've got some great jokes.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

Then cut to you in bed with an incredibly different beautiful woman every week, and you're like, wait a minute. Did you win some kind of contest?

[C]

Must have. Must have. Yes. Yeah. No, that's an aspect to it that nobody complained about. The actors or the audience. Yeah. And interestingly enough, I was either married or in some relationship. No, it was only two relationships during the entirety of Two and a Half. It was either with Denise married, and then that went bad, and then Brooke married, and then that went bad. So anybody you see me dating on the show is just on the show, which kind of sucked.

[A]

I love that you're acting like. I know it's hard to believe, but I didn't actually sleep with that woman in that scene. That's usually the case.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

This is gonna be hard for you to believe, but I've interviewed thousands and thousands of women, over 30 years of television, and guess what? I didn't sleep with any of them.

[C]

Seriously. Wow. How is that possible?

[A]

Thanks, pal.

[C]

Thanks.

[A]

Okay. Bea Arthur. Wow.

[C]

Wow. You brought Bea into it.

[A]

I had to. I had to.

[C]

You mentioned that you watch it whenever it's on.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Do you know who else does? My parents. My parents will stop what they're doing, and if they finish dinner or they're about. Then two and a half is on. They'll just sit down. That's fantastic. And they'll just take it in. And then I'll show up at the house the next day. Right. They'll be like, hey, we watched this episode where so and so does this. And then the kid did that. And then so what? Why did John do that other thing? And I'm like, mom, I, I, I. I don't. I can't answer that question. I don't remember the episode. You know what I'm saying? They want specific details.

[A]

Oh, I know.

[C]

You know what I'. And I'm like, okay, give me a little bit of backstory. And all the backstories are identical. You know what I'm saying? It's the week you threw John out of the house. I'm like, I need more. I need more, Mom.

[A]

You're slightly. Yeah. Unpleasant. You're skeptical that something John's trying to do is going to work out.

[C]

Right. And you're drunk in the scene. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You immediately throw one woman over for another. What happened in that episode? I really like watching you and John Crier.

[C]

Oh, thank you. The scenes together.

[A]

Thank you. There's a really nice, real chemistry there.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

And I know I was happy because I'm friendly with John, and I know that you guys went through stuff and that could not have been easy for John.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

I was very happy that he participated. I was, too, because it felt like there was a. A bit of a. Let's put that behind us. Let's come together. Which I thought was, for the most part, there was.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

[A]

When you say for the most part, who's. Who, he's.

[C]

Because there's a couple moments in the. In the doc where he's still kind of hacking on me a little bit, you know, and then he's questioning, like, if he should be in the dock because, you know, is it gonna be another Sheen experience that starts great and finishes in the toilet? You know?

[A]

Right, right.

[C]

So I proved him wrong this time.

[A]

Have you, though because many people consider coming on this podcast to be a rock bottom. That's a good point. And by the way, I went through all of your experiences, both in the book and the doc. This is your rock bottom.

[C]

Okay? Okay.

[A]

This beats you going to your. The trunk of your car for a Mi 15.

[C]

33. 28.

[A]

30. 23. What is it? 36. So whatever. There was a different time when you watch 60s movies that joke about women's measurements all the time that people did back then. What is it? She's 24. 30. I forget how it goes.

[C]

36. 20 or 36.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, whatever. And you're like, what? You watch it now and it's just a standard thing. Like, she's 36. You know, 24, 36. You're like. You're listing her bust and hip measurements. What? I've never understood it.

[C]

Clearly, there doesn't need to be math in that moment.

[A]

You're taking what should be a beautiful moment and reducing it to geometry. 2. Two ratios. The ratio of hip to breast is quite pleasing. It's the golden mean the Greeks discuss.

[C]

Pythagorean theorem.

[A]

Your Emilio is not in and your dad's not in. Is that. Do you. I think you mentioned at one point you wish they were in the dock, but they maybe felt like they don't want to speak to all of this. I don't know.

[C]

They watched a rough cut of the first episode at my house with the director, Andrew Renzi. Ramon was there, mom was there, and they loved it. They were so entertained. They were laughing. They were just like. They were so engaged. And then they both said, you know, dad said, I'm already in this thing. I'm already represented in this thing. And I like the way I look in that better than today. He said, you don't want such an actor thing. He said, you don't want the old version of me, you know, And I'm like, well, kind of. And, well, you know, that's the authentic moment right now. And so he said, no, no, no, I can't. And then Emilio. They both decided that or came to a realization that they. It was my story. And even though they're, you know, part of my life and obviously the whole journey, they didn't want to get in the way of my story. They didn't want to in any way put it through their own filters or. Or in. In ways that might misrepresent some of the stuff, how it actually happened, you know, they didn't want to get in the way. But of course, the press Jumps on it and they're like, they're not in it. What's the backstory? What's the feud? You know, and there, there's like not none.

[A]

Well, I, I. Your dad has a very special place in my heart. Because early on when I was doing my show in 93, 94, and people were saying, what is this? Who is this guy? This comedy is aggressively strange. We had a bit where it's very hard to explain, but it was. Stay in your seat. Theater where we would.

[C]

It's already funny. It's already funny.

[A]

Well, we would have. We needed someone with gravitas who would. I think it was a medical drama. And we needed an actor who, A guest who would be the medical drama. But what happened is we had other actors with green screen sort of felt over their faces moving to different positions. And then when their line came up, we would take someone from the audience, literally a person who had been waiting in line outside rock Forest Center 20 minutes ago. Their face would suddenly be put on the actors bodies. They're just sitting in their seat. Do you remember? I don't know if anyone has seen this, but they would project it. It's early, early aggressively weird stuff. Your dad said he'd do it. And so, I mean, we never thought Martin Sheen would do this.

[C]

He'd be the superimposed face.

[A]

No, no, he, he was the actual guy. He's Martin Sheen as the doctor. And then he'd turn to another doctor and go, what's the diagnosis? And we'd be just a body there with the green sock on. And then someone from the audience who's just sitting in their seat, who's from the Bronx, their face would be there doing a scene and they would just. We'd hold up a cue card and they'd say 3ccs of Palahoma Samazone. And your dad would go like, great. And then one more thing. I'm in love with you. You know, and your dad just went to it.

[C]

Did he commit to it? The whole thing?

[A]

He didn't. I mean, of course he did.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

He committed to it 1,000%.

[C]

That's amazing.

[A]

And I, he was lovely to me and we had a great conversation. And I've always just had a, just a. I mean, who does that? Especially with his stature, you know, this new guy. Something that's bound to fail. Let's do it.

[C]

Sign me up.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. So. Well, I'm, I'm glad that you guys are. And you talk about this. I didn't realize that Emilio was the first Choice that Oliver Stone wanted for Platoon.

[C]

Interesting, right?

[A]

Yeah, interesting isn't the word.

[C]

I know, I know. It's bananas.

[A]

Let's go with interesting.

[C]

Interesting. Okay.

[A]

Let's not use a fruit. But no, I mean, first of all, stuff between siblings and brothers especially, I think can be entertaining. I shouldn't say that. Sisters, too, but stuff between brothers is extremely loaded.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Then you're both saying, let's do this acting thing. Emilio's first having success. Then there's this, what turns out to be a very important film, very important, big director, and Emilio's their first choice. He's gonna do it. And then something happens. The project gets delayed. And then they come around and they say, well, Charlie, Oliver wants to see you for it now.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

How heavy is that?

[C]

It's. Man, it's a trip. Emilio and I never had that moment where we sat down and processed it or even gave it the. You know, it never existed between us that we felt that we needed to, you know, because it wasn't like that didn't work out for him. And then he did nothing. You know, he did a ton of cool shit and films that people are still talking about to this day. You know, I didn't mean to speak for him, but he told me that he didn't love the script. He didn't love the script. And then if you ever have him on, there's a story with him and Tom Cruise, like, jogging on the beach. That's already a great image, isn't it? Slow motion, the whole thing. And they're talking about the script, though, Platoon, and they're kind of comparing notes, and Emilio's like, well, what about this thing? What about when he. You know, then when the bunny character pees in the. In the dead VC's face and calls him this thing, you know? And, like, what about all that? And Tom's like, yeah, man, it's pretty gnarly. And. And so it. I don't.

[A]

How about we. Us losing the Vietnam War? That's a drag, that part. We should win it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But.

[C]

So I don't. I don't think Emilio really felt like he missed out on a fantastic opportunity, which is interesting, until he saw it and was like, oh, shit. But I think he sees that it just would have been a slightly different film with him than it was with me. Because that is. I think that is the only part that we've ever. What's the cross Swords on? No, that's not right. What is the thing?

[A]

It's the image in my head now. No changing that.

[C]

But it's the only role that ever.

[A]

Where your penis is touched.

[C]

Our penis is touched. Yes. Yes.

[A]

I'm trying to help you. Am I helping at the premiere?

[C]

So what the hell? That's not in the doc, is it?

[A]

Jesus.

[C]

I wanted to save something good for this, you know. Sorry, Emilio. Now I've done it.

[A]

Running a business on a clunky old phone system. Well, I don't know what it's like. Hey, I know what it's like. It's like competing with one hand tied behind your back. That's what it's like. I've had my hand tied behind my back and I didn't like it. Every time you miss a call, that's money left on the table. Quo works through an app on your phone or computer so you can run your business from anywhere. Quo makes your phone system smarter, logging calls, creating summaries, and automating next steps. And yes, their built in voice agent is named Sona. It's not you. Sona.

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[C]

Right. It was originally called Grizzly 2 the Predator just for anybody. Any cinephiles out there that think I'm violating the true spirit of the Grizzly.

[A]

Franchise, well, I'm just gonna tell you.

[C]

Besmirching the great Matt Gorley.

[A]

Grizzly saw Grizzly Chew Revenge in the theater 75 times.

[C]

I'll thank you to respect the sanctity.

[A]

Of my favorite film series, regardless of whether you were in it.

[C]

I'm outta here. I move to dismiss.

[A]

Yeah. Motion denied. But, you know, you. This is the crazy story. So you've said, yes, I'll do Grizzly 2 Revenge, which, by the way, also stars George Clooney and Laura Dern. Laura Dern. So a lot of great talent came out of Grizzly 2. And the bear has gone on to. Yeah, he has now the. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

He's got that whole. That whole honey company.

[A]

That's stupid.

[C]

That was stupid.

[A]

He's the Paul Newman of honey.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

All profits go to me. But, you know, you say you're gonna do that, and then you get this call that they want you to be the star of the Karate Kid.

[C]

That happened. Yes.

[A]

And take it.

[C]

So I. I think it was on a Friday, and I went and I auditioned with. With Avildson. Correct. We have a research team here.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

With John Amelson. Yeah. And I thought the. The audition was a disaster.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And it was the scene where he wakes up from the beating of the bullies. Right. And he wakes up to his. To this, you know, this mystical sensei. Right. And so. To Pat Morita.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And then the dialogue was kind of stilted and didn't really have any kind of flow like it did in that scene. But it's not supposed to. That's kind of their first encounter, isn't it?

[A]

Yes. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So there should be a little tentative. Exactly.

[C]

Yeah. And I thought I tanked it. And on the drive home, I was like, all right, let's just park that and just do better next time, you know? And I get to Glennis Liberty's apartment in Santa Monica. She was my very first agent. Right. Who actually got her agent's license because I decided that, like, I was gonna become an actor, you know, and she was a friend of my mom's, but she worked for Pollock and Redford. And, you know, she knew her way around. And so we would usually have like a chalk talk at the end of the day of auditions and stuff like that. And she was on the street, like looking for me, and I thought somebody had died. And I pull up and she like runs right up to me and she's like crying and babbling and just so excited, I couldn't believe it. And I'm like, slow down, slow down, slow down. What's going on? And she said, they need you in karate training on Monday.

[A]

You got the part.

[C]

I'm like, well, hold on, today's Friday. And she's like, yes, you're gonna be the Karate Kid. It's like the biggest film in town, right? And I'm like, okay, but I have to. I got the thing with the bear. I got the predator thing.

[A]

And where is that shooting? That shooting in Budapest.

[C]

In Budapest? Yeah. And not like when it's cool to be in Budapest, you know? And so she said, well, I'm sure there's, you know, I'm sure there's a way to get you out of that. And, you know, what should I tell him? And I said, I just tell him that maybe if we could just have the weekend, you know. So I took the weekend and went to dad and I said, hey, I got this amazing opportunity, like a career making move. This giant movie that I think is, you know, it's got hit written all over it, you know, it's a game changer. And he says. And I said, so help me out. Give me like a cool way to get out of the grizzly thing. And he didn't even. He didn't even offer anything in that regard. He just said, well, so you gave them your word, right? And I'm like, the grizzly people? Yeah. I'm like, well, yeah, but it's the thing with the bear and Budapest. It's totally forgettable. Anyone can get eaten by a bear. Dad, right? And he's like. He's like.

[A]

I narrowly beat out a side of ham.

[C]

Exactly. And he said, it's not about that. It's not about that. It's about that. You know, one big film is in this business is not going to carry you as far as, you know, being known as a man of their word. So I had to sell that to Glennis, you know, and she was like, yeah, have you lost your mind? And then after a while, she agreed with Pop.

[A]

And so how was it when Karate Kid comes out and it's huge, was that must have stung a Little bit.

[C]

A lot of it.

[A]

Did you go and.

[C]

A lot of it.

[A]

Did you go and see it in the theater with the bear? I picture both of you. Oh, you fucked up. It's just got a big paw. You're taking more than your share. You're splitting up.

[D]

They offered me the part of Miyagi.

[A]

The bear could have been Miyagi. This is great. The bear was supposed to be Miyagi. You were supposed to be Ralph Macchio. The whole thing.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

But he went with, oh, everyone just sees me as the thing that chases people and eats because I'm a bear. But anyway, I saw in the movie.

[C]

Theater, like, on a Friday night, and it was interesting. It was a strange mashup of intense jealousy. Right. And missed opportunity, all that stuff. But add to that relief. There was a relief. And I don't know how to explain what that was about. I think Ralph was so freaking good in that movie. Right. That I was looking at ways like, would I have. How would I have done that differently? How would I have done that at all? And I was kind of like, okay, I think I kind of dodged a bullet here. I don't think they would have filmed the whole movie with me. I think it would have been like, okay, cool. No, you gave it a hell of an effort, kid. But, you know.

[A]

But also, I've had that experience at my age now where I can look back, the things that I missed out on that I was convinced were essential to me moving ahead. That devastated me at the time.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

Now I see them and I go, well, they don't fit this arc that I have at all.

[C]

Interesting.

[A]

They just don't. Yeah. And you could not if I got in a time machine. On my way here today, there was some street work, so I had to pass my old apartment on Cochrane. I had a $380 a month apartment, 1986. I lived on the first floor, way in the back. I looked out on an alley, and I passed that apartment. I always slow down if I'm in that neighborhood and look at that apartment.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Because it was gonna sound weird, but I almost feel like there's a ghost of me from 1985 that I used to sit on the steps of that apartment complex and think, like, how am I gonna make this thing work? I don't know. And so every now and then, I'm like, I'm on my way to go talk to Charlie Sheen, and I've had a pretty good run, but I'll stop and sort of honor that moment at that Apartment at that time. If I could talk to that guy now and say, trust me, the gig that you, where it's between you and another guy to go work, be a writer performer for Letterman and you didn't get it, and they only hire like one person every three years and that you're not gonna be on that boat, I still think that kid would have said, you're out of your mind. That was my chance and it's over. I'm not gonna make it right. And I've had like nine of those, you know, but then you look at it later on and you go, no, you weren't supposed to do Karate Kidd.

[C]

Wasn't supposed to happen. No, no.

[A]

And, and, cause that traject, that choice changes other choices. So then you're not gonna get Platoon, you're not gonna get.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

You're not gonna get Wall street, you're. None of those things happen if you do.

[C]

Probably not. Probably not. And following that amazing in theater experience with the Karate Kid as we know it, I didn't work for eight months after that. And then I started writing stories about, okay, gosh, maybe they've tried to blackball me because I said no to their big, their big event franchise film. Yeah, it, it, it just. So that sort of compounded the, the, the, you know, the funk that, that, that, that left me in, you know.

[A]

And you did contemplate, like, I could be a cinematographer, I could be an ad, like I could get into this business in another way if this doesn't work.

[C]

Sure. That was more really, because I had done all of those jobs in our Super 8 world, you know, I'm not saying I did them well, but I had enough knowledge about, you know, what happened on both sides of the camera, you know, and that was sort of the pitch to my parents at the breakfast table that first morning of summer after, you know, being kicked out of high school. I kind of sold them on this thing. And it's in the book. I don't know if it's in the doc, but I said, look, I'm gonna give the acting thing a shot. You know, I'm just gonna spend this first summer of freedom just auditioning and just see where that takes me. If that doesn't work out, then kind of not a big lie, but the medium sized lie that I told them was that I'll go to film school and I'll learn how to, you know, I'll be an editor or director or cinematographer. And, you know, and so I just wanted them to feel like there was a Backup plan that wasn't the same one that dad had struggled with for so long in his early years, you know, and they bought it. They bought it. You know, they thought, okay, yeah, he.

[A]

Wants to be a botanist. Did. Oh, you also. And you talk about this. You had to sell your dad on changing your name.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Which was a moment.

[C]

It was a moment. Yeah. And I just.

[A]

You know your original name.

[C]

Carlos Estevez.

[A]

Right.

[C]

But Carlos had already been Charlie from in. Throughout childhood.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Because we had an Uncle Carlos, Dad's brother. And so some of them would yell, hey, Carlos. And we both, like, come in the room and that. You know, we had to put a stop to that. Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

There's only room for one Carlos.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And.

[C]

And seniority rules in that moment. Yes. So I became Charlie, and then I was a Steve all the way through high school. And then when I made the change or when I decided to give this thing a shot, I sat with him and I said, I really want to use Sheen. It's got a better ring to it. Emilio's already using Estevez. And that way, you've got both bookends of your heritage represented out in the world.

[A]

You're a good salesman.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

You are so good.

[C]

I'm in the wrong business.

[A]

You and I should start an advertising agency.

[C]

I'd love to. I would love to. Yeah.

[A]

I just. I just. Yeah, and I meant you say to your dad, like, I can see it in lights. Pop.

[C]

Right. Exactly.

[A]

Charlie Sheen. You weren't wrong.

[C]

You know, But, I mean, I just. It was. Plus, it was easier to say, you know, what's your name? I'm Charlie Sheen. Even though when I walked in here, it stumped me.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And that's, like, on camera. That's gonna be on, like, YouTube.

[A]

Yeah, I know. I know. You're screwed.

[C]

Hi, my name is.

[A]

Well, I'm. I don't want to take all your time. I'm going to say this first of all. You said you wanted to hand me something, but I don't know if you still do. Maybe you changed your mind.

[C]

I know. I absolutely did not change my mind. You and I had a banter that I think ran over the course of a couple years, and it was during Spin City. Remember? I was on the Zone diet, and I was, like, super thin and, like, eating nothing, but I had this thing on Friday nights that was a treat to myself that was called the McFlurry. Do you remember this?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And we had great runs about that.

[A]

We had. Yes. The McFlurry was important. To us.

[C]

Yes. And then you said you would always say, well, has McDonald's reached out and, like, offered you free food for life or anything great like that? I'm like, no.

[A]

Unbelievable.

[C]

Yeah. And then you would make jokes like, well, why are you out here talking about McFlurry? Why aren't you saying names like Porsche and Ed's Diamond Store?

[A]

And remember all this stuff? Yes, yes.

[C]

So shortly after that, this shows up in the mail. Like, no joke. The guy from Arby's. The guy from Arby's. Bill Arby. You know him?

[A]

Very same.

[C]

He sent me that.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

And Arby's free food for life card. Yes.

[A]

I don't know if we can push in on that or, you know. Yes. This is. And it's signed on the back.

[C]

Yeah. I've been carrying that around for, like, 20 years.

[A]

I love that you have this. And also.

[C]

Yeah. And you're the reason I have it.

[A]

You're welcome. You're welcome. And can I say one other thing? This. I want to know. Do you go to Arby's and order everything? And then when they go, wow, so cool to meet. Oh, and by the way, I'm not paid, and you're. You're driving, like, the nicest car in the world.

[C]

Oh, man. You know, here. Here. Here's the good news. I've never used it. I've never used it before.

[A]

No offense to Arby's, but, you know, I love Arby's.

[C]

I think Arby's, it hasn't changed. And that's good. They do have the meats, but I. I just. I. I imagined, yeah, there'd be a line behind me and just what you said, and the guy brings all the stuff, and I'm like, well, I got this thing. And then he's like, okay, well, there's some paperwork.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And then I'm, like, filling stuff out. People are recognizing tmz, shooting it, right? And they're like.

[A]

And then he's like, what? So that's two shakes, three roast beans, like in bananas. Yeah, exactly. Who had the. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

So I've never used it, but I saved it. And I don't know. I just had it all these years.

[A]

Just hang on to it.

[C]

It survived the car.

[A]

You know where that needs to go? The trunk of your car.

[C]

There it is right next to the BPX 45.

[A]

I've got something you need to see. A gun? No, no. You can take the honest road to.

[C]

Free armies or the dishonest road.

[A]

We can take two ways I rob you of these corned beef sandwiches or I get them for free.

[C]

Either way. Either way, I'm leaving here with the meats.

[A]

Yeah. Wow, Charlie Sheen, this is what I'll say. This is one of my favorite sessions. I mean, it's up there in the pantheon. You always, since I first met you, a delight to talk to a really funny person.

[C]

Thank you. Likewise.

[A]

You have been very honest about your struggles and the craziness. And, you know, I went downstairs and you got here and I just. I told you, we hugged and I said, I'm really glad you're still here.

[C]

Wow, thank you.

[A]

Because we lose all these people. We lose these beautiful people. We lose these really funny, wonderful and people. We lose so many people.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

And I'm just very grateful that you're just still with us.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

And go with God. What the hell was that?

[D]

You're very religious today.

[C]

It was powerful.

[A]

We'll change it.

[D]

Go with Satan.

[A]

Satan. Go with Satan.

[C]

I already went.

[A]

I know.

[C]

I already went with Satan.

[A]

Satan's like, enough with him. He moved in and wouldn't leave. Go with Arby's. Go with Arby's. Yeah. Charlie, seriously, thank you so much for being here.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

This was great.

[C]

It's an honor.

[D]

Conan o' Brien needs a friend. With Conan o', Brien, Sonam of Session and Matt Gourley produced by me, Matt Gourley executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross and Nick Leow. Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples, engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Bautista and Brit Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign [e-mail] Conan and if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O' Brien needs a friend. Wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

[A]

Explore the world's hidden wonders on the Atlas Obscura podcast. A village in India where everyone's name is a song. A boiling river in the Amazon. A spacecraft cemetery in the middle of the ocean. Every day, the Atlas Obscura podcast will blow your mind in 15 minutes. You can find it on the SiriusXM app, Pandora, or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode.

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