Tom Holland and Dominic Sandbrook of The Rest Is History Podcast

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Episode: Tom Holland and Dominic Sandbrook of The Rest Is History
Date: October 20, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features Tom Holland and Dominic Sandbrook, the acclaimed historians and co-hosts of the phenomenally popular podcast The Rest Is History. Conan, an avid listener himself, engages the duo in a conversation that ranges from the joys and absurdities of history podcasting to the quirks of British and American culture, and the importance of humor and perspective in retelling history. The episode is filled with Conan's signature wit, playful transatlantic jabs, and sharp insights into how people relate to the past and present.
Tone: Charismatic, irreverent, intellectually playful.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Conan’s Admiration and Podcast Jealousy

Timestamp: 08:25–09:56

• Conan confesses his addiction to The Rest Is History, declaring, “I have to concede that you have the greatest podcast” (09:11, Conan).
• He jokes that meeting Tom and Dominic is as exciting as meeting George Harrison or Paul McCartney.

2. Humor as a Lens on History

Timestamp: 10:12–13:12

• Conan: Praises The Rest Is History for combining scholarship with comedy, especially discussing grim topics like WWI.
• Dominic counters: “The story is the way in always. And the characters, but the humor emerges naturally. So we don’t try to impose the humor on the story.” (11:24)
• Tom expands: “There’s a case for seeing the whole sweep of human history as a very dark comedy, because history essentially is the record of people not getting what they want...” (12:03)

3. British & American Obsessions: Facial Hair and Stereotypes

Timestamp: 13:26–17:06

• Playful banter about generals’ beards and how Americans “had great beards” during the Civil War, with Conan saying, “I’m not going to sit here and listen to you run our beards down.” (14:33)
• Discussion of historical figures’ vanities (e.g., Custer’s hair loss).

4. Why History (and Its Personalities) Still Matter

Timestamp: 26:40–32:59

• Talk shifts to historical heroes: Nelson cited as a favorite, and Dominic confesses a “torn dress...for Richard Nixon. I like Richard Nixon. I find him very entertaining.” (27:05)
• Conan shares a story of Nixon watching and enjoying his first TV episode, quoting Nixon: “I like it. It’s madcap.” (29:41)

5. Relating to History’s Larger-Than-Life Figures

Timestamp: 32:13–39:35

• Discussion of Churchill’s complexity and Churchill-isms.
• Tom: “The further back in time you go, the harder it is to relate to people because they are so different.”
• Admiration for Abraham Lincoln—“the one figure that is more impressive the more I learn about him.” (31:07, Conan)
• Playful debate on Mary Todd Lincoln (“she was a monster”—Dominic 31:33; Conan pushes back).

6. British Political Icons: Thatcher and Churchill

Timestamp: 33:33–39:48

• Debate on Thatcher’s reputation in Britain; Dominic details, “She was a very strident and partisan politician... she feels she has to become harder than hard to prove that she’s not a soft and sensitive woman. All of which maybe makes her quite unlikable.” (35:58)
• On Churchill: Tom and Dominic credit his singular historic contribution—refusing to appease Hitler in WWII. “He got one massive thing right, and I think essentially that cancels everything he got wrong.” (37:21, Tom)

7. History’s Value: Perspective Over Doom

Timestamp: 44:57–50:01

• Conan: “The role that history plays for me... is it often reminds me that we’ve been here before and that the history of mankind is a lot of things constantly going wrong...”
• Dominic: “Most people alive today live longer, healthier, more comfortable, warmer... all of that kind of thing. That’s not to be complacent, but you’d rather be here than at any previous point in history.” (45:51)
• Tom: “The other thing is dentistry... and antibiotics.” (46:18)

8. Music & Pop Culture: Beatles vs. Stones

Timestamp: 50:01–51:07

• Conan presses the ultimate British pop question:
  • Tom: “Beatles. 100%.” (50:14)
  • Dominic: “Stones.”
• Conan: “Well, I have to tell you, Dominic, you’re wrong.” (50:17)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Podcasting and Ego

“For a while, I believed that I had the greatest podcast in the world...And then one day...I heard someone mention this podcast called The Rest Is History. ...I have to concede that you have the greatest podcast.”
— Conan O’Brien (09:11)

On the Comedy of History

“Even the very darkest episodes, it’s a comedy in the sense that Dante wrote the Divine Comedy. ...Sometimes you have to laugh so that you don’t weep, I guess.”—Tom Holland (12:03)

On Living with History’s Flaws

“He got one massive thing right, and I think essentially that cancels everything he got wrong.”—Tom Holland on Churchill (37:21)

On British Self-Parody

“She was a very strident and partisan politician... she had very little sense of humor and she was harsh, you know, hard company. Difficult company.”—Dominic Sandbrook (35:58)

On Living Through Historical Catastrophes

“You think you’re doom scrolling?...Remember there’s not sand in your bread.”—Conan O’Brien (47:47)

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Segment Timestamps

• 08:25–09:56: Conan’s history podcast fandom and humility/humor about podcasting
• 10:12–13:12: Discussion about humor in history and Blackadder/Python influences
• 13:26–17:06: Beards and British/American stereotypes
• 26:40–32:59: Favorite historical figures, Nixon anecdotes, and animatronic presidents
• 32:13–39:35: Relating to “scary” historical personalities, Lincoln, Mary Lincoln’s reputation
• 33:33–39:48: Thatcher, Churchill, political legacy in Britain
• 44:57–50:01: History’s value—perspective, comfort, progress, and not romanticizing the past
• 50:01–51:07: Beatles vs. Stones debate

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Chemistry & Banter

• The episode excels in spirited, friendly antagonism—challenges over beards, pudding, musical taste, and Anglo-American quirks.
• Conan expresses genuine fanboy energy, recalling details from dozens of The Rest Is History episodes.
• Tom Holland and Dominic Sandbrook balance erudition with self-deprecating wit, holding their own against Conan’s rapid-fire jokes.

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Closing Thoughts

This episode offers a whirlwind, joyous dive into history, humor, and the power of narrative to shape contemporary perspectives. Whether debating the merits of Mary Lincoln’s spoon theft, poking fun at Churchill’s own bombast, or reassuring anxious listeners that “things have been much worse,” all three remind us that history is not just the study of the past, but a vital means to make sense of the present—with laughter, humility, and copious references to facial hair.

Essential listen for:

• Fans of irreverent history
• Lovers of comedy with a brain
• Podcast listeners fascinated by British-American differences and synergy

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Further Listening

Recommended Segment:
History’s Value: Perspective Over Doom (44:57–50:01)—for a timely, encouraging discussion about how history can help us cope with the sense of crisis in the modern world:

“Most people alive today live longer, healthier, more comfortable... That’s not to be complacent, but you'd rather be here than at any previous point in history.” (45:51, Dominic Sandbrook)

Don’t miss:
The Beatles vs. Stones clash (50:01)
Banter about pudding and beards (13:26–15:33)

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Transcript

[Conan O'Brien]

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[Tom Holland]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'm sick of people saying Aruba tropical island. No, it's more than that. I'm passionate about this. The desert climate means beaches and cacti. That means more than one cactus. It's like the ocean and the desert had a perfect baby. The weather, always perfect. Sunny skies, cooling breezes, no jib jabs, no jubjubs. Aruba's got postcard worthy white sand beaches like Eagle beach. Just name TripAdvisor's best beach of 2025. Oh, snap. Can you snap that any better? You don't think you can. Plus Aruba's got over 100 nationalities. 100 nationalities. It's like the UN incredible cuisine, locals so friendly you'll wonder if they're confusing you for someone important. I'm telling you, when you go to Aruba, you feel like a king and or queen. Show Aruba some love and Aruba will love you right back. Plan your next [e-mail]. having the right people in your corner to support you in life makes all the difference. Trust me, I've been there. The person could be the friend who goes with you to test drive a new car, but it could also be the State Farm agent who helps you choose coverage for that car. Let State Farm handle the coverage parts of life so you can focus on the fun parts of life, like taking your new car out on the open road. You don't have to worry about the coverage parts. Truth, baby, you betcha. Go [e-mail] or use the award winning app. That app won an award. No surprise. To get help from one of their local agents. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Hi, my name is Dominic Sambrook and I feel surprisingly aroused about being Conan o' Brien's friend.

[Conan O'Brien]

You understand that?

[Tom Holland]

Hi, my name is Tom Holland and I feel like chuffed about being Conan o' Brien's friend.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay, looking that up now on UK Slang. Fall is here. Hear the yell back to school. Ring the bell Brand new shoes Walk and lose, Climb the fence Books and pens I can tell that we are gonna be friends Yes, I can tell that we are gonna be friends hey there. Welcome to Conan o' Brien Needs a friend. Shocking, shocking revelation today. Sonam of Session is not with us. Her chair, like Tiny Tim's little stool in the corner, is empty. Just a crutch. She's not here. No. Instead it's just Matt and I, which is nice because this is a Different dynamic for us. There's none of that. Her braying laugh.

[Matt Gourley]

Yeah, she's a nice icebreaker, though, because isn't it a little awkward? It's just you and me, you know?

[Conan O'Brien]

Reminds me of an old Norm MacDonald joke. He said, yeah, I went to. Went home for Thanksgiving and saw the family, and my dad and I accidentally made eye contact and I thought, God damn it. I relate to that. So now we have to look in each other's eyes now. You can't. You can't do it.

[Matt Gourley]

No, I can't do that.

[Conan O'Brien]

I can't do that.

[Matt Gourley]

But do you know where Sona is?

[Conan O'Brien]

I don't. No one told me where she went.

[Matt Gourley]

You're love this.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay.

[Matt Gourley]

She is speaking, I think a featured guest speaker at an assistance convention.

[Conan O'Brien]

No, she's not. Is that a bit? I swear to God, this is not a bit.

[Matt Gourley]

This is true.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, they're. I can just see your eyes. No, I'm glowing. Is it a how to or like a cautionary tale? I don't. You know.

[Matt Gourley]

No, I think she is, you know.

[Conan O'Brien]

Is it a scared straight? She turns the chair around backwards and sits down. Look, guys, if you want to be an assistant, don't do what I did.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

Uh, wow. So she's telling people how to be an assistant?

[Matt Gourley]

Ostensibly. I. I don't know if it's a Q and A or she's doing a speech about it, but she is.

[Conan O'Brien]

Could be a trial. War crimes.

[Matt Gourley]

Maybe it's an entrapment.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's like Eichmann. She's in a glass booth. She's wearing headphones. People are coming up and testifying against her.

[Matt Gourley]

We may never see her again.

[Conan O'Brien]

No, we're not going to see her because I know what the verdict's gonna be. Wow, that's incredible. She also found out recently, before going.

[Dominic Sambrook]

To this, that it's for a bunch.

[Conan O'Brien]

Of tech company assistants. Yeah, so it's not even like industry entertainment assistance.

[Dominic Sambrook]

This is specifically tech.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, this is a disaster. I mean, I wish we could find out where it is and quickly drive over there in a van. Let's find out when she's back. Remind me we have to dig down deep on what happened.

[Matt Gourley]

We'll do a whole segment on it. Yeah, we gotta find out more.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's just astounding to me. But, you know, we love Arsona. We do miss her.

[Matt Gourley]

We do. Rest in peace.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, well.

[Tom Holland]

No, please.

[Conan O'Brien]

She's fine. You always go to write to rest in peace. Well, that was a good meal. Yep. Rest in peace. No. How are you oh. This is a chance for us to really drill down. How are you, Matt Goerley, as a person? How's your life?

[Matt Gourley]

It's good.

[Conan O'Brien]

Look at me. I'm right here. No, I can't do it. Look at me right past you. Oh, wow.

[Matt Gourley]

I'm good.

[Dominic Sambrook]

I'm good.

[Conan O'Brien]

Thank you.

[Matt Gourley]

How are you?

[Conan O'Brien]

You didn't say anything, and then you put it right back on me. How am I gonna find out about you? What do you wanna know?

[Matt Gourley]

I'm an open book.

[Conan O'Brien]

You aren't. You aren't an open book. How are things at home? How's everything going?

[Matt Gourley]

Good, good. My daughter's cracking me up daily.

[Conan O'Brien]

How old is she now?

[Matt Gourley]

She's gonna be four in well, by the time this comes out.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay, yeah, very good.

[David Melmid]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

This doesn't air for three years, so that's great.

[Matt Gourley]

She's really funny. Yeah, she's a character, man. She rules the house. She's a, like, beta to the rest of the world, but it's just horrible. Alpha to me.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's what happens. They're, like, lovely to other people, and then they come home and they're absolute Mussolinis.

[Matt Gourley]

You're not kidding.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

Even when it comes down to play, like, she gives me my lines for when we're playing. She dictates them to me.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it sounds like you're miserable at home.

[Matt Gourley]

I'm having some struggles.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, feel free to, you know, talk to me anytime about anything that's going on in your life.

[Dominic Sambrook]

I'd rather not.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'd rather you didn't either. Okay. All right. You know what you should do? Schedule it with David hopping. Okay. Now there's an assistant.

[Matt Gourley]

I could talk to him, you know.

[Conan O'Brien]

Who'S not going to go to an assistance convention. Is David hopping?

[Tom Holland]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

You know, how are you? I got to ask David.

[David Melmid]

Okay.

[Conan O'Brien]

David keeps my schedule and he tells me how I am. I'm doing very well, thank you. And I am going to head east to New York very shortly to help. This is a new experience for me, promote a film that I do. I know.

[Matt Gourley]

This is exciting.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. And this is a new thing for me to say. You gotta go check out my picture. See? I mean, that's nothing I've aspired to or ever thought would happen.

[Matt Gourley]

You should come on this podcast, I.

[Conan O'Brien]

Should come on this podcast. We should tape. You know what we should do? We should tape me talking and asking questions, and then switch it around and I'll do the other side.

[Matt Gourley]

It's a good idea. Actually, no, I do A video program?

[Conan O'Brien]

No, I mean, actually, it's an idea that I said. No, I really. Definition is a good idea.

[Matt Gourley]

It's.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

It's an idea that I said.

[Conan O'Brien]

Nice tune, Mozart. Not necessary. Not necessary. God, what a prick. I don't know why anybody talks to me. Oh, right.

[Matt Gourley]

That's why I'm trying to get out of it.

[Conan O'Brien]

You're being paid. Um, yeah.

[Matt Gourley]

No, I do like talking to you. And I can look you in the eye and I am happy.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, you're blinking in Morse code. Please save me. Yeah. So that's my story. I'm in the pictures.

[Matt Gourley]

Let's end this. We should get to this, because this is a really fun.

[Dominic Sambrook]

No.

[David Melmid]

Okay.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay.

[Matt Gourley]

I want to. Will you read the intro, for Christ's sake?

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay. Wow. Religious. My guests today are two historians who co host one of the most successful history podcasts in the world. The Rest is History. I listen to these gentlemen all the time. They're always in my ear, and they are brilliant. Tom Holland and Dominic Sambrook.

[David Melmid]

Welcome.

[Conan O'Brien]

Gentlemen. I'm gonna begin by saying that it is quite a comedown for me to have you on the podcast, and I'll explain why. I have a very large ego, and for a while, I believed that I had the greatest podcast in the world. I really did. I really thought. I cannot be touched. No one can come close. And then one day several years ago, I heard someone mention this podcast called the Rest Is History. And I'm a history buff. I listened to one episode. I listened to two. I listened to three, and four. I've now listened to possibly 300 or 400 of your 800. I'm working my way through, and I have to concede that you have the greatest podcast.

[Dominic Sambrook]

That's gracious.

[Conan O'Brien]

You will always have the greatest podcast.

[Tom Holland]

I'm loving this podcast there is.

[Conan O'Brien]

I am. I am an addict. I'm here to confess my addiction, and I. You're in my ears all the time. And whenever people ask me, what podcast do you listen to? I don't give them a list. I say, it's the Rest Is History With Tom and Dominic. I was starstruck when I heard your voices. And I was in the room upstairs in my Larchmont. This is a palace. Really?

[Tom Holland]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

I heard your voices. I couldn't believe that you were here.

[David Melmid]

So.

[Conan O'Brien]

Not since I met George Harrison back at Saturday Night Live back in the day have I been this excited.

[Tom Holland]

And you met Paul McCartney.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes, I've met Paul McCartney.

[Dominic Sambrook]

But we're more exciting.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, you guys are. No, no, I'M gonna put you on the same level, okay?

[Dominic Sambrook]

What's that, kid?

[Conan O'Brien]

You're on the same level. So, gentlemen, thank you so much for being here. Really. Thank you so much for having us.

[Tom Holland]

Thanks.

[Conan O'Brien]

All the time we have. It's been lovely having you.

[Tom Holland]

It's fine. You've said enough for us.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah. Let's end it there. It's not gonna get better. I love history. And my favorite thing about your show is that the history is brilliant. And I feel it's very well researched and you're both very knowledgeable. But it's funny. And I'm a big believer in keeping two opposing ideas in your head at the same time. You guys will talk about some of the grimmest things in the history of the world, like World War I, but there'll be sections where you can't stop laughing. Yeah, and I'm laughing with you. And I love that, because both things are true. World War I might be the worst thing that ever happened to humanity. It's absolutely terrible. And a war that was fought for no reason. And then I will find myself. You two will get talking about the Kaiser and what a ridiculous man the Kaiser was. And I will be crying, I'm laughing so hard along with you. Is humor the way into this?

[Dominic Sambrook]

No, actually. So the story is the way in for me, anyway.

[Conan O'Brien]

Did you disagree with me?

[Dominic Sambrook]

I did, yeah. Let's set out this full right away.

[Conan O'Brien]

Can you explain where you are right now? You're in America. Former colonist. Okay, go ahead, Go ahead.

[Dominic Sambrook]

You've actually got 250 years of back taxes to pay.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, yes.

[David Melmid]

Come on.

[Dominic Sambrook]

You knew that was coming.

[Conan O'Brien]

I knew it was gonna.

[Dominic Sambrook]

I think the story is the way in always. And the characters, but the humor emerges naturally. So we don't. We don't try to impose the humor on the story. But, you know, you're doing the Kaiser, who's a ridiculous man who's coming up with all these mad schemes to invade places and whatnot and is basically smoldering with fury because he thinks his British relatives despise him and that's what drives him. And you've got all these generals with gigantic moustaches and they've all got emphysema.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes.

[Dominic Sambrook]

And all of that. I mean, that's true to the history. It's not us imposing it on it. And if you. You can blind yourself to that and say, no, history's terribly serious and very desiccated, but the humour is part of the human condition.

[Tom Holland]

I think that there's a case for Seeing the whole sweep of human history as a very dark comedy, because history essentially is the record of people not getting what they want, people overinflating their own sense of worth. And so there is a kind of inherent strain of comedy that runs throughout almost every period of history that you look at. And I guess that even the very darkest episodes, it's a comedy in the sense that Dante wrote the Divine Comedy. It's the sense that sometimes you have to laugh so that you don't weep, I guess.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. I think, to me, reference one of my favorite British comedies of all time, Blackadder. There's a sense of so much of the humor from Blackadder and also from the Python films was just Bring out yout Dead. Bring out yout Dead in Holy Grail. And so much of the comedy in Life of Brian, the British are uniquely very good at doing this. Seeing the dark and the absurdly comical at the exact same moment.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

And holding both molecules together as they bounce off each other.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Yeah. People are funny, right?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Human beings behave ridiculous.

[Conan O'Brien]

Many aren't, by the way, and I have footage to prove it.

[Tom Holland]

But often the people who take themselves incredibly serious this seriously are the funniest. And history is, you know, the. The great figures of history invariably take themselves very, very seriously.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes. Yeah. I mean, you have your obsessions. You are obsessed with facial hair, and you will.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Is that unusual?

[Tom Holland]

Who is.

[Conan O'Brien]

No. And. And what I love is. You'll talk about. Again, I'll go back to the World War I example, but this goes throughout your entire podcast. Any subject you take up, if someone has absurd facial hair.

[David Melmid]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

You get to start cackling. Yeah. And. And. And most of the generals you introduce, Russian, British, French, anyone from Austria. Austria, Hungary. Hungary, you are, you know, Serbia, Croatia, you're. You're saying, oh, my God. And this next one. And insane. And this beard is. Is. Is greater than the previous beard.

[Tom Holland]

I mean, now you mention it, I'm thinking, actually, the Americans four, they. They have very poor moustache action in it, don't they? So we've got to. Obviously, we've got a bit of a wait for the Americans to arrive.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

They turn late for a world war.

[Dominic Sambrook]

They peaked too early, though. No, the Civil War, they've got that place at Beards.

[Conan O'Brien]

Civil War. We had great beards.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

And, I mean, I'm not going to sit here and listen to you run our beards down.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

We are huge admirers of civil war.

[Conan O'Brien]

19Th century civil war. I mean, insane. Our Secretary of War Stanton had an insane Beard. Several men were living in it.

[Tom Holland]

Your current secretary, Estate for war, which I gather is now what it's called.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes.

[Tom Holland]

He's banning facial hair.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes.

[Tom Holland]

Does he not know his history?

[Conan O'Brien]

Pete Hegseth said, I won't have. There'll be no beards. There'll be no individuation. There'll be no. And he said, we won't have any hippies cut your hair, shave your beard. And we know he's a true patriot because he wears an American flag tie, which is what every true patriot does. And he went after anyone wearing beards. And I had the same thought, which is, excuse me, some of our greatest generals had incredible beards back in the day and they did not affect their fighting ability at all.

[Tom Holland]

If you're Custer, very long hair.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes, yes. Long golden locks.

[Dominic Sambrook]

They were thinning though, weren't they, when.

[Conan O'Brien]

He got scalped, actually.

[Dominic Sambrook]

What went wrong?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes.

[Dominic Sambrook]

He was trying to compensate for his loss of virility.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes, yes. Do you think that because Custer was losing his hair, he felt I need to attack this village that's 100 times larger than my fighting?

[Tom Holland]

But also, I mean, imagine the surprise of the brave who scalped him.

[Conan O'Brien]

Disappointment. Huge disappointment.

[Tom Holland]

They called him long hair. So here's long hair. Oh my God.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh my God. He's losing it.

[Dominic Sambrook]

He looks like Larry David.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah, he had Larry David should play Custer in that final battle when a hundred thousand hostile natives come over the hill. He should frown and you hear.

[Tom Holland]

He loves the civil war, doesn't he?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, he does.

[Tom Holland]

There's the famous photo of him with his daughter.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes.

[Tom Holland]

Looking at Gettysburg.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. I'll be listening to you. And we're on Custer now. So this is a good example. I'm listening to your long multi episodes about the. You know, who is this Custer? What's happening? How did this whole thing come about? How do we get to this battle? The pre story and beautifully told. And then you're talking about one of the people who's fighting alongside Custer underneath him, Benteen. You two, you despise Benteen?

[Dominic Sambrook]

No, Benteen's a great man.

[Conan O'Brien]

I thought you hated Benteen.

[Tom Holland]

He's very like Dominic.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, well, I hated him. So by extension I hate you.

[Tom Holland]

So your opinions on that may be.

[Conan O'Brien]

I now hate. I was just sad. I now hate Dominic because I'm not a fan of Bentin. What about you?

[Tom Holland]

What was. Well, I obviously respect and you know the line was.

[Dominic Sambrook]

I read it out on the podcast. The line from the book. It said beneath his chubby cheeked cordiality lurked a cold and sinister intelligence.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's you.

[David Melmid]

Yeah.

[Dominic Sambrook]

And I read that answer to Tom, and Tom said, that's not you. And then I was offended by that. I read it to my wife, and she said, you're literally describing yourself.

[Conan O'Brien]

Right. So the villain, one of the villains, or as history has often miscast him.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Oh, he's not a villain. He's a great man.

[Conan O'Brien]

Please. I'm saying, as history has miscast him, he's often been seen as the villain of the battle of. But you say, no, this means terrific. I like the cut of his jib.

[Dominic Sambrook]

I do like the cut of his jib. So initially, he lets himself down a bit, doesn't he, by being difficult and not helping Custer. But then at the end, when they're trapped on the hill with Major Reno.

[Tom Holland]

Major Reno, who's in a massive funk.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Who'S sobbing and has to be trussed a hog.

[Conan O'Brien]

You know, I do. I will say I had sympathy for Reno. And if anyone's lost at this point, we're talking about the Battle of Little Bighorn.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Everybody's lost.

[Conan O'Brien]

And. And, please. This is my podcast, and these are the only two people left in the world that I really want to talk to, and I'm taking this ship down right now. But one of the reasons I sympathize with Reno is I think if I'm ever in a difficult situation, a life and death situation, I will lose my nerve and I will have to be trussed up like a hog by my friends to keep myself from hurting my.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Yeah, yeah. This is when you described. You compared Reno to yourself. Do you remember?

[Tom Holland]

Yeah, I said I would run away.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Yeah, you said you compared him to yourself at our live shows.

[David Melmid]

Yeah.

[Dominic Sambrook]

So, yeah, Tom has to be trussed up like a hog before our live shows because he's gibbering with nerves, whereas I, having behaved poorly all day.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes.

[Tom Holland]

Then calculating intelligence kicks in.

[Conan O'Brien]

This is. I mean, so first of all, I think I'm more in the Tom camp.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Right.

[Conan O'Brien]

I will be gibbering. It's a word I love.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Were you gibbering before your shows? Before your talk shows?

[Conan O'Brien]

I gibber all day long. I don't think you understand.

[Dominic Sambrook]

You're tripping during them.

[Conan O'Brien]

I speak in tongues. I have whatever Irish disease we have where we speak mostly in Babel. Okay. That's me all day long. And then they occasionally record it. And we seem to be able to sell ads.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Okay.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's what's happened.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

I love the podcast. I want to say my only. My only problem is Occasionally, you two and I. And I understand why you're doing it. You're very proudly British. You will throw out the name of some minor member of Parliament in the late 80s or early 90s, and you'll both start cackling about Cecil Biddlebarter and you'll be giggling and I will be driving my car and I will turn it into the nearest tree, killing myself. I've been reincarnated many times. Oh, just rage that you two are having so much fun about Cecil Beetlebarter, and I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[Tom Holland]

So he will have very thick glasses, he'll have a kind of silvery hair.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

And he'll. He'll have dandruff.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Massive dandruff.

[Tom Holland]

He'll have a pinstripe suit. He'll look an utterly unmemorable figure. But he will have been insanely brave during the Second World War and taken out three German tanks, taken the MC contrast between them, and then he'll be.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Caught in a flat wearing stockings. Wearing stockings? Yeah. With a black bin laner and an orange in his mouth or something like that.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's here. The Naked Gun is now streaming on Paramount. So excited about this. Love the Naked Gun franchise. You know what? There's a lot of question. Can Liam Neeson do it? Can he take on the mantle of this incredible franchise? And the reviews are in. People think it's hilarious. It's a great film. I've seen it twice.

[Dominic Sambrook]

It's awesome.

[Conan O'Brien]

Finally, the world gets Liam Neeson as Frank Drebin Jr. Yes, the son of Lieutenant Drebin. Neeson is joined by Paul Walter Hauser, Pamela Anderson, Liza Koshy, Danny Houston, even WWE's Cody Rhodes. And the film's directed by Akiva Schaeffer, who's very talented. Fans are already calling the Naked Gun the funniest movie of the year. Now you can watch it at home, so you don't miss a single joke. Get your popcorn. What? The Naked Gun is now streaming on Paramount. Uncrustables are the best part of this sandwich. I mean, we've been thinking that. White as hell. Say it, right, Sona? Yeah, like, who needs a crust? You've been saying that since the day I met you 15 years ago. Sona, you said, who needs the crust? And I said, first of all, my name's Conan, you know? Anyway, it's the perfect grab and go for all of life's moments with unbeatable soft bread and a variety of flavors like, well, peanut butter and grape jelly. Peanut butter and strawberry jam. Hello. Peanut butter and raspberry spread and so much more. No mess, no prep, just thaw and eat. Yep, get them in the freezer aisle today. Fall us here. And that means fall clothes. I love fall clothes. Me too.

[Matt Gourley]

But this is something we really agree on.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, this is something we really got on because I like to cover as much of my body as possible and most people agree I should. Macy's Fall Fashion Guide is your one stop shop for the season's biggest trends curated by Macy's style experts. Think weekend in the country, the new boho and statement luxury. For her that means romantic flowy dresses from Cece, sheer looks from Inc. Luxe leather by Donna Karan and Karl Lagerfeld and bold animal prints from Anne Klein, Steve Madden and more for him. Well, Levi's bomber jackets, vintage inspired denim statement loafers and relaxed suiting from Hugo Boston. Michael Kors. Shop now@macy's.com or in store today. Okay, I have to ask how you two met because the chemistry between the two of you is perfection. And I. That's a big magic of the show. And I'm curious, how did these two. How did these two guys come into each other's orbit?

[Tom Holland]

We were thinking of lying about this.

[David Melmid]

Yeah.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Because we've. Yeah. So actually on the way in, Tabby, our producer said you need to make up a new origin story because it's not very good.

[Conan O'Brien]

We can. I'm happy with the lie if it's a good one.

[Dominic Sambrook]

No, it's not a good one. We haven't had time to think of one because we're not very imagining.

[Conan O'Brien]

Do you want me to think of one for you? Well, you're in combat together in the grenade. You're in Grenada, I'm guessing.

[David Melmid]

Right?

[Dominic Sambrook]

Grenada. And like when the Americans invaded.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

No, we're kicking the. We're fighting the Americans.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Surely on behalf of the Commonwealth.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Because the. You disgraced yourselves invading Grenada. You let yourselves down invading Grenada.

[Conan O'Brien]

How did we let ourselves down?

[Dominic Sambrook]

Because it's a British.

[Tom Holland]

British colony.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Yes. British colony.

[Conan O'Brien]

You needed a little help. I don't know, but this is good.

[Tom Holland]

Anyway, we didn't meet.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'm sick of. I mean, we've helped you out a few times, I believe.

[Tom Holland]

Late, right?

[Dominic Sambrook]

We.

[Conan O'Brien]

Hey. We show up late. Yes, we showed up late in World War I. You showed up late in World War II. Yeah, and. But that's the way we are. We like to show up late and I like to arrive late at a party because people notice me more. It's my ego. And I think that's what Americans love to do historically, is show up when the tide has almost turned, it's almost too late. And then we supply you with tons of mediocre equipment, but lots of it.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Yeah. Of course, the trouble with World War I is we were both on the wrong side, so we should have joined with the Germans to have a crack at the French. You smash the French once and for all.

[Conan O'Brien]

Now, let's talk about this. Dominic, you are so through and through a British citizen. You loathe the French and you're always going after them on the podcast.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I. I actually lived in France.

[Dominic Sambrook]

I speak French.

[Conan O'Brien]

Listen, I'm very impressed with. I love that you took the time to learn the language of the people you despise. You could be passive aggressive to them in their own tongue. Do you. Do you ever. Did you grow up? Is this just you playing a part, or is there real animosity there towards.

[Dominic Sambrook]

People probably initially playing a part, but it's entered. I've forgotten who I am. And it's entered.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah. The mask, the mas tuscas blended into your flesh.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes. Yes.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Yeah. I think.

[Conan O'Brien]

Beautiful.

[Dominic Sambrook]

You like the French.

[Tom Holland]

I do like the French.

[Conan O'Brien]

You don't have any. When that whole period when Napoleon's trying to, well, destroy the English islands, you're okay with that?

[Tom Holland]

I like them because I think they're. They're the coolest of enemies. They are a very, very classy enemy to have. And I think because we always beat them, that redounds to our credit. So, I mean, I wouldn't in any way underestimate the French.

[Conan O'Brien]

Right.

[Tom Holland]

They're a bit. I mean, for most of England's history and indeed Britain's history, they were much richer, much more powerful, much more sophisticated, and so the pleasure of thrashing them becomes all the sweeter.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, they do have those desserts.

[Tom Holland]

They do.

[Conan O'Brien]

Those desserts are fantastic.

[Tom Holland]

Yes.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I mean, show me. You have some. Great. I mean, your desserts are fine. Yeah, you have.

[Dominic Sambrook]

The French don't do a pudding, though, do they? They don't do a pudding.

[Tom Holland]

No, we do.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, yeah, but I don't think they want to do a pudding.

[Dominic Sambrook]

They do a tart.

[Conan O'Brien]

They're letting you have the pudding because, quite frankly, no one really wants a pudd.

[Dominic Sambrook]

No, no, you're wrong about that.

[Tom Holland]

I. I love a pudding.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Yeah, you gotta have a pudding.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay. Anyway, listen, I don't have to have a pudding. And. And you may think this is a cul de sac. We've gone Down. This is a dead end. I say I'm gonna go hard on this pudding thing. I think you guys have disgraced yourself with your puddings.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Okay.

[Conan O'Brien]

Wow. And there, there we go.

[Tom Holland]

This is punchy stuff.

[Dominic Sambrook]

It's unbelievable. I mean, I.

[Tom Holland]

The French, of course, would agree with you.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes. But that's the one. I jump in with the French on that one. You guys, you have your obsessions and I love that. And you also have your heroes, Dominic. I know for you it might be Admiral Lord Nelson. Is he your all time favorite? Who's your all time favorite? Because I want to get from both.

[Tom Holland]

Of you, I think for both of us. Nelson.

[Conan O'Brien]

Nelson.

[David Melmid]

Yeah.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Do you know I have a torn dress, to use a French word for Richard Nixon. I like Richard Nixon.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Dominic Sambrook]

I find him very entertaining.

[Conan O'Brien]

He's fascinating. Well, my show here in the States began in September of 1993, and a reporter asked me, who would your favorite comedy guest be? And I said Richard Nixon. Because Richard Nixon was still alive. He was the face of comedy for about a good 12 years in our country. All comedy comedians were obsessed with him. He was a very fun guy to have sport with. And, I mean, he obsessed every comedy writer for a huge chunk of modern American history. So I wanted to talk to Richard Nixon, and then he passed away. I believe I started in September. I think he died in maybe March. And I thought, there goes my chance.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Do you know what AI? They can bring back some kind of Nixon avatar sweating aggressively at you.

[Conan O'Brien]

Nathan does appear on this podcast many times. I morph into into Nixon, even when he's not appropriate. And it's a very cartoonish over the top.

[Tom Holland]

We went to Disneyland and they've got an animatronic version. We've got a Lincoln and Disney. So I'd have thought that Nixon would.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Be an animatronic on the list, like kind of walking.

[Conan O'Brien]

Nixon himself was an animatronic. Nixon there may not have ever been. I mean, we love him as well.

[Tom Holland]

We're very keen on inappropriate footwear. People wearing the wrong shoes at the wrong time. And Nixon was brilliant at that. Cause he. What was it he wore?

[Conan O'Brien]

Black shoes on the beach. Black shoes on the beach. Yeah. Black shoes on the beach. Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

And we like that in a man.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Yeah, Promote that in a man.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay, as a little tidbit, and I'm gonna brag here for a moment, one of Nixon's biographers who knew him is a woman named Monica Crowley, who's written a lot about Nixon in winter, late in his career. She told me that Nixon, at the very end of his life, was flipping around. He was interested in television. He liked to watch television. And I premiere and he watched our first episode. And then she said that he liked it and told her, I like it. It's madcap. It's madcap. And I thought, I love that, Nixon. Now, I want Monica Crowley to write that down so that it's part of the official record. But she told me that he watched it probably with his shoes on over his pajamas and watched it at 12:30 at night here in America and said, I like it. It's madcap.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Yeah, but he would say it without smiling, wouldn't he?

[Conan O'Brien]

No, he would.

[Dominic Sambrook]

There'd be no flicker of amusement on his face.

[Tom Holland]

So basically you had six months where you could have leveraged that.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, I think. Yeah, I. Well, first of all, very quickly, critics turned on me, and Nixon's advisors probably would have said, well, no, his advisors were famously terrible. They would have said. They would have said, double down, double down. You should, you should break into the DNC for. For no reason at all and pay the burglars out of your own pocket. And you should immediately go on Conan o' Brien's late night show. So Admiral Lord Nelson for both of you.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah, I think so.

[Dominic Sambrook]

You've got to throw in somebody ancient there, Tom. They.

[Tom Holland]

No. Cause people in antiquity are terrifying and terrible. I mean, they're astonishing. I think, almost without exception. Yes.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, I think back then your average person was grabbing someone who walked by their house and thrusting them over a large sharpened stick, you know, and impaling them.

[Tom Holland]

There's quite a lot of that going on. Yeah, I think that they. The further back in time you go, the harder it is to relate to people because they are so different. I mean, think of someone like Alexander or Julius Caesar. They are terrifying because they move to kind of moral rhythms that are very, very strange and remote to us. So I can't kind of love any of them or admire them. So I think it has to be kind of more recent because then you can understand them.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, my all time favorite is Lincoln, Abraham Lincoln, because he's the one figure that is more impressive. The more I learn about him, the more I think he's. I think he might be one of our greatest authors, also one of our greatest humanitarians and an incredible statesman and funny.

[Tom Holland]

And what's your take on his wife? Yeah, because we had a disagreement about this.

[Dominic Sambrook]

We got into trouble. I got into trouble saying she was a monster.

[Conan O'Brien]

I don't think that's right. I think that's too simple. I think it's too simple to say she's a monster. I think she was unwell.

[Tom Holland]

Listen and learn.

[Dominic Sambrook]

I'm literally never coming on this.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, you weren't coming again anyway. You said that before we even started. I'll do this once my people tell me I have to do it right.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Exactly. I didn't realize you were listening to that conversation.

[Tom Holland]

Let's hear about what. Mary Lincoln is not a monster, Domino.

[Conan O'Brien]

She is. She is crucial, I think, to Lincoln's rise. She comes from a connected family. She's very ambitious on his behalf. My wife, who's also a massive fan of both you gentlemen, massive fan and regular listener. She did a great podcast called Significant Others and she talked about Mary Lincoln and Abraham Lincoln and talked about the complexities of what's good about Mary Lincoln. But her podcast and the research was that she did a lot for him. She was very ambitious on his behalf. In some ways she was a good partner. She was highly flawed. But I think to dismiss her as a monster isn't fair.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Did she not, though steal all the spoons in the warehouse when she left?

[Conan O'Brien]

Who hasn't done that?

[Dominic Sambrook]

I've never.

[Conan O'Brien]

I've been to the White House three times.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Did you steal a spoon?

[Conan O'Brien]

How many did you steal? I stole a flat screen television. I need spoons. I don't need a fucking spoon. Didn't do that. Who needs a spoon if you're going to go, go big? I said, yeah. So, yeah, I. Yeah, but she stole.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Something like 6,000 spoons or whatever.

[Conan O'Brien]

Come on, get over it. And nothing, you know, what did Margaret Thatcher take when she left power? I do have a question. I do have a question. This is a serious question that has confused me somewhat over time. I sometimes have a take on a British figure that's completely out of step with what British people think of that figure.

[Tom Holland]

So, like who?

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, Margaret Thatcher's one. Because I feel that you almost can't. I've been in circles where you almost can't bring her up.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Oh, yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

And she has been canceled and I've seen books of great women in history and Margaret Thatcher isn't even in there and she's this highly significant. And I understand that there's complexities there and there are things that she did. But interesting to me that she isn't held in more esteem.

[Tom Holland]

Dominic has written a 7,000 page book on her.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, I didn't know that.

[Tom Holland]

Is absolutely the man to take this on.

[Conan O'Brien]

Do you think, am I correct that I've been around Brits And I've said, what do you guys prefer? Brits? Limeys? What do you like?

[Dominic Sambrook]

I think we're Englishman. Yeah. Englishmen. Officers and gentlemen.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay. Admiral.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

Lord Commander.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Just sir is fine.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay. Sir. Your Highness is. I have noticed that you have to have her as part of the conversation and it's as if she didn't exist. And I. That doesn't feel right to me. Am I correct about that?

[Dominic Sambrook]

I think kind of liberal opinion, for want of a better word or better phrase, still holds her in very low regard because she was a, you know, she was a right of center politician. A lot of people suffered under Thatcher government, kind of deindustrialization.

[David Melmid]

Yes.

[Dominic Sambrook]

She was a very, very strident and partisan politician. You know, you were, you were one of hers or you were one of the opposition. And she drew the battle lines very clearly. So it's understandable why people hate her.

[Tom Holland]

Right.

[Dominic Sambrook]

I completely get that. I mean, I'm sure Tom would probably agree with me on this. She's an incredibly impressive person. So if you look at photographs of her government, she's often in the room with 40 men and she's the only woman. And she's made her own way. She's fought her way up the ladder. She's incredibly well prepared because she thinks she has to work harder than any man because she thinks she'll be dismissed at any moment and she feels she has to become harder than hard to prove that she's not a soft and sensitive woman. All of which maybe makes her quite unlikable. I. I think she probably wouldn't have got on with us because she had very little sense of humor and she was harsh, you know, hard company. Difficult company.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Dominic Sambrook]

But she is a. I mean, certainly compared with Britain's recent Prime ministers.

[Tom Holland]

So that I think. I think that there's a kind of kaleidoscopic quality to people's reputations in history. And I think the fact that. How long is she. 10 years. She was prime minister for 10 years.

[Dominic Sambrook]

11 years.

[Tom Holland]

And basically we, you know, we current prime ministers last about a week.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. They're like fruit flies. They have the same life expectancy and same intellect.

[Tom Holland]

They're so terrible.

[Conan O'Brien]

They're nourished on the blood of others. Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

They are so terrible that I think her reputation can only improve by comparison.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Yeah. I mean, the comparison between her and Liz Truss, Keir, Starmer. I mean, Rishi's. Not that.

[Tom Holland]

I mean, names that no one listening will ever hear of, any of them.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. They just enter the front of Downing street and they go out the back without breaking stride. Yeah, I, I'm also a big churchophile. I really love Churchill and I know that I've talked to British people who, oh, well, he behaved poorly here, he behaved poorly there. There's a lot of it that maybe doesn't age well. And sometimes I am impatient. I think, oh, my God, this was the perfect person at the perfect time with the perfect wit and the perfect eloquence. That alone should protect him. I mean, am I wrong?

[Tom Holland]

He got one massive thing right.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes.

[Tom Holland]

And I think essentially that cancels everything he got wrong.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Also, I mean, you've got to give a massive.

[Conan O'Brien]

And when you say one massive thing, right. Just for anyone who's, you know, he. People were trying to appease Hitler. Appease Hitler. Appease Hitler. And he said enough of.

[Tom Holland]

Yes, he's right about that. But I think specifically it's the moment when the Nazis are on the French coast. There's a serious prospect that the British government may open negotiations with Hitler. And had that happened, then the history of Europe and of the world would have been radically different. That it doesn't happen is massively damaging.

[Conan O'Brien]

Churchill, because of one man who said no.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Right. I mean, this is amazing.

[Tom Holland]

Pinch point.

[Dominic Sambrook]

It's an amazing story about him addressing his MPs and saying to them, if this long island story of ours is to end, let it end only when we are choking in our own blood on the ground. And that kind of stirring stuff. I mean, nobody says that outside movies. He says that he galvanizes the English language, the English people.

[Conan O'Brien]

I have a theory that again, I'm just gonna go with Brits because I don't know what to say that the British people are famously afraid of or wary of puffed up language or. I know it's certainly true of the Celts. The minute someone starts to say everyone is going, oh, get over yourselves. That all the rhetoric I love of Churchill's sometimes is slightly embarrassing.

[Tom Holland]

Well, the thing is, he speaks like that from about the age of four.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

And it makes him a very. A very comical figure. So what is it? The age of 4?

[Dominic Sambrook]

10.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, I know he's a school at 4 saying, anyone who will not give that toy and put it back in my pram will choke on their own blood. But the thing is, he's.

[Tom Holland]

I mean, he. At the age of 10 or something, when he's at school, he's writing essays about how he is going to save Britain from foreign invasion.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Yeah.

[Tom Holland]

And he, in a sense, you know, his whole Life has been preparation for 1940, when. When he.

[Dominic Sambrook]

And the other thing.

[Tom Holland]

He stands alone.

[Dominic Sambrook]

He got loads wrong. He made loads of terrible, terrible mistakes. And some of his, you know, more intemperate statements don't stand up very well today to our scrutiny. But when you look at his life, he had an amazing life.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, my God. He is Zelig. I mean, the Woody Allen movie Zelig, where he's in every Africa and he.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Escapes from a bur. Prisoner war camp. He's in Cuba when the Americans are fighting in Cuba. He's fighting in India.

[Conan O'Brien]

He's hit by a cab in New York city in the 1930s.

[Dominic Sambrook]

These crazy.

[Conan O'Brien]

He's everywhere.

[Dominic Sambrook]

This extraordinary life. Plus, he is such a likable personality. He's so ebullient. He's such fun. He's a great laugh. If he was sitting next to you at dinner, you know, you wouldn't get a word in edgeways.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, I would. But he'd be. You don't know who you're messing with.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Hey, Winston.

[Conan O'Brien]

Ooh. Let this Irish idiot in here. When I visited, I have my frequent stops when I'm in London. Imperial War Museum. I always have to go. I witnessed an argument. This is in the late 80s. I was at the Imperial War Museum, and I witnessed. There was a British half track there. And two old German men were saying this was not the best design. And two British guys said, well, it was bloody well good enough, wasn't it? And they got into it. And I thought, what was the accent.

[Dominic Sambrook]

That that British person had?

[Conan O'Brien]

I failed, chap. Dick Van Dyke taught me how to talk to you guys. Blimey. Hello, guvnor. I did that to Hugh Laurie's face once, and I think he struck me, but it's all a blur now.

[Tom Holland]

We have an episode on Mary Poppins coming up.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, really? Yeah, we do. Terrific. Well, Dave had Dick Van Tyke.

[Tom Holland]

He was taught his Courtney accent by an Irishman who'd been appointed by Walt Disney.

[Conan O'Brien]

It was the ultimate act of the IRA Mr. Sabotage.

[Dominic Sambrook]

It explains a lot.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. Yeah. He has apologized many times. I had him on the show and I asked him about it, and he said, I'm sorry. That's what I was taught. It's terrible. But it wasn't cool. To his credit, he's. He's Dick Van Dyke. He's a national treasure for us. And. And he apologized. But what were we talking about? I've drifted. Imperial War Museum.

[Tom Holland]

Oh, yes.

[Conan O'Brien]

And then Chartwell. I went to Chartwell, which I.

[Tom Holland]

That is great.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I just looking at the Chartwell's, the country estate that Churchill bought when he didn't have the money to buy it. And he was making, I mean, to his credit, earning his living, writing articles and probably spending money he didn't have. But he bought Chartwell. And there are a few homes that tell you who the person is. Most of them have been redone. The person isn't really there. My two favorites are Chartwell and Teddy Roosevelt's house, Sagamore Hill and Oyster Bay.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Never been there.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, you have to go because Teddy Roosevelt's there. They didn't touch it. His wife kept it exactly the same. When she passed, it became a museum. Nothing's been changed. It's filled with stuffed heads and bombast and hyperactivity.

[Tom Holland]

And they're quite similar, I think. Yeah, they Rosevelt.

[Conan O'Brien]

They're very similar.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Do you know who TR's hero was?

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, Kipling. Who?

[Dominic Sambrook]

Oliver Cromwell.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, that's Oliver Cromwell, yes, his hero.

[Dominic Sambrook]

One of my heroes, actually. Conan.

[Conan O'Brien]

Sorry, not so much of the British, I mean, of the Irish. My grandmother lived with us growing and she had been born in 1890. And the movie Cromwell was on in her room on the side.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Richard Harris film Richard Harris.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I'm crossing her room and the door is slightly ajar and the flickering image, she's watching it and it's a scene where the British are under Cromwell or something's going on, I can't remember, but it was something about the Irish. And my grandmother's watching and she just said, the bastards.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah, well, you know, we grew up on these children's books. They're called Ladybird books, and they were books about great lives. So there was. Oliver Cromwell was one of them. And it has kind of famous summing up and it says, Oliver Cromwell, bracket, except in Ireland, was a kindly man.

[Conan O'Brien]

Colonel o', Brien, except for to his staff and friends, was a kindly man.

[Tom Holland]

Which I think sums up perhaps.

[Dominic Sambrook]

What was that say from Cromwell? He was robust in Ireland. He was robust.

[Conan O'Brien]

Robust, yeah.

[Tom Holland]

Robust is a very useful word on.

[Dominic Sambrook]

The podcast, but he had sometimes pungent views.

[Tom Holland]

Pungent and robust. They carry a lot of weight.

[Conan O'Brien]

You know, the larger to Google Earth out of this, all these little areas for a second. One of the things that sustains me, and I know that you have a lot of young listeners, which I love because the role that history plays for me in my life, my knowledge of history and my enthusiasm for it is it often reminds me that we've been here before and that the history of mankind is a lot of Things constantly going wrong and, you know, good people in the mix trying to right the ship. But I get a lot of satisfaction out of all the things that are happening today that can seem so dire. And, of course, unlike anyone that you're talking about in your podcast, we're being bombarded with bad news constantly through this new technology. A lot of young people just think, well, this is the end of the world. And I try and remind them, and.

[Tom Holland]

Things have been worse.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, no. But I keep telling them, do you think 1914 was great? How about 1861 in the States? I mean, even in our Recent history, the 60s was a dreadful decade. 70s, 80s. I mean, it's hard to locate a time when we all didn't think. When I was at university, as you call it, when I was in college, we all thought, reagan is going to blow up the world. And this is the late for the.

[Tom Holland]

First two world wars, early for the third.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, exactly.

[David Melmid]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, well, well, there we go.

[Tom Holland]

Oh, there goes Moscow.

[Dominic Sambrook]

There it goes.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, but I mean. And I'm just constantly reminded that we had a moment of optimism when the Berlin Wall fell, which quickly turned to cynicism. And then things seem to have just gotten much worse in Russia, and we see what's happening in the world, and I think, well, this is the way it's been. It's always been this way.

[Dominic Sambrook]

So I would say a couple of things. One is that people always behave badly. History keeps happening, and people will continue doing bad things because human nature doesn't change. And yet most people alive today live longer, healthier, more comfortable, warmer. As in shielded from cold lives with more opportunities, the broader cultural horizons, all of that kind of thing. That's not to be complacent, but you'd rather be here than at any previous point in history.

[Tom Holland]

And the other thing is dentistry, which is always mentioned, and antibiotics.

[Conan O'Brien]

Antibiotics. My father was a microbiologist and studied antibiotics his entire life. Never went to the dentist, though. Face of. Just broken tombstones in his mouth.

[Tom Holland]

Oh, British.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Like George Washington. Like George Washington. He walked around with other people's teeth in his mouth.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's right.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Paul from Washington.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's right.

[Dominic Sambrook]

We knew he was a bad man, but that was the confirmed.

[Conan O'Brien]

Had to eat, you know, he. He ate because of his bad, bad teeth. Can I tell you?

[Dominic Sambrook]

Go on.

[Conan O'Brien]

He would have tripe. Tripe was all he would do, which is cow, really, getting down in cow's stomach, mashed up and then boiled. And this, this man, who might be the greatest American of all time, through his rotted jaw would suck tripe into his mouth.

[Dominic Sambrook]

That makes me feel so happy.

[Tom Holland]

You know, the worst teeth. The worst teeth.

[Conan O'Brien]

Won't you forgive us?

[Tom Holland]

No. Ramesses the Great, the pharaoh, they found his, his mummy and he'd lived to about 97 and they inspected his jaw and because the sand, you know, it's Egypt, so sand gets into the bread. 90 odd years of chewing on bread had worn down the teeth, had worn down the gums, had exposed the nerves. He was pharaoh. He was, you know, one of the greatest figures of ancient history. His, I mean, every minute would have been excruciating agony. There was nothing that he could do about it. So I, I, you know, just say that to cheer people up who may be depressed. You think you're doom scrolling?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, exactly. You're thinking about what's happening right now in global warming. Remember there's not sand in your bread. Yeah, exactly.

[Tom Holland]

You know, and there's been. The world has been convulsed by terrible examples of climate change before. Yeah. Say the 6th century AD, possibly the worst year in human history. There's a kind of great climactic event. The world cools, the crops fail, there's plague, there's war, everything collapses. And I again offer that as a reassurance that things may seem bad now, but honestly they have been so much worse.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. And I think I go back to that all the time is there's also a. This is not just a uniquely American thing, but it's very popular in our politics too. Can't we return to that golden old time? And as a, not a historian like you gentlemen, as an amateur, I always say, tell me when that was right.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Super existent.

[Conan O'Brien]

What is this golden time? And you know, they'll try and say things like, well, you know, in the 1890s, you know, the thing that's always recreated when someone opens an ice cream shop and people have arm garters and wax mustaches and people. And I think, no, that was no good.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Lynching.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, no, no, I mean, exactly. It's, there is no golden past. And I think that's one of the things that sustains me these days is I listen to your podcast and you tell these great stories and I love the stories and I learned so much. But it informs how I live today. It informs how I read the news, it informs how I take what's coming. And I'm usually a little, I think calmer. And I work with a lot of young people who are convinced. I remember during COVID someone who was waiting on me in a Restaurant telling me she was very young, she was about 20. And she said, she's very sad. And I said, why? And she said, I'll never see a concert again. I'll never see a live concert again because that's over now because of COVID And I said, no, no, no. We were here in 1919. We've been here a bunch of times before. These happen and they go away and we move on. You're going to see so many concerts and so many of them are going to be terrible.

[Tom Holland]

You'll be dreaming of lockdown.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah. I have to ask you, I have not listened to your Rolling Stone podcasts, your Satanic Majesties podcasts, Beatles or Stones? I just have to ask for me.

[Tom Holland]

Beatles. 100%, yes.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Stones. Okay.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, I have to tell you, Dominic, you're wrong. You're wrong.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Wrong about.

[Tom Holland]

Wrong about.

[David Melmid]

Yeah.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Mary Lincoln's.

[Tom Holland]

Mary Lincoln.

[Conan O'Brien]

And wrong about. Look, I love them, an amazing three chord band, but.

[Dominic Sambrook]

You're not a bit bored of the Beatles?

[Conan O'Brien]

A bit.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Ubiquitous.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's impossible. It's impossible. And look, is it their fault that their stuff is. You're penalizing them for their band being too good. Incredible. Well, wrong again. And I should tell you, Mary Lincoln played with the Stones for a while, so you should really hit the Stones.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Yeah, she just wanted Peter, Paul and Mary. Right?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, she was with Peter, Paul and Mary. Yes. Then she left, replaced Bill Wyman for a little while as bass player. And then Mick got jealous. She was getting all the attention. Yeah, that was. I have to ask you, on a personal note, this thing is blown up. You started as a lark, you were having fun, and now it's all this.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Yeah. Mental.

[Conan O'Brien]

Are you enjoying? I mean, Tom Hanks is a huge fan. Will come on the podcast. I've not been invited. Listen, I understand. I understand my place in the hierarchy. I have a small cameo in Saving Private Ryan. I'm shot. I'm the ninth guy to be shot. Just coming right off the boat.

[Tom Holland]

What would you like to talk about?

[Conan O'Brien]

We'd pick a topic. You could pick a topic with me and I would come to London. Where do you do it? Do you do it in London? No, no, no. I want to be there in person. Or do you guys. Are you together when you do that?

[Dominic Sambrook]

No, we hate each other.

[David Melmid]

No.

[Tom Holland]

God, I mean, that would be terrible.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Yeah. No, never. This is the first time we've been together for about four years.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay.

[Dominic Sambrook]

It's very unpleasant.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, I'd like to be with one of you live, so we. I would like to be at one of your. I'm imagining a grand estate. And I would like to be with one of you in person, and I would like to make the other jealous.

[Dominic Sambrook]

And the bunnies.

[Conan O'Brien]

Maybe we could.

[Tom Holland]

Maybe we could talk about why Mary Lincoln was a goodie or why the Beatles are brilliant.

[Conan O'Brien]

I could do the Beatles in a second.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Let's do it.

[Tom Holland]

Let's do the first.

[Conan O'Brien]

I mean. I mean, I would happily join you guys anytime. This has been a thrill for me, and I got to talk about about 1/70 of the things that I would love to talk to you about. But so. So it goes. We'll leave that for another time. If you're not listening to the Rest Is History with Tom and Dominic, you're a fool. And you know what? You don't even have to be a history buff. They're stories, and they're the best stories that ever were, and they're told by two great storytellers. And so the Rest is history. Please give it a listen. And thank you two both very much for being here. Thank you, Joy.

[David Melmid]

Thank you. It's here.

[Conan O'Brien]

The Naked Gun is now streaming on Paramount. So excited about this. Love the Naked Gun franchise. You know what? There's a lot of question. Can Liam Neeson do it? Can he take on the mantle of this incredible franchise? And the reviews are in. People think it's hilarious. It's a great film. I've seen it twice.

[Dominic Sambrook]

It's awesome.

[Conan O'Brien]

Finally, the world gets Liam Neeson as Frank Drebin Jr. Yes, the son of Lieutenant Drebin. Neeson is joined by Paul Walter Hauser, Pamela Anderson, Liza Koshy, Danny Houston, even WWE's Cody Rhodes. And the film's directed by Akiva Schaeffer, who's very talented. Fans are already calling the Naked Gun the funniest movie of the year. Now you can watch it at home, so you don't miss a single joke. Get your popcorn. What? The Naked Gun is now streaming on Paramount. Uncrustables are the best part of this sandwich. I mean, we've been thinking that. White as hell. Say it, right, Sona? Yeah. Like, who needs a crust? You've been saying that since the day I met you 15 years ago. Sona, you said, who needs the crust? And I said, first of all, my name's Conan, you know? Anyway, it's the perfect grab and go for all of life's moments with unbeatable soft bread and a variety of flavors like, well, peanut butter and grape jelly, peanut butter and strawberry jam. Hello. Peanut butter and Raspberry spread and so much more. No mess, no prep. Just thaw and eat. Yep. Get them in the freezer aisle today. We have something very important to discuss right now. Is it important? It's very important. So if you'd even question me, is. It's abhorrent to me. Recently, we had a discussion about singing popular songs on the podcast. Is that a copyright infringement? Do we have to then pay off these artists, or are we allowed to sing a popular ditty? Do we have the freedom to do that? And we realize there's one person we need to talk to.

[David Melmid]

Yep.

[Conan O'Brien]

He is one of the loyal troops here in the Team Coco Army. He's a magnificent lawyer despite never having practiced law or graduated from law school. He's a Jose Arroyo. But no one pretends to be a lawyer better than David Melmid. And, David, thank you very much for being here. And I also want to say people really like David Melmut.

[David Melmid]

Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

I mean, everyone's just talking about. We're all big fans. You know, I'm a controversial figure here in the building. But you are universally very well liked.

[Tom Holland]

Yeah.

[David Melmid]

Thank you.

[Conan O'Brien]

Appreciate that. And I thank you. You do terrific work for us in your capacity as a fake lawyer. So, David, let's get into it. The question is, can I sing songs on the podcast? Can Sona sing songs on the podcast? And Matt Gourley, is he allowed to break out into a tune every now and then? What's the answer?

[David Melmid]

I'm gonna give you a lawyer answer to that. The answer is maybe. The answer is maybe.

[Conan O'Brien]

Maybe you're rotating in your chair a lot nervously.

[David Melmid]

Yes, maybe.

[Conan O'Brien]

I don't really want to know exactly how you got engrossed.

[David Melmid]

We could actually use that as an example right there. Okay, That's a perfect example, right? Yes. Which song was that?

[Conan O'Brien]

Because the way you were singing it was just awful. What song was it?

[Matt Gourley]

That's the Oasis song, Live Forever.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, okay. Got it. Terrific.

[David Melmid]

So that's a perfect example right there. Thank you. Okay. I think there's a way to approach these. I think music is probably one of the most controversial sort of topics in all of Clearance. Right. I think music, particularly with you, Conan, your love of music and sort of the idea of music now in podcasts has become a hot, certainly topic within the legal community. And so now that we have an example, I think the first thing.

[Conan O'Brien]

If you don't get more interesting faster, I'm gonna kill you.

[David Melmid]

Okay.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's that interesting. Okay. I mean, it's that simple. Look at all these notes.

[Tom Holland]

You have.

[Conan O'Brien]

I mean, look at my notes. You're not talking to the Supreme Court.

[David Melmid]

Yes, I am.

[Conan O'Brien]

Just us. Yes, I am. He is the most professional person in.

[Dominic Sambrook]

This room right now.

[Conan O'Brien]

I know, but that was just dreadful. I know.

[Dominic Sambrook]

What?

[Matt Gourley]

He let the men talk.

[Conan O'Brien]

I think I did. And it was awful.

[David Melmid]

Yes.

[Conan O'Brien]

It was the worst thing that ever happened to me. I'm sorry. David, continue. And in no way, in no way. In no way feel constrained by what I've said or intimidated. I'm not, as your employer. Continue doing that awful thing you were just doing.

[David Melmid]

Exactly. This is. Okay, so there's a step approach to that. I think the first thing we ask is what is the intended use of what you are trying to do? And I think why I ask that is a lot of times I hear samples and they're really terrible. I think when I actually ask the person, what do you want to use it for? They hear themselves say it and say, you know what, we're good. We're actually not going to use that. Once we get to step two, say, you know what? We want to do that, then we get to, where do you want to use it? Where do you want to distribute it? And so in that case, just. I'm putting you on the spot. Corly, where would you want to use that within.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, I think we're talking about this podcast. Okay, so this is the. I think what we're all talking about is the same thing, which is, okay, we're having that podcast and we're talking and someone brings up Robert Palmer and Sona says, wait, which one is he? Cause she's younger. And I go, murders were facial addicted to. He's so fine. There's no telling where the money went. And what do you do now? It comes across your desk.

[David Melmid]

Yes, it does.

[Conan O'Brien]

I don't think you have a desk. I do, but you just sit in the corner.

[David Melmid]

You sit in the corner. You do sit in the corner.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes, but when you get a real law degree, you get a real death.

[David Melmid]

Thank you.

[Conan O'Brien]

But, David, that's the example.

[David Melmid]

That's a great example.

[Conan O'Brien]

They come to you and they say, Conan o' Brien joined in by Matt Goerley, Robert Palma Song we just did it. Do you cut it out or do you let us do it?

[David Melmid]

I say again, maybe I would say, let's try to get permission to do that. I think that is the goal here, is to say, do we need permission to do that? So that, again, is a difficult thing because you could say, look, we need to release this episode next week. How Are we supposed to go to the record label? Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

Robert Palmer's gone. He has tragically passed.

[David Melmid]

Yes, he has. And he has an estate that's very protective of his musical work.

[Conan O'Brien]

And then does someone get them a sample of us singing it and they listen to it?

[David Melmid]

We actually would provide the sample. Because you're recording this, right? We're recording this.

[Conan O'Brien]

And we bring it to that. This is awful.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Okay.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, again, I mean, this whole segment is a treat.

[David Melmid]

I think it's fantastic, actually. I think this is very helpful. Fantastic. So we bring that sample to the record label and say, hey, look, Conan o', Brien, Matt Gorley, Sona would love to use this sample on. I'm.

[Dominic Sambrook]

Okay. You could leave me at it.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay. Please.

[David Melmid]

Conan o'.

[Conan O'Brien]

Brien. She is tone deaf. Yeah. You don't have to lump me in.

[David Melmid]

On the Robert Palmer one.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes. Now, here's my question. Would you say this promotes Robert Palmer's discography?

[Matt Gourley]

This promotes Paradigm.

[Conan O'Brien]

It doesn't. It makes you think, oh, I did love that song. I don't love the way they're doing it, but I do love that song. And I' like to go out and immediately on Spotify, get the complete Robert Palmer collection.

[David Melmid]

You would certainly use that argument in a negotiation for fee.

[Tom Holland]

Right?

[Conan O'Brien]

This is ridiculous. I'm just. You know, the thing is, I'm not a musician who's playing the song. I'm just saying she's so fine, there's no telling where the money went. And then suddenly, a highly paid pseudo lawyer.

[David Melmid]

Yes.

[Conan O'Brien]

Who's suspiciously tan all the time. I don't know how you are. You come in in the mid of winter, and you've got the deepest bronze tan. Do you use a tanning line?

[David Melmid]

I do not. And you asked me that.

[Matt Gourley]

Natural. He's a handsome guy.

[Conan O'Brien]

You are incredibly handsome.

[David Melmid]

Thank you. Well, you asked me that two years ago.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, I know you did, but it's the last time we spoke.

[David Melmid]

That is true. Until today.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[David Melmid]

You, Conan.

[Conan O'Brien]

You. You.

[David Melmid]

You came to my corner. Yep. And you said, do you tan? Do you tan? I would love that. Tan. Yeah. And I said, I don't. I actually get.

[Conan O'Brien]

I get outside.

[David Melmid]

I have a. You know, glowing.

[Conan O'Brien]

You have an incredible glow.

[David Melmid]

Thank you.

[Conan O'Brien]

What do you attribute that to? Is it your lineage?

[Matt Gourley]

Are you pregnant?

[Conan O'Brien]

How is this pertinent to the. Okay, we're getting to it in a second.

[David Melmid]

This is important.

[Conan O'Brien]

What are you, a lawyer? Go ahead.

[David Melmid]

What was your question? Sorry.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes, but, David, explain. Explain this golden hue you have.

[David Melmid]

I think genetics. I think my. I have parents. In their 80s that look like they're in their 60s. So that's the first.

[Conan O'Brien]

But what is it? What is your genetic makeup? I know that's probably an incorrect question to ask these days, but what are your genetics? I must know.

[David Melmid]

I would say there is probably a sort of Middle Eastern, you know, beautiful skin, absolutely gorgeous. But you.

[Matt Gourley]

You're forgetting that he has these beautiful eyes, too.

[David Melmid]

The hazel eye.

[Conan O'Brien]

Something else. Listen, you have salt and pepper hair, which is to die for. I mean, I'm walking around with this clown dessert on my head, and I look at you and I'm like, he may not be a real lawyer. He may be the only thing we could afford, but gotta do him in a Mississippi second.

[Matt Gourley]

What?

[Conan O'Brien]

He's your lawyer? He is your lawyer? Yeah. Okay. All I'm saying is you can't ask about genetics and you can't say, I wanna do you to the lawyer. Well, listen, actually, out of time. I'm glad we covered all the L questions to the music. I'm just gonna say one thing. He's so fine, there's no telling where the money went. Listen, so back to the other. The initial point of this whole thing, which is. You're very good looking. Thank you. Wait, that wasn't it. Back to the real point, David, which is you're saying that anytime we hum any ditty, you have to get on the phone and try to buy the right rights from some monsters. Can I add, last Conan, you argued that if you hummed. The worse you hummed it, the more rights we would have, Right? Like if you were off with your.

[Tom Holland]

With the melody or the tone, then.

[Conan O'Brien]

We would be able to use it. I would say, for example, famously litigious Led Zeppelin. No one gets to do Led Zeppelin stuff. But if I sing it and it's wrong, but everyone knows what I'm doing, do we still have to pay?

[David Melmid]

Because. Could you could.

[Matt Gourley]

You'd have to get the lyrics and the melody wrong, though, right?

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, I could do the whole thing. Now there's a lady who knows.

[Tom Holland]

Sure.

[Dominic Sambrook]

That's it.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's. That's. Those speakers are bows. Oh, boy. She's trying. Staircase to Nirvana. Nirvana. Now that. Now would I have to pay for that? No way.

[David Melmid]

Well, I wouldn't say no way.

[Conan O'Brien]

Why? You say maybe.

[David Melmid]

I would say maybe and I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. If you are in.

[Conan O'Brien]

If you were led.

[David Melmid]

No, I'll tell you why.

[Conan O'Brien]

The questions that you don't want to hear.

[David Melmid]

I don't think you want to hear.

[Conan O'Brien]

What the answer Go ahead.

[David Melmid]

In the most conservative way. Yes. Now, there are different exceptions. You can, for example, I think the use the fair use word de minimis. Use is used a ton. But you've already committed the copyright act, right? So when I have talked to you, Sona, about this plenty of times where. And I think I'm going to use Jeff Ross's name. He loves the word de minimis. It's just a little bit of use that a court would never say, you know, we're not going to litigate this. Go ahead and use it. Conan o'. Brien, he can do two, three seconds of that song. No, we're not. We're not going to even go there now.

[Tom Holland]

De minimis.

[Conan O'Brien]

Why does Jeff love de minimis? I haven't heard de minimis since the Latin teacher saw me without my pants on. That's what he said.

[David Melmid]

That's what he said. That's exactly what Jeff said.

[Conan O'Brien]

Pretty good, huh? Sona, look at her. Look at her, look at her.

[David Melmid]

That is what he said.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's not the maximus. A quick question. Should we do a two parter and continue talking? Yes, we should do a two parter because we're out of time. Okay. We are sitting here with our. He says he's a lawyer. We've seen no paperwork. David Melmid, impossibly good looking and beloved here on staff.

[David Melmid]

Very sweet. Thank you.

[Conan O'Brien]

Stay tuned for part two.

[Matt Gourley]

Conan o' Brien Needs a friend With Conan o', Brien, Sonam of Session and Matt Gourley Produced by me, Matt Gourley executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross and Nick Leow. Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer. Samples, engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Bautista and Brit Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign [e-mail] Conan and if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O' Brien needs a friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

[Conan O'Brien]

91 1, what's your emergency? Got tornadoes coming right at us. ABC Thursdays.

[Matt Gourley]

The 911 universe expands to Nashville.

[Conan O'Brien]

A fire out of that tornado two miles from executive producer Ryan Murphy. Get everyone you can and send them out here now. Chris o', Donnell, Jessica Capshaw, Kimberly Williams Paisley, Leanne Rimes. We are on the move the hell to save kid. 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays, 9.

[Dominic Sambrook]

8 Central on ABC and stream next day on Hulu.

[Conan O'Brien]

My big pet peeve, shoes that don't last. You know, I'm a large fellow, tall, giant feet plomper. When I put on some shoes and I'm wearing them around and then it starts to rain and they just fall apart. Cause they're made of oatmeal. I hate that. I like a shoe that lasts. Well, that's the promise of L.L. bean crafting boots built to last over a century.

[Tom Holland]

That's good.

[Conan O'Brien]

I want to live to be 150 and still be wearing the same boots I put on when I was born. Bean boots carry that tradition forward. Handcrafted In Maine since 1912, built for outdoors, they handle rain, mud, snow. With over a century of timeless design, they don't chase trends. Each pair becomes more personal, more distinctive and uniquely yours. L.L. bean boots are simply best worn. Find your [e-mail].